Hear Me Now, Believe Me Later

One of the most common lamentations I read in the manosphere usually goes something like this,…

“Where the hell was all this info and wisdom when I was single? I so wish I’d discovered the manosphere / red pill before I proposed / had kids / got divorced / got burned by listening to what my girlfriend said / was younger,..etc. etc.”

It’s even more of a shame because so often it’s guys in what should be the prime of their SMV who relate this. I wish I had a better response than “better late than never.”

Blunt Force Trauma

Unplugging is difficult enough in and of itself, but realizing and accepting that your previous mindset might not be entirely accurate is a hard conversation to have with yourself. It’s unfortunate that experience teaches harsh, but teaches best. However, I’ve found it much healthier to accept that, like the majority of  men, we don’t want to come to terms with  our faults and inaccuracies in mindset until we’re shaken awake by a trauma sufficient enough to break us down.

Religion has long realized that the best opportunity for conversion is when a person is at a low point in their life. Depending upon the intentions of the person doing the converting this can be a good or a bad thing, but what they’re seizing upon is a point at which we’re the most receptive to influence because we’re earnestly reconsidering our beliefs in light of some failure or tragedy. Perhaps unfortunately, it’s a state of the human condition that we learn better from our failures than our successes.

This is due to painful experiences making a more profound impact on our psyche’s and memories than pleasurable ones. While the birth of my child and my wedding day were pleasurable, benchmark memories, I learned less from them than when I finally tore myself away from the neurotic BPD woman I’d been a voluntary prisoner of for years. It’s been written into our brains to learn from pain. It was a selected-for survival trait that corrected us when we were repeatedly making the same fatal errors. The things that are important to us as evolving beings are associated with what we most vividly remember.

Patience

So, it’s with this in mind that I came to learn to have patience with men who were diametrically opposed to what I offer as positively masculine enlightenment here. Over the years on the SoSuave forum I gradually made friends of formerly hostile opponents for no other reason than patiently awaiting their having an experience that validated some principle  or behavior I was trying to relate to them. Former critics (JOPHIL, R.I.P.) became fantastic friends once they’d experienced first hand the dynamic I was describing. All it took was a bit of patience, and a consistent, cogent explanation of idea.

I’ve stated in the past that unplugging chumps from the Matrix is dirty work, akin to triage; save the ones you can and read last rites to the terminal. However it’s equally important not to casually NEXT a guy that could be unplugged once he’s been made brutally aware of the system that’s keeping him trapped. Often enough it’s his lack of traumatic experience combined with an extensive conditioning that’s holding him back from really understanding a Game-aware perspective. He’s not an asshole, he simply hasn’t had the experience that would make him reconsider his perspective.

In the same respect that I feel relationships based on negotiated desire are disingenuous, I also believe that coercing someone else to see my perspective is not a valid expression of genuine desire. I cannot make a person believe what I do, I can only present my belief to them. A person, man or woman, has to come to that genuine change of their own volition. I’m not interested in a readership full of yes-men clones; there needs to be challenges in perspective for a marketplace of ideas to thrive. I encourage people to tell me I’m wrong, because if my ideas can’t weather open scrutiny then they aren’t strong enough ideas to profess.

I don’t want to unplug robots from the Matrix just to make them robots of my own perspective. I may be guilty of a tough-love approach by a well needed kick in the ass to understand the reality of what a guy may be going through in that moment, but I know that a real shift in understanding comes not from force, but from a person determining that shift for themselves. Jarring a person awake isn’t the same as attacking them personally.

So at the end of all this I want to encourage all of my Game-aware readers not to give up too readily on the guys they may think are hopeless. In fact I’d suggest that the guys you know who are the most hostile to your perspective are the ones who’ll more readily accept and understand your wanting to make them Game-aware. Their fervency in the Matrix is only a short trip to fervency in positive masculinity if you’re patient enough. All these guys are just one traumatic experience away from grasping the truth of Game.

Published by Rollo Tomassi

Author of The Rational Male and The Rational Male, Preventive Medicine

Leave a Reply

  Subscribe  
Notify of
A.B. Dada
Guest
A.B. Dada
Offline

A key element for change in a guy is to get them to lose body fat and lift weights 2-3 days a week. Why? Testosterone may very well be the most important missing link to accepting the red pill naturally.

You don’t need to be huge or ripped or even cut, you just need that rush of constant testosterone to finally stop giving a shit or overcoming oneitis.

Captain Action
Guest

Yep. Testosterone. I wholly believe that upping my mass & strength & T will not only raise my physical appeal and sex rank, but will also raise my assertiveness and fortify me to “stop giving a shit” in my interactions with men & women. It gives you real strength to differentiate, to draw your boundaries and to build from within. And in a very real sense, when one becomes bigger, your inner game will follow suit, especially if you’ve taken a dose of the pill.

.

Captain Action
Guest

“I don’t want to unplug robots from the Matrix just to make them robots of my own perspective.” This is so important to remember for those of us who’ve been robots to the Matrix. You have to question & debate. It helps you refine what you believe. Fortunately, I have found that I don’t always agree with all the manosphere topics or points. I also don’t think I ever really agreed with all of the points of the Matrix either (afterall, why would I feel so much shame about being a nice guy if that was truly what women wanted),… Read more »

docmarrero
Guest
docmarrero
Offline

Excellent piece, very true!!

Phinn
Guest
Phinn
Offline

I tried to unplug another man this weekend. I knew exactly what he was going through, and tried to shock him awake with some radical assertions about his situation, but I don’t think I got through to him. All he wanted to do was gripe about what his girlfriend was doing to him, treating him badly. I tried to convince him, as gently as I could, that the problem (and the solution) were within himself, in his attitude toward women in general. No sale. His girlfriend is my wife’s best friend. My wife came within one phone call of cheating… Read more »

Kuraje
Guest
Kuraje
Offline

While testosterone is definitely a factor, it’s not the sole factor. I was in a relationship with a BPD for 2 years. 1 year in, my sex drive waned heavily (gasp) and I tried ‘Tripling My Testosterone’ ala the 4 Hour Body by Tim Ferriss. It worked. I had a lust for inflicting pain in my sparring sessions and pleasure in the bedroom like never before. Quite frankly, I’ve never felt so alive. While it worked, the resulting psycho-fuckery of being with a BPD was what forced a 2nd swallowing of the red pill. While I’d taken it before, I… Read more »

Flahute
Guest
Flahute
Offline

I can relate to this, because when you gain profound wisdom, it clicks, it seems so apparent in the present, you wish you had seen it sooner, and so you say to yourself, “if only I had known this back then . . . everything would be different.” “Someday, everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece.” – Bob Dylan He recorded that song in 1971 when most thought his masterpieces had already been written. We can’t change the past. Rather than re-examine our past, we must construct our futures with our present knowledge. “Blood on the Tracks”… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck
Offline

It isn’t about grasping the truth of game. it is about grasping the truth of life. Game or no game, women will be women will be women. The only guys I have no respect for are the ones who have seen all the signs, they’ve read the boards and blogs, yet they still choose to believe in the soulmate myth lite (aka “good” girls) and it seems that no matter how many times they get burned they will take that to their grave. Plenty of them on SS. That’s a big reason why I left. I don’t need everyone to… Read more »

Survivorman
Guest
Survivorman
Offline

“It’s unfortunate that experience teaches harsh, but teaches best.”

Experience is a harsh teacher – because she gives you the test first..
and the lesson *afterwards*.

I forget where I saw that – but it stuck in my mind. And yes, experience is most definitely a “she”..

AW
Guest
AW
Offline

Well stated man, thank you for that.

YaReally
Guest
YaReally
Offline

Even once the pill is taken there are levels to it where this comes up. The guy who spins a few plates in a drunken haze at social circle parties for a few years then settles down with a wife and practices his marriage game doesn’t have the same experience a sober guy who regularly picks up new girls anywhere from bars to coffee shops has. There’s almost too much information on Game available now. People don’t have to experience it first hand to form opinions, they just adopt a belief system from whatever company or guru they stumble across… Read more »

unscathed
Guest
unscathed
Offline

” Unplugging is difficult enough in and of itself, but realizing and accepting that your previous mindset might not be entirely accurate is a hard conversation to have with yourself. It’s unfortunate that experience teaches harsh, but teaches best. However, I’ve found it much healthier to accept that, like the majority of men, we don’t want to come to terms with our faults and inaccuracies in mindset until we’re shaken awake by a trauma sufficient enough to break us down.” Reminds me of a Roosevelt quote: “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how… Read more »

Dreamer
Guest
Dreamer
Offline

I lurked around SS. About Jophil, I think he held on to remain critical to the very end, though he did admit to using some of the things you said, I don’t think he ever disavowed his criticisms and points as in “you are 100% right and I’m 100% wrong.” You make it sound like he completely surrendered to your complete superiority of wisdom and knowledge. No man is infallible. So the wording kinda irritated me. @Chuck – For the ones who lurks and read a lot (like me). I like to avoid making that mistake. So what do you… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck
Offline

Speaking of Susan Walsh, I pop in over there from time to time for shits and giggles and happened to catch her most recent post. Scanning through the comments I happened upon this gem. Apparently Rollo is a “toxic presence” who despises women and is “wrong about most things”. And of course, in the same post she drops the ban hammer on yet another “dissenter”. It is plain to see how much use Susan has for the truth. @Jason My attitude of dismay that this once was a blog where you’d listen to input from people like Yohami and Rollo,… Read more »

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck
Offline

Some men would like to believe that there is a class of women who are immune to the forces of the sexual market. All of us acknowledge that there are differences in individual women but some guys are a bit optimistic about where their “special” girl sits on the scale.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

LOL!

Dreamer
Guest
Dreamer
Offline

Fair enough. Though I do remember you been pretty terrible at explaining that. I won’t be surprised if you explain like you just did, you’ll find more agreement.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

And yes, experience is most definitely a “she”..

Heh, nice. Experience is most definitely a slap you across the face type of girl. At least experience is not subtle. In that way, it’s pretty masculine.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

When guys like Jesus Mahoney are seeing through her bullshit, you know the ship is taking on water.

Seeing Rollo in a whole new light. Beginning to regret my insults toward him.

If you think that means that women want men who live by the golden rule of only ever giving 2/3 as much love as they receive, then go hang with Rollo. That’s what repulses and disgusts *me*. You can go light, or you can go dark. There is no walking the middle ground. But you can’t go dark here.

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2012/03/29/politics-and-feminism/is-the-end-of-hypergamy-near/comment-page-4/#comments

He’s always welcome here, so don’t be too harsh on him.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

hah. finally JM got the cue. he had to listen it coming from a woman though.

Its funny how Susan keeps bouncing to fix the mess. “No no no we want beta!”, but then she says it again: “we want to extract the beta from the alpha.”

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck
Offline

Who could have predicted that she would eventually go the way of so many female bloggers before her, shaming anyone who dares utter a critical word about women and banning anyone who dares to challenge her interpretation of the truth?

FFY
Guest
FFY
Offline

“I tend to err on the side of zero censorship”

HAHA

mmaier2112
Guest
mmaier2112
Offline

Wow. Little Suzie is becoming quite the headcase.

Kuraje
Guest
Kuraje
Offline

Np. Pay it forward when you have the opp.

Good Luck Chuck
Guest
Good Luck Chuck
Offline

The truth is terrible. And I don’t have much patience.

How do you know who I am, BTW?

Dreamer
Guest
Dreamer
Offline

I remember someone called you by your old handle somewhere in these comments before.

Jesus Mahoney
Guest
Jesus Mahoney
Offline

What’s new, Yohami?

Rollo,

I do apologize for being rude, and thank you for the plea to make me feel welcome. I’ll probably be scarce though. While I do understand a lot of what you’re preaching over here, I just don’t think relationships are for me under the circumstances.

To me, if I can’t be the alpha in her life without playing games, then she’s not worth the time.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Why are you questioning that you may not be the alpha in her life? (If you’ve gone through this and do not want to again, please ignore. I haven’t read 95% of the comments at HUS).

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

“if I can’t be the alpha in her life without playing games, then she’s not worth the time.”

I cosign that.

Jesus Mahoney
Guest
Jesus Mahoney
Offline

Why are you questioning that you may not be the alpha in her life? (If you’ve gone through this and do not want to again, please ignore. I haven’t read 95% of the comments at HUS). Long story. This has been a thing brewing for a while over at HUS. So, everybody’s pretty much saying that women will fantasize about other men. And the ultimate female fantasy is winning over the “pure” alpha and drawing out the beta in him. (Incidentally, this is what spurred on my apology to Rollo, since it seems to me that this insight is central… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Jesus, If I may, please define fantasize. Does it bother you that she may watch a movie that shows the ultimate alpha being tamed and be highly entertained by it? Or is it more a fantasize during sex thing?

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

I think it’s more about the nature of (female) love itself. It’s more shape-oriented than depth oriented, and the shape is quite basic. And not any man in particular.

Jesus Mahoney
Guest
Jesus Mahoney
Offline

Stingray,

I don’t think she’s fantasizing about anybody else during sex. Yea, it bothers me that she may watch a movie that shows the ultimate alpha and be aroused by it.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Yohami,

I don’t understand. Could you please explain?

deti
Guest
deti
Offline

Yes. I think a lot of it is that women want not so much to love a man as to love. The act of loving is slightly more important than the object of that love. And re fantasy and fantasizing – my experience with this is that women fantasize about ideal men, men who exist only in and on romance novels and cheesy women’s channel movies. These men have no real identities other than as objects of lust, or sex, or utility to the woman. Most women have no intention of trying to fulfill these fantasies but like to entertain… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti
Offline

I think women who fantasize about “ideal” men know these are fantasies, nothing more. It’s impossible to fulfill the fantasy because its object does not exist. It’s a fun mental game for some women. And I’m not so sure a woman fantasizing during sex necessarily means there’s a defect. She might be high T. She might have a high sex drive. She might have some problems reaching climax without it. OTOH, if she’s so conditioned her brain that the only way she can get off is to fantasize then maybe something’s wrong that can or cannot be corrected. Loading...

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

(This may sounds like a jibe. It’s not.) You do not ever see a gorgeous woman, become aroused and then seek your girlfriend? Here’s the thing. Yes, taming the alpha probably is the ultimate female fantasy. It’s also a Disney fantasy and I think (hope?) most women realize that a fantasy is all it is ever going to be. It is also a fantasy in the fact that it is something that we think we want, but in reality, the ultimate alpha is not going to bring enough comfort for an actual LTR (I am speaking from some solipsism here… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti
Offline

At the end of the day, in relationships no one gets everything they want. Even if they did get “everything” they wanted, they don’t get it all the time.

Everyone compromises to make a relationship work. No woman is everything to her husband. No man holds every single quality his wife wants or wanted.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

in relationships no one gets everything they want.

No they don’t. Also men, please remember, women think they know what they want, but they are often wrong about it. They get what they think they want and then get angry, bored, etc. It’s a mindf*ck. Most of you reading here likely know better what we want than we do ourselves.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

” If she is becoming aroused because of the movie, it is you she is turning to. Her alpha. The one she was reminded of. ”

Right, if I see transformers and get aroused at Megan Fox, Im really turning to my girlfriend, it’s because Megan Fox reminded me of her.

Please.

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

JM, you’re always welcome here, and I don’t mean that in a Dark Lord of the Sith context either. As much as I know how averse you are to reading Roissy’s stuff, coincidentally he wrote an interesting piece that kind of speaks to what you’re dealing with in regards to your GF’s fantasizations: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2012/04/02/word-is-getting-out/ He goes off on the popularity of the 50 Shades of Gray book and the duplicitous paradox between hypergamy, women’s fantasies and their internal conflict for wanting beta providers: Feminists rush to claim that these sordid female fantasies are just that: fantasy. But then why is… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

You are always saying men and women think differently so why are you projecting now? So when you watch Megan Fox do you wank one off and then go to your girl or do you go to your girl and think about Megan Fox? Don’t really care and as long as you are slamming away I am sure your girl doesn’t either. I think women fantasize more about what we want done to us, not necessarily who does it. If we are with a guy unwilling to do certain things then we may fantasize about someone who will. If you… Read more »

deti
Guest
deti
Offline

I think most women fantasize differently than most men. I think women’s fantasies are usually of a different character and purpose than most men’s. She fantasizes of the unattainable ideal. She wants something she knows she can never have. He fantasizes of the tangible, the real, the past, a memory.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

This too. It’s why vampire porn is so popular. Can ever have it, fun to think about.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

Stingray, Im not projecting, Im pointing to some hamstering you did. See. If girls go to see John Carter and get aroused by the pure alpha, and then they turn to their boyfriends with extra filled admiration and attachment – then it’s true, the pure alpha only reminded them of their bfs. But what usually happens, is that when a girl is exposed to a higher alpha source, she turns to her boyfriend with contempt and disdain. And starts a fight. “I think women fantasize more about what we want done to us, not necessarily who does it.” That’s what… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Yohami,

Ok, I understand. This is why I said I was being solipsistic and may be wrong. I see a movie with the alpha and turn to my husband with “extra filled admiration and attachment”. I assume other girls dating alphas so the same. If Jesus is alpha, then his girl is probably doing this. He says he is, so . . . .

Jesus Mahoney
Guest
Jesus Mahoney
Offline

Rollo,

Thanks for the link. It articulates one of the things I’ve been thinking about the last couple of days.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

There are ways to transfer that. Even when this happens in real life, if a more alpha dude is displaying his stuff in front of her but you’re the one touching her, she transfer her arousal to you. Kino 101. If she perceives the alpha source and you as separate beings, you get contempt instead, or a “you and him fight” sort of thing. The other way to handle it is to enhance the separate beings thing by doing it yourself: let go of the girl and do your own thing in a non reactive way, but in a way… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

That’s what I mean with love being about a shape, and not related to any man in particular. It’s a fixation with a form that could be filled up by any man. So, it’s not the same thing men call love. It’s a role based play with an unnamed actor. This I am not so sure about and can only give my own perspective. If a different man came to fill my husbands shoes and did much of what my husband does I am not sure I would love him. Yes, I think that one of the major things women… Read more »

Rollo Tomassi
Guest

@JM, not sure if you’ve read this yet, but look over the Going Alpha part here: https://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/03/09/relationship-game-a-primer/ I think what you’re struggling with is the ‘becoming someone else’ to be your GF’s A-Guy. I can understand a want for being genuine with yourself, but you really have a choice to make: You either become the Game and make it who you are (rather than think it’s a script), or you find a woman for whom you are her apex ideal male. It’s important to accept that no guy will ever be a woman’s ideal, because the moment he’s attained he… Read more »

Kuraje
Guest
Kuraje
Offline

Shape: The external form or appearance of someone or something. Depth: The quality or state of being complete or thorough. The implication is that the target of female love just needs to fit a general criteria (i.e. ‘the checklist’). Inclusive and illustrative of this is Rollo’s post on feminine standards of desirable male physical traits. It’s been unchanged since the dawn of time and “is quite basic”. So long as any man fits that archetype (physically and otherwise), then he’ll do. On the other hand, this also means that depth is not a requirement. It usually turns out to be… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

Kuraje, +10 for that.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

There’s a lot of Hamsters spinning to convince you that your GF will take all that sexual anxiety she derives from her fantasy and apply it to you. Beta bait, don’t take it. Guilty. Sorry. I’m trying to figure all this out, too. “what’s wrong with me? why am I not adequate for her? sheeees sooo beautiful.” I don’t understand this. Don’t men see other beautiful women and say the same to their SO’s? Is there no fantasizing from men about other women (porn mags, movie stars, etc?) Then what happens during sex in your minds? Go blank with physical… Read more »

Retrenched
Guest
Retrenched
Offline

Seems that every thread over at HUS follows the same pattern: 1. Susan or one of the HUS girls says some blue-pill stuff (girls find beta sexually attractive, girls don’t fall in love with promiscuous men, etc.) 2.Red-pill guys — many of whom listened to similar advice as young men and were led astray, only to learn the truth later in life — take exception and counter the blue-pill stuff 3. Susan gets increasingly upset with the red-pill guys who counter the blue-pill stuff, accusing them of hating women, abusing women, etc. 4. Red-pill guys get censored/banned from HUS, or… Read more »

Jesus Mahoney
Guest
Jesus Mahoney
Offline

Rollo, I think what I’m looking for is the unicorn. And I’m hoping that I’ve found her. I can’t say how it is for other guys, but when I fall in love, she becomes “it” for me. Sure, other women are can be beautiful, but–at least to me–not as hot or attractive as my girl. I recognize that a lot of people don’t understand this, but it’s the way I work. So I want a woman who works the same. Agree and amplify is great–but when it comes to an issue that’s important to me, I don’t want to just… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Kuraje, Thank you for that. It makes sense and would explain deep attraction to the alpha. And since you said physically and otherwise I assume you mean we are attracted to the traits or actions of the alpha as well? This brings me to another question. I have been reading lately in the manosphere that men and women love differently. I find this interesting. Women are initially attracted to alpha traits and will fall in love with alpha’s completely (I am not sure if beta traits are actually needed for the love aspect or if that is different from woman… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

Male love: the girl becomes THE ONE. Up in an idealized pedestal and becomes a moral compass, a goddess, a symbol, it’s a bigger than life feeling that makes everything else pale. It can make you endure war, go though hell, go to prison and come out, it’s a light at the end of the tunnel, or if you’re with her, it’s the world surrounding you, it becomes “truth”. It blinds you. It becomes who you are. That’s the male love. Check every beta song ever, or read Jesus Mahoney. Male love is the opposite of female love. The girl… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

What makes you fall in love if she doesn’t do anything? What is it about her that made you fall in love to begin with? Or can a man really fall in love with a woman in a picture or one that he just sees walk down the street day after day?

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

female love: how he makes her feel and what he provides, with his actions and presence. the center is the girl. male love, an idealization, also with the girl at the center. the guy will “do” and the girl will “be”, often telling the guy what he has to do, so she can feel accordingly.

In other words she infatuates with herself because of how she feels, and with the guy by extension. the link with “how she feels” is stronger than the actual link she has with the guy.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

men are obsessive creatures and we all (men) have this pedestal – high pristine altar of purity – to be occupied by a higher goal. love is when you put the particular woman in that pedestal.

so the girl doesnt have to do anything. all it takes is that she presses enough buttons, and the man put’s her up there. and she can press a lot of these buttons just by looking pretty and being friendly – she just have to fill the mold of this particular man, fill the ideal close enough, and she becomes the ideal.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

“can a man really fall in love with a woman in a picture or one that he just sees walk down the street day after day?”

yep. a man can fall deeply in love with a girl he hasnt met nor has any experience with. “love at first sight” and romanticism is a male thing.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

Think of all the stuff men do and how men push forward, “confident in what they want” before the girl has any clue about this guy. The guy see’s something and is all sure and does stuff. The stuff behind that drive is an idealization, a goal = an obsession. Now if the guy know’s what he’s doing and is not crazy, what he does, over time, will rub the girl in the right way and she will feel something. Active and passive.

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Yohami,

Wow. I didn’t know that. I am going to have to think on this. I am not even sure what to think right now. It makes me even more convinced that one of the reasons women so dislike being put on a the pedestal is because we inherently know we do not deserve what you just described. That is purity. We are anything but.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

I know wink

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

The other side of this, if the guy is NOT idealizing the girl, but keeps pushing forward towards her, he wants to fuck. And he doesnt have a pedestal, so the girl doesnt reject him, he’s not pushing her in a mold, he just rubs her and makes her feel. So women fall in love for guys who dont love them. And they close the door to guys who actually love them. This is a major component of the red pill: that love as you know doesnt exist. That’s why so many guys turn it around and hate love, feelings,… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Damn though, Yohami. It makes me sad. Men deserve that. Why the hell would we be made to not fulfill that? I know that men and women belong together. That we fit. But holy crap. No one can ever fill what you just described. I understand everything you just described, but it does not compute logically. It seems to be a set up for a huge fall. How does a man continue to love a woman when she is forever failing, as we are wont to do. Even good women fail. Good men fail. It is the human condition. Loading...

Kuraje
Guest
Kuraje
Offline

“And since you said physically and otherwise I assume you mean we are attracted to the traits or actions of the alpha as well? This brings me to another question…Women are initially attracted to alpha traits and will fall in love with alpha’s completely (I am not sure if beta traits are actually needed for the love aspect or if that is different from woman to woman. I do think they are necessary for a healthy relationship.) In short we fall in love much for what a man does (how he handles himself and certain situations. This will often trump… Read more »

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

Think of the male drive. It a jump on the nothingness. You compete against other guys, you get tested day and night and are disposable. The pedestal is what makes you wake up and try again. Think of the sperm trying to reach that ideal ovule that might not even be there. Think of the thousands of male insects that all flight chasing that sole female princess ant. Only one will catch her, but they all try the same. And then when they catch her, the male dies and she carries with the offspring. I dont think the male saw… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

that love as you know doesnt exist. Love like you described, no I don’t think it does. It actually is a bit frightening, because to live up to that, as a woman, would be impossible. But love does exist. I live it everyday. But I know that I am not my husbands life, nor would I want to be. I was lucky enough to be chosen to follow him in his life and aid him in anyway I can. Some men call this a mission and I am sure others have other names. I could not ever be his mission,… Read more »

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Yohami,

Please don’t turn gay. You would make all the girls cry . . . . .

wink

Stingray
Guest
Stingray
Offline

Kuraje,

I understand the female side well, I think. I am trying to now figure out male love. I did not realize the two were so very different.

YOHAMI
Guest
YOHAMI
Offline

“Why the hell would we be made to not fulfill that?”

The two sides of evolution. Males compete, females select. Different instincts and drives etc. We’re specialized. While men are fighting the war and dying, females are protecting the resources and creating the offspring. And I think this was meant to happen in a shorter span. Modernity and civilization fucked this up, or, or base nature keeps fucking civilization, which is based on all those male ideals.

Scott
Guest
Scott
Offline

It is important in becoming a man to go through pain and struggles. That is also part of how I entered Game (to begin with it didn’t even directly deal with getting women, as it was at first more about getting through tough situations). Many people are self-righteous (such as, putting down Game/Masculinity) because they have been insulated since childhood through getting a cushy career and thus have never had to go through much pain/struggles, so they consider their current beliefs as being the only correct view, so when they are knocked off their high-horse they are finally able to… Read more »

trackback

[…] my ability to game her waned as might be expected in this circumstance.  Going through the red pill awaking process and learning game does hammer on a man’s self worth and self esteem at […]

trackback

[…] feminine imperative and feminine social primacy. I’ve covered aspects of this prevention in Hear Me Now, Believe Me Later, but this post was more of an after-the-fact perspective from older men’s experiences, and […]

rugby11
Guest
rugby11
Offline

It happened to me.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jXeF1rMkpQw

Jayeben10
Guest
Jayeben10
Offline

After catching a brief glimpse of Style’s opening words on his journey from AFC to mPUA (did he ever make it there or am I rating him too highly?), I knew it was what I needed to finally get the girl, to get laid. When my dream girl who had previously been so into me had just been spooked into coyness by my neediness, I sought out the book once more and never got to read it till after high school, carrying my virginity till age 24, haha, in effect. A few tips here and there and I finally got… Read more »

%d bloggers like this: