(h/t Zelscorpion for the screen cap)
In Women Behaving Badly I made mention of Dalrock’s standing assertions that the context of romantic love has superseded the condition of a committed monogamy – traditionally marriage – as an idealized goal-state. Essentially this represents a reversal of a previous intersexual dynamic that served as a check and balance of women’s innate Hypergamy:
What nearly all modern Christians have done is place romantic love above marriage. Instead of seeing marriage as the moral context to pursue romantic love and sex, romantic love is now seen as the moral place to experience sex and marriage. This inversion is subtle enough that no one seems to have noticed, but if you look for it you will see it everywhere.
Lifetime marriage, with separate defined roles for husband and wife and true commitment is what makes sex and romantic love moral in the biblical view. In our new view, romantic love makes sex moral, and the purpose of marriage is to publicly declare that you are experiencing the highest form of romantic love. Thus people now commonly refer to a wedding as “making our love official”.
The gradations we now apply to romantic love are symptomatic of the problem. We take great care to distinguish between “pure love” or “true love” and mere “infatuation” or “puppy love”.
[…] Because it is love and not marriage which now confers morality upon sex, sex outside of marriage is now considered moral so long as you are in love. Thus we have the modern harlot’s defense/anthem “but we were in love!”
I think what Dal was getting at with this (and I hope he’ll comment) has a much broader reach than just in Christian (“Churchian”) culture. I think this raising of romantic love to the highest order is more punctuated in a religious context because, doctrinally, it should be the reverse. In an objective secular context this reversal is all but taken for granted.
In an age of feminine social primacy women’s feelings of romance are at a premium. We matter of factly presume that it’s a man’s responsibility to not only invest himself in, and provide resources for, his wife and children’s wellbeing, but it’s also (almost exclusively) his burden of performance to stimulate and maintain his wife’s romantic interests.
I’ve argued the position that women (of today) don’t find the ‘good guy‘ – a man attempting to embody the best aspects of Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks – a believable role. My assertion is that women expect and desire those aspects in different men at different times as needed, however, the social narrative still places that “best of both aspects” burden on a man who does commit to a woman in the long term.
With the exception of only the most adept, affluent and exceptional of men, this expectation is a sisyphean recipe for failure. No matter which aspect he excels in the other aspect potentially becomes his personal flaw. Although his personal strengths may compensate, feminine-primary social expectations place him in a no-win position.
Wives Hate Sex
Badpainter and Sun Wukong had an interesting exchange in this week’s comment thread:
Newgal states clearly women must be sluts for men to get laid. This also means women must be sluts for women to get laid. Why must that be true? Because Newgal alludes to a dirty little truth so ingrained in the social consciousness it’s a cliché: wives hate sex. Therefore women, sluts and otherwise, get married so they can stop having sex except as necessary to get pregnant.
Think about it.
The girlfriend provides sex good enough to motivate a desire in the man to commit. After the wedding is a period of at least adequate sex followed by a decline to little or nothing if she can get away with this. When the wife becomes suitably frustrated/disenchanted with the marriage she changes title to divorcée and is again free to become a sexual creature.
The source of the problem is that women have very little sense of self that is internally derived therefore they play roles defined externally. These roles are proxies for their identities which barely exist. In 2015 wives are not defined as sexually giving, or sexual at all except for the honeymoon period. If the sexual wife exists in this culture it as the adulteress giving herself to men other than her husband.
Sun Wukong
Oh absolutely. The wife that hates sex is such a “thing” now I really think it’s what makes even Blue Pill guys at least pause on their way to the altar. “Do I really want to put a libido draining fat license on her finger?” I think that premise is largely built out of feminine cynicism about settling for [Beta Bucks]. They all know the script so well that they assume they’re going to marry a guy they don’t want to fuck. Imagine that: assuming you’re going to hate sex for the rest of your life.
What a horrendously awful view of a man you haven’t even met yet. And he’s not even met you but assumes he’ll be happily making love to you for the rest of his life and you’ll do the same. What a disconnect. Oh well, at least the kids will be happy right? Anybody?
What Badpainter and Sun have illustrated here is the direct result of placing a romantic condition for love as the prime requisite for a committed relationship. It’s important to grasp that any relationship founded on genuine desire will necessitate genuine passion and not a small amount of feral lust, however, it is exactly this pre-commitment (Alpha Fucks) sexual chemistry that will later become the exclusive responsibility of a man in that commitment.
The character that is a wife is now socially and popularly expected to move into a sexless, passionless and unexciting condition by being married today. All Epiphany Phase rationalizations aside, marriage is viewed as the end of the party. Being a wife is boring by comparison.
I explored this in detail in Beta Fucks and As Good As It Gets, but what I find ironic in light of Dalrock’s assertions about romance-primary intergender dynamics is that the very pretense of that romantic “true love” context that supposedly legitimizes sex is killed within the confines of marriage. In fact, women expect and anticipate that the sexual desire they find so important in that romantic context will necessarily die once they become a ‘wife’.
The pretext of being a ‘wife’ is a socially excusable expectation of progressively losing sexual affinity for the man she’s agrees to marry, so what woman wants to be a wife? Women become wives due to the necessities an ever-decreasing capacity to maintain being a lover requires of them.
I expect that most women will disagree with me on a personal level; it’s not in women’s best interest to acknowledge that wives hate sex – perpetuating the belief that sex gets better after marriage is a necessity men need to internalize in order to commit. Whether or not this is true for a woman on a personal basis isn’t my point. The point is that the societal message is one that marriage will necessarily kill a couples’ passionate sexual connection in comparison to their single, romance-based sexual connection.
Why ruin a perfectly good relationship with marriage?
The Myth of Mismatched Libidos
Once married, there are myriad social conventions already emplaced for a wife to rely upon as she moves from exciting singleness into mundane, but necessary, long-term commitment. Most of these she’s already been conditioned to expect she can rely on. ‘Mismatched Libidos’ is a common refrain for women (and marriage counselors) who come to a point where they can no longer palate the “duty sex” they felt responsible for in the beginnings of their marriage.
Her husband isn’t expected to provide the ‘tingles, but he’s still responsible for the failure to create them. As I said, only the most exceptional of men can effortlessly inspire the admiration necessary to maintain a woman’s Hypergamous interest. If you have a read of the screen cap Zel provided us with for this post you’ll get an idea of how those pre-made social conventions work in tandem with men’s default responsibility of satisfying a woman’s endless discontent.
The deference is always to the feminine, thus any problem (particularly sexual ones) he has with her become his personal issues and flaws. Any deviation, any dissatisfaction, with the ready-made social conventions set in place to excuse the female sexual strategy are solely his responsibility and his character flaws.
In last week’s post comments I quoted the following confessional from Love Shack:
My wife called me today and was all excited about some beachfront apartment she saw. She wants us to buy it for vacations and such.
Now here I am .. I just turned 50. My youngest is going to college this year and I guess I just realized that I’m no longer bound to her.
The last 20 years has been a long series of quickies and 3 minutes handjobs every 3-4 weeks. In between, I spent my prime sexual years mostly masturbating to get off. Now that I’m 50, my drive is still good, but it’s not what it was.
I had tried everything I could think of over those 20 years to get things on track. I was exemplary with chores around the house, I was attentive to her emotional needs as far as I could anticipate them, and even if I do say so myself – I’ve kept myself in outstanding shape (although that was more for me).
On the other hand, I look back and I can hardly remember a time that she spontaneously gave me a neck rub, or cooked something just for me as opposed to all of us, and certainly not even attempting to do something special for me sexually (yeah, I have a minor kink or two).
But when she asked me to buy a beachfront place today – my immediate reaction was annoyance. I realized then that I feel resentful. I have decided to leave her. There is absolutely nothing she can do now to change anything because the past cannot be changed.
This man’s situation represents the ending phase of a chronic lack of admiration on his wife’s part. It would be easy to point out his role is one of being the dutiful unconsidered provider in his wife’s Frame, however, consideration is never a motivator of genuine desire for a woman. Only admiration and an ambient imagination of losing the focus of it inspires genuine desire.
Girl With A Dragonfly Tattoo had a post recently outlining the expectations of women interested in “seducing” a man. On GWADT’s blog what’s implied is that this man is in fact her husband to begin with. What makes her points so difficult for married women to digest is that they should ever need to make an effort to do so. The reason this is so alien a thought to married women is because the men they wanted to seduce were the men they knew before they became ‘wives’. Wives have no use for seduction, and particularly so with the Beta men they settled for around their Epiphany Phase. Seduction, compassion, appreciation (such as can be expected of a woman) only become a necessity when women are subjected to a real preoccupation with losing a valuable man – a man they admire.
Even in Frank Sinatra’s time wives had to be told to be lovers too.
April 4th, 2015 at 10:05 am
Pam sez: “I can’t imagine getting into a relationship (let alone marrying a guy?!) if you have to act as though you enjoy him physically? Seriously?”
This is not mismatched libidos she’s talking about. This is Alpha Fucks. Wait for the epiphany and she’ll settle for Mr. Goodenough.
April 4th, 2015 at 10:16 am
FI Alert: Check out a movie on Netflix, Ask Me Anything – it’s FI-porn cheering on 18 yr old girls jumping on the cock carousel. In it, the main character, a nubile, waif-like blonde 18 yr old cutie preens and sluts herself about with reckless abandon. It’s not an unfamiliar motif but in this movie it’s taken to a lascivious, in your face, all-male denigrating place that i think is something new and vile.
Any women following along at home here, here is some homework for you. Watch that movie and tell me, what is it demonstrating? I could only get through the first 20 minutes, but wow, is there a man in the script who hasn’t fallen prey to this child’s magical powers of nubility?
Having raised a daughter (as a noncustodial but involved Dad), watching how young women (my daughter and her friends) sexually mature up close was quite an education. While I of course always studiously avoided any appearance of being inappropriate, it was hard not to notice how quickly teen girls mature.This is prime time for a woman’s fecundity and also, as a man, I’m programmed to find nubility attractive. I also think one of the reasons that teen girls rebel is because they cannot take being infantilized any longer, in that by age 15, 200 years ago, that teen screaming at you “I’m not a child any more” really wasn’t…
What’s also worth noting is the non-stop shaming of older men’s interest in young women. Interestingly, in the real world, the young women I’m interested in just “get it” – of course I’m interested in hot young women, I mean, who isn’t? This alone, letting go of any shame I used to have about wanting to fuck young women is worth the entire price of the Red Pill in some very real ways. I used to think I was a pig for wanting to bang 19 year olds – now I embrace it. The only people who criticize my interest in young, nubile women are older women, lol. Fuck them, or rather, no I can’t fuck them. You know why? They don’t make me hard. And unlike other men they’ve trained like slaves, I won’t take a pill so I can get hard to fuck someone who doesn’t turn me on.
Can you imagine men telling their wives they should take a pill to get turned on so we could fuck them more? But men gobble down ED pills by the tens of millions every year. What a world.
April 4th, 2015 at 10:41 am
@pam
“I spent a lot of time travelling. Whether it was to his parents’ place when he was home or the hour train ride to his college. I also supported him when I had the opportunity, referring him to my father’s company during one of his co-op placements. And When he was struggling to get off of weed I massaged him down from his stress block. In terms of sordid details, I hate to put it out there, but… I put on a number of “shows”, inciting (usually successful) attempts at pretty much every imaginable position.”
“We were each other’s firsts … he confessed to sleeping around DURING the relationship”
“He later told me that he had tried to break things off … he was a smart guy, funny. Not classically handsome, but in shape and friendly looking. He was pretty good with his finances, but a student, so not rich”
If you could go back in time what would you change? Likely this is not on you. Since he was fucking other women and wanted to break off, you didn’t do it for him. The helping him with work placements and massage was nice, but in terms of marriage and kids, it’s another level. You have three roles you need to do well in, mother, wife, lover, and you show these by actions (for example volunteer work with children), and in return you expect a guy to be a good father, husband, lover. If you are not having kids in the next few years, don’t get married.
April 4th, 2015 at 11:36 am
Glenn,
I make no claims other than serendipity for finding some like minded masculine males who “get” what a red pill existence means to them and me.
Definitely sounds like you are having trouble getting through the Kubler Ross stages of loss/grief.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/25/the-5-stages-of-unplugging/
I learned in retrospect that this group of guys, a gang of like-minded individuals had similar phenotypes to me. The Meyer’s Briggs Personality Type Indicator helped me define my strengths and weaknesses as a personality and to realize why my thoughts and discussions resonated so well with two guys from my deer hunting habitat and two guys from my country club group. You can’t go out and have a questionnaire for prospective guy friends, but you know if another guy fits your red pill positive mindset perspective.
Meyers Briggs personality typing has some flaws because it was base on Jungian premises. (He’s the bastard that lowered the floodgates to equalist feminism). It is flawed for most of “average people” because it presumes people have polar traits, whereas average dumbfuck people are on a bell curve. But for people like you and me, aren’t we two standard deviations along a bell curve? Exactly. So we have polar tendencies.
That being said, you sound like an INTJ type. With an emphasis on the J. Highly idealistic but yet critical and judgemental of the common man that can’t live up to high standards.
You can find out in 12 minutes and explore you type with its strength and weaknesses at 16personalities.com.
Knowing my wife’s MBPI type allowed me to be able to understand and employ Roissy’s ninth Commandment of Poon. And it was Athol Kay’s “Mindful Attraction Plan” a neutered purple pill version of his MMSL book that gave me the ability to not push Red Light buttons in my marriage rather that go with the Green light flow and work on the Yellow lights.
April 4th, 2015 at 11:56 am
Glenn – “KFG – although I’m at the point with all this that I just don’t bother talking to women . . .”
Hey, remember me? I’m the guy who had your back when Kate was trying to mother hen you.
If my comment doesn’t resonate with you, go with something else. It’s not the skin on my nose that’s at risk. As I said, I cannot choose for you and won’t lie to you to feign a definitive answer.
And I concur with the advice to read Jack Donovan and find a group of like minded brothers. That is, in fact, totally in line with what I said. In fact, it’s what I have said on quite a number of occasions. It may well be the path you choose.
There are much worse paths. Second Wave feminism is one path that was taken. The problem that has no name had been named over a century before Betty Friedan encountered it, but being a women she believed it was an experience unique to her, and thus to all women; and women alone.
A woman’s answer to you would be to fuck off, men aren’t sophisticated enough creatures to experience existential angst.
April 4th, 2015 at 12:48 pm
@LiveFearless
*Was there a mismatched libido phenomenon with her prior to your marriage?*
It’s hard to say.
By the time I met my wife at age around 28, I had only had 2 girlfriends by that point, and had has sex with exactly 4 total. This was mostly when I was younger, 19 to early 20’s. I went years without having sex.
It wasn’t that I was a troll, either. Could have been in better shape, definitely needed to stop dressing like a dweeb, but I’m wasn’t ugly (although may have thought it). I was just utterly fucking clueless. I had opportunities, same blatant, that I did not take advantage of, some that I only NOW realize were opportunities.
Yeah, I am one of the guys who could have definitely benefited from Red Pill and Game years ago. Where’s your goddamn time machine, Rollo!?!
So, anyway, by the time I meet my future wife, I am happy to get whatever I could, right? It’s hard to feel sexually frustrated when you’ve gone from drought to rain, even if it’s a light drizzle.
She claimed to be a virgin (minister for a dad, a pretty religious family by our region’s standards) and I believe her. I do, because I have seen no evidence of a torrid past. I could be wrong, but my gut tells me I’m not.
So, for, I don’t know, the first I don’t know how many months, she wanted to wait for intercourse (Yeah, yeah, I know what Rollo says about that, why I’m here), although we did other things. Honestly, if I had pressed, it might have been shorter.
Eventually, we started fucking as well. Might have only been a matter of a few months. I don’t remember.
We date for a few years (she was annoyed it took that long to get married, brought it up 6 months in), then get married…
Shit…this is embarrassing now that I think on it.
Look, prior to us having a kid, I was the one less interested in sex, even to the point that she brought it up. I should say less interested in it with her.
I got married because I thought I was going to be alone, feared it, thought this was my only chance based on past history.
Later, I started to feel that my wife wanted to marry me now, but would not have dated me when we were younger. Discussing it, she as much as admitted it. I don’t entirely blame her, because I didn’t have my shit together in a lot of ways. The problem is, if I did, would we have even gotten together?
It was Red Pill truth seeping into my head before I had any idea that the term existed.
The reason I was less interested in sex then is that I was beginning to sense what I would eventually learn about Red Pill.
So, post kids, my wife has less interest in sex, or I have gotten more, which is possible. Why?
About 2 years ago or so, I had some sort of epiphany of my own self-worth. Partly due to work success, partly due to finally dropping 20 pounds, I hit what sounded to me like self-actualization. I felt almost boundless, full of potential. I started writing, ALOT, after years of thinking:
“I’d like to write.”
….But doing very little of it.
That epiphany has been both a blessing and a curse.
It was a blessing because it made me realize I am capable of a lot more, that I had under-valued myself, and well, just made me feel better. It’s like my attitude for a while did a complete 180.
The flip side to that has been that I realize all the time I lost, the opportunities I wasted, and how I have sacrificed freedom of maneuver now having a family. My obligations get in the way of what I suddenly realize I would like to do, what I might be good at, and it chaffes. No, more like burns.
I am realizing I want a lot more out of life, but feel shackled. And it’s not like my wife is a shrew; she’s not a bad person or bad wife overall. And not that I would trade my kids for anything; I fucking love ‘em. I am not living the hell that a lot of guys go through.
It’s just…
There is a scene in the movie Awakenings, where Robert DiNero’s character is trying to describe what it’s like when he falls into his catatonic state. At one point, someone uses the analogy of a poem, about a Panther in a cage, pacing back and forth:
His vision, from the constantly passing bars,
has grown so weary that it cannot hold
anything else. It seems to him there are
a thousand bars; and behind the bars, no world.
As he paces in cramped circles, over and over,
the movement of his powerful soft strides
is like a ritual dance around a center
in which a mighty will stands paralyzed.
Only at times, the curtain of the pupils
lifts, quietly–. An image enters in,
rushes down through the tensed, arrested muscles,
plunges into the heart and dies
It kind of feels like that…
It’s funny, now that I think I am thinking about it.
When I had this epiphany, the feeling I most associated with it was like waking up from a slumber I had been in for a long time, and I am desperately trying not to fall back asleep.
April 4th, 2015 at 1:57 pm
@Glenn- I completely understand your existential ennui. I have experienced it before. In my early 20s when my parents died and when I turned 30 that both my best friends died. It lasted a long time and again once I found the RP. I think, or it seems to me, that that angst is literally a reaction to loss. It is a form of grief, but grief turned outwards towards the world, as opposed to the personal grief that we feel as emotion and loss.
When we lose something of great importance, of course we begin to wonder what is worth going on for and what can be the meaning of doing anything at all.
So what did you lose? What do feel is now gone from you post red pill? Not just the obvious, but personally, uniquely, to you? Make a list of then, one by one, and come to terms with consciously letting it go. part of that involves re-imagining some other alternative way of being.
For example I found the idea of not having a female as a companion/friend with whom I can have as company for the rest of my life very sad and made much of everything feel meaningless as far as being with women were concerned. I really enjoyed the fun, the banter, the “us against the world” insular feeling of having a gf I always assumed would trun to marriage and last forever. The thought of endless fucking plates just seemed sort of empty and meaningless and alot less fun. Lets be honest, ONS are so much better when we do so as part of a search for a ltr. Knowing we will eventually settle down is part of the fun of screwing around.. to me at least. Anyway, once I accepted RP I found no motivation to really do anything t all with women. What was the point? It became meaningless and a part of my ennui. When I realized that it was the loss of this ideal that made me feel that way I consciousness tried to re-imagine alternative and came up with this- I can fully connect, have fun and befriend women in that way.. what the RP taught me was the futility of trying to hold on to it past its “moment” and so I imagined a life of meeting really cool women, connecting with them deeply, enjoying all those things, even loving them and being loved by them, but never needing them, enjoying the connection in the moment then letting it go once hypergamy/epiphany or any other female induced fickleness ended it. I imagined myself keeping it cool, beginning to end,using RP knowledge and game to exit gracefully and preserving mutual and self respect. I have even started to see a certain beauty to it. Two ships in the night so to speak..
In this way I keep true to my RP truths, I also replace one ideal for another, and stay honest with myself. The connections are real and fulfilling,, I just abandon the idea permanence..much the same way I lost my ideal of permanence when my best friend died. Nothing is permanent. And maybe that is the ultimate lesson of existential angst.
Sorry for he rambling post, I’m writing off the cuff and my thoughts are spilling over. Just felt the need to respond because, yes brother, we all feel it, at least I do as well. It is not just you.
April 4th, 2015 at 2:10 pm
@KFG – Ooops. Okay, still sounds like crap to me. I thought you were a woman, yeah, I remember now, my mistake.
April 4th, 2015 at 3:10 pm
@Seraph
When I was growing up I felt the same way. Things where not as they seemed. The thing I find hilarious is the amount of denial I was putting myself in.
April 4th, 2015 at 3:31 pm
I want to thank you all again. I am reading and reading. It is changing my perspective.
I am planning to tell her “See you” , do not let the door hit your behind ” tomorrow. I am grateful to you all.
April 4th, 2015 at 3:48 pm
Why so soon?
What about the script to go silent for two weeks, instilling nuclear dread, have make-up sex and then dump her.
April 4th, 2015 at 3:59 pm
I have been treated like a “chump” for too long now. She can do this to someone else.
I deserve better.
April 4th, 2015 at 4:03 pm
@ midwestboi…..show this page to your friends…friends who are ready for this. Help to spread the wisdom in here. It’s time to spread this all over the fucking world
Enjoy and welcome.
April 4th, 2015 at 4:09 pm
An a lighter note
“Every man’s life ends the same way. It is only the details of how he lived and how he died that distinguish one man from another.”
― Ernest Hemingway
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/dv/dvs022.htm
http://www.sacred-texts.com/aor/dv/dvs024.htm
April 4th, 2015 at 4:14 pm
I read some of your comments. Some of Rollo’s essays, and this is my conclusion:
I would rather be alone at the South Pole fighting bears than spend another second with a manipulative, lying, deceiving woman.
I am nobody’s piece of crap. Thank you all and this site is awesome.
April 4th, 2015 at 4:43 pm
So I gave a recent print copy of TRM to the 17-year-old sailing buddy. He comes from divorced parents, spends most time with mom, you know the story. He comes up to me a few days after giving it to him and says, “Hey, my mom saw that book you gave me.” I winced out, “oh no.. ” He then says, “She shook her head and said, ‘that doesn’t exist.'”
At first I kind of chuckled with him. Hours later I found myself disgusted, a mother telling her SON, “rational males don’t exist.” Can you imagine the screeching from a father telling his daughter that rational females don’t exist?
April 4th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
@Jeremy Think of the power you’ve just given to that young man.
I’ve used the analogy before…
Only a few pages of either “The Rational Male” (volume) is equivalent to giving human growth hormone to the height-challenged boy.
His life at 6’3″ will be much enhanced over the 5’8″ he would have been.
World leaders are built with these two books. I’m looking forward to Volume Three.
April 4th, 2015 at 5:00 pm
@Jeremy
Yeah. I heard shit like that from my mom constantly. She railed hard on men. Complained about men. Took out all her frustrations about men on me. A couple decades on she can’t figure out why saying “I’m sorry about hitting you” once when I was 22 didn’t make me want to use up all my vacation time at every job visiting her. Bringing up all the constant misandry and grinding down of my self-esteem only resulted in being told to get over it.
Apologies don’t seem very genuine when they’re selective, do they?
Mothers like that destroy developing men without fail, then wonder why their daughters can’t find a good sucker to marry. At least the kid will be reassured after reading the book that his mother was just projecting. Fucking bitch.
@midwestboi
You’re going to be angry and a little bitter for a while. While it’s OK that you go through it, don’t let yourself stay there, alright? As much as guys come to this community and focus heavily on the parts about understanding women, the most important part of TRP is improving you. Focus on women all the time and all you’ll feel is anger and resentment. You’re gonna have to live with that guy in the mirror every day for the rest of your life whether you deal with women or not. Make sure that waking up and looking him in the eye is something you look forward to in the long run.
For the record, I wish our advice to guys like you could be to hand you a magic pill, save the impending marriage (and turn it in to something wonderful), and not show you this long, difficult road you have to walk. I don’t like that the best advice is some form of “walk away”. But we want guys that come here to become better, happier men. No henpecked Beta locked in a sexless marriage under threat of divorce rape is a happy man though, and we all know that.
Maybe some day you’ll find a happy marriage with an awesome chick, and maybe you won’t. At least now you won’t have to deal with the baggage of a divorce hanging over your head if that time comes.
April 4th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
MWB will be a hell of a lot less bitter now, having read all this material before becoming some sluts beta-bucks hubby than he would after being run through the divorce ringer.
April 4th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
@jeremy @sun wukong
Both your comments make me think of this http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-C6ai4muhYn7/the_aviator_2004_mother_gives_a_bath/
It’s weird my mother still can emotionally destroy me it with a red pill mindset I can move past that.
April 4th, 2015 at 7:56 pm
@rugby
For the past few years, even before TRP, I had been slowly asserting my frame over interactions between myself and my mother. Interactions between us occur entirely in my frame now. Her past behaviors were deplorable and now she duplicitously pretends the past didn’t happen, but I’ve learned to recognize it as female solipsism and protection of her self image.
She failed at a lot of life, but she wants to believe she at least did awesome raising kids. Objectively, she sucked at it; I was abused physically and psychologically, my sister was abused psychologically. I wound up incel, depressed, self-hating, and unable to achieve even modest success for a decade and a half. My sister now has her first failed marriage to her high school Alpha varsity quarterback turned deadbeat at 35, and my mother has never met my niece because my sister stopped talking to her after mom caught her stealing money from her. But she did an awesome job raising kids. Pure solipsistic ego protection.
Makes it a lot easier to hold frame when you realize what’s going on internally is entirely about protecting themselves and that attacking you is just incidental to that.
April 4th, 2015 at 8:22 pm
@Sun wukong
I can relate my mother would encourage my father to immaculate me whenever i “misbehaved” it wasn’t helpful because my farther would beat me up to meet my mothers needs. I tried to avoid my family because the red pill is frame. No one is heathly in a blue pill frame if their is one? Both my parents held strong beliefs about God that was mostly coming from the femanine. My sisters would do open hypegamy while stealing from my mother and making her look crazy.
It’s weird because the red pill explains their behavior but the blue pill was shoved down my throat. In a lot of ways the cardinal rid of relationships was my life and led to suicide many times growing. First was when my sister through it would be fun to put my genitals in hers at a very young age. Sounds playful? It wasn’t it was boundaries that I had a hard time setting into frame. The worst abuse was not being allowed to all about the red pill.
It’s as if someone punchs you in the face and than immediatly hugs you says the worlds I love you
Very hard to develope male friends when I was over feminized and humiliated for “just being myself” and not learning how the burden of performance was my childhood.
Here is a good example
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FI1ylg4GKv8
Family diner
Cardinal rule of relationships in order for one gender to succeed the other must sacrifice his strategy in mating.
I tried to kill myself in blue pill mindsets.
The red pill is naming the pain.
April 5th, 2015 at 12:44 am
Thank you to those have been supportive. This blog is quite an enlightening read.
@redlight
As I said earlier – I was not looking to marry the guy and have kids, I was 19 and going to college and not even certain that I wanted kids, just happy with him when we were together. And of course children are a whole other ballgame in terms of responsibilities. It is because of that fact that I have not had any interest in having children with any of the short relationships that I have been in – I always felt that if I can’t have a strong relationship, there’s no chance to be strong enough to raise a child.
@ Will
I was a dancer at the time and I have maintained that figure on the treadmill and on the skates ever since. But thank you for the simplistic answer. Please leave the real advice to the real men here.
@ midwestbio
I had a chance to read your full story and I’m glad to hear that you are getting out of that situation, for as much as that counts for anything. I’m also disappointed with your sister – if someone is hiding the history behind a friendship, there’s obviously something more to the story. If my brother had come to me with this concern, I would have asked him to stop and think about what’s really going on, why the deception. I hope that you will be able to forgive her as you find a better advisor in as much as she is your sister.
@rollo et al.
I have not read through everything, trying to take it all in as I am, and struggling to get to a proper understanding while struggling with the visceral reaction that comes from reading these posts while feeling lumped into the feminati that insist on man bashing they right off as activism or (worse) science…and I am wondering…does anyone know where to find a Red Pill woman for guidance? I really appreciate that you have (mostly) accepted me in this thread, but I do feel intrusive and it comes clear to me that much as men need the go-to of men who get it, I think I need women who are also tired of the cat fight of so-called feminism.
April 5th, 2015 at 1:24 am
@pam if you’re more interested in sex than your guy, than my answer was a serious and completely honest one. As long as you are honest with yourself than you’re good.
And the whole “real man” thing….cmon, this is a blog…you don’t know me and I don’t know you. I give honest advice to help people that is all. Take it or leave it.
April 5th, 2015 at 1:59 am
Pam the yesterday was:
“The man I was certain that I would marry broke things off to be “just friends” when I went away for college. I figured that it was just time that he needed to himself and so I waited and indeed,”
Pam the today:
“As I said earlier – I was not looking to marry the guy and have kids, I was 19 and going to college and not even certain that I wanted kids, just happy with him when we were together. ”
“I was a dancer at the time ”
Mr T is too drunk to break down you confused personality.
April 5th, 2015 at 2:18 am
@Pam- I’ve avoided commenting because, well, who cares. I’d rather give my attention to the men here on this blog who are ignored and derided by society. At least you’ll get a ton of sympathy and empathy for your “pain”, from everyone whereas the men here would be roundly blamed, shamed and insulted for even asking the question. But it’s late and I’m tired of seeing your posts, (and a bit buzzed) so let me offer as much of an answer as possible over the ‘net.
Has it occurred to you that you didn’t even love him to begin with and the only reason you are even here wondering about it is simply that your ego can not handle the fact that you were passed over? As you say yourself, you weren’t so in love with him that you wanted marriage or anything, so why the hell are you even giving a damn that it’s over? Except, of course, because he reversed the script on you.. he left you, he banged someone else.. and your entitled princess mind reacts in a primitive way to it.. he showed you he had higher value and better options.. so now that guy- the guy you had no real long term intentions with- leaves you feeling crappy tryin to suss out what happened, and in the process.. annoying us with your trivial bullshit.
There are men on this blog who got fucked in marriages, had their kids taken, spent 40-50 years living a lie, their money, their time, their fucking lives drained from them.. but here is your precious little ass asking about yourself, offering nothing to anyone in return and feeling entitled to answers.. all simply because you can not fathom that a guy you barely loved didn;t love you and want to stick around and worship you.
It’s simple, in your mind you were the one who was supposed to dump him, he was the one who was supposed to be in love with you despite your lack of intention to marry, etc. And you can not handle it.Thats not how your story was supposed to go..
One thing I have learned from watching women over 45 yrs… The only men they carry on about, the only men they respect, the only men that ever mattered.. are the ones who rejected them, fucked and dumped them, even if she never gave a fuck about him while she had him.
April 5th, 2015 at 2:28 am
Dumping the other person is the ultimate DHV.
Everyone instinctively grasps this. Nobody’s ego likes the blow it deals.
April 5th, 2015 at 6:32 am
@Pam
I find it depressing that anytime a woman comments here, people only respond to her like they’re observing a chimpanzee in a cage…although that’s not a good analogy because it suggests scientific aloofness…scrutinizing her for signs of evil rather than responding like a human being, looking for signs of confirmation of their pet theories of why all women are out to get them, rather than answering the question. It’s sad, and I think conveys a profound neediness in the people who do it. In inability to relate to people who are different from you, because you can’t see past the psychological screen of your own pain and insecurity. To need that so badly that you vent on random women on an anonymous comments page. Unfortunately that seems to describe a substantial number of the commenters here. Anyone with that kind of needy-ass psychological makeup, it’s not exactly surprising that you’re doing badly with women. Sorry, I’m not trying to make any personal attacks—I’m just disappointed because I don’t think this space is what I thought it was.
Also, realized “Return of Kings” is extremely poor content written probably by teenage ignoramuses. And Heartiste is disgustingly racist, though often funny. I think I’m done with the manosphere for now, folks. I needed to blow off some steam but I guess I’m done with the 2 minutes hate.
Someone should make a big “politically incorrect” site for men that’s written for grownups with educations, who are not members of the Ku Klux Klan.
I guess in that case I should say something I’ve wanted to, which is that I’m really grateful to Rollo Tomassi for this site. I’ve been really impressed by the quality of the content, and I love the whole logical structure of it. But specifically: your “War Brides” post helped me to understand something that no one, not me or a single one of my friends, or anything I’ve read about relationships anywhere, could help me to understand. It’s many years ago now, but I could never figure out why, when my first girl left me, she was borderline-obsessed with me for 5 years and then turned it off like a switch, whereas I was absolutely devastated. That post filled a huge gap in knowledge left by the entire rest of society. To me that’s a huge accomplishment.
@Glenn
But now? Is the purpose of life just to pursue pleasure? All this feels so empty. It’s not just me, right? And please, don’t proselytize to me, I’ve been quite religious at points in my life and quite consciously became an atheist – consider me the pickle that won’t become a cucumber again.
I’m interested in how you guys deal with the existential angst of shedding a traditionalist worldview?
When you say “please don’t proselytize to me,” I’m not sure what you mean—because everyone here has some worldview to sell.
In any case, I might be running afoul of that proscription, but I would say, as far as dealing with the existential angst of shedding a traditionalist worldview: don’t. Don’t shed it. It’s the right worldview.
It’s not just you. It does feel empty. It is empty. And nothing about being a man, or understanding “Red Pill” truths, requires you to decide otherwise. When you think to yourself, “it’s all a farce, it’s all about pleasure, etc.,” you’re not really proposing to actually accept those things. You are trying to shock yourself. Deep down inside, no one can truly believe that, no matter what they profess. Rather, the people who do will never come close to real happiness, so long as they do believe it. And they will tell you point blank that they don’t even believe in “real happiness.” That should tell you all you need to know. Personally any time I have decided to pursue mere pleasure I have gotten nothing out of it and regretted it. Your results may depend on whether you’re capable, whether you have the power, to do any better. That, I believe is the reason some people avow mere hedonism—they don’t have the discipline and the talent to do anything more valuable and interesting.
Speaking from experience—I guess my first reaction to my first big breakup was the exact same cynicism you seem to be toying with. But it was a brief return to adolescence, a phase of reaction. You’ve been disappointed, but your job is to restore faith. You’ve been hurt because you invested in something and you lost it. It’s tempting to react by saying, “I’ll never invest in anything again!! Then I’ll be safe!” But that’s an ultimately childish reaction. You’re going to remain listless until you decide to risk, to love, to commit again. Your life will remain on hold until you sack up and stop trying to protect yourself from ever being hurt again.
April 5th, 2015 at 7:14 am
@Pam
I have not read through everything, trying to take it all in as I am, and struggling to get to a proper understanding while struggling with the visceral reaction that comes from reading these posts while feeling lumped into the feminati that insist on man bashing they right off as activism or (worse) science…and I am wondering…does anyone know where to find a Red Pill woman for guidance?
Pam, I hope you at least get to my comment before leaving the site altogether. I wouldn’t blame you for not coming back here, which is depressing; but still there is a lot of value to be gotten out of RT’s posts, probably even for a woman.
There’s a reddit out there I’ve heard of called Red Pill Women. You should try to find that, might be a more hospitable place for you to talk frankly about things without having a bunch of insecure dudes on your case.
As an aside, ironically, one of the big intellectual vices revealed here in the way people talk about women who comment is a failure to grasp the individual as an individual, rather than bizarrely projecting your pet theories on them. Apparently this is a widespread issue these days, given the mind-numbing frequency on the Internet of hearing some version of “all men are like that,” “not all men are like that,” “all women are like that,” or “not all women are like that.”
It’s ironic, because of the incessant accusations of female “solipsism,” that so many men are unable to engage with women as actual individuals rather than test cases for their pet theories of why the world has wronged them—even as anonymous posters on a website!
Also, this has bothered me from the beginning, but the way the term “solipsism” is used in the manosphere is gratingly off the mark. Solipsism is an ontological thesis (“my mind is the only thing that exists”). In other words a solipsist is someone who believes that the world around them is a kind of mirage. In fact men are much more likely to be actual solipsists because they are much more likely to become so invested in abstract thought that they stop believing in anything else. What people are referring to is probably better described as narcissism or egoism.
April 5th, 2015 at 10:21 am
@Glenn
“But now? Is the purpose of life just to pursue pleasure? All this feels so empty. It’s not just me, right? And please, don’t proselytize to me, I’ve been quite religious at points in my life and quite consciously became an atheist – consider me the pickle that won’t become a cucumber again.
I’m interested in how you guys deal with the existential angst of shedding a traditionalist worldview?”
Reading what Lucien wrote reminds me of something that grounded me back in 1984 in a humanities seminar (an English class substitute). We read six books each semester and were tasked to provide an essay afterword. I don’t remember all the titles. The first half of the books were ones that challenged the existence of God and the other half embraced reasonable concepts of why it makes sense that all the million gods society believes in can have metaphysical justification. But it is not a binary proposition. Indifference or adherence to religion was not the point. It’s not the important point.
The standout book was “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Mantenance” by Robert Pirsig. The book was a journey on three levels and dealt with the Metaphysics of Quality. It is a truly remarkable book that challenges traditional philosophical concepts (so much so that it was initially rejected by 121 publishers and then went on to sell 5 million copies. The author explains that explains that, despite its title, “it should in no way be associated with that great body of factual information relating to orthodox Zen Buddhist practice. It’s not very factual on motorcycles, either.”
From a review here: http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/reviews/books/0-553-27747-2.html
“By traditional standards, this is more a popular philosophy book in structure than a serious philosophical treatise. The philosophy is introduced slowly and idiosyncratically, it is mixed in with memoir and biography, and it’s presented with deeply personal arguments rather than objective appeals. That, of course, is much of the point. Pirsig’s focus is on finding a way to integrate the holistic, subjective, emotional view we all have of the world, the knee-jerk reaction that drives our immediate reactions and intuitive satisfaction, with classic Western philosophy. The focus of that reconciliation is Quality, in the sense we mean when we describe an object as “high quality.” Slowly building his conception of Quality and linking it to both subjective artistic appreciation and suitability for purpose, he equates our concept of Quality with what others have called Zen, or Tao, or flow. From that, he builds an approach to unifying subjective and objective appreciations of quality.”
Pirsig proposes quality as the interaction between object and subject.
@ Pam
Another resource for you is Athol Kay’s work, commonly referred to as purple pill because of the inclusiveness of females into the advice for successful LTR’s (for the most part marriages). His books are excellent and resonate with a woman red pill reader.
For those of you who are new to the Manosphere and find it difficult to find the bloggers that resonate most with you (in light of Lucien’s distaste for the group-think at sites like ROK and Heartiste) a good way to get a good overview and decide where to pursue your tastes is Ian Ironwood’s ebook
“Manosphere: A New Hope for Masculinity”
This is the book’s description at Amazon:
“The Manosphere is a loose collection of blogs, books, and forums about men, male issues, and masculine interests. Covering areas of this vast “dirty snowball” like Pick Up Artists (PUAs) and Game, Traditional and Christian Conservatives, Wise Old Men, Puerarchs, Alpha Dads, Men’s Rights Activists, (MRAs), Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) and other facets of masculinity in a post-feminist world, Ironwood has designed this book to be a survey and introduction, not an exhaustive study. Find out why men aren’t getting married as much or as early. Find out what your daughter’s chances of finding a “good man” really are . . . and figure out what constitutes a “good man”.
Aimed squarely at feminism’s tropes and misandry, The Manosphere delves deeply into gender relations from the masculine side, and where it takes you may surprise you. Men today are struggling, searching, healing, and fighting . . . but they are more and more coming to the feminism-inspired conclusion that the time has come for them to pursue their interests as men, often independent of women or their interests.
Whether you’re pleased or outraged, this is the first look at a rapidly-developing and soon-to-be widely influential area of the internet blogosphere. Why is 50 Shades of Grey so popular, and what can married men do about it? Why is it so hard to find a good man? Why is it so hard to find a worthy woman? Why is 300 the greatest masculine film ever made, just ahead of Fight Club and Porky’s? And what does the future hold as more men leave the workforce, pursue fatherhood with passion, and look with skepticism on a culture that punishes and denigrates them on the basis of their gender.
The Men of the Manosphere aren’t Right Wing thugs or mindless trolls — they are seeking thoughtful answers to difficult problems. In the process, they are revalorizing masculinity itself, adapting it to a post-modern, post-industrial, post-feminist world. It’s not a world of equality, it’s a world of equilibrium. It’s not a world where men become better at serving women, but where men become better men. And it is not a world of sensitive new age guys talking about their feelings . . . it’s a world where sweat, respect, honor and fidelity are the coins of the realm. As more and more men, married, divorced and single, “take the Red Pill” and apply the knowledge of the Manosphere to their relationships, a wonderful thing is happening: men are growing strong, more secure in their masculinity . . . and less likely to capitulate to feminine whims on the basis of the feminine imperative.”
April 5th, 2015 at 10:45 am
@ midwestboi (fuck did I really type that?)
Can’t be mad at her, she is fulfilling her programming devoid of the capacity to even understand much less appreciate the abstract. (like our new little Pam I see).
Do you get mad at your dog or your cordless drill? Women are mindless creatures that require husbandry. You can take the job or not, up to you.
April 5th, 2015 at 12:20 pm
I am going through this right now. Had been separated a year after 22 years of marriage. The crazy making was too much and short story I left. Took the red pill and changed my view on women forever. She finally got into therapy for ptsd from her childhood, which initially bore fruit. I had a few girlfriends and had fun and decompressed. That is a whole story in and of itself. The wife finally got with one guy from work who was a mess of a man bigger than she *(law of attraction) and the relationship with new guy ran its course. While I was unattainable she put on the full court press, lost weight [divorce diet] , fucked me silly when we had sex. I actually did not know who this girl was anymore. She was excited to be cheating on her boyfriend with her husband. She thrived on the drama like I had never expected. It was a fucked up situation. I finally tell her if she wants to work on the marriage she has to put down the b.f. She initially protests but then relents after 4 months and agrees and the first week I am back [sort of] she shuts off the sex dynamo and starts playing games. What ensued was surreal. I told her if she acted like the old sexless wife then I was leaving immediately. I told her I would give her another few months to figure it all out. I have no problem picking up and getting with women so my threats were real. I have come to the conclusion that Taylor swifts song is spot on, unless they can torture a man they are not happy. Of course wife relents and says I can have sex anytime I want now but she will just “lay there”. More passive aggressive b.s. Right now I am just so worn out over the games I hate to think about a relationship it has taken too much time and effort to keep up with the hamster and the games they play. Dread works but why should I even have to go there. Our first night trying to have dinner her b.f is blowing up her phone and messenger non stop. I walk out half way through the dinner. We were all warned if you don’t want anymore sex, just get married. There are a *few* women who have a healthy sex drive, they are usually active athletic types who keep themselves in shape. At least that is my observation.
April 5th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Sun Wukong
“Dumping the other person is the ultimate DHV.”
@Pam: My guess is, you got the strongest feelings for that guy (in hindsight) because he did fuck around and also dumped you. The question why you couldn’t keep him is the wrong one. You wish you could have kept him because he was probably the only guy you couldn’t keep. I know my first gf is in a similar situation. The term for it in the manosphere is “alpha widow”, Rollo probably has some stuff on it.
The point is: Move on, try the next one. And since you got older you might have to accept, you might never get such strong feelings from any man you could make commit to you.
April 5th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
@Pam,
If you’re still reading I suggest you read these:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/16/blueprint-for-an-alpha-widow/
http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/13/generation-alpha-widow/
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/06/the-slut-paradox/
http://therationalmale.com/2013/05/20/hes-special/
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/04/five-minutes-of-alpha/
You are a textbook Alpha Widow. Dominant Alpha perception of your ex after his cheating on you. DHV for having rejected you. Likely you lost your V Card with him (Alpha imprinting strong), and no subsequent lover “can keep up with you”, ergo you pine over his impression on you.
You might also like Stingray’s blog:
https://verusconditio.wordpress.com/
Also:
http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/search?q=red+pill+women&sort=relevance&restrict_sr=on&t=all
April 5th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Mistakes that men make regarding women:
The biggest mistake most men make is looking into those big doe eyes, at that weaker frame, at that child like voice and then telling themselves they’re loved for who they are.
The second biggest mistake men make is genuflecting on bended knee, with sword drawn, to protect that which would gladly destroy him for positive economic gain.
The third biggest mistake men make is in thinking they’re more cunning and calculating than women. Men deeply underestimate the callousness and glee with which women will destroy men’s lives for profit and/or entertainment.
April 5th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Tilikum – “Do you get mad at your dog or your cordless drill?”
Yes to both. Anger is a part of training of training dogs. I am genuinely angry when the dog eats my shoes for the third time. Untrainable dogs go to the pound.
Yes I get angry at my cordless drill. It’s less about the drill than failing to live up to the claims made by the manufacturer. And if the product fails to function it gets tossed/recycled/replaced.
April 5th, 2015 at 3:00 pm
@Tilikum, badpainter
Anger is the distance between your ideal expectations of reality, and actual reality itself as you experience it. The further apart the two are, the more you will find yourself angry with things. This means pretty much everyone has gotten mad at their dog or their cordless drill or their car or their girlfriend at some point unless they simply have no desire to improve the world around them.
Part of the reason TRP can bring more of an attitude of Stoicism is bringing those expectations in line with actual reality. Once you’ve done that, anger is reduced to a controllable level or even in some cases eliminated.
April 5th, 2015 at 3:29 pm
@Lucien
On both your post well said and I agree as well on observation. It would be more beneficial to meet in person and discuss this to avoid a screen as a buffer. Which turns the intention on itself. It may sound good but other people can be whoever they want to be online. It’s in part why honor is essential least in person. What i find sad is that the anger and rage from anyone hear is a buffer. I may well be making a generalized statement but if you can speak to someone that way in person you find less reason to need a computer screen any screen for that matter. For example if I am insecure about talking about how maybe I am not a good human being and maybe I suck with women because I haven’t changed certain passed behaviors? It’s about my insecurity a and when someone brings those up openly it’s not something I am comfortable with. They way I go about dealing with that is who I am. It’s a grow process. It’s important to be put in uncomfortable places to learn why about yourself. Or myself one thing I noticed is people drinking while posting stuff. That may cover the immature approach. Can alcohol be used as a buffer? Does anyone need it when dealing with uncomfortable places?
You bring up good points brother please stay and help out don’t leave just yet?
April 5th, 2015 at 3:34 pm
This girl I used to have ONE-itis for, and shut me down, had a sap for a boyfriend. At least he was for a while. She would only ever say negative things about him and seemed like she did nothing but henpeck him about getting a better job. She would always complain to me about her boyfriend even though she knew I was interested in her — wasn’t aware that I was friendzoning myself.
But anyway, friendzoning aside, she never did anything but bitch about him and his lack of ambition, etc. He would say he was struggling with depression, which she was too, but she never empathized with that, and only held everything against him while she continued to have at least as bad, or worse, lifestyle choices than he did as far as career and everything else goes.
He dumped her and started dating a girl 10 years younger than her, and got her pregnant within the first month. It’s been a long time since all this happened, but last I heard she was still heartbroken over him and was never able to get over him. Alpha widow to the max. Every once in a while she’ll post something on FB hinting at him, like those memes about moving beyond people that suck, letting go of the past, etc., along with the occasional thing about Strong Independent Women who don’t need men, etc., and some princess memes once in a while (women are princesses and men who can recognize that are the REAL men, etc.).
Might’ve been a chump when he was with her, but dumping her for a younger, prettier girl was a major DHV.
I’ve probably witnessed stuff like this before, but I just never paid any attention pre-Red Pill. Now it’s all so clear, I can see these things coming from a mile away.
I thought that was so funny though. She claims no responsibility for him leaving, and said if he wasn’t happy, he should’ve said something. Far as I could tell she treated him like shit and did nothing but put him down and henpeck him, and when some younger pussy came along, he jumped ship and never looked back.
It just didn’t hit me that a girl could be an Alpha widow from a Beta boyfriend breakup, if that breakup was done in a devastatingly Alpha way, e.g. dumping your girlfriend or wife for a much younger, prettier, higher SMV girl. That is a kick in the tits if there ever was one.
April 5th, 2015 at 3:41 pm
@ Sun and Badpainter,
Your comments reek of deep FI socialization. Build a better world….wut?
This ain’t an island and you ain’t Robinson Crusoe. The world has been built and lost. It ain’t any “red pill stoicism” its dealing with objective and observable reality.
Your world is lost (the one you are romanticizing), I’d suggest adapting to the one you live in.
April 5th, 2015 at 3:46 pm
@Tilikum
Think you missed the point of what I was saying. Completely.
Try comprehension again with less condescension.
April 5th, 2015 at 4:50 pm
Happy Easter all!
The primary purpose for my comment was to mention that I enjoyed reading Preventive Medicine and listening to the interview.
After skimming through comments, I wonder if I said: “Geez, none of my teams are in the NCAA finals.” And what I really meant was: “Geez, none of my teams are in the NCAA finals.” Whether somehow it would be interpreted: “Here’s another feminist trying to invade our exclusive male space [because women are prohibited here] by asserting that she can relate to men by appealing to men and trying to seem like one of the guys by mentioning basketball. Here she comes trying to make herself seem like a high quality woman because she was probably watching games this weekend, which means she had teams in the final four, which certainly means she thinks highly of herself for picking teams that made it to the final four. She thinks she therefore deserves snowflake status.” What I wouldn’t feel necessary to point out: I enjoy and play several sports, and basketball happens to be one of them. Not that I think that should or does matter.
Although there’s a lot of truth on effect of women entering male spaces, there are distinctions here that I’ll overlook. I’ll also skip detailing the mile high pile o’irony that several men here have made similar/exact and much more crass comments than I have to depict exactly what I have, yet no one felt the need to challenge those comments or fire back with unnecessary and uninformed personal insults–some even endorsed. Using my comments for target practice probably isn’t a good use of anyone’s time, but I also recognize the level of manipulation from women some have experienced.
A comment about dating a guy who is effectively 0, arguably averaging out to 4.5 at best, is high value???
I apologize for the brevity of my explanation and my failure to point out that before we officially broke up, in my efforts to understand why he’d invade my privacy in that way, I discovered that he was racist and had a tendency to be less-than-honest on too many occasions for my comfort level. Those seemed tangential to my original purpose of identifying a specific example of low value behavior.
Furthermore, invasion of privacy is impermissible under law. That’s behavior I do not, have not, nor would ever condone in any context.
Low value behavior is exactly what it is: low value behavior. Some people condone it, and others don’t. From my perspective, there’s nothing to ponder or figure out or discuss when people, in that manner, invade another’s privacy. I tried to make sure I understood correctly what happened, he confirmed it. Likewise, I also know when to apologize and I pretty much hold no animosity against people. But I also know when to run, and I don’t linger or play self-deprecating revenge games. I exit.
Invasion of privacy is unlawful.
In addition, male attention is not something I seek, and in the unlikely event that I felt the need to seek male attention, a blog I enjoy reading would not be the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth…place I’d go. And if that were somehow my strategy, I’d take a different approach rather than extremely infrequent commenting, and attempting to point out some of the valuable lessons I’ve learned from some of the great posts and bloggers/commenters I’ve come across. [The BPD/passive-aggressive/fatal attraction trolling approach, or use of sexual innuendos seem more effective from what I observe.]
To reiterate: The purpose of my initial comment was to respond to reading Preventive Medicine, and that I enjoyed the interview.
My second paragraph vs the final one? People have limits of what they want to deal with in relationships. My approach is generally to ask questions rather than make assumptions, and as offended and violated as I felt, I talked to him about it bc I cared about him. I recognize that people, men vs women, will approach situations differently, but that’s my approach.
The purpose of my initial comment was to say I enjoyed the book and interview.
My tone is not of snark or intentional insensitivity, but maybe more of indifference. [No, I haven’t vetted this comment to remove all unimaginable forms of insensitivity.]
The purpose of my initial comment was to say I enjoyed the book and interview.
I hope everyone enjoys what’s left of their weekend!
April 5th, 2015 at 5:46 pm
@rugby11ljh
Haha totally man. Honestly it’s depressing but I don’t actually know anyone who fully embraces this whole worldview in real life, although I have a few friends who I’ve tested the waters with, with positive results. I like trying to talk through this stuff with other people who are struggling with it, because in the real world it’s practically against the law to be honest about what ails us.
That said, I really need to stop procrastinating…hehe.
April 5th, 2015 at 7:17 pm
@Glenn
“But now? Is the purpose of life just to pursue pleasure? All this feels so empty. It’s not just me, right? And please, don’t proselytize to me, I’ve been quite religious at points in my life and quite consciously became an atheist – consider me the pickle that won’t become a cucumber again.
I’m interested in how you guys deal with the existential angst of shedding a traditionalist worldview?”
I’m going through this angst now. In the comments a few posts ago I alluded to the same thing when I was asking about a man’s mission. There is something about hitting 50 that triggers this gnawing feeling that something is missing and time’s running out. Hobbes earlier said this angst was anger or grief at loss; and it is, but it’s more than that. The loss is that you have no purpose anymore; but anger is backward looking, no purpose is forward looking. Couple this with the living hell that divorce with kids has become and there is this giant emptiness in your soul.
I think this is the result of the blue bill bullshit we’ve been fed our whole lives. We’re taught and we internalize that we exist to serve, to build, to produce, to “take care” of things, etc. etc. When you’ve been there, done that, what then? We never thought it through to the end. Then the magic 5-0 hits and you’re like wtf? Everyone says work on yourself, and that’s great advice if you’re in your twenties, but work on myself to what end?
I sat down, pen and paper in hand, to make a list of things I wanted to do. The list was so short I gave up.
I was golfing in LA with men that own businesses similar to mine. All millionaires, all self made men. I brought up this issue and 2 of the 3 were experiencing the same thing. One guy turned his business over to his kids and mentoring people inside and outside of his company. The other guy was building a Christian orphanage/mission in Thailand.
The good news is that I was feeling this before my wife checked out; hell this was probably the reason she checked out. The bad news is starting a mission is not for me. We’ll just have to keep looking until we fill the giant emptiness.
Best Wishes
April 5th, 2015 at 7:45 pm
The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine (Volume 2)
is not a re-hash of the blog.
It’s filled with new material.
From Interview Two:
http://therationalmale.com/2015/04/05/interview-two/
ROLLO TOMASSI: So, there’s an epiphany… I believe, that happens for women, where they, sort of, get right with themselves.
If they were religious they get right with God and they want to live their lives the correct way, so all of the freebies they were giving away to the Alpha guys – They find a beta and they make him wait and they make him perform and they evaluate him and they see if he’s got potential…
CHRISTIAN MCQUEEN: “Heheh, you’re preaching right now, that’s so true!
ROLLO TOMASSI: …A whole laundry list of prerequisites for this guy to get at what essentially ends up being a mitigated sexual response, or a mitigated desire that she had no problem with when she was in her party phases.
So, that’s the epiphany, they come to terms with the fact that – internally, psychologically – they come to terms with the fact that the party is closing and ‘I gotta cash out my chips before the party closes’
April 5th, 2015 at 9:46 pm
You don’t always have to get older to feel the void of meaninglessness. Pursuing pleasure is one thing, and the emptiness of that, but not even being able to have pleasure is another.
I basically have no friends anymore, I spend 99% of my time outside of work in complete isolation, I have absolutely zero sex life, I work a shitty job with a fuckwit for a boss, and I have to expend most of my energy at work keeping myself from punching him in the face or throwing a 2×4 at his bald little bowling ball of a head.
Now I mention this for a reason: when you’re in a situation like I’m in, and have been in it for literally years on end, the basic things in life feel way more fulfilling and satisfying. Any time I’d get to spend in the presence of other people that I actually clicked with was like a complete breath of fresh air after almost drowning in a river.
Having no sex or really any relations with women at all is horrible enough, but throw on top of that having no close male friends, and it’s like, what the fuck is even the point of being alive. Somehow I’ve managed to make it through so far — at least, I’m still here.
But then again a lot of people when they get very old, that’s when all their friends die and there’s all the isolation and everything else. So a part of me is trying to learn from this because as awful as it is I feel like I’m going to have to face it eventually anyway, assuming I even live that long, which honestly I don’t feel like I’d ever want to, but anyway, might as well have to learn to deal with it now. Seeing my grandparents go through hell, as well as an old Polish woman with dementia who lives near me that I visited but never knew anything about — all she’d ever say is “my family die, my husband die, my daughter die, I’m alone, alone, alone,” it was like a broken record.
I visited her because I felt bad for her, my company really seemed to pick her up, and I also felt like it was helping me face my own mortality. That was scary as hell in a lot of ways. She was probably in her 80’s. I think she did have sons that would periodically stop by to take care of her but I never met them and it was obvious her memory had deteriorated significantly.
One time I ate an entire cake and like 3 hot dogs. She wouldn’t stop feeding me. I told her I was very full but she spoke almost no English, and after I’d finish a piece of cake she’d completely forget that she gave it to me, see the empty plate on the table, and cut me another piece no matter how many times I said “no” or “I’m not full.”
She also flipped the TV to a softcore porn station and looked at me and winked and raised her eyebrows. That was actually really funny. I was probably 19 or so at the time and my guess was she was about 82. Aye.
Anyway, my point is, I personally don’t see any emptiness in casual sex. No, I didn’t fuck the old lady. Let me start over here….
To someone who can’t even get casual sex, casual sex (with reasonably aged women) is a very, very big deal. Same with having friends to hang out with. I feel like even working this total slump of a dead-end job would be infinitely more tolerable if the rest of my life wasn’t so void of human contact, male and female alike.
As far as dealing with the existential angst goes, I always refer to Zen. The Gateless Gate is one of my favorite books, and I highly recommend it.
The “void” is reality itself. A big concept in Zen is that everything has two natures: the phenomenal, which we perceive with our senses, and the essential, which has no form.
Hence you get koans like, “What did your face look like before your mother and father were born?”
All the major religions get into this. At the heart of Christianity, more in line with the Dead Sea Scrolls, is the same idea in Zen: “eternal life” in Christianity (as I see Christianity, not as it’s taught) is the same as eternal life in Zen, which is simply the realization that there is no distinction between life and death.
I don’t want to go off on a huge tangent, so I’ll leave it at that, but meditating on that a lot, especially as I’ve had to deal with death of people I love and losing close friends, has helped me a lot during a time where, when I was younger, I’d just have a nervous breakdown.
So yes…I’m an odd duck, but The Gateless Gate is definitely one of my favorites. Zen just ‘clicks’ with me, and I have no idea why, because no one turned me onto it. I just started reading about it during a time I was reading about all different religions and it just stuck out — it felt right. Although I also felt that way about Christianity, though I was a fan of odd ducks such as F.W. Robertson and Richard Wurmbrand, my two favorite Christian authors by far. I don’t know anyone else in person but me who’s heard of them —
— except for a Romanian guy I used to work with. Wurmbrand was Romanian and apparently was pretty famous as he lived through the persecution at the hands of the Bolsheviks when they took over, and instated brainwashing torture prisons like the infamous one at Pitesti.
All right…I’m getting WAY out there now, but am I really?
After all, a lot of the idealization of women, and the want for things to be different, revolves around the idealization of our lives themselves — we want to be happy, peaceful, and have homeostasis. When life doesn’t ‘follow the rules’ and we feel like we’re living in a story that has a tragic ending, it can get pretty overwhelming to deal with, because it feels like life isn’t supposed to be like this. When things are really fucked up it’s very hard to not think that it “shouldn’t be happening.”
So feminism has done this and that. And it is a very sad state of affairs we’re living in. They’re corrupt times. I even remember when I was a kid, the social situation wasn’t as bad as it is now with all the technology people are glued to. That wasn’t around when I was a kid, and I’m young. This is all very new.
But it is what it is. There is nothing I can do to go back in time and have a more normal upbringing instead of basically being left in isolation for most of my life. I can’t go back and have sex in my teens and early 20’s. It’s all gone.
Now I can change what I’m doing. I’m taking steps. In my situation I feel like I’m lost at sea, and feeling completely isolated it feels next to impossible to pull myself out of this mess. But at least with RM I’ve learned a lot, and it’s true that over the past year, I’ve overcome ONE-itis and a lot of other ills, and my acceptance of how women really are has affected my life VERY DEEPLY, and probably way more deeply than I realize right now.
I’m so far ahead of where I was with all that a year or two ago, or whenever it was I started reading here. The changes have been very deep. Reading RM every day — the repetition — probably has had a lot to do with drilling this stuff into my head. And I do feel better for it.
Anyway I’m sick and that’s probably one reason my head is buzzing around so much right now. Although hopefully some of this could make some sense to someone here. There were some points I was trying to make more clearly but for now this is the best I can come up with to contribute.
April 5th, 2015 at 10:14 pm
> The ship is going down, and I’ve only got three life jackets. Who am I going to give them to? John, you learned to swim a long time ago, right?
Easy. The man takes the life jackets from the woman by force and lets her drown. He puts one jacket on and puts the other two on his kids.
He does this out of compassion and love for his kids. In a life or death situation the woman is useless, but the man is absolutely necessary for the kids survival in the ocean. He can not be allowed to drown, because he got no life jacket.
Who else is going to hold the children’s heads above water and paddle them to safety? The tiny-armed woman?
April 5th, 2015 at 11:38 pm
@Atticus
The answer is to develop and work on interesting projects. I use projects, instead of stuff or hobbies or things, to represent something that will take a lot of time and hard work to accomplish significant and substantial outcomes. I think “building a Christian orphanage/mission” is an example project. It might fail, it might take too long, but it certainly will give meaning to one’s life. And when one project is almost done, then start other. Of course women are just secondary, and primary focus is on the important.
April 5th, 2015 at 11:55 pm
@johnnightwrites
Your comment is true and sad and it brought this movie to mind
Abandon Ship 1957 Tyrone Power.
April 6th, 2015 at 12:12 am
@softek @Emily L @lucien
Hey you folks especially Emily keep your head up. This screen is a buffer you three are not and I learned a hell of a lot from all three of you today.
April 6th, 2015 at 8:18 am
Great article. Once again, much like the burden to perform article, it’s always on the man to “deal with it”. Women are required to do nothing more. Men have to be the patient, understanding, unemotional, non-moody, rational sex. Along with breadwinner, and when you have time clean and cook because women are too “stressed or busy”. In the end I understand them thankfully to people like Rollo, but as he says it doesn’t make the truth hurt any less.
April 6th, 2015 at 11:05 am
Craiger – “Once again, much like the burden to perform article, it’s always on the man to ‘deal with it’. Women are required to do nothing more.”
You do realize neither you nor any other man is actually required to “do” anything, or “deal” with anything. Yes there is an social expectation men will show up and make things right. But there is no actual obligation on any man to perform if he is willing to suffer/ignore the consequences. And ultimately those consequences require men to enforce. Only by threat of violence can the mass of men be coerced to doing anything they don’t want to do.
The whole burden of performance is in some ways a ruse. The misunderstanding is in believing the burden is on each of us to perform for others. Really the burden is on each of us to perform for ourselves, and be our own evaluators.
Every time I face an external judgement the first thing I do is judge the competence of the evaluator. Most of the time the evaluators are barely fit to offer praise let alone criticism. And every evaluation is ultimately a projection of the evaluator’s wants and petty needs for ego. The evaluation usually tell you more about the others weaknesses than your own.
April 6th, 2015 at 2:19 pm
@Seraph and others talking about “5 minute pump”: that’s on you, dude. Learn to be a better lover and last as long as you want to.
Bang her for 90 minutes, or until you feel like making yourself cum — after she sees that you can do that (last for 40 minutes). If you have a woman letting you have sex with her, that’s a major accomplishment that many men do not have. So take advantage of it!
If you have a woman letting you have sex with her and you do a “5 minute pump,” that’s a failure on your part.
This is something I only truly learned to appreciate very recently, now that I finally have a regular fuck buddy, after a 16 month dry spell after losing last LTR. I thought the sex in the LTR (the one that ended) was good, and I thought I was pretty good, and she would get off at least once probably 90% of the time, and I would last a long time, but with my new girl I have taken it to another level.
Remember one of CH’s 16 rules — one of them is “fuck her good” and leave her a sweaty mass of spent, appreciative flesh.
I only FINALLY learned that they really do want to be “fucked hard” a lot of the time. I have always held back, even with the last one, feeling like I don’t want to hurt her. I’m not huge but I’m not small either.
If you are doing a “5 minute pump,” then that’s your poor skill, and no, it has nothing to do with her not being enthusiastic. You can make her be enthusiastic.
Now that I’m older, and especially with a condom, I can last as long as I want, literally — and I have to concentrate and start banging her hard and try to get off, when it’s time to do that. I do that only after banging her for 40, 50 minutes, until I’m physically tired or feel she has earned me finishing after taking it for 40 minutes, or because I have to go to work, if it’s in the morning.
You can learn how to do that. If you are out of shape, start lifting weights-that’s step one.
Guess what? She CANNOT avoid getting turned on and noticing and feeling it and getting off, if you can do that. Even if she is a starfish and just lays there–get creative, dude. She will have no choice but to respond physically if you can turn your 5 minute pump into a 50 minute pump.
You can make her enjoy it if you can last for 30 minutes. I’m talking staying fully hard too. Next time you do your “5 minute pump,” your wife will take notice if you put her legs over your shoulders and last 40 minutes instead, I promise you that.
And not to give away too many secrets, but learn to make her feel like you want to devour her, even if she’s gained a few pounds and you are not fully turned on by her like if she was a 24 year old supermodel. Fake it. Just was women sometimes need to “fake it” to be good lovers, why shouldn’t men? Start out with a massage (you massage her), get some good smelling oil, get yourself turned on by it, breath into her ear, eventually roll her over. It should be “on” by then. You will learn to associate the scent of the oil with a good time. Improve your performance.
You have a woman who you are allowed to have sex with? Own that experience, bro.
April 6th, 2015 at 9:38 pm
Since we are at the end of commenting and not that many are likely still reading this, and this is about wives, here’s the lyrics to the latest hit of Meghan Trainor, “Dear future husband”
First her video has been getting hit:
“In her latest music video, she portrays a dutiful housewife who cooks and cleans while demanding to be bought diamond rings and called beautiful.
And nearly a month after releasing her fifties inspired Dear Future Husband video, Meghan Trainor expressed her shocked reaction to controversial claims that the visual images from her track are antifeminist.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3027562/Meghan-Trainor-reveals-did-not-expect-antifeminism-backlash-Dear-Future-Husband-music-video.html
It is not surprised she is shocked, since the lyrics are FI.
Some highlights:
It ends with a threat:
“Future husband, better love me right”
(the love of a woman)
She ignores all males she has previously slept with or will be sleeping with: “if you wanna be My one and only all my life”
The road to a man’s heart is, well, not food:
“don’t be thinking I’ll be home and baking apple pies
I never learned to cook”
If the husband wants sex then:
“If you wanna get that special lovin’
Tell me I’m beautiful each and every night”
okay, easy enough right. Oh wait, there’s more:
“After every fight
Just apologize
And maybe then I’ll let you try and rock my body right”
maybe and maybe not, and she’ll let him try
what about intimacy:
“Open doors for me and you might get some kisses”
the husband might or might not get kisses if he grovels
and how will she behave:
“You gotta know how to treat me like a lady
Even when I’m acting crazy”
In case you haven’t puked yet, here’s the full lyrics:
Dear future husband,
Here’s a few things
You’ll need to know if you wanna be
My one and only all my life
Take me on a date
I deserve it, babe
And don’t forget the flowers every anniversary
‘Cause if you’ll treat me right
I’ll be the perfect wife
Buying groceries
Buy-buying what you need
You got that 9 to 5
But, baby, so do I
So don’t be thinking I’ll be home and baking apple pies
I never learned to cook
But I can write a hook
Sing along with me
Sing-sing along with me (hey)
You gotta know how to treat me like a lady
Even when I’m acting crazy
Tell me everything’s alright
Dear future husband,
Here’s a few things you’ll need to know if you wanna be
My one and only all my life
Dear future husband,
If you wanna get that special lovin’
Tell me I’m beautiful each and every night
After every fight
Just apologize
And maybe then I’ll let you try and rock my body right
Even if I was wrong
You know I’m never wrong
Why disagree?
Why, why disagree?
You gotta know how to treat me like a lady
Even when I’m acting crazy
Tell me everything’s alright
Dear future husband,
Here’s a few things
You’ll need to know if you wanna be
My one and only all my life (hey, baby)
Dear future husband,
Make time for me
Don’t leave me lonely
And know we’ll never see your family more than mine
I’ll be sleeping on the left side of the bed (hey)
Open doors for me and you might get some kisses
Don’t have a dirty mind
Just be a classy guy
Buy me a ring
Buy-buy me a ring, (babe)
You gotta know how to treat me like a lady
Even when I’m acting crazy
Tell me everything’s alright
Dear future husband,
Here’s a few things
You’ll need to know if you wanna be
My one and only all my life
Dear future husband,
If you wanna get that special loving
Tell me I’m beautiful each and every night
Future husband, better love me right
April 7th, 2015 at 8:23 am
While the regular commentators have given MWB excellent advice I would like to recommend a some what different line of attack
Take the bitch back in a few days and use her to;
Learn about women and how they operate by contuining to read here, asking questions and observing the woman
Practice his pimp hand and grudge fucking skills. Make all the decisions, tease, neg etc, make her ask permission to cum, tell her she is your property etc
Acquire a second plate to spin
And what not.
I reckon such women aren’t much good for anything but practice, experimenting and smoothing out a young man’s learning curve.
Absolutely distances himself emotionally, financially etc but start thinking about what value you can get out of her so you do not fuck shit up so much the next time around
April 7th, 2015 at 9:39 am
@anonymous
Good post that seems to be a key part in being in a relationship. Especially self image.
Found this
http://www.fitness.com/articles/1019/the_top_3_ways_exercise_boosts_your_sex_drive.php
Hitting gym again two things I can change fashion and fitness.
April 7th, 2015 at 10:07 am
@ Anonymous
I appreciate the response.
“@Seraph and others talking about “5 minute pump”: that’s on you, dude. Learn to be a better lover and last as long as you want to.”
I was talking about my wive’s friends, i.e., as bad as I have it, they sound like they are in worse position.
Bang her for 90 minutes, or until you feel like making yourself cum — after she sees that you can do that (last for 40 minutes). If you have a woman letting you have sex with her, that’s a major accomplishment that many men do not have. So take advantage of it!
My wife starts getting sore within a couple of minutes. She complains when I put her legs this way or that. Does she try different positions, yes. Is she going to lay/sit/crouch there for even 45 minutes in any of them?
I don’t think so.
I only FINALLY learned that they really do want to be “fucked hard” a lot of the time. I have always held back, even with the last one, feeling like I don’t want to hurt her. I’m not huge but I’m not small either.
If you are doing a “5 minute pump,” then that’s your poor skill, and no, it has nothing to do with her not being enthusiastic. You can make her be enthusiastic.
How? Simply getting in awesome shape?
Ok. I should be doing that anyway, but here’s my existential issue.
Guess what? She CANNOT avoid getting turned on and noticing and feeling it and getting off, if you can do that. Even if she is a starfish and just lays there–get creative, dude.
If I get in such good physical shape that she responds the way you think she will, then other women should also, right? They started to the last time I dropped 20 pounds.
Well, at this point, other women are looking really good right now. In other words, despite my previous moral beliefs, despite my obligations, despite any potential damage, I really would like to fuck other women, preferably those with more enthusiasm.
She will have no choice but to respond physically if you can turn your 5 minute pump into a 50 minute pump.
Again, I could last that long I think, especially if I had a partner who was into it. Issue is, my wife is going to be caterwauling in pain 20 minutes in, if not sooner. My wife is not the “fuck me harder” type. Never has been.
I just don’t think she is as into intercourse (she loves oral, and I am good at it), and at this point, I am not as much into it with her.
Look, bottom line, you are right. I need to get myself into shape, from reasons ranging to my own health, to instilling dread.
I am just not so sure I am going to get the response I am looking for.
Thanks for your input.
(I WISH that’s what she said…get it?0
April 7th, 2015 at 10:17 am
Hey folks check out these two interesting articles
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/06/new-york-woman-divorce-papers-facebook-message
http://mobile.philly.com/news/nation_world/?wss=/philly/news/nation_world&id=298845271&
April 7th, 2015 at 10:23 am
@SFC Ton
While in some respects I agree with you, I think the only reason that’s not necessarily a great idea in a position like his is pretty simple: he’s already emotionally invested in her. While he’s got some anger right now, the temptation to backslide will be high. With freshly unplugged guys exiting from a relationship they’re already heavily invested in, the best idea is almost always to have a clean break.
It would be awesome if a dude could use the chick that tipped him off to reality as a fucktoy and test bed, but I just don’t think it’s emotionally realistic for most guys.
April 7th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
Hey guys. Writing at lunch
I broke it off with her. She went from being meak at first to a complete raving lunatic. She called me names. Told me I a had a small dick, all the Asian stereotypes. Ugly. Ugly. Ugly…. And yes I am average I think. She told me about the hot guys that want her, the lies about all these guys she called friends. She probably slept with at least one of them. OMG!!!!! She was foaming. I stayed calm and told her to leave. That was all.
You guys saved me from a horrible decision.
Any guy like me ( very low beta) should make sure they wake up. If she talks about other men. Red flag. Exes all around. Red flag. Sexy messages on FB. Huge red flag. Lying about her relations to other men. Enormous red flag. I am so amazed I never questioned these actions before.
I don’t need a untrustworthy liar. I am just maturing. Still young. Another 10 years to reach my peak. I am scared of not having sex and companionship, but I feel so much better alone. Nobody to act like a bossy angry pest at my apartment. I’m a good person. I deserve to be cared for by someone kind, sweet, and feminine. Just my quiet walls now. I like it.
I don’t think I can be a player, but I’m reading Rollo’s books. I’m thinking. I’m changing.
Again. I will never allow a woman to disrespect my dignity again.
April 7th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
@Will: Let me go all Socratic and ask you a few questions:
-Do you think a man’s value stays the same through his life?
-Does a woman’s perception of a man’s value change over time?
-Can you describe a few of the factors in Marriage that lowers a man’s value?
-Do you appreciate how the simple act of marrying (which you promote for “High Value” men) IMMEDIATELY lowers the man’s value?
-Do you appreciate how over time the institution of marriage merged with yougogiiiirl culture and the Bluepill conditioning of the feminine imperative inevitably lowers a man’s actual SMV by a HUGE amount?
-Do you appreciate how the act of marrying and the institution of Marriage 2.0 empowers women, disempowers men, and lowers a man’s actual SMV even more?
-Do you appreciate how the act and institution of marriage lowers the wife’s perception of her husbands SMV even MORE than that?
April 7th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
At what point does the high SMV husband become not so high SMV?
April 7th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
I’m reading all of Rollo’s articles.
I have ordered both books. Sorry for the mistake.
Thank you Rollo.
April 7th, 2015 at 1:21 pm
Any time.
April 7th, 2015 at 1:59 pm
@Bluepillprofessor
April 7th, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Completely legit point Sun, and of course my suggestion isn’t worth a fuck if he cannot detach himself. Though that is a skill that can be practiced and improved on.
Good job MWB! & damn straight never let they affect your dignity. And half the chicks out there say you have a small dick when they are pissed AND even if you do have a small dick, who the fuck cares? Your dick is there to make you happy, not her
April 7th, 2015 at 8:05 pm
@SFC Ton
Your dick is there to make you happy, not her
That part reminds me of Rollo talking about males having their hands down at birth.