*scroll slowly
Elle
Imagine you’re at a casual bar and grill. Not a club with pulsing music and overdone HB7’s, but a cool place to hang out and bullshit with friends. There’s a good bar, good food, maybe pool tables and you’re with your regular social circle, but there’s also other groups of people in their own social circles. Very casual, nothing pretentious, you’re in your element and open to the potential for meeting a new girl.
Then this girl is introduced to you by a mutual girl-friend:
Her name is Elle and she’s pretty down to earth, but has a “fun side” to her personality. She wants to shoot pool with you, and after a just a short while you number close closer her. After your 2nd date you f-close and wake up in the morning to what she looks like in a different environment:
Still, not bad. She looks good sans makeup, and helps you get past the morning breath. Minus the make up she loses maybe an SMV point.
Rilee
You meet Rilee at dance club while sarging with four of your boys. She’s hot – body’s tight, has a great smile, flirtatious and while she gives off IOIs you can read with ease you still need tight game since she’s an HB8.5 in a club full of mid 7’s:
Rilee also has a “fun side” but she’s more direct about it than sweet little Elle. While you don’t get a same night lay (SNL) you do get after it on your first ‘real date’. And in the morning you see the ‘real’ Rilee:
You’re beginning to wonder if she had a fake ID to get in the club, and now you’re on the hook for statutory rape. It’s all good though. Also not bad, but she loses maybe 1-2 points considering her first impression.
Zarina
You meet Zarina at local gig your friend’s band is playing at. She’s kind of a wild child, also has a “fun side”, but requires minimal game. Two hours after the show she’s dry humping you in the car. Logistics don’t work out for a SNL, but the Saturday night after the gig she’s riding you to glory:
Zarina doesn’t spend the night so you never get a look at her in the morning, but you happen to run into her coming out of the local Game Stop with the most recent version of Halo:
Woah,..if she hadn’t been wearing the same shirt she wore (briefly) on that Saturday you wouldn’t have know it was the same girl. This is easily a 2 point conversion.
Anikka
Anikka is a rare beauty you met in Estonia while you were writing pick-up guides for guys looking to get laid abroad. She was a difficult notch – no fast times at DC high with Anikka, you had to work your Game for every contingency with her. You learned her language just for the privilege to turn her out.
Your efforts would not go unrewarded, Anikka is indeed a rare talent and you discover her “fun side” after investing more game than you ever thought was within you. After a night of Retzina wine and unmatched sex you awaken to Anikka who has just hung up the phone with her mother after telling her of your impending wedding arrangements:
Yaaagh,..a solid 2-3 point drop!
If you’d like to learn about all these girl’s (and more) “fun side” head on over to this link.
Granted I’m having some much needed fun with this, but the grain of seriousness in it is understanding the bigger picture of how what our perceptions of women are when our familiarity with them isn’t what it was when you met them. Next to posts about the importance of men’s looks and what the definition of Alpha should be, defining what constitutes the qualities an HB9 should have is the most contentious. I’m not saying that (most) of these women are particularly homely sans makeup, but there is a marked drop in SMV potential.
I understand the “well duh? Rollo” factor here, but do you see the woman behind the foundation and mascara when you’re deciding whether she’s worth your tightest Game? Bear in mind, these women are porn stars, would you think they were capable of being so if you saw them with little or no make up eating a burrito supreme at Taco Bell?
try googling sofia vergara without makeup…
the hardest lesson to learn, though, is that the whole female jekyll/hyde paradigm isn’t just on the outside.
i think this is a great exercise, but for some reason it makes me think of b&d’s essay on “how to meet a shy girl”. i mean, i guess the point of this essay, or at least part of it, is for us men to realize how girls have their “going out” face, and their real face. yeah, that’s good to remember. but the deeper meaning is that some women are much more fake than others. there is A LOT to be said in favor of a young, fresh faced, natural beauty, the kind of girl who doesn’t drink too… Read more »
here’s b&d’s post:
http://boldanddetermined.com/2012/11/29/how-to-meet-shy-girls/
The best thing to keep in mind here is that this same ‘ugh’ feeling you get as a man at seeing the two different looks….
Is exactly what a woman feels when she sees a man that has an ‘on and off’ switch for his game because he hasn’t internalized it.
Yup.
That same feeling, with a little bit of revulsion, some surprise, and a question of ‘Was it worth it and do I want to commit to this or am I leaving without looking back?’
Inner, internalized game gents. Best tool you can have.
b&d actually references this same concept. here you go: “Shy girls are often Plain Jane girls. For purposes of this article we will describe beautiful as an 8, 9 or 10. A shy girl that will make a nice girlfriend will fall in the 6 to 7 range. These girls make perfect girlfriends, so don’t shun a 6 or 7 right away. All she needs is something that you love, something that drives you crazy. If her body is good and her face is good and it turns you on then it matters not if she isn’t an 8 or… Read more »
that’s a great point, leap.
[…] this post and this post have just got me thinking about that. if i want a good girl, and i do, i should go after the girls that can get stimulation from the more subtle, more dense, and more complex things in life — like classic literature, for example — and not go after girls that can only get their external stimulation from the more crass, blatant, and obvious things in life — like heroin haha. […]
This post has left such an impact that I have been compelled to write my first comment. This is not new to us – the fact that women use makeup to make themselves appear more attractive than they actually are – but I am pretty blown away in these examples by the sheer extent of what is possible. And since aesthetics are what women (and the majority of men) seem to believe are a female’s majority source of value, this creates a frightening prospect for relationship imbalance for the general male population (its bad enough that a huge % of… Read more »
Actually I found the opposite was true for me. My wife wasn’t more than a 7.5 when we met, and I was rather nonchalant with my affections, but once I found out that she was a conservative girl who loved shooting guns, hated liberals with a passion and loved wearing dresses and being feminine, she went up about a point in my estimation.
She’s an excellent mother to our boy and suggests that when we teach our son to shoot, the family code word for a head-shot zombie will be ‘feminist.’ That gained her another .5 in my book.
Great post, but it doesn’t just stop at make-up. Women have bras that lift up and accentuate their tits, high heel shoes that make their asses look firmer and tighter, and form-fitting “brazierres” – for lack of a better term – that hold in all their mid section fat. But when it all comes off and you see them how they really are and are disappointed, you’re called “shallow”. They ask “Why can’t you love me for who I am???” after they’ve gone waaaay out of their way to misrepresent themselves. We men can’t get away with that shit. @Leap… Read more »
I should add that I once dated a Puerto Rican stripper who was totally batshit crazy (yeah I know), but I stuck with her for a while for 3 reasons:
1. Sex was pretty damn good
2. She was a GREAT cook
3. She was beautiful even w/o makeup
I’m finding that #3 is getting pretty hard to find these days.
@Smalls: “In my mind, there is no equivalent ‘quick-fix’ for men.”
On the contrary, pretending you have money is that equivalent quick-fix.
Ace Haley, Interesting point. I was just discussing this with a friend who made a similar argument, in that strapping on a rolex and some designer clothes is the equivalent male quick fix. I must concede this is something I had overlooked. I was coming from an angle of value in women often and largely being derived by their appearance (which this post showed can be very effectively hacked), whereas the value of men generally being derived by their personality, depth, confidence, which in my mind cannot be faked. However, it is true in saying that similarly to a woman… Read more »
Thank you three times, Rollo.
First, for the overall blog.
Second, for this post.
And third, for not including* some of the more hideous examples.
*: although you did include the link, for which I now need eye bleach.
Thanks to this post, I have just returned from an emergency meeting with R&D. The final product will look like a medium-size wristwatch, and will be able to keep accurate time, date, and year. Wristband comes in stainless steel or faux leather in brown or black. Second hand sweeps, not jerks. The tube leading to the ten milliliter reservoir is guaranteed not to leak, and is flexible enough to not restrict arm movement. Convenient belt holster for the polyresin container is available for a small additional fee. When worn properly and with the safety disengaged, bending the hand ninety degrees… Read more »
This is why my nickname for makeup is “magic powder”.
Makeup, hair extensions, pushup bras, high heels, plastic surgery and other ‘appearance enhancers’ aim to increase physical attractiveness, that is to say to give the appearance of greater genetic fitness. As such, the degree to which these tools must be relied upon is strongly correlated with the true long-term (i.e. mating) attractiveness of the subject. If all you are interested in is the short term (e.g., ONS), then this is not so great an issue, but the more time and resources you intend to invest in a woman, the more important it becomes to confirm her natural health and beauty.… Read more »
I saw this a while ago, but it’s still entertaining. It’s pretty obvious: Woman = sex object. Man = success object. Just like men attempt to ‘fake’ success through various shortcuts, women attempt to ‘fake’ their sex value through makeup, clothing, and augmentation. So what? One thing I learned a while ago: do NOT get with girls who clearly cake on the makeup (you know what I’m talking about). 1) It’s unattractive in its own right when you can tell is severely layered and 2) one can only imagine what she looks like without it, if she ever dares take… Read more »
” She looks good sans makeup, and helps you get past the morning breath.”
Sans makeup??? Dude, that chick is wearing eyeliner, and therefore God only knows what else. That’s *why* she “still looks good”. If you *really* had a pic of her without makeup, you’d be looking at more than one point.
Regarding the idea of a “quick fix for men”, I covered the different factors which women use to find a man attractive over on SSM’s old site. It is gone now, but I restored the post and put it up on my own blog. Link here: https://donalgraeme.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/the-5-vectors-of-female-attraction-a-restoration/ Quick summary: I call the mix of factors LAMPS, for Looks, Athleticism, Money, Power and Status. Each of those “vectors” are the different things a women uses to determine how attractive a man is. As some have suggested, a quick fix is anything which might give off signals that your value in one… Read more »
My question is what is the manly equivalent? We see what they did there. As much as a change in their looks (make up mostly) there is also a change in attitude (more feline, flirty, feminine, sexually aggressive somehow).
In the end, is just GTL the only thing a man needs?
Ok. Just read a lot of comments that dealt with the issue
As if paternity fraud wasn’t enough, we have to deal with real looks fraud as well…make-up must be banned, period.
This is a great post in the argument about applying game and its apparent inauthenticity, to just “being yourself”. I continue to have this debate with my talking lady. She keeps coming back to it calling it, game playing. I shall now see if she is wearing makeup, this is a hamster stopper to be sure. Tim Ferris the author of a 4hourbody, has a really interesting thought on health. Your health is directly related to sperm count, and your ability to reproduce. If you are an AFC with ONEiTis and you aren’t reproducing, as you say Rollo you have… Read more »
I saw this “Pornstars without their makeup” thing a while back. Only 3 or 4 were especially attractive sans makeup. You should do an article on how makeup has effected the SMP.
Lol. That Rilee is a 6.5 at best imo, and thats with makeup. without she is barely a 5.
I once hooked up with this bird that was a solid 7. I hit it at a house party and didn’t see her again until we arranged a.coffee date. Boy did she look different. She was a 5.5 at best.
I used to know a REAL 8.5, not like that mediocre Rilee, that didn’t need makeup to look good; she just had a beautiful face. She was rare though.
@Leap of a beta Yep. When a newbie goes out tossing out openers and negs and teases and is all badass alpha to her, then she flirts with another guy and he gets all insecure or she shit-tests him and he gets offended or flustered, it’s like the chick you’re talking to suddenly turning into one of those makeup-less girls. That same “ah shit I was duped” feeling. — Makeup is magic, I went thru a phase of hooking up with girls in the makeup industry so I saw a lot of the miracles it can perform. The guys who… Read more »
@YaReally about plastic surgery: there was a chinese dude who successfully divorced his wife because she had a tremendous amount of work done and once they had a kid, he initially thought she cheated on him because they looked so ugly. He assumed she had boned an extremely ugly guy and the kid was his and hers. turns out, she had two dozen cosmetic surgeries and the judges ruled that she basically conned him and they dissolved the marriage and slapped her with the costs for the proceedings. i think there was an article in the manosphere about it too.… Read more »
“Would a woman of true aesthetic beauty, in this society, ever be forced in to porn ?”
A super alpha friend of my brother chaperoned a formula 1 driver in Melbourne last week and was shocked at the wall to wall hookers during the event. Every single one was a 10, they were payed 3k an hour, accompanied the geezers all day, days on end and signed secrecy waivers.
So would a true aesthetic beauty turn tricks? If the price is right, you betcha.
Fair point, although Id love to know how much make-up they were caked in…
Props to leap of beta for most insightful comment.
OT question…
Rollo (or anyone with an opinion) … what is the correct age not too early and not too late for me to have my son read RM cover to cover, so to speak?
and they (women) have the audacitiy to get mad on men for learning game??!! who is fake now?!
Jenna approves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpwAtnywTk
“Now remember, there is no cure for ugly, but you can make yourself in to a human optical illusion”
That’s what happens when you base your choice on women purely on looks alone. By the way, all the girls are actually quite pretty without make-up – but one or two they really need to take better care of their skin and junk all that cheap petroleum crap they put on their faces or they will end up looking fifty by the time they are in their 30s.
Wow, that redhead is in porn? Links?
@ Case
You’re a dad then. What’s your thoughts?
@ Case, look man, I don’t know how old your son is, but speaking for myself, I wish I knew the red pill knowledge on Rollo’s site back when I was at least 10 or 12 years old. I’m 35 now. Had I known then what I know now, I would be a much different man living a better life than now.
^^Agree Fred. I wish i knew more about it at a younger age too–i’m also 35–but what can you do? Part of the reason i was a little slow getting to it is because i lived in Greece for a while, and in Greece the women often approach you if they are interested and they know how to escalate, so there was no reason for me to read all these books and websites about game. Of course there is more to the red pill than just game, but i think the fact that it was easier for me to get… Read more »
Case, there’s probably not going to be much traction for exotic ideas like “girls are not in control of their actions” and “never beg” until .. the day his first girlfriend dumps on him, out of the blue. I’d keep (very discreet) tabs on that sitch, it’s not like he’s going to tell you if he’s even got one, or anything at all, if experience is any guide. Overt interest on a father’s part is guaranteed to make him clam up tighter than an IRA man in an Army jail. A light touch and humor is helpful. Look for mood… Read more »
So for girls who actually want to marry the lesson is don’t wear to much make up because you will pull guys (with your make up face) who would never marry your real face.
“That’s what happens when you base your choice on women purely on looks alone. By the way, all the girls are actually quite pretty without make-up – but one or two they really need to take better care of their skin and junk all that cheap petroleum crap they put on their faces or they will end up looking fifty by the time they are in their 30s.” I would go back and read YaReally’s comment. I had wanted to comment on an old RationalMale theme about the reality between a man and a woman is that man is actually… Read more »
I also continue to hold that the best way to fight and overcome OneItis and to make adult and mature decisions is to best understand that you are making choices and taking actions as the result of biological processes. And the more you understand that they are truly, and I emphasize truly, subconscious, physical actions, and you are responding to purely biological wants and needs that percolate up into your emotions, and emotions drive rational, meaning judgement based, actions as much or more than any “conscious” thought or reasoning. So if you understand the dopamine causes the “feeling” of love,… Read more »
You know, my day is always a little brighter after reading posts by Mr Minter…
I know I’ve brought it up before, but I think a great way to introduce a kid to the Red Pill is the movie “The Last American Virgin”. At the end of the movie, put your arm around his shoulder and tell him that THAT’S how it really is. It’ll save him more heartache than you can imagine. Age, depends on the kid. I’d do it as soon as I get that first inkling he’s seeing girls as something more than annoyances intruding on the fun he has with his other male friends. If you sense any puppy love brewing… Read more »
Always a fun read.
http://www.salon.com/2013/03/31/my_year_on_match_com/
And a good watch.
I think the Republican Party should incorporate Red Pill ideas at the expense of all other core Republican values. I don’t think they can win if they don’t.
“So if you understand the dopamine causes the “feeling” of love, then you can respond to those feelings in, hopefully, a more rational way, and hence, be a more Rational Male.” Yep. One of the major classic PUA rules of keeping a fuckbuddy relationship casual is to only see her once a week at the most. This isn’t just to keep the girl from getting attached, it’s to keep the PUA from getting attached as well, because we understand we’re just as susceptible to our emotions as anyone else and, much like a person trying to stick to a diet… Read more »
Holy crap! What a difference makeup does for a woman! The last one, Annika, especially does not look like the same person. Thanks for posting this. This was a great article.
@Exeter – yes, am a dad. I think one is just too young to have a remote understanding of game. The other, around 10, is bounding up against it, but something almost ham-handed like having him read this site wouldn’t make any sense in his world. I feel sure it’s somewhere between 10 and 16, where if you started at 16 … probably too late to avoid some damage, but all at once works with nothing at all that you pass on to kids, so wouldn’t work with game either. @Tam the Bam – you sound like you’ve done this?… Read more »
This from Dayo Wong (Hong Kong comedian): “Ladies, do you understand? If I still recognize you without your make-up, then that IS make-up; but if I don’t recognize you [without your make-up], that’s impersonation!” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wObdH_i3IbU In Cantonese. Quote is from 1:05 to 1:19 (note: a great pun between “make-up” and “impersonation” has been lost in translation). The clip itself starts with Wong saying that “make-up is how women tell lies with their looks”, eventually leading up to his “confession” that he used to believe that women had NO armpit hair, followed by a hilarious minute on their practice of armpit-hair… Read more »
@ mark, case: It’s gonna be very hard for the GOP to incorporate red pill ideas when they’re still solidly blue pill in regard to politics. The Democrats have no understanding whatsoever of human nature in the policies they advocate, but they’re very red pill in regards to how they manipulate the press and public. The GOP gets people in their policies but are at best beta-overlords in how they campaign and present themselves. On how the Dems do it right: http://alphaisassumed.wordpress.com/2013/02/05/president-edward-cullen-2/ On how the GOP does it wrong: http://alphaisassumed.wordpress.com/2013/02/06/the-wrong-kind-of-assholes/ The GOP won’t take the lead on men’s rights (or… Read more »
I went to college with a girl who part timed with the Ford Agency. I never knew until one day before class, she’s reading through Vogue and points to this picture, a full page spread and says, “I don’t like this picture. it makes my hands look huge. What do you think?” She was a girl-next-door type but a solid 8 with a perfect face and really nice hair, but in Vogue with the Illusion Factory working full time on her, of course she looked like a 10. You never know though until you see a girl with the makeup… Read more »
The sphere is going mainstream:
http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2013/04/03/huffpost-live-59-minutes/
Funny stuff – Meet the “New” Natural Barbe
http://shine.yahoo.com/healthy-living/meet-the-new-natural-barbie-173422198.html
I wonder if they went “full bush” with this model instead of the bald eagle look of the past?
Rollo responded on another blog “Clinical Psychologist and Relationship Expert? About what I’ve come to expect.” As I research topics, particularly using Evo Psych keywords, I can bump into sites with “scholarly” repositories of papers, thesis, articles, and when you see the titles that have the having the above words in the “keyword list” or the “of interest list”, it is a fucking joke, literally bullshit fodder for girl mags articles. I sometimes wonder just where do these quacks and frauds get the balls to call themselves “clinical”. You can almost twist an old joke around: A man is having… Read more »
A college age girl who babysat for my kids is a classic example of this. When she took the time to do her make up, she was remarkably photogenic. If you saw a headshot, you’d call her a solid 9. Then, she went through a bad patch with her boyfriend, and stopped using makeup for a month. I swear to God, this girl had the plainest face you’ve ever seen. She had no more facial features than little orphan Annie. Very symmetrical, fine featured, no man jaw. But blank! I couldn’t believe my eyes. Women can paint whatever they want… Read more »
[…] The power of make-up. […]
There is a chick on page three that actually looks better before the makeup.
Pale white girls who are hot with make-up aren’t at the top of my list because of their tendency to be plain albinos without make-up. The difference is startling. I prefer ethnic girls with natural color who use make-up to enhance their natural look rather than as a necessary total-makeover mask. A few of the porn actresses look about the same, just smoothed over a bit from the before to after. A few go from cute to porn-hot, which I’m cool with. For most of them, the difference is jarring. My biggest disappointment is Allie Haze. I was a fan,… Read more »
Case, Regarding the best age to introduce your son to RM and the red pill, my advice is to lay a general foundation of positive masculine values before he hits puberty and gets interested in girls. Train him to trust your judgement as a Man that will survive his passage into teenage years. Track your son’s interest in girls. When he is interested in girls, don’t throw everything at him before he has a baseline made from 1st hand experience. Don’t keep the red pill a secret, but my advice is to take care not too get too far ahead… Read more »
[…] In males there are two competing sexual appetites for the “hot” and for the “cute”. The difference is well illustrated by these two pictures from Rollo’s: […]
All of them save Rilee look pretty bad with makeup. Elle and Zanika are very attractive without makeup though. Rilee looks okay both with and without makeup. Anikka looks bad both with and without.
I don’t agree with Rollo’s assessment of Zarena without make-up. Her drop-off with make-up removed is about the same as Elle’s drop-off. Both girls are still good-looking without the glop.
Rilee has the biggest difference – she goes from plain to cute in makeup. Annika has something off about her even in makeup – she’s just not that good-looking, though the makeup does help. Elle is pretty hot without the makeup, and the makeup just makes her more presentable, not hotter. Zarina is more difficult to judge, but the camera angle is helping her as much as the makeup – if you saw her in real life, you’d see her nose at both angles, for better or worse.
But maybe I’m just not as easily fooled by makeup.
Yeah, this is what I would feel if I found out that the guy I’m interested in is a “gamer”
That is the reason I don’t wear a lot of make-up, and I don’t sleep with a man very early. Let the gamers ween themselves out early and be left with the nice guy who likes the fresh face.
I have noooooo interest in running to the bathroom to rush on make-up for the rest of my natural life…
Elle is good looking? Jesus! I’m no looker myself but i wouldn’t touch her.
Zarina is the only one i’d bang of that group.
women are walking optical illusions
[…] did a fun post a while back called Show and Tell where I compared the pictures of made up and non-made up porn stars to illustrate the fantasy image […]
[…] did a fun post a while back called Show and Tell where I compared the pictures of made up and non-made up porn stars to illustrate the fantasy image […]
They can’t fake a nice body. All women look plainer without makeup and I don’t find any of these women un attractive.
If what’s below the neck is an 8 it’s easier to accept the SMV drop that occurs when she’s au natural.