Iron Rule of Tomassi #3
Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait.
When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. Sexuality is spontaneous chemical reaction between two parties, not a process of negotiation. It’s sex first, then relationship, not the other way around. A woman who wants to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. She will fly across the country, crawl under barbwire, climb in through your second story bedroom window, fuck the shit out of you and wait patiently inside your closet if your wife comes home early from work – women who want to fuck will find a way to fuck. The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.
If a girl is that into you she’ll have sex with you regardless of ASD or having her friends in the room videotaping it at a frat party. All women can be sluts, you just have to be the right guy to bring it out in them, and this happens before you go back to her place. If you have to plead your case cuddling and spooning on the bed or getting the occasional peck on the cheek at the end of the night, you need to go back to square one and start fresh.
I’m probably going to ruffle a few PUA feathers here, but I’ve never been a proponent of breaking down LMR (last minute resistance) with a woman. Maybe it’s a result of experiences in my rock star 20’s, but at some point I came to the conclusion that sex with a woman who’s turned on by me is always a far better than one where I had to sell her on the idea of sex with me before the act. Now don’t take this to the binary extreme and assume I mean the only good sex you’ll ever have is a first night lay (FNL) with some tart who can’t keep her legs closed. What I mean is that if you’re still trying to figure out what the magic words are to convince some girl that she ought fuck you after 3 dates – or longer – you’re in desire negotiation hearings counselor. You are wasting your time and limiting your opportunity with better prospective women in waiting out a woman who would defer less than 100% of her real desire to have sex with you. The sex will NEVER be worth the wait. A prostitute would be a better alternative.
Genuine desire cannot be negotiated. Once you get past a certain point in the waiting game, what once had the chance to be an organic, sexual desire becomes mitigated negotiation of a physical act. Just the fact that you’re having to make a case for yourself (even covertly) is evidence that there are other factors inhibiting her capacity to be sexual with you. As I stated, barring a physical inability, this is almost always because of an unmentioned agenda on her part. It may be due to a concurrent boyfriend, it may be a natural internal caution, it may be that your process is telegraphing ‘beta’ to her, or it may be that she’s filibustering you while waiting to see if another, more preferable guy pans out for her, however, none of these are insurmountable if she has a genuine desire to bang you. Many a cheated on boyfriend knows this is true. In any circumstance, sex with you is not an urgency for her. If she’s perceiving your value as as high as it should be, she wont hesitate longer than a few dates to become sexual – and she certainly wont tell you she’s making you wait. Hypergamy doesn’t afford a woman much waiting time with a Man she sees as superior stock.
One of the more frustrating situations I often encounter comes from guys who’ve been OVERTLY told that they’re being made to wait for sex until some circumstance or criteria is met for the woman. The standard filibuster (or loss-leader as the case may be) usually comes with the reasoning that she “needs to feel comfortable” before she has sex with a guy. Even more distressing is the guy who was getting laid, only to be told the same thing by an existing girlfriend. If you find yourself in either of these situation there are a couple of things to bear in mind.
First and foremost, sex, by it’s nature is uncomfortable. Sex that is motivated by mutual, genuine desire is a tense affair, fueled by testosterone, anxiety and urgency. When two people get together for a first dance ( a precursor to copulation), it’s rarely if ever an intimate slow dance. It’s salsa, it’s grinding, it’s pumping, it’s heat and it’s sweat. What it’s not is comforting and familiar. It’s not a nice warm bathrobe fresh out of the dryer. Don’t take this the wrong way, but sex is threatening. It needs to be, and you need to be considered a sexualized player in her personal sphere. Overtly agreeing to wait for her to become sexual is anti-seductive. It confirms for her that you aren’t a sexualized player to her; an Alpha wouldn’t wait for sex and she knows this. Worse still, it devalues her SMV as being worth less than of your utmost urgency.
Secondly, always remember why women resort to OVERT communications (the language of men) – so there is no, or less, margin that her message will be misunderstood. If a woman, point blank says, “I’m not having sex with you until X,Y, and Z happens”, what is her MEDIUM telling you? That there is a precondition that’s more important to her than fucking you with genuine, uncontrollable passion. You want her to be so into you that she’s willing to break the rules. The ideal situation is for her genuine passion to be so uncontrollable for you that she’d renounce her religion and throw her convictions to the wind to be with you. That might seem a bit dramatic, but you get the idea. The good news now is that she’s being overt, which means she’s exhausted her reserves to be covert and, assuming you’re not so desperate as to delude yourself, you can NEXT her and move on.
Rapport ≠ Comfort
A lot of “waiters” find all that a tough road to hoe. They want to stick it out and see if things “might develop”, and NEXTing their ‘waiting girl’ seems a lot like throwing the baby out with the bath water after all the time they’ve invested in building what they think is rapport. Usually this is due to the guy not spinning (enough) other plates that would bear more fruit. However, keep this in mind; waiting for sex isn’t building rapport. There’s a lot of confusion about rapport, most of which is due to well meaning PUAs conflating rapport with comfort. It’s a pretty esoteric term, but rapport is a connection; it’s an implied trust between two acting agents who previously had never met or only have limited knowledge of each other. You can have rapport with an animal – that’s the connection, it’s instinctual.
Comfort comes from familiarity and predictability; all decidedly anti-seductive influences. And while comfort has it’s own merits in interpersonal relationships, it is not the basis for genuine, passionate sexual desire. For people (myself included) involved in a marriage or LTR, it’s serves our long-term best interest to convince ourselves that sex is better when your comfortable with your partner, however, the reality of it sings a different tune. Here’s an easy illustration: As reported by both men and women alike, which of these circumstances provokes the most intense, memorable sexual experiences ? When a couple plans and arranges a romantic “date night” to ‘keep it fresh’ and reconnect? Or is it the ‘make-up sex’ after a horrible breakup, or narrowly averted breakup, where long dormant competition anxiety is brought back into being a very real possibility again? If you said the breakup, you’re correct! One scenario is comfortable, the other uncomfortable. One has the element of predictable certainty, the other is chaotic and uncertain, however in both situations there is definitely a working mutually connective rapport operating.
This doesn’t come down to “she has to fuck me in three dates or else”, it is about having an awareness of when you are dealing with ASD and when you are dealing with a woman who is less than thrilled with your presence. There is still going to be a little resistance with some women even if they do want sex. You just have to ferret out the intent and proceed accordingly. Although I don’t agree with the idea that you can judge a “quality” woman by how long she waits to put out, I think that most of… Read more »
Rollo, the blog is great. Easily taking over as the top blog out there for men.
What about when you get the, “we’re not having sex tonight” line when your with a chick the first night or on the first couple dates? I usually take it in stride as a shit test and say, “I was about to tell you the same thing.” just not drawing to much attention to it. Is there a better way to handle it.
Thanks
“When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority.”
I am going to add this to my personal manifesto (which doesn’t actually exist yet.)
I am adding you to my blogroll man. The site is excellent.
“A prostitute would be a better alternative.” Amen. Having some distance from my former marriage now, the thing that strikes me most about my married sex life, was how I really was “paying” for sex anyway. She always used it as a negotiation tool and/or reward, and for years I was “paying” emotionally and physically as a result. The funniest part, exactly as you say Rollo, is that it just wasn’t very good sex, ever. /Me shakes head… Throughout my life, I was always against “paying” for sex, and would never have considered a prostitute as an alternative a year… Read more »
A woman that deeply desires you would want to have sex with you with gusto. If she is any bit hesitant then she is not terribly interested in you. It is as simple as that. Keep your options open and ready to walk away if she uses sex as a bargaining tool. Women who are in love with you and desire you will never do that.
What I’m facing is a kind of “counter-insurgency game” from my current gf. She’s launching the “anti-surge” on me. After successfully gaming her here’s what I’m facing…a kind of sexual Falujah and am having troubles. First, I’ve got options…no issue there. There are at least 3 other very desirable women that I have gamed to the point where I can move that forward anytime. But here’s my situation. Endless shit-testing and complaining. I can’t keep up. The latest is that after I decided to go away for a night without her, she came over. When she arrived she was pouting… Read more »
Say to her: “We need to talk. Its not working out between us…”
She can only react two ways to that. Positively or negatively.
If she says sorry and promises to stop being a cunt then hold her to that promise.
If she reacts negatively, then DTB.
If you have other desirable options that are not constantly testing you, and one increasing undesirable option, then I am not actually seeing a problem. Tell her to smarten the fuck up or get lost. She is a child, and must be disciplined as such.
I’ve given advice and examples of stuff I do in response to similar situations, but my approach seems to be at huge odds with your personal philosophy and personality.
I advocate extreme anger in certain situations.
Tell her to cut that shit out or get lost. Clearly she has security issues and does not feel secure enough in your relationship. Either address what those are, or tell her point blank that you will not be standing for it. Put your foot down.
I did dump a woman who wanted to make me wait. It wasn’t even so much that I was aware of all the stuff above, well I was in a general way but the thoughts were still inchoate. This was before I’d ever heard of the manosphere. She was throwing off so many IOIs even I couldn’t have missed it and that’s saying something. If she’d asked me for a couple of months I’d probably have beta-ed. But no it’s worse than that, she comes out with, she’s a Catholic now and she wants to wait until she’s ready to… Read more »
Rollo, Are you advocating or suggesting women who chose not to screw men on 1-3 dates or within a shorter time frame where she doesn’t know him very well are women who are not worth waiting for? That a woman that prefers to wait to get to know a guy she has the hots for better before sleeping with him is not a woman worth waiting for? Are these women playing games to you or could it possibly be that some women simply don’t believe in IMMEDIATLEY opening their legs for every stranger to Tom, Dick and Harry that gives… Read more »
Really Neecy, your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired: Any woman who makes you wait for sex, or by her actions implies she is making you wait for sex; the sex is NEVER worth the wait. What would be too long to wait? 3 months? 6 months? The operative isn’t the time period, it’s the intent behind the wait. The sex isn’t worth the wait when genuine desire is mitigated by some other influencing factor. It makes little difference if the woman is chaste as a pastors wife or a $10 whore, the sex isn’t worth the wait.… Read more »
Neecy, Reread this part a few times: “The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.” Here is the straight dope. Any guy with experience and savvy knows that many women run this scam where they have sex or have had sex with the guy who generates the tingle right away, but then make the beta provider “work” for the pussy until she is “ready and comfortable”. And… Read more »
Neecy, We had a quite lengthy discussion on this over at Susan Walsh’s Hooking Up Smart not too long ago. I can’t provide the link because the site is blocked from this PC, but go to Hooking Up Smart and look for the post “Price Discrimination in Sex”. This issue kind of being alluded to is you have some women trying to sell the same newspaper to one guy for $10 while the other guy gets it for a dime or for free. Odds are if you are getting charged $10, then you’ve got someone trying to play you because… Read more »
Similar discussions had manosphere commenters tell women to hold off on sex until monogamy.
What is good advice for a relationship minded woman may not be identical to the advice for man looking to be sexually successful. I think it is a safe assumption that Rollo isn’t writing strategy, tactics, and mindset for the woman seeking marriage. I wouldn’t tell a woman to either hold off on sex or not hold off on sex based on monogamy or no monogamy. Do what you want, and accept the consequences of your choices. In my experience, men vary quite a bit in terms of whether they have a problem or not with the degree of a… Read more »
Agreed. ( It’s a problem both sexes have to figure out. You guys don’t want to commit to a slut, we don’t don’t want to get pumped and dumped by a player.)
The extreme emphasis on hookup and sex first, relationship later has really changed. Twenty years ago when I was fully in the SMP in the midwest, it was just on the cusp of changing. Then, most women could get a BF without being expected to put out. There were a lot of women who would do all but P in V sex; but a growing number getting into hookup. You had to be aggressive with escalation to get anywhere. Now: it seems to be all hookup. A lot of men I know have a 3 date rule: “Sex by date… Read more »
Agreed Neecy
Mixed messages.
What EXACTLY is the mixed message here in just this post? I think you are conflating JUST THIS PARTICULAR POST with something you’ve read or perceived elsewhere.
Believe it or not Neecy brings up a decent point. That’s why I said it isn’t about the time frames it is about the intentions. The problem these days is that MOST of the time a woman who refuses to put out isn’t doing so out of innocence. If she’s reasonably attractive and over the age of 20 chances are she’s already had a pretty good sample of the cock carousel and if she tries to pull that shit on you it’s a bad sign. The more “innocent” girls I have been with who had only had one or two… Read more »
The mixed messages are not within this post but from the manosphere in general. I should have been clear on that.
I would like to point out that just because a woman doesn’t have sex with you immediately doesn’t mean that she isn’t attracted to you. She could even be overwhelmed by attraction, resulting in a certain withdrawing and shyness.. Or god forbid, an interest in a relationship. Or an aversion to hurt. Take your pick.
Well, this was both enlightening and depressing. I am a female college student who enjoys being single, parties, flirting, etc. etc. but who is seeking out a long-term relationship and eventual marriage. I have had sex with two people, and only two people, in one-night-stand situations (I am not proud of either and never discuss them as a result; I am only happy that I do not have to deal with the stigma of being a virgin). Since these, which happened within the same month first semester freshman year, I have realized several things that I think are relevant to… Read more »
That may be a good strategy for you, but for a guy to patiently bide his time in the hopes that 3 months later you’ll become sexual with him; that isn’t a pragmatic use of his time or effort – particularly in the knowledge that women have a proven capacity for instant sexual arousal with the right guy under the right circumstance. As I started with, if you’re being made to wait for sex, the impulse is already mitigated by external influences. It’s never worth the wait in comparison to a woman who’s genuinely so passionate about a guy that… Read more »
People have different sexual strategies. Some men are looking for a more conservative minded woman like you, who does not have a sex drive high enough to compel her to have sex. Many men that you might like however have a different sexual strategy, and prefer an unstoppable heat in their women. It’s hard for men to empathize with alternate sexual strategies. I find it near impossible not to belittle men who prefer lifetime monogamy with a virgin, and such men find it difficult not to belittle my lack of concern for partner count in a mate. It seems your… Read more »
[…] I’ve been fielding responses generated from my Wait for it? post, courtesy of Susan Walsh and the Hooking Up Smart audience. What started as some really good […]
[…] Rollo Tomassi at Rational Male (#2 hat tip to Mike C) recently went further and admonished men not to wait for […]
For Neecy, or other girls inquiring whether you should have sex with a guy within 3 dates. Yes. Why would you gamble with a high value man that makes you tingle like crazy? You think he doesn’t have girls that will bang him? Are suggesting from having your own pedestal for your own pussy? Is it so fantastic that he should wait? And if it is, how should he know? if you want your shot at the guy you really want, you will give him what he wants. Your body. it’s your behaviour and actions after sex that determines if… Read more »
Does this man have any incentive at all to commit to anyone in this climate? A girl can play by the rules of everyone else and give up her body like everyone else, to high value men. This might easily lead to trying out many high value men and not being chosen, and ending up with a partner count that is a little too much for any future high value man… I don’t know how these men’s minds work, but some of them seem to value a low partner count and look out for signs of being too easy. Maybe… Read more »
It all starts with whether you’re a guy she’ll CHASE. And that starts with the first words out of your mouth.
Most guys make the CRITICAL mistake of hitting on girls, starting the whole thing with chasing HER. Totally and utterly, painfully wrong.
Here, Inception style pickup, she’ll WANT to fuck you:
http://two.cedonulli.com/2011/10/inception-style-pickup/
Great Post Rollo I got suckered into this earlier this year a couple times sadly you would think I’d know better but lack of plates at the time had me acting simpish. I’ve noticed that women in their 30’s do this “you gonna have to wait crap” the most. It seems like they know their sexual marketability is going down. So they pull this whole “If you wanna hit this you gonna have to take me out, or wait for a relationship” This is annoying, considering the fact that right now I’m not looking for LTR. I admit qualifying on… Read more »
Solo – are you a Canuck by any chance? That sounds like the typical games Canadian women in their 30’s play. I usually walk away from them, because if you know anything about our women, it’s that they want to always control the frame, and they are not interested in boyfriends/husbands but doormats/slaves.
I agree with this. I’ve often found it silly when women have really rigid rules as to when to sleep with a guy, as though attraction is something that needs to be scheduled.
I’ve met women who refuse to sleep with men until X amount of dates or X amount of gifts, and it’s just way too contrived. A woman ought to have sex with a man she likes if the feeling should strike her instead of suppressing her desire in order to leveraging sex as a bargaining tool.
Just as a late breaking addendum to this post, I thought I’d add an interesting study and Roissy follow up to it:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/02/16/file-under-science-love-at-first-same-night-lay/
If Ms. Walsh has still got her panties in a knot, I’d be interested to read her response to this.
[…] frame imbalances instinctually. If you feel like you’re being led on, or being made to wait for sex, you’re operating in her frame. Are you in the ‘friend-zone’ or did you accept an […]
[…] Rollo Tomassi at Rational Male (#2 hat tip to Mike C) recently went further and admonished men not to wait for […]
[…] publicly confirming his stance on placing relationship (women’s first security priority, i.e. wait for sex) above his ever-present physical need for sex, his subconscious hope is to appear so in control of […]
[…] “Taking things slow” is covert communication for “I have other irons in the fire, and you’re not the first best option.” […]
LOL @ deadflowers
i would lol at you so hard if you pulled this garbage on me. 2 one night stands, but for some reason, I’m not good enough to to get my dinky stinky the first time we hang out.
Good god, I hope a meet a broad like you, just so I can lie to her to get into a relationship, blow inside her a few times, then tell her she’s trash.
LOL @ how delusional you are. Relationship material my ass.
[…] could simply take the easy way out of this and defer to my now infamous Wait for It? post, but I don’t think it would sufficiently address the phenomena of women abstaining from […]
What is your take on virgins Rollo Tomassi?
Does this rule apply to them as well?
Or long distance?
[…] think one of the biggest mistakes guys against a 3 Strikes rule make is assuming that it means a guy would be so preoccupied with sex that you couldn’t […]
[…] had a lot of shit slung at me when I offered up Wait For It? As I stated above, I had the predictable feminine doubt doctrine lobbed at me in response from the […]
[…] Leykis promoted a series of dating rules for young men known as “Leykis 101,” including such tips as don’t date single mothers, never spend more than $40 on a date (zero is optimal), always wear a condom, and stop dating her if she won’t sleep with you by date #3. […]
[…] 8 months. For all the shit slinging about Three Strikes or the sex never being worth the wait for a Wait for It girl, it amazes me how readily and willing a majority of Beta men will be to entertain a sexless, […]
Have to say I agree. In fact I would go further – in my experience, I’ve hardly ever had sex with a girl if it I didn’t get it by date three, no matter how patient I subsquently was. And the one occasion I remember when it did take about 5-6 dates she was, despite being super-hot, a complete disappointment (lights out, under the covers, missionary position only). Women are either attracted to you right away or else they never are.
[…] I’ve stated in many previous posts, properly motivated, women will move across the country, crawl under barbed wire and out a 2 story […]
[…] reasoning I’ve come to expect from the Hooking Up Beta crowd when discussing the merits of Waiting for It. Side note: please do read the short bio of Giulia Simolo for an enlightening brief on what makes […]
[…] Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 […]
[…] partially covered this dynamic in the now infamous Wait For It? post: If she’s perceiving your value as as high as it should be, she wont hesitate longer than […]
Boys you all sound like gorgeous men. Aside from all the ponderings, I think women love bastards cos you’re sexy and men love girls who just chill about the lot and do it if it feels right. Its not rocket science, we aren’t here for a long time – but a good time. Help me out with my predicament. My guy is movie star stunning and makes me tingle like a star. His previous life as a class A Player has menat that it is he who is holding out! Im quivering at the thought…but perturbed as I don’t think… Read more »
I’m not a guy but the whole attitude of loving bastards is going to set you up for a lifetime of heartache.
Hmmmm….There seems to be a false dichotomy here. The assumption I’m getting is that if sex isn’t had within 1-3 dates that there isn’t an underlying animal lustful attraction. The woman must have ulterior motives in pursuing the relationship. I disagree. Me and my girlfriend at university waited around 3-4 months before P in V sex and believe me, there was magnetic animal attraction. We enjoyed a long healthy very sexually active and fulfilling relationship for 2 years after that. There is something powerful about showing that you can both be fully human and reign in that animal lust for… Read more »
Hey roll, you have pretty decent blog, but you guys are dead wrong about pushing past last minute resistance, especially if the chick has been drinking… That’s rape, and it will fuck with a woman to no end for years to come (most of them are crazy/emotional enough minus being raped). If you have to get a woman drunk for her to have sex with you, you’re doing something wrong.. If the woman isn’t pursuing YOU for sex, you’re doing something wrong. If she’s not, Man up and move on.
[…] On August 19th, 2011, I had no idea who a good 80% of the bloggers you see in my blog roll were, and that’s not mentioning the ones I read, or locked horns with, regularly who aren’t in that last. I had no idea who Dalrock was, or Krauser who I’d unknowingly inspired to so much insight. I knew Roissy before he adopted Heartiste and of course I was familiar with Roosh before I began blogging. I was welcomed by them as well as Ferdinand from the gone but not forgotten In Mala Fide. Before October of last year,… Read more »
Hey bill, Take off your “this is what a feminist looks like” shirt. As most men know, LMR is often just for show. “guys” like you wouldn’t know that though. I’ve had straight up booty calls give LMR. Are you telling me that’s rape? Btw, many women use alcohol as an excuse to get laid because women like to think it wasn’t their idea or things just happened. The only way it’s gonna fuck with them is when they settle for a beta and they’re forever nostalgic about the alpha they couldn’t snare. It’s my face they picture when you’re… Read more »
Yes, I’m telling you that’s rape. It’s the face of a rapist that they picture. You’re a rapist. Make sure to keep your rapist shirt on so women don’t have to figure out the hard way.
[…] caught a lot of grief in the past from angry women for suggesting that all women have an ‘inner slut’ and that all a guy need do is be the right man at the right time to bring this out in them. I think […]
[…] http://raisethehammer.org/article/155/driving_me_crazy http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/ […]
I commented on this already, but got more thoughts. If she doesn’t have sex with you soon, it might mean she isn’t that into you. But it can also mean she wants you badly, but also for commitment. All those guys she fucked on the first date were just a way to have fun and not for commitment. But often, guys are insulted when a girl wants them to buy what she gave to others for free. It’s weird how logical this is from a woman’s point of view, and how, at the same time, it’s logical for a man… Read more »
I like the article and I agree with many of its points.. but can you please proof-read it next time? There are so many grammatical errors.
>> Women date quite extensively these days
Well Neecy, maybe that is part of your problem. And it is the woman’s problem. Because I don’t see a bunch a 39 year old men writing blogposts about “where did all the good men go?”. I see those men in Asia and East Europe.
[…] [Wait for it?] […]
If she doesn’t have sex after 3 dates then she’s not into me. But if she does, then doesn’t that qualify her as “slutty” and not marriage material?
How would I know if she wanted to take it slow, but really was inot me? Does such a thing exist any more?
Read this followup:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/07/three-strikes/
hi.
you used the word TART and for that I probably love you.
Some women don’t want to have sex with you “right now” because they don’t want to be seen as worthless sluts who are no relationship material, even (especially) if they like you.
There are many men who dont want a woman that is “easy to have” or “used up” for a relationship or marriage.
Having recently discovered, and recently read the book version of “The Rational Male,” and now going through the archives to read it all, I am doubtless commenting on things that have been said elsewhere that I haven’t read. But I think most of the responses take this blog’s points much too extreme. My wife and I, before getting married, were both virgins, both committed to waiting until marriage, so the question of waiting for it wasn’t in the mix in the most literal means. The real crux of this blog is the question of desire, and whether it is there… Read more »
Interesting read. I think that it is important to judge the female that wants to wait a bit by her overall receptivity, body language, etc. I’ve had the following happen a few times. The woman appears very into me and is more than happy to kiss passionately on the first date. By the second date we are all over each other but she seems a bit hesitant to get fully nude, etc. However, she is being very passionate, grinding her crotch against me, sweaty and red in the face, breathing deeply….she wants it but just wants to wait a bit… Read more »
Agreed wholeheartedly. A woman who “makes you wait” is sublimating her desire to fuck you (if she actually wants to fuck you in the first place, that is) to tease resources out of you in the form of dinners, dates, entertainment, validation, etc. A woman who feels that chemistry and wants to connect will still care about the resources but they’ll be secondary. Also, in my experience, waiting a long while for sex doesn’t make it any better. You’d think it would because you’re emotionally investing in the prospect of finally getting it on. But it actually has the opposite… Read more »
That’s not necessarily truth outside the US, me and some of my friends are not one night stand girls.
Why would you “Hoe a Road”? It’s “Tough Row to Hoe” as in hoeing a row to plant vegetables. C’mon stop mixing your metaphors.
This is wisdom that I even see guys with “Game” screw up. I learned this fundamental rule as a sales rep to corporations. I look for the client engaging in what I call “buying behaviors” and my whole approach initially is to stimulate buying behaviors, not “selling”. With women, any PUA technique or a zillion other resources will tell you about the body language and behavior involved. If you are meeting up with the women for the first time after meeting her in another setting where fucking was impossible, simply look at the logistics of what she agreed to. When?… Read more »
[…] I’ve stated before, a woman who want’s to fuck you will find a way to fuck you. If a woman needs to be ‘trained’ to be more sexual and less self-conscious than it […]
[…] during Occupy Wall Street while spending the whole time getting banged by a bunch of losers? As Rollo Tomassi so succinctly puts […]
“The girl who tells you she needs to be comfortable and wants a relationship first is the same girl who fucked the hot guy in the foam cannon party in Cancun on spring break just half an hour after meeting him.” I don’t want to turn this into a NAWALT argument. I’ve known people of both sexes who are demisexual, in that they need to have some sort of loving relationship with a potential partner before feeling ready to have any sort of physical intimacy. I was in a “just friends” relationship with my FwB for a little over a year… Read more »
[…] Rollo’s said if a woman’s interested in you, she won’t confuse you. […]
Referring to women that want and choose to have sex with you as sluts is sexist and degrading. This is misogynist BS!
LOL- Way old post to be pinging now, but just had to pop in a comment about: The Rules!
That goofy book from 1995 that put “making yourself unavailable” and “not having sex until after 3 dates” front and center.
Back in the day there was a truism among the then-fledgling Seductionist community that when you met a Rules Girl you spent 3 dates (strategicly chosen to minimize resource usage) building attraction and lust- then had her over for a “Closing Date” at your place to “watch a movie” or “make dinner.”
[…] I published Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 I received (and periodically still receive) a rash of criticism from the femosphere for insisting […]
[…] I was writing the final edits of the Wait For It? post for the Rational Male book I felt that I needed to add a caveat towards the end of that […]
does this still apply to girls who are virgins? im still in high school so most of the girls are vrigins and i kinda have a sick fascination with being the guy that takes a number of virgnities, so my question really is: Is it ok to give it a bit more time and allow her to build comfort to the point so i can fuck her or do i need to press the issue?
@Greg, read Three Strikes:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/07/three-strikes/
[…] I’ve stated before, a woman who is into you wont confuse you, but a lot of men (particularly overly conditioned Betas) come to believe that any impropriety on […]
Recent story that’s on point here.. Met a woman my age on match two weeks ago (both of us middle aged). She’s beautiful, mature, has her shit together, and importantly, in my book, very classy. Set up a date.. Turns out to be 30 degrees that night with freezing rain. Normally chicks insist to meet up on a blind first date (so they can bail, so you don’t know where they live, etc.) But at the risk of her flaking, I called her and said, “I don’t want you on the road in this mess, I’d like to pick you… Read more »
…aaaaaaaaand she flaked. HA HA HA.. AWALT. I think I just hit the right part of her cycle.. This aspect is very underrated, I think.
Thanks Rollo, I went with, and against, some of the methodologies on this site. The results almost PERFECTLY proved what works and what doesn’t.. The trap is letting her make you believe she’s different somehow, and you can let your guard down. She’s not, and you can’t. Am I embarrassed.. Hell no! Am I depressed.. Uh, no. I’m emboldened, relieved, free, and wiser. Live and learn and Party on.
Let’s reverse the feminine social agenda and see how hilarious Neecy’s post looks if a man were to say it. Kind of eye-opening how important and special their ginas are. “Rollo, Are you advocating or suggesting men who chose not to screw women on 1-3 dates or within a shorter time frame where he doesn’t know her very well are men who are not worth waiting for? That a man that prefers to wait to get to know a girl he has the hots for better before sleeping with her is not a man worth waiting for? Are these men… Read more »
[…] parcial y reinterpretación del artículo: “Wait for it?” escrito por Rollo Tomassi para The Rational […]
[…] Betafied men who are foolish enough to have been bamboozled by UCKG’s glossy corporate identity and been lassoed into a blue-ball waiting game by one of its women followers would be well advised to remind himself to Iron Rule of Tomassi #3: […]
Reblogged this on Philosophies of a Disenchanted Scholar and commented:
Expecting every woman to jump into bed with you is such a hilariously American thing. u k ‘Murrica?
Is there a list of all iron rules in one place? This is frankly rather maddening.
http://therationalmale.com/the-best-of-rational-male-year-one/
You could buy the first book too…
[…] http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/ […]
[…] Betafied men who are foolish enough to have been bamboozled by UCKG’s glossy corporate identity and been lassoed into a blue-ball waiting game by one of its women followers would be well advised to remind himself to Iron Rule of Tomassi #3: […]
“It’s not that I don’t want you….Far from it….It’s that I really do like you and I don’t want to move too fast.” These EXACT words were told to me just the other day by a girl I have been talking to. She’s in her early 30’s and she’s a divorcee with no kids. I really do enjoy her company and she’s very pretty. She was raised by her grandparents because her father left her mother early on, and her mother wasn’t really there for her, so I think her grandparents instilled more traditional beliefs. She has some great characteristics;… Read more »
OK Captain, read these links next:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/04/taking-things-slow/
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/07/three-strikes/
http://therationalmale.com/2012/12/19/the-epiphany-phase/
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/19/next/
@Captain J – I think when dating a potential LTR, waiting a few dates or weeks with the sex progressing is okay but it doesn’t sound to me like that’s what she’s doing. I mean, you say “first base” – so you are just kissing? While a girl might wait to give up the vaj, she should certainly be playing with your dick by now. And by date 5-6? You are either fucking her and sex has become a big part of the relationship or something isn’t kosher. She seems right on the timeline for consolidating on a Beta provider… Read more »
@CaptainJ – A few more more thoughts. I’ve seen mature women do the delaying sex thing when they are fucking another guy. This somehow computes as okay to a certain kind of passive-aggressive “good girl” type, she may very well be plate spinning herself. It would also fit in with her fucking the ex and being an alpha widow. Another possibility is that she has a serious STD like Herpes or even HIV and doesn’t know how to tell you. I had a girlfriend who had Herpes who was really weird about escalating to sex and finally she broke down… Read more »
@ Glenn & Rollo: thank you both SO MUCH for your help and advice, which I truly found quite brilliant. I really appreciate both of you taking the time to give me some advice and pointers, and good advice at that. Unfortunately, knowing the right thing to do, and actually doing it, are sometimes separate and distinct things, and of course, I fucked up. In hindsight, I wished I had heeded your advice, but my beta-ness took over, blinded by the possibility of milfy latina vajayjay, and already painfully starved from intercourse and affection of any sort. So what did… Read more »
Also….fuck I wish I had read Iron Rule #9 more attentively before sending her that reconciliation text…damn.
[…] when I first published Wait For It? (it was actually based on a much older post I did on SoSuave) I took a lot of shit for suggesting […]
Neecy. The primary rule of sexual strategy is that for one genders sexual strategy to work the other must forfeit thier own. I took this as getting the best out of the opposite sex. Of course he doesn’t teach that to his daughter, he will teach her to get the best out of men she possibly can. As this is a blog meant to help men, he describes how men will get the best out of women they can. If a woman is not having sex with you within three dates, she will likely use sex as a bargaining tool… Read more »
[…] Si te quieren hacer esperar por el sexo, no vale la pena […]
[…] Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 […]
[…] you’re feeling nostalgic you can skim through the comments of posts like Wait For It? or The […]
the woman you’re describing who has no standards in how she’s courted and who would hide in a closet to have sex with you is low status. the real difference between a girl who is cautious with who she shares herself with, and a girl who gives in to urges easily (non-discriminating) is simply self-respect. who would you rather?
How completely disempowering. If sexuality is a spontaneous chemical reaction that you have no control over, indeed you are doomed. Not once does the “rational male” in this article speak about accountability, virtue, or the future. Yikes. Maybe this site could be called the impatientpenis.com.
“How completely disempowering. If sexuality is a spontaneous chemical reaction that you have no control over, indeed you are doomed. Not once does the “rational male” in this article speak about accountability, virtue, or the future. Yikes. Maybe this site could be called the impatientpenis.com.” You are a nice person. It is clear from your use of wise words like accountability, virtue and future. Continue “empowering” yourself. But your girlfriend will still yikes you in good time. No one is forcing you to see that sexual desire is a chemical state. You do not argue against reality with a belief.… Read more »
Some good stuff here, but I have to say that the #1 reason I didn’t have sex right away with a guy I was really into was BECAUSE I was really into him. And for that reason, I didn’t want him to think I’m “some tart who can’t keep her legs closed”. Plus I disagree about sex not being worth the wait. When you establish emotional intimacy before being sexually intimate, when you finally get down, the sex is much better because trust has already been established. You can be totally in the moment, you’re not wondering if he approves… Read more »
Girl 1: “So, would you have sex with a guy on the night you met him?”
Girl 2: “Yes, but only if he wasn’t relationship material.”
Girl Logic
[…] del relato cuando nos sucede. Si sentis como que te estan liderando o que te están haciendo esperar por sexo, es porque estas actuando bajo su relato. ¿Te sentis en ‘Amigolandia’ o aceptaste los […]
[…] (Enlace al original en inglés) […]
Good article…having to read it again later because lots of important points there.
Still astounds me how many ladies like “to be comfortable” in order to fuck….and now i know why….she getting penis from other sources so why bang me?
Just wish we were all a bit sluttier 🙂
What many feminists really fear is that men will emigrate to countries where prostitution is legal. Half of the world’s countries either have legalized it or simply tolerate it. One of them is English-speaking New Zealand. Closer to home you have Mexico, most of Central America, Colombia, Venezuela, probably Brazil, and Ecuador. You have countries in Eastern and Central Europe where it’s legal.
[…] Those are the guys who feel the sting the most when they see a woman at her feral best fuck the hot guy she met the same night who made a significant emotional impression on her. The guy who invested his interests in himself […]
[…] Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 […]
[…] Iron Rule of Tomassi #3 […]
Reblogged this on eghost247.
[…] used. If it’s a facade – it’s normal and expected. But if a girl deliberately makes you wait for sex that means she’s not that into you but at the moment she doesn’t have better options. […]
When a woman makes you wait for sex you are not her highest priority. One’s highest priority during the beginning of a date/potential relationship should always be oneself. This goes for men and women alike. If a guy does something that raises a red flag during the first few dates (maybe he shows himself to be a racist, or is incredibly rude to cashiers/waiters, or is extremely religious) I can next him. However, I can’t next myself if I forgo my own likes/dislikes simply to pedestalize a dude I’ve only known for less than a day. Always take care of… Read more »