Of all the scenes in the Matrix, Cypher’s 30 pieces of silver moment here is the one that requires the most suspension of disbelief. Granted, it’s the Matrix, so you’re going in with a lot of suspended disbelief, and I understand Cypher’s Judas moment is central to the movie’s plot, but for as cerebral and philosophically rich as the Matrix is, this scene begs a lot of questions.
First we have to consider how long Cypher’s been cut away from the Matrix – 9 years. His experience of awakening, or something like it, we can presume was much like Neo’s. Shock, disbelief, denial, depression and finally acceptance. The experience Cypher and Neo, and anyone else so unplugged, would somewhat follow a predictable path, and thus the people doing the unplugging have pre-established programs to help those awakened adjust to a ‘real’ life.
What Cypher has here is 9 years of experiencing the harsh reality of the ‘real’. Although he understands it, he wants to forget it. He wants the comfort and bliss that being unconscious and ignorant in the Matrix makes possible for him.
The disbelief we have to suspend here is that the automatons of the Matrix will actually honor their end of the bargain and graciously wipe away all of his memories of being in the real world, to say nothing of actually improving Cypher’s ‘life’, such as it is, once he’s blissfully oblivious of the ‘real’. One would think that after 9 years of watching the Matrix ‘code and understanding how that system works Cypher wouldn’t have been so naive as to think that the system wouldn’t simply kill him once he’d betrayed Morpheus to it.
Still, the want for an escape from harsh realities is certainly an aspect of the human condition. We all have them and for the most part they’re harmless distractions to ease what we can bear of the real world. However, depending upon the personality and the severity of the need to escape, we can find ourselves preferring the fantasy to the reality. This is what can make harmless distractions into compulsive obsessions. It’s easy to on pick MMO games as an illustration, but the ‘addiction’ element of them stems from a personality that prefers the fantasy to the reality of its conditions.
Artificial Joy
Cypher is one such individual. He’s been rejected by Trinity – one of the only two women on his ship – in favor of the (at the time contextual) Alpha of a better looking and less creepy Neo. He resents Trinity’s attraction to Neo and spends his off hours watching encoded Matrix porn (not only a Buffer, but also an escape) and has a direct line to the only alcohol on the ship (courtesy of Dozer). Both of these classic male escapes, and many more just like them, are the characteristic remedy intended to cope with a reality that borders on insufferable. It’s almost prescient that this movie was written and released well before the rise of ubiquitous internet porn.
“If you entirely removed men’s access to porn and booze from society the male suicide rate would increase tenfold.”
I’ve read this comment on a couple of manosphere blogs in the past, and it’s almost a truism when you consider the most visceral of Buffers men turn to in order to escape their realities. Whether or not that guy is lost in his blue pill mental jail cell or he feels destitute in the perceived hopelessness of a cruel, but real, red pill existence he’s unprepared for, a man will always look for his escapes – and usually he gravitates, and fixates upon the ones that best satisfy what he’s unable to actualize.
On second thought, maybe we don’t need to suspend any disbelief with Cypher. Once we understand that condition and situation, and the abject lack of an ability to adress it, can drive someone to desperation, to hopeless suicide, acts of violence, to fanciful absorbing escapes, etc., ‘real’ naive beliefs and willful intellectual negligences seem of small consequence by comparison.
Reinsertion
I’m using Cypher’s character here today thanks to an enlightening post Athol Kay dropped last week. I disagree with his assertion here that red pill men need their occasional blue pill escapisms, but really only in how he’s applying terms. Athol sites this same video and character to illustrate how men have a desire (need?) to regress back into their former ‘magical thinking’ in order to cope with the reality our red pill, our Game awareness, our new ability to make sense of, and confront, our conditioning and the mechanics of fem-centrism now demands of Men.
My main objection is conflating to blue pill ignorance as some sort of escape that a Man might artificially enjoy from time to time in order to balance the harsh, and admittedly cruel truths his new awareness brings to him.
The trouble is, a lot of the Red Pill approach to life assumes a near telepathic assumption of negative intentions in others. Is it often right? Sure it is. But it’s almost impossible to live happily if you are endlessly paranoid and jaded about the intentions of everyone around you. If every woman is a hot mess of whorish desire and nothing else but a lying cunt of a hamster justifying her Alpha male sperm seeking… well it gets tiring being on edge after a while. Likewise every man is a third wheel seeking an opportunity and plots behind your back, pumping you for information about your woman, seeking to make a run into the endzone the moment you blink too slowly.
I read versions of this breakdown from a lot of guys who resist the idea of a red pill or a Game awareness altogether when it’s first presented to them and they acknowledge the basics of it. I addressed this in The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill and Bitter Misogynists, but the simple version is that what’s being outlined for red pill men seems too hopelessly nihilistic to actually be true. It sounds so paranoid and attention consuming that it can’t actually be.
From The Bitter Taste of the Red Pill:
The truth will set you free, but it doesn’t make truth hurt any less, nor does it make truth any prettier, and it certainly doesn’t absolve you of the responsibilities that truth requires. One of the biggest obstacles guys face in unplugging is accepting the hard truths that Game forces upon them. Among these is bearing the burden of realizing what you’ve been conditioned to believe for so long were comfortable ideals and loving expectations are really liabilities. Call them lies if you want, but there’s a certain hopeless nihilism that accompanies categorizing what really amounts to a system that you are now cut away from. It is not that you’re hopeless, it’s that you lack the insight at this point to see that you can create hope in a new system – one in which you have more direct control over.
Little Lies
The reason most men experience this initial hopelessness is because their only prior frame of reference for the way life works up until then has been that of a blue pill existence. It’s a very difficult aspect of killing the Beta and relearning how to exist in a red pill awareness – most men either reject it in wholesale denial or they turn paranoid and see the signs of the real intent or the underlying motivations for every action a woman or man presents them with as per Athol’s example.
The trouble this presents is one of switching a man’s paradigm from blue pill to red pill. Many transitioning guys tell me how impossible it is to “keep up the act” that they believe a red pill awareness requires of them. They believe so because their operative mindset, the direction they think will work best for them, are still based on the rules and mental framework of their former blue pill existence.
In the blue pill Matrix, everything was set for them, but with a red pill awareness comes the responsibility of doing things for themselves. They’re unprepared and cut away from a comforting system, but they don’t know what to do with that freedom. They understand that the blue pill is really a complex series of little lies meant to soften painful truths, and that they’d tell themselves more little lies to comfort themselves when those truths’ consequences hurt them, but now they know better. They have only themselves to blame for allowing the speeding, red pill train they knew was coming to flatten them. For one so unprepared it seems impossible to avoid.
Internalization
NEO: So what’re you trying to tell me, that I can dodge bullets?
MORPHEUS: No Neo, what I’m trying to tell you is that when you’re ready, you wont have to.
The problem lies in the assumption that Red Pill awareness is a consuming force in a Man’s life that demands his constant effort and vigilance to defend himself against.
Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective, but that doesn’t mean I suspect the female bank teller I’m making a deposit with is ready to rob me blind the moment I turn to walk out the door.
Neil Strauss hinted at ‘social robots’ in The Game; guys who were nothing but Game all the time and were unable to make real emotional connections. I would argue just the opposite. The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.
A healthy red pill awareness requires not only a Man’s reassessment and recreation of himself, but also that he abandon his former blue pill paradigm and learn to live in a new, positive, red pill paradigm. It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. You can allow that to consume you with a paranoia rooted in your former blue pill frame, or you can learn to create hope in a new system – one that you not only have more control over, but one that requires you to assume that control.
Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better. Easier is telling yourself that you actually need the little lies the blue pill provides. Easier is is thinking the blue pill is the sugar that helps the medicine go down. Better is recreating a new, positively masculine, direction for yourself based on the awareness and the opportunity that the red pill provides and requires of you.
*Before I finish here I want to say that this post was in no way a ‘take down’ of Athol’s article. I have nothing but respect for the guy and count him as a valuable peer and colleague. His work with MMSL is a much needed resource in the manosphere, and I can’t say enough good things about his efforts. I simple disagree with his take on a need for blue pill illusion.
Good post. Once you truly accept the world as it is and work on increasing your masculinity, you’ll find you’re a new man in a new world. It takes some time to search for what you really want out of life, rather than what you were previously told. Following the same desires with a new skill set, or not cultivating new desires at all, is an unhealthy way to live. Instead, start engaging the world on your terms, rather than theirs, and take what you want from it. When you’re able to do that, you’ll be on a good path… Read more »
I agree that going back to blue pill thinking to cope with the red pill isn’t the best way.
But instead of artificial joy…man does need real joy. Part of taking control of your masculinity is also using empathy as a way to control your emotions and spread joy out into the world. There are very few places in the world you will find joy…so when you do, treat it as the treasure it is.
My problem with Kay’s comments was his implicit assumption that most of what’s good in life is actually Blue Pill. Happiness derived from delusion is still delusion, and it will come crashing down on you just the same.
At the same time, the real world isn’t all bad. When you accept life’s realities, you’ll find that many of them suck, but not all of them.
[…] rationalmale.wordpress.com […]
I think the hardest part of unplugging is taking the ego plunge of saying “there are things about me that suck, and I need to change them.” Most men are just too invested in their egos, and they think their ideas are their identity. Once you realize that this isn’t true, and that ideas are like software – meaning you can update to a new program – you can wrap your ego around the idea of unplugging a little bit easier. Also once you realize that your blue pill mentality isn’t even your own idea, but a product of being… Read more »
Kill Cypher? Why would the agents do that to betray him? They can betray their end of the deal with a better idea: don’t erase his memory nor his Red Pill, take all his power and connections and make him a poor hobo holding signs…”We live in the Matrix”
interesting and timely. I just posted about this in “He’s Special”…. The blue-pill-ish comment I made to the girl I was banging: “I thought you were the one person who could make me believe in love again. I was wrong.” Only elicted a very negative backlash of how selfish and uncaring I am. Hmmmmm. I know I’m not. In fact I know that i struggle against beta-backsliding. So why would a girl make such a comment? Women lose attraction when they see a guy’s value go down. The reasons could be many. But in my pseudo-Blue-pill post, the very thought… Read more »
Doesn’t the larger issue go back to the difference between the PUA crowd and the MGTOW crowd? Usually when I experience frustration in one of those aspects, it’s a sign to me that I need to spend some time focusing on the other. Too much time spent in the gym and not giving a shit about women leaves me lonely and likely to jerk off. Hence, it’s time to ramp up my game. Too much time spent on game keeps me from enjoying time with the bro’s, on my motorcycle, training for Tough Mudder, etc. Althol’s MAP has been a… Read more »
Quite a change from your comments last April: “Athol Kay is just Susan Walsh with a penis. I’m glad he’s been able to parlay his blog into some revenue, but he still lives in girl-world and has since he was a 24 year old virgin. Just like Susan, he plays to the feel-good female emotive response while offering just enough of what he could stomach of the Red Pill ideology he learned from Roosh and Roissy to sound like a convincing teacher for married guys with sexually disinterested wives. I’d say he was a sell-out, only his whole personal journey… Read more »
@Daniel, yes this deserves some explanation. I’m afraid I was a bit too brash when I wrote than on Dal’s blog and I severely regret having done so. My opinion then was really based on what I knew of Athol’s first edition of his blog prior to his book, forum and his MAP. I’ll admit I went off half-cocked and had another manosphere friend tell me so, and that I really needed to check out what he’d been working on. I did so, and like I said I regretted that comment. I misjudged him, and sent him a private email… Read more »
@walawala: “Me: you were the first person i thought could make me believe in love again. I was wrong. Her: you are selfish, i needed you to comfort me and care for me . YOU LOVE YOURSELF. you don’t care about others.” She may have been reacting badly to having let you done. Some women really do care about pleasing their men. You gave her a compliment in that she almost made you believe in love and then with your second line you took that away from her. So she was childish and threw an insult back at you. Were… Read more »
Another really good post by Tomassi. This guy has been the leading voice in the manosphere for a while now. Keep up the good work.
Rollo: “The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.”
I remember writing in the fall about a purple pill: using red pill knowledge to make blue pill dreams come true. Why do you consider that dangerous and a constant effort? Won’t most men who turn red pill have to interact with the blue pill world in some way? What is your version of the red pill way out that is not MGTOW?
Who gives a fuck about awareness if you’re depressed. I’m so aware! fucking great
A healthy red pill awareness requires not only a Man’s reassessment and recreation of himself, but also that he abandon his former blue pill paradigm and learn to live in a new, positive, red pill paradigm. It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. You can allow that to consume you with a paranoia rooted in your former blue pill frame, or you can learn to create hope in a new system – one that you not only have more control over,… Read more »
[…] was incorrect, the past couple of days, and Rollo’s ArtificialJoy, make it clear to me what is happening. Applying my reading from long ago, in correlation with […]
My own awakening was more akin to scales falling from my eyes, and me saying “OK! Now THIS finally makes sense!” And because it made sense and explained so much of what had up to then seemed so unjust and wrong, I couldn’t stay angry about all the wasted years in beta-ville. Was it/is it difficult to apply and keep perfecting? Sure, it is. I have much to learn, and I’m older than most here so I won’t have as much time. But the gift of a new open-eyed worldview was such a joy and relief that the bitterness of… Read more »
Was watching the movie Pitch Black the other day and thought this quote fits with your article… Imam: Because you do not believe in God does not mean God does not believe in you. Riddick: Think someone could spend half their life in a slam with a horse bit in their mouth and not believe? Think he could start out in some liquor store trash bin with an umbilical cord wrapped around his neck and not believe? Got it all wrong, holy man. I absolutely believe in God… And I absolutely hate the fucker. It fits because if you substitute… Read more »
It was Donlak if I remember well who pointed aspect of reality which you mentioned.
You may be red pill man but you still live in blue pill World.
Either you will be above them all and alone forever or you will learn how to live in this environment being still red pill man.
There’s a bible verse that (I’m paraphrasing) says that for the believer, trying to return to his old ways will make him even more miserable than he was before he accepted Christ, and will ultimately destroy him.
So it is with the truths we learned and studied. You can’t go back. But even if you could, would you want to?
I can’t go back. I know too much now.
Ah yes, Cypher’s treachery. He’s not going back to the Matrix because he can’t stand the truth. He’s going back because the Truth has lousy food and is run by a man wearing silly glasses who speaks in riddles, and the only woman there has turned him down. The Matrix may not be “real”, but it’s a damn sight less dull and boring than the dutiful, threadbare, unplugged reality. Cypher has two functions. He’s a plot device, without which the Agents don’t get Morpheus and the movie stops half-way through. But he’s also there for the people who don’t buy… Read more »
I couldn’t go back either. When you know too much every time you are out in the world you see it and understand it. Eventually you don’t need to dodge bullets because you know what a bullet is. I read an article about the recent Tim Duncan divorce (NBA player for the Spurs). Everything he did before he got married to the chick reeked of oneitis and betatude (called her 5 times a day and professed his love for her constantly)…and this is a guy with millions of dollars and fame. He hired a private investigator to basically confirm she… Read more »
That’s interesting to learn about Duncan, he always struck me as super beta. It’s also interesting to note such a real life example that fabulous wealth and fame are not enough to save a dyed-in-the-wool beta. Yes, women want the provider, but they want the alpha more, even if the provider can provide the literal f-ing world to them.
Actually, lets compare NBA players.
Tim Duncan vs Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan:
Doted on a woman he loved for years.
Offered her fame & money.
Tried to appease her to keep her with him.
End result: She left him
Kobe Bryant:
Married a girl against his parents wishes
Offered her fame & money.
Cheated on her in a case that nearly had him legally called a rapist
End result: She stayed with him
EL-OH-EL.
I spend my time wondering what’s next?
Will the Manosphere continue to exist as an underground phenomenon or will it one day erupt like a volcano?
Life has taught me that everything has a balance. The FI is balanced by Red Pill Men; however, the balance is too far skewed.
Perhaps there is something else we are all unaware of waiting down the line. Time will tell I suppose.
“She stayed with him”
She’s filed for divorce when they hit the magical 10 year mark in California plus Kobe payed enough money to feed a small nation on a rock for her after his romp in Colorado…but from what I’ve read they are still sort of together and trying to make it work.
It seems like a daunting task when you first come to terms with it, but ultimately your awareness becomes an internalized part of who you are. And it can take years. It was helpful for me to apply the same reasoning I used to lose 45 lbs post-divorce to digesting the Red Pill (it’s not just about swallowing it): I didn’t pack on the pounds in just a few months, so it’s unreasonable to think that they’ll come off in a few months, it’s a long-haul kind of thing. Same with the Red Pill. It took a lot of indoctrination… Read more »
Happiness comes from a 700 pound deadlift and trophy bucks on the walls.
eh, I think MMSL is suffering from age induced testosterone drain as its been getting pretty blue lately.
I took the red pill five years ago, discovering it on my own, and was pleased to find the manosphere over the last couple of years documenting and communicating things I had to find out on my own after a bitter divorce and re-entering the dating market. I could never go back to a blue pill existence, but recently I broke down into a deep depression thinking of my years and years of blue pill existence. Severe one-itis as a young adult wasted one decade, then a second decade was wasted in a beta marriage. Add another two years of… Read more »
“Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.” If only wishing were reliable. Red Pill ennui can reach into other areas of life, too. Just today, a good buddy asked me if I want to go see [insert big-name musical act]’s show when they roll into town. I just can’t reconcile overpaying someone who’s already massively rich for the privilege of cheering for them so they can feel like the absolute King Alpha one more night. I would feel like a complete sucker the whole time. Maybe it has something to do with being a nonstarter musician myself, I… Read more »
eh, I think MMSL is suffering from age induced testosterone drain as its been getting pretty blue lately.
I second this. I respect Athol’s MAP and if I had a friend who was already married or about to get married and needed help I would definitely send them to MMSL (along with a healthy balance of other readings, re: dread, etc.), but otherwise, probably not as there have been more than a few times over the last six months or so in particular that I have shaken my head and muttered “HUS for men” after reading a post.
Maybe this is just sour grapes on my part, but I believe part of the problem with the MMLS forum is the encouragement and acceptance of women. Personally, we as men fuck up all the time by allowing women to join in the discussion of our shit. I don’t care how red pill they are – it’s a fact that they are different – and no matter how much acceptance they have of the “way the world really works” – they don’t know us, our feeling, our thoughts, or how to help. MMLS has more estrogen these days – which… Read more »
“If every woman is a hot mess of whorish desire and nothing else but a lying cunt of a hamster justifying her Alpha male sperm seeking.” The Manosphere has a long way to go and it can only doing by going backward to past wisdom. Men who see women as the above description see them as Whores. The opposite of that is the Madonna, which is how “Betas” (sic) see them. The Madonna and the Whore has bee noticed for, oh, a few thousand years, I suppose. When you can see a woman in her good and bad she is… Read more »
Athol has encouraged (read:demanded) his board to be estrogen friendly for two reasons: First:$$$. He needs his project to be successful to support his family. Women buy more books than men and thus pad his pockets more (remind anyone of churches and their direction?). Second: fear of feminist. He thinks having women actively support his site will protect it from crazy feminist. It’s obvious that MMSL is watered down red pill. It even says on the forum: “Teaching Nice Guys to add a little Bad Boy without becoming Total Douchebags.” Does that sound closer to Roissy or closer to HUS… Read more »
Rollo, you need to stop following me around, spying on what I search on Google, quit eavesdropping on my Facebook conversations, and then using what you learn to create these posts that seem so pertinent and timely What other explanation could there be? Tell me? How did you know that I have been offered 30 pieces of silver? This very week. How else could you have known that? And how else could you know that that the topics I read and research fuel and feed that sense of paranoia, that belief that Lucy is going to lure me nto that… Read more »
Rollo,
Thank you. I read the minor debates on MMSL. I do like Athol’s comparison of red pill to muscle and blue to fat. Seemed that got lost in the mix
“Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.”
Eventually you past the point where you don’t wish anymore. You don’t WANT it to be easier…and you WANT to get better.
What does it mean “internalizing red pill”? “Internalizing” knowledge about women means treating them in ancient terms – like herd animals and disposable fuck toys, they are. How can any trully red pill man marry is just beyond me. It is no miracle that majority of men are not willing to go deep into red pill. Their ability to ever bond with women might be eternally fucked.
@Daniel, have a look at my comments and the exchanges I have with Athol and Jack here and tell me if you think I’m toning anything down:
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2013/05/why-you-need-the-blue-pill-too/
@Kate, there had been some slow, insidious distancing by her under the guise of being “busy” with work. I called her out on this nonsense—bad move. She reacted defensively. Some back and forth. So yes, there’d been some tension in the month. She never made the same efforts. I made the mistake of expressing my frustration. This was the result. In retrospect, I should have just let her go and did my own thing but…i had a momentary lapse of reason and believed the Blue Pill falacy.. Feelings aren’t facts. Should have realized that and had better game. I’m in… Read more »
gregg, I have always thought that internalizing, as in “walking the path” and not just “knowing the path”, the last part of your comment: http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/#comment-8021 was a more definitive sixth-stage of unplugging. “In my mid twenties I began my job as an advocate dealing with divorces. I was determined to protect those angelic women from baaad, baaad devilish men. To my suprise, I witnessed behaviour of women even Satan himself would be proud of having. And I observed something more. Those women doing those acts of ultimate betrayal to their spouses were completely unaware of doing anything wrong! Minute later… Read more »
Daniel is right and his description of MMSL is also right. You don’t owe MMSL an apology, because he has an agenda. People who base their livelihood wholly or partially on the income they generate through the Internet will always have an agenda, because they need to keep the money coming in. And if one has an agenda, one is no longer pursuing the truth.
Athol wants to sell his book. Susan Walsh wants to get in a position where she can sell hers. Don’t fall for them. They promote Game 2.0.
@walawala: Not to give excuses, but perhaps provide insight, I remember being very preoccupied with work in my twenties. It wasn’t until after I had my daughter that work and family began to be put in proper perspective. As more younger women are unmarried and need jobs to support themselves, I imagine the job is even more important. I really don’t think we’re designed for that kind of stress. And I’m even in a female field! As far as effort, I believe you should be with someone who makes the same (or close to the same) effort. This should be… Read more »
Sweet mercy. Can’t you put your enormous analytical energies into something slightly more worthwhile and with a greater probability of paying off, like a Shakespeare play? Granted, it’s much harder than passively absorbing a video. But, brother, do you really think you will uncover the profundities of life by dissecting a plonking cinematic allegory made by a transsexual? There are so many greater treasures to plunder in our culture, most of them literally at your fingertips in this day and age. Yours is an exegesis of the funny pages which you have mistaken for scripture. This is bad, bad religion.… Read more »
TL;DR (since that’s the audience you play down to):
The Matrix is indeed just sci-fi schlock at the end of the day Matt, but Rollo’s message is valid and well-received by me and apparently quite a few others.
Consider maybe saving the green tuxedo for St. Pat’s Day, sir.
Hey Matt…. You may be right. There may be a better analogy to the whole thing. I believe you can take any analogy to far (as you notice, the first part of the word is anal, but I digress). But one of the tenets of being a better MAN is to “Never just point out problems, come with solutions” — so if you have better analogy, the bring it on. I’d love to hear it and discuss it. Here’s the definition (at the ones that are relevant) of ANALOGY from the Merriman-Webster Dictionary (online version)… 1. inference that if two… Read more »
Three Great Women: Hanna Reitsch, Melitta Schenk Grafin von Stauffenberg, Hannah Duston Hanna Reitsch In 1937 Reitsch was posted to the Luftwaffe testing centre at Rechlin-L?rz Airfield by Ernst Udet. She was a test pilot on the Junkers Ju 87 Stuka and Dornier Do 17 projects. Reitsch was the first female helicopter pilot and one of the few pilots to fly the Focke-Achgelis Fa 61, the first fully controllable helicopter. Her flying skill, desire for publicity and photogenic qualities made her a star of Nazi party propaganda. Physically she was petite in stature, very slender with blonde hair, blue eyes… Read more »
“The disbelief we have to suspend here is that the automatons of the Matrix will actually honor their end of the bargain and graciously wipe away all of his memories of being in the real world, to say nothing of actually improving Cypher’s ‘life’, such as it is, once he’s blissfully oblivious of the ‘real’. One would think that after 9 years of watching the Matrix ‘code and understanding how that system works Cypher wouldn’t have been so naive as to think that the system wouldn’t simply kill him once he’d betrayed Morpheus to it.” I think this is a… Read more »
yes yes, but you forgot one important distinction between cyphers “matrix” and ours: in his world the real food is shit but in ours the food that comes from the red pill tastes much better and is plentiful.
if the red pill meant more jacking off, taking orders from a quasi-bulldyke, eating mush and just a general lack of control over my life, id want to go back too.
thank god it isnt that way in real life. life gets sweeter once you get over the disappointment.
Yep It’s Me wrote: so if you have better analogy, the[n] bring it on Already did. Pay attention. Follow the links. And it’s not about the utility of the analogy — metaphor is the essence of teaching. The problem is settling for untested, passive, visual allegory rather than doing the extra work of understanding the more robust, more comprehensive works available to everyone today. There’s an argument for inclusiveness that leads to using least-common-denominator materials. But there’s another argument for challenging men to punch above their weight class: dress for the job you want not the job you have, fake… Read more »
@Monster221 Good point. Red Pill does not mean you are living in a dream world (well I guess we could debate all the existential stuff, but you know what I mean) it’s more like the day that you find out there is not Santa Claus – it’s disappointing and you may “rage against it” but in my case, we still had Christmas, and in fact still kept the Santa tradition, So it’s really just and understanding of “how the world really works” – and once you (really) know it, then you can work within the operating instructions – instead of… Read more »
@Yep It’s Me
Love your comment… it is so true! Once you figure out how to game the system you are good though.
I read The Allegory of the Cave in tenth grade world lit. My teacher also had us reading George Orwell (Animal Farm) and studying the Russian Revolution as well as reading Ayn Rand (Anthem). There is a whole other list of “great books” one should read for this unplugging/Matrix theme.
1984- George Orwell
Fahrenheit 451- Ray Bradbury
Brave New World- Alex Huxley
The Fountainhead- Ayn Rand
Siddhartha- Hermann Hesse
It’s OK Kate, Matt’s first response to everything is that no one is as educated or morally conscious as he is.
The movie, Oh Brother Where Art Thou? is essentially the retelling of The Odyssey. Does it invalidate the story if it’s set in the depression era south instead of ancient Greece?
So this is unrelated but worth bringing up There has been a post flying around the internet as of late that caught my attention. The post is about being “girlfriend” zoned. I get the feeling this was written as a bit of a joke and a shaming tool against the justified anger of men and boys who were friend zoned. Remember if you can’t disprove it you can always discredit it. At first I was really annoyed by this post because it flies in the face of people who were quite hurt. For a guy, being shut down when you… Read more »
Speaking of The Allegory of the Cave, I rejoined an online woman’s group I was part of in the past. I’ve done my usual of dispensing advice, supporting those going through a tough time, etc. I made some pro-male statements yesterday that I was pretty sure would get me into trouble, and it turns out I was right. It makes me so sad that it has to be women vs. men and men vs. women instead of understanding that there are casualties on each side. There are good men and bad men. There are good women and bad women. Why… Read more »
Matt’s first response to everything is that no one is as educated or morally conscious as he is. Wrong. And your insecurity is showing. I suggested there were better works for you to invest your energy into interpreting. I further cautioned that attempting to yield wisdom from a comic book movie is bound to disappoint both you and your students. Knowing that Plato is better than Keanu isn’t me flaunting my degree or talking like a fag. The movie, Oh Brother Where Art Thou? is essentially the retelling of The Odyssey. Does it invalidate the story if it’s set in… Read more »
Kate testified: I count myself lucky everyday to have come out of the cave. It was painful, but your eyes adjust to the light eventually. For me, its been nearly five years. That is a long time to wait But, the reward is a good one and will last all the rest of my years, which is far more than five. Amen. — — — — — [Socrates]: And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain in his eyes which will make him turn away to take and take in the… Read more »
Kate 2:25 pm writes: “Rollo: ‘The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his former blue pill idealisms – that does require a constant effort.’ “I remember writing in the fall about a purple pill: using red pill knowledge to make blue pill dreams come true. Why do you consider that dangerous and a constant effort?” I also would appreciate some discussion of this – particularly in that by actual example Rollo’s married and had a family and been largely monogamous. I often wrestle trying to decipher what he seems to… Read more »
@ Matt: You’ve made some pretty important insights at times, and I seriously mean that. HOWEVER, the tone with which you deliver those insights virtually ensures that nobody will consider them. You consistently exude utter condescension with almost every comment you write, and it makes people NOT want to agree with you. Reading your comments feels like being lectured by a hybrid of the worst aspects of F. Lee Bailey, Rick Santorum, and Al Gore. Nobody wants to hear it. I understand that there are some things that are extremely important to get across, and when you’re facing an actual… Read more »
@ Case
You have obviously studied Rand to the fullest extent of your ability, so I will now help you to double your knowledge, by instructing you to meditate upon the third word in the title of her book “Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal”.
And congratulations on getting through the first two words!
That you have to write this post now Rollo. It’s time that people see that game is a society thing. You can only play the game on societies’ terms. You cannot win. Only when you are BORN alpha you can win. The other guys don’t stand a chance. I’m a gamma male and last week I decided to stop playing. Stop handing my balls over on a silver plate. It’s liberating, it sets you free. The work you have to do for one notch is too much. You don’t have to do any work. Just relax, live your life and… Read more »
[…] The blue-pill is an artificial joy. […]
Thank you, King. It pains me greatly to see these exchanges. Please do try to do the building up with less tearing down. If for no other reason, then for my poor heart.
Thank you for the suggestion, Case. Still have a thing for Howard Roark though 😉
Hamster of the year:
http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2013/05/27/meaningful-glances-from-clarissa-noh/
@Matt Socrates and Plato´s views on world are far above this discussion so there is no use to put them here. According to those teachings – this WORLD as the mere projection of your SOUL including your body, emotions, ego, etc. IS MATRIX. Women are just a part of it, insignificant part and projection of your desire. This blog is about women and society AS THE MATRIX. See the difference? It is structured and usefull for common people not for the tiny minority of awakened. And still there is a good portion of valuable wisdom which can be used in… Read more »
Talk about “artificial joy.” Nobody likes to be criticized for his deficiencies. The tendency of the criticized is to focus on the critic himself rather than the content of the criticism. So you imagine that all I need to do is adopt a niceguy disposition and the content will stand on its own. Case in point above. I (sharply) suggested you not depend on sci-fi potboilers for your intellectual salvation but rather devote your prodigious energies to something with a greater chance of paying off. Humiliation is half the message. You feel no shame finding comfort in false idolatry, in… Read more »
“There is no “building up with less tearing down.” You can’t build towers without clearing the tenements first. But you don’t want to hear that you are in the slums. You don’t want to hear that you are not good enough to make it. You want me to call you curvy and big boned with a placating warm smile on my face.” Did you just fucking call me fat? People are already torn down. In many cases, you are dealing with people in ruins. Until *you* realize they don’t need you to make it worse, you will be doomed to… Read more »
If I have to find the antithesis of wisdom and experience in one sentence, it would be this:
“When you’re ready to graduate to the grown-ups’ table, seek ME out again. I can’t promise availability, though.”
Matt, you have to be very amusing and interesting person…like the rest of us 😉
Did you just fucking call me fat? People are already torn down. In many cases, you are dealing with people in ruins. Until *you* realize they don’t need you to make it worse, you will be doomed to remain unable to help them, which I know is your ultimate intention. Never have I seen someone so capable so powerless. Stop. And examine. Whoa, lady. I didn’t call you fat, so put down the rolling pin. Incidentally, I don’t think you literally live in the slums either. I didn’t include you in the group I was criticizing at all. In fact,… Read more »
“…the tone with which you deliver those insights virtually ensures that nobody will consider them. You consistently exude utter condescension with almost every comment you write, and it makes people NOT want to agree with you.” “Do you feel the need to put others down to feel good about yourself or fucking what?” Oh wahh waahh waaaahhhhhh! Somebody call the waaaaaaammmbulance!!!! What a joke. This entire pathetic critique says a lot more about you than it does about Matt. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but whatever it is you are, you are not men. GROW UP.… Read more »
Hey Kate, Yes, Matt did call you fat. And no, he did not apologize for doing so. I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself. Your perception of Matt is exactly right. Except, perhaps, when you describe him as “capable.” He’s a nuisance at worst, and an amusement at best. Take him for what he is. Whenever his bombast becomes too much to take, just remember that he believes in a supernatural, invisible being who created the earth and heavens. That will put him in perspective. He is a superstitious freak, no different from a jungle savage worshipping the… Read more »
I feel I know him best of anyone here and I have learned several valuable lessons from him. I’m just going to have to stop reading because this is what men do, apparently, and its just too distressing. As a woman its just too much conflict. Knock yourselves out.
“I feel I know him best of anyone here and I have learned several valuable lessons from him.”
You just learned another valuable lesson from Matt: a lesson in arrogance and smugness. For all his posturing, for all his assumed moral superiority, a simple “I’m sorry — I didn’t intend to insult you” is completely beyond him.
I am sorry to hear that you are considering leaving this site. You are one of the very few female commenters I enjoy hearing from. Please don’t let our Mad Jesuit bully or intimidate you into leaving.
“Hey Kate, Yes, Matt did call you fat. And no, he did not apologize for doing so. I’m proud of you for standing up for yourself. Your perception of Matt is exactly right. Except, perhaps, when you describe him as “capable.” He’s a nuisance at worst, and an amusement at best. Take him for what he is. Whenever his bombast becomes too much to take, just remember that he believes in a supernatural, invisible being who created the earth and heavens. That will put him in perspective. He is a superstitious freak, no different from a jungle savage worshipping the… Read more »
It’s hard to be a prophet in the comment section.
In other words, hopelessness only comes from helplessness.
I love this blog. This is the only manosphere blog now where I continuously gain fresh insights whether they be from Rollo or the commenters.
Ha!
So Matt, how about you stop telling Rolo or others how they should write and do it yourself? Start a blog, write a book, and do-it-yourself. When I was a pro musician I’d run into amateurs and wanna-be’s who would tell me everything I should be doing, how I should play something, what kind of stuff I should be writing, etc, it was always amusing… and my answer was always the same “if that’s what you want to hear, write and play it yourself” So write the blog post you think we should all be reading, write the book that… Read more »
I just love blogs and passionate readers – and reading comments. It reminds me of rafting down the Colorado River – there are long stretches where things just flow, literally you are floating – then there short bursts of real rapids, where you have to be conscience and paddle like hell. What Rollo started (in this blog post) was like the river master shoving us off the banks of the river and waving goodbye – the rest of the journey is ours. @Kate — yes you are right, men debate, men argue, men stand tall with an opinion, in many… Read more »
“It’s hard to be a prophet in the comment section”
@Balzac — Love this.
I personally love reading all of this. I’ve been with 70+ women. Had probably 300+ dates. I look back and realize that I have both alpha and beta tendancies. I think of 2 very attractive women I dated. One I fell for. One I didn’t. I was mostly Alpha w the one I didn’t fall for. What happened? I had access to her a year later. I was mostly Beta with the one I fell for. She never returned. There is validity in a lot of these articles to me. However, if you just act like a hard ass all… Read more »
“My problem with Kay’s comments was his implicit assumption that most of what’s good in life is actually Blue Pill. Happiness derived from delusion is still delusion, and it will come crashing down on you just the same.” I don’t think this is always, or even mostly, true. From my point of view, people who believe in the afterlife are likely deluded, but they are pretty happy and never does anything seem to come crashing down for them. Other people believe in angels, healers, astrology, and other shit, and it always “works” for them. Not to mention, some people have… Read more »
When I start talking about the inevitability of a collapse of society due to population growth, sustainability issues, and currency/economy issues, people don’t want to even consider it or hear about it. I think I’d be happier living in ignorance on that topic. However, I prefer knowing about women. At least I have some control over that issue.
I saw a really hot young woman this morning. My first thought was, “Wow, foxy.” My second thought was, “She’ll be some guy’s nightmare someday.”
I can be uncultured, uneducated, uninspired, whatever – but I’d rather use pop-culture references… I use pop references all the time. The problem isn’t using them as a quick and dirty metaphor. The problem is depending on them to frame a philosophy, especially when using it for an extended pedagogical allegory. That stretches the balloon well past its elasticity. Red pill-taking, or voluntarily awakening from a comforting hallucination, is a useful metaphor. But then to call yourself “red-pill” this and “unplugged” that brings on sloppy analysis, which leads to accepting schlock like the following as profound: No Neo, what I’m… Read more »
Since the discussion is on MMSL, I have to say I am disappointed with the forum he started. I was trying to peruse it for good advice and it seems over half his readers are now women.
I am not trying to break his rice bowl. Those ladies don’t belong there and he hasn’t put his foot down. I am not impressed.
No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Glover has everything you need to up the Alpha and ditch the AFC.
“Because I am not here to preach or enlighten. I am here to find the already prepared. To rally a few good men, the happy few, the band of brothers, and to leave the rest to…” If you’re serious about that, you should have a chat with commenter ‘Porter’ over at Mangan’s blog. So alike the two of you appear to be in terms of education, philosophy, command of the language, breadth/depth of knowledge and general sense of repartee that I’ve occasionally wondered if you’re the same person, employing a slightly different tone. A meeting of the minds would surely… Read more »
@shinzaemon +1 Women will never get it and their “help” is not very helpful. But the MMLS forum is full of fem-attention-seeking-men – that love to engage all those “red pill” women and “first mates” to get their opinion on one thing or another. I posted there for about a month, until I figured out what was going on – still read the blog, but don’t engage on the forum or comments. I was very active on the NMMNG forum for about 6 months – not so much over the past 3. There is lots of pain over there and… Read more »
I am not “Porter,” and I’ve never been to Mangan’s blog because it sounds wayyy too much like “mangina.” Wouldn’t risk my street cred.
Ok so I tried using Plenty of Fish to help with my text game, any advice? Where did I go wrong, was I to much of a Douche, Rollo please help me. So here goes; Me: I don’t think we should get to know each other. Her: Then why did you message me? Me:We just wouldn’t get along, you wouldn’t take my shit, I wouldn’t take yours, etc. Her:Okay? Me: It’s because were to much alike, who do you think cheats more in relationships girls or guys? Her: Both cheat. Not one cheats more than the other. Me: Oh my… Read more »
Athol was my introduction to all of this, but I didn’t get that post. I get his thesis about cultivating a mixture of alpha and beta traits. But he also seemed to say that working on the beta side was only really safe once you went red pill. Frankly, I’m happier working toward being red pill. Doing anything blue pill, beta or alpha (yeah, I’d say I know a couple of blue pill alphas, i.e. naturals) strikes me as as inviting tragedy.
@Matthew
We all come from divergent backgrounds here. I don’t give a fuck about Plato and my six fig salary tells me that I don’t have to. But I’ve seen the Matrix.
The Matrix is our Esperanto.
I normally like your comments but, chill.
“Begs a lot of questions” surely you mean “raises a lot of questions”
Oh please. Keep the jock/nerd bravado in high school.
I didn’t say you should know Plato. I said Rollo should, if he is going to expend so much energy in an attempt at deep explanation/translation to students exactly like you. Matrix is fine for your limited purposes, but a disaster for his more expansive mission.
Matt
@ Yep It’s Me
I like his forum because its men speaking to men. I only wish their were more members and posted more often at NMMNG forums. Those guys don’t act pansies.
There was a hilarious post were a bitchy wife found out he was a member and wanted to ” set the record straight”.
Hilarity ensued.
The guys told her this was a men’s board for men and moved her post somewhere else.
[…] “Don’t wish it were easier, wish you were better.” […]
Comment section TLDR, but my $0.02
[i]In the blue pill Matrix, everything was set for them, but with a red pill awareness comes the responsibility of doing things for themselves.[/i]
The corollary may be true as well: The responsibility of doing things for themselves leads to red pill awareness.
I won’t claim to have known it all over the last 25 years, but I came upon much of it on my own; the Matrixsphere helped me figure out where a lot of the pieces fit together.