About two weeks ago I came across the above video (h/t Tom Leykis), but only recently have I watch it in its entirety. At first I’d thought it was yet another endorsement of the “expatriate and find a feminine wife” set of the manosphere, but it’s a much deeper documentary than this.
Although this video is directed towards the African-American demographic, what these men and women describe is reflective of the greater endemic that feminine social primacy has wrought in society on whole. Overall I think the video illustrates some strong points in regard to the reality of the imbalanced dynamic between men and women today, but it doesn’t really account very well for the causes of these imbalances.
The overarching narrative comes from the mistaken idea that egalitarian equalism is an achievable ideal between the sexes. So within this context when a man describes his need to be the leader in his family, to be the provider as well as the teacher of his children and the person with the answers in his marriage, his characterization becomes (conveniently) one of an outdated masculine insecurity.
In an equalist ideal state it shouldn’t matter to him that his wife is more educated or earns more money than he does. As Sheryl Sandberg has once again illustrated, men should be reprogrammed to feel more comfortable in traditionally women’s supportive and submissive roles – and any discomfort with that is evidence of an antiquated masculine insecurity or “feeling intimidated” by a Strong Woman®.
I covered this reprogramming effort in Vulnerability:
The Masks the Feminine Imperative Makes Men Wear
To explain this second problem it’s important to grasp how men are expected to define their own masculine identities within a social order where the only correct definition of masculinity is prepared for men in a feminine-primary context.
What I mean by this is that the humanness that men wish to express in showing themselves as vulnerable is defined by feminine-primacy.
For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.
Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.
So within this context a man is already hamstrung for ever expressing the idea that he feels he needs to be the Man in his marriage. That ridiculous need shouldn’t matter to men because in an equalist framework it shouldn’t matter to women that he’s not out-earning her or is more educated.
Of course the problem with this fantasy is that it does actually matter to women that a man leads and a man performs. Women resent supporting men. No matter how an equalist mindset sells it, humans evolved for a complementarity that will always confound equalism.
Pay close attention to the sentiments of the women in this video. Every one of them embraces the empowerment meme that equalism has them internalize, yet all still feel that pairing with a man they deem less than themselves is a compromise or “settling” for him. They’re doing him the favor by compromising their Hypergamy with a suboptimal man.
What this illustrates is the inherent conflict between equalism and complementarity. In spite of men’s reprogramming for accepting a “supportive” role, and despite women’s empowered aspirations of self-sufficiency, both still have an innate need for a gender-complementary relationship that they cannot reconcile in an equalist social framework. Women still want to pair with a man they can be aroused by and respect. They still want that +1 to +2 SMV differential that promotes a strong attachment to him. Men, in contradiction to all known risks and in contradiction to any expectation of appreciation, still want to pair with a feminine woman who idealistically supports him, follows his lead and willingly nurtures him with her body and spirit.
What this equalist vs. complementarity dichotomy presents to men and women is that it fundamentally places both sexes into the Subdominant model of intersexual hierarchies. In that model the man is perceived as another dependent ‘child’ for her to support while he wonders why the supportiveness his equalist conditioning has taught him women need isn’t appreciated for what it is. Not only this, but again within that framework, a woman feels indignant for having to apologize for the ambition and education that equalism has convinced her she should be empowered by and men should appreciate by default.
Love Interests
Within this egalitarian framework the difference between men’s idealistic concept of love and women’s opportunistic (Hypergamy based) concept of love are placed into distinct contrasts. For all of the obfuscation about imbalances in education, a man’s idealistic concept of love predisposes him to believe the equalist lie that his performance shouldn’t be the basis of her opportunistic concept of love.
When you listen to the sentiments of both the men and particularly the women in this video you’ll see this played out. When a woman assumes the dominant role in a relationship her provisioning becomes the benchmark for that dominance. Of course, this is a reversal of the conventional, complimentarian model, but when women are put into that reversal the reality of their opportunistic concept of love becomes uncomfortably obvious to love-idealist men. While Open Hypergamy is becoming increasingly more obvious on a social scale, it’s far more poignant on a personal, in-your-face scale within a modern marriage or relationship.
Predictably the documentary veers away from this intergender conflict and places the blame for that conflict squarely on the shoulders of characteristically irresponsible men not being the fathers they should be – blaming an individualist mindset for men’s absence from the family without addressing the glaring individualism the women display in the first half of the video. The equalist narrative has to be reset and in order to do that it’s got to conveniently dip back into the conventional complementarity well and appeal to the traditional sense of duty to family and compliance with exactly the responsibility equalism would otherwise chafe against.
However, what equalism and the Feminine Imperative can’t sweep away is men’s overt contingencies for Open Hypergamy. One of those very deductive contingencies is moving to another country where the environment favors men’s sexual strategy, not to mention a refreshing sense of being appreciated by conventionally feminine women. If Game isn’t appealing and going your own way makes you lonely, it only makes sense to go fish where the fish are.
I recently read Bachelor Nation on CNS News, and once again it predictably foists the responsibility for men’s reluctancy to marry on irresponsible ‘kidult’ men.
“Far too many young men have failed to make a normal progression into adult roles of responsibility and self-sufficiency, roles generally associated with marriage and fatherhood,”
Nowhere will you see a woman lay claim to the social fallout feminine primacy has effected on themselves. Female importance is the socially correct narrative, thus the failings of that narrative, the failings of feminism, and the failings of the agenda of equalism are due to men unwilling to cooperate in seeing it succeed. 70% of men aged 20 to 34 are not married and the default presumption is that it’s men who are unwilling to accept their adult responsibility and marry a woman who will statistically earn more than him and resent his inability to measure up to her performance standards – the standards made glaringly evident in this documentary.
In a feminine-primary social order to be a ‘responsible’ man is to comply with dictates of women’s sexual strategy while accepting her dominant and counter-feminine role and demeanor. To be a ‘real man’ he must accept being relegated to being her dependent while still being expected to be a good father. To be an ‘adult’ he must accept the doctrines of equalism while still being beholden to the responsibilities of conventional complementarianism.
March 16th, 2015 at 6:12 pm
So I just started reading this manosphere stuff. A friend recommended it. I guess I’m a total beta loser.
Engaged with this woman I thought liked me. She gets called on overtime a lot. A lot.
I kept thinking about her settling and being an ex carousel rider as you guys say.
I worshiped the ground she walks on and have never cared about anything. Last night she left in a hurry ( trauma nurse) and forgot her phone. I never ever cared but sonething did not feel right. I looked through it. Holly shit. She cheated on me with three guys. She has at least four other guys she sexts with. Another two she teases. At least four she lets bother her. She also flirts with all her exes…Holly fucking shit!!!! I just talk to one ex( once a year maybe) and some girl at work ( business shit). WTF!! Wow guys. She also has been riding every Tom Dick Harry in the past according to messages to her friends. Orgies, threesomes, group sex. Mother fucker.I did not even see this shit.
What should I do??
March 16th, 2015 at 6:14 pm
Bromeo,
I went to Cuba a year ago. The poverty is oppressive. I did not see any venue’s where you could meet locals, nor did I see tourist girls gone wild. It is definitely not a Cancun spring break kind of place. I’d like to hear your take on it when you get back.
March 16th, 2015 at 6:15 pm
My god!!! I feel like bashing my head and crying? I thought we were fine and she worked a lot. I am lost.
March 16th, 2015 at 6:18 pm
Perfect segue here.
Vulpine, what you do is get a woman who has the house and financial support of her ex. Move in with her and have the ex subsidize the relationship. The ex jumped first, you don’t need to, make the most of it.
This is the 21st century!
March 16th, 2015 at 6:38 pm
@ imscrewed
“What should I do?”
You’ll need to depedestalize her in your mind, close your heart to her and give up on a long term future with her.
If you can keep your composure and not let on that you know, you can have some fun with this one. How about gathering some evidence of what you found, then on the wedding day, at the alter, announce that you won’t be marrying her because of this behavior on her part, with a presentation of the evidence to the assembled guests.
See http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/03/the-rush/
March 16th, 2015 at 6:48 pm
@ imscrewed, relax, reassess, detox:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/05/15/detox/
March 16th, 2015 at 6:53 pm
“Trainwreck” movie trailer begins with a Dad teaching his daughters (small children) to say
“MONOGAMY ISN’T REALISTIC” in unison…
The ONLY hope for monogamy: “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” by Rollo Tomassi
March 16th, 2015 at 6:57 pm
Here’s the trailer for “Trainwreck” 11 seconds in…
March 16th, 2015 at 7:04 pm
http://www.thenewage.co.za/154068-1020-53-Man_buys_fullpage_ad_in_newspaper_to_accuse_wife_of_cheating/?switcher=1
@iamscrewed,
Just do it.
March 16th, 2015 at 7:06 pm
@ imscrewed
It could be worse
http://nypost.com/2015/03/16/i-bedded-12-strangers-in-a-year-with-my-husbands-permission/
March 16th, 2015 at 7:11 pm
@imscrewed
Assuming not a troll: if it’s your place, kick her out. If it’s her place, silently pack and leave. Seek out male friends or a male counselor to speak to. Do not fight over it with her, do not discuss it with her, do not give her an opportunity to justify anything, and for fuck’s sake don’t take any kind of revenge on her. Just quietly end things.
If she asks “Why?” just tell her she knows exactly why, hold frame, and do not budge. She is not the woman you love anymore. She never was. She was and is a feral animal unconcerned with your feelings. Treat her as such. No hate, no love, just indifference to her.
Move on with your life and find more important things to fill it with.
March 16th, 2015 at 7:40 pm
imscrewed:- look at Sun W’s words.
Read them, then do them.
Just go dark, off radar. Gone.
Big boys call it “Next!”, I’m told.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:00 pm
Thank you everyone.
I am not putting up with this. I have taken my things from her place. I cleaned everything I had there. I texted her and told her I read her phone. I’m going. AWOL from her life.
This is not something any man should except.
I should’ve played attention to her phone. Always ringing and her always ignoring the phone saying it is a telemarketing bull.
I feel.like a dumb idiot.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:06 pm
I expect I’m older than most of the other readers here. Married, late 50s, recently to the RP. As usual it is all about what she wants, what she expects from the man. There never seems to be any discussion of what she brings to the table and what he needs. He is supposed to be just the dutiful provider slave. And yes, men, unless you stand your ground and assert yourself, that is exactly what you become in modern American marriage: a sex-deprived worker slave.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:14 pm
Sun & Tam,
I appreciate the merits of taking the high road as you suggest.
But there is something else to consider – some Pavlovian conditioning in the form of punishing her behavior may benefit other men by discouraging her from doing that again with someone else.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:30 pm
What should I do??
@imscrewed —
As Rollo says, relax. World isn’t ending. Your worldview is on the verge of ending, but not the world. Calm down and read.
As for your fiancee, obviously you end that. That’s no woman to marry, even if you end up coming out of your worldview change still wanting to marry — that isn’t the kind of woman you marry, it’s the kind of woman you P&D.
I will say this, though — easy to be blindsided if you haven’t gone red pill yet. And nurses in general are some of the most sexually active/promiscuous of all educated women — there are many who are just like your fiancee, really. It’s known as a particularly slutty profession, unfortunately for you.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:33 pm
@Matthew;
“It’s not feminism’s fault. It’s the fault of that irresponsible prick male who couldn’t wait to ask a woman to marry him before diving into sex with her.”
Eh? Don’t quit your day job! Definitely ‘avin a laugh mate!
As for your comment on living in a fantasy world…???????
March 16th, 2015 at 8:35 pm
Why is nursing a particularly slutty profession?
March 16th, 2015 at 8:37 pm
@Jack
She will learn nothing, and ending a relationship with a woman is not about looking out for anyone but yourself. Taking the “high road” isn’t about being the better man or the adult. It’s about creating as clean and quick a separation as you can to start your own healing process as quick as possible.
The fate of her and her future chumps is none of my concern. Its their own responsibility. Caveat emptor.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:42 pm
@imscrewed
Hi troll.
Wow. You move fast. Only two hours and a couple of tidbits of advice and you’ve set sail for the new land? Bravo to you.
P.S. Your initial post has the narrative convenience of a Penthouse Forum letter. Go play elsewhere.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:44 pm
Why is nursing a particularly slutty profession?
Seems to attract that personality type. I’ve heard from many docs and even male nurses that the women are quite promiscuous in many cases — something which isn’t *that* common in other workplaces. Something about the culture of extreme stress — and the acceptance of ways to relieve that stress — seems likely.
March 16th, 2015 at 8:47 pm
@redlight I just found where you dropped the trailer for Trainwreck/ here last month: http://therationalmale.com/2015/02/09/topping-from-the-bottom/comment-page-2/#comment-87910
@Sun Wukong wrote
From just that clip, I’m seeing something that reads like the script of hitting the eject button right at The Wall and landing safely in BB territory just like all girls were promised. Is this the new modern American fairy tale?
In the trailer, they make it appear that it’s the Dad that believes monogamy isn’t realistic. So the assumption is: It’s the fault of the man.
That trailer, to me, is a great ad for “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” by Rollo Tomassi that’s already been seen more than 5 million times, “Trainwreck” release day is July 17, 2015.
When your perfect LTR/Marriage partner hits you with “Monogamy isn’t realistic” get “The Rational Male” (Volume 1) and “The Rational Male – Preventive Medicine” by Rollo Tomassi
The new book is filled with new content that’s not on the blog.
$9.81 for the Paperback version, Rollo, with free Prime shipping?
I’m ordering more copies today
March 16th, 2015 at 8:50 pm
Jack Labear – “But there is something else to consider – some Pavlovian conditioning in the form of punishing her behavior may benefit other men by discouraging her from doing that again with someone else.”
I agree wanting revenge but…
You and I have obviously seen to many movies. In real life the best revenge is just leaving and reaching a place where you no longer care one way or another.
The less said the better in these situations. Anything more than saying “she was a disappointment” is saying too much. Likely her friends know the truth so poisoning her social circle is probably not going to work.
March 16th, 2015 at 9:12 pm
“Why is nursing a particularly slutty profession?”
A single nurse, plain and simple, has many opportunities to capitalize on her dual sexual strategy in a hospital setting. Both with beta orbiters to give her self esteem a boost and with Alpha mindset men (read dark triad surgeons).
I just got done with two weeks of staff consults in the hospital (one or two a day for two weeks) and my mind is blown how doing the hospital work is so different with a red pill awareness vs. blue pill drudgery. It was actually a enjoyable game rather than drudgery.
If I had known then…..
Actually that’s not true, I was red pill back then and picked up a 25 year old nurse who was +3 SMV to me and have been married 25 years.
Nurses are slutty cause they can be. Opportunity is there. If you want one you have to pull them off the carousel early in their career.
Once again, this is more so for hospital nurses.
March 16th, 2015 at 9:27 pm
@Jack
Well, it’s not that nurses are promiscuous. it’s the night time shift that makes everybody a “bit” romantic (horny) Oh night time where everything seems so right for luuuuuove.
Add that to the image of the alpha doctor and the inferior nurse getting her revenge at the Dc’s wife.
And voila ,,there you have it an “innocent ” liason.
March 16th, 2015 at 9:42 pm
Nurses are slutty cause they can be. Opportunity is there. If you want one you have to pull them off the carousel early in their career.
Once again, this is more so for hospital nurses.
In my experience it’s also because the odd hours (particularly at a hospital) mean they’re physically incapable of having a normal relationship. She can’t be around when you’re awake. You’re always second to the job. It pretty much dictates her continued membership in the hookup culture.
March 16th, 2015 at 9:48 pm
@all
How come no one said anything about Rollo’s new profile photo?
I think the photo sitting in the casino is the best.
March 16th, 2015 at 9:52 pm
Mr. T.: It’s not the inferior nurse. It’s the attractive, 23- 25 year old hypergamous nurse. The Way of the Superior Nurse is hypergamy in action. Beta orbiters (lots of them) and a pool of Alpha men to choose or be chosen by. I have seen lots of superior nurses in my career. I have seen attractive nurses are among the best to give the best care to their patients and interact well with doctors. I have seen unattractive lazy nurses be horribly unfit non-caring towards patients.
Another thing is that social interactions fly by at a furious pace in the hospital. One interaction after another. And not just intersexual. There is a higher and lower caste system–Doctors, nurses, nurses aids, unit secretaries, physicians assistants, low level transport employees, phlebotomists. And the tremendous burden of dealing with a patient’s expectation and families. It’s a busy microcosm.
If you are blue pill and you have intrinsic Mastery of your primary profession it is a literal playground. It only took me three months–after an M.D. degree–at a new hospital to lock down a good female spouse. No regrets after 27 years.
March 16th, 2015 at 10:13 pm
Doctors and nurses have plenty of opportunities to DHV, obtain social proof, have an abundance mentality, spit game, and enjoy the show. If a nurse is attractive, caring (as trained to be) and good at being effortless in her duties, the wold is her fucking oyster.
My mom was a nurse. My wife is a nurse. My mom was monogamous and a good wife. My wife may or may not be an Alpha Widow (I’ve never asked her, nor cared to find out). Her being a nurse works for her, me being good MMV worked for me. Like Walter White, I feel I won.
March 16th, 2015 at 10:15 pm
But I digress, back to the troll: why all the spelling mistakes. Is it the grief?
March 16th, 2015 at 10:34 pm
In case anyone is interested: the Trainwreck movie is written by and stars Amy Schumer, a comedian whose trademark is the HB 5 party girl refusing to face her epiphany. Except that as a comic she is quite self-aware and uses this character frame to hang her jokes on. You may not care for the movie, or dig her comedy,but she knows what she’s doing.
March 16th, 2015 at 10:42 pm
@Fred
she knows what she’s doing
Never doubted that for a second.
March 16th, 2015 at 10:58 pm
@sjfrellc
Gee, what gave you the idea I was directing my comment to you! .
You said:
“But I digress, back to the troll: why all the spelling mistakes. Is it the grief?”
Fine you can disagree with what I written and my bad spelling still got you going.
Sorry for my spelling mistakes, it’s just my German is not my third languishing.
March 16th, 2015 at 11:00 pm
@Mr. T.
sjfrellc was not directing that at you. The troll in question was the obvious TROLL that appeared earlier in the comment thread.
March 16th, 2015 at 11:32 pm
@diplomat.
I’m not saying ALL nurses are promiscuous.
I was saying you could be working a midnight shift at Home depot and sleeping with a female Co worker is possible.
I believe the chances of having an affair is much higher when men and women work together at night shifts.
March 16th, 2015 at 11:44 pm
What might be the purpose of the trolling?
Feminists trying to get more men to go MGTOW?
I was going to drop it, but my comment above meshes with this thought I formed earlier:
@Sun Wukong
“The fate of her and her future chumps is none of my concern. Its their own responsibility. Caveat emptor.”
It is your concern in that you have become so ‘caveat emptor’ you seem to be gun shy almost to the point of MGTOW.
I don’t take your complaint of not being able to land women attractive enough for you at face value.
March 16th, 2015 at 11:53 pm
Diplomat is correct. Not you Mr. T. Directed at “imscrewed”‘s original post.
Never detected a misspelled or misdirected from Mr. T.
Speaking of German. My red pill epiphany of the importance of “Game” came when I had a student study tour of Germany at 16 years old in 1977.
Started in London for 2 1/2 days. Remember there some food vouchers stored up got us to a steak and ale on the last day of our stay. The owner surmised we were less than 17 years old enough to drink ale and called us on it while we sat at a front of the restaurant picture window. He said “I’m sorry but I’m going to to have to move you to the back of the restaurant to finish your steak and ales. …So we did. and finished our lunch while witnessing at an adjacent table an adult complaining about how long it was taking for his steak to be delivered to him. He ranted about the wait time. And when the steak was rushed out to him, he complained that it wasn’t cooked enough. We clinked our beer mugs and stated “sounds like he got what he asked for”.
And we had adventures in Amsterdam, Cologne, Rhuedesheim, Boppard west Germany, at the hotel Stadt Berlin on Alexanderplatz in east Berlin, Vienna, Konstanz on the Bodensee and a day in Paris on the way home.
I came home and saw the blue pill socialist ways of the places during that visit and at the time (1977) the USA was still capitalist red pill but changing to feminist blue pill. Then and there when back home I decided that if the US was a red pill game, then I might as well be good at playing the game, instead of a blue pill loser. I was driven to “play the game” well. And it did, thanks to that socialist tour.
March 17th, 2015 at 12:09 am
@Mr. T.
All women are promiscuous in accord with the base instincts that fuel their hypergamous behavior and innate preselection for r men. Given the right man (or men) and the right stimulus at the right moment—AWALT. Knowing how this works is the foundation of game.
@Jack
Never concern yourself about what a troll is going for. They waste valuable time and energy and steer the dialogue off of a productive course. Ignore them.
March 17th, 2015 at 12:16 am
@sjfrellc
I misunderstood.
I apologize.
March 17th, 2015 at 12:51 am
@ The Diplomat,
I understand about not feeding trolls.
My interest about what motivates the troll is twofold.
1 It is a way of learning about the culture and world around me. There is probably ‘trolling’ going on everywhere in daily life. Understanding it is a way to avoid being taken in by it. It’s a window into covert social conventions and attempts to manipulate me.
2 By seeing the big picture including the motivations involved, I’m less likely to be taken in by a troll in the future. That’s in keeping with your caution about wasting time and energy.
Also, the topic that the alleged troll brought up is appropriate for this forum. That’s what makes the idea that it was a trolling that much more interesting to me.
March 17th, 2015 at 1:14 am
@Jack
I don’t take your complaint of not being able to land women attractive enough for you at face value.
I don’t particularly care if you do or don’t, and frankly that’s got nothing to do with this discussion. 2/10, piss poor attempt at a strawman.
However, if you’d like me to argue more to your point, I will. Between this:
If you can keep your composure and not let on that you know, you can have some fun with this one. How about gathering some evidence of what you found, then on the wedding day, at the alter, announce that you won’t be marrying her because of this behavior on her part, with a presentation of the evidence to the assembled guests.
and this:
But there is something else to consider – some Pavlovian conditioning in the form of punishing her behavior may benefit other men by discouraging her from doing that again with someone else.
I see more about your own sadistic needs to punish and get revenge than actually “fixing” a woman’s behavior. It suggests far more about your personal inability to let go and move on. Revenge in this manner only prolongs the time a Blue Pill man will spend plugged in and suffering, meanwhile serving no purpose only than to “get back” at her.
If you wish to maintain any woman who has wronged you as your mental locus, you are free to do so. I won’t be controlled like that, nor will I recommend it to others. It is, in a word, unhealthy.
March 17th, 2015 at 2:16 am
@ Sun Wu Kong
This is in response to the comment you directed at me…DAMN! It’s that bad huh? So, my case on Facebook was not unique. Well, then I’m truly glad to have met Rollo on Susuave and found him here and this group on this blog. I feel privileged to know the truth.
The fact that we can’t be open with what we know outside here feels like a burden and also makes us seem like cowards sitting back and watching our time period go up in flames. Trying to save each man a person at a time seems like it’s hardly going to count. Most of the guys I’ve even mentioned the red pill are so oblivious and don’t even seem to have a clue as to what I’m talking about.
I’m currently talking to a married guy about his wife who had her relatives’s fiancee and his buddies run a train on her. She claims to have enjoyed the experience and he’s still considering taking her back because she said she wants to change. Yet he refuses to set boundaries for her. He’s also willing to give her a second chance but from what I know from being on this site. How is that supposed to work. The frustrating part is i’ve been asking him to check out this blog and he keeps saying he’s busy. Sigh!
March 17th, 2015 at 2:32 am
I agree that meanness and cruelty to others is a bad thing, and dwelling on trauma induced revenge fantasies is unhealthy. Your last paragraph is an excellent insight.
Some turn the anger at having been badly treated outwards, others like myself tend to turn it inwards where it manifests as depression.
An idea I had is that some men who are sensitive and basically kind might turn their pain and anger inwards to seek revenge by proxy, the proxy being their own selves. Kind of like my belief that while I don’t have the right to kill anyone else, I have the right to kill my own self.
Dropping out of the game is functionally equivalent to being permanently dumped resulting in incel.
March 17th, 2015 at 6:58 am
@jack lebear,
“Vulpine, what you do is get a woman who has the house and financial support of her ex. Move in with her and have the ex subsidize the relationship.”
Why? You’ve got to be talking about at least a thirty-something here. Is the thrill of stooging some unknown guy worth that much? That’s a chick-minded move on your part. I guess you were just goofing around though, yeah? No big deal.
March 17th, 2015 at 7:24 am
The fact that we can’t be open with what we know outside here feels like a burden and also makes us seem like cowards sitting back and watching our time period go up in flames. Trying to save each man a person at a time seems like it’s hardly going to count. Most of the guys I’ve even mentioned the red pill are so oblivious and don’t even seem to have a clue as to what I’m talking about.
Some guys (many) can’t be helped. They very much prefer to remain jacked into the matrix over the painful process of un-jacking and relearning every single thing about men and women from scratch. Unappealing to lots of guys, so there is a natural boundary on the number of men who are open to hearing the red pill message.
That in itself underscores the futility of a “wider movement” of any sort to address the underlying issues. If you can’t get a man whose wife is having trains run on her to read a few things, you certainly can’t have any hope whatsoever of having any significant number of guys join a movement. Not happening. That’s why MRAs remain very small, and mostly comprised of men who are on the harsh back end of having been badly burned and spit out by the system. Every other guy? Not going to reach 90% of them.
March 17th, 2015 at 8:08 am
Jack Lebear: Once again I’m Sun W’s mini-me on this. “punishment” etc. even if it could be devised and implemennted, would be wasted on a proven Liar and what in my books could also be a psychopath. How do you instruct or deter psychos?
Avoid. Do not engage.
I didn’t catch the “troll” aroma, so could some clever person please spell it out for me or I’ll just go on feeding them unawares. Seemed legit if a bit dull. When I was young everything I owned fit in a backpack. Made damn’ sure it did, or it just got left. Which is why I never caught the TV bug, a 32″ CRT is a right bastard to stow.
Also, what the fuck is it with nurses? That’s one of the reasons it seemed a reasonable issue to me. Personal experience.
March 17th, 2015 at 1:05 pm
@ Colonel Trautman
” Is the thrill of stooging some unknown guy worth that much? That’s a chick-minded move on your part”
I’m not advocating stooging some unknown guy, nor would I get a thrill from it. I find it a positive that there are some men out there like you who care about the welfare of other men more than getting theirs at any cost.
As for it being a chick thing, the same criticism and debate has been made about Game in general.
I’m just pointing to the reality of the modern world where we have to deal with the contigencies facing us. It’s the same as using game to get laid in this era of open hypergamy. It’s along the same line as advocating poaching other men’s women, which BTW I consider undesirable to throw other men under the bus just to get laid. And even if you find what I said distasteful, it is still a reality that many men will find themselves in the situation of mating with a woman who is financially benefitting from an ex.
@Tam the Bam
Let me clarify, I’m neither sadistic nor vengeful. Besides having been heavily BP, I have also been subject to the (No More) Nice Guy syndrome most of my life, putting others, both men and women ahead of myself.
My tendency is to turn my pain inwards and self destruct. What I was doing here is exploring alternative reactions. I’m gyrating towards the opposite extreme in my mind to try to find the middle ground.
Actually, the normal human revenge fantasies if I have them are short lived because when it comes down to it, I can’t be bothered. As Sun said it’s best just to put it behind me and move on instead of stewing in the trauma.
March 18th, 2015 at 1:15 am
@jack lebear,
Well if a guy gets burned while you’re pursuing your wants, that’s one thing. You framed it like that was something you should actually look for (taking advantage of another man’s cash). A world of difference there.
March 18th, 2015 at 2:55 am
What’s the difference if I had nothing to do with the woman’s divorce?
Suppose my finances are in bad shape because of my divorce, and I have the choice to have a live in LTR with one of two women, equally attractive, one of whom has the house and spousal support, and one who doesn’t, and they both earn the same wage. Are you telling me there is something wrong with choosing the one with the house?
Actually, the picture I had is that if all divorced men financing exes got together with divorced women being financed by exes, then all the divorce rapings cancel. There is then zero net transfer of wealth from the men to the women.
March 19th, 2015 at 12:58 am
@Jafyk
March 14th, 2015 at 6:21 am
Hey, for the record Roissy has a few hidden gems. The link below says it all. That ovulation game stuff? All bets are off when the woman is on the pill:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2011/10/19/how-the-pill-will-change-your-game/
March 23rd, 2015 at 8:09 am
It’s important to remember that american, or any foreigner of a developed country, have a easy time with women in brazil just because these women sees these man as having much higher status than the average native joe.
My statement can be confirmed, for example, by this news, which explains what I said just by the title:
“Brazilian Men Are Pretending to Be World Cup Tourists to Hook Up With Brazilian Women”:
http://mashable.com/2014/06/26/brazilians-go-gringo-to-hook-up-at-world-cup/
If brazilians are pretending to be foreigner to hook up with their own natives it is because the native women value foreigner more than the natives.
March 30th, 2015 at 7:20 pm
As far as Bachelor Nation goes, does this mean that the 34 year old men and older out there are going to now mate up with the carousel riders????
Any thoughts on that???