When I was detailing the landscape of our contemporary sexual marketplace in Navigating the SMP there comes a point on women’s SMV (sexual market value) progression where she becomes cognizant of her SMV decline and impending date with The Wall. Generally this occurs in women’s late 20’s and possibly early 30’s but as a rough estimate on the graph I provided in that post, this is the point of transition at which women realize their decaying capacity to hypergamously compete with women in their sexual primes, and the point at which men are beginning to realize their own increasing SMV potential. I dubbed this intersection the point of Comparative SMV. It’s also important to note that this phase conveniently coincides with the social convention of women’s mythical biological clock. (more on this later).
The Epiphany Phase
I’ve previously described this phase as a parallel to men’s feminine-redefined midlife crisis. This is a precarious time for women, usually the years between 28 and 30, where she makes attempts to reassess the last decade of her life. Women’s psychological rationalization engine (a.k.a. the Hamster) begins a furious effort to account for, and explain to her reasonings for not having successfully secured a long term monogamous commitment from as Alpha a man as her attractiveness could attain for her. Even women married prior to this phase will go through some variation of self-doubt, or self-pity in dealing with the hypergamic uncertainty of her choice (“Is he really the best I could do?”)
It’s during this stage that women will make radical shifts in their prioritization of what prerequisite traits qualify as ‘attractive’ in a man and attempt to turn over a new leaf by changing up their behaviors to align with this new persona they create for themselves. Since the physicality, sexual prowess and Alpha dominance that made up her former arousal cues in a Man aren’t as forthcoming from men as when she was in her sexual prime, she reprioritizes them with (presumed) preferences for more intrinsic male attributes that stress dependability, provisioning capacity, humor, intellect, and esoteric definitions of compatibility and intimacy.
For the spiritually inclined woman (which is to say most women) this may manifest in a convenient return to convictions she’d disregarded since her adolescence. For other’s it may be some kind of forced celibacy; a refusal to have sex under the hypergamic auspices of her ‘party years’ in the hopes that a well provisioning male (the ones not realizing their own potential SMV as yet) will appreciate her for her prudence – so unlike herself and all of the other girls who rejected him over the last decade.
The self-affirming psychological schema is one where she’s “finally doing the right thing”, when in fact she’s simply making the necessity of her long term provisioning and security a virtue she hopes men will appreciate. And if they don’t, then there’s always shaming them to think they’re ‘less-than-men’ for not living up to her eating her cake once she’s had it.
The Shifting Point
Case in point Hephzibah Anderson, author of the book Chastened, The Unexpected Story of My Year Without Sex. Here we have a graphic insight into the inner workings of women’s rationalization at the crossroads of acknowledging her decaying SMV, the need for long term male security, provisioning and intimacy, and realizing the necessity for a new psychological paradigm to justify her shift in behavior.
It’s easy to dismiss this interview as just another 3 women allowing their hamsters to colate on camera, but when you view this clip in a red pill context a surprising amount of information is revealed about the Epiphany Phase women experience.
We begin here with the now clichéd Kate Bolick Brand® former boyfriend-in-love regretfulness as the catalyst for Hephzibah’s newly gained insight. He’s serendipitously buying a ring for his new fiancé and the Alpha Widow mojo takes root in her psyche, “some girl found him valuable enough to marry.” She then proceeds through the predictable, “I’m 30 and need to reprioritize my life” boilerplate that’s made more than a few women authors a good deal of money writing for The Atlantic.
As I noted earlier, this phase also coincides with a woman’s sharp decline in fertility and childbearing capacity, so the instinctual urgency to breed, reinforced by the myth of the biological clock contributes to this internal crisis. All of this coalesces into some amazing feats of rationalization hamster acrobatics.
I’d thought those thoughts once or twice, but it would never have occurred to me that I’d actually go ahead and voluntarily eject sex from my life. It took a bizarre serendipity, a torrid affair and a chance anecdote to make me realize that the kind of sex I was supposed to be cool with as a post-feminist, 21st-century Western woman — a casual sort of intimacy without intimacy — was not working for me.
Better late than never right? Unfortunately no. While I’m sure this realization will seem ennobling to the more moralistically predisposed mindset, what you see now is the expectation of a new appreciation for her insight which was prompted by her need, not a genuine introspective. It’s kind of ironic in that the Chastening Hephzibah is so proud of was prompted by her own necessity.
All right, in most circumstances it’s still just about required for life’s perpetuation, but we can lead perfectly healthy and, indeed, happy existences without nooky, whoopee or bonking. People can — and do — go decades without sex. Some live their entire lives without it.
Side Note: In Girl-World a woman can electively forego sex for an entire year and it’s recognized as a sacrifice worthy of writing a book to be published by a major print publisher, while the only way a man can be recognized for his 40 year celibacy is when he enters a fitness center and guns down 7 women in a pilates class. As I’ve stated before, when a woman tells you “I don’t understand why sex is sooooo important to guys“, she’s telling you the literal truth.
Elizabeth I was known as the Virgin Queen, and there was nothing metaphorical about the title, history assures us.
Robert Dudley and a long list of the Queen’s confirmed lovers disagree. What follows here is an attempt by Hephzibah’s rationalization engine to affirm what she’d like to think is her radical decision to go abstinent – plenty of luminaries from the past have gone without and lived perfectly fine lives. What she’s in denial about is the necessity of sex in a mature human experience. Sex is the glue that holds a relationship together; without sex a woman becomes a man’s mother, sister, daughter, aunt, friend, but not his lover, and certainly not his wife. Deemphasizing the importance of sex, actively desexualizing yourself in the hopes that it will make you more sexually arousing is an effort in self-defeat.
What follows here is yet another overwritten self-examination of a woman facing the Wall and attempting to reconcile a past of eschewing offers of genuine intimacy with (albeit probably beta) guys and her own hypergamous impulses during her 20’s. When a pre-Wall Anderson makes a conscious effort to remove sex from the equation in order to bring her more “clarity” about a man’s long term value what she’s doing is attempting to dissociate hypergamy from that process. In doing so she devalues the important sexual aspect of a relationship and turns off the men she’d probably fit well with because she believes that sex is the foil in her past failures, not herself, not her ego-investments, not the delusions the feminine imperative has saddled her with. Sex isn’t her problem, her innate hypergamy will eventually reveal this to her, but it’s how she’s been doing it and the late hour at which she’s come to her “new” epiphany with all of its urgency.
Hephzibah is easy pickings for the manosphere Men with a bent for shaming women about riding the Cock Carousel (she even alludes to this in the article). That’s a given, but it’s not the operative issue I’m on about here. What her story illustrates for us is the psychological machinations behind the reconciliation of her unfulfilled hypergamy and her need for future intimacy, security and provisioning.
For red pill, Game-aware Men, this is a supremely important stage in women’s maturation to consider. A woman in the Epiphany Phase is looking for a “fresh start” for a much more visceral reason than some newly inspired sense of self. This motivation prompts all kinds of behavioral and social conventions to facilitate a man’s commitment to forgiving her past indiscretions. As Roosh has pointed out more than once, it’s women in this phase of life (or the mothers of women in this phase) who most vocally complain about men’s lack of interest in committing to them. As Hephzibah is painfully aware of, women in their peak SMV years don’t complain about a dearth of marriageable men– “Man Up” is the anthem of women in the Epiphany Phase.
“As I’ve stated before, when a woman tells you “I don’t understand why sex is sooooo important to guys“, she’s telling you the literal truth.” “Sex” is the one thing a Man wants more than anything, will do almost anything to get, makes millions, and acquires power, in order to get. I recently read a Jack Nicholson interview where the 70 year old grandmaster said: “If men are honest then everything they do in life, and everywhere they go, is really for a chance to meet women.” It’s really “Sex” that Man kills for, and dies for. Yet – “Sex”… Read more »
I recently saw a girl I had pedestalized for several years. She lives in Europe and turned 30 this year. It must have been a combination of becoming game-aware this past year and the rapidly-advancing wall, because the beauty I thought she possessed had faded dramatically. I could see the lines on her face, her skin had lost its glow and her curves weren’t what I remembered. Thanks for teaching us the concept of SMV Rollo. I feel like I dodged a bullet. I recently learned that the conservative philosopher, Russell Kirk, married his wife when he was 42 and… Read more »
“while the only way a man can be recognized for his 40 year celibacy is when he enters a fitness center and guns down 7 women in a pilates class”
A certain George Sodini comes to mind.
{Ding! Ding! Ding! Tell hime what he’s won Johnny,..]
As i’ve been saying as of late.. a woman trying to retcon her reasoning for why she’s still single when hitting the wall and all of a sudden valuing commitment over enjoying the single party life she previously enjoyed is not value at all.
It’s commitment under duress.
I have coined the phrase “MILF-life Crisis” to describe this phenomena…I think it is accurate and highly effective when arguing with some harpie about how baaad men’s mid-life crises are…use it as you see fit, gents.
“Side Note: In Girl-World a woman can electively forego sex for an entire year and it’s recognized as a sacrifice worthy of writing a book to be published by a major print publisher, while the only way a man can be recognized for his 40 year celibacy is when he enters a fitness center and guns down 7 women in a pilates class.” I’d like to add that most women can electively forgo it by choice, knowing they can if they so choose, jump off the celibacy train at any time the urge becomes too great. There’s a reason the… Read more »
When my car was 12 years old, it no longer ran that well and I didn’t like to take it to exotic faraway places, so suddenly all the little local places I’d ignored for years seemed REALLY COOL.
It’s an analogy.
Ah it’s nice to have hand, red pill knowledge, and equity now.
When a guy turns 30…it’s like when a girl turns 15-19.
For Hephzibah:
Prob(anal) = (0.075)(# of drinks) + (0.6)/(# of dates)
Q.E.D.
For women I’d put having sex as much of an accomplishment as breathing or eating.
I’d like to point out that Hephzibah Anderson has a Man Jaw with a sprinkle of Cleft Chin, which knock her down a few points on the smv scale. She is most likely suffering from an overinflated perceived estimate of her own smv based on the Alpha pump and dumps back in her 20’s. This is a big problem among many women in her age group, the failure to reestimate their real time smv. They remain delusional thinking they still “have it” because alphas willingly still sex them up, but won’t accept the beta provider and remain in an aging… Read more »
Here’s how you know a woman is in this phase. “I’m tired of the games.” “I’m not like that anymore.” “I just want a nice guy who will treat me right.” “I want to do it the right way this time.” “I want to wait with you. You’re special. You’re not like all those other guys.” “Don’t want no playas.” She used to like jocks, or meathead gym rats, or local garage band members. Now, she’s decided that she’s really attracted to pudgy accountants. She has a track record of failed relationships and ONSs, but now has decided she wants… Read more »
“Then they rationalize it all and blame men for failing to Man Her Up!”
Or something goes awry in their rationalization process and they suddenly go full retard with religion. I’ve seen it happening.
Oh wait, I seen deti has already touched the subject above me.
I suppose the male equivalent of this would be a man who was a multi-millionaire at 22 who blew all his money on supermodels and finds himself broke at 35. Now with no money in the bank and a $20/hr factory job, he’s suddenly willing to consider the ordinary women he ignored back when he was rich and could pull 9s and 10s. I’m sure such a man would find plenty of women willing to give him a chance now that he’s “learned from his mistakes” and “found himself”. Even though he wouldn’t be able to give them any expensive… Read more »
All true Rollo…An uncle who is a behavioral therapist has told me girls who are or near 30 years old walk into his office in droves, sobbing they they aren’t married yet.
“She used to like jocks, or meathead gym rats, or local garage band members. Now, she’s decided that she’s really attracted to pudgy accountants.”
^ winner
Understanding women as they begin to rot gives you power over them? Imagine instead a schoolgirl, smart, tall and beautiful, physically mature and with an understanding of people. – The little boys that talk nonsense at her, trying to build rapport. Not interesting, but better than the others who wince at her presence. – The ‘cocky’ guys who spout lewd inanities at other girls, who squeal with excitement in turn. No interest. Don’t even talk to me. – The teachers, cops and adults who think their authority gives them a right to a conversation. Proving to themselves they can influence… Read more »
@deti
You know I think that wouldn’t be so bad if it didn’t end so much in “I had a couple of kids, now it’s time to take my cash and prizes and hunt for some hotter cock now”.
It’s like being divorced is way better than being never married and of course she wants to some rugrats, so a sucker is found, used and discarded.
The majority of men in the Duluth Model Family Law court systems know this well. The hard part is the fact that once you are in the pit. Realising that you are there and how to last it out so that you don’t get burned before you are disgarded. Children keep you vulnerable and alot of men find out too late that by walking out of the family home you are placing your mental stability and testicles in the feminist Guillotine. Most married men only become red pill aware after they have been disgarded (Divorced after having their genetic material… Read more »
In truth, the heroine has realized that the men she fucked in her 20s were just that: fucks. That’s all they wanted from her, even if she wanted more than that from most of them. She looks back on her life and realizes to her horror that she was little more than a life support system for an easily-obtained vagina to the men she gave her most valuable commodity. She looks back on her 20s and realizes she is a failure. She has nothing to show for the last 10 years of her life: no education, no savings, no decent… Read more »
“She is most likely suffering from an overinflated perceived estimate of her own smv … This is a big problem among many women in her age group, the failure to reestimate their real time smv. They remain delusional” Truth. If you watch the video, one of the hosts says something like: “There’s so much sex in our society, and so little romance” and the author agrees, saying: “by putting it slightly out of reach, you savor the journey there” So let’s get this straight: She was a “late-starter”… hence as a young woman she invested highly in her own self-perceived… Read more »
I was under the impression Queen Elizabeth never married to always have that carrot of possibility when negotiating with other nations.
Ferret: “It’s like being divorced is way better than being never married” Well, yes. We men forget sometimes how important the status of marriage is to a woman; the status that marriage gives her. Even having been married once and then divorced elevates her status even if she never secures commitment from a man again. Because she was able to do it once, it forever solidifies her value. “I AM WORTHY, DAMMIT! I MATTER! I AM A WIFE! I’M NOT JUST A FUCKBUDDY OR A SEMEN RECEPTACLE!” Some man somewhere thought her worthy enough to put a ring on her… Read more »
“Romance” is simply showing that you value that woman and don’t view her as a whore to fuck. When you know the girl is an unpaid whore, how the hell do you romance that? Romance is dead for the red pill man. That’s the ultimate price you pay for seeing the cold hard reality of human sexuality because you are forced to to surive in this fucked SMP. Personally, I like honest women. These days I find myself more comfortable with ‘trashy’ girls because they are honest. They don’t put on airs. It feels more real. They don’t simply follow… Read more »
This phase is responsible for the “born-again virgins” movement, which is so laughable that it is barely worth ridicule. It also reminds me about the parable about how the diligent stores up for winter, while the sluggard sleeps and slacks. Then, when winter comes, the sluggard’s need comes upon him like an armed man. Women need to know, when they are young and sexy, that winter is coming, and their needs will be dire. Most of all, they need to know that the white-knights will not be there for her then. They like to rescue damsels, not nasty whores. And… Read more »
D-Man, Excellent point re: romance. In the video clip I believe the author says we (women) have a right to romance. A right? A f**king right!?
Your question:
Q. “What is it, exactly, that they profess to contribute to it ????????”
A. Absolutely nothing.
I’ve been waiting twenty-five years for my steak dinner, wine and mood lighting. At this rate, it ain’t never gonna happen.
@Mebus: you NEVER go full retard!
No, furious. In seduction, you must treat a whore like a good girl, and a good girl like a whore. Not much different then seducing married women (be the opposite of their husband which isn’t hard) If you can stomach it. There are guys that do this, a little older, they go around and act like they’re looking for a wife. They play the sucker for the female cons out there, and reel them in. Then the women rage afterwards, or feel betrayed. It doesn’t take long for the “keep out of reach” girls to give in if they think… Read more »
This switch often gets re-thrown after she’s married, reverting back to her behavior in her 20’s. After about 15 years of married bliss she hits 45 and suddenly gets the urge to “Find herself”, generally in the arms of another man and invariably some “Soul mate” old boyfriend who treated her like crap from high school she hooks up with via facebook.
Women have a right to romance…ha! Thanks Disney princesses and trashy rom coms for giving women that idea.
Highlander
December 19th, 2012 at 3:00 pm
“This switch often gets re-thrown after she’s married, reverting back to her behavior in her 20′s. After about 15 years of married bliss she hits 45 and suddenly gets the urge to “Find herself”, generally in the arms of another man and invariably some “Soul mate” old boyfriend who treated her like crap from high school she hooks up with via facebook.”
This is the female mindset in a nutshell.
All I can say is enjoy the decline (financially and otherwise) and decide if you want to practice polygamy; women in the not-so-distant-future will throw themselves at the most viable man when ish hits the fan.
I wish I could be more amazed right now that there’s so much anger and women bashing as a result of this article. Guys on this thread; if you’re wondering why women have been turning you down, I’m pretty sure that it’s NOT because you caught them during a different point in their cycle.
Everyone is responsible for doing their own introspection, and keeping themselves accountable for what they really think/feel (as well as the actual reasons they think/feel that way). I suggest you fellas “man up” and take another look in the mirror.
@Furious: Romance is dead for the red pill man. I disagree, but not for the reasons you stated. The problem being that women fundamentally don’t know what romance is. The True Romantics Women do not appreciate planned, romantic gestures. I’m sure this guy thought he was being brilliant by noticing how she cuts a cupcake – “girls like it when guys pay attention to the little things, ‘other guys’ don’t listen to women, I’ll show her I’m unique,..” What most men and all women don’t understand is that the things a woman finds romantic are rarely ever planned. Your sweaty… Read more »
Assuming that we’re talking strictly about “romance” as it is currently defined As Seen On TV: The things that are viewed as romantic by much of our society are defined and determined by the companies that most greatly benefit from those ideas being adopted. Jewelry, greeting card, floral arrangement, stuffed animal, lingerie and travel businesses rake in billions because of this. Is it any wonder that many men are having trouble getting genuine affection using these methods? They weren’t created by women, they were created by marketing departments. And when you add the fact that many men use these methods… Read more »
“There’s so much sex in our society, and so little romance”
Well, yeah. That’s what happens when guys who bring the romance get friend-zoned, and guys who go for the sex right away get laid like gangbusters.
Women get more of what they sleep with, and less of what they friend-zone. Then they complain that they get too much of what they sleep with, and not enough of what they friend-zone.
Sorry honey, you got exactly what you ordered.
@InfoMatron “if you’re wondering why women have been turning you down” That’s not even the point of this article. Nobody here is complaining about not being able to pull, we are complaining that these women are soul sucking self-servering whores like the chick in the video that does a transformation conviently when she begins the decline into unattractiveness. Why is it that women will always go ‘You are just losers that can’t get laid’ to every single article when a) that’s not even true and b) the post has nothing to do what that. It’s just highlighting the complete and… Read more »
@InfoMatron, I understand that in girl-world it’s difficult for women to dissociate anything objectively critical of the feminine from anger when it’s men doing the critique, but try to think of it less as anger and more as a discussion in precautionary information for men.
“Why is it that women will always go ‘You are just losers that can’t get laid’ to every single article when a) that’s not even true and b) the post has nothing to do what that.”
Just feminist bolierplate nonsense. Next up will be that we are “creepy”, “old bitter losers” who are over- compenstating with bad boy bluster because we’re all ashamed and terrified that we have “small dicks”.
“I suggest you fellas “man up” and take another look in the mirror.”
Tell ya what…why don’t you tell your sisters to “woman up”. That would fix the problem a lot quicker.
I couldn’t agree with you more. So when a woman writes a book and goes on national TV to explain the process of her introspection it is incumbent upon me to critically dissect and consider the machinations behind that process and hold myself accountable for allowing her convenient rationales for it from affecting me.
Which is exactly what I’ve done here.
🙂 But taterearl, don’t you know that womaning up means no longer being Strong and Independent®? This poor woman will instantly become a Doormat® upon which the bad mens will stomp all over, thereby negating in a nanosecond, any sense of You Go Grrrrrrl!® empowerment.
Nothing more effective to cause some flutter in the dovecote than using the sexual deprivation/frustration argument. Well played, InfoMatron, well played…
For women I’d put having sex as much of an accomplishment as breathing or eating.
Yeah, but in our minds it doesn’t count unless it’s with a man we want to have sex with. We just have a really hard time with the “in our minds” part.
“don’t you know that womaning up means no longer being Strong and Independent®? This poor woman will instantly become a Doormat® upon which the bad mens will stomp all over, thereby negating in a nanosecond, any sense of You Go Grrrrrrl!® empowerment.”
Yup :).
the woman in the clip is ruined. as a guy, i value sweetness, kindness and innocence as qualities for a relationship that will be sustainable in a girl, and i think that she is trying to reclaim those qualities by taking on a different strategy which involves publicly professing her celibacy to get that, but its like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube, once innocence is gone its not coming back. she spewed it away and it will be extremely hard for her to play her way into a lifelong fulfilling relationship, I wouldn’t say she’s hit the… Read more »
“Please, enlighten me as to why you personally believe that women deserve to be insulted and derided for *any* of these choices. ” Because you are causing the downfall of western civlization you fucking morons. Women wanting a career for God know what reasons, when I am basically forced to have a career because as guy I have to earn to have any type of value to society. Women have it simply because some ugly warpigs convinced the rest of the herd that careers were awesome simply because said warpigs had to work because no decent guy wanted them. You… Read more »
Yeeeaaahhh… obviously not coming from anger, there.
The mirror comment stands.
“I hate to break it to you, but… she doesn’t feel that way about you, and she’s under no obligation to. End of story. And honestly, you being bitter about that and using it as a reason/excuse to never do something nice for other women later on AND to paint all women as whores who have no right to complain after they’ve chosen someone else who didn’t work out just proves to me that she was probably right to pass you over. It’s not all about you, man.” This is fun. I hate to break it to you, but …… Read more »
@deti: I don’t know about “fun”, but it certainly is interesting! I was responding directly to a comment made about “friendzoning”: you are making quite a few erroneous assumptions about me and attempting to insult me with them while completely sidestepping what I said (and, added bonus, finishing up with a value judgement based on said erroneous information). If you really need to make yourself feel like you’re “winning” a discussion by making things up and ignoring what the other person has to say, then there’s not really a point in continuing, is there? @Days of Broken Arrows: You bring… Read more »
I suppose the male equivalent of this would be a man who was a multi-millionaire at 22 who blew all his money on supermodels and finds himself broke at 35. Now with no money in the bank and a $20/hr factory job, he’s suddenly willing to consider the ordinary women he ignored back when he was rich and could pull 9s and 10s.
the man, with enough hard work and perseverance, can recover.
the woman, on the other hand, cannot unhit the wall. she cannot unride the carousel.
bernankification is eternal.
“MILF-life Crisis”
That means you at least like them in one way.
I use “spinster on psychiatric medication.” The last one I used it on took a step backward, her eyebrows shot up to her hair line, and she screamed, “You’re not married!!!”
Only when you push the envelope do you get the truth. She was projecting her problems on me.
InfoMatron is likely reacting to my observation and you all got thrown into the angry/rejected camp.
Well, I’m off to go look in the mirror then Man Up! Anyone else care to join?
Infomatron: “A note on “friendzoning”, since it came up: I hate to break it to you, but… she doesn’t feel that way about you, and she’s under no obligation to.” Then encourage your feminista sistas to be honest about that instead of mealymouthing it with “Let’s just be friends”. I’d have more respect for women if they’d just say what they really mean, which is “I don’t like you, you’re disgusting and the thought of having sex with you is making me throw up in my mouth. Please, I’m trying to let you down easy in a way that doesn’t… Read more »
InfoMatron: “The things that are viewed as romantic by much of our society are defined and determined by the companies that most greatly benefit from those ideas being adopted….Is it any wonder that many men are having trouble getting genuine affection using these methods?” Yes it is because these were the very things that worked for our mothers, grandmothers, and before that. The fact that women react cynically, indifferently, or with hostility to age-old tradition is proof that feminism and the culture of entitlement has poisoned their souls. Also, marketing execs did not DEVISE things like jewelry and flowers —… Read more »
So I ask: “What the hell happened to women?”
they manned up.
Oh man, this is just getting good and I have to go. 🙁 Well, I’ll just man-up® on the way home from work. Maybe check my trap line, and shoot a couple of pheasants or a wild turkey for supper tonite. You know, the usual stuff.
If one was to flip through the Sunday papers and pause at the wedding photos and scan the ages you can see evidence of the woman who has successfully found an out at this juncture of her life. The couples where she is around 30, plus or minus a few years and he is almost always younger and green looking. She is mostly a bit better looking then he could have wished for (even though she shows signs of looking tired, a choice cut of mutton – possibly a little smoked, sun dried and pickled – but hey in a… Read more »
I wonder if the celibacy is just a rationalization for the offers drying up, an ego protective measure.
Some women just hit the wall harder while others breeze past it.
Two important things InfoMatron is missing. (and yes, I admit to being angry–I devoted most of my life to doing what I thought was right by women and got NOTHING in return) 1. As loud as she bitches about us, I bet just about any of the dudes here could easily bang her if they met her in person, however… 2. She’s exactly the type of woman we want to avoid. We don’t give a damn what she thinks because she’s obviously obnoxious and unpleasant. If she’s physically attractive (which I doubt), she’d be good for a pump and dump… Read more »
@InfoMatron
You’re speaking from a place of cats.
“For women I’d put having sex as much of an accomplishment as breathing or eating.” -taterearl This is something I’ve been thinking about lately, regarding sex, gatekeeping, power, and manipulation in relationships… (InfoMatron, you might want to skip to the next post….) The real magic of sex is my erection. A woman can choose to have sex even if her body doesn’t feel like it. She’s DTF but a bit dry? Just keep pushing, it’ll go in eventually. In ascending order of preference, spit, lube, or virgin coconut oil can ease entry. The act can be performed. A girl can… Read more »
Martel,
That Roosh article is fantastic. I’ll admit I was a bit surprised.
lol, infomatron’s the same guy who’s trolled here previously from his cubicle at the dell call center in bangalore. you may remember him from such aliases as ‘hopeless romantic’, ‘sexual marxism’, and more recently on heartsie’s as ‘feministx’.
@infomatron
my dell laptop is making these beeping sounds when i hit the power button. the screen stays black and the fans spin up really fast like a jet engine and it stays like that. thanks for any help bro.
“Maybe you’ll get lucky in the end.”
If “luck” means having to deal with endlessly verbose feminists who invade male spaces and think they can “scold” men using every cliche in the book, please mark me down for ETERNAL BAD LUCK.
We’ve already swallowed this word salad and choked on it: NAWALT (not all women are like that, feminism is about “equality” (hahahahahaha), man-up, etc.
All together now, in three-part harmony: don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.
Any comments?
http://gawker.com/5969878/nice-guys-of-ok-cupid-are-not-really
I assume the above Gawker link will leave them open to a lawsuit. As far as I know, you can lampoon public figures but doing so to individuals is considered libel, because you can damage their reputation and livelihoods. IMO putting a profile on OKCupid doesn’t make you a public figure.
If anyone knows better, please let me know.
And if it’s not illegal, then I request that this blog do the same with women’s profiles, many of which are far worse than the ones of guys Gawker pictured.
Why even response to InfoMatron ?
you’re not gonna change her mind and in her mind she has the blog and the men here pegged as being bitter.
@AD
This is the standard backlash for men judging woman and complaining about their sex life.
A big example are the words from a woman Rollo overheard and talked about in his article “Play Nice”, guys are supposed to simply take their constant rejection and walk away.
I just did some manning up at the gym. Lifted some weights, punched a dude, then made a woman submit to my needs so I could prove to feminists how much of a man I am.
Seriously though…feminists can’t have their cake and eat it too. You want to act and be like men, yet you shame men into manning up so you can get your womanly tingles. It has to be one or the other.
InfoTroll: 1. Your statement of “Who would want a burger every day if you suddenly find out that you could get sushi or pumpkin ravioli instead?” only proves the entire point of this post. Women in their 20s have been gorging themselves on sushi and pumpkin ravioli which they really can’t afford, then settling for a lifetime of the burgers they actually CAN afford around age 30. You won’t get the metaphor; but the men will. Enjoy your “options” — that is, until you find they are no longer options. 2. Traditions become so because they work best for the… Read more »
@deti…she’s probably just emoting :).
@InfoTroll: “And on that note: “feminism” gets thrown around fairly often as a boogieman for a lot of things, but since all it is really supposed to encompass is the idea that women are full and equal human beings with men (mostly when the discussion about pay for work and rights come up), I have a hard time understanding why this is the case. Do men really and truly have a problem with women being treated equally, and being equal control over themselves and their own lives? If so, why? And no I’m not trying to be inflammatory, I honestly… Read more »
No, Phinn. If you don’t agree with Info, you’re obviously a woman hating, misogynistic, chauvinist pig who wants to chain women to stoves and keep them barefoot and pregnant. You obviously are a “NiceGuy”(TM) that expects hot women to love you because you brought her a box of chocolates. If you were HAWWWT, the woman would be blowing you in the bar bathroom. But because you’re not HAWWT in her estimation, you’re “creepy” and “not entitled” to anything from a woman. It’s not about women demanding what they want and demanding that laws be changed to accommodate their every whim.… Read more »
@deti True enough. The point isn’t that women have a duty to sleep with nice but unattractive men who are sexually interested in them; that’s a ridiculous straw man and a non sequitor to boot. It’s that women will say they want one type of man, and then reject that very type of man in favor of someone who’s quite the opposite. And then later complain that they can’t find any men like the ones they friend-zone left and right. So eventually unsuccessful men adapt and adjust to this, and start giving women what they really want, instead of what… Read more »
“The act of sex – and the continuation of the species – CANNOT happen without genuine masculine desire. THIS is what is of immense value.” Interesting point.
I don’t really understand why anybody would be against a woman choosing celibacy. If they have a history of carousing, isn’t this an improvement? An end to the cycle?
“If they have a history of carousing, isn’t this an improvement? An end to the cycle?”
It stops a self-destructive trend…but it’s not an improvement. Your N goes with you until you die.
@HopelessInfoASexualMarxistBitch: “Do men really and truly have a problem with women being treated equally, and being equal control over themselves and their own lives? If so, why?”
Not necessarily, but women do because they don’t boff guys who believe in “equality.”
What cracked me up about that Nice Guy flow chart is that it basically denigrates every type of guy alive except the lowest, most herbish, worm.
Btw, I’m thinking of starting up a gym called Angles for Men. Anyone wanna go in?
Hephzibah Anderson reminds me of a particular kind of kid caught shoplifting or committing some other sort of crime. He’s not sorry for committing the crime per se. He’s just sorry he got caught–that the cops showed up to remind him of the unalterable fact that actions entail consequences. I dunno. Maybe in that interview Anderson indeed says she truly laments her time on the carousel. But for most women i know, the hamster has to thread between an odd Charybdis and Scylla–two menacing psychological forces. She can’t condemn her own past promiscuity entirely. And never can she reveal it… Read more »
This term “nice guy” has been alluded to a few times on here. I’m just wondering what constitutes one. Is “nice guy” merely a euphemism? Say a man was considered boring. Girls would label him as this even if he isn’t actually nice, right? Is it just how a guy acts? If a man was short, fat, broke, average-looking, he’d just be called a “nice guy” and that’s that, right? Or is it a guy who can’t say no because that’s apparently something a woman doesn’t respect even if she can benefit big from being with a wimp like him?… Read more »
I feel like a gay for even pointing this out (not that there’s anything wrong with that), but I think guys have it wrong when they say women can have sex whenever they want and guys can’t. The problem isn’t so clear-cut. Guys could have sex whenever they want, it would just have to be with some very undesirable women. Women can have sex whenever they want, but they also face a dilemma: they can’t always demand the attention of non-committing alphas they desire, and even if they could they won’t get what they really want – commitment. This doesn’t… Read more »
From what I have seen off experience:
Men think nice guy = treats women with respect and reverence…gives her a helping hand all for the reward of her pussy
Women think nice guy = weak and can be used for whatever I want except my pussy
Great Article Rollo, I enjoy these types of post because I seem to be running into these women a lot now a days maybe it’s because I’m in my late 20’s and now I understand the dynamic more than ever. Deti also hit the nail on the head, all those quotes you see those headlines on your Plenty of Fail dating websites etc, girls who have been shitted on, it’s amazing once you understand and are able to disscet women’s double speak. Not the jack the post, but I recently hung out with one of these types. She was early… Read more »
IrishFarmer: I agree that guys could have more sex if they had no standards, but women would still have more. Furthermore, women are less likely to lower their standards until the wall smacks them upside the head. I forgot the study, but somewhere I read that when men are in an environment with very few attractive women, they simply lower their standards. When women are around no attractive men, they keep their standards high. I’ve seen this phenomenon both in Korea in the Army and while living in an engineering school college town in Germany. In both cases, you’d see… Read more »
“It’s been fun, guys. Do yourselves a favour: try to use introspection instead of anger, and thoughtfulness instead of false accusation/expectation when it comes to dealing with other people… and vary up your routine if something isn’t working for you. I guarantee that it’ll be a lot more helpful than just getting mad at every woman you’ve never met, and who knows? Maybe you’ll get lucky in the end. Ciao!” @InfoTroll Don’t be cunty. Nobody here is going to take your point seriously if you group everyone here into a category and then use communication tactics little girls use on… Read more »
@InfoTroll – a pretty good attempt at shaming and pressing our buttons (the classic female Blame Shame Maim game). I especially enjoyed the twisting little dig of the patronising final words: “Maybe you’ll get lucky in the end.” It did get under some of our skins, as evidenced by some of us bothering to attempt to explain to you the reasons for how we are. Even though we should know better than attempting to explain anything in a logical manner to a solipsistic female. Because we know that it simply isn’t possible, it’s like explaining taste to a dead man… Read more »
@Rollo
That was fun lol She’s banned me yet again. I wrote a whole rebuttal quoting pualingo for each step of her description of that guy’s pickup an’ everything! :'( I hope you do an article about that whole gongshow.
For the unaware:
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/12/18/hookinguprealities/beautiful-women-must-try-harder/#comment-175644
http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/12/18/hookinguprealities/beautiful-women-must-try-harder/#comment-175824
<3
InfoTroll’s last response works best if you read it aloud in the pretentious, high-pitched voice of Lovey from Gilligan’s Island. Anyone remember her?
A common theme in the ‘sphere is that a woman wastes the best years of her 20s enjoying the alpha carousel before hitting the wall in her 30s when she starts looking for a provider. I’m really curious as to how prevalent this is. I’m wondering what percentage of single women did the carousel thing versus having a few LTRs that didn’t work out, or any other number of possibilities. Going by the comments I read, it seems like EVERY single woman in her 30s has taken the same path of 20s – carousel, 30s – stable provider seeking. On… Read more »
“On the topic of careers: I don’t understand why having a career is such an appeal.” It’s not. But it’s what women today (and in the past few generations) were raised to do. So they do it. The Army is also no fun, but boys who come from “military families” are expected to serve. I remember calling a girl circa 1998. Her sis answered and said she couldn’t take my call because he dad was yelling at her about “what she was going to do with her life.” I didn’t question this then. But today I would. Anyway…she was a… Read more »
ace haley: “Nice guy” in the feminist sphere has a specific meaning. It means a man who treats women well, showering her with gifts and attention, doting on her, but it’s all a Trojan horse to get sex. In this narrative he plays nice, but when the inevitable LJBF happens, he goes ballistic. He threatens her, stalks her, trash talks her to other guys and to her friends, calls her a bitch, etc. According to the feminist narrative, this “niceguy” isn’t really a nice guy at all, but is a creepy, threatening, potential rapist/murderer who feels entitled to sex with… Read more »
Yeah, I call bullshit on that. It’s just more hamsterbation to avoid admitting that they are only turned on by Alpha’s. There has been so much bad press lately in response to ” where have all the good men gone” articles they are scrambling to find an excuse for not dating guys who don’t bend them over garbage cans behind the club.They are finally being called on Hypergamy and they don’t like it a bit.
A nice guy = a good person you aren’t attracted to.
A good guy = a good person you are attracted to.
Hope that’s as clear as mud 🙂
@ Irish farmer, Martel An interesting point to ponder on that topic, from the Danimal archive: For a woman. Does it occur to you that your surplus of possibilities and choices can only exist if a corresponding number of men have a shortfall of possibilities and choices? Learn something about how markets work. If the market is great for farmers, it is terrible for people who buy food from farmers. If the average woman has many more sexual opportunities than she cares to pursue, that means the average man is having many of his desires for sex frustrated. Therefore he… Read more »
@ Kate
Yeah, from my experience most normal women (i.e. not feminists) use the term “nice guy” to refer to good, decent men who don’t offend them but don’t turn them on either. It’s a polite term for guys they don’t find very attractive.
In other words, it’s not that these men are unattractive because they’re nice, necessarily — rather, women call them “nice” because they don’t think they’re attractive.
George Clooney seems like a pretty nice man, but do you think “nice” is the first word that women think of when his name is mentioned? Probably not.
I have to say, pot of gold with the comments here.
I work with the Harpie anderson types, and every day is a new reason for “why i’m amazing (cue false confidence boosts from chorus of de wymmnz), and how he doesn’t deserve me (blah blah male shaming)”. Then they ask me why I do not pursue these prized dolls. With my red pill frames, all I see are walled up walrus wenches.
Also.. interesting Colbert interview with Harpie.
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/341471/july-26-2010/hephzibah-anderson
(spoiler alert)
apparently third base does not count as sex. she portrays herself as a nun, but in reality, has been dipping in the carousel all along…
I always wondered if John Dee and Queen Elizabeth had a fling.
“@infomatron
my dell laptop is making these beeping sounds when i hit the power button. the screen stays black and the fans spin up really fast like a jet engine and it stays like that. thanks for any help bro.”
Fantastic retort.
Very timely. Rather than comment on the theory, I’ll share my recent experience and my reaction. I gamed a 28 year old only child, entitled girl. First date she was grilling me about my sexual openness and whether I was serious about relationships etc etc etc. I stated: “With the right person, anything can happen.” Deflected her shit tests, moved in for the k-close. This sparked serious attraction. Second date, amped it up. She was still talking about being ‘Very cautious” etc etc…but had a major make out in a bar and street and then she confessed various kinky preferences… Read more »
Intimacy I can understand, but the need for security and provisioning? I can’t understand this from a successful, modern woman. With more then half of all college/uni degrees going to the modern woman, and their ability to scale the highest peaks in business, why would they br needing security and provisioning?
^ It’s a woman thing but a man shouldn’t worry about that. Men don’t owe women provision. They don’t owe them protection. They don’t owe them children. They don’t owe them families. With how women get most college degrees and get paid the same while working less hours at less dangerous jobs, I’m astonished at how men still pay for everything. I get that not every man has the resolve to say no to the possibility of a quick one but seriously, this is pathetic. There’s a time when a man has to say, “why is that when it comes… Read more »
Fascinating article Rollo. I’d say one of the greatest impacts that the Manosphere has had on my thinking is the way I view age. This is largely influenced by you, as I have previously written! 3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2012/08/20/manosphere-female-age-and-sexual-market-value/
I used to think women at 30 were incredibly hot. Some still are, but more than ever I notice their wrinkles, white hairs etc… I’m sure they do too, which is part of what sends them into a tiz. Will be including this article in my next Manosphere examination of the subject!
@ Infotroll It’s pretty common for women to assume that feminism is about equality for women. After all that’s what THEY get out of it…equality at work, and special treatment from the government and blue pill men. You complain about our anger without attempting to see the world from our point of view. For instance, what have you studied about how feminism treats men? As a man raised by a self-described feminist, I can tell you that the primary training is to be kind to women and listen to their stated needs at all times. This assumes women are rational… Read more »
deti: “According to the feminist narrative, this “niceguy” isn’t really a nice guy at all, but is a creepy, threatening, potential rapist/murderer who feels entitled to sex with her because he was “nice” and kind and deferential.”
Yes, but my question is how many of these men actually exist? They can’t be all that common.