My Reddit Q&A on Monday generated a lot of good questions:
Ever notice on Facebook, when ever an average/fugly/fat chick post’s her picture you have like ten women (only women) chime in with their comments under the picture saying stuff like “HOT!” “you’re so pretty!” “damn you look good” when in fact she isn’t?!
Are women trying to make their not so attractive friend feel better about herself?! Or is there another scheme involved here of setting the bar low in order to boast their own attractive scale up.
I see, hear and read this constantly. What we’re observing however is a carefully constructed feminine social convention, and a feminine-combative one at that. By tacitly reinforcing the “good looks” of an obviously overweight woman with positive compliments, the latent message is that she doesn’t need to improve her looks to attract men. The truth of course is that she could be semi-fuckable after dropping another 15 pounds, but in telling her she’s hot ‘as-is’ the idea, in the form of an encouraging compliment, is to get her to relax and stay fat. Thus the complimenter(s) simultaneously feel relaxed in their fat.
It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.
I can remember experiencing this firsthand long before the advent of social media. In the days I worked in the resort casino industry, I was in the lunchroom with the largely (heh) female advertising department and the conversation came up about how some woman in accounting was “too thin” or she need to gain some weight. I emphatically disagreed; I knew the woman they were going on about and she could’ve lost 10 pounds and still been overweight. The ladies lost their shit when I said she could stand to lose a few pounds and hit the gym more often. The hens practically pounded the table with their fists and the accusations of misogyny, and the old chestnuts about men’s “shallow” desires for the physical all flew wild and furious.
You see all the women at the table were as heavy if not heavier than the woman in question. I had insulted the herd by association.
The funny thing about body image is that most people tend to judge obesity based on their own physique. If you’re overweight and your regular peer group is fatter than you, you tend to think you’re “normal”. It’s similar to eating a donut from a box someone’s brought to work for all to enjoy. If one person is eating a donut it tacitly gives others “permission” to enjoy one too.
I was once at a distillery in Panama with a group of Dutch people I work with and a stunningly attractive Panamanian secretary asked me if I was Dutch. I told her, no, I was American and she said “oh, you don’t ‘look’ American. I laughed at this for a minute and asked her what an American ‘looks’ like and she said, “well, they’re all fat.” I took it as a compliment, but I had to agree with her.
Books and Covers
You can’t judge a book by it’s cover, but more often than not, it’s a good indicator of what the story’s about. An attractive cover should make the reader want to read it.
Women have far more rigid prerequisites for what makes an acceptable man for an LTR than men do for women. Women base their estimate of a man on his confidence, status, affluence, looks, humor, intellect, creativity, ambition, determination, decisiveness,..and the list goes on. Men’s requisites for intimacy? Looks and sexual availability, that’s it. Beyond that, you can make a case for any ephemeral quality that convinces you the girl’s worth your long term investment, but if she’s not hot enough to keep your physical interest, you’re going to look elsewhere to make up for it.
Yet what is the single most common shaming tactic women use for men? Painting them as ‘shallow‘ for requiring her to maintain a good shape and be sexually available. Men have far too much on the line in the long term NOT to be concerned with demanding the highest standard from a woman for an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means. For all of the personal investment a man must make in himself to meet women’s ‘attraction prerequisites’, it only makes pragmatic sense that his (physical) standards for women be strict and exact.
It’s really up to you to make the judgement call, but by no means should you allow accusations of superficiality influence your decision in that. As a Man, you are well within your rights to expect a maintained physique from a woman, considering the far greater sacrifices she expects from you. Would you leave her if she got fat? Damn right you would. Would she leave you if you went beta-listless-unemployed-alcoholic? Damn right she would.
All that said, what it really comes down to is the reason why this girl lost the weight. There are plenty of fresh divorcees frenetically working out at Planet Fitness in the hopes of reconditioning themselves enough to attract another husband – only to fatten up again once she finds the guy who “loves her for who she is”. Women who once were fat, who slim down are prone to this. That’s not to say there aren’t women who make a definitive lifestyle change and go from being a walrus to a Fitness America Pageant contestant and parley that into modeling or personal training career, but these are the most rare and notable exceptions.
I should also point out that it’s a uniquely White Knight habit to publicly defend a woman’s body image insecurities in order to get the identification / affirmation strokes they believe endears them to women. I hear these guys parrot back the same lines women self-affirm when talking about their body shape or trying to disqualify a sexual competitor, in an effort to be more ‘like’ the women they hope to get with. The idea is that they believe they’ll be rewarded for taking the “fat acceptance, love-who-you-are” tact and be perceived as more modern or up with the right conventions, and that guy’s who actually have the temerity to say they prefer a tight body are the neanderthals – again, to disqualify their own sexual competitors.
The Mechanics of Sexual Selection
Whenever the ‘fat is OK’ debate pops up all it does is serve to further illustrate yet another feminine social convention. All of these conventions are sociological and psychological methodologies with the latent purpose of securing breeding opportunities for less than physically optimal women.
- Point 1: Women know on an instinctual, biological level that, overall, men generally base their breeding selection on the physical conditions of a female. Hips to waist ratio, breast size, facial symmetry, fullness of lips, youthful appearance, etc.
- Point 2: In order to compete with similar women in meeting the physical standards of a given demographic of men, women must create physical methods in order to compensate for this deficit. Thus they have make up, cosmetic surgery, high-heels, hair dye, etc.
- Point 3: Failing this, sociological and psychological constructs are necessary to ‘level the playing field’ in the sexual marketplace. Thus, fat, out of shape women attempt to convince men to feel ashamed for wanting a physically superior female by converting that desire into shame. It becomes superficiality. Likewise, older women who’s sexual marketability wanes with every passing year, must create social constructs that praises the sexual prowess of older women.
Women have been trying to convince themselves for centuries that there ought to be more to sexual attraction for men than physical appeal, and for centuries this method has been thwarted by simple male biology. Rather than play the game better, they attempt to change the rules of the game to better fit their own limitations in a variety of ways.
The problem with the idea that “it’s what’s inside that counts” is that it’s what’s outside that arouses. All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.
The main points of most things women verbalize seem to revolve around: 1. Project, “I actually mean this about myself, but I’m saying it about you.” 2. Sexual Market defense, “Oh, you’re not fat, you’re fluffy!” — Basically the point you made here, Rollo. 3. Shit-Testing defense, “I better make sure you’re not a doormat” Lately, it’s been harder and harder to even carry on conversations of any merit with women, only because it seems that even the nicest ones are falling prey to the current social imperative hammering them from every angle (work, friends, TV, music, etc). I should… Read more »
Being skinny takes EFFORT. Girls are inherently much more lazy than guys, so anything they can do to lower the bar they will.
Thus we have things like this where fatties are ‘hot!’
and ‘beauty is only skin deep’.
Because if males dont judge on looks, that takes a LOT of the effort away women would otherwise have to do.
The mirror is guys who are too nice, too eager and too suplicating asking hot women to love them for who they are on the inside, without mustering what it takes to trigger her attraction.
Yes they have 467 more buttons to push vs. a man’s 2 buttons.. but the point is made. Attraction isn’t a choice, and telling me i’m wrong for not being attracted to rolls of cookie dough popping out through the spandex is not a design flaw in me.
Men never sound so happy as when they guiltily confess to me that looks do matter to them and I say, “That isn’t shallow; that’s reality.”
Inside joke.. one time before i obliterated my friendship with FWB, i recall hearing her tell a really big friend of ours that she looked uber pretty in her new haircut. Later on her balcony i asked her “look, i don’t want to be mean, but you didn’t really mean that did you? yeah her *hair* looks fine, but i wouldn’t say she looks pretty on the whole if you get my meaning..” she looked at me like i killed a puppy. “what do you mean.. she’s a very pretty girl, big eyes, beautiful face, awesome smile…” i interjected “and… Read more »
My mom has gained a lot of weight and always tells me I look too ripped and veiny lol
I see no problem with trying to become/stay fit and attractive, either to attract a mate or to make the one you have happier. I recently went from being 172 lbs to being 161 lbs, and hope to lose another 5 or so in the next 2 weeks. Why? Because my lover asked me to, and did it in such a way that it made me see I could be much more attractive for him. I’ll agree with another point in this article: Other females don’t like it when you lose weight/improve your looks. I already don’t have female friendships… Read more »
For every red pill guy who stands his ground regarding not feeling attracted to overweight women, there are armies of gullible betas willing to kiss every roll of fat peeking out of the lycra.
The fat acceptance movement is really the fat WOMEN’s acceptance movement.
There are no women beating down fat men’s doors demanding to date and marry them.
There are no women talking about how fat men should be accepted “for who they are”.
Good for you, Anna! I have a friend who is finally devoted to losing weight and I am VERY excited for her too 🙂 The people remarking about your weight loss (if it is actually warranted as opposed to someone already very slender saying they want to lose weight) are showing their insecurity. More slender women does mean more competition, but, if you’ve got other good traits besides looks, why should one be intimidated another is making a healthy decision to lose weight.
Again, yaya you!
er, that was supposed to be “yay” as opposed to the “yaya” sisterhood
Rollo , I can´t emphasize enough how thankful I am for enriching my knowledge of the world an psychology of women. A million thanks . Reading your blog I felt like bitterly enlightened , needless to say I downloaded almost all of your posts. Also , esponding to your readers puts you above the majority of the blogosphere. Sharing such knowledge for free for the sake of manhood is truly a holy thing. I´m 19 and at the beginning of my way in life. What is the secret to keep a woman with you for a lifetime ? You briefly… Read more »
Women also seem incapable of realizing that there’s some tradeoff between attractiveness and sexual availability. They seem to think that not only should men be attracted to a fat woman, but they should also settle for less and less interesting intimacy from the fat woman should the fat woman say so. This is like trying to steal your cake and insist that it turn itself into apple pie before eating it. In plain english, many men will overlook the fact that you’re fat so long as you’re willing to try anything sexually and be available for sex all the time.… Read more »
“If one person is eating a donut it tacitly gives others ‘permission to enjoy one too.” The flip-side of this is that if you refuse the donut, you’re “shaming” everybody who does have one. I get this all the time at work because I won’t eat the donut. They’re mad at me but then I catch them checking me out all the time. Go figure. I found this article hilarious: http://shine.yahoo.com/love-sex/one-woman-fat-one-man-thin-could-rocky-195800204.html The wise folks who conducted the study examine every reason for the relational tension except the obvious one: Men find fat women unattractive. Don’t let anybody ever tell you… Read more »
@M3
Whenever I see a fat chick I see my old self. That plus their fat revolts me.
Skinny ladies for the most part are more fun to talk to an approach anyway. Most of your overweight women have the bad attitude to go along with it. If there’s a segment of the population that can’t afford to be a pain personality-wise it’s obese women.
I had a similar conversation with my wife as M3.LOL. My wife and her mom was trying to set my brother in law up with an overweight friend of their family a few years ago. Just a couple weeks ago a conversation lead us to talking about why her brother did not choose the overweight girl. I remember him saying to me and another guy that he just can’t get with a big chick like that. I was telling my wife that physically appearance had alot to do with her brother not getting with that girl. The first thing my… Read more »
Obesity seems to the number one plague on the developed first world nations. It probably causes more harm and damage than any other problem that we have encountered in the west simply because it attacks our very foundation. GSP said a quote that I stuck with me: “”The only reason it is good to lift weights, to do bench press, and stuff like that, I believe, is because it is going to make me more marketable, and to keep myself looking more symmetric, with a better image… Which is very important, because if you look good, you feel good, and… Read more »
@taterearl who said “Most of your overweight women have the bad attitude to go along with it. If there’s a segment of the population that can’t afford to be a pain personality-wise it’s obese women.” This is so true. I find that though I am disgusted by fat (and having been a former fatty myself), there are a couple of obese women in my office complex who are pleasant, feminine, friendly and smiling all the time. Other than the fat, they also happen to be my type (brunettes). I think they are great and if I were on the prowl… Read more »
I’ve noticed that “differently-sized” women fall into two camps. There’s the voraciously bitchy type who insists that everybody love her FOR WHO SHE IS! and almost dares you to notice how obese she is.
And then there’s the way-too-nice ultra-clingy kind, usually talkative and way too liberal with compliments. She seems to be begging everybody to like her with every statement and act.
And if guys need another visial.
Learning game is like a woman losing weight. It’s going to be a bitter pill for both to take when you realize where you are at…it’ll take time, lots of roadblocks and struggles, doing stuff you don’t want to do but have to do, and once you get to where you want to be the world is your oyster.
I enjoy the flipside of the above-stated fb convention, which is girls telling me I look too ripped and I shouldn’t get any bigger. All the easier to identify competition anxiety.
Sidebar: rollo will you consider writing about the manti t’eo Internet girlfriend hoax? Love to hear your take on it
Rollo… Thank you for making a post about something interesting. If I had to read the words “feminine imperative” or “hamster” many more times I was going to cancel my subscription.
[Yeah, me too.]
@Mucius scaevola
I enjoy the flipside of the above-stated fb convention, which is girls telling me I look too ripped and I shouldn’t get any bigger. All the easier to identify competition anxiety.
–> I have actually seen women say this. However, I’ve never seen women actually avoid the more ripped man simply because of his physique (usually there are other reasons). Seems like another line of BS they just try to convince themselves of.
@ Mucius scaevola who said “…girls telling me I look too ripped and I shouldn’t get any bigger.”… This is another crazy thing I keep hearing women say, including my own wife who tells me this. She is naturally thin but losing all her tone because she only runs about twice a month and does zero weight-training, zero pilates, zero yoga. And she doesn’t like that my muscles are getting too big? So the subtext is “I’m getting worried that other women will notice you, but instead of actually doing something about it to keep you attracted to me, I’ll… Read more »
@Wilf
Women tear each other down when one tries to get ahead as part of the herd mentality…they’ll do it to men too. Thing is a smart man doesn’t listen to that and continues to improve himself independent of her talk. Leaders set themselves apart from the herd.
A couple weeks into my relationship with an ex when she asked me if I’d dump her if she got fat. I was young and oblivious to many social conventions at the time. I looked at her like she was dumb.
“Yes.”
She looked shocked. I didn’t understand why, it seemed obvious to me.
Looking back on it she wasn’t the type to get fat (no fat relatives, healthy lifestyle). This was a textbook shit test.
@taterearl who said “… a smart man doesn’t listen to that and continues to improve himself independent of her talk. Leaders set themselves apart from the herd.”
Yes, it took many years for this idea to fully sink in, but it is, watch out I’m going to use the e-word, ‘Empowering’. 🙂
@ Trini
“She also said that there would be men dying to date her because of her gigantic breast and ass.”
As rollo said before.. there are men who are fetishist and crave big bozonga’s and huge cratered and cavernous ass cheecks because they like big butts and cannot deny!
course with big ass/big tits you end up with tons of excess which disgusts me. I’ve always been attracted to thin, slender and small boob women.
I hate Doube D’s.
I haven’t had the chance to use it yet, but I think the perfect response to “Would you still love me if I got fat?” might be “Not as much.”
It’s not in-your-face enough to start a fight or anything, it gets the point across, and it’s playful. Any thoughts?
A couple of years ago, I got a gym membership… before I even lost a pound, my sex life with my wife went from twice a week up to six days a week! I find it interesting that the sex stopped precisely when the membership expired. I guess she perceived my self improvement as a threat to our marriage.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267715/Shaming-fat-people-losing-weight-way-solve-obesity-epidemic-leading-health-academic-claims.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I don’t make any excuses for bad behavior in myself or others.
Accept the consequences of your actions. End of story.
I had a similar observation some time ago, although I commend your deeper analysis. I’ve mentioned Rational Male’s quality level of discussion before and The New Thin is another example of that quality. http://ariseandexcel.wordpress.com/2012/10/22/the-echo-chamber/
I want to focus more on the “you go girl” mentality than number of pounds. I was curious on Facebook the other day and looked up two gals I dated a long time ago. One had actually aged OK, but not incredibly. (She’s a woman who would deny this, but her total existence/self-esteem is based on her looks and how much male attention she’s getting.) Anyway, the comments on her Facebook page were, “You look so great” and “pretty woman” and so forth. All from women, of course and she loved this. My feelings? Solid, not great, aged better than… Read more »
Martel,
I think I pulled this at the beginning of my marriage and my husbands response was exactly that (it may not have been the fat question but it was some shit test. Can’ remember exactly what) and it worked to get the message across perfectly. He got the slap to the arm, I got the point and we went on with our night.
The image hasn’t been addressed yet. There seem to be more and more products coming out for the purpose of smoothing things over. A couple years back I had this strapless bra that covered a lot of my abdomin (now there seem to be less of this style) and I really liked it because it seemed to help my whole posture. Is the corset making a comeback? I think I’d be pro-corset 🙂 Stingray, will you tie my stays?
Problem with fat woman is that…
1. They have big ass and big breast but also have weight behind it. They don’t understand that their weight is what’s keeping them from being seen in the same light as woman like Kim Kardashian and Kelly Brook.
2. They don’t have shapely breast and ass, they just have breast and ass that are BIG.
Had a similar conversation with my girl this morning. She is thin and muscular from yoga and pilates. She mentioned how hard it is to find clothes that fit well and sometimes has to shop in the misses section. I told her it’s because she is now a minority.
The herd are well fed.
I kinda hate to say it but I can deal with a semi-ugly chick, she just can’t be fat. Fat is a “no-no” for me. No way I’m going near that
And if you happen to be the type of guy who doesn’t mind the fat itself (rare), you’ll have to reassure her every ten minutes that you don’t mind how big she is.
I dated a girl who was slightly overweight once (I was stuck in a random state with no women around for three months) and I got sick of her constant need for reassurance much quicker than her bod.
Never again, even for a quickie.
Kate,
Those products combined with a dimly lot venue and a couple drinks work wonders. Off the top of my head I can remember being very disappointed w 3 different girls when their cloths came off. Sex with lights off is sometimes for the best.
I’ll tie yours if you tie mine, Kate. I like corsets but have yet to try one.
lol- I’ve heard men disparage the Wonderbra for that very reason.
her: would you still love me if i got fat? you: would you still love me if i became effeminate? ideally, though, she wouldn’t ask you this because you would have laid down the law vis-a-vis her becoming a fat fuck a long time ago. it should be something that wasn’t negotiable at the very beginning of the relationship and will never be negotiable. screen ltr prospects for ballooning potential as rigorously as you would screen her for sluttiness. keep an eye out for things like: arm flab, jowl flab, what she eats and drinks, if she has more than… Read more »
‘asses in yoga pants are sloppier than they appear’
Not trolling or anything, but I think women do have a point in saying men are “shallow” or at least superficial in their mating selections.
If we’ve concluded that alpha is a state of mind and that women are more attracted to alpha behaviors than to contextual alphaness (money, leader of men, etc.); then isn’t true that “it’s what’s inside a man that’s counts” to them?
Again, not trolling, just need some clarifications.
@Adam
No, because what’s inside a man isn’t what counts. What he has accomplished and what he is capable of doing is way more important than how “nice” or “chivalrous” he is.
@aneroidocean
“What he has accomplished and what he is capable of doing” is considered contextual alphaness.
“Nice and chivalrous” is betaness.
I’ve got several problems with fat women as LTR prospects unrelated to sex appeal.. by being overweight and failing to do anything about it, you – a.) Are placing your own desires above the desire’s of your spouse’s b.) Are demonstrating your own lack of discipline and forethought for your health and well being; and if you’re sloppy in one regard of your life you’re likely to be sloppy in others c.) Simply failing to realize that what you reap is what you sow Though, to be honest, the same standards could be held to men fairly; it’s not a… Read more »
It’s crazy to say that an ugly chick is superior to an attractive, overweight chick. I have no problem in saying that fat is bad and a negative in the looks department but choosing a female who is objectively hideous is far worse than choosing a chubby girl who is pretty. Birthing hips, lips, eyes, body to waist ratio, skin, hair, shape are all good markers of fertility and quality of partner. The manosphere gets off its shit when it comes to this subject because it stings pompous females. But let’s not leave science in the dust in the process.… Read more »
Off topic, but I haven’t heard anything from the Manosphere on the Manti Te’o thing. I have to wonder just how far a man has to sink to become an sexless orbiter of a woman who won’t make the effort to even physically exist.
F-Ferret Obesity seems to the number one plague on the developed first world nations. It probably causes more harm and damage than any other problem that we have encountered in the west simply because it attacks our very foundation. 30 years ago there was “child onset diabetes” and “adult onset diabetes”. The first one was caused by a biological defect , the second induced by too much sugar going into the mouth. Then so many teenagers became diabetic due to diet and lifestyle, we had to relabel these conditions “Type I” and “Type II” diabetes. Diabetes is to aging as… Read more »
[…] Rational Male – The New Thin […]
It’s been my observation that a lot of obese women eventually become lesbians, I personally know several women who have gone down this path.
I think there’s a parallel between women wanting men to love them even if they’re fat and the way that men want to be loved that Rollo describes in “Men in Love”. Unless, you consider mother/child love (or maybe some abstract like the Greek agape), love isn’t unconditional. Love is valuable, perhaps as valuable as anything else, so to a certain extent you’ve got to earn it. You can’t expect somebody to give you their heart and soul if you insist on defying what makes them human. Nature has laws, and we want to break them. We want to be… Read more »
A woman who is overweight, to me signals lack of self control. If she has a medical issue, I will easily let it slide but most American women are perfectly physically healthy. It is unfortunate that we allow obesity to become a standard. Nations such as Italy and Greece were great because they admired aesthetics in objects and in people. It should be no surprise that the downfall of our nation is synonymous with our crass tendency to disregard the notion of aesthetic beauty.
“It should be no surprise that the downfall of our nation is synonymous with our crass tendency to disregard the notion of aesthetic beauty.” America loves aesthetics. We obesses over looks and wanting to be models. The problem lies in that people don’t know how to be healthy and thin and when they attempt it multiple times and fail miserably they simply give up. No fat woman is happy with her looks deep down inside. Eat less and exercise more is the akin to give her flowers and chocolates and be nice to get laid. It should work yet it’s… Read more »
@Furious Ferret: At 47, I have spent the past 2 years re-educating myself about diet and exercise. I was shocked at how easy it was to go from a lethargic 225lbs to a muscular and energetic 195lbs. No need for calorie counting, rationing, or semi-starvation, and no jogging for an hour every night “to burn up calories”. I think I average about an hour and a half per week of exercise. The problem is not just grains and sugars, but the current *quality* of the grains and sugars that have become standard in the USA. Actually, the quality of just… Read more »
@ Ferret: You definitely make some good points regarding diet and nutrition, and I agree that there’s tons of misinformation out there, but sorry, some of it’s just plain laziness.
You don’t have to be an expert nutritionist to know that too much Krispy Kreme is gonna put on some pounds, and you don’t need a personal trainer to tell you that it’s probably a good idea to get off your ass every once in a while.
Itsme
her: would you still love me if i got fat?
you: would you still love me if i became effeminate?
You: would you still love me if I’m homeless?
You: would you still love me if I wore a dress?
You: would you still love me if let you make all three decisions of the house, finances and initiation of sex?
If that woman in the picture started the paleo diet and adopted a lifestyle of walking biking hiking she could attractive.
If that woman in the picture started the paleo diet and adopted a lifestyle of walking biking hiking she could attractive.
That’s part of the fat acceptance programming – only showing ‘potentially attractive’ fat people. You never see a fuggo fatso used as “fat is beautiful” propaganda.
I’m trying to understand where exactly the “beta” notion that women do not enjoy sex stems from. It’s probably something that feminism has instilled in the society. But there’s probably an accurate answer for this.
“By tacitly reinforcing the “good looks” of an obviously overweight woman with positive compliments, the latent message is that she doesn’t need to improve her looks to attract men. The truth of course is that she could be semi-fuckable after dropping another 15 pounds, but in telling her she’s hot ‘as-is’ the idea, in the form of an encouraging compliment, is to get her to relax and stay fat. Thus the complimenter(s) simultaneously feel relaxed in their fat. It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.” Fascinating breakdown Rollo.… Read more »
fat shaming worked for me. I was a fat kid and got ridiculed by classmates a lot. It hurt of course, but it eventually generated enough pressure to change my habits. I took up running and cut out all these fatty stuff my grandma was feeding me and at the age of 14 I was starting to even get A grades in sports. I never got fat again and compete in marathons regularly. Today, I am quite thankful for the peer pressure I got back then. even if you have lousy genes and easily gain weight, it’s no excuse to… Read more »
I was fat most of my life. Staying fat requires a lot of lies from those around you. Saying things like don’t worry®, you really aren’t that big®, you look good®, you’re healthy®, you’re active®, just be yourself®, it’s what’s inside that counts® it’s just the way you are built®, you really don’t eat that much®, you eat quite healthy®, life is short, enjoy your food®, that’s just what happens when you get older® and it’s just genetic®. For me, it was one single dose of ‘fat shaming’ around 30 years of age that stuck in my head and finally… Read more »
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to say regarding staying fat. Fat shaming is so effective because fat people already know the truth. I am convinced that at some level, every fat person who does not have a medical condition that keeps them fat, knows they are lying to themselves.
At the top of the thread, A.B. Dada coins ” Sexual Market defense”. That’s a very useful concept that should spread.
These companies would be sunk. General Mills would be straight up fucked.
yep….as always, follow the money.
don’t forget big pharma – they make a good chunk of money from statins and insulin.
healthy people are simply not as profitable as unhealthy people. keep everyone sick but alive – ka-ching!
Part of the anti-fat-shaming philosophy reflects an anti-masculine bias. Guys encourage each other by giving them shit, calling each other pussies, etc. Women are “supportive” (if you consider passive-aggressive compliments where they arent’ deserved supportive) of each other.
Each technique has its role, but to total avoidance of shaming is tying one hand behind our backs when we want to combat virtually any societal ill.
It would help to define the lower limit of “fat” (pretty low for me), but I have to side on preferring a slightly “soft”, not pillowy, option with a cute face over a facially ugly one. Invariably. If the ugly has a killer body, then it might be a contest, but otherwise not. I know that the US is saddled with a horrible fat invasion of a scale that I cannot even fathom seeing every day, but it still puzzles me a bit when often in ‘sphere/PUA writings ugly seems to be automatically equalled as meaning fat. There are truly… Read more »
Relevant: (it’s as though the mainstream media and the sphere are in collusion about what topics to write.. LOL) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/24/daniel-callahan-fat-shaming-curb-obesity_n_2543270.html I heard about this today watching the local morning show on Global TV. All 4 panalists where so very much against it saying fat people already know how bad they have it and that a lot of the time, the weight is a direct result of eating because they feel bad, perpetual cycle. While i can agree with the principle.. none of the panelists talked about the fact we have a fat-acceptance movement, and strong pushback from crisco chicks from… Read more »
More germaine to the previous post, but I thought y’all should know.
http://sistertoldjah.com/archives/2013/01/24/a-thoughtful-argument-against-having-women-serve-alongside-men-on-the-frontlines/
And as far as altering standards to allow the egalitarian dreams to “come true”:
http://proteinwisdom.com/?p=46886
furious ferret: I dont think you have that right on calories in calories out. it is the gospel truth. the laws of thermodynamics are what they are. and i’m someone that eats strict paleo. I dont buy into the notion that if i just eat grass fed beef and veggies and nuts I can eat however much I want and I’ll not be fat. its just not true. i know it to not be true because i tried that for a year. if you eat 8 pieces of bacon, 6 eggs for breakfast and 16 oz steaks for dinner quite… Read more »
I didn’t say that the laws of thermodynamics doesn’t apply. I said that they are being simpilifed and reduced into a simple formula that while technically true is missing the forest for the trees. What you eat plays a role in determining the calories out portion of the equation. Calories in is easy to deduce, calories out on the other hand is much more complex. Your body has a set point that it wants to maintain and when you eat right it will naturally work to maintain a healthy set point of body fat percentage of say anywhere from 13… Read more »
The next time I hear a woman claim that men are shallow if they won’t date an overweight or less-than-physically-attractive women… I’m going to ask her if women are likewise shallow if they won’t date a man with no job, education, or ambition and living his mom’s basement.
That’s an insightful explanation, Rollo.
Just as women (not men) are the primary slut shamers of other women in our society–in order to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves, women likewise regulate the sexual market through their cheer-leading of other women’s (poor) looks and weight. It’s a two-pronged effort: shame the sluts and uphold the fatties.
I dont buy into the notion that if i just eat grass fed beef and veggies and nuts I can eat however much I want and I’ll not be fat don’t take that too literally. the ‘want’ is not what you want, it’s what your body wants. you might think you ‘want’ to eat a 96oz steak, but unless you’re an athlete or haven’t eaten in days, your body will not want it and you’ll have trouble actually eating all of it. this is your body regulating itself correctly when fed real food. there is an entire movement on bodybuilding.com,… Read more »
Dear god, this post has struck home. My sister of all people (well aware of my caddish tendencies and intolerance of fatties – I work out hard, I expect the same from my women), is trying to set me up with a chick who from what I can ascertain is scraping the minimum standard of physical attractiveness (OK face, but she’s got that arm fat, one can assume she’s gonna blow up once she hits 30). Comments include: “she runs pretty much every day; her eyes are the most amazing colour, oh and she’s sooo funny.” I turned to her… Read more »
I think ProofNeeded is right on this one. Flame away, but pretty and chubby beats ugly and slender every day of the week.
i suspect shaming works better on men than it does on women for a few reasons: – men will be more brutally honest with their male friends when necessary. ‘dude, you need to hit the gym, you’re starting to look like jabba the hutt.’ whereas women will tend to be more supportive to other women, even if it’s to their detriment. ‘no, you look fine with 25 extra pounds.’ – men tend to assess themselves more accurately than women. ‘fuck me, i really do look like jabba the hutt, my friends were right i should hit the gym’ vs ‘i… Read more »
@deti
proofneeded’s example was a bit loaded though:
choosing a female who is objectively hideous is far worse than choosing a chubby girl who is pretty
hideous (tremendously boner killingly ugly) vs. chubby (a bit of baby fat).
how about a girl with a slightly below average face but a rockin’ bod vs a pretty girl who weighs 500 lbs?
itsme:
of course, slightly below average face and rockin’ body beats 500 lbs.
A pretty girl who balloons up to manatee status is no longer pretty.
500 pounds is morbidly obese.
“Chubby” is a little bit of baby fat, or even just plump.
Erudite Knight
Thus we have things like this where fatties are ‘hot!’
and ‘beauty is only skin deep’.
Hush, hush, whisper who dares .. gauchely and absentmindedlly spilling the beans, “Oh that’s just not true. You all look pretty much the same with the skin off .. “ can see one spending the rest of the evening very, very alone at the bar, and wondering if it was your aftershave or something.
as if women are the only one’s over weight. Men defending not being shallow when they themselves have a beer gut, balding & what’s left is gray. hahahaha. glad I’m skinny and can laugh at these men who don’t look at themselves in the mirror to realize they are not even being truthful about how they look!! If you don’t have Trump money or look like Brad Pitt.. your not gonna pull whatever selection of girl you want. got it?
I don’t agree with the premise of this post in the least bit. I’ve lost over 30 pounds not once but twice (I’m a male). Once I went from 240 to 155. That’s over 80 pounds. and I would get compliments from women all the time telling me I’m shrinking and I’m looking really good and that I look totally different and this was when I was down to like 200-195. I think you are taking the compliments way, way too literally. anyone who takes the time to lose weight all people are doing is encouraging them to keep on… Read more »
rollo
even CH now has post on thin women, oh i mean fat women.
glad I’m skinny
the new skinny?
I can tell you going from 297 to 223 has done wonders for how women perceive me. Some still won’t give me the time of day but many more do. I’m optimistic that in 19 more weeks, I’ll hit my goal of 180. I had been shamed plenty of times before and it made me feel bad. I’m with FurriousFerret in that a lot of fat people simply don’t know how to eat properly. My first serious attempt to lose weight was eating 1800 calories a day in 2 “meals” if you could call it that. One meal was a… Read more »
Agree with @ProofNeeded and @deti. I’ll go further and say I got no particular problem with the gal in the picture. Don’t all rush to tell me I’m a sick freak. As someone suggested up the line somewhere about the manosphere position on women who are not classical beauties, who have a few extra pounds, short hair, or other strikes against: it’s all good fun for winding up the right sort of people that we love to wind up; but if we get real about things, just amongst ourselves, real women like slim-tank picture girl are acceptable to most of… Read more »
You just gotta love how most women rate 80% of men as below average, and then complain that the other 20% are shallow when they date hotter women…
@Retrenched – You just gotta love how most women rate 80% of men as below average, and then complain that the other 20% are shallow when they date hotter women…
A sad fact of life!!!
@ Michael of Charlotte, 120 lbs. is that the old or new skinny? Typical.. dish it out and can’t take it dude. Denial.
The hypothetical “500 pound pretty girl” should have a BMI of 20, yeah? Then she would have to be … 9 1/2 feet tall.
Women telling each other they look just great after gaining 40 pounds and getting a short haircut is merely the usual psyops. Like telling your friend to divorce that boring beta. Hey, what’s the downside? For me?
(I sometimes ponder what a woman reeeally means when she says or writes “no more games”. Probably not what the unwary man thinks.)
Off topic but wanted to spread this:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/eliminating-feminist-teacher-bias-erases-boys-falling-grades-study-finds
Kay, literally no idea what you’re talking about.
How deep the rabbit hole goes .
I’ve often wondered why the sisterhood encouraged fatness and unhealthy living amongst its peers , I had previously concluded that it was some kind of supportive “spare her feelings ” kind of sentiment. But rather, as Rollo points out, the fatkini shows are about lowering the bar to make males less selective, simultaneously easing the competition for the prize males by offering nothing but weighty options.
You’re a genius Rollo.
Thank you for what you do with it.
The dirty secret the fat acceptance movement won’t cop to is that fatties are as repulsed by fatties as skinny people. What fatties want is world where god-looking skinny people want to fuck fatties. That’s Want proof? Next time a fatty tells you that being fat is sexy and beautiful, suggest she find the nearest fat boy and promise him the hottest, dirtiest sex of his life. The look she’ll give you will confirm she’s as little interested in being a chubby chaser as any skinny person. If fatties don’t accept other fatties, I see no reason why I should.… Read more »