Fear and Freedom

Lies-and-Truth

EastWind from the SoSuave forum has come to the existential conflict of the bitter taste of the red pill:

So, after reading through the most prominent articles of Rollo’s, Roissy’s and some of Dalrock’s, alongside this comment and this comment by Mark Minter, I’ve reached a point of depression and giddiness at the same time.

Their take on the female imperative, female behavior, marriage, relationships and everything else rings so true to me, it’s unbelievable. I find it impossible that any guy could read these posts, then go back outside and compare what he sees and what he has experienced and is experiencing to what he has read and not see the truth in it. Maybe the reason this understanding comes naturally to me is because I’ve seen and experienced enough (emotional) pain at the hands of fellow humans to know for damn certain a human being is capable of just about anything given the right circumstances, and maybe it’s because I’ve dabbled in this “game” and “manosphere” stuff for near to ten years now, ever since I was 15, so I am actually an example of someone who was, in a way, brought up with it.

And I see the divorce rate and the cock carousel riders and my friends who get knocked around by their girls and my colleague who announced he’s going to be a daddy and he’s so happy and, isn’t life full of miracles, both methods of contraception they were using failed at the same time, what a coincidence, and he’s an engineer who deals with fail rates, no less. So now he’s going to be a daddy on a PhD salary because his girl will stay at home and, what do you know, the baby’s due two months after she’s getting her degree, another happy coincidence.

And I’m starting to wake up, not from the dream of happy equal relationships, I had forgotten that years ago, but from everything, and I realize:

The true red pill doesn’t tell you, as a man, that women are sh1t-testing you, it makes you see that everything and everyone in your life and society is grooming you up to be a provider, to be someone who does work for other people’s benefits, to give your money and LIFE for some cause that is not your own.

It’s enough to seriously depress a man. This had been creeping up in the back of my head for some time now, Rollo and co. just had the words to give it a shape; that most of what we do is utterly pointless if we let go of trying to obtain women. Suddenly nothing matters much anymore.

I’m supposed to get a good education, a steady job, a comfortable apartment, for what? Other people tell me it’s so I can take care of a family, but now the only reason for me to do so is for mysecurity and convenience, I find myself planning out my life without a woman, with a comfortable minimum of expenditures and “furnitures” and a maximum of free time and enjoyable activities, with a job that provides me with enough cash to live, do the things I like and put some on the side in case I do get old.

But it’s scary. It’s fucking scary, believe me. Suddenly the questions everybody is asking, here and in real life, i.e. “how can I get a girlfriend?”, “how can I get laid?”, “what will I do/what will become of my family if I lose my job?”, they lose all their importance. I find myself wondering why I should have to head to some place everyday, whether I want to or not, whether it’s interesting or not, when I could be doing more enjoyable things, and no matter how much you love your work, there’s always more enjoyable things than work. My PhD topic is somewhat interesting, but I’m pissed off by the “office politics” going on at my institute, even though it’s a bloody university, and you know what? If I leave, or am made to leave, it doesn’t matter because I only have myself to take care of.

So a side effect of realizing that you will never find a woman who will be thankful for the sacrifices you make for her is utter and total freedom. And freedom is huge, and it’s scary. And I can’t handle it. I’m sticking with my position because, well, it’s somewhat interesting, but mainly because I don’t know what else to do. I’ve never been prepared for this, never been told that dreams can be reached, how to reach them.

And another thing is, and this is for you, Rollo, well, what about women now? I’m 25, I’m eligible, and every woman my age, even the nice, kind, beautiful, sweet, intelligent ones, who gives me serious attention creeps me out because I know what she’s really after.

The Red Pill makes you see that the only people who love you for who you truly are is your parents, if you’re lucky, and every other person in this world is going to expect something from an association with you, with women expecting your life for it. And this is why we cry so miserably when our parents die (I did when my mom died), it’s the subconscious knowledge that no-one will love us like they did, be there for us like they were, without expecting anything in return, simply because it was us.

All my friends and family tell me, well, yes, bad things could happen to you, but you just have to find the RIGHT girl, and in my eyes all of them are insane. This isn’t like having to take the right street in a peaceful German town or you’ll get mugged, this is like walking around Johannesburg blindfolded.

I’m not trying to fight the concepts, I see their truth. But I can bloody well be disgusted at the way the world works.

So what about the “giddiness” I talked about up there? Well, feeling free makes you giddy. It makes you VERY giddy. The feeling that your life isn’t planned out or that there’s only one true possible path is positively exhilarating. But it’s also extremely scary.

Eastwind finds himself on the cusp of something great, but at the same time scary. He’s the first of a generation of Game aware men who were ‘raised’ in a post red pill internet culture. He’s part of a generation of men coming to terms with the very disturbing realities the still evolving manosphere has presented for him, but he’s still in a position of choosing how he will use that awareness to plan his future life.

There are going to be more men like Eastwind in the coming decades. Men asking ‘what’s the point?’ as they move into the primes of their lives. These are the guys who will truly be men going their own way; unmotivated by life plans that were presented to him, but rather men reimagining those plans according to the unplugged reality they’re now aware of.

These are the Men that the feminine imperative is threatened by – a vanguard of men who are aware of their real value to women and society, and can make life impacting choices free from the influence of the imperative. I understand the ‘giddiness’ in that freedom, but I also understand the hostility that will be leveled at them by a feminized social mindset which can’t afford to have these Men making other men aware of their servitude by exemplifying red-pill awareness in their life choices.

The system will fight Eastwind in every arena; psychological, familial, sociological, financial, political, every feminized aspect that can pull the crab back into the barrel will be used against him. The primary weapon of the feminine imperative is male self-doubt. Doubt that he’ll be able to craft a life by his plan, doubt that he’s wrong about the machinations of the imperative, doubt in the certainty of his new awareness, doubt that he’ll ever experience love in his own context. Because once he doubts his certainty of purpose, once he doubts his power to direct his own course, that is when the imperative welcomes him to its comfortable reality.

The anxiety and fear you feel is the the result of being cut away from a system that’s already established for you. The giddiness is from the potential to create a new system for yourself.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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FuriousFerret
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This is what will cause change. True change whether it be for the better of society or it’s own destruction. If Game was partially created by studying how a woman plays men and then flipping the script on them, consider this the coup de grace. Running their own careerist/SATC scheme right down their throats. If you can get the greater betas and the alphas on board to never marry until they are past their prime as the feminists do, you will have brought down the FI to it’s knees. If the norm becomes that every guy worth a damn fucks… Read more »

doclove
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He’ll have to resist being suckered back into taking the blue pill. Emotionally, most men at some point want to settle with one woman as his wife and have children. Evidentiary and Logical reasons say not to in today’s world because women are not trained to appreciate what men have done for them especially their husbands and worse they appreciate even less what men especially husbands have attempted and failed to do for women especially wives. Emotionally wanting what men of yesteryear were more likely to have had, an appreciative woman, is less likely. Even many men like Mark Minter… Read more »

FlybyNight
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I envy these first generation red pillars. Remember society and pretty much everyone else does not give a crap about you. Just go forth and enjoy life with all your new found wisdom and thank all the old guys who spoon fed it to you.

tarzanwannabe
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I am excited to hear of ‘red pill awareness’ from a 25yo man. My son is 9yo — and Daddy is teaching him. wink

mikec74
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Rollo, Great post. This one really resonates with me. The anxiety and fear you feel is the the result of being cut away from a system that’s already established for you. The giddiness is from the potential to create a new system for yourself. IMO, the ultimate red-pill truth is that you can live your life according to your own script. For many people though, it can be a terrifying prospect to lose the script that has been inculcated to them from either/both their parents and society/feminine imperative. Figuring out what you really want and how you really want to… Read more »

Senior Beta
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There can’t be many old guys like me who read this who would not give their left nut to be in the position of Eastwind. Hopefully my sons will became as self aware as he is. And quit fretting about the faculty politics. It exists in every job in the private sector too. Just plan for yourself. Maybe you will get lucky and find a red pill woman like Judgybitch. Not too likely though.

sally1137
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Eastwind can see further because he stands on the shoulders of giants.

feral1404
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Maybe, just maybe, contemplate that ‘there’s nothing new under the sun.’ I would submit that it’s always been like this. There have been deballed, pestered and nagged beta men since the dawn of civilization, just as there have been alpha men who would wave their hand sans emotion at a woman’s most hysterical tears as so much annoyance; and there exists every sort of man on the spectrum in between. I think we only see, recognize and are able to battle-plan against the feminine imperative because technology and social media allows us to collectively see what our fathers couldn’t collectively… Read more »

Jonathon Factory
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The 50 year old female marketing manager at my office is a flibberty jibbit of the highest order (in a Joe vs. The Volcano kind of way). Reasonably attractive and in great shape for a woman of any age. Divorced but boyfriended with a guy she must not like because she tells me she’s been on dating sites. She’s seen my profile on there. I’m 38. So that’s what she’s searching. She’s also mentioned that guys are all needy. She’s shit out of luck and never going to be happy because effectively any man that decides he wants to be… Read more »

mikec74
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She found out a few days ago I’m currently seeing a 21 yr. old. A very cute 21 yr. old. She began howling openly in the workplace with a full audience “That’s sick. You’re disgusting. MY DAUGHTER’S 21!!!…. You stay away from my daughter!!!!” and on and on and on….. Ten minutes. Honestly. She found out about my lifestyle choice — to date very young women and have nothing to do with women my age or older — and openly tried to shame me for it. Jonathon, You need to read this immediately http://alphagameplan.blogspot.com/2013/03/black-knights.html Depending on the severity of her… Read more »

jack
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If the norm becomes that every guy worth a damn fucks around until 45 and they don’t feel shame in doing so. It’s game over.

Then what? What’s a man supposed to do when he’s 45+? Is he supposed to be a player forever scaled up? Is that healthy?

Lolik
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I’ll chip in with my story: About a year ago, I started taking finasteride to fight hairloss. It helps, but one of the side effects it had on me was decreased libido – aka: I don’t want to fuck/fap as often as I used to and consequently women have lost much of their appeal in my eyes. Let me tell the Manosphere – if there ever is a true “red pill” for men, it would be this: a product that kills your sexual desire. Women would become just other people to you. you don’t hate them, you don’t love them,… Read more »

earl
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I always said if a unicorn crosses my path…I’d do the marriage thing.

But it is scary yet exciting the freedom of creating your own plan is.

I live a pretty happy life because the job I do is what I always wanted to do…so I never have the “what is the point” question when it comes to that.

As far as women…now I’m just using them for my amusement. That’s really their only value anymore. It is just interesting getting into social situations and continuing to learn Game.

boxsterpaul
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I can see where EastWind is coming from, its great that he has this insight at such a young age. As has been said above, I feel he will decide to have children, I am thinking he has swallowed the pill and is thinking about the worst possible scenarios. Once the medicine hits he will calm his nerves and not see everything through such a harsh filter. I would make the correlation to a pre med student going through med school. They believe they have every malady they learn about. The good thing for him he is forewarned and forearmed.… Read more »

Underdog
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I feel the same way as a 26 year old man with a good career. It’s an amazing feeling.

BC
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These are the Men that the feminine imperative is threatened by – a vanguard of men who are aware of their real value to women and society, and can make life impacting choices free from the influence of the imperative. I understand the ‘giddiness’ in that freedom, but I also understand the hostility that will be leveled at them by a feminized social mindset which can’t afford to have these Men making other men aware of their servitude by exemplifying red-pill awareness in their life choices. As mikec74 above also pointed out, this is why Giggles, her HUSsies, and their… Read more »

Jacob Ian Stalk
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Any man who finds himself ‘free’ from women and marriage should ask himself what vlue that freedom actually has. Freedom has no value if it’s used serve only ourselves. That’s the road to nowhere; the abyss into which the OE is staring. It’s the same sense of futility men have sought to resolve for millennia; the very reason the sons of Adam found God all those eons ago. As expected, the bible has it covered: “I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. But a… Read more »

Ton
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A man elects to be happy or not. Sure things will come along and the proper response is sadness but for the most part, men should learn how to choose to be happy, then choose to be happy. That way when you learn bitter truths, which we do our whole lives, it doesn’t affect your positive mental state for long. Living well and being happy is often the best revenge a man will ever get.

I cannot say it often enough, thanks be to the Almighty I am in an all masculine progression.

ray
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“The system will fight Eastwind in every arena; psychological, familial, sociological, financial, political, every feminized aspect that can pull the crab back into the barrel will be used against him.” yup and dont forget “legal” — basically a male-beatdown machine generating constant and tremendous profits for women and sellouts as men increasingly are forced to become the Impoverished Gender, access to defense in the legal sistem goes bye bye. . . and dont the ticks love it too “He’s the first of a generation of Game aware men who were ‘raised’ in a post red pill internet culture” men were… Read more »

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c)
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One of the best blog posts I have seen this year. I am going to make a video about it now and put it on my channel.

Here is my notice to young men. I recommend all young men in the english speaking world listen to this.

highwasp
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Rollo this article resonates with me – I too “find it impossible that any guy could read these posts, then go back outside and compare what he sees and what he has experienced, and is experiencing currently, compare that to what he has read in these posts and not see the truth in it.” and thank you for spelling it out – your prose details the same conclusions, reactions and realizations I have come to over the past decade… and I have 25 years on you. The feminine imperative and feminism will be over the day men stop planning their lives… Read more »

walawala
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Great post. Seen more positively, it can be communicated to women you’re gaming who ask “Where are we?” or “Where is this leading?” with “Happiness is its own goal and reward…” if the goal is children, or family or whatever, none of those things offers any guarantees of anything. I started to see this early on and in retrospect got married because I felt I had to under societal and family pressures. Since my divorce far from drifting, I’ve become more focused on personal achievements and happiness. Since discovering game, I’ve become more self-aware. I make mistakes, I say or… Read more »

FuriousFerret
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“But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband.”

At least we can all agree that this doesn’t apply anymore.

Jeremy
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Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to… suffering. — master Yoda. I am old by comparison, but having never married I only differ in resources gained with the commenter quoted in the post. The only fear I feel in gmow is what my action, summed with those of millions of other men, brings to the country and the future of civilization. It took many generations of men sacrificed over the whims of tyrants to get to where we are today. What happens tomorrow when the sons of those… Read more »

Jonathon Factory
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@ Mikec74: I obviously gave that thought a bit of time. I just graduated from a ranked business school (career reboot) and had plenty of HR training regarding hostile environment. Of course that training was very much in a language teaching women how to notice when it happens to them and men how to avoid creating it. The reality is I only have eight weeks left on a contract gig that grossly overpays me for nothing while she’s vital to what they’re doing. She’s a nut bag, but she knows brand management. She’ll be in my rear view soon enough.… Read more »

Apollo
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@Mikec74

Thanks for the reference to the HUS thread. Its very instructive to see the furious efforts that Susan and co were making to try and obscure and confuse the anti marriage arguments from Wavevector and Escoffier. Despite the claims that Susan doesnt want to push men into marriage against their intrests, I wonder if she consciously realises the extent of her bias towards the feminine imperative. Probably not, since she doesnt even admit the existence of such a thing

Apollo
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I have to agree with feral who states theres nothing new under the sun. What Eastwind has recognised here, beyond the aspects that the Manosphere usually concerns themselves with, is that society always needs people to fill the role of the “worker bee” and most of us are pushed, with a concerted deliberite effort by society, to fill that role. This is basically just what we see here, but just with an additional twist of Feminism and some extra feminine imperative. Its the current modern flavor of the same old dish. Once you realise, the question then becomes what do… Read more »

kios
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I had a similar experience to a guy above at work just recently, but it wasn’t about younger woman. it was about a woman in the workplace that i guessed correctly was an alpha widow, UMC princess type with an entitlement complex. To her credit she admitted that i was right, but she didn’t like when i told her that if she wants to live a lifestyle like the one she grew up with–she is 25 and still living at home–she may have to marry a rich nerd, She screwed up her face when i said that and i just… Read more »

kios
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For real though, men that know their worth and understand the TRUE rules of the game, not the bullshit fake ones, are a huge threat to women and society in general. Women do operate as if they have a safety net. When i tried to explain to a 35 year old co-worker recently that men her age with money wanting to date younger women was totally fair, she went ballistic and said i was being shallow. But when i asked her why the man had to be rich, implying that was shallow too, she claimed that wanting a lifestyle isnt… Read more »

kios
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…doesn’t suit her, but i bet she lived by the iron law when she was in her prime.

Women don’t mature; they just get old. and when they get old theu start to complain about how unfair the dating game is, despite the fact that they created and benefitted from the rules at a younger age.

When women are too picky and miss their window of opportunity, i don’t feel in the least bit sorry for them: it’s poetic justice.

ray
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Ton — I cannot say it often enough, thanks be to the Almighty I am in an all masculine progression. well said and keep saying it; the truth is shredding your enemies Almighty God is the one guiding our Great Escape, and without Him the present condition of boys and men would soon deteriorate to overt enslavement, with all “community” pretenses dropped our masculinity comes from Him, the aspects of Himself that he generously shares with us, helping to draw us back to Him …. the point of any real “movement” by men the greastest time to be a man… Read more »

Peter-Andrew: Nolan(c)
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Rollo,
I just finished and loaded my commentary on this blog post. I hope you get some traffic from my subs as well.

introvertsuccess
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I discovered the PU scene when I was 17. But back then it was Ross Jeffries and then Mystery… so the ‘red pill’ thinking wasn’t very advanced. To a large extent I still lived under matrix rules, but living with some modifications and hacks.

One thing that has become really clear to me is that men aren’t shown the option that they can spend 10 – 15 years working on their craft before settling down. No, the message is to become saddled with a career, debt and a family asap, no later than in the late 20’s.

D-Man
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What goes around, comes around. Game is the anti-venom for hypergamy’s poison on society. Unleashed hypergamy created a legion of men who grew up without sufficient masculine guidance. More single-mother families (or functionally absent dads working their asses off to keep up), feminism taking men out of teaching, pervasive mass media thought indoctrination… Those of us who seek the truths we have missed are doggedly finding a way to piece it together ourselves, collectively. As we distill it down, it’s becoming apparent that we are assembling a motherfucking powerful tool for freeing minds. They are freaking out because we are… Read more »

Marellus
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Women don’t mature; they just get old

Amen

Kate
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Kate
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Knowing what you know at twenty-five makes it all the more likely you could find the kind of woman you’re looking for, if you really want to. Those women are rare and it honestly might take you five years to find one. Start conducting your nationwide search now. Remember, your potential future wife might only be fifteen right now. My ex-husband first entered my world as a friend of my family when I was eleven and he was twenty-two. Of course, nothing happened romantically between us until the summer before my twentieth birthday, but he knew me and my innocence.… Read more »

yousowould
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Another victim of “too much red pill” by the sounds of it. I went through that stage at one point before coming out the other side, and realising that the entirety of society isn’t actually out to enslave me. It IS however a distinct possibility that that situation can be sleepwalked into however without having had your eyes opened to the realities of the world.

The red pill is a great tool for educating men about the way the world really works and stripping away naivety. It can also create bitter, spiteful characters however.

JustYX
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“the entirety of society isn’t actually out to enslave me.” not consciously, no. However, society is damn casual about taking whatever you’re willing to have taken. Hell, their courts will force men to pay support for children that aren’t their own, kick men out of university through the use of kangaroo courts, lock men up over false DV accusations, redefine DV to ridiculous degree (pointing out that they can’t afford to buy X is DV?) As more men take the red-pill, society may well get a bit more pro-active on the remaining blue-pillers. They are right to be worried about… Read more »

Mark Minter
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I had so hoped that Game was a potential social force. I fear now that it may not be. I believe the reality is that many women wish to be free from men. At least free in the sense that traditional marriage placed men into their lives. Its hard to say because I am pulled between prior social conditioning and prior experience that when I was younger, it was the women that seemed to press for marriage. Of all the things said in the Manosphere, it may be that the truest thing came from one its most comical and potentially… Read more »

Apollo
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@yousowould I went through that stage at one point before coming out the other side, and realising that the entirety of society isn’t actually out to enslave me. No, the entirety of society isnt out to enslave people. Just the bits of society with actual power and influence. Theres “good” selfless people out there, but they are generally not the ones pushing the agenda, or setting the rules that ultimately effect us. How much of mainstream society today is giving its young people, specifically men, helpful and realistic life path advice that doesnt primarily benefit someone else? It seems to… Read more »

bob
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Part of why EastWind feel so bad is because he thinks women are now his enemies. Please, first of all, keep in mind at ALL times that “women” doesn’t mean anything. Some women are kind, some are bitchy, some like the manosphere, some are feminists. Talking about women as a whole is a very bad idea. You can talk about the Feminine Imperative as a concept, with a clear definition. You can say that it is present in every women. But it is only present TO SOME EXTENT. Some women embrace their FI, and some fight it. Some women are… Read more »

Student001
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@Mark Minter Fantastic comment. I liked your thoughts about economics and immigrant men being used to replace men that won’t work in those conditions. I just disagree with the wrap-up. Men don’t feel a connection with each other based on their gender. I’ve read a lot of history. Groups of men fight each other for power. That’s it. There will never be a successful men’s rights movement. It would break the machine. Your only option is form or join a gang a la Jack Donovan’s The Way of Men. If you succeed and carve out an economic niche, you become… Read more »

Student001
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An addendum:

That said, not every man is your enemy. There’s a lot to be gained from cooperation and trust and working together on projects. But without a core group, you cannot build real success.

tilikum
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one point is a bit off…an alpha cant trust his mother only sisters, grandparents and aunts.

both mother (while growing up) and mate, as a evo reaction to an alphas natural boundary testing and risk profile, must retain the ability to detach and move forward.

a lesson i reinforce w my 6 year old constantly

trackback

[…] slavery (the opposite of freedom), so it takes much effort to gain and maintain (freedom is work), admist the fear, self-doubt, and hostility of others (NSFW for language): These are the Men that the feminine imperative is threatened by – a […]

leftbelt
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The major flaw in the post is claiming that ALL women are like this. Yes, MOST women love a confident guy.

But, not all women are looking to suck a man’s wallet dry. Just as many MEN financially rape women. Many women OUTEARN their men.

This is the main flaw in the manosphere. Utter obliviousness to realities outside of the 1-sided “PUA agenda”.

leftbelt
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My woman owns her own house, and picks up the tab more often than I do. She also makes the same salary as I do.

I know many guys who are women who make more money. I have friends who have married big earning women and they live a much wealthier lifestyle because of their wife’s higher earnings power. These are screw ups who are now living in the most elite school districts for their kids. All because they married a wealthy woman. Some of these guys barely even work.

Tilikum
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NAWALT alert^^^^^

whats your name honey?

Underdog
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LMAO

my anecdote > conventional wisdom

leftbelt
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Idiot, I’m not a woman. Just a sane logical objective male who can enjoy both sport fucking or being in a stable relationship. This blog post is a great example of the unintended consequences of PUA game. The kids almost been brainwashed taken in too far. EVERY woman is not a parasite. Lots of women don’t need a fucking man. Yea, damn straight NAWALT. It bears repeating in echo chambers like manosphere blogs. And no one said I was refuting conventional wisdom. The OP did with his delusional rantings. “I’m 25, I’m eligible, and every woman my age, even the… Read more »

Apollo
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@bob Those girls are not your enemy. Those girls will listen, obey, and love. Those girls will make you happy and fulfilled. And those girls do exist. Go and find them. So NAWALT basically? Thats nice. Where are these good women though? How do you tell them apart from the bad women? How to determine that they arent playing a part, and wont change their minds once youre invested? Rhetorical questions, you dont need to answer. Its been my experience to see even some of the “good” ones get fat, chop their hair short and lose all interest in sex… Read more »

kios
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Leftbelt: More men get screwed over financially in court than women. Women don’t tend to marry men that make less tham them. Are there exceptions? Sure, but in the grand scheme of things they are statistically insignificant.

Underdog
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NALTALT: Not all lottery tickets are like that (one of them is the winner!)

EastWind
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Secondly, you should be PROUD to be a provider. It means you produce, you are useful, and your efforts allow you to take care of others. Taking care of others is good. Simply choose carefully WHO you are taking care of. Nowadays I immediately get suspicious when people tell me I should be proud of something. Specifically, the fact that you used the word “useful” because all of a sudden the discussion is about someone’s standards of “usefulness”. Something’s “useful” if it serves MY purpose, starting with food and shelter and ending with, possibly, entertainment. You can of course argue… Read more »

leftbelt
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Being a provider is for suckers, unless you feel good about doing it. Lots of men are resentful at being stuck with the provider burden. And, so are many wives, when it’s forced upon them due to layoffs, etc.

leftbelt
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@kios Wives earn more than the deadbeat husband in almost 1/3 of all marriages.

Sal Ceech
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Rollo ,.. I caught this while going through SS.I was feeling depressed enough that it did get me to tears … my concluding thought that as lonely and worst case scenario…. to me I have no other choice my freedom I hold dear.Thank you for the reassuring post .Before you posted about the.myths .. I thought I would be the old man in Tuscany.It was a very painful thought.If I do live that long , I can,t have it any other way … thanx for being like an older brother who imparts the wisdom.

Underdog
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@mikec74

“If one wants to see this exact dynamic in play, go check out the HUS thread The Lofty Aspirations of Millennial Women…”

Did a bunch of posts just get deleted from that article? IIRC, it had over 1700 posts. I could be wrong.

Akatsukami
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“NAWALT (Not All Women Are Like That)”.

To which I respond “BAAA (But Almost All Are)”.

deti
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deti
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“The primary weapon of the feminine imperative is male self-doubt. Doubt that he’ll be able to craft a life by his plan, doubt that he’s wrong about the machinations of the imperative, doubt in the certainty of his new awareness, doubt that he’ll ever experience love in his own context. Because once he doubts his certainty of purpose, once he doubts his power to direct his own course, that is when the imperative welcomes him to its comfortable reality.” And how will the feminine imperative manifest that doubt? One need look no further than the HUS thread Mike C and… Read more »

Case
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Case
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@deti, Been seeing a lot of this along the lines of “Is it really true that men get taken to the cleaners in an “I’m not haaaaappy” divorce?… –the statistics say men make out better in divorce in standards of living. So divorce can’t really be that bad for men, can it?” I am a numbers guy, but a numbers guy who gets the qualitative and gets the art along with the science. What you have in this is a case of numbers masquerading the raw true. The raw truth is what is bleeding here. Bleeding in the article, bleeding… Read more »

anotheronetakesthepill
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Aren’t japanese herbivores an example of this?
I see going our own way as the best indirect way to attract them. Once you show them that you are unattainable, they look for you.

Case
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Case
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Oh – folks, just so you understand “a third of your income and is not tax deductible” … let me break this down: For sake of example, since we are using 3rds, let’s pick $90K, since that is divisible easily by 3. You make $90K. She makes $20K. Your 1/3 child support is taken pre-tax, that means that you actually net, pre-tax, $60K. HOWEVER, since it is child support, you cannot deduct it. So you are taxed at the $90K rate(!), on your $60K (!) of income. Oh but it gets better. When you were married, you filed jointly, you… Read more »

xclampa
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Rollo… Making your own way is scary at first, but like with puberty, once you get through it it becomes exhilarating. There is good women out there with whom you can make your way. Ones who have read the manosphere, or understand the basics. Doesn’t have to be that way thou’. Funny, cause from my perspective I see men and think… will they still be interesting and will I want to sleep beside them in 10/20/50 years? I’m infertile, so kids were never something I thought of as priority. Money’s never been an issue as well, cause I did put… Read more »

DAn
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DAn
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By this standard it seems Christianity, and not just modern Christianity or Churchianity as VD puts it, is inherently blue pill because it calls for men to sacrifice themselves for others, especially their wives. I’m kind of strung up between the two because I see the truth in the red pill narrative, but I also believe in Jesus.

Immediate
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Good overall advice on the divorce stuff Case. If you are looking at a divorce try to separate finances as much as possible. I know this is easier said than done with these “wives” but the more you can and the earlier the better. I was beta as hell with my ex, but her financial situation and credit score were so fucked going into the relationship that I put my foot down and had a “this is my money, and that is your money” policy from day one. Going through this divorce now I’m constantly relieved not to be one… Read more »

Case
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@Dan Not a christian here myself but we all have a past and kaybe still I can help. For one: what surprises me but both Dalrock and SSM’s blogs make clear from their popularity is a whooi oooole lot of regulars harbor Christian backgrounds. But my word is this. Go to your nearest law library. Ask the librarian where the family law section is. Walk their and gaze on the shelves. Be silent. Breath. Meditate on it a bit. Pull down a volume if it suits you. Page through it. Go home and sleep. Marriage is not Pauline marriage. It… Read more »

Immediate
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Dan, its been pretty well documented in the ‘sphere all the ways in which churches are beta control factories. Not to insult you per se, but yes, they preach stuff that’s pretty opposite of what the red pill expects.

Tilikum
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@leftbelt

you are the perfect example of “the peter principle”

you have risen, probably naturally, to the limit of your competence but without any real understanding of the expert system you navigate. ergo, your usefulness is limited by…..you. your inability to think in complex systems and multiple variable input/outputs relegates you to alpha status only.

you can do it, but don’t understand why.

you have nothing to teach here so…chew on a barrel.

leftbelt
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leftbelt
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No, it’s just that I don’t think in absolutes like the miserable OP who can’t even interact with women anymore, in a healthy manner. Yes, eat the red pill and all that crap. But, don’t shut down entire aspects of life, and become a militant MGTOW extremist. I have a great life, I don’t act like a beta sucker LJBF AFC, but it actually includes women. A lot of these extreme “red pill” types can’t possibly be fun people to be around, and I guarantee they they don’t even get laid, despite all the time obsessing over PUA blogs. Loading...

leftbelt
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And yes, I see the “system” very clearly, and have unplugged from the Matrix more than you’ll know. However, to think ALL women are out to bleed some sucker dry is moronic. Women have their own money, and many women refuse to get married, and some refuse to have kids. (OR even a dog). Try meeting them sometime. They’re out there, if you don’t come across as a bitter psychopath.

Tilikum
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i read you as a huge extrovert, and mainstream redpill is primarily introverts (otherwise nothing would have ever gotten sussed out and documented).

I don’t think you can relate, or maybe even understand the depth at which you cannot relate.

being polarizing is good. for someone to luv ya, somebody has to hate ya

Case
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@Immediate – best wishes on the divorce man.

Immediate
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Thanks. It could be worse. No one cares to hear all my details but the ex was textbook BPD, I was textbook AFC, but I had enough sense to see the writing on the wall early. Learn the laws of your state and protect yourself as best you can is the advice I would offer others. Honestly, considering my state is seen as a very liberal tax happy nanny regime, the laws here are reasonably favorable for me. But that’s largely because I knew my rights and protected myself, somewhat by accident as I mentioned but also by design. Alimony… Read more »

kios
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kios
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Getting involved with women is fine. Few here are suggesting that men avoid women entirely. However, getting married or moving in with them is a huge risk for men that live in the Anglosphere. Yes some women get screwed in divorce now too, but traditionally it has been the man, and the laws probably won’t change until more women suffer the consequences of being in the financially superior position. Regarding NAWALT, it is true,but the problem is with the culture, not the women. The Angl phere breeds defective women with an inflated sense of entitlement. Unloss you are a great… Read more »

BC
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BC
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Unloss you are a great looking man or you have tight game, the cost of dating an average 6 is great compared to what you actually get in return. Yes, this, especially in western(ized) society. In most cases the total benefit simply does not justify the total cost. The only reason it appears so is that the benefits are overstated up front, while the real costs are hidden, downplayed, and either denied or falsely recast as… benefits. And by costs I do not mean only those marriages/families that blow up As for NAWALT, yes, yes, of course NAWALT. However, remember… Read more »

Johnycomelately
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Just wanted to relay a story that happened last week that shows just how fed up men are. A Turkish bus driver in Melbourne asked a female passenger (UMC white mid 30s office worker) to swipe her transit card, she told him to fuck off and that he had no right to speak to women. The driver ignored her and continued to drive on his route. When she got to her seat a fellow passenger told her not to behave like that as the man was from another culture, this infuriated the woman and she prompty got up and scratched… Read more »

Sp5
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Ha, this is a variant of my situation, modified by my advanced age (57) and experience. I’m getting out of a 32 year marriage because wifey found her Alpha boyfriend from 34 years ago and was unhaaapppy. OK, fine. I’ve got money, long term financial security, job prospects, and time. Freedom. I’ve got about ten women on a string. Admitted, they are not 9s, but 4s to 7s from age 28 to 56 within a broad ethnic spectrum, as I am traveling. I like these women. I don’t tell them lies about commitment, although I have said things that I… Read more »

Robert
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Robert
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leftbelt’s a girl. Opens a post with a pejorative. Claims NAWALT. Strings buzzwords together without logical concatenation,

> Try meeting them sometime. They’re out there, if you don’t come across as a bitter psychopath.
… and as usual, the shaming…

More mayo on the next one, hun.

Days of Broken Arrows
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Days of Broken Arrows
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Mark Minter: “I had so hoped that Game was a potential social force. I fear now that it may not be. I believe the reality is that many women wish to be free from men.” They wish to be free only after taking some sort of resource from those men, be it their money, “white knight” helpfulness, ego-boosting, or even sperm. What game and Red Pill thinking does is makes men hip to this game. While it might not be the solution, even a little of it does along way to pulling the rug out from female entitlement. “Man up”… Read more »

leftbelt
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Good article today showing a guy as being the one who is terrible with money. Of course the PUA addicts are too brainwashed to ever be able to process this, so they will ignore it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/27/your-money/financial-opposites-try-to-tackle-finances-together.html?pagewanted=2&src=recg

leftbelt
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Rob, just because a guy is telling you that NAWALT, and that lots of dudes increase their standard of living because of their wife’s huge salary, you have to assume I am some trolling bitch? Think about how brainwashed you are. I can assure you, bro, I am not a chick. In your world, all women are the same. Your logic is weak. I never said to get married, or have kids, or anything. I said there are lots of women who are hot and carry their own weight, and don’t even need your MGTOW tantrums. Like the OP, your… Read more »

leftbelt
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Did you have game when you got married at a later age? 57 – 32 = 35. If so, you should be able to juggle these women with little committment and enjoy a little harem after decades of celibacy. Enjoy, man! And, be up front about fucking multiple women, they will respect your honesty. You’re in a good place, so enjoy the pussy carousel for a few years. No kids! Do not marry!

leftbelt
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“Unless you are a great looking man or you have tight game, the cost of dating an average 6 is great compared to what you actually get in return.”

1) Make her pay at least 1/2 the time
2) Don’t get married to her.
3) Date other women at the same time.

Cost is basically nothing.

itsme
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itsme
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57 – 32 = 35

lolz!

if we didn’t have definitive proof before that you’re a girl, we do now.

Emma the Emo
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I hope refusing to get run over by the male imperative is not the same as being an agent of the female imperative.

Case
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Case
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@Immediate, re: BPD – if its legal where you live start audio recording everything in her company – seriously everything. The trick with making audios work is quickly developing a cataloging system so you know what content is stored in which file. Expect her to do every evil thing. No kidding I just facepalmed b/c I can’t believe this stuff is so real but I lived it … she will not hesitate to accuse you of anything and she will go to unbelievable lengths with the accusations. Don’t back down against anything, but also be calm and don’t shout back… Read more »

Case
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Oh – Immediate, there is a silver lining. Once she discovers just what a bitch-slap you get back from the law that she’s trying to use to rape you, the first time you pull out an audio file on her, and once she looses credibility with the authorities … the behavior does improve and semblances of a reasonable person take over. Problem is: that probably won’t happen until she has first made a trip to the ER faking her injuries or accusing you of causing injuries to the children that she herself caused, and probably not before you must deal… Read more »

Immediate
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Actually we’ve been split up over a year now. This thing is all but over. But its good advice, hopefully there’s guys reading who can use it. I’ve had the false DV accusation before. Had the cops called on me. She hit and scratched her own head, neck and face and said she was going to tell the cops I did it and have me taken to jail. Cops show up, one stays inside to talk to her and other outside with me. I tell him the truth, and he’s standing there looking at me like “yeah right, you piece… Read more »

Anon1234
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I completely disagree with Eastwind about his parents being the only ones to love him for who he truly is. Does he not realize that he reciprocated his parents feelings? If he had children of his own, they too would feel the same way. Its when a game-aware man has kids that you can truly reflect on every woman who has loved you and realize how superficial their love was. It all pales in comparison to the unconditional love of your children. I thank God every day that my ex was so self-centered that she sold me full custody rights… Read more »

Gilligan
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Feminism has had the bizarre, unintended consequence of freeing men.
It will be interesting when women finally realize this.

Sp5
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Sp5
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@Case, Immediate – I would record even if it is not legal – after all, what is likely to be more serious and more likely to be prosecuted – a concocted DV or rape charge or an illegal recording showing innocence from false DV or rape charge?

@leftbelt, it’sme – women in their early and mid 30s are fine with me!!

Case
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Case
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Sp5, you’ll hear no arguments from me on either point. Giligan, kind of flopping between heartiste, Rollo, Dalrock, and SSM lately I’ve been thinking its kinda like “Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall Humpty Dumpty had a great fall” and you know there’s that part about all the kings horses and men… The balance between men and women itself is one thing, the balance necessary to build and maintain a great civilization is quite another. Very declicate indeed. Its like they came at this, figured they could fuck around with it any which way they want and you know…what, consequences?… Read more »

Case
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Case
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BTW, note of warning to younger readers here…
If you follow carefully the discussion between me ane Immediate here you should have noticed something that should really, really trouble you…
1. I said (paraphrase) “oh shit! BPD? Be carefull she will do A, B, C to fuck you” and not even knowing Immediate I gave specifics
2. Immediate, not knowing me, replied with (paraphrase) “no worries she already did” and then gave specifics.

kios
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kios
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‘ I hope refusing to get run over by the male imperative is not the same as being an agent of the female imperative.’

What’s the male imperative to you Emma? How would you define it?

Djeed
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Djeed
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I found a brief essay which relates to this issue that some may find interesting. @Rollo: curious term called “reflective equilibrium” that you might find useful for your posts and dissertations.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/science/explainseverything.pdf

Mark Minter
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Rollo I know you are busy with this book and work. So maybe sometime when you are pressed to put a RationalMale post, maybe use this idea. I was looking for something, that graphic at the top of a post that had a cartoon of a bride at her “you may now kiss the bride moment” and the cartoon bubble or cloud had her thinking “Whew that was easy”. So while I was cruising around, particularly in the posts listed on the One Year link, I started seeing old posts with themes. Jeez I am so surprised at many there… Read more »

Robert
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Robert
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@ Case

“There is a vacuum in the death of monogamy and it is an opening for men or “the masculine imperative”.

Beautifully phrased. I’m stealing that.

eon
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eon
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The fundamental problem with respect to women would not change, even if the structure of this society, and its creators, were to suddenly disappear. This is because the current behavior of women was enabled by nothing more than allowing them to act as their nature has always been. They did not have to first attend Indifference University. Yes, the current level of technology has also enabled this by removing a significant amount of difficulty from life, but this difficulty was just a restraint on what she could do, and had no impact on what she wanted to do. I do… Read more »

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