The New Thin

new_thin

My Reddit Q&A on Monday generated a lot of good questions:

Ever notice on Facebook, when ever an average/fugly/fat chick post’s her picture you have like ten women (only women) chime in with their comments under the picture saying stuff like “HOT!” “you’re so pretty!” “damn you look good” when in fact she isn’t?!

Are women trying to make their not so attractive friend feel better about herself?! Or is there another scheme involved here of setting the bar low in order to boast their own attractive scale up.

I see, hear and read this constantly. What we’re observing however is a carefully constructed feminine social convention, and a feminine-combative one at that. By tacitly reinforcing the “good looks” of an obviously overweight woman with positive compliments, the latent message is that she doesn’t need to improve her looks to attract men. The truth of course is that she could be semi-fuckable after dropping another 15 pounds, but in telling her she’s hot ‘as-is’ the idea, in the form of an encouraging compliment, is to get her to relax and stay fat. Thus the complimenter(s) simultaneously feel relaxed in their fat.

It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.

I can remember experiencing this firsthand long before the advent of social media. In the days I worked in the resort casino industry, I was in the lunchroom with the largely (heh) female advertising department and the conversation came up about how some woman in accounting was “too thin” or she need to gain some weight. I emphatically disagreed; I knew the woman they were going on about and she could’ve lost 10 pounds and still been overweight. The ladies lost their shit when I said she could stand to lose a few pounds and hit the gym more often. The hens practically pounded the table with their fists and the accusations of misogyny, and the old chestnuts about men’s “shallow” desires for the physical all flew wild and furious.

You see all the women at the table were as heavy if not heavier than the woman in question. I had insulted the herd by association.

The funny thing about body image is that most people tend to judge obesity based on their own physique. If you’re overweight and your regular peer group is fatter than you, you tend to think you’re “normal”. It’s similar to eating a donut from a box someone’s brought to work for all to enjoy. If one person is eating a donut it tacitly gives others “permission” to enjoy one too.

I was once at a distillery in Panama with a group of Dutch people I work with and a stunningly attractive Panamanian secretary asked me if I was Dutch. I told her, no, I was American and she said “oh, you don’t ‘look’ American. I laughed at this for a minute and asked her what an American ‘looks’ like and she said, “well, they’re all fat.” I took it as a compliment, but I had to agree with her.

Books and Covers

You can’t judge a book by it’s cover, but more often than not, it’s a good indicator of what the story’s about. An attractive cover should make the reader want to read it.

Women have far more rigid prerequisites for what makes an acceptable man for an LTR than men do for women. Women base their estimate of a man on his confidence, status, affluence, looks, humor, intellect, creativity, ambition, determination, decisiveness,..and the list goes on. Men’s requisites for intimacy? Looks and sexual availability, that’s it. Beyond that, you can make a case for any ephemeral quality that convinces you the girl’s worth your long term investment, but if she’s not hot enough to keep your physical interest, you’re going to look elsewhere to make up for it.

Yet what is the single most common shaming tactic women use for men? Painting them as ‘shallow‘ for requiring her to maintain a good shape and be sexually available. Men have far too much on the line in the long term NOT to be concerned with demanding the highest standard from a woman for an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means. For all of the personal investment a man must make in himself to meet women’s ‘attraction prerequisites’, it only makes pragmatic sense that his (physical) standards for women be strict and exact.

It’s really up to you to make the judgement call, but by no means should you allow accusations of superficiality influence your decision in that. As a Man, you are well within your rights to expect a maintained physique from a woman, considering the far greater sacrifices she expects from you. Would you leave her if she got fat? Damn right you would. Would she leave you if you went beta-listless-unemployed-alcoholic? Damn right she would.

All that said, what it really comes down to is the reason why this girl lost the weight. There are plenty of fresh divorcees frenetically working out at Planet Fitness in the hopes of reconditioning themselves enough to attract another husband – only to fatten up again once she finds the guy who “loves her for who she is”. Women who once were fat, who slim down are prone to this. That’s not to say there aren’t women who make a definitive lifestyle change and go from being a walrus to a Fitness America Pageant contestant and parley that into modeling or  personal training career, but these are the most rare and notable exceptions.

I should also point out that it’s a uniquely White Knight habit to publicly defend a woman’s body image insecurities in order to get the identification / affirmation strokes they believe endears them to women. I hear these guys parrot back the same lines women self-affirm when talking about their body shape or trying to disqualify a sexual competitor, in an effort to be more ‘like’ the women they hope to get with. The idea is that they believe they’ll be rewarded for taking the “fat acceptance, love-who-you-are” tact and be perceived as more modern or up with the right conventions, and that guy’s who actually have the temerity to say they prefer a tight body are the neanderthals – again, to disqualify their own sexual competitors.

The Mechanics of Sexual Selection

Whenever the ‘fat is OK’ debate pops up all it does is serve to further illustrate yet another feminine social convention. All of these conventions are sociological and psychological methodologies with the latent purpose of securing breeding opportunities for less than physically optimal women.

  • Point 1: Women know on an instinctual, biological level that, overall, men generally base their breeding selection on the physical conditions of a female. Hips to waist ratio, breast size, facial symmetry, fullness of lips, youthful appearance, etc.

  • Point 2: In order to compete with similar women in meeting the physical standards of a given demographic of men, women must create physical methods in order to compensate for this deficit. Thus they have make up, cosmetic surgery, high-heels, hair dye, etc.

  • Point 3: Failing this, sociological and psychological constructs are necessary to ‘level the playing field’ in the sexual marketplace. Thus, fat, out of shape women attempt to convince men to feel ashamed for wanting a physically superior female by converting that desire into shame. It becomes superficiality. Likewise, older women who’s sexual marketability wanes with every passing year, must create social constructs that praises the sexual prowess of older women.

Women have been trying to convince themselves for centuries that there ought to be more to sexual attraction for men than physical appeal, and for centuries this method has been thwarted by simple male biology. Rather than play the game better, they attempt to change the rules of the game to better fit their own limitations in a variety of ways.

The problem with the idea that “it’s what’s inside that counts” is that it’s what’s outside that arouses. All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.

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Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

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M3
M3
8 years ago

Kate: Not to belabor a point but i do want to point out i only have high school ed. I have zero post secondary in me. I also didn’t go into debt learning BS but that’s another topic. Yet out of all my friends, a majority come to me to talk about philosophy, the meaning of life, introspection, geopolitics, the economy, political discourse, debates about terrorism vs. hegemony… etc.. I would hope simply talking with me over these here interwebs should give you cause to understand education isn’t an end all be all and you may be discarding many wonderful… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

Sorry if I’m threadjacking… I’ve thought about this female fat problem a lot. It’s actually a very simple problem with a very simple solution. When women are near their peak of physical growth, their muscles are essentially at their peak, it’s all downhill from there. All women’s fitness is geared towards repetitive light-load cardiovascular excercise. Women seem absolutely anti-free-weights. Even the women who love to stay fit that I’ve known mostly refuse to pump weights of any kind. This is backwards and actually CAUSES women to get fat later in life. All of us eventually become more sedentary than we… Read more »

Kate Kendall
8 years ago

This is so hilarious! Seems like I’ve been mixed up in something! Thanks for the compliments @FuriousFerret, if they are ones! I’m with a lovely guy called Mat but am glad I’ve stumbled on this interesting post and always feel for my single friends.

Kate
8 years ago

Hi “other” Kate 🙂 I recognize you. You’re the Autralian geisha!

FuriousFerret
FuriousFerret
8 years ago

Look you guys look the same alright.

Same facial structure, nose and forehead.

I searched Geisha Kate and your site was the third one down.

How many blonde chicks that write about geishas are there in this world?

Ton
Ton
8 years ago

kate, you used the word beneath, not the phrase romantically uninterested in

A world of difference between the two.

Kate
8 years ago

Well, we now know there are at least two of us. No biggie. Hey, everybody, I found FuriousFerret! 🙂

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_355/12323441344bbo4M.jpg

@Ton: Yes, I did use that word in quotes to indicate the levels that were the topic of conversation. Yes, there is a big difference.

3rd Millenium Men
8 years ago

@Trini

Your poor brother. Is there something wrong with him that your wife would subject him to that? Or is she just that completely clueless about the dating market?

trackback

[…] did with men, you begin to remove the very rationale for X to either exist or partake. This dynamic can be seen in every conversation in the sphere where the women is strong/proud/independent and does…. Thus, his status in her life simply becomes that of a to-do list checkmark, a warm bodied dildo, a […]

Katie
Katie
8 years ago

Haha I read the first part of it and laughed. I won’t comment on the rest if your theories or whatever but this stuff about Facebook is just not even true. I’m a girl and I just commented on my friends Facebook photo like yesterday. She’s not a ten or whatever but she’s my friend and she had taken a nice picture of herself and compared to how she normally looks it was a nice representation. So because she’s one of my best friends and because I love her and miss her and view her not just as a piece… Read more »

Jeremy
8 years ago

@Katie Haha I read the first part of it and laughed. I won’t comment on the rest if your theories or whatever but this stuff about Facebook is just not even true. It seems reasonable that this would sound strange and even humorous to anyone who hasn’t thought or considered things from the viewpoint offered here. That’s no surprise. The fact that humor is found in it does not impugn the perspective. Certainly equality/voting/education for black slaves seemed humorous to the slave owners in the south before emancipation and later equal rights. She’s not a ten or whatever but she’s… Read more »

trackback

[…] something more at work?  I suspect it does.  Notice the phenomenon Rollo brilliantly describes wherein women encourage each other to feel great about bodies that shouldn’t necessarily […]

Augustina
8 years ago

I constantly emailed this blog post page to all my friends, since
if like to read it then my links will too.

Ajax Murgatroyd
Ajax Murgatroyd
8 years ago

A young, attractive female friend of mine was yammering on about fat acceptance and “lookism” (*facepalm* to the latter) a few days ago. I told her that the fat acceptance meme was just a weak attempt to guilt-trip guys that she doesn’t want to fuck into fucking her fat friends. When she tried to protest this, I told her that she needed to make a list of all the fat guys she’d fucked before she could say anything else about it. She, predictably, changed the subject.

LiveFearless
7 years ago

TIMING. Suzanne Venker just asked about this.

Titanic
Titanic
7 years ago

One theme of this comment thread seems to be “men tend to inspire each other to improve themselves, while women tend to tell each other it’s ok not to improve themselves.”

My ev. psych speculation is that the hunt, being a non zero-sum game, was a place where shared in your fellow man’s success. While the campsite, where the women and children were, was a mostly zero-sum game, focused on dividing what the men brought back from the hunt.

Glenna
7 years ago

Hello there! Would you mind if I share your blog with my
twitter group? There’s a lot of people that I think would really enjoy your content.
Please let me know. Cheers

LiveFearless
7 years ago

@Erudite Knight writes Being skinny takes EFFORT So true. I lost 86 lbs in less than six months some years back. This was not by some kind of luck. And whenever anyone mentions genetics, I have to point out that I’m the only person in my family that accomplished having the low body fat I enjoyed until the tragedy that occurred this year. When I lost that body fat, it took living completely new habits, then sticking with them every day. It’s a lifestyle that most people, sadly, will not choose to live. Data shows that most people, at least… Read more »

Jessica
Jessica
6 years ago

Thank god some male is pointing out the stupidity of the Fat Acceptance Movement. As a woman discrediting the movement, you get pushed out of the herd.

Driver
Driver
6 years ago

“All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.” It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works out, eats rights and takes care of his body but they fully expect men to love them (or be attracted to them) for “who they are” – thin or big. You would think that these overweight women would get the memo by now but women (and more of them) keep getting bigger each year. I’ve… Read more »

M3
M3
6 years ago

@ Driver “All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.” Ya, i get a sense every time i see a big feminist spouting all this ‘i love my body, i feel great about myself, im sexy big and beautiful’ etc… i get the sense they hope if they say it enough times – it will feel real. Sort of like enforced cognitive dissonance. “It’s funny how women are very attracted to a guy who works… Read more »

Driver
Driver
6 years ago

@M3 Good points. We just need to remind women that they are hypocrites when it comes to them objectifying men. We need to remind them how they hoot and holler at men but at the same time shame men when they do it to women. This move will be the only move that really gets some attention (spotlight) on the subject. Women live in a bubble. It’s been accepted and it’s been going on for so long that it’s “business as usual”. More men need to call the action out whenever women try to shame men for it. They’re not… Read more »

trackback

[…] it’s all good. I made the comment that this type of SMV disqualification is comparable to fat girls telling slightly less fat girls they look OK being fat on FaceBook to hold them in place and hinder any ideas of attempting to improve their […]

Dancer CJ
Dancer CJ
3 years ago

interestingly, how the fat thing works, and yes, a dancer size 10-12 would appeal to me most given the choice. Interestingly however, people mention that men who are overweight aren’t seen as desirable, yet I see more overweight men actually with women. If anything, I don’t believe that men being toned, in shape are necessarily seen as more desired. And there is a perpetuated myth that men who dance are seen as attractive. I’ve been in shape for many years, more of the dancer build with gym training (and of course from dancing) 29″ waistline, and ive always maintained some… Read more »

Dancer CJ
Dancer CJ
3 years ago

Interesting discussion between some of the members and Kate. infact, reading through the latter comments by Kate – this has given me some ideas as I’m in the process of writing a novel. I have a fictional female character who becomes stranded in an amazon – reading kate “The truth is, I’m not anyone special to those who don’t know me, like family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, community members. This is how the world works” – this is quite philosophical actually. id envisioned my novel female character at age 34 pushing 35. a dancer. (main character is also an aspiring dancer… Read more »

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