The New Thin


My Reddit Q&A on Monday generated a lot of good questions:

Ever notice on Facebook, when ever an average/fugly/fat chick post’s her picture you have like ten women (only women) chime in with their comments under the picture saying stuff like “HOT!” “you’re so pretty!” “damn you look good” when in fact she isn’t?!

Are women trying to make their not so attractive friend feel better about herself?! Or is there another scheme involved here of setting the bar low in order to boast their own attractive scale up.

I see, hear and read this constantly. What we’re observing however is a carefully constructed feminine social convention, and a feminine-combative one at that. By tacitly reinforcing the “good looks” of an obviously overweight woman with positive compliments, the latent message is that she doesn’t need to improve her looks to attract men. The truth of course is that she could be semi-fuckable after dropping another 15 pounds, but in telling her she’s hot ‘as-is’ the idea, in the form of an encouraging compliment, is to get her to relax and stay fat. Thus the complimenter(s) simultaneously feel relaxed in their fat.

It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.

I can remember experiencing this firsthand long before the advent of social media. In the days I worked in the resort casino industry, I was in the lunchroom with the largely (heh) female advertising department and the conversation came up about how some woman in accounting was “too thin” or she need to gain some weight. I emphatically disagreed; I knew the woman they were going on about and she could’ve lost 10 pounds and still been overweight. The ladies lost their shit when I said she could stand to lose a few pounds and hit the gym more often. The hens practically pounded the table with their fists and the accusations of misogyny, and the old chestnuts about men’s “shallow” desires for the physical all flew wild and furious.

You see all the women at the table were as heavy if not heavier than the woman in question. I had insulted the herd by association.

The funny thing about body image is that most people tend to judge obesity based on their own physique. If you’re overweight and your regular peer group is fatter than you, you tend to think you’re “normal”. It’s similar to eating a donut from a box someone’s brought to work for all to enjoy. If one person is eating a donut it tacitly gives others “permission” to enjoy one too.

I was once at a distillery in Panama with a group of Dutch people I work with and a stunningly attractive Panamanian secretary asked me if I was Dutch. I told her, no, I was American and she said “oh, you don’t ‘look’ American. I laughed at this for a minute and asked her what an American ‘looks’ like and she said, “well, they’re all fat.” I took it as a compliment, but I had to agree with her.

Books and Covers

You can’t judge a book by it’s cover, but more often than not, it’s a good indicator of what the story’s about. An attractive cover should make the reader want to read it.

Women have far more rigid prerequisites for what makes an acceptable man for an LTR than men do for women. Women base their estimate of a man on his confidence, status, affluence, looks, humor, intellect, creativity, ambition, determination, decisiveness,..and the list goes on. Men’s requisites for intimacy? Looks and sexual availability, that’s it. Beyond that, you can make a case for any ephemeral quality that convinces you the girl’s worth your long term investment, but if she’s not hot enough to keep your physical interest, you’re going to look elsewhere to make up for it.

Yet what is the single most common shaming tactic women use for men? Painting them as ‘shallow‘ for requiring her to maintain a good shape and be sexually available. Men have far too much on the line in the long term NOT to be concerned with demanding the highest standard from a woman for an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means. For all of the personal investment a man must make in himself to meet women’s ‘attraction prerequisites’, it only makes pragmatic sense that his (physical) standards for women be strict and exact.

It’s really up to you to make the judgement call, but by no means should you allow accusations of superficiality influence your decision in that. As a Man, you are well within your rights to expect a maintained physique from a woman, considering the far greater sacrifices she expects from you. Would you leave her if she got fat? Damn right you would. Would she leave you if you went beta-listless-unemployed-alcoholic? Damn right she would.

All that said, what it really comes down to is the reason why this girl lost the weight. There are plenty of fresh divorcees frenetically working out at Planet Fitness in the hopes of reconditioning themselves enough to attract another husband – only to fatten up again once she finds the guy who “loves her for who she is”. Women who once were fat, who slim down are prone to this. That’s not to say there aren’t women who make a definitive lifestyle change and go from being a walrus to a Fitness America Pageant contestant and parley that into modeling or  personal training career, but these are the most rare and notable exceptions.

I should also point out that it’s a uniquely White Knight habit to publicly defend a woman’s body image insecurities in order to get the identification / affirmation strokes they believe endears them to women. I hear these guys parrot back the same lines women self-affirm when talking about their body shape or trying to disqualify a sexual competitor, in an effort to be more ‘like’ the women they hope to get with. The idea is that they believe they’ll be rewarded for taking the “fat acceptance, love-who-you-are” tact and be perceived as more modern or up with the right conventions, and that guy’s who actually have the temerity to say they prefer a tight body are the neanderthals – again, to disqualify their own sexual competitors.

The Mechanics of Sexual Selection

Whenever the ‘fat is OK’ debate pops up all it does is serve to further illustrate yet another feminine social convention. All of these conventions are sociological and psychological methodologies with the latent purpose of securing breeding opportunities for less than physically optimal women.

  • Point 1: Women know on an instinctual, biological level that, overall, men generally base their breeding selection on the physical conditions of a female. Hips to waist ratio, breast size, facial symmetry, fullness of lips, youthful appearance, etc.

  • Point 2: In order to compete with similar women in meeting the physical standards of a given demographic of men, women must create physical methods in order to compensate for this deficit. Thus they have make up, cosmetic surgery, high-heels, hair dye, etc.

  • Point 3: Failing this, sociological and psychological constructs are necessary to ‘level the playing field’ in the sexual marketplace. Thus, fat, out of shape women attempt to convince men to feel ashamed for wanting a physically superior female by converting that desire into shame. It becomes superficiality. Likewise, older women who’s sexual marketability wanes with every passing year, must create social constructs that praises the sexual prowess of older women.

Women have been trying to convince themselves for centuries that there ought to be more to sexual attraction for men than physical appeal, and for centuries this method has been thwarted by simple male biology. Rather than play the game better, they attempt to change the rules of the game to better fit their own limitations in a variety of ways.

The problem with the idea that “it’s what’s inside that counts” is that it’s what’s outside that arouses. All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

229 comments on “The New Thin

  1. The main points of most things women verbalize seem to revolve around:

    1. Project, “I actually mean this about myself, but I’m saying it about you.”
    2. Sexual Market defense, “Oh, you’re not fat, you’re fluffy!” — Basically the point you made here, Rollo.
    3. Shit-Testing defense, “I better make sure you’re not a doormat”

    Lately, it’s been harder and harder to even carry on conversations of any merit with women, only because it seems that even the nicest ones are falling prey to the current social imperative hammering them from every angle (work, friends, TV, music, etc).

    I should also note that the previously unmolested rural gals of Europe have been taking a turn for the worse in terms of these 3 female verbalizations. What happened to the old go-to?

    4. Maintaining her territory, “Honey, can I make you a sandwich?”

    Of course, I wouldn’t want those words coming out of the bloated gasbag’s mouth pictured above.

  2. Being skinny takes EFFORT. Girls are inherently much more lazy than guys, so anything they can do to lower the bar they will.

    Thus we have things like this where fatties are ‘hot!’
    and ‘beauty is only skin deep’.

    Because if males dont judge on looks, that takes a LOT of the effort away women would otherwise have to do.

  3. The mirror is guys who are too nice, too eager and too suplicating asking hot women to love them for who they are on the inside, without mustering what it takes to trigger her attraction.

    Yes they have 467 more buttons to push vs. a man’s 2 buttons.. but the point is made. Attraction isn’t a choice, and telling me i’m wrong for not being attracted to rolls of cookie dough popping out through the spandex is not a design flaw in me.

  4. Men never sound so happy as when they guiltily confess to me that looks do matter to them and I say, “That isn’t shallow; that’s reality.”

  5. Inside joke.. one time before i obliterated my friendship with FWB, i recall hearing her tell a really big friend of ours that she looked uber pretty in her new haircut.

    Later on her balcony i asked her “look, i don’t want to be mean, but you didn’t really mean that did you? yeah her *hair* looks fine, but i wouldn’t say she looks pretty on the whole if you get my meaning..”

    she looked at me like i killed a puppy.

    “what do you mean.. she’s a very pretty girl, big eyes, beautiful face, awesome smile…”

    i interjected “and close to 250lbs….”

    she replied “hmmmmph. men. she has a lovely personality.”

    i said “really? perhaps because you yourself are really really hot in women’s standards you’re just blind to it but let me ask you little ms. thin… why don’t you put on another 100lbs then if it’s no big whoop? or do you like the attention you get from me and other men?”

    Yeah.. she shut up pretty fast because all of a sudden, she’s the shallow one for wanting the male gaze and knowing what it takes to get it.

  6. I see no problem with trying to become/stay fit and attractive, either to attract a mate or to make the one you have happier. I recently went from being 172 lbs to being 161 lbs, and hope to lose another 5 or so in the next 2 weeks. Why? Because my lover asked me to, and did it in such a way that it made me see I could be much more attractive for him.

    I’ll agree with another point in this article: Other females don’t like it when you lose weight/improve your looks. I already don’t have female friendships for this (and other) reason…but the first time I wore a tight fitting shirt after losing weight, each of my female coworkers remarked about how I was “too skinny” and “anorexic looking”. Nope, I’m just getting back down to a sexy weight, lol!

  7. For every red pill guy who stands his ground regarding not feeling attracted to overweight women, there are armies of gullible betas willing to kiss every roll of fat peeking out of the lycra.

  8. The fat acceptance movement is really the fat WOMEN’s acceptance movement.

    There are no women beating down fat men’s doors demanding to date and marry them.

    There are no women talking about how fat men should be accepted “for who they are”.

  9. Good for you, Anna! I have a friend who is finally devoted to losing weight and I am VERY excited for her too 🙂 The people remarking about your weight loss (if it is actually warranted as opposed to someone already very slender saying they want to lose weight) are showing their insecurity. More slender women does mean more competition, but, if you’ve got other good traits besides looks, why should one be intimidated another is making a healthy decision to lose weight.

    Again, yaya you!

  10. Rollo , I can´t emphasize enough how thankful I am for enriching my knowledge of the world an psychology of women. A million thanks . Reading your blog I felt like bitterly enlightened , needless to say I downloaded almost all of your posts. Also , esponding to your readers puts you above the majority of the blogosphere. Sharing such knowledge for free for the sake of manhood is truly a holy thing. I´m 19 and at the beginning of my way in life. What is the secret to keep a woman with you for a lifetime ?
    You briefly adressed that by ,, keeping gaming her after marriage´´, but to me this answer begs for detail. Could you make a post about the secret of a healthy LTR like you have ?
    I aks not from a standpoint of wussy needines ( OMG she´s THE ONE!!!) but of my view of the world ( I find monogamy more fullfilling than polyamory )

  11. Women also seem incapable of realizing that there’s some tradeoff between attractiveness and sexual availability. They seem to think that not only should men be attracted to a fat woman, but they should also settle for less and less interesting intimacy from the fat woman should the fat woman say so. This is like trying to steal your cake and insist that it turn itself into apple pie before eating it.

    In plain english, many men will overlook the fact that you’re fat so long as you’re willing to try anything sexually and be available for sex all the time. There is no right/wrongness to this, it’s just a fact. The less sexually available/adventurous you are, the more arousing your body needs to be for the man to feel that he’s not getting shortchanged.

    I get the impression though, that with the rise of the manosphere, men are being less forgiving on this front. i.e., if you won’t do oral, you’re not worth anyone’s time.

  12. “If one person is eating a donut it tacitly gives others ‘permission to enjoy one too.”

    The flip-side of this is that if you refuse the donut, you’re “shaming” everybody who does have one. I get this all the time at work because I won’t eat the donut. They’re mad at me but then I catch them checking me out all the time. Go figure.

    I found this article hilarious:

    The wise folks who conducted the study examine every reason for the relational tension except the obvious one: Men find fat women unattractive. Don’t let anybody ever tell you that the Hamster can’t break into the scientifc fields.

  13. @M3

    Whenever I see a fat chick I see my old self. That plus their fat revolts me.

    Skinny ladies for the most part are more fun to talk to an approach anyway. Most of your overweight women have the bad attitude to go along with it. If there’s a segment of the population that can’t afford to be a pain personality-wise it’s obese women.

  14. I had a similar conversation with my wife as M3.LOL. My wife and her mom was trying to set my brother in law up with an overweight friend of their family a few years ago. Just a couple weeks ago a conversation lead us to talking about why her brother did not choose the overweight girl. I remember him saying to me and another guy that he just can’t get with a big chick like that. I was telling my wife that physically appearance had alot to do with her brother not getting with that girl. The first thing my wife said is that should never be an issue as the girl is a beautiful person on the inside and that automatically guarantees her a mate. The chick is only about 5′ tall and close to 250lbs. I said she could be the sweetest person in the world, read to the blind, or feed the hungry in Africa, but if she is not physically attractive some men will pass on wanting to date her. She thought that was the most luducrious and shallowest thinking on my part. She could not phatom how any man could think like I She also said that there would be men dying to date her because of her gigantic breast and ass. I quickly told her that the big tits and ass are mostly excess fat, and she will only get attention from a certain type of man and not necessarily the man she wants to attract. Again my wife was dumbfounded by my But the funny thing was that my wife asked her brother about this issue and the girl and he said that was never a reason. He said the reason was that he sees the girl as a friend of the family and more like a then told my wife that I am a weirdo… He told me one thing way back when and then changed his tune when confronted by a woman. But he is close to pushing 275lbs himself so I should of expected that. Or I guess he was afraid to be labelled shallow by the women in his family. Mind you I have been trying to get my wife to see the importance of keeping her weight down for the entire marriage. But with a mindset like hers it’s been an impossible task. The red pill has certainly been a tough pill to swallow especially as it exposes all your past betaness that lead you to your current situation.

  15. Obesity seems to the number one plague on the developed first world nations. It probably causes more harm and damage than any other problem that we have encountered in the west simply because it attacks our very foundation.

    GSP said a quote that I stuck with me:
    “”The only reason it is good to lift weights, to do bench press, and stuff like that, I believe, is because it is going to make me more marketable, and to keep myself looking more symmetric, with a better image… Which is very important, because if you look good, you feel good, and if you feel good, you do good. There’s nothing wrong with that you know.”

    What happens when our whole society starts to look just downright ugly? When people know that they are disgusting and replusive to their fellow human and it creates toxic feeling and emotions which lead to negative behaviors and actions. I think that most obese people are simply unhappy because they are sick and disfigured. I’ve lived through pseudo disfigurement through severe acne. It changes your whole being, thought patterns and actions. Cystic acne is simply the facial equivalent to obesity. What happens is that you either become a bitter defensive person or withdraw from society as much as you can.Now apply this concept to say half the population. Half the population are people that probably hate themselves on some level. When you hate yourself how can you be a positive person that impacts the world in a productive manner?

    The thing that annoys me about obesity is that it’s very easy to combat and avoid with the right knowledge that isn’t hard to follow through on. I believe that there are two factors to play in the weight epidemic.

    First is the ridiculous standards that people hold for someone to be regarded as ideally attractive and this being a zero sum game. I think the old adage of ‘good is the enemy of perfect’ describes this idea. People are too concerned about besting one another in the looks department. Men killing themselves in the gym simply to achieve an adonis physique. It’s fucking ridiculous because the reason they do it is because they think it will get them hot ass. Lifting weights is an important part of a man’s life because it creates a masculine body accompained by the hormones that make a man feel good. However, there is a point of dimishing returns. If you already meet the threshold of in shape, adding ten more pounds of muscle does fuck all in pulling better looking women unless you are completely jacked and significantly outperform the other men in the ‘hulk market’.

    Men are starting to judge other men like catty women! They obesses over having 8 percent body fat and freak out if it’s 15 percent. To be considered swole or jacked, a guy has to be in the top 20 percent or ‘do you even lift’ comes out. If you are working out solely to get chicks and that’s your game, you need to be the top dog in terms of physical looks which most guys can’t achieve. Then when these same men despite being in shape strike out with shitty game, some will just say fuck it and let themselves go because ‘it doesn’t matter anyways’. These men give up because they don’t even know the rules of the game. They have been conditioned in a femcentric society so long that they believe that instead of looks being a piece of the puzzle, it’s the only thing that matters. They believe their worth is to that of a woman’s.

    At the end of the day, if a man lifts weights and eats right, even with a plain face, he will be attractive in the looks department to able to score quality ass. That check box is now ticked and the other aspects of his life should be focused on. Likewise, if a woman is skinny with a plain face, she will be fuckable and attractive. People need to stop the arms race for the height of physical attractiveness when that’s not a realistic standard. It’s doesn’t really do anything for guy to aspire to be a male model.

    Second, is that our diet advice is just plain wrong. The Paleo diet is correctly the rage of people in the know that have turned themselves from fat diseased people into normal healthy people. The Paleo diet should also be called ‘The diet that Grandma said to eat when I was five years old’. Meat and veggies as the mainstay without sugar, soda and potato chips. Wow, so revolutionary. You mean if I don’t eat junk food and eat clean food I won’t get fat?

    It’s so simple but again the MSM has fucked us up the ass. What money is there to made in simple? Calories in/ calories out is one of the dumbest reductionist ideas to be put out there. Of course it’s true that calories in/calories out is technically correct but it’s stupid to base our whole nutrition/exercise industry. Your body isn’t a metal pan where you burn it to base the calories out portion. Good calories behave differently than junk food calories. When you eat clean foods your body self regulates to make you a person that isn’t overweight. How many fat lions do you see on nature shows? Do you think that the lion goes for a jog in the morning and then hits the gym? Hell no, he sits on his ass all day and then gets up to fuck, eat or fight. Last time I checked humans were mammals too.

    The main issue is that MSM wants to say moderate amounts of poison is the way to go. All you have to do is shoot 1/4 of the smack than your normal amount than you can be ok. You don’t tell an alcoholic that he should have one or two beers a day and then get pissed off that he downed 15. All that processed drugfood needs to removed from our daily diet.

    My whole rant leads to the conclusion, that if Americans were slim and didn’t have obessive standards we would all be a hell of lot happier. People can’t accept an ugly replusive mate. I read from a personal trainer that what happens almost every time an obese person makes it to thin fit status, that person leaves his/her partner. Fat is killing us and not just physically either but our very souls and relationships.

  16. @taterearl who said “Most of your overweight women have the bad attitude to go along with it. If there’s a segment of the population that can’t afford to be a pain personality-wise it’s obese women.”

    This is so true. I find that though I am disgusted by fat (and having been a former fatty myself), there are a couple of obese women in my office complex who are pleasant, feminine, friendly and smiling all the time. Other than the fat, they also happen to be my type (brunettes). I think they are great and if I were on the prowl might consider asking them out.

    Men are indeed simple creatures, and I can’t speak for us all, but a pleasing and feminine personality goes a long way – sometimes, I think, to even overlooking the phsyical.

    And to think we are labelled “shallow” as an automatic reflex by women who in most cases have at minimum, a very pointed and precise 6 to 10 point checklist for specific male attractivity traits, when we can narrow our needs in some cases to just “Don’t be a bitch.”?

    The mind boggles.

  17. I’ve noticed that “differently-sized” women fall into two camps. There’s the voraciously bitchy type who insists that everybody love her FOR WHO SHE IS! and almost dares you to notice how obese she is.

    And then there’s the way-too-nice ultra-clingy kind, usually talkative and way too liberal with compliments. She seems to be begging everybody to like her with every statement and act.

  18. And if guys need another visial.

    Learning game is like a woman losing weight. It’s going to be a bitter pill for both to take when you realize where you are at…it’ll take time, lots of roadblocks and struggles, doing stuff you don’t want to do but have to do, and once you get to where you want to be the world is your oyster.

  19. I enjoy the flipside of the above-stated fb convention, which is girls telling me I look too ripped and I shouldn’t get any bigger. All the easier to identify competition anxiety.

    Sidebar: rollo will you consider writing about the manti t’eo Internet girlfriend hoax? Love to hear your take on it

  20. Rollo… Thank you for making a post about something interesting. If I had to read the words “feminine imperative” or “hamster” many more times I was going to cancel my subscription.

    [Yeah, me too.]

  21. @Mucius scaevola
    I enjoy the flipside of the above-stated fb convention, which is girls telling me I look too ripped and I shouldn’t get any bigger. All the easier to identify competition anxiety.

    –> I have actually seen women say this. However, I’ve never seen women actually avoid the more ripped man simply because of his physique (usually there are other reasons). Seems like another line of BS they just try to convince themselves of.

  22. @ Mucius scaevola who said “…girls telling me I look too ripped and I shouldn’t get any bigger.”…

    This is another crazy thing I keep hearing women say, including my own wife who tells me this. She is naturally thin but losing all her tone because she only runs about twice a month and does zero weight-training, zero pilates, zero yoga. And she doesn’t like that my muscles are getting too big?

    So the subtext is “I’m getting worried that other women will notice you, but instead of actually doing something about it to keep you attracted to me, I’ll tell you to limit the bettering of yourself for me under the pretense that you look all icky body-buildy and out of proportion.” Please tell me NAWATLAD (Not All Women Are That Lazy And Delusional).

  23. @Wilf

    Women tear each other down when one tries to get ahead as part of the herd mentality…they’ll do it to men too. Thing is a smart man doesn’t listen to that and continues to improve himself independent of her talk. Leaders set themselves apart from the herd.

  24. A couple weeks into my relationship with an ex when she asked me if I’d dump her if she got fat. I was young and oblivious to many social conventions at the time. I looked at her like she was dumb.


    She looked shocked. I didn’t understand why, it seemed obvious to me.

    Looking back on it she wasn’t the type to get fat (no fat relatives, healthy lifestyle). This was a textbook shit test.

  25. @taterearl who said “… a smart man doesn’t listen to that and continues to improve himself independent of her talk. Leaders set themselves apart from the herd.”

    Yes, it took many years for this idea to fully sink in, but it is, watch out I’m going to use the e-word, ‘Empowering’. 🙂

  26. @ Trini

    “She also said that there would be men dying to date her because of her gigantic breast and ass.”

    As rollo said before.. there are men who are fetishist and crave big bozonga’s and huge cratered and cavernous ass cheecks because they like big butts and cannot deny!

    course with big ass/big tits you end up with tons of excess which disgusts me. I’ve always been attracted to thin, slender and small boob women.

    I hate Doube D’s.

  27. I haven’t had the chance to use it yet, but I think the perfect response to “Would you still love me if I got fat?” might be “Not as much.”

    It’s not in-your-face enough to start a fight or anything, it gets the point across, and it’s playful. Any thoughts?

  28. A couple of years ago, I got a gym membership… before I even lost a pound, my sex life with my wife went from twice a week up to six days a week! I find it interesting that the sex stopped precisely when the membership expired. I guess she perceived my self improvement as a threat to our marriage.

  29. I don’t make any excuses for bad behavior in myself or others.

    Accept the consequences of your actions. End of story.

  30. I want to focus more on the “you go girl” mentality than number of pounds.

    I was curious on Facebook the other day and looked up two gals I dated a long time ago. One had actually aged OK, but not incredibly. (She’s a woman who would deny this, but her total existence/self-esteem is based on her looks and how much male attention she’s getting.) Anyway, the comments on her Facebook page were, “You look so great” and “pretty woman” and so forth. All from women, of course and she loved this. My feelings? Solid, not great, aged better than I thought, but not awesome.

    The other gal I looked up used to be awesome looking, but she didn’t take care of her health. I saw her latest picture and cringed and thought, “Wow, did you dodge a bullet or what?!” Oddly, she, too, got the “you look great” and “pretty” stuff from her Facebook friends. Trust me, she looked tired, worn out, angry, mean, and lost her former great looks. That didn’t stop the “you go girl” mantra, however. Perhaps people are just trying to be nice, I don’t know.

  31. Martel,

    I think I pulled this at the beginning of my marriage and my husbands response was exactly that (it may not have been the fat question but it was some shit test. Can’ remember exactly what) and it worked to get the message across perfectly. He got the slap to the arm, I got the point and we went on with our night.

  32. The image hasn’t been addressed yet. There seem to be more and more products coming out for the purpose of smoothing things over. A couple years back I had this strapless bra that covered a lot of my abdomin (now there seem to be less of this style) and I really liked it because it seemed to help my whole posture. Is the corset making a comeback? I think I’d be pro-corset 🙂 Stingray, will you tie my stays?

  33. Problem with fat woman is that…

    1. They have big ass and big breast but also have weight behind it. They don’t understand that their weight is what’s keeping them from being seen in the same light as woman like Kim Kardashian and Kelly Brook.
    2. They don’t have shapely breast and ass, they just have breast and ass that are BIG.

  34. Had a similar conversation with my girl this morning. She is thin and muscular from yoga and pilates. She mentioned how hard it is to find clothes that fit well and sometimes has to shop in the misses section. I told her it’s because she is now a minority.

    The herd are well fed.

  35. I kinda hate to say it but I can deal with a semi-ugly chick, she just can’t be fat. Fat is a “no-no” for me. No way I’m going near that

  36. And if you happen to be the type of guy who doesn’t mind the fat itself (rare), you’ll have to reassure her every ten minutes that you don’t mind how big she is.

    I dated a girl who was slightly overweight once (I was stuck in a random state with no women around for three months) and I got sick of her constant need for reassurance much quicker than her bod.

    Never again, even for a quickie.

  37. Kate,

    Those products combined with a dimly lot venue and a couple drinks work wonders. Off the top of my head I can remember being very disappointed w 3 different girls when their cloths came off. Sex with lights off is sometimes for the best.

  38. her: would you still love me if i got fat?
    you: would you still love me if i became effeminate?

    ideally, though, she wouldn’t ask you this because you would have laid down the law vis-a-vis her becoming a fat fuck a long time ago. it should be something that wasn’t negotiable at the very beginning of the relationship and will never be negotiable.

    screen ltr prospects for ballooning potential as rigorously as you would screen her for sluttiness. keep an eye out for things like: arm flab, jowl flab, what she eats and drinks, if she has more than a small smattering of fat friends, etc. just because she’s slender now doesn’t mean she’ll always be slender.

  39. Not trolling or anything, but I think women do have a point in saying men are “shallow” or at least superficial in their mating selections.

    If we’ve concluded that alpha is a state of mind and that women are more attracted to alpha behaviors than to contextual alphaness (money, leader of men, etc.); then isn’t true that “it’s what’s inside a man that’s counts” to them?

    Again, not trolling, just need some clarifications.

  40. @Adam

    No, because what’s inside a man isn’t what counts. What he has accomplished and what he is capable of doing is way more important than how “nice” or “chivalrous” he is.

  41. @aneroidocean

    “What he has accomplished and what he is capable of doing” is considered contextual alphaness.

    “Nice and chivalrous” is betaness.

  42. I’ve got several problems with fat women as LTR prospects unrelated to sex appeal.. by being overweight and failing to do anything about it, you –

    a.) Are placing your own desires above the desire’s of your spouse’s

    b.) Are demonstrating your own lack of discipline and forethought for your health and well being; and if you’re sloppy in one regard of your life you’re likely to be sloppy in others

    c.) Simply failing to realize that what you reap is what you sow

    Though, to be honest, the same standards could be held to men fairly; it’s not a woman-specific deficiency. And I’d totally support an in shape woman in leaving a man who refused to hit the weights.

    Bottom line is, harsh as it may that unless you have a /documented/ medical condition, get some self-respect, get some discipline, and stop being a fatass.

  43. It’s crazy to say that an ugly chick is superior to an attractive, overweight chick. I have no problem in saying that fat is bad and a negative in the looks department but choosing a female who is objectively hideous is far worse than choosing a chubby girl who is pretty. Birthing hips, lips, eyes, body to waist ratio, skin, hair, shape are all good markers of fertility and quality of partner. The manosphere gets off its shit when it comes to this subject because it stings pompous females. But let’s not leave science in the dust in the process.

  44. Off topic, but I haven’t heard anything from the Manosphere on the Manti Te’o thing. I have to wonder just how far a man has to sink to become an sexless orbiter of a woman who won’t make the effort to even physically exist.

  45. F-Ferret
    Obesity seems to the number one plague on the developed first world nations. It probably causes more harm and damage than any other problem that we have encountered in the west simply because it attacks our very foundation.

    30 years ago there was “child onset diabetes” and “adult onset diabetes”. The first one was caused by a biological defect , the second induced by too much sugar going into the mouth. Then so many teenagers became diabetic due to diet and lifestyle, we had to relabel these conditions “Type I” and “Type II” diabetes.

    Diabetes is to aging as gasoline is to fire. It hugely accelerates every aspect of the aging process – rips up the circulatory system, increases the probability of tumors, degrades the brain, tightens up connective tissue via higher rates of glycation, leads to blown out knees and hips due to higher loads on the joints…

    Obesity is correlated with heart attack, stroke, circulatory dementia, breast cancer in women, colon cancer in everyone, prostate cancer in men… the list goes on.

    Fat -> less mobility, earlier death, for both men and women.

    Wait, there is more. Abdominal fat, especially visceral, in men actually produces aromatase. Aromatase converts testosterone to estradiol. That beer belly is assocated with manboobs because it causes your T to flip to Estrogen. Too much fat literally feminizes a man.

    Perhaps that accounts for the large (heh) number of fat male feminists…

  46. It’s been my observation that a lot of obese women eventually become lesbians, I personally know several women who have gone down this path.

  47. I think there’s a parallel between women wanting men to love them even if they’re fat and the way that men want to be loved that Rollo describes in “Men in Love”.

    Unless, you consider mother/child love (or maybe some abstract like the Greek agape), love isn’t unconditional. Love is valuable, perhaps as valuable as anything else, so to a certain extent you’ve got to earn it. You can’t expect somebody to give you their heart and soul if you insist on defying what makes them human.

    Nature has laws, and we want to break them. We want to be weak and be rewarded as if we’re strong. In Heaven (if you believe in that sort of thing) we’ll be forgiven and loved no matter what we do, there’s no longer a need for us to hold up our end of any sort of bargain. But Earth is a dfferent place. Nobody owes us anything.

    It’s perfectly human to want it to be different, but it’s not.

  48. A woman who is overweight, to me signals lack of self control. If she has a medical issue, I will easily let it slide but most American women are perfectly physically healthy. It is unfortunate that we allow obesity to become a standard. Nations such as Italy and Greece were great because they admired aesthetics in objects and in people. It should be no surprise that the downfall of our nation is synonymous with our crass tendency to disregard the notion of aesthetic beauty.

  49. “It should be no surprise that the downfall of our nation is synonymous with our crass tendency to disregard the notion of aesthetic beauty.”

    America loves aesthetics. We obesses over looks and wanting to be models. The problem lies in that people don’t know how to be healthy and thin and when they attempt it multiple times and fail miserably they simply give up. No fat woman is happy with her looks deep down inside.

    Eat less and exercise more is the akin to give her flowers and chocolates and be nice to get laid. It should work yet it’s deeply flawed. Starvation diets lead to huge backlashes against you losing weight because your body thinks it’s starving and wants to keep it’s precious fuel so you don’t die. So while in the short term starving and do cardio achieves weight loss, it fucks you up way more than it helps. If you want to look presentable, you eat clean on what many people call the paleo diet and the body’s natural hormonal response kicks in and it self regulates to the weight that nature intended which almost always is no where near obese.

    People simply want to eat grain and processed foods and they believe the bullshit advice that MSM shoves down their throat yet doesn’t work leading to all sorts of misconceptions about weight management. It’s the same concept as using game with women. It’s misinformation to the highest degree.

    If all women in America simply eat a diet of meat and veggies for six months the fat acceptance movement would be dead because most women would regain a decent figure. They only have a fat acceptance movement simply because they can’t become thin. Most fat women have desperately dieted many times and failed. It’s not for lack of trying. Diet is everything and the gym is simply the icing on the cake. However, I don’t believe that the food industry will ever let the truth happen. What would happen if overnight people ate meat and veggies most of the time? Who would buy the sauces, pastas, breads, and all the countless number of crap processed food items? These companies would be sunk. General Mills would be straight up fucked.

    That’s why while I agree that women should try to stay thin, I don’t think it’s simply because they are lazy. I believe that’s it because they are don’t know how.

  50. @Furious Ferret:

    At 47, I have spent the past 2 years re-educating myself about diet and exercise. I was shocked at how easy it was to go from a lethargic 225lbs to a muscular and energetic 195lbs. No need for calorie counting, rationing, or semi-starvation, and no jogging for an hour every night “to burn up calories”. I think I average about an hour and a half per week of exercise.

    The problem is not just grains and sugars, but the current *quality* of the grains and sugars that have become standard in the USA. Actually, the quality of just about everything in the industrial food chain is suspect, right down to the meat and veggies, but you are still better off with those than the processed stuff with a 3-month shelf life.

    I won’t go into all the details, but my goal in life is now to eat as much as possible the way people ate about a century ago or before. Before pasteurized milk, before long-range shipping of produce, before hydroponics before cattle become boxed and grain-fed, before GMOs, and most definitely before “standardization” (nowadays, almost all products containing wheat come from one strain, genetically modified in the 1960s). A century ago, sure, fat people existed, but they were a minority and one had to really be a glutton as well as have a genetic predisposition to fat in order to become obese.

    Let’s just say there is a damn good reason I am now living in the country, growing my own vegetables, raising my own chickens and goats, and forming relationships with other small local farmers. I really think far worse things are going to happen with our food supply before it is all over. In fact, I suspect a collapse in the USA’s industrial food system will occur about the same time as a collapse in the banking system, and for many of the same reasons: hubris, lying, cheating, general disregard for anything but profit, and *outrageous* risk-taking with our well-being at stake. Be forewarned.

  51. @ Ferret: You definitely make some good points regarding diet and nutrition, and I agree that there’s tons of misinformation out there, but sorry, some of it’s just plain laziness.

    You don’t have to be an expert nutritionist to know that too much Krispy Kreme is gonna put on some pounds, and you don’t need a personal trainer to tell you that it’s probably a good idea to get off your ass every once in a while.

  52. Itsme

    her: would you still love me if i got fat?
    you: would you still love me if i became effeminate?

    You: would you still love me if I’m homeless?
    You: would you still love me if I wore a dress?
    You: would you still love me if let you make all three decisions of the house, finances and initiation of sex?

  53. If that woman in the picture started the paleo diet and adopted a lifestyle of walking biking hiking she could attractive.

  54. If that woman in the picture started the paleo diet and adopted a lifestyle of walking biking hiking she could attractive.

    That’s part of the fat acceptance programming – only showing ‘potentially attractive’ fat people. You never see a fuggo fatso used as “fat is beautiful” propaganda.

  55. I’m trying to understand where exactly the “beta” notion that women do not enjoy sex stems from. It’s probably something that feminism has instilled in the society. But there’s probably an accurate answer for this.

  56. “By tacitly reinforcing the “good looks” of an obviously overweight woman with positive compliments, the latent message is that she doesn’t need to improve her looks to attract men. The truth of course is that she could be semi-fuckable after dropping another 15 pounds, but in telling her she’s hot ‘as-is’ the idea, in the form of an encouraging compliment, is to get her to relax and stay fat. Thus the complimenter(s) simultaneously feel relaxed in their fat. It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.”

    Fascinating breakdown Rollo. You’re spot on. Brilliant insight into the minds of women on Facebook!

  57. fat shaming worked for me. I was a fat kid and got ridiculed by classmates a lot. It hurt of course, but it eventually generated enough pressure to change my habits. I took up running and cut out all these fatty stuff my grandma was feeding me and at the age of 14 I was starting to even get A grades in sports. I never got fat again and compete in marathons regularly. Today, I am quite thankful for the peer pressure I got back then.

    even if you have lousy genes and easily gain weight, it’s no excuse to not train hard and watch your diet. So I also think that fat acceptance leads in the wrong direction. I doubt that any fat guy or girl really enjoys it so in pressuring them to change you help them in the long run.

  58. I was fat most of my life.

    Staying fat requires a lot of lies from those around you. Saying things like don’t worry®, you really aren’t that big®, you look good®, you’re healthy®, you’re active®, just be yourself®, it’s what’s inside that counts® it’s just the way you are built®, you really don’t eat that much®, you eat quite healthy®, life is short, enjoy your food®, that’s just what happens when you get older® and it’s just genetic®.

    For me, it was one single dose of ‘fat shaming’ around 30 years of age that stuck in my head and finally made me shed the weight forever.

    Fat shaming works. It doesn’t have to be childish or offensive. It’s about matter of factly, telling that fat person the truth. They can then choose for it to set them free, or plug back into the Matrix with a big bowl of ice cream and a snuggly blanket.

  59. Oh, and one more thing I forgot to say regarding staying fat. Fat shaming is so effective because fat people already know the truth. I am convinced that at some level, every fat person who does not have a medical condition that keeps them fat, knows they are lying to themselves.

  60. At the top of the thread, A.B. Dada coins ” Sexual Market defense”. That’s a very useful concept that should spread.

  61. These companies would be sunk. General Mills would be straight up fucked.

    yep….as always, follow the money.

    don’t forget big pharma – they make a good chunk of money from statins and insulin.

    healthy people are simply not as profitable as unhealthy people. keep everyone sick but alive – ka-ching!

  62. Part of the anti-fat-shaming philosophy reflects an anti-masculine bias. Guys encourage each other by giving them shit, calling each other pussies, etc. Women are “supportive” (if you consider passive-aggressive compliments where they arent’ deserved supportive) of each other.

    Each technique has its role, but to total avoidance of shaming is tying one hand behind our backs when we want to combat virtually any societal ill.

  63. It would help to define the lower limit of “fat” (pretty low for me), but I have to side on preferring a slightly “soft”, not pillowy, option with a cute face over a facially ugly one. Invariably. If the ugly has a killer body, then it might be a contest, but otherwise not.

    I know that the US is saddled with a horrible fat invasion of a scale that I cannot even fathom seeing every day, but it still puzzles me a bit when often in ‘sphere/PUA writings ugly seems to be automatically equalled as meaning fat. There are truly ugly slim feminists/man-haters/attitude-merchants out there too. (I doubt that Roosh’s RoK Ugly-fem honeypot-experiment even dug to the bottom of the barrel.) Not that fatties wouldn’t fit the bill, but respect is due to the true uglies too! I’ll start a movement. In a moment.


    Off/back-to-topic: dominance vs. niceness + knighting

    Just back from work and in the bus two (non-fat!) girls got on and after sitting down one started literally shouting into her cell. I think I lost it a bit and, hum, ehh, bellowed (from diagonally behind) that she doesn’t have to shout into the phone. I think the word “hell” was involved too. Startled, they laughed nervous-defiantly at the manners-nazi and bubbled (sic) on.

    But some time afterwards, when everything had settled, the blonde, non-shouter one took a peek (they’re *always* bi-hair-colour pairs) — didn’t see her expression, though, as I was reading these exact RM comments on my phone, heh.

    As I left, I had to somewhat combat the urge to chodily apologize, instead I turned and merely smirkingly wished them a nice evening, despite everything. And gave a chuckle. The girls both had the exactly same pouty expression of Hurt Young Beauty (and didn’t say anything) as if they really thought I had run over them with an asphalt roller. The peeker was in fact quite stunning, not seen often in daytime, even with the level of local talent.

    But there was something in the poutiness, especially in the peeker’s face, that reminded me of a field report of sorts I read some time ago (at 3rd MM?) about the display of unexpected *corrective* dominance/assholishness during the first meeting with an entitled princess (they were gatecrashing at a club party and he unceremoniously first booted them out). This in turn led to an interest in him and so on. I got a funny feeling that with the shock treatment the curve for any future interaction would have been much levelled and would have allowed post-knightism like qualifying to her (you’re rather cool, after all) perhaps be even more heartfelt than after mere funny negging. Not that I recommend shouting, but just a strange daytime lesson there…

    For the tl:dr’ers:
    So, while knighting is a probably rather natural tendency to protect and place value on the female, it (like one-itis, a mechanism for pairing and raising a baby) must in fact be curtailed for a man to gain enough interest, especially with truly wanted women. And Rollo has correctly labelled both as mentally detrimental symptoms when taken too far.

  64. Relevant: (it’s as though the mainstream media and the sphere are in collusion about what topics to write.. LOL)

    I heard about this today watching the local morning show on Global TV. All 4 panalists where so very much against it saying fat people already know how bad they have it and that a lot of the time, the weight is a direct result of eating because they feel bad, perpetual cycle.

    While i can agree with the principle.. none of the panelists talked about the fact we have a fat-acceptance movement, and strong pushback from crisco chicks from even pointing out that they have ZERO influence or ability to tell (or shame) men into thinking what is and isn’t acceptable body image when it comes to relationships/mating.

    I’m still leaning more towards shaming. The only way to make someone to make a positive choice is to make the negative one so extremely unpalatable that only those who ‘accept’ the negative consequences and says ‘meh.. i can live with that’ will do so.

  65. furious ferret:

    I dont think you have that right on calories in calories out. it is the gospel truth. the laws of thermodynamics are what they are. and i’m someone that eats strict paleo. I dont buy into the notion that if i just eat grass fed beef and veggies and nuts I can eat however much I want and I’ll not be fat. its just not true. i know it to not be true because i tried that for a year. if you eat 8 pieces of bacon, 6 eggs for breakfast and 16 oz steaks for dinner quite often, you’ll be quite fat.

    calories matter.

    the reason why calories in calories out isn’t widely accepted is because it is HARD.

    there is an entire movement on, where people are supremely concerned about body aesthetics to scrap all this “clean” food nonsense and focus on IIFYM or, If It Fits Your Macros.

    If you eat the appropriate amount of protein, carbs and fats it can come from any source and will have no impact on body composition. eating the right kind of calories in the right amounts is the key.

    what fat chicks in america face is that they want to eat a pint of Ben and Jerry’s and not be fat. they have no clue that one serving is ONE QUARTER OF ONE CUP and that per FDA standards, they are allowed be wrong in their calorie calculations by 20%. until people actually count the calories they consume every day, every meal, all the time (which I do), people never REALLY know what they are eating and everyone always under estimates their caloric intake.

  66. I didn’t say that the laws of thermodynamics doesn’t apply. I said that they are being simpilifed and reduced into a simple formula that while technically true is missing the forest for the trees.

    What you eat plays a role in determining the calories out portion of the equation. Calories in is easy to deduce, calories out on the other hand is much more complex. Your body has a set point that it wants to maintain and when you eat right it will naturally work to maintain a healthy set point of body fat percentage of say anywhere from 13 to 17 percent body fat.

    Show me a chimps in the wild where half of the trope is obese and the other half isn’t. I don’t think the chimp counts calories and then runs on a treadmill. He simply eats how nature said to eat and magically you have a normal weight healthy chimp.

    When you eat right, your body will work with you to determine the amount of calories that it wants and you become normal weight. You can’t determine calories out by burning the food in a metal pan. There is a point where if you want to have the adonis physique then yes you must count calories because what you are aiming for is not natural for you specific body chemistry. If you want that tight stomach with abs showing then you must dig deeper and train harder and smarter. Also, that’s what is desired having the extremely low body fat and high muscalrity so simply eating paleo won’t get you there. It will get you what is determind to be a normal weight not a ripped one.

    The problem I have with bodybuilding is the motivation factor that men have for doing it. I would say that a good amount of men are going to the gym to kill themselves to get swole simply because they think it will get them the quality ass and it’s stupid. Once you reach a certain treshold, trying to achieve the super buff look is dumb because it doesn’t add that much to your overall game.

    If you could convince every guy in the gym that looks is simply a piece of the puzzle and that Game is actually more important, I would imagine a lot men would simply stop going as much.

  67. The next time I hear a woman claim that men are shallow if they won’t date an overweight or less-than-physically-attractive women… I’m going to ask her if women are likewise shallow if they won’t date a man with no job, education, or ambition and living his mom’s basement.

  68. It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.

    That’s an insightful explanation, Rollo.

    Just as women (not men) are the primary slut shamers of other women in our society–in order to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves, women likewise regulate the sexual market through their cheer-leading of other women’s (poor) looks and weight. It’s a two-pronged effort: shame the sluts and uphold the fatties.

  69. I dont buy into the notion that if i just eat grass fed beef and veggies and nuts I can eat however much I want and I’ll not be fat

    don’t take that too literally. the ‘want’ is not what you want, it’s what your body wants.

    you might think you ‘want’ to eat a 96oz steak, but unless you’re an athlete or haven’t eaten in days, your body will not want it and you’ll have trouble actually eating all of it. this is your body regulating itself correctly when fed real food.

    there is an entire movement on, where people are supremely concerned about body aesthetics to scrap all this “clean” food nonsense and focus on IIFYM or, If It Fits Your Macros.

    a bodybuilder’s physique is not natural, so they need to take extreme measures to achieve it. this includes being very obsessive about what is eaten and when, and finding the optimal cocktail of drugs.

  70. Dear god, this post has struck home. My sister of all people (well aware of my caddish tendencies and intolerance of fatties – I work out hard, I expect the same from my women), is trying to set me up with a chick who from what I can ascertain is scraping the minimum standard of physical attractiveness (OK face, but she’s got that arm fat, one can assume she’s gonna blow up once she hits 30). Comments include: “she runs pretty much every day; her eyes are the most amazing colour, oh and she’s sooo funny.”

    I turned to her and said “for all the qualities you’ve outlined, why is she still single? And why do you think I need your help to get laid?”
    “OK I’ll leave it alone” FML

    On a side note I’ve started interjecting FB compliments circle jerks with the eloquent “2/10 would not bang” or ‘how’s the cat colony?”. I suggest people take a leaf from my book.

  71. I think ProofNeeded is right on this one. Flame away, but pretty and chubby beats ugly and slender every day of the week.

  72. i suspect shaming works better on men than it does on women for a few reasons:

    – men will be more brutally honest with their male friends when necessary. ‘dude, you need to hit the gym, you’re starting to look like jabba the hutt.’ whereas women will tend to be more supportive to other women, even if it’s to their detriment. ‘no, you look fine with 25 extra pounds.’

    – men tend to assess themselves more accurately than women. ‘fuck me, i really do look like jabba the hutt, my friends were right i should hit the gym’ vs ‘i do look fine with 25 extra pounds, in fact i look hawtter because my boobs and ass are bigger!’

    – men are better self-improvers than women. men are more likely to do the research, decide on a plan, and actually go through with it and stick with it.

    men shaming women won’t work too well. women will simply dismiss it as more patriarchal oppression. for shaming to work on women, it needs to come from other women, en masse, and it needs to be constructive. but with more and more women getting fatter and fatter, how likely is this to actually happen?

  73. @deti

    proofneeded’s example was a bit loaded though:

    choosing a female who is objectively hideous is far worse than choosing a chubby girl who is pretty

    hideous (tremendously boner killingly ugly) vs. chubby (a bit of baby fat).

    how about a girl with a slightly below average face but a rockin’ bod vs a pretty girl who weighs 500 lbs?

  74. itsme:

    of course, slightly below average face and rockin’ body beats 500 lbs.

    A pretty girl who balloons up to manatee status is no longer pretty.

    500 pounds is morbidly obese.

    “Chubby” is a little bit of baby fat, or even just plump.

  75. Erudite Knight
    Thus we have things like this where fatties are ‘hot!’
    and ‘beauty is only skin deep’.

    Hush, hush, whisper who dares .. gauchely and absentmindedlly spilling the beans, “Oh that’s just not true. You all look pretty much the same with the skin off .. “ can see one spending the rest of the evening very, very alone at the bar, and wondering if it was your aftershave or something.

  76. as if women are the only one’s over weight. Men defending not being shallow when they themselves have a beer gut, balding & what’s left is gray. hahahaha. glad I’m skinny and can laugh at these men who don’t look at themselves in the mirror to realize they are not even being truthful about how they look!! If you don’t have Trump money or look like Brad Pitt.. your not gonna pull whatever selection of girl you want. got it?

  77. I don’t agree with the premise of this post in the least bit.

    I’ve lost over 30 pounds not once but twice (I’m a male). Once I went from 240 to 155. That’s over 80 pounds. and I would get compliments from women all the time telling me I’m shrinking and I’m looking really good and that I look totally different and this was when I was down to like 200-195.

    I think you are taking the compliments way, way too literally. anyone who takes the time to lose weight all people are doing is encouraging them to keep on the right track. I know a guy who was almost 400 pounds and was wearing a size 58 pants. Over the last year he’s worked his ass off and got down to a 42 and he’s like 280 now. I and others tell him damn bro where are you going you are shrinking you are going to be a lady killer here soon.. Of course we don’t mean it literally but the dude lost 100 pounds and he has 100 to go at least to get to his goal weight.. a little encouragement goes a long way.

    Some of you are way too wrapped in this shit.

  78. I can tell you going from 297 to 223 has done wonders for how women perceive me. Some still won’t give me the time of day but many more do. I’m optimistic that in 19 more weeks, I’ll hit my goal of 180.

    I had been shamed plenty of times before and it made me feel bad. I’m with FurriousFerret in that a lot of fat people simply don’t know how to eat properly. My first serious attempt to lose weight was eating 1800 calories a day in 2 “meals” if you could call it that. One meal was a quarter pounder with cheese value meal. The rest was just as bad. Eventually I got down to 1200 calories a day and eating anything was beginning to make me ill. I stopped “dieting” and gained the 40 pounds back plus an additional 23.

    My second a few years later failed spectacularly. That led me to simply accept the fact that I could never lose the weight.

    My third attempt I follow a diet called the Eat Clean Diet. From what I’ve read about the Paleo Diet, it looks like the same thing. This success involved approaching one of the hottest girls in the gym and asking her for advice. She recommended The Eat Clean Diet and gave me a few items to buy. I’ve based my meals around them. I do love exercise so it was my nutrition that was the problem. I will forever think of her as my the best approach of my life.

    I guess you could say that Game made me lose weight 😉

  79. Agree with @ProofNeeded and @deti.

    I’ll go further and say I got no particular problem with the gal in the picture. Don’t all rush to tell me I’m a sick freak. As someone suggested up the line somewhere about the manosphere position on women who are not classical beauties, who have a few extra pounds, short hair, or other strikes against: it’s all good fun for winding up the right sort of people that we love to wind up; but if we get real about things, just amongst ourselves, real women like slim-tank picture girl are acceptable to most of us. Damn sight better than fapping to teh p0rn.

    So sez I anyway, ymmv.

  80. You just gotta love how most women rate 80% of men as below average, and then complain that the other 20% are shallow when they date hotter women…

  81. @Retrenched – You just gotta love how most women rate 80% of men as below average, and then complain that the other 20% are shallow when they date hotter women…

    A sad fact of life!!!

  82. @ Michael of Charlotte, 120 lbs. is that the old or new skinny? Typical.. dish it out and can’t take it dude. Denial.

  83. The hypothetical “500 pound pretty girl” should have a BMI of 20, yeah? Then she would have to be … 9 1/2 feet tall.

  84. Women telling each other they look just great after gaining 40 pounds and getting a short haircut is merely the usual psyops. Like telling your friend to divorce that boring beta. Hey, what’s the downside? For me?

    (I sometimes ponder what a woman reeeally means when she says or writes “no more games”. Probably not what the unwary man thinks.)

  85. How deep the rabbit hole goes .

    I’ve often wondered why the sisterhood encouraged fatness and unhealthy living amongst its peers , I had previously concluded that it was some kind of supportive “spare her feelings ” kind of sentiment. But rather, as Rollo points out, the fatkini shows are about lowering the bar to make males less selective, simultaneously easing the competition for the prize males by offering nothing but weighty options.

    You’re a genius Rollo.
    Thank you for what you do with it.

  86. The dirty secret the fat acceptance movement won’t cop to is that fatties are as repulsed by fatties as skinny people.

    What fatties want is world where god-looking skinny people want to fuck fatties. That’s

    Want proof?

    Next time a fatty tells you that being fat is sexy and beautiful, suggest she find the nearest fat boy and promise him the hottest, dirtiest sex of his life.

    The look she’ll give you will confirm she’s as little interested in being a chubby chaser as any skinny person.

    If fatties don’t accept other fatties, I see no reason why I should.

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