Forge the Sky:
The heart of all this is: in a woman’s mind, humans have three genders. Women, alphas, and betas. The problem is, it’s difficult to distinguish between the latter two as there are no clear biological markers; a few un-fakeable traits like height and muscularity give an indication, similar to how long hair tends to indicate a woman, but not infallibly so.
But women have different relationships with them. To women, betas are friends, helpers, co-workers, employees, servants; unless related by blood, they are practical beings only. There is no romance to them. They are useful, fun, maybe even someone to be a little affectionate toward so long as they remain useful, but they have no deeper self, no soul, no mystical thing to bind to.
Alphas are something else entirely. They are actually people – people drenched with desire, romance, spirit. Him, she can respect. In greater cases even worship. It matters little how well he performs objectively, so long as he does nothing to make her doubt her assessment of him as alpha. If he does perform, she admires and praises his performance – but she’s doing that about something or another regardless, even if she’s gushing about how he bought her a bag of skittles.
No woman will stand beside a beta as he faces, and succumbs to, death. Not unless it’s convenient, or she would be shamed otherwise. It simply would not make sense for her to do so. Would you hold your employee’s hand as they lay dying? Only if they had a fatal accident right in front of you. Past that, condolences to the kids.
Men see two genders. Men and women. Better and worse, more and less attractive, but no fundamental difference. Without being trained in a (for us) counterintuitive mindset, we will by default project our understanding of gender upon women. And so we try to improve our beta game, instead of flipping the script.
The blue pill is miserable because it is learned helplessness. From within, it is the cracking of an invisible whip, punishment meted capriciously and without time or reason. There is no pattern or method to the blue pill man’s pain.
FTS must’ve been reading my mind this week because his comment made a perfect segue into what I’ve been developing this week. The most salient part of this comment, I thought, was “Without being trained in a (for us) counterintuitive mindset, we will by default project our understanding of gender upon women.”
This was a good observation because there are intrinsic parts of the male psychological firmware that the Feminine Imperative picked up on long ago and deliberately co-opts to better aid in optimizing women’s control of Hypergamy.
From the utility-need side of Hypergamy, this mostly manifests in various forms of serviceable security. The Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy can be distilled to a need for security, protection, and a certainty that a woman and her offspring will be insured against any uncertainty. Every psychological and sociological dynamic that contributes to feminine-primacy keys on this need for existential certainty. The War Brides dynamic, the evolution from old-order chivalry to modern feminism, and now the social / legal handicapping of men to ensure that feminine-security certainty above all other considerations are all manifestations of this need.
The Feminine Imperative learned long ago that men’s innate protectorate instinct for the feminine was its second most valuable means of masculine control – the first being men’s ‘always on’ sexual impetus. Thus pairing the two as a means of control is a simple deductive proposition for the imperative. The rudimentary connection being, “protect the woman and I get sex.”
This is the unspoken exchange that’s part of our evolutionary past. Men are nothing if not deductive (yet creative) problem solvers, and women have used this to their hypergamous advantage since our hunter-gatherer beginnings.
This is what confounds modern men under the auspices of our present feminine-primary social order. We’re emphatically told that women “never owe men sex“, yet the latent message is, and has always been, “but, if you perform to her satisfaction, she might be more inclined to give you sex.” Carrot to pull the cart, I know, but this mental algorithm is a sociological buffer for women – exclude the sexually unworthy, but leave an acceptable caveat in order to leverage the possibility of sex with those who are still useful in providing security.
Bear this in mind the next time you read a story about a savior White Knight who was beaten to a bloody pulp for his effort to protect a woman from the “predations” of some Alpha(s) she likely wants to bang anyway. Men will project, by default, our own gender interpretation onto women, and sometimes pay the price for it. Betas believe the feminine-primary, equalist advertising that men and women are functional equals while still force fitting an expected, old-order, male-protectionism (completely based on an unequal state presumption) into that belief – often at their own expense.
Invisible Men
While I disagree that there are no distinct physical and cultural markers that women use (sometimes subconsciously) to distinguish Alpha men from the bulk of Beta men, I strongly agree with the distinction and characterization Forge the Sky makes with how women regard Beta men.
The vast majority of men are sexually invisible to women, but all males are visible in terms of their utility to women and the role those men are expected to play in deference to women’s solipsism.
There’s an important difference in that visibility with respect to men and women we need to consider.
I expect that female readers will trot out the “ooh, ooh, men do it too” counter that women are invisible to men who don’t see them as a sexual prospect. That may be the case, particularly for mature women convinced they should be sexually viable into their 50s, however, those women’s functional utility is never an issue for men. Neither is it an article of attraction for a man. As much as a feminine-centric culture would like to convince women of the opposite, men simply don’t factor a woman’s provisional utility into their attraction equation.
Invisible men never become visible to women until either those men intrude on a woman’s’ awareness or she has a specific utilitarian need of him. At this point, whether due to arousal / attraction awareness or her specific need (usually protection or security insurance), that man must perform to prove his maleness. He must qualify for her visual acknowledgment of him.
Over prolonged periods, this invisibility, and the fear of having his insistence rejected, can influence men’s overall perception of women and their intergender interpretations. Invisible men tend to confuse a woman’s utility interests in him as genuine indicators of interest (IOIs). The Feminine Imperative prepares for this ‘mixed message’ with a constant, self-perpetuating social narrative that tells the invisible men they are never, under any circumstance, owed a woman’s intimacy – it is always a gift, a reward, for her approval.
Despite this aspect of their social conditioning, the Invisibles still read more into those IOIs and perceive that a woman’s attraction is a genuine extension their own serviceability. This is the foundation of the Savior Schema. Much of what the manosphere considers sexual ‘thirst’ is a direct result of the scarcity mentality that results from an Invisible becoming an unexpected service-providing option for a woman.
Invisible men become more compliant when women’s utility needs make them visible. They confuse their use with genuine appreciation and desirability.
If we consider the 80 / 20 rule of the sexual marketplace and figure that 80% of Beta men are sexually invisible to women we get a broader perspective of how the gender landscape has evolved in an era where women’s security-side needs are planned for and met with a relative degree of certainty.
I had a teenage kid I used to consult who related this story about how one of his nerdy friends had somehow spontaneously generated the interest of a girl who was an obvious two points above his SMV. His initial frustration was one of wonderment about how this guy could be ‘dating’ so hot a girl while he wasn’t bumping the needle with even the girls he thought were a point below himself.
His nerdy friend assumed the predictable self-righteous Beta position that some “special” girls just understand and appreciate guys like him in favor of the brutish jocks “society tells them they should like.” All this came two weeks before that year’s homecoming dance (and after-party), where she promptly left him to go dance and party with her girlfriends and their jock guy-friends for the rest of the evening.
This kid had served his utilitarian purpose of fronting the money for the evening, a limo, corsage, photos (of their group) and the bit of risky underage liquor he could manage. In spite of all that he still refused to make the connection of his being used for her purpose. Invisibles feel validated in their own manipulation because that utility made them visible (“do my homework nerd”) even if just momentarily. As bad as that extortion was, that brief moment of visibility implies the prospect that another woman in the future (a really special one) will also appreciate his utility and reward it with her intimacy.
Needless to say, this visibility differential becomes an internalized factor in men’s approach to women. There are ways an invisible man can make himself visible; all require effort and risk. As I stated before, a man remains invisible unless his physical presence and arousal prompts make him unignorable, his performance is outstanding enough to draw attention or he simply asserts his visibility towards that woman. Physical bearing and performance recognition being the Alpha Fucks side of the Hypergamy equation is an easy follow, but a man asserting himself and his personality is where the Red Pill and applied Game come into play. This prospect will always imply risk of rejection until such a time that an Invisible’s confidence supersedes his self-image as an invisible.
We had a long discussion in the last thread about the mindset of the MGTOW contingent of the manosphere and the sentiment of men wishing to remove themselves wholesale from the sexual marketplace. I understand this sentiment and I know men, like Advocatus Diaboli, who have legitimately recused themselves from the SMP, but it seems to me this want is the result of having been invisible to women for so long. They get to a point where they become invisible by choice.
The Third Sex
I can’t finish this essay without drawing attention to FTS’s first observation:
The heart of all this is: in a woman’s mind, humans have three genders. Women, alphas, and betas. The problem is, it’s difficult to distinguish between the latter two as there are no clear biological markers; a few un-fakeable traits like height and muscularity give an indication, similar to how long hair tends to indicate a woman, but not infallibly so.
After I’d reconsidered this I had to dig out my copy of Plato’s Symposium and pore through it to read the part where Aristophanes proposed that there were, in fact, three sexes (in primal times) that their all-male discussion collective ought to consider:
There were three sexes: the all male, the all female, and the “androgynous,” who was half male, half female. The males were said to have descended from the sun, the females from the earth and the androgynous couples from the moon.
A lot is being made of transgenderism recently and the fluidity with which people want to arbitrarily “gender-identify” borders on the ridiculous, but FTS’s observation has more implications than I think most are aware of. I’m sorry to go all philosophus on you, but I can definitely see parallels with the symbolism Aristophanes suggests and the female perceptions of the division of maleness FTS brings out here. Although Aristophanes would say that these primal beings split into gays, lesbians and heterosexual beings, I’d suggest that this primal awareness stems from a male understanding of the division of Alpha and Beta men and how women perceive them, visibly and non-visibly.
I covered this a while back in Queens, Workers & Drones:
Selective Breeding
So powerful is this sense of entitlement, so consuming and convinced of the correctness of their purpose is the feminine that women will literally breed and raise generations of men to better satisfy it. Hypergamy is cruel, but nowhere more so than in the relationship between a mother overtly raising and conditioning a son to be a better servant of the feminine imperative.
But to breed a better worker, the feminine imperative’s queens can’t afford to have any corrupting, masculine, outside influence. On a societal scale this might mean removal (either by disincentives or forcibly) of a father from the family unit, but this is the easy, extreme illustration. There are far more subtle social and psychological means that the imperative uses to effect this filtering – via mass media, social doctrines, appeals to (feminized) morality, the feminine is placed as the correct imperative while the masculine is filtered out or apologetically tolerated as vestiges of an immature and crude reminder of masculinity’s incorrectness.
Yet for all of this social engineering Hypergamy still demands satisfaction of women’s most base imperative, Alpha seed. The queens need physically / psychologically dominant drones – if just for a season and at their ovulatory pleasure. While beta workers are endlessly vetted in sisyphean tasks of qualifying for the acceptance of the feminine imperative, the Alpha drones live outside this shell; their qualifications only based on how well they satisfy the feminine’s visceral side of hypergamy.
The great irony of this social solution to hypergamy and long term parental investment is that the vast majority of the offspring of this arrangement would be raised to be better workers. Those betas-to-be boys must be insulated from the corrupting influence of the drones lest they devolve into the Alphas they crave yet cannot control. It may seem counterintuitive, to raise what should ostensibly be optimized genetic stock as a cowed, sometimes medically restrained, feminized beta males. However it is through this harsh conditioning that truly dominant Alphas must rise above. Essentially the genetic lottery isn’t won by women in such a social environment – it’s men, or the ones who rise above in spite of the conditioning efforts of the feminine imperative.
February 27th, 2015 at 9:13 pm
@TuffLuv – While I think you are a white knuckling, purple-piller, I also have huge sympathy. Digesting the Red Pill is hard. And I can relate to you a lot. And I had great sex with my ex after we separated. Yawn…
What you seem to miss is that your fucking cunt of an ex-wife just destroyed your family. And then – and only then – will she throw you some wild pussy. She’s still manipulating you with sex and you don’t even see it. Hell, you aren’t just blind – YOU BRAG ABOUT IT. I wonder if you ever asked yourself this question: If she’s going wild for you now, what do you think she’s doing with the guy she left you for? She’s having porn star sex with him. I mean, do you think she’s having worse sex with him than you? Fyi, I know – I did the same thing. Also, ask yourself this? Why do you think she’s doing it now? Because you’ve suddenly become so irresistible to her? Are you that asleep?
But I was a man about it. My POV was, “Well now she’s cheating on him with me”, lol. I left her sticky and confused and felt like I had the last laugh. Now I know what it was. You see, she was a dime but she had serious Daddy issues and wanted to be taken care of. I was good looking but not at her level, but she saw me as a real earner with a ton of ambition. The new guy? He was a chef, did okay, good looking but really just bigger than me, taller and I’m pretty sure he had a dick like a baby arm. Fyi, i’m average and not sensitive about it. But in his best year he would make half of what I make in a bad year. It was just a different reality and I think she was literally seeing how her possible futures would diverge over time. My income tripled in the three years after she left me, so that gradient was also at work, constantly tempting her.
I also lost some weight and dressed more fashionably. But still, I knew – I could never trust her. She was flipping back and forth between hots and provisioning – but her attraction to me was real. But there was no going back as I knew in my gut that she didn’t have strong desire for me, and I listened to it. But still, we had some wild sex during that time. It was only after digesting the red pill, 20 years later did I really get it. I was disposable to her. Men are disposable to her. It’s a family tradition…
We bounced off each other for 3 years after we split up, and even had one weird encounter after she was married. I really liked her cheating on her new boyfriend with me, it was justice. She turned on me and destroyed my family. My daughter, at 26, hates me. And if you knew us 10 yrs ago you would have said that is impossible. Divorce destroys families and has bad effects on the kids. Many of their issues with you may not come up till later, who knows, your kids are older so I hope you do okay. But you seem to not have the proper amount of rage for a man who’s wife has blown up his home and family so she can get her rocks off. Perhaps you are actually relieved too?
Even more oddly, you hold doors and vassalize yourself to women consciously now, and connect more with fat women etc. I get it, as in a way now I’m less angry with women than ever. I get they are just doing what their nature and society permit/make them do. It’s not personal. I also do practice game with lower SMV women so I’ve got more skill for the hotties. I also flirt a lot with many women, and sometimes, just as when one is catch-and-release fishing,well one gets stuck in the boat. The hook gets in the gill and you just can’t get them back in the water. It’s amazing how badly women behave when you change your mind. Every one has screamed and cried, and every time I thought to myself, “Imagine I behaved like this every time a woman refused my advances?”
But I don’t give a shit. If they are 18 or over, it’s all fair game after that. Whatever lies, games, misunderstandings – I don’t give a shit. I play them because they play me. I finally got the message. So, I manipulate them now and get what I want. I don’t give a shit how they feel about it. Interestingly, women are much less rough with me about how I treat them now than ever. They respect me more, and I’m much more of an asshole than I ever dared be.
And I think it’s only going to get worse. Heh heh. You guys would love some of the long-running games I’m playing out with my plates right now. I play out these narratives that dopey, hot young chicks believe. They want fantasy, they want to believe that fucking an old guy like me is special, lol. That it really does mean something, that they are special because they see how I look at them. I do amused mastery and the corporate warrior. vibe I’m surprised at how much more strongly the current crop of 20 somethings are impressed with an executive job and a nice sports jacket – one that I didn’t buy for under 100 dollars.
I stopped by to see a young friend not too long ago on my way to the airport and I was dressed for some meetings I was going to have when I landed. She was so turned on by it, it was wild. I think this latest generation is really struggling economically so they can’t help but get more interested in the provisioning side of things.
My whole angle of inquiry now is what can I get out of all this? How does this serve me? I have huge compassion for myself – I’ve been sleepwalking for much of my life. Oh well – too bad, get on with it.
I think that the hardest thing for me was my ego. I was so angry at myself, so frustrated that I had played a chump’s game for so long. At some level, I of course knew “game” and the Red Pill were correct but had ignored it. I also could immediately see the SMP and also identify many of my own dominant tendencies and how well women reacted to that side of me. But instead, I shamed that side of myself. I always thought poorly of myself as I had internalized the Feminine Imperative and was always trying to live up to an ideal imposed upon me of what I should focus my ambition on. How I could “climb” and “win” in THEIR game. Not mine and I knew it on some level.
I think my last point, most of all, is why women just don’t “get it” when Rollo talks about invisible Betas. They can’t help it – they live in a world that caters to their concerns, priorities and grants them great privileges in virtually all social settings in our society. Unless they step out of it, how would they know it? They live in a world where men are supposed to serve them – that’s just the way it is.
February 27th, 2015 at 9:17 pm
@Rollo
Finish the book, bro. I need new reading material!
February 27th, 2015 at 9:20 pm
Tilikum. It’s one thing to be easy. It is another thing to be be effortless. The key component is skills at being effortless at game.
Because you put in your Malcolm Gladwell 10,000 hours to be an OutLier. A rare breed because it is rare that people aren’t INTJ and believe that others aren’t too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve excellent results.
sfcTON is congruent. Heheh. He called me out on watching the Oscar’s TV Show. A travesty. He is alpha in this descritpion. My descrition is beta. I simplhy had not reason to waste a couple hours.
A masculine male would do well to not waste his time. The most blue pill event ever Blair Noso nailed it on ROK. http://www.returnofkings.com/57235/the-academy-awards-reminds-me-again-why-i-dont-watch-movies
Sfc Ton. Respect.
Tilikum, Respect.
February 27th, 2015 at 9:26 pm
@sjfrellc
He called me out on watching the Oscar’s TV Show.
Shit, that ain’t nothin. I’d have called you out on that in my most Blue Pill of days. Bunch of self-congratulatory masturbation on the part of Hollywood. Not worth watching in the least. Ever.
February 27th, 2015 at 10:48 pm
@Glenn: “I think she was literally seeing how her possible futures would diverge over time.”
I think she was doing it because she could. They will do it if their ex is lying drunk in the gutter of the flop house he just got thrown out of because he didn’t have the rent money.
They do it to show that even under the circumstances they can still play you like the proverbial violin and perhaps even leave you convinced that you were the winner of the deal.
However much they may not want you, they still want you to be their puppet.
February 28th, 2015 at 12:03 am
@rollo in all honesty you over-analyze and obsess over blue pill/red pill.
Blue pill is a part of game. And if you actually have authentic high value in your life (CEO or doctor etc) you can afford to be blue pillish and beta from time to time (obviously know boundaries and don’t go over board).
But, a girl will be flattered if you have this value and you are doing it for her.
Obviously she will be sickened if some loser working at the gas station is on his knees bowing down to her.
It’s well put as: authentic, passionate, dynamic.
“Bull pill” isn’t opening the door for your girl.
Blue pill is saying “I love you” to your girl everyday and taking her out to dinners when she is not letting you have sex with her.
Careful with over-analyzing rollo, that in itself could hurt some of these guys’ lives
February 28th, 2015 at 1:20 am
@Will
Horseshit.
Blue Pill is acting without awareness. Red Pill is acting with awareness. Acting without awareness is always fucking stupid. Without exception.
February 28th, 2015 at 2:29 am
I adore the picture of the invisible man with the honey in his arms wearing that blank stare,
February 28th, 2015 at 7:34 am
It’s funny how Tuff assumes that the readership here generally has no experience with marriage counseling. What a ridiculous presumption that is.
I had two swings by marriage counseling during my marriage. Both were ineffective and made things worse — and the counselor was very pro-marriage, relatively speaking, and not pro divorce. The trouble is the framing — it’s a terrible framing for the most part. Are there possibly unicorn counselors out there who manage to be very different? Possibly, but there aren’t many of them. Then entire ideology of the profession is inundated with anti-male nonsense.
Some of us actually *do* have the experience of counseling, Tuff. Methinks you were just more desperate to make your situation work out, which was your choice of course, but some of us were not as desperate.
February 28th, 2015 at 7:35 am
Titcum is nothing but a bitch who thinks he is some kind of word ninja but I’ll put money on him not having the balls to shut talk me or my crew face to face.
February 28th, 2015 at 7:37 am
“.. I felt like I was confessing to a janitor.”
Not to be sniffed at. Probably a better idea than having some never-really-left-school-or-parents “professional” witter their lecture notes back at you.
The janitor at my elementary school was an ex-RM commando with a (fascinating to us kids) tin leg. I’d take his word on most things, if he was around anymore. He could even get ladders and retrieve footballs from the (flat) roof. Slowly, and very deliberately.
February 28th, 2015 at 9:53 am
@sfcton
See, dude, this is what I’m talking about. HULK SMASH is not an effective game strategy when faced with a physically dominant AND somewhat bright guy. Use your brain, boy!
As to your “crew”, thats never hard to topple. Usually a quick offer of an extra $20 for a case of PBR if they sweep the driveway AFTER they get done cleaning up the yard and they are happy as a clam!
February 28th, 2015 at 10:00 am
RE: Marriage Counseling – My erstwhile wife and I went to marriage counseling, with a new agey, pseudo therapist my ex insisted we see. The entire vibe put the onus on me to “fix” things.
At one point, she had us do a communications exercise, Imago listening. The structure was simple, but quite challenging. You sit face to face with your partner and take turns speaking and listening, but do so in a very specific way. One partner has 3 minutes to say whatever he/she wants about the relationship and the other has to just listen, silently. When the 3 minutes is up, the silent partner has to recite as accurately as possible what was said in the 3 minutes. It’s quite clever as it makes so clear how we spin the narrative with those closest to us.
Me, being the idealistic sucker I was, I actually enjoyed the exercise. I could do the listening, no problem but could definitely see how my frustration with our marriage would come out when I tried to accurately recite what my wife had said. I got better at it. I felt like I might actually be listened to for once by my then-wife.
My ex? She could never get through the 3 minute listening exercise when it was my turn to talk without interrupting me and yelling at me. I was glad for this too. Finally, my covert narcissist of a wife had blown her cover. She showed how unfair and unreasonable she was being right in front of the therapist, and I could finally have a witness, and a professional one at that, who could perhaps point this out to my wife. You see, my ex was nasty and ridiculous quite regularly, mostly when we were alone, but put a very nice face out to the world. It was unnerving. So to have our marriage counselor see exactly the kind of ridiculous behavior she engaged in regularly with me, well I thought that this would be a real breakthrough in terms of putting some focus her behavior.
Nope. She was handled with kid gloves and the ridiculous inequity of her behavior towards me was never dealt with. I was stunned by this. I was young, 29 years old. I was a handful myself, so I was willing to look at what my part in the matter of our marital problems was. But it was nothing of the sort in terms of a shared idea of responsibility. Actually, i felt set upon. I felt like my sexuality was shamed. i felt like the entire thing revolved around making my ex happy.
My relationship with my ex was like a riddle I couldn’t solve. And even when her ridiculous behavior was laid bare in a clinical environment, there was no intervention. No hope of change.
In a way, this is just another echo of the FI. Only one person shamed my ex for how she denigrated me. She began to be derisive towards me when we were at her sister’s house and her sister finally pulled her aside and told her she couldn’t visit anymore because she was embarrassed by how she treated me. She actually read my ex the riot act, telling her how good a husband and father I was and how lucky she was to have me, etc. It was really the only time anyone called my ex on her shit. But this was the exception, mostly she kept it from view.
I go back and forth on whether my ex is mentally ill or not. She fits covert narcissism, but let’s be honest about me, the angry, jilted ex-husband diagnosing his ex-wife’s mental illness – yeah, I’m not biased, right? Lol. But seriously, it was suggested to me that she was so by a psychologist, so I’m not just making this up. It felt like crazy-land, and in many ways it was just like the emotional abuse of my Dad. He – and she – would run long term gambits on me to shame me and keep me on defense. And their behavior was so unpredictable, and at times quite vicious. My Dad was certainly mentally ill, either a sociopath or a psychopath, and I don’t think my ex was that brand of crazy. My Dad was a sadist too, fyi. Which was nice, I had that going for me growing up. But my ex didn’t seem to get giddy about it, it was more like disgust and loathing. For those new to my story, this was a mere 4 years after we were married, and I hadn’t changed a bit. Rollo cites me in an earlier article using the quote, “She turned on me”.
I felt invisible. It seemed my suffering didn’t really matter. I was doing a ridiculously long NYC commute at the time and rode the train quite frequently with a group of married guys who did the same. We ended up playing cards on the train and became friends. They were all older so it was like looking down the road at my future. Only one had an occasional sex life, the rest were in mostly sexless, joyless marriages, trudging away the years while they suffered silently. We joined each other each morning at 6:30 am, their dead eyes with raccoon like circles under them, telegraphing how they were dying inside. And how futile they thought complaining was.
This was just the lot of husbands and fathers, that’s what I figured. It was thankless, but I’d have the very long run satisfaction that I raised a family and contributed to the species and built something good. Even if I was not appreciated by those who directly benefited from my efforts. When I write this now, I realize how crazy this all sounds. The notion that my happiness in the here and now is not my first priority seems absurd to me.
Perhaps this is what freaks women out most about the Red Pill? That men will become as selfish as so many of them are? They have a voice to discuss being invisible, the entire fat acceptance and anti-ageism concept – Madonna wast just quoted discussing ageism in the music business. But there is no such public dialog about older men, is there? None. And there is no public dialog about the 50% or greater of men who are utterly rejected and invisible but are programmed to want sex with women at 10x or more the levels women feel?
That’s being invisible. A blue pill man is on a hamster wheel that he isn’t even allowed to complain about running on.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:12 am
@sun
(particularly at the hands of my mother; she saw a boy that looked like her abusive ex husband in front of her and abused him a lot for her catharsis)
I have a question for you, only to satisfy my own curiosity, and please don’t take offense.
I’ve had multiple close friends whose mothers treated them in this exact same way, and each one of them described an abusive (in some way) father. I’m just wondering how abusive you feel your father TRULY was. Because your phrasing states that the abuse you suffered came ‘particularly’ from your mother. It’s always seemed a paradox to me, that these friends had dead relationships with their father (wrote him off), yet it was obvious their pain really came from the mother (as you stated).
I ask because I’m intrigued by the work of Gardner regarding parental alienation, for obvious reasons.. my wife was a victim of it, and I am now a potential victim of it.
So, it’s a candid question.. Was your father truly abusive and do you have solid memories of that abuse or is it mainly based on information you received from your mother (possible gas-lighting). Is it possible that she is just a professional victim, and poisoned the relationship with your father, even if only to a degree. Like some fathers are just hard asses, but not actually abusers, and when they become absent, it’s fairly easy to paint their prior actions as true abuse, when they were really just trying to raise a man.
To suggest this is the case with you, would be super-presumptuous, so please understand, I’m not.. I’m just asking the question.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:13 am
@glenn
Still reading your comment.. but preemptively..
“What you seem to miss is that your fucking cunt of an ex-wife just destroyed your family.”
.. is not lost on me.. lol
February 28th, 2015 at 10:45 am
@glenn
alright back the truck up.. damn I just keep going deeper down this rabbit hole..
Are you that asleep?
No. Here’s what happened. Wife had an affair, came home and said we were done, unconditionally. I said, “what’s his name?”. She lied.. I managed to get her phone.. busted. That all took place in 24 hours. paramour was going to marry her (supposedly), and immediately move in with her. As I scrambled to work out an amicable MSA with her and cut my losses, I also tempted her back to my bed (wine did most of the work), because of my own neediness, and in order to destroy the relationship with this man, so I wouldn’t have to kill him when he showed up (this was about 3 weeks in). Note, he’s a stranger from another town. This worked, and he bailed on her. She slept/met with him twice, total. The waiting period for divorce is 61 days. It was during this time that we were getting wild. Her hyper-sexuality with me started about 4-5 years ago, when she hit her stride, but yes it was even more intense during this 2 months.
She moved out 5 days after that 1st day, when she was still locked to him, with my daughter, behaved herself and went about setting up her new digs. He was not able to be around. They had one weekend together during that initial 3 weeks. Once that fell apart, after she started fucking me again.. she was on the hunt. First thing we had done was agree to a standard visitation with my daughter. So on weekends when I had her, and she was free, she was diving headfirst into the local single scene. However, she is cautious and timid, and that WAS her first affair. So, consistently, she’d go out on these weekend, get all this attention, and then end up back at my (our) house about 2 AM and get her rocks off on me (she had a key). Every time, she’d say, I’m only here cuz you’re safe.. we’re still divorcing, blah blah..
There’s more but I talk too much..
So, 1 week before the finalization of the divorce (which was subsequently overturned on appeal), or 10 weeks after initial affair, she met this new guy, and started dating him. They are now engaged (4 months later).
Last time I touched her was 1 week before the prove-up, about a week after she met new dude.
It was a month later that she opened the appeal. At that point I began truly despising her, lost any and all interest in ever being physical with her again. I have never hated anyone this way. It’s sad because I’m not built for it. I have a loving heart. She is by far, the only person I have ever despised in this way. My greatest enemy ever, and that ever will be. I have ZERO interest in ever touching her again. I do not miss her. Every memory we ever created, is torched. She is truly dead to me.. except I still have a raging battle brewing with her. I will never forgive her, not for the affair, that’s no big deal.. it’s for her actions after I let her gain distance from me.. she’d been fired up by this little bitch lawyer, and her miserable divorcee friends, and she is destroying everything we ever built.
So no Glenn.. I’m not THAT pathetic.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:54 am
You physically dominate? With your small ass bench press? LOL what is the color of the sky in your world?
LOL my crew…. LOL you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about boy, or who you are talking to.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:57 am
P.s. New dude ain’t nothing special. Like I said before, he’s a ‘nice guy’. Stepped right into HER frame. He had no choice in the matter. I really do pity the fool. Sure, he’s getting some great sex right now. Believe me fellas, it don’t bother my one fucking bit.. not that part. The part about him playing daddy to my daughter so quickly tears me up.. but he has actually played by some rules we discussed, and it could be a lot worse.
I will repeat.. I don’t want to run him off. God knows what she’d have in store then.
It helps that I have some great friends, have re-established that I have little problem getting attention from chicks, and have scored once.
Best way to get over someone is to get under someone else, right?
February 28th, 2015 at 11:19 am
@glenn
“But I don’t give a shit. If they are 18 or over, it’s all fair game after that. Whatever lies, games, misunderstandings – I don’t give a shit. I play them because they play me. I finally got the message. So, I manipulate them now and get what I want. I don’t give a shit how they feel about it. Interestingly, women are much less rough with me about how I treat them now than ever. They respect me more, and I’m much more of an asshole than I ever dared be.”
I’m not here yet, obviously.. but it is inevitable, I realize that.
February 28th, 2015 at 11:20 am
@kfg
However much they may not want you, they still want you to be their puppet.
THIS
This is what this re-divorce is all about.
February 28th, 2015 at 11:27 am
@nova
“I had two swings by marriage counseling during my marriage. Both were ineffective and made things worse — and the counselor was very pro-marriage, relatively speaking, and not pro divorce. The trouble is the framing — it’s a terrible framing for the most part. Are there possibly unicorn counselors out there who manage to be very different? Possibly, but there aren’t many of them. Then entire ideology of the profession is inundated with anti-male nonsense.”
To the rest of your comment.. try not to assume what I presume. I fully understand that counseling is BS on the whole, fully understood at the time I was up against a fem-lopsided construct.. that’s why I was super-reluctant to begin with, and vigilant and controlling in my selection.
Above, is your experience. Mine was different. Yes, I found a gem.. A ‘cool’ lady who had lived her life the way all of us are suggesting a woman should live her life, under the frame of a more powerful man. She understood, accepted, internalized, and appreciated the concept of Patriarchy. Interestingly, I think she had a longing to be feministic.. because she is a super-smart lady, but her overriding ‘know-better’ side ruled her.
She was on my side. She could see that I was trying to preserve the marriage, and bitch was trying to find a reason not to.
We gamed her.. together.
I hear what all y’all are saying, and I’m done offering my unwanted advice.. nevertheless, oversimplification is not appreciated.
February 28th, 2015 at 12:03 pm
@rollo
When things settle down, and pacing the floor and reacting to lawyers subsides.. I look forward to reading ALL your books.
Congrats on your achievements
February 28th, 2015 at 12:09 pm
“I can see you don’t want any ‘dissent’ on your blog.. but y’all need to realize that if you want any kind of return of women to the old ways, then don’t give up the old ways.
Continue them, whether they like it or not.”
?????????????
February 28th, 2015 at 12:25 pm
dafuq?
From our overblown discussion on door holding?
While I concede I didn’t hold frame with my wife, was BP’d.. was a chump.. need to read more, etc..
I will still continue to hold the door. sorry guys.
I’ve covered the reasons in detail. I don’t see it as BP at all, while also acknowledging the arguments against it. Just yesterday I was in close quarters with two new pretty faces by that act alone. No I didn’t pull numbers, I’m not in that mode right now, I’m in idle.. But the interactions are good practice. Had I ignored them, let the door go, and walked ahead, I would have met exactly zero new chicks yesterday.
As far as the taken out of context comment above.. In general, TRP suggests the same thing. LTR game, holding frame, etc.. is adherence to the ‘old ways’ (i.e. patriarchy, male dominance, etc.). Just with far more finesse.
February 28th, 2015 at 12:29 pm
@ Tuff – Your commentary does illuminate a bit, perhaps you might understand the initial impression I had though, given the narrative you laid out.
As for getting to the place I’m at, I get that we are all on our own journey here. For me, once I got that at a basic level I valued myself in the utilitarian way the FI told me to, everything changed. Even as a father, the idea that my lot in life was to take whatever shit my adult kid dished at me – everything changed. I don’t take shit from anyone now. Some people don’t like it, oh well, they can suck my white Irish dick.
You see, I shouldered the burden and delivered. When I was called to account, for 30+ years, I provided and met my obligations to others. In the broader world, I attempted to be a “good brother/father/man/worker/son/husband/guy/American/etc”. And you know what? I was shit on for it. Nobody gave a fuck. All I gave was taken greedily, but the idea that this somehow created any obligation on their behalf to be grateful or respectful, or even just civil – nope, no way. They can treat me like some fucking guy they met on the street and I’m just supposed suck it up.
Fuck that. I also realized that I allowed myself to be played like a bitch in my career as I was often trying to do “the right thing” while my peers were busy thinking about how to advance their careers. Now? I’m the most Machiavellian motherfucker I can be and my behavior is utterly different in business. I’m productive in different ways, I manage my interactions using power dynamics, and I assert myself thoughtfully. It’s quite interesting to apply myself seriously to tending to my own advancement. That’s how I grew my business 3x in 1 year. And the business came to me almost without any effort on my behalf. That’s power, and in way what I’m saying is that I’ve grasped my full power for the first time in my life in a way that focuses it on me and my wants. It’s an alien concept for me sometimes, but I’m getting better at it.
The world rewards selfish pricks. Women like to fuck selfish pricks. Ergo, I’m a selfish prick.
February 28th, 2015 at 12:43 pm
@Tuff “When things settle down, and pacing the floor and reacting to lawyers subsides.. I look forward to reading ALL your books.
Congrats on your achievements”
You do see what you are doing there, right? You’re trying to qualify.
Your stories add to and validate this blog’s message, but your blue pill assertions make about as much sense as a woman we met a couple weeks ago. A 28 year old girl (fully in her epiphany phase and all that entails) showed up with her boyfriend at an all guys (deerhunting) party. (His excuse was she’s a deer hunter too). She starts to lecture some red-pill guys in their 50’s (several of which had their wife walk away with over $1 million of cash and prizes). She blathered on about how women like her should be happy with a guy that works at McDonalds and she can forsee a woman walking away from a man.She was preaching to the wrong crowd. Her assertions were destroyed. When she realized it the cringe on her face was priceless.
Tell some stories sure, but watch the preaching to a red pill crowd
February 28th, 2015 at 12:45 pm
I am definitely on that road and I feel your pain brother. Amen, and here’s an Irish poem for you that my parents have hanging on the guest bathroom wall. NO SHIT :)
May those who
Love us, love us.
And those that
Don’t love us
May God turn
Their hearts;
And if he doesn’t
Turn their hearts
May he turn
Their ankles.
So we’ll know them
By their limping.
February 28th, 2015 at 12:47 pm
@sjf
fuck off. play your passive aggressive games with someone else.. go pick on Will for a while or something.. lol
February 28th, 2015 at 12:53 pm
Mentors don’t require qualification. They do it for the internal rewards.
I can compliment rollo however I choose, and you can suck it before and after your henpecking.
February 28th, 2015 at 12:54 pm
And that is no way to pass a shit test.
You’re qualifying yourself if you are making excuses for what you said or did. If you’re reacting to the person or group and going out of your way to justify your words or actions. This is all approval seeking behavior.
You do realize going forward if you can pass a shit test and check your self qualifying you can get into the girl’s pants easier?
February 28th, 2015 at 1:05 pm
You’re shit testing me? Now who’s acting like a woman?
February 28th, 2015 at 1:07 pm
plus.. unlike other’s.. I’m not here to learn how to get laid, bro.. I’m here to heal, and understand, and yes, possibly add to the discussion.
February 28th, 2015 at 1:07 pm
Ask sfcTon if any guy in a group of guys ever shit tests buddies in the group?
February 28th, 2015 at 1:14 pm
http://illimitablemen.com/2014/12/14/the-shit-test-encyclopedia/
“Why are they called shit tests? Well when somebody “gives you shit” and fucks around with your head to see how you will react, what you are experiencing is typically a (series of) shit test(s). Everyone has been shit tested, gets shit tested and will continue to be shit tested; It’s an unavoidable part of human interaction. We use shit tests to make value judgements about people and likewise they can be used to determine how you cope under pressure. The underlying theme behind the mechanism of shit tests is that they will always test your mettle. Hence the name is not only fitting, but likewise accurate. Shit tests don’t always have to be questions, they can be blanket (but accusatory/provocative) assertions. These assertions will be designed to elicit an emotional reaction from you and push you into a state of reactivity, causing you to reveal information about yourself.”
February 28th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
From the same reference:
“Those who consider themselves “a bullshit free zone,” eg: masculine men will “ball bust” (read: shit test your ass a new one) quite relentlessly to determine “just how much of a man you are.” If you are an effeminate or timid man you will feel bullied rather than challenged and that tells the group everything they need to know about you. You will fail to understand that what you are experiencing is a social initiation ritual that all men must go through when they are new to a male-dominated group. You will be relentlessly ridiculed to determine what you’re like and where you fit in on the pecking order. If you are too reactive, you will be rejected and exiled from the group, or relegated to the bottom position as the emotional punch bag everybody ridicules for cheap laughs. To avoid finding yourself condemned to such a fate you must demonstrate you can spar verbally without taking anything to heart.”
February 28th, 2015 at 1:22 pm
You just failed my shit test.
ha ha, kidding
February 28th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Dude I’m in my 40’s.. you aint teaching me a thing about the male social dynamic. I’m here because of the female dynamic.
February 28th, 2015 at 1:36 pm
You are saying “cogito ergo omnia sum” I think, therefore I am everything!
You have a lot of make-up reading to do. Both on Game and Rollo’s 400 essays.
February 28th, 2015 at 1:46 pm
“you aint teaching me a thing about the male social dynamic. I’m here because of the female dynamic”
do you think the red pill is about changing the male dynamic or the female dynamic?
February 28th, 2015 at 1:59 pm
Both. Obviously. Moreso the male of course. However, it’s the change in the female dynamic that has prompted these necessary changes in the male dynamic. In the end, this is an adjustment to a male dynamic that has existed for all time. Good enough?
February 28th, 2015 at 2:07 pm
“In the end, this is an adjustment to a male dynamic”
and you are saying that nobody can teach you a thing about this?
February 28th, 2015 at 2:12 pm
male social dynamic. i.e. social interaction among males. i.e. as sun so eloquently put it earlier,, comprehension motherfucker, you’re not doing it. :)
February 28th, 2015 at 2:12 pm
And yes, that’s what I’m saying.. you have never met a more shit-talking brutal crowd than my crowd my friend.
February 28th, 2015 at 2:15 pm
To split hairs.. YOU asked a question and used “male dynamic”. MY original quote used “male social dynamic”, and in context that meant what I repeated above. Male dynamic, in the context of your question, meant, male behavior, particularly pertaining to male-female interactions. sigh.. this is tiresome
February 28th, 2015 at 2:17 pm
.. should be pretty clear by now that my skin be thick.
February 28th, 2015 at 3:05 pm
Should be pretty clear that we should watch what you do. Not what you say.
I screwed my little story up in the paragraph above. The sentence that read Mcdonalds and she can forsee (as I typed above) should read can’t forsee.
“A 28 year old girl (fully in her epiphany phase and all that entails) showed up with her boyfriend at an all guys (deerhunting) party. (His excuse was she’s a deer hunter too). She starts to lecture some red-pill guys in their 50’s (several of which had their wife walk away with over $1 million of cash and prizes). She blathered on about how women like her should be happy with a guy that works at McDonalds and she can’t forsee a woman walking away from a man.She was preaching to the wrong crowd. Her assertions were destroyed. When she realized it the cringe on her face was priceless”
When she first met the older group of guys she treated them like Invisibles, not even bothering to ask a name–referring to me as that guy in the corner seat. In the late afternoon after our discussions about how she wasn’t seeking an absolute Alpha (remember she is 28 and knows she can’t get alpha and needs a provisioneer) we took a tour of the hosts hunting property. It had some spectacular huge Alpha looking Bur Oaks including the last deerstand site. While in the field you could see and hear her oooing and ahhhing over how spectacular that monstrous tree was. It was spectacular and I looked like she was in the process of creaming her jeans.
When we got back to the smoking lounge at the house later, I lit up a cigar and her a cigarette. I asked her a simple question: “Little miss Epiphany, I those trees out there in the woods were men, which one would you choose? The big bur oak or the scrawny prickly ash? (a contrast of Alpha an Omega). She had a slight confused look and then answered: “Well the bur oak”. I said “That is the right answer!” And then she cringed big time, thought I was being mean on the playground because I put a lie to her hamsterization about the Mcdonald employee (future provisioneer)should be good enough.
I didn’t feel much like game that day, mainly because I got word that my father had died that morning and because her ass was a half inch too wide.
Oh, she was HB 6.5 but dressed sexily and carried herself as if she were an 8.5.
But my red pill friend ran some excellent boyfriend destroyer game on her and she responded as predicted. Looked at him like he was a charming Plan B.
I’m pretty sure she affirmed her love for her boyfriend that night.
February 28th, 2015 at 3:44 pm
@TuffLuv
Heh, my mother’s abuse was more notable because she had more time. Both were incredibly angry, psychologically abusive people. Both went too far with hitting me for discipline when they lived in the same house/town. Then mom moved me a thousand miles away to get away from dad’s death threats (yes, I saw the letters he was dumb enough to write making them) and I saw dad for a total of 6 weeks a year.
Mother was physically abusive till I was 15 or so. It ended when I was tall enough that I was able to look slightly down at her eyes finally (Mom’s 5’8″, so yes it took a long time to get there). One night she pulled her standard psychological assault followed by a slap to the face. Then she decided on another slap and I caught the wrist. I looked her dead in the eye while holding her wrist up and said “You can ground me, you can yell at me, you can insult me, you can give me any order you like and I’ll obey, but if you ever hit me again I’m going to break your fucking wrist. We’re done with this game.”
Her psychological warfare after that only increased, and that shit is honestly more devastating than the physical. I left high school with absolutely zero self-esteem and a lot of self-hatred.
As for dad, his reaction to everything when I did live with him was to begin yelling furiously and go for his paddle while goddamn near out of control angry. When they lived together, mom refused to use that technique; funny how once she was on her own blows to my face, neck, chest, and body were suddenly just fine. Guess by around 9-10 years old my ass was too much padding for female strength to get through. Anyway, apparently with mom he would actually strike the face and body while screaming at her, and my knowledge of this was when I finally walked in on one of these beatings at 7 years old. I immediately ran at him screaming “Don’t hurt my mommy!” and was thrown (yes, as in feet left the ground) against a closet door in their room.
My parents both had tremendous, out of control tempers. My mother’s got worse after she no longer had my father around. They never should have been raising kids together. Both were monsters.
February 28th, 2015 at 6:07 pm
Kind of off-topic, but not really:
One of the reason so many people idolize superheroes is because they generally make them ask themselves: “How can I be better?” (regardless of how White Knightish the intent may be), not “how can I make everyone else stop improving?”
That’s a defining characteristic of a villain. One who’s trying to build a better beta–or maybe even a better invisible. Crabs in a barrel.
http://www.bulimia.com/examine/superheroes-with-realistic-body-types/
February 28th, 2015 at 6:51 pm
@The Diplomat
Who the fuck wants to idealize average?
February 28th, 2015 at 6:57 pm
@Sun
In a best case scenario–no one.
February 28th, 2015 at 7:01 pm
But if you click the link I provided, or just follow the “body acceptance” (read: fit-shamers) movement, you will see very clearly some who want to “idealize average.”
February 28th, 2015 at 7:07 pm
Neo: What are you trying to tell me? That I cant open doors for girls?
Morpheus: No, Neo. I’m trying to tell you that when you’re ready, you won’t have to.
February 28th, 2015 at 7:22 pm
“She could never get through the 3 minute listening exercise when it was my turn to talk without interrupting me”
this happened to me too, except it was a 5 minute listening exercise, and she would interrupt 30 seconds or so in
I cancelled future counselling, and I went to work just on this. Then it would go:
Me: blah, blah, …
Her: Interrupt, blah blah blah blah
Dead silence from me
after a lot of this, I got:
Me: blah, blah, …
Her: Interrupt, blah blah blah blah
Dead silence from me
Her: sorry, this is just how I talk
Dead silence from me
after a lot of that I got:
Me: blah, blah, …
Her: Interrupt, blah blah blah blah
Dead silence from me
Her: sorry, what were you saying?
Me: yes, what was I saying?
Her: I forget
Dead silence from me
then we moved to:
Me: blah, blah, …
Her: Interrupt, blah blah, oh wait sorry, what were you saying?
Me: I was saying blah blah
and most often:
Me: blah, blah, blah (finishes)
Her: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
February 28th, 2015 at 7:57 pm
Nice, bromeo
February 28th, 2015 at 7:58 pm
This comment thread seems to be a clinic on how “The Invisibles” attempt to make themselves seen.
February 28th, 2015 at 8:08 pm
This particular thread has gone more places than Eugene Fodor.
Mostly, it seems to have been an active intervention on behalf of Tuff.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:37 pm
“Mostly, it seems to have been an active intervention on behalf of Tuff.”
Although it might be easier to teach turtles how to outrun greyhounds.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:40 pm
The slight of hand is that they switched from “realistic” to “average.”
Catwoman isn’t the least bit realistic. That body type couldn’t straight arm180 lbs.
If you’re going to depict average, do it right.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:42 pm
@Sun Thank you for the reply.. you have my sympathy, not that you want it or need it.
“Her psychological warfare after that only increased, and that shit is honestly more devastating than the physical.”
I’m sure that’s true.
February 28th, 2015 at 10:59 pm
Gah! It’s done! Book 2 is off to the press and out for eBook formatting.
February 28th, 2015 at 11:12 pm
When is Book 3 going to be done?
February 28th, 2015 at 11:53 pm
I hope you celebrate your hard work with a couple fingers of brown liquor. And take Sunday off.
March 1st, 2015 at 2:00 am
@Rollo
Grats!
March 1st, 2015 at 8:08 am
@ Rollo – Congratulations. It is quite an accomplishment to write and publish two books.
March 1st, 2015 at 8:56 am
Tuff,
Read this book…
Empire of the Summer Moon: Quanah Parker and the Rise and Fall of the Comanches, the Most Powerful Indian Tribe in American History
This book is historical fact that you may enjoy regardless of how it may relate to discussions here. It may wake your mind to the reality of man’s true nature, then you may begin to realize how stifling our culture is, that women have gained so much power. We are not allowed to be who we really are.
March 1st, 2015 at 9:05 am
“May those who
Love us, love us.
And those that
Don’t love us
May God turn
Their hearts;
And if he doesn’t
Turn their hearts
May he turn
Their ankles.
So we’ll know them
By their limping.”
I get it…..one of your favorite fantasies is that “God” will break the legs of those who don’t facilitate your other fantasies. How is that working out for you?
March 1st, 2015 at 9:34 am
@Rollo
WTG! Can’t wait to have it on my bookshelf next to its brother.
March 1st, 2015 at 9:53 am
@Tuff – Your comments about male social interactions were telling. The Blue Pill is about how men have internalized a feminine imperative shaped ideology that informs all of our intersexual relations. The complaint starts from the observation that the formula we are handed – romantic love, chivalry, courtly love – vassalizes men. It shames our sexuality and also makes us believe that by being “good men” we can “earn” women when, in fact, men who “earn it” are used and disposed of by women like shoes. And that a certain class of man doesn’t have to earn it at all.
It’s also about observing how this worldview dominates so many institutions in society. But at the end of the day, I’m not asking women to change a thing. I’m changing my behavior and beliefs to comport with reality, and to serve me. You see, I spent a huge chunk of my life believing my value was in serving others, like many men. I’m also fortunate to have been born very good looking in some ways, so when I chose to attend to my fitness and dress, some women did indeed throw themselves at me. I’ve also had the experience of being invisible and being the alpha guy in some settings – I’m very socially dominant and aggressive. Women don’t make high value men “earn” it, they let you know they want to fuck you if you don’t act like an idiot. They do want you to “just get it”. But I always shamed this part of my sexuality and also never really saw women for who they were. I thought there was something “special” about me – not that they were just a bunch of hussies who will drop their panties in a heartbeat if you make them wet. Really. I wasn’t special, I just gave them tingles. And I thought their “love” was special, but it isn’t, it’s all the same actually (this realization alone is very painful, like a child finding out Santa Claus is just a myth). Women are utterly replaceable for men. If you don’t know this, you haven’t been with enough of them…
So now I take care of me first. Since I know female affection is replaceable, I treat it like a commodity. I know my suffering doesn’t matter to women so I no longer expect succor from them. I know that the world in which traditional men could “win” at the game of life is long gone, so I’m now a hedonist and a brute. And I play to win – period. I’m a good person in my own way – I don’t steal and I don’t initiate violence, but that’s about it – I’m no gentleman. I’m honest and supportive and a very reliable person with my friends, but beyond that? I’ve also dropped out of being interested in politics seriously as i realized it’s like an asshole convention. I hate it and it makes me unhappy. I also don’t spend nearly as much time online as i used to – this is the only manosphere blog I bother with anymore after previously having a YouTube channel and being very active.
You see, I no longer give a shit about the larger world and it’s such a relief. Our world was built by men who were as I used to be – serious, responsible and mindful of the larger world while driven by Western classical liberal values (getting off the liberal train at about Bentham/Mills for those well read in such topics). I saw myself as the guarantor, the carrier, the embodiment of those ideas along with masculine ideas and values. I saw my role as a father and husband in my family as a duty and way of serving the larger world and them – yes, I took it all quite seriously. But I got fucked up the ass a million different ways for doing so.
So now? It’s just about me. Like most of the other morons on this fucking planet. And you know what? I’m happier and I get what I want a lot more readily. As far as the larger world, yeah it’s spiraling into an economic and social death-dive – but why not? I’ve figured out a plan to survive and thrive no matter what. I’m not there yet, I need 5 more years, and by then no matter what happens I’ll be on top.
Perhaps after all the govt jobs have been cut by 80% and nobody has money for therapists and counselors and doulas and aids and advocates etc, some of those women will be dancing on my front lawn on summer evenings, trying to win the wet tee shirt contest that gets them dinner? Women will sorely regret their excesses once this last, greatest bubble of all bursts – the central bank bubble (and most women don’t even know what a central bank is – can you imagine being that blithely stupid about the world?). It’s coming (it’s already started) and really, it will be devastating for women. All the fields in which they dominate will be wiped out.
Teaching – this will be the moment when online education becomes the norm. Healthcare providers? These towering edifices to feminine stupidity will collapse as well as more than 50% of healthcare is directly paid for by govt anyway. Interestingly it won’t be as a bad as you think because due to the very high deductibles most people have now, there is already a thriving cash economy for the health care services people need day to day. And we’ll only see costs for that come down further while people pay for catastrophic policies to cover the infrequent big expenses. But if your wife is a nurse who makes 85k a year working 14 days month in shifts she picks – well those days will be over, lol. The exit of govt from this domain will improve it in a million ways.
Women reading along here, quick, can even one of you tell me what a central bank is – without using Google. Can any of you do that? In fact, here’s a quick economics quiz for you freeloaders. And know this, if you can’t answer these questions you are an economic child and should be embarrassed and never vote again. Really. Okay ladies, here goes:
1. What is money?
2. How do free markets work?
3. What is a central bank?
Bonus Round:
4. Who is John Rawls? (not an economics theorist but central to everything social justice types hold dear).
I don’t want answers, ladies. I want you to realize that you are free riding on an edifice that you don’t even understand, yet you vote for policies that destroy it. The the engine that gives you iPhones and $80 yoga pants that make your ass look just so doesn’t thrive on govt control and taxes and progressive dogooders, it runs on free markets and profit.
None of the policies that are eroding our economy go on full-retard until women get the vote. We don’t get a crypto-marxist who looks good in a suit for POTUS without women. We don’t get socialism running rampant in Europe without women. And when it all goes tits up, the blame for all this lands squarely at the feet of women. They wrecked the modern world because of their vapidity, vanity, ignorance and irresponsibility. Me? I’m 9 moves ahead of the morons (of either sex) now. I don’t fight them anymore – I anticipate them and play them to my advantage.
Free advice to sentient men? Buy real assets. Keep the debt low. Have a physical gold hedge/stockpile (it’s not an asset, it’s insurance and should be a low pct of your total holdings) and in the meantime, use cheap debt wisely to leverage modestly. Diversify out of the dollar and get some exposure to Asian economies. Most of all, buy real businesses that service the broader population, but don’t lard them up with debt. A laundromat. Diner. Gas station. Rental properties. Storage facilities. The currency will reset but once it does, people will still need all these things. And you will probably be able to rent one of your apts out to a 21 year old spinner hottie dime who will give you porn star sex a few times a month for the rent. But be smart – she still signs a lease for the rent and you only give her a receipt for cash payment only after she’s performed her duties.
Men who own assets will be more desirable and powerful than ever in the coming debacle. Women will panic, the funniest will be the radfem types and the uber “progressive” women who dominate up here in NH where I live. It’s interesting, the under 30 women seem much more impressed with my success than say the 41 year old school psychologist I recently went out on a date with. She had a very nice body and could pass for say 31, but had a self-absorption that was just impossible do get through. These women will be amusing to watch. She will have nothing. No house, no pension, no job and no skills that are marketable.
I’ll let her clean my house or work in the yard all day for dinner while I hang out on my deck with 20 something hotties. Lol. Really girls, this is what’s coming for you. And I can’t think of a more just dessert…
March 1st, 2015 at 10:46 am
@Glenn
Cool on all of that.. and much of it is opinion shared by me, and all of it is understood by me.. I have a BS in accounting, so hopefully that’s enough street cred, rather than giving you answers to your queries and you concluding that I googled.. I used to be a real sucker for news/politics, and it actually caused me some real depression before I started to play the chess game and think ahead, drawing many parallel conclusions to those you just expressed. I too think there will be a reset where women are forced back into the (severe) need and dependence on providership by males, and their carefree days will be over. However, I think this status quo was a long time coming, and will be a long time gone. As long as the Fed can ease, and inflation can be masked, which appears to be a very long time indeed and no one knows the ceiling, because the global economy is still just a toddler, the charade can continue.
But, it seems maybe you’re reading too much into my comments about my own male-male interactions.
“The Blue Pill is about how men have internalized a feminine imperative shaped ideology that informs all of our intersexual relations.”
For me it’s quite the opposite. I was a pretty wild child before I settled down (too young). Boredom drives me to seek out very entertaining people as friends, mostly highly extroverted. Like me, they are bored easily. If the FI has done anything to us as a group, it’s caused us to push the envelope of machismo interaction, one-upsmanship, shit-talk, bro-bashing (i.e. challenging), etc.. much further than normal, whenever we have the chance to break away, and absent any women. I don’t think this is uncommon nowadays, as a result of the FI. Remember how golf used to be a gentleman’s sport? Not in my group. It’s almost a contact sport for us? lol.. and a very expensive one too, catch my drift. It’s funny because in the FI’s quest to make us all more mature, responsible men (by their definition), what they’ve done is caused us to put on an act in front of them, and in their absence, go crazier and act more immature than ever.
It’s especially true in my case. One of the tell-tale BPD symptoms is that the girl will try to drive a wedge between you and EVERYONE else you love in order to more completely own you. She does this subtly, but surely over time. But I’m a hard nut to crack and I fought for my right to party all along, though she did succeed over time in no small degree with all of my loved ones (family, friends, and even kids).
We all know she defeated me.
But, my crew has no shortage of male-male brutality, and pecking order is a dynamic in our group, because it’s constantly challenged (it’s what we do).
So, don’t misread me, I was just responding to some patronizing (probably 25 year old) punk trying to educate me about how to establish my proper place in the pecking order on an Internet blog?? Really??
,
To be clear, it’s obvious I have no shame here, and could care less about my ‘status’, or ‘level of respect’ even. I’ve put myself on display, been (overly) honest, for my own reasons. Being perceived as an AMOG on TRM was not one of those reasons.
Btw, I like your writing style, and fyi before you arrived on this thread I had read the majority of your previous posts on other threads. Reading your stuff almost seems like I’m hanging out with the ghost of Christmas future .. in no small way.. It’s scary. Not sure if I’ll ever be as jaded (for lack of a better word) as you.. but I aspire. I’m half kidding.
March 1st, 2015 at 11:22 am
“Men who own assets will be more desirable ..”
Men who can seize and more importantly, defend convincingly assets, more like. From state depredations most of all.
We’re not going to be able to choose a “Goldilocks” sort of endgame/reset, i.e. “good for me, but bad for you guys”. Those who can take, will take.
Nearest I’ve seen is the Yeltsin-era FUSSR. Aim to be a politically-embedded gangster capo. Old Joe Kennedy, Any former Eastern bloc oligarch. Yakuza. Those guys.
March 1st, 2015 at 2:08 pm
@ Tam – What will happen is the feds will become weaker, not non-existent. The state and local govts will still exist too – they’ll just be much smaller. But there will be plenty of police and courts, don’t kid yourself. Remember, nobody owned all that property in Russia and they had no culture to support the validity of such structures. Govt is the biggest thief in our society and when it retreats you will see more civility, not less. Americans are a deeply moral people, actually, and very tolerant compared to other societies.
Some new monetary regime will emerge. We aren’t going to have a real revolution, the American people are far too somnambulant for that. The funniest thing about the Occupy movement or even the marauders in Ferguson is how actually powerless and few they are. The cops have figured out how to let these tiny eruptions fizzle out, as have the politicians. There is no real revolutionary movement in the U.S. today.
What, you think the politicians and the state will just give up? I mean, we’ll still be an 8 trillion USD economy (or whatever the equivalent of that will be). We are actually very productive economically, it will just be that beyond public safety and defense, govt will not be able to do much else. Massive amounts of wealth will disappear.
March 1st, 2015 at 3:10 pm
@ Tuff – I was not asking you those basic economic questions, they were clearly directed at women. Most men can answer them in some sort of reasonable way, although many men don’t have clear answers.
Tell us, you “Red Pill women” how many of you have even a rudimentary understanding of how a free market economy actually works. How many of you have put as much effort into studying that as you have say shopping for shoes in your lives? Or flipping through magazines looking at ads? How many of you have read a single history book that wasn’t assigned to you in school? How many of you actually understand how liberty and our great nation even came into being?
Damn few and that’s the real problem.
March 1st, 2015 at 3:17 pm
@Glenn
used and disposed of by women like shoes.
Not a fair comparison. Most women actually hang on to their shoes, sometimes even for far more sentimental value than they attach to any man.
March 1st, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Perhaps OT and certainly deep in-thread, but…
This post is timely as it relates to my recent experience with a couple of women. The intersect involves both the aspect of invisibility WRT “ooo men do it too” and visibility via “functional utility” as seen by epiphany and post-wall women, but also seems to have roots in male “vulnerability” as well.
E.g. from the Vulnerability post: “As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it.”
For me, this notion of vulnerability as anti-strength is very similar to invisibility. Dial up the vulnerability and sexual visibility goes translucent. In both cases, women will repeatedly ask for what turns them off, will vocalize the FI image of the emotionally “available” and mature man but actually just want him to “get it” and demonstrate as much through his actions.
Men who are suddenly (more) visible due to their functional utility coming into view for the 35 y/o settle-down set are primed to not just fall into that functional role, but the ones who have managed to be somewhat stoic and dial back their emotions (as I have managed to do) are repeatedly lubed-up to disclose more, to feed into the comfort requirements these women have as they change lanes, to walk right into the utility paradigm.
They see/feel the burgeoning awareness of value and options and immediately set out to hobble them, to shoehorn them into a state of vulnerability via: Self-disclosure —-> “sharing” aka “equal emotional investment”—–>”intimacy”—->”Love”.
I think it was jf12 who pointed out in Vulnerability that many women attempt to identify with the plight of the young beta male as they recount (repackage) their own image as some kind of invisible woman. That they *like* the *idea* of having been nerdy or overlooked or some ugly duckling. When in reality, of course they had nothing in common with such invisible men.
One plate loves to talk about how awkward she is/was – how much of a loner she was growing up, including through college. Yet, always, always had boyfriends and not just BF’s but BF’s that her friends from those days STILL comment about how hot/bad/alpha those men were. She may have been awkward or felt socially lonely at times, but she was hot, and was thus visible on a scale that few men experience – ever. Her high N should be an obvious contradiction, but solipsism is neat like that.
The other plate, similar stories, but lately has been obsessed with the idea of vulnerability as the gateway to intimacy as the gateway to “love”. Primarily because I am not particularly emotive, remain guarded about my fears or weaknesses, and maintain aspects of my life that are beyond her reach.
I’m well aware of the fact that she desires to angle in with the yoke (and I’ve been brutally clear where I stand on that), but for this demo (over 30, never married), I see a lot of crossover in the visibility and vulnerability aspects as they fidget with their own fears and projections.
She spent the other evening pushing some NYT linked “story” about some 26 or 36 questions “to fall in love”; a survey that some pop-psych boobs drew up to curry favor in the man-up-and-share-your-feelings camp. IOW, I don’t show enough vulnerability. I dismissed it wholehog. Which of course hurt her feelings. What is going on is that she feels vulnerable because I have the power. She feels she is taking risk while I am not. It is very uncomfortable. It is not “fair”.
The other plate does the same thing. She is afraid of being alone and so projects that onto me as an imagined outcome that she desires to help me overcome by sharing more intimacy (emotional) with her, opening up, being available, vulnerable.
After going through hell to become more visible and more guarded emotionally; constructing a life with options, flexibility, and adaptability, a physical presence of fitness and strength and style, all of these women seem to do is ask me to be the beta that got me into hell in the first place. I’m sure this tracks with the Sh*t test posts as well.
In both these posts (vulnerability and invisible men) I’m still having trouble dialing in the balance (for lack of better wording) to maintain my frame and demonstrate my strengths while also leaving enough (and the right kind of) breadcrumbs for the massive hamsters I encounter.
I do find this much easier in the younger women. But I find most of them just too intolerable to even be around.
March 1st, 2015 at 4:49 pm
@Razorwire
It is very uncomfortable. It is not “fair”.
Yet more evidence of women always wanting to call you out as “unfair” or “selfish” right before they assert their own selfish or unfair demands. Learning to not give a shit about this when raised in a Blue Pill context is incredibly difficult. It is, however, a shit test as you note it to be.
These days I give a woman one dismissive chuckle and possibly some teasing at her complaints for this (like any other selfish/unfair accusation) making it clear that I really don’t care if she finds it unfair. If she pushes the issue, I soft next with no communication for a period of time. Continuation after that is a hard next and replacement.
March 1st, 2015 at 6:23 pm
Razorwire – “…women will repeatedly ask for what turns them off, will vocalize the FI image of the emotionally “available” and mature man but actually just want him to “get it” and demonstrate as much through his actions.”
And for some reason we men continue to listen to them as if their words were actual attempts at honest communication.
A this regards (in)visibility it might be that trying to communicate on an equal basis erases arousal. Since women want an intense emotional experience providing an intellectual experience is a waste of time and counter productive. Therefore there’s no point in actually engaging with them conversationally unless the flow of the conversation is designed to validate or invalidate and to her provoke feelings.
Since woman aren’t capable nor desirous of reciprocal communication there is no point in actually listening to the content of their words, and no obligation for what we as men call honesty so long as we are generating an appropriately intense emotional experience.
March 1st, 2015 at 7:12 pm
Razorwire– I don’t want to give advice but would like to make a note. I read into your short narrative that these two plates are comfort (purple=loyalty) testing you rather than shit testing you. They are screaming at you to commit. You hold the keys to commitment they hold the you-know-what key. So the important thing is that you know what you want and execute you plan as best as possible. You can’t string a post wall girl on forever. Her clock is ticking. And her hamster is running.
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/06/18/value-shit-tests-vs-comfort-shit-tests/
If you want to have a LTR you have to have up Beta or at least have a reservoir of comfort for the girl that lets you keep frame and remain beta.
Red Pill advice assumes there’s already enough relationship comfort in place in order to up the Alpha.
I hate to recommend purple pill references but Athol Kay can delineate a little better the difference between comfort/loyalty test and straight out shit/fitness tests. google the terms.
March 1st, 2015 at 7:15 pm
Sorry, meant to say have a reservoir of comfort for the girl that lets you keep frame and remain Alpha.
March 1st, 2015 at 10:08 pm
Badpainter,
Honest communication. For certain, I far too easily lapse into absorbing their communication for content instead of for context. Proving to be a long process of personal re-programming on my part.
For all the braying about equal this or that and desiring more vulnerability, I agree: what they really want is the intensity of it all, which of course goes away as soon as I become what they say they want me to be.
I have a pattern of checking in and out of this whole mess – and by mess I mean even bothering with plates and the maintenance of such, which does make for a rather inefficient learning curve and application of RP thinking and behaviors.
I’m thinking I’m probably better suited for the occasional ONS than spinning – at least when it comes women of such experience (>35). But there is no escape; its all the same stuff really.
These post-wall casual-unti-I-want-more birds are just former 78’s that now want to be played at 33 & 1/3. Its the same songs. Unfortunately, I’m partial to the EP. Still trying to make out if/how/why that is blue pill residue or something else.
@sifrellc.
Spot on. Comfort indeed. But I’m not too sure how to differentiate “comfort” testing in the context of suddenly visible due to epiphany, from shit testing.
I’ve read the heartiste stuff and “get it” in concept but still lag behind in terms of application. I cite much of this to the confidence feedback loop, which seems to have a lag of about a year in my case. How to condense this closer to real-time is something my stubborn, over-intellectualizing ass too often fails to embrace.
Its squarely on my end, no doubt about it. Emerging from blue pill provider mentality is sticky. I often give off the necessary dominance, strength, and indifference to begin above the value shit test stuff but too often dip into blue as things progress.
Not exactly out of need, but rather the familiarity of that role of provide-protect-comfort. I’m a nice dose of self-made man but still dangle the coat tails enough to suggest meal-ticket or some such thing. So unless I’m a cold calculator they smell a settle-down guy stink on me. And I’m not good at being cold-calculator and fun-in-the-moment guy simultaneously.
The end result is a kind of swerving down the road, taking out mailboxes, clipping parked cars, as I catch myself dozing off into blue-pill comforting roles then waking up and jerking the wheel and flooring it back into my lane. Messy it is. Though I’m not very predictable, which I guess is something.
One of the ladies is hellbent on converting me to husband track. Which requires me to deliver brutal truths. They are “hurtful” but only because they shatter her self-constructed delusions. She knows this. I’ve been consistent from day 1 in this regard. The string is entirely of her design.
But your point stands. This cohort is treacherous for this – and many other – reasons. Unfortunately, it seems that they still want me to carry their water or to release them for their own good. This aspect is an open issue for me. I owe them only the truth. Not the protection of their feelings or their choices. Yet it so easily slips onto my moral balance sheet, if you will.
Younger women are better in this regard (their delusions are still open-ended) but are not as different in my experience as many men in the sphere claim. They do indicate the rarity of a masculine man, but I think this actually plays into their epiphany; when they do come across an older man with his shit together this becomes the pivot into relationship town as a result. The fuse is much longer, but it is lit nonetheless.
Perhaps I attract (or am attracted to, i.e. domain dependence) a certain kind/phase of woman who is in transition out of the “fun” days and into the “those days are behind me”, for reasons beyond me at the moment.
IDK, I’m getting on in years so the combo of their attribution/projection of trajectory-timeline “appropriate” for men of my age coupled with my deep-blue-pill training just sets the stage. A stage that requires a prop-master and set-designer with more skill than I currently possess to redesign to support my story.
Which is something I need to work on. What I want from women is not yet very clear to me. I still operate from the knowing what I don’t want position. I’m still in the lifestyle design phase and clearly still learning to understand what is reasonable to expect, what I can reasonably support given RP truths and where I am at in becoming the man I want to be.
That said, after a lifetime of delaying gratification, planning for some future according to the FI, accommodating a hypothetical wife/family into my life plans, and basically playing by the old set of books, only to have that rug pulled repeatedly, I’m deeply hesitant to consider too much of anything or anyone else outside of my immediate needs and my overall mission to grow stronger and happier.
So yeah, I’m breaking some hearts. According to the FI I’m stringing women along because I’m not signing up when requested. I’m overly sensitive and this does weigh on me, but also pisses me off. These women had a 20-year run at or near the top to construct their lives as they desired.
I haven’t met a woman near my age in 5 years who hasn’t had a cornucopia of cocks, traveled abroad, lived with at least one man, etc. I’m just the next guy. I’d say around 20th on average. Whatever they expect (are entitled to) from me is entirely in their heads.
March 1st, 2015 at 10:22 pm
Razorwire – “I haven’t met a woman near my age in 5 years who hasn’t had a cornucopia of cocks, traveled abroad, lived with at least one man, etc. I’m just the next guy. I’d say around 20th on average. Whatever they expect (are entitled to) from me is entirely in their heads.”
Right on.
Thus as number 20 you’d be a fool to expect that #s 21, 22, 23, etc. aren’t already just over the next hill, and you’re just another painted pony on the carousel waiting for the calliope to stop while the riders to change ponies.
No one asks the pony what it wants it’s just expected to do as told. We are on the carousel as much as the riders and whether we have riders or not we’re still expected to go round in circles when the music starts.
March 1st, 2015 at 11:43 pm
You have the thing that they want: Commitment. You are the decider of what you want. You decide. You decide you don’t want commitment then don’t give it. These girls you are currently spinning are not Epiphany. They are post wall. They have a time limit on how long they will be a plate spinning on a pole.
You know the rules of the game. Play it well. Keep your eyes open and your head up. If you don’t want commitment, spin the plate until you or her let it fall.
March 1st, 2015 at 11:47 pm
And Razorwire:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/15/alpha-agents-of-righteous-karma/
March 2nd, 2015 at 12:41 am
@ Glenn,
You made an interesting about Selfishness. I am currently dealing with personal issues related to the fact that I allow people to take advantage of me. It’s difficult for me to stand up for myself without getting and getting angry doesn’t go to well in professional settings.
Now, I am battling with some sort of ingrained guilt tied to the notion of self interest; I feel guilty when putting my needs first. People see it and take advantage of it. It comes from my upbringing.
You mention having paid your dues at work and being dedicated to your family for 30 year. How long did it take you to effect the change?
March 2nd, 2015 at 10:09 am
@razorwire
“She spent the other evening pushing some NYT linked “story” about some 26 or 36 questions “to fall in love”; a survey that some pop-psych boobs drew up to curry favor in the man-up-and-share-your-feelings camp”
Yareally on the 36 questions:
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2015/01/13/the-great-men-on-ugly-feminists/#comment-642136
PUA packaged
March 2nd, 2015 at 10:59 am
@ Sirtyrion 2.0,
I totally agree with your arguments. Do you have some blog where you’re posing or social networks? I’d love to get in touch with you :)
March 2nd, 2015 at 12:42 pm
@ Okami – The guilt about being selfish may mean that you have internalized the Blue Pill evaluation of your merit and worth in the world based on your utility to others. At least that’s what was so for me. I still get pangs but they stop very quickly.
March 2nd, 2015 at 12:58 pm
“Now, I am battling with some sort of ingrained guilt tied to the notion of self interest; I feel guilty when putting my needs first. ”
This. While I probably should re-read “No More Mr. Nice Guy”, in the meantime I’m always looking for more ways to bolster my sense of self-promotion and primacy of needs/wants, stripped of this nagging sense of guilt (or perhaps something else?) that seems to paint everything as self-indulgent and/or selfish.
It would be too easy to just lay it at the feet of my crazy mom who hated men and boys, my draft horse beta dad, or the fact that I’m (at least cognitively) deeply introverted, but I have found that stewing over those psychoanalytic roots just leads to a bitter-buffer soup of little nutritional value.
Like Okami, this aspect has been a huge sticking point for me. It is part of what drives the slippage back into blue when in dynamic social situations/relations – and is not limited to sexual relations.
Throughout my career I had to exert a great deal of energy to remain vigilant against allowing myself to be taken advantage of due to my propensity to give without appropriate boundaries or context or reciprocation; my desire to please, to do “good” work, to excel so easily harnessed for the benefit of others.
It was exhausting. I basically had to work harder to build my knowledge and expertise such that my value as a tactician elevated me above most of the typical leverage-prone situations. That and, despite my introversion, I was good-looking enough and sociable enough to endear me with the right kind of political allies. IOW, I was always “cool”. But it still required a great deal more of me because of this ingrained sense of self-flagellation or something.
While I have improved greatly and no longer place myself in those situations, the tendency remains present and is a part of the sticky, elastic blue-pill remnants.
I know Rollo has covered everything already, so this particular aspect of “guilt” is likely woven into a few posts, but I’m also curious to explore some actionable advice as to how one liberates from this sucking sound of guilt as it relates to protecting, maintaining, and elevating the Self.
Thanks for the links gents.
March 5th, 2015 at 4:33 pm
One takeaway from this:
Start your business. Start it now. Figure out where your market is, and start putting the pieces in place to exploit that market. It probably will not be glamorous, but you won’t thrive in our financial system as an employee.
We’ve all been conditioned to go down the same path. Get a diploma, get a job, and retire. Maybe after you’re retired you can go after that silly dream you had growing up. Maybe at 65 you can finally travel the world… Yeah fucking right.
If you want to do something, do it now. Don’t let society or your girlfriend or your mother tell you what you can or cannot do. Be a man and go after what really matters to you.
March 10th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
I don’t believe that mothers deliberately raise their sons to be betas. Everyone wants to maximize the number of their offspring, so it makes no sense for a mother to try to teach her son to be unattractive to women. I always assumed that they did this because they were too ignorant of how things really worked to realize how much they were damaging their children. To suggest that women deliberately breed their sons to be betas seems almost as ridiculous to me as would be mothers who castrate their sons.
And if the 80/20 rule is true, then it means that 80% of the male population will never find romantic happiness. Even if every male in the world reads this and tries to apply it, it would make virtually no difference to the dynamic. Women would still choose the most alpha among alphas. So on the whole, educating men about this stuff doesn’t help anything. I think MGTOW is right for many men. They have no hope of ever finding romantic happiness unless it’s an illusion.
I really hate all this game and redpill stuff. It’s not because I don’t think it’s true, but because I know it’s true. I got my first girlfriend a week after buying my first PUA product, and nothing has ever worked so well for me since. The only problem is that it is very unnatural for me, so that I can’t get an erection when I use it. That’s right, I was good enough at game to get women to want to have sex with me, but I was so disgusted by it that I couldn’t do it. I guess I am a super-beta in that I can’t be an alpha even when I’m able to trick women into thinking that I am. I’m planning on moving to Russia, because they have gender norms there, and hopefully I can hide my betaness behind this and find a good wife. Of course, I’ll try to be very careful about choosing a wife, and being as alpha as I can. If that doesn’t work I guess I’ll go MGTOW, and I’ll be very sad.
I think there always must be betas and there must always be alphas. The betas actually build society because they work hard in order to get attention from women. When life is difficult and women experience real hardship, they choose the betas, because they fear physical hardship more than they desire sexual satisfaction. When the betas build up society and make things safe for women, the woman choose sexual satisfaction because they have nothing to fear anymore. I think the attraction to alpha is that the woman wants to maximize the number of grandchildren by giving birth to sons who are good at seducing women. But alphas sire many children without taking care of them, so they are a parasitic part of society. When there are too many alphas, then society collapses, women fear physical hardship again, and the cycle repeats. I think the balance between alpha-inclined males and beta-inclined males probably looks something like the Lotka-Volterra curve for prey and predator. It’s ironic that the hardwork of the beta which earns him the illusion of love in his lifetime dooms his grandsons to be cuckolded by alphas. And then the alpha’s irresponsible pleasure in his lifetime dooms his grandchildren to live in poverty, not that he would care of course. That’s how I see it anyway. Maybe someone can correct me if I’ve got this wrong.
March 10th, 2015 at 4:55 pm
“I really hate all this game and redpill stuff.”
It’s what made Neo puke too.
“When life is difficult and women experience real hardship, they choose the betas, because they fear physical hardship more than they desire sexual satisfaction. When the betas build up society and make things safe for women, the woman choose sexual satisfaction because they have nothing to fear anymore.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_game_theory#Hawk_Dove
March 10th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
@brendan:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/05/teach-your-children-well/
March 11th, 2015 at 5:01 am
Thank you for the link M3. I thought the hawk dove thing was very interesting. But I don’t think it is a perfect analogy to alpha-beta dynamics, because it’s not like the beta isn’t willing to commit to fights. It’s that his strategy is less effective, either because he is too ignorant to be alpha, or he is unable to. I think the beta is actually closer to a hawk than a dove in that he accepts the cost of competition, although people think of him as weak. I guess the idea is that there is a balance between the alphas and betas in the population.
And thank you for the link too Rollo. I can’t tell if you’re trying to refer me to the part that talks about mothers teaching their sons to be betas, or the part about how society conditions men from childhood to be betas. In that article it sounds like rational man agrees with me that women teach their sons to be betas because they are ignorant, but in this article that we are commenting on it sounds like he thinks that women are a part of a conspiracy to produce betas.
I would be inclined to think that my inclination to be beta is genetic. I always thought of my friends and sex partners as being the same thing, so I always thought porn was boring. And when I dream about sex, it’s almost always in a LTR and with children. Can society fool me into being beta so thoroughly that I believe it even when I am unconscious? I think it is possible for men and women to evolve inclinations which seem to benefit the other gender more than themselves, because it makes the other gender more interested in associating with them. Of course I realize that beta-inclination would only be a successful strategy if for some reason the woman cares more about resources than genetics, or if I find a woman who also has a deviant sexual strategy. And of course the most successful strategy is probably a flexible one that has a balance between looking out after one’s own interest and catering to the interest of the other sex, which is probably why there are so few men like myself. There are probably NAWALT women who genuinely are attracted to beta men, but they are probably very uncommon, and difficult to distinguish from regular women. I think I found one when I was on an exchange trip to Germany. But she had other problems, in that she had aspergers, was a workaholic, and she decided after we had been dating for a year that she wanted to be a doctor more than she wanted to be a mother. I don’t think she had any side partners when we were dating because she never made me wait for sex, and she never played any mind games with me. She was a very kind person and the other people in her life treated her very poorly, which I suppose is to be expected from a purely altruistic life-strategy.
March 11th, 2015 at 1:56 pm
” And when I dream about sex, it’s almost always in a LTR and with children.”
I used to feel exactly the same way. And i mean exactly. You’ve conditioned yourself to have the preference.
Things change as your experiences in life broaden.
“Can society fool me into being beta so thoroughly that I believe it even when I am unconscious?”
Think back to your past, your childhood, how your mother raised and nurtured you, the friends you socialized with and what caste they were; cool vs. uncool, etc. Everyone is a sum of a million different interactions and choices in life that ultimately define your ego and who you are (or who you present to the world).
Put another way, if you were born in the Middle East, chances are you *might* have a different view of things ranging from views on sex, religion, what turns you on, etc. While the beta ‘gene’ is probably within all of us, only in contemporary civilization with ‘civilized’ norms and the uber feminine as it’s guide – is being ‘beta’ allowed to flourish to the point where ‘bronies’ can exist. That’s it’s extreme conclusion.
But had you been born during Spartan times, there is a great chance that:
a. you would not be beta, because you’d have it beaten out of you early in childhood or
b. you’d have been cast upon the rocks and left for dead if you were born with the precursors for being beta (premature, small, frail, puny, etc.)
[*full disclosure – i was a premie. Without medical intervention i wouldn’t be here. That coupled with my mothers insane protective smothering behavior compounded by my dads spinelessness in standing up to his evil mother’s domineering virtually ensured i was going to grow up beta and trapped serving the imperative’s needs from birth. Only by accident and then finding the sphere did i break the cycle.]
Having been surrounded by all of that, i chose my friends and my beliefs based on the things that fit best (and validated) my world view. Also, growing up in the 80’s during feminism catching it’s stride in the education system getting boys to stand down so girls could stand up, hearing about anything boys could do girls could do better, no war with girls in charge, men use women, women’s version of love is the right way, etc… i too developed that ideal of ‘romantic love sex as the definitive, all others puerile and abominable’. my ideal concept of best sex was a derivative of the ideals i grew up with and had invested into with my ego.
Seeing women i cared about enjoying rough, random, casual sex with the concept of love or romance far removed from the act really messed with my mental disposition. Having (hot, steamy, casual) sex with strippers finally dispelled the myth for me that sex and romance where not mutually exclusive. I can be just as aroused by the mental imagery of boning my girlfriend whom i love our current LTR, or i can equally enjoy the thought of getting a bj from a skank and bukkaking her face without any form of connection, simply pure unadulterated ‘objectification’.
Both are satisfying.
++
My use of the term beta here isn’t here to define an any individual or the monolithic group ‘beta’ – only to label the experience that Brendan is articulating.
Coincidentally, i found this video a very long time ago that i was going to make a post about – but ultimately abandoned since i stopped blogging. Considering this conversation at hand i think it’s worth a watch.
March 11th, 2015 at 8:20 pm
Well I was suicidal as a child because I was the school scapegoat and I got detention literally hundreds of times and I never found out why. Also I had a teacher who liked to humiliate me in front of the class. I learned that I should always hide my emotions no matter what. But that was a couple years before I went through puberty. I became interested in girls late, and in a rather unusual fashion. But I was always unusual, which is why I got picked on at school. I don’t know how much of my weirdness is inherent, and how much is learned. I will try to investigate to see if I can get myself to be attracted to women that I don’t care about. It sounds like you suggest hiring a prostitute? That’s rather difficult in the USA because it’s illegal. I’m a bit skeptical that they can condition me to believe that porn is boring, ’cause I’ve never heard of any other beta male like that, but I will investigate nonetheless. Have you heard of something called demisexual? Probably some people here would say that is also beta-conditioning, but I don’t know. There have been about a dozen times where I was interested in porn in my life, but it was only immediately after I interacted with a woman that I was attracted to.
I sort of made up my own definition of beta and alpha in my post. Basically I said that men who think they should have to provide for women in order to earn love are betas. I realize that doesn’t match with a lot of other people’s ideas of beta vs alpha.
The funny thing is that I’ve never been bullied after I hit puberty. I’ve never had trouble getting the respect of men since then, even though I’m not really interested in it. I think most people are stupid cunts (including women, although I’m still hoping for someone special) and I try to avoid them. Recently in one of my classes, another guy started calling me “sir”, which I found rather strange because I wasn’t expecting it, and I am only 23 years old. But I am terrible with women. I think sometimes the women are interested in me when they see me, but I usually blow it when I open my mouth. I got a few offers in High School because I was too shy to open my mouth and say stupid things. But I turned them down, because some were fat, and some were ugly, and I thought they had horrible personalities. The first offer I got was from a decent looking girl when I was 12, but when she made a hand motion which was supposed to show that she wanted to give me a blow job, the only thing I could think of was that she was trying to tell me something about brushing her teeth. I was actually very depressed when I lost my virginity, because I was looking for emotional intimacy but couldn’t find it, so I figured I may as well at least have sex with a pretty girl if I can get it.
When I lost my virginity (if you can call it that), I was flaccid, like I said in a previous post. But somehow the girl (I thought she was cute) didn’t seem to care, and she held my hand walking down the street after we had sex, and said cute things to me, although I’m sure it was the worst sex that she has ever had. Doesn’t sexual impotence show that you’re not alpha? Why did she still like me? I don’t get it.
I guess college women are pickier than high school women, because I didn’t get any free offers after high school. I tried PUA and I hated it in High School (although it worked), so I’ve been mostly avoiding women since then. I had a year-long relationship with a German doctor who was very kind to me, as I mentioned in a previous post.
My ring finger is a quarter-inch longer than my index, and my index finger is a quarter inch longer than my pinky. Does that make me half-alpha? I was never as strong as most of the jocks, but I was stronger than nearly everyone who wasn’t a jock.
If the conditioning men get as children is really so damaging, then shouldn’t men try to leave western countries if they can? I think even if you’re a confident male, you’ll probably be happier in a place where people don’t think you’re evil because of the way you’re born. Do you think trying to go to Russia is a good idea? I’m trying, but I’m really horrible at job interviews, so I’ve blown a lot of interviews for English teaching positions in Russia. There is one school who appears to want me, although they have not sent me the official letter of invitation yet. Maybe employers don’t like me because I’m honest (I admit that I have very little work experience and I’m a little nervous about the position, and that I dislike people), and I don’t like kissing ass. Maybe I should try lying like everybody else for my next interviews.
March 16th, 2015 at 11:56 pm
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