Forge the Sky:
The heart of all this is: in a woman’s mind, humans have three genders. Women, alphas, and betas. The problem is, it’s difficult to distinguish between the latter two as there are no clear biological markers; a few un-fakeable traits like height and muscularity give an indication, similar to how long hair tends to indicate a woman, but not infallibly so.
But women have different relationships with them. To women, betas are friends, helpers, co-workers, employees, servants; unless related by blood, they are practical beings only. There is no romance to them. They are useful, fun, maybe even someone to be a little affectionate toward so long as they remain useful, but they have no deeper self, no soul, no mystical thing to bind to.
Alphas are something else entirely. They are actually people – people drenched with desire, romance, spirit. Him, she can respect. In greater cases even worship. It matters little how well he performs objectively, so long as he does nothing to make her doubt her assessment of him as alpha. If he does perform, she admires and praises his performance – but she’s doing that about something or another regardless, even if she’s gushing about how he bought her a bag of skittles.
No woman will stand beside a beta as he faces, and succumbs to, death. Not unless it’s convenient, or she would be shamed otherwise. It simply would not make sense for her to do so. Would you hold your employee’s hand as they lay dying? Only if they had a fatal accident right in front of you. Past that, condolences to the kids.
Men see two genders. Men and women. Better and worse, more and less attractive, but no fundamental difference. Without being trained in a (for us) counterintuitive mindset, we will by default project our understanding of gender upon women. And so we try to improve our beta game, instead of flipping the script.
The blue pill is miserable because it is learned helplessness. From within, it is the cracking of an invisible whip, punishment meted capriciously and without time or reason. There is no pattern or method to the blue pill man’s pain.
FTS must’ve been reading my mind this week because his comment made a perfect segue into what I’ve been developing this week. The most salient part of this comment, I thought, was “Without being trained in a (for us) counterintuitive mindset, we will by default project our understanding of gender upon women.”
This was a good observation because there are intrinsic parts of the male psychological firmware that the Feminine Imperative picked up on long ago and deliberately co-opts to better aid in optimizing women’s control of Hypergamy.
From the utility-need side of Hypergamy, this mostly manifests in various forms of serviceable security. The Beta Bucks aspect of Hypergamy can be distilled to a need for security, protection, and a certainty that a woman and her offspring will be insured against any uncertainty. Every psychological and sociological dynamic that contributes to feminine-primacy keys on this need for existential certainty. The War Brides dynamic, the evolution from old-order chivalry to modern feminism, and now the social / legal handicapping of men to ensure that feminine-security certainty above all other considerations are all manifestations of this need.
The Feminine Imperative learned long ago that men’s innate protectorate instinct for the feminine was its second most valuable means of masculine control – the first being men’s ‘always on’ sexual impetus. Thus pairing the two as a means of control is a simple deductive proposition for the imperative. The rudimentary connection being, “protect the woman and I get sex.”
This is the unspoken exchange that’s part of our evolutionary past. Men are nothing if not deductive (yet creative) problem solvers, and women have used this to their hypergamous advantage since our hunter-gatherer beginnings.
This is what confounds modern men under the auspices of our present feminine-primary social order. We’re emphatically told that women “never owe men sex“, yet the latent message is, and has always been, “but, if you perform to her satisfaction, she might be more inclined to give you sex.” Carrot to pull the cart, I know, but this mental algorithm is a sociological buffer for women – exclude the sexually unworthy, but leave an acceptable caveat in order to leverage the possibility of sex with those who are still useful in providing security.
Bear this in mind the next time you read a story about a savior White Knight who was beaten to a bloody pulp for his effort to protect a woman from the “predations” of some Alpha(s) she likely wants to bang anyway. Men will project, by default, our own gender interpretation onto women, and sometimes pay the price for it. Betas believe the feminine-primary, equalist advertising that men and women are functional equals while still force fitting an expected, old-order, male-protectionism (completely based on an unequal state presumption) into that belief – often at their own expense.
Invisible Men
While I disagree that there are no distinct physical and cultural markers that women use (sometimes subconsciously) to distinguish Alpha men from the bulk of Beta men, I strongly agree with the distinction and characterization Forge the Sky makes with how women regard Beta men.
The vast majority of men are sexually invisible to women, but all males are visible in terms of their utility to women and the role those men are expected to play in deference to women’s solipsism.
There’s an important difference in that visibility with respect to men and women we need to consider.
I expect that female readers will trot out the “ooh, ooh, men do it too” counter that women are invisible to men who don’t see them as a sexual prospect. That may be the case, particularly for mature women convinced they should be sexually viable into their 50s, however, those women’s functional utility is never an issue for men. Neither is it an article of attraction for a man. As much as a feminine-centric culture would like to convince women of the opposite, men simply don’t factor a woman’s provisional utility into their attraction equation.
Invisible men never become visible to women until either those men intrude on a woman’s’ awareness or she has a specific utilitarian need of him. At this point, whether due to arousal / attraction awareness or her specific need (usually protection or security insurance), that man must perform to prove his maleness. He must qualify for her visual acknowledgment of him.
Over prolonged periods, this invisibility, and the fear of having his insistence rejected, can influence men’s overall perception of women and their intergender interpretations. Invisible men tend to confuse a woman’s utility interests in him as genuine indicators of interest (IOIs). The Feminine Imperative prepares for this ‘mixed message’ with a constant, self-perpetuating social narrative that tells the invisible men they are never, under any circumstance, owed a woman’s intimacy – it is always a gift, a reward, for her approval.
Despite this aspect of their social conditioning, the Invisibles still read more into those IOIs and perceive that a woman’s attraction is a genuine extension their own serviceability. This is the foundation of the Savior Schema. Much of what the manosphere considers sexual ‘thirst’ is a direct result of the scarcity mentality that results from an Invisible becoming an unexpected service-providing option for a woman.
Invisible men become more compliant when women’s utility needs make them visible. They confuse their use with genuine appreciation and desirability.
If we consider the 80 / 20 rule of the sexual marketplace and figure that 80% of Beta men are sexually invisible to women we get a broader perspective of how the gender landscape has evolved in an era where women’s security-side needs are planned for and met with a relative degree of certainty.
I had a teenage kid I used to consult who related this story about how one of his nerdy friends had somehow spontaneously generated the interest of a girl who was an obvious two points above his SMV. His initial frustration was one of wonderment about how this guy could be ‘dating’ so hot a girl while he wasn’t bumping the needle with even the girls he thought were a point below himself.
His nerdy friend assumed the predictable self-righteous Beta position that some “special” girls just understand and appreciate guys like him in favor of the brutish jocks “society tells them they should like.” All this came two weeks before that year’s homecoming dance (and after-party), where she promptly left him to go dance and party with her girlfriends and their jock guy-friends for the rest of the evening.
This kid had served his utilitarian purpose of fronting the money for the evening, a limo, corsage, photos (of their group) and the bit of risky underage liquor he could manage. In spite of all that he still refused to make the connection of his being used for her purpose. Invisibles feel validated in their own manipulation because that utility made them visible (“do my homework nerd”) even if just momentarily. As bad as that extortion was, that brief moment of visibility implies the prospect that another woman in the future (a really special one) will also appreciate his utility and reward it with her intimacy.
Needless to say, this visibility differential becomes an internalized factor in men’s approach to women. There are ways an invisible man can make himself visible; all require effort and risk. As I stated before, a man remains invisible unless his physical presence and arousal prompts make him unignorable, his performance is outstanding enough to draw attention or he simply asserts his visibility towards that woman. Physical bearing and performance recognition being the Alpha Fucks side of the Hypergamy equation is an easy follow, but a man asserting himself and his personality is where the Red Pill and applied Game come into play. This prospect will always imply risk of rejection until such a time that an Invisible’s confidence supersedes his self-image as an invisible.
We had a long discussion in the last thread about the mindset of the MGTOW contingent of the manosphere and the sentiment of men wishing to remove themselves wholesale from the sexual marketplace. I understand this sentiment and I know men, like Advocatus Diaboli, who have legitimately recused themselves from the SMP, but it seems to me this want is the result of having been invisible to women for so long. They get to a point where they become invisible by choice.
The Third Sex
I can’t finish this essay without drawing attention to FTS’s first observation:
The heart of all this is: in a woman’s mind, humans have three genders. Women, alphas, and betas. The problem is, it’s difficult to distinguish between the latter two as there are no clear biological markers; a few un-fakeable traits like height and muscularity give an indication, similar to how long hair tends to indicate a woman, but not infallibly so.
After I’d reconsidered this I had to dig out my copy of Plato’s Symposium and pore through it to read the part where Aristophanes proposed that there were, in fact, three sexes (in primal times) that their all-male discussion collective ought to consider:
There were three sexes: the all male, the all female, and the “androgynous,” who was half male, half female. The males were said to have descended from the sun, the females from the earth and the androgynous couples from the moon.
A lot is being made of transgenderism recently and the fluidity with which people want to arbitrarily “gender-identify” borders on the ridiculous, but FTS’s observation has more implications than I think most are aware of. I’m sorry to go all philosophus on you, but I can definitely see parallels with the symbolism Aristophanes suggests and the female perceptions of the division of maleness FTS brings out here. Although Aristophanes would say that these primal beings split into gays, lesbians and heterosexual beings, I’d suggest that this primal awareness stems from a male understanding of the division of Alpha and Beta men and how women perceive them, visibly and non-visibly.
I covered this a while back in Queens, Workers & Drones:
Selective Breeding
So powerful is this sense of entitlement, so consuming and convinced of the correctness of their purpose is the feminine that women will literally breed and raise generations of men to better satisfy it. Hypergamy is cruel, but nowhere more so than in the relationship between a mother overtly raising and conditioning a son to be a better servant of the feminine imperative.
But to breed a better worker, the feminine imperative’s queens can’t afford to have any corrupting, masculine, outside influence. On a societal scale this might mean removal (either by disincentives or forcibly) of a father from the family unit, but this is the easy, extreme illustration. There are far more subtle social and psychological means that the imperative uses to effect this filtering – via mass media, social doctrines, appeals to (feminized) morality, the feminine is placed as the correct imperative while the masculine is filtered out or apologetically tolerated as vestiges of an immature and crude reminder of masculinity’s incorrectness.
Yet for all of this social engineering Hypergamy still demands satisfaction of women’s most base imperative, Alpha seed. The queens need physically / psychologically dominant drones – if just for a season and at their ovulatory pleasure. While beta workers are endlessly vetted in sisyphean tasks of qualifying for the acceptance of the feminine imperative, the Alpha drones live outside this shell; their qualifications only based on how well they satisfy the feminine’s visceral side of hypergamy.
The great irony of this social solution to hypergamy and long term parental investment is that the vast majority of the offspring of this arrangement would be raised to be better workers. Those betas-to-be boys must be insulated from the corrupting influence of the drones lest they devolve into the Alphas they crave yet cannot control. It may seem counterintuitive, to raise what should ostensibly be optimized genetic stock as a cowed, sometimes medically restrained, feminized beta males. However it is through this harsh conditioning that truly dominant Alphas must rise above. Essentially the genetic lottery isn’t won by women in such a social environment – it’s men, or the ones who rise above in spite of the conditioning efforts of the feminine imperative.
February 25th, 2015 at 10:42 pm
Rollo, can you money ever be an arousal component? I assume it is not always beta bucks. I guess I’m wondering what you mean by “his performance is outstanding” (like being good at fighting?). Surely financial success can be alpha and outside of beta bucks. I guess the trick is not being used as a tool financially – i.e. surrending your paycheck and having her be in charge of the finances like some chump. Of course, divorce laws make the beta bucks much more difficult to escape from, but as far as I understand it, not being ruined by her threatpoint of divorce could make you financially alpha. It may be that it’s what she can’t extract from you that makes it exciting.
Thanks
” As I stated before, a man remains invisible unless his physical presence and arousal prompts make him unignorable, his performance is outstanding enough to draw attention or he simply asserts his visibility towards that woman.”
February 25th, 2015 at 10:58 pm
lol. If your Alpha frame hinges on whether or not you hold a door open for someone, you’re doing it wrong.
Same goes with your masculinity.
Last comment section got swamped with rejects from Stormfront, this one seems to be overrun by the Try Hards.
February 25th, 2015 at 11:56 pm
Rollo, you need some RPW mods over here because I bet Tuffluv is a Fem Bluepill Troll. The writing style is so feminine you should ask for a handwriting sample and I will put a 50 sot right now that there are smiley faces in the dot over the “i” if you know what I mean.
Upthread it was explained that perhaps this is a bit binary. Every man is both Alpha and Beta and only the ratios differ and those ratios can be changed by learning game. Every man (and woman) is on a fuckability scale. However, as also pointed out upthread, men treat unfuckable women (i.e. the bottom 5% of women) with a great deal of respect while women treat unfuckable men (i.e. the bottom 85% of men) with a great deal of rude, malicious and calculated cruelty.
February 26th, 2015 at 12:37 am
I’m not saying that this discussion is not useful or illustrative, however, I will posit that once you can hold a door open for anyone (doesn’t matter who it is) and not have an internal debate over whether it’s Game/Red Pill/Blue Pill–or even give it a moment’s thought–you have officially arrived on the other shore to the paradise of No Fux Given.
February 26th, 2015 at 12:50 am
I am most likely to open a door from someone when I am approaching it from the hinge side as they approach from the latch side.
It gets me through the door more efficiently.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:26 am
Alphas walk through doors boldly, you never saw James Kirk hold a door did you?
February 26th, 2015 at 1:46 am
Jesus talk about a sidetrack.
Much ado about jackshit.
February 26th, 2015 at 2:14 am
Tuffluv,
Do you live and work in a high-traffic stairwell? How can you have such ‘door game’ as this?
February 26th, 2015 at 4:19 am
@Badpainter: I still think TuffLuv might be woman.
/thread.
– Over-usage of dude-bro talk.
– Hampster-style response to every single comment.
– Inability to comprehend rational points.
February 26th, 2015 at 7:31 am
Personally I reckon women don’t give a fuck about blood kin betas either.
February 26th, 2015 at 8:13 am
@melmoth
His door game is definitely on point.
February 26th, 2015 at 8:14 am
@SFC Ton
Hypergamy doesn’t care about blood relay’s.
February 26th, 2015 at 8:58 am
Thanks for the callout Rollo.
I’m stuck in the middle of IRL stuff right now, so I haven’t had a chance to read all the comments yet. They’re growing faster than I can read them. But a few thoughts about the original post.
First of all, coherent. Well done, this put things to the heart of the matter in a way I was trying to but couldn’t quite get to yet. (As far in the comments as I got, Sun Wukong was really nailing it as well.)
From the OP: This is what confounds modern men under the auspices of our present feminine-primary social order. We’re emphatically told that women “never owe men sex“, yet the latent message is, and has always been, “but, if you perform to her satisfaction, she might be more inclined to give you sex.” Carrot to pull the cart, I know, but this mental algorithm is a sociological buffer for women – exclude the sexually unworthy, but leave an acceptable caveat in order to leverage the possibility of sex with those who are still useful in providing security.”
This really brought it together for me: this is clear, classic manipulation tactics. Same as they use in any cult, same as they used to keep the prisoners docile and compliant in Auschwitz. Provide just enough hope in the face of desperation to keep the desired effort coming. In the case of a cult it’s a desire for acceptance. In the case of Auschwitz, survival. In the case of the SMP, it’s men’s persistent desire for sex/affection.
Society has gained great capital from this desire. Now it has overplayed its hand. The great danger here is not so much that this overplaying will not be corrected, but that it will be and most men will deem that sufficient. The great danger is that the FI corrects its overreaching, and backtracks to a reality that is (just barely) acceptable for most men, avoiding true change.
This pendulum has swung before, back and forth. The danger is that it will now swing back instead of being smashed or stilled. We’ll see if new forces, such as the communication the internet creates, can break the old cycle.
OP: “While I disagree that there are no distinct physical and cultural markers that women use (sometimes subconsciously) to distinguish Alpha men from the bulk of Beta men, I strongly agree with the distinction and characterization Forge the Sky makes with how women regard Beta men.”
I suppose I should soften this a bit. I was trying to say that determining whether a man is alpha or beta often requires a bit of effort (more than just looking at a woman to see if she has a vagina – the sole requirement of womanhood), not that it couldn’t be done – in many cases quickly. For some women tattoos, a harley, and a weight over 200 lbs seems to be all it takes.
I’ve read a few romance novels from curiosity, and they basically were an exercise in spoon-feeding the reader information that clearly demonstrated the alpha-ness of the male romance object. But I suppose, given women’s actual behavior, this might be less of a ‘determining alpha’ thing and more of an ‘optimizing hypergamy’ thing.
February 26th, 2015 at 9:16 am
Hey Rollo, don’t have anywhere to dump this article. You may have read it already. It kinda fits in with the invisibles topic. (nice=unattractive=unseen)
http://www.newsweek.com/study-finds-men-nice-women-not-other-way-around-261269?piano_d=1
I’m sure this kind of study would give your favorite Aunt a seizure.
February 26th, 2015 at 9:27 am
It’s so simple, but so complex. As I’ve been making my way to the other side, I’ve forgotten how Blue Pill I used to be.
Funnily enough, even from the time I was a little kid, one of my ‘weird’ behaviors was holding the door for people. Excessively. When all the other kids were going out for recess, I’d literally stand there holding the door until every single kid went through. I did this every day for years. By the time the last kids got out recess would almost be over. Even in high school I would just stand there holding the door for 5-10 minutes.
One friend I had used to get pissed off at me and yell at me when I did it. Didn’t understand why until years later. Basically: stop being such a bitch and disrespecting yourself so much, it makes you look pathetic. Have some dignity.
I used to be the confidant. Always there for support for my ONE-itis girls.
“My”….lol.
I wrote a lot of papers for this girl I had ONE-itis for. I don’t even remember half the shit I did but it was all based on the “Old Set of Books.” It was just endless supplicating and the end result was I went through my entire teens jerking off and didn’t even get a hug from a girl a single time. Nothing. Always was there if they needed Beta provisioning — never got jack shit in return. Nada.
One of the biggest lessons for me was seeing how well this one girl treated me. For years. And continues to. I’ve already explained how I want to see other girls and I don’t want a relationship. Despite that and all her ‘issues’ with me she’s never broken contact with me.
Over the years I’ve regularly forgotten her birthday despite her having sent me lots of very thoughtful things on mine. Lots of times over the phone I would just tell her straight up if I thought what she was saying was bullshit. I never thought about it. I just reacted honestly. If she was pissing me off I’d tell her she was pissing me off. I remember one time she was asking me about some thing that had happened with me and some other girl — she wanted to know who it was.
I told her it was irrelevant. Because it was. She insisted that it wasn’t. I just told her that I wasn’t going to tell her because it didn’t matter. And I said she was just making problems for herself by thinking that it mattered, because she was. Eventually she let it go and never brought it up again.
I’ve been real with her. “Real” in the sense of not putting up with any of her shit, and just being myself. A big part of that is her low SMV — I never got ONE-itis for her.
But I actually have appreciated the contact we’ve had. It’s strange. I have no desire to be in a relationship with her or to commit to her at all, but I want her to stay in my life.
It’s a double standard. And it’s always been that way. And it’s worked so far. Maybe the only reason it’s worked is because I genuinely don’t want to be in a relationship with her, and I’ve told her that, but I also said I don’t want to be in a relationship with any girl — which is true. But I’ve been honest in saying I still want her to be in my life despite me not being willing to get into a relationship with her.
It’s all on my terms, and it’s always been that way. I’ve controlled the frame from Day One.
The irony is her low SMV. The girls I got ONE-itis for, I never experienced that with.
I’m trying to apply my behavior with her to other girls that I’m really physically attracted to.
What’s funny is I really do like this girl I’m talking about. I just don’t want to be in a relationship with her. I want her to be in my life, but only on my terms. And more than once she’s threatened to leave and not talk to me anymore because she couldn’t handle it. I never put up any resistance and just was like “Okay, bye.” She never followed through on her decision to break contact with me.
When you take relationships out of the picture, it makes everything a lot clearer. When I realized that I don’t want to be in a relationship, because I enjoy having options, and it doesn’t matter if the girl is a 0 or an HB10 — I don’t want a relationship, period.
…when I realized that, things really started shifting in my mind.
I really cherish intimacy and connection with women. I really do. But it has to be on my terms: i.e., NO COMMITMENT TO A RELATIONSHIP. That’s about it.
In the few experiences I have had, I really did feel a great sense of intimacy and connection.
It’s just that it was short-lived. I was okay with hooking up and just experiencing something great and fun for one night and not needing or wanting it to be anything more than that. I actually prefer it, and I prefer it heavily.
A lot of TRP has been a process of becoming honest with myself and my urges. A lot of them are superficial: just lust. It’s just a sexual urge. And I see some girl I’m attracted to.
Being honest with myself = admitting I want to fuck her. That’s all it is. It’s been so long since I’ve had any ‘romantic fantasies’ I almost can’t even remember what it’s like to have them. Which is a good thing.
I’ve had a lot of fun with the girls I hooked up with. Yeah, it was rocky. I was anxious. But it was fun. And I’m GLAD they were one night stands.
I like moving forward. I don’t like feeling tied down. If I can have a night of fun and feeling sexually connected and I never see the girl again, all the better. I don’t want to deal with the hassle.
Funnily enough, or ironically enough, this has INCREASED my feelings of connectivity with women. Because it’s just more honest. If it’s only one night with no strings attached, and I’m aware of that, and I just want to get some nookie — awesome.
I actually realized that a long time ago. “Long” being maybe 5 years ago — after my first sexual experience I realized my anxiety was all based around the fear that the girl would expect me to commit to them, that they’d want to be in a relationship with me. And I didn’t want that.
I’ve been able to let myself go only when I was clear that there was no relationship on the table. No commitment, nothing — just having a good time.
That’s when I realized I’d love to do that with as many women as possible while doing my own thing. I’m still working on this. Been doing a little flirting lately after coming out of hermit-mode.
And I’ve been feeling a lot more free with sexually escalating. Even though for now I’m doing it just to have fun and get through some of my anxiety, vs. trying for real to get laid. Walking before I run.
But it’s nice. I feel no guilt. And I love how I can catch a girl eying me and give her a look back and smirk, and see her smile at me. Then turn around and do the exact same thing with another girl a minute or two later. Pretty girls are everywhere around here.
But yeah….that supplication stuff is completely outdated. We’re talking ancient history. I can’t even believe I used to do shit like that. Writing papers for girls that weren’t putting out AT ALL. Not even hinting that they were going to, or even give me a hug. Not even a Beta consolation prize of getting a hug or something. Seriously, fuck that.
I was giving this one girl I liked rides home every day from school. My friend asked me if she was blowing me or jerking me off. I said no, and he was like, “What the fuck? Well stop it. She should be doing something for you.”
I even remember her TURNING OFF THE RADIO because I had a CD in there that she didn’t like. Song started playing and she just turned it off. I did nothing.
I don’t know what I’d do now. Probably because I wouldn’t even allow myself to get in a situation like that in the first place, so I don’t have to expend any energy imagining what I’d do. It just isn’t going to happen. I’m different now, I see things differently, and something like that just isn’t going to happen to me anymore.
And with that attitude at your core, even if something like that DOES happen, you just deal with it effortlessly, because it’s an expression of who you are.
I always hated conflicts with people. I’d shrink away and get anxious. Just last month I got into an argument with someone, and instead of trying to see their point of view and be accommodating and understanding when they were just being a complete asshole to me…..I just told them to go fuck themselves, and then I left. Didn’t give them a chance to respond.
I never would’ve done that in a thousand years just a year ago. Heh.
I’ve also been either completely ignoring people that are trying to take advantage of me, or making it clear that I expect to be compensated for helping them.
I have fierce loyalty to close friends, which I only have a couple of. I’m glad to bend over backwards for people that have done a lot for me, and I have a history of reciprocity with. That’s always and only been men.
I have a double standard with that one girl I mentioned, and that’s worked beautifully. She’s done a lot for me, a real lot, more than my other friends ever did, but it’s different because she’s a girl that’s interested in me.
It’s just the way it is. That’s the ‘ugly’ stuff. It seems morally wrong. But it’s not about morals — it’s just the way it is.
This is what’s been taking me the most time to wrap my head around. But I will say that I feel like I’m completely honest with her. I don’t manipulate her. I’m just honest.
With girls I’ve had ONE-itis for, I think it’s a fear of being my true self, of being honest, because I feel like something is at stake.
My true self is not supplicating, people-pleasing, etc. That was NEVER true. I had those behaviors my whole life with EVERYONE because I thought I had to be that way for people to like me.
When I lost a lot of friends and realized nobody was appreciating all the time and effort I was giving out for free….my eyes started opening. Funnily enough even though I have fewer friends and have been more alone than I’ve ever been in my life lately (which is saying a LOT), I’ve never felt more emotionally stable or happier.
I’m paying attention to not letting people take advantage of me, and also letting TRP sink in. But yeah. Double standards — male-female relationships are not equal to male-male relationships. Equalism is a myth.
It isn’t a moral thing, like I said earlier. It’s just the way it is.
But I’m at a point now where it feels like I’m overthinking it to try to describe it all. When it actually is IN ACTION, in REAL TIME, it just feels like everyday life.
I didn’t know about TRP when I got with that girl, the first girl I was ever with, in that hotel room. I just didn’t get ONE-itis because she was very low SMV. Her personality and being very feminine was all she had going for her so she rocked that pretty hard — never fell in love with her, and never told her I loved her. I didn’t think that would be fair to her. So when she’d say she loved me, I’d say I couldn’t say that back to her, because I didn’t think it would be fair to her. Because I wasn’t in love with her.
But I’d add that I did care about her and like having her in my life. She told me to never tell her if I was hooking up with other girls. That if I wanted to, okay, but to just not say anything to her about it.
And that’s what I’ve done. Works for me. Men + Women =/= Men + Men. Male friendships and romantic male-female relationships operate on completely different dynamics.
This is why it’s nice to have Rollo explain it all. My head spins just thinking about it. I’ve experienced some of these things for sure, and seen them in real time, but I can’t put it into words or explain what’s going on.
I can’t believe how much I’ve changed even over just the past year. It’s really unreal. If you told me I wouldn’t have ONE-itis in the future and that women would feel like not that big of a deal to me, I would’ve thought you were crazy. Completely beyond my comprehension and even my imagination.
Now it’s changed. Cool. My life has definitely improved, and continues to improve, despite the challenges I’ve been facing. I feel more “whole” these days the more I’ve come to respect myself.
Big part of that has been reading this blog and realizing I was ruining my own life by even imagining supplicating to women, and trying to “get something” from them. Some kind of value to ‘fill the void.’
That void is feeling awfully small and almost nonexistent these days. Again….cool.
I only wish I could give other guys this mindset. It’s been a long, painful process for me so far — but as I’m making it to the other side, I’m forgetting the suffering that my life used to be.
TRP and Zen have a lot in common. I’m serious. This shit is the real deal. Maybe I’ve just read too many Zen koans. But the insane attachment to women causes immense amounts of suffering for men…and yeah, you could say “unplugging” is like a specific form of enlightenment. A treatment for a very specific hangup, which all these explanations for are VERY HELPFUL to combat the obsessive mindset most BP guys have about women.
I know I had that mindset. So TRP, especially presented here at RM (or really, only presented at RM, IMO)….really gets in there and systematically deconstructs all the obsessive questioning about the ‘mystery’ of women. If the men are willing and able to read and stick with it, that is. Having that thirst for truth is important.
As the saying goes, “Let go or be dragged”….
February 26th, 2015 at 9:37 am
david:
Yes, money can be an arousal component. But for it to be arousal and not strictly a “comfort” aspect, not beta bucks, the guy has to have a lot of money. I mean he needs to have a net worth of at least 8 figures. I mean Donald Trump level wealthy. At that point it can become an arousal factor, but it does have to be partnered with other things like ostentatious display of that wealth through clothing, houses, cars, material possessions, and extravagant living.
A law partner in an eastern megalopolis law firm pulling down around $400K annually is still beta bucks. (Now, that guy is likely to be arousing to many women, but it will because of his personality and willingness to push for what he wants, and perhaps other things — not because of his money.) A successful small business owner with 10+ employees and a profit of $250K annually is still beta bucks. A typical small town boy made good through some rental properties and a business, and is a millionaire on paper by age 28 is still beta bucks.
And yes, high earning men are a lot less likely to be completely financially devastated by divorce. Their assets insulate them from the most severe financial consequences. Most of these guys won’t go homeless. But they will lose a lot of money if they aren’t very careful. Where they get really hit is if the wife was a SAHM for a long time and then the divorce happens. Those guys pay alimony for at least a few years.
There are things men can do to protect their assets, and lots of it has to do with crafting good legal documents, and not legally marrying. But the law is catching up to this; and the current theory and policy is “women are partnering up with and having sex with these men; and so the men should ‘compensate’ them for that.”
Bottom line: If you’re supporting a woman, the law is finding ways to make you continue to support that woman at least until she can do it herself. The law will find ways to make you pay, one way or another. And it is about transferring resources from men to women, by choice (relationship and sex) or by force (courts, court orders, men with guns).
February 26th, 2015 at 9:54 am
@sjfrellc
“I don’t know if I recall correctly”
I appreciate your post.. and yes, even her affair is my fault, as are all of her post-separation problems, as are all of the struggles our children are going through as a result of the upheaval.
She is now on a quest to prove ALL of that, in court.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:10 am
@SFC Ton
I think it’s worse than that. I think mothers abuse sons who aren’t alpha enough for them.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:21 am
“@447
““Owwww, don’t be like Jerk-John,” (rant)
Dude, here’s another point where I disagree with the sphere.. just because the chick’s not fucking you, doesn’t mean the guy she is fucking is a jerk, asshole, etc.. Doesn’t mean that at all. The sphere has deluded itself greatly in this regard”
That is no even the main point – again, you make a (virtual) collective female imago and her (supposed) needs, wants and (unseen) actions your mental point of origin.
It is not important if “she” (any “she”) fucks/not fucks
a) a vampire billionaire Pharao
b) a scrawny accountant
c) her dildo
d) nobody at all / anybody in her neighbourhood
It’s not important if females utter through their mouth piece that they “dislike” something like that.
It’s not even that important to upset or subtly cause a little chaos in everyday life, although that is fun (and usually harmless fun, btw), too.
The important thing is
a) if she fucks/strongly signals to fuck ONESELF and goes through with it.
b) to save time, energy and money / not share beta bucks for free
Being a “loser” (aka non-respectful, non-sharing, dismissive) with women achieves all that and more, but the chief advantage is simply an enormous amount of saved minutes, dollars/euros and brain activity. Think complex, act primitive – a recipe for success.
If more men applied this consistently, things would get better for everyone.
1) For betas – because they could really shine in contrast, being a white-knight pussy would really be something “special” again. (Not that this would help them much, I guess…)
2) For players – because playing would be more normal, curing a host of other social ills that go along with current SMV-chaos.
For true alphas and apex-alphas everything stays the same anyway and because of their few numbers, their well-being is really nobodies concern anyway –> irrelevant minority of sexually “super-rich” with the problems that go along with that – like facing the super serious problem of deciding between different prospects’n’stuff.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:28 am
@melmoth
Tuffluv,
Do you live and work in a high-traffic stairwell? How can you have such ‘door game’ as this?
lol. Working in the same office building for 20 years. No chicks at my company. Seen hundreds of hotties and notties come and go at the other companies in the building over 20 years. Only interactions are in the lobby/hallways and the courtyard/parking lot/entry way. I go down to smoke once an hour, so do the math, quite a few doorway interactions. So, yes, I’m quite the authority.
Clarity is good. Look, like badpainter said, it’s just manners. Personally, as far as game, which I never really thought of it as until this discussion, I feel it’s just an easy excuse for close-quarters eye contact and vocal exchange, not to mention an inbound stroll to the elevator together and shared ride. As an afterthought, it is an opener (no pun intended). But, the real reason I have always done it is that it’s ingrained in me. And I don’t see it as supplicative at all, I see it as a display of my disposition as a gentleman who was raised right, and an acknowledgement of the differences in the sexes. And I mean what I say.. I will not hold the door for a man unless he’s right with me, and when a man or woman stands there and waits on me, holding the door, it pisses me off.. always has. To me it is a show of disrespect to hold the door for a man, as if he is a woman, or helpless in some form, if you will.
I never intended to make anyone who doesn’t believe holding doors is proper come over to my side.. only to point out that letting the door go accomplishes nothing. It’s those on the other side of the argument who think they are proving some kind of point, changing behaviors, making a statement with their actions.. and they are deluded. They’re just being rude, and that little hamster will only take it that far in her mind, or just be indifferent. If you think it makes her want to fuck you, you’re an idiot. Like I said before, first guy to accomplish this, please let us know.
Last thing I will offer up.. the chick I took on a date a few weeks back who gave it up.. I was in good form that night, very loose, never nervous, unrestrained. But I opened not only the restaurant door, but the truck door for her (getting in only), and it is ‘my opinion’ that those actions sealed the deal with her. She was the type of woman who clearly expected and appreciated old school decorum. If I had neglected these details in some quest to prove the point so many here are trying to make, I guarantee you fellas she would not have succumbed to me that evening. Yes, it was part of me qualifying for her affection. Like I said before.. you WILL qualify for her, boys. You’re either a bad boy, bad ass type, or you’re not. It can’t be faked, and trying to fake it will get you nowhere.
I do apologize to rollo for this becoming an overblown and practically pointless debate about door holding, but with all that’s been said, including the gay emasculation attempts (fags), no one has convinced me in even the slightest way that I should ever not hold the door for a woman. And furthermore, I do not believe for one second that any one of you, would NOT hold the door for a chick under certain circumstances. You can talk principles all day long, but in reality, you’re just lying. Last word you’ll hear from me on the subject.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:30 am
@447
“1) For betas – because they could really shine in contrast, being a white-knight pussy would really be something “special” again. (Not that this would help them much, I guess…)”
This has already happened.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:32 am
Clarification: In the middle-aged world.
February 26th, 2015 at 10:33 am
@blank,
Your comment about how the FI is invading everything and taking it’s brainwashing to newer and deeper levels hits home. Is there anywhere that the FI doesn’t rule? Hell it even rules my home. If I don’t follow the FI inside my own home the police will come and take me to prison.
I have found one group of men and women that despise the FI. Going so far as to banish feminists. Though I haven’t officially been able to join yet. One of my neighbors in this group has already tried to set me up with his post wall 35 year old single mother daughter. I had a good chuckle out of this. I’ve dropped my plates but in the last two months I’ve been with a 25 year old and a 21 year old. They were both much better LTR prospects and much much better fuck buddy prospects. If this is all that this group can offer me then I might as well just go back to spinning plates. Hell I’d rather be celibate then get into anything more then a ONS or five night stand with a 35 year old divorcée single mother.
And this post wall woman tried to brag to me about all the men who ask her out. I believe it as well. The levels of desperation in most men are beyond pathetic.
And women thinking that they are going to lead anything. It’s like they just can’t grow up. They want to play leader like they played house as children. Always with dad there to protect them and prop them up while they pretend. How can anyone take them seriously?
February 26th, 2015 at 11:24 am
Deti, I agree with you. I alwass wondered if it is still capable to legally structure a “traditional” marriage that makes divorce very unfavorable. Air tight prenups to prevent any theft of assets and children, etc. As a man who wants children someday, Im curious to see if their is a way to legally keep the frame and control firmly in my grasp. Thoughts or experiences anyone? We need a red pill law firm to help us raise a family haha
February 26th, 2015 at 11:47 am
@bigal,
Prenups are routinely thrown out by being modified by the judge. If you include anything about children your prenup is going to be automatically thrown out/modified. The women always gets the choice of how much she wants the children and has full power over fatherhood. They will not allow any agreement to the contrary. This has been researched and attempted already.
February 26th, 2015 at 11:47 am
Look, a game based on pre-courtly-love Chivalry. I couldn’t spot anyone opening doors for fair maidens though…
February 26th, 2015 at 11:52 am
Makes sense to me now Re: Tuff.
20 years with a BPD chick would have had to require an I.V. drip of Beta infusions pretty regularly.
February 26th, 2015 at 12:12 pm
@StringsofCoins
I heard they are regularly disregarded, sounds like there are no exceptions or success stories. Im a commercial contractor, so Im already extremely weary of contracts, especially unfavorable ones. Sounds like a real uphill battle. Is there a way to have kids without putting your life on the chopping block?
Dont want to hijack the thread here, if anyone has any good advice on structuring this, please let me know. Im red pill as they come now, but I still want to live in Texas and raise a family someday. Thanks yall
February 26th, 2015 at 12:22 pm
@bigal,
That question was what used to define the MRM. Now it’s just a bunch of whiny “equalists” trying to get men assigned the status of oppressed so I can not recommend the current MRM.
I have put considerable effort into trying to find a way to gain fatherhood while doing what I can to minimize the massive risk. Moving to a foreign country is a good choice. The Philippines seemed like the best bet for me. Cost to move, lose contact with friends and family, and adopt a new culture. Or you can pretend to be gay and pay for a surrogate. Pretending to be gay is essential as straight men aren’t allowed to be fathers without a woman’s permission. High cost though, ~$100,000. You can get a surrogate in several foreign countries to birth you a child at a cost between $15,000 and $30,000.
What I’ve chosen to do is to join the Mormon Church. Officially in 11 days. They have a strong patriarchy in my area. This may provr to be a mistake but since I would like to be a father and not be turned into a support slave I’m willing to believe in voodoo for the additional patriarchal support.
Of course internalize as much red pill knowledge as you can as AWALT and you’ve got to deal with them to some degree.
February 26th, 2015 at 12:24 pm
Meh.. she’s not really very crafty.. I was her savior and her fixer. My name here on this site comes from the irony that Tough Love is pretty much the only love I know how to give. It failed with her, in the end. My MO was pretty much oppressive rule, and that is pretty much what she wrestled from my grasp in the last 2-3 years of our marriage. To be fair, we both oppressed each other, and kept each other very close to the vest, which is technically the only reason we made it this far, other than good old — for the kids.
It didn’t hurt that I put us in a very comfortable place surrounded by a very respectable village, but still required that the family live modestly and honestly. Also didn’t hurt that she worked (extra income and less boredom/bitching). She really didn’t have a whole lot to complain about, though she did complain about her job as a teacher daily, and never had a break from little kids, which brought her joy and insanity at the same time it think. But in the end it was her sense of entitlement, and *especially* her blaming *all bad things* in her life on me, including her childhood trauma, the loss of her alcoholic mother, and her own character flaws, that did us in. I was helpless against the onslaught of that vitriol.
Yes, she tried to BP me and succeeded in some ways, but for the most part I stood my ground, which you can clearly see is part of my personality.
As an example, I succumbed to do to kitchen cleaning regularly, but that was mostly because I LIKE a clean kitchen and she’s sorta a slob.
Other than that, though.. the house chores ALL remained hers, and I did the oil changes, yard, fix-it shit, etc..
So, we were pretty old school. I never bought into all this ‘put an apron on’ bullshit.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:03 pm
@Rollo
Awesome point. The chivalric code of conduct really only applied to the nobility; not so much the peasantry. Knights routinely slaughtered, raped, pillaged the peasantry; they simply replaced the ecological niche that Vikings once held. I am sure most villagers screamed and fled in terror at the sight of a group of knights riding over a hill.
The whole concept originated the church trying to restrain knightly violence. Even the later notions of “Courtly Love” have no modern application; most nobles from birth were in arranged marriages. None of these codes applied to the vast majority of people. The modern chivalry of the 20th century was a misguided application of literary writings.
I am completely indifferent about opening doors for others; if they aren’t close enough behind me they can open it themselves.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:04 pm
I alwass wondered if it is still capable to legally structure a “traditional” marriage that makes divorce very unfavorable. Air tight prenups to prevent any theft of assets and children, etc. As a man who wants children someday, Im curious to see if their is a way to legally keep the frame and control firmly in my grasp. Thoughts or experiences anyone? We need a red pill law firm to help us raise a family haha
@BigAl —
Not really, no.
Pre-nups are most likely to be enforced by a court if they relate to pre-marital assets that are disclosed in full to the other spouse long before the wedding day, are kept separate during the course of the marriage, and if, in those cases, if the pre-nup itself was negotiated at arm’s length, with the other spouse having their own counsel, and concluded well in advance of the wedding day (i.e., at least a few months in advance). So, if you have a big pile of pre-marital assets, it’s worth looking into in your state to try to protect the distribution of those pre-marital assets if you get divorced.
Anything else, the pre-nup is likely to not be enforced — that includes distribution of marital assets (i.e., assets acquired during the marriage), alimony, child custody, child support. These things are decided by the court based on the facts and circumstances of the case, based on what the court considers to be “equitable”. The reason for this is that in most states, family law courts are not courts of law, but are courts of equity — the difference is that a court of law will enforce a contract absent duress or fraud, whereas a court of equity will only enforce a contract to the extent that the result of the enforcement is “equitable” in the eyes of the court. So a pre-nup that divests a spouse of all claims to alimony or marital assets, or tries to limit them in a way that the court thinks is unfair, will be ignored.
Anything related to children is decided by the courts without reference to any agreement between the spouses, because the standard for these decisions is “the best interest of the child” — so what the spouses may have agreed about it is irrelevant from the legal perspective.
The best way to “arrange yourself” for insurance in the case of a divorce is to have lots of money, have most of it outside the United States in numbered bank accounts, and be ready and willing to leave the US permanently by moving to a country without an extradition treaty if you see divorce coming and want to protect your money. Otherwise, you’re kind of stuck. Again, if you have a lot of pre-marital assets, by all means try to protect them with a pre-nup — it’s worth the cost of trying if your pre-marital assets are extensive. Otherwise, they’re not generally worth the time, money and aggravation.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:06 pm
@StringsofCoins
Hahaha, Mormons huh?
Don’t get me wrong; I’ve had Mormon neighbors and they’re generally happy, nice folks, but I don’t think I could join their cult just to have children and avoid feminism. Rather play the foreign card.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:06 pm
I’d like to add, that my sons coming of age was a huge trigger-point in the catastrophe.. maybe, just maybe this could help someone in a similar situation.
Her lack of a normal childhood and emotional immaturity due to arrested development due to her completely inadequate alcoholic mother, coupled with her being female, left her with absolutely no understanding of the teenage boy dynamic. As they began to assert themselves, her only response was to reassert herself. She always talked to and treated them as if they were still 5 years old, and expected they would just ‘comply’, unconditionally, and she regularly (daily) did so in a bitchy, challenging tone. This didn’t work out too well. Because she lacked any finesse whatsoever, in response, when they didn’t like how they were being treated, they’d simply push her buttons and light her up, defy her in some way and cause her to flip, then that became their excuse for noncompliance.. then I’d be called upon to beat them down, and while a man should stand behind the authority of the mother, when she wields it so incorrectly and harmfully, it’s tough to do.. When I’d try to explain the concepts of showing a young man ‘faux respect’ and finesse to her, her response was invariably.. “they treat me this way because you taught them to, and they’ve seen YOU treat me this way (that blame again, always the blame).” To which i’d reply, yes, they’ve seen me treat you this way when you talk to ME like I’m 5, and don’t think I’ll let you get away with it next time, either. Still, the solution is for YOU, the ADULT, to modify your behavior and use more effective parenting skills.. don’t expect your sons to be more mature than you are. It was a vicious Mexican standoff and highly toxic. I refused to blame my sons for daily breakdowns I completely see as her fault. They were just being teenagers, and while I am a true disciplinarian in the old sense, this is where I drew the line.
Again, to be fair, she was an absolutely fantastic mother to kids under 10 or so. Makes perfect sense right? They are on her emotional level.
There’s just no fixing some shit, and I tried everything (long story). Roosh has a good article on “True Failure” vs. “Giving Up”. This marriage, our relationship, is a true failure from my side. It ended when I had completely run out of options and ideas. It might appear I gave up, but in truth, I was just beaten by a BPD woman.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
@Novaseeker
moving to a country without an extradition treaty
That’s a helluva trick there. Hard to run from the long arm of the empire. Just ask Edward Snowden.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:11 pm
Too late Strings, the infiltration into the Male Space that was the LDS has alreeady begun:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/john-dehlin-popular-mormon-podcaster-excommunicated-church-n303656
February 26th, 2015 at 1:13 pm
That’s a helluva trick there. Hard to run from the long arm of the empire. Just ask Edward Snowden.
Indeed, it is.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:14 pm
Too late Strings, the infiltration into the Male Space that was the LDS has alreeady begun:
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/john-dehlin-popular-mormon-podcaster-excommunicated-church-n303656
Yeah, my experience with Mormons is that they look more patriarchy than they are, and that in many families, wife is in command, even if she “leads from behind” in outward appearance.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:18 pm
When the Amish are assimilated by the Feminine Imperative then you will know the end times are upon us.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
From House of Cards:
Claire: Recalling Frank’s proposal:
“He said, ‘Claire, if all you want is happiness, say no. I’m not going to give you a couple of kids and count the days until retirement. I promise you freedom from that. I promise you’ll never be bored.”
Claire: He was the only one who understood me.
Frank Underwood from this series is alpha as fk.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:31 pm
“Clarification: In the middle-aged world.”
I agree, happens in the middle-aged world all the time.
That is: When women are beyond their best (–> saving the best) and are looking for the “pension days” with the option of cashing out. (–> cashing out).
Who wants that – IF there are other paths available?
________________________________________________
“.. only to point out that letting the door go accomplishes nothing. It’s those on the other side of the argument who think they are proving some kind of point, changing behaviors, making a statement with their actions.. and they are deluded. They’re just being rude, and that little hamster will only take it that far in her mind, or just be indifferent. If you think it makes her want to fuck you, you’re an idiot. Like I said before, first guy to accomplish this, please let us know.”
You confuse the mindset BEHIND not holding a door open with something like a “SLAM DOORS DIAMOND GOLD ROUTINE PACK $ 536 BUY NOW PUA MASTERCLASS EXTRA DEAL FUCK SUPERMODELS TODAY!!!11″-thing.
It’s the complete package of setting a “zero” value for “female without sexual access” in your head that gets you laid.
Not the individual act of holding the door or not.
It is the pinnacle of non-needyness.
As holding the door will not increase chances of real alpha fux-reaction – you get the same results anyway, but save the time and energy that goes into holding doors, carrying boxes, fixing computers and all the other shit.
Of course – anybody is free to hold open all the doors in the world – but then please STOP complaning about modern female behaviour, because “you” (as in “general”, not talking about quoted poster) enable and reward it by being supportive to those females.
You get more of what you subsidize – and being friendly, helpful and nice to females not granting sexual access supports and broadens the FI’s grip over society, because all females are involved in it. (At least all that count, and even more so, every “nice mother” telling her daugthers to never let go of “emancipation”; the “nice old lady” that always voted pro left-progressive and supported her daugther’s divorce… etc. pp.)
______________
@Chivalery:
A knight being “respectful” for the “ladys” is the equivalent of a special forces guy on field tour not real-raping the young daugther of the house his team just stormed – although he could easily do so.
Or an Afghan Warlord smiling and opening the door (there we go with the doors again :-) ) for the female western journalist who can feel the hairs on her neck raise when she realizies he and his men could gang-bang her for months before she is rescued – if anybody comes to her rescue at all.
NOT
APPLICABLE
IN
REAL
LIFE
(of 99% of the western population)
February 26th, 2015 at 1:40 pm
@Rollo,
So another feminist was ex communicated by the church? If you read that article closely you will note that this guy was making statements that women should be given the priesthood. Which is a bunch of religious talk for saying that the church should recognize women as just as high on the social religious scale as men. Not going to happen. Most ex communications happen because of adultery.
I know many Mormons as my mother’s half of my family is entirely Mormon except for us. I’m aware of what I’m doing and the reasons I’m doing it.
When I was using online dating a bit over a year ago now I discovered that the cute, thin, girls who would answer questions like “a girl who has slept with 100 people is:” “a bad person” or “should men be the head of the household?” with “yes” had one thing on common. They were all Mormon.
My demographics are surely different then most of the rest of you.
The patriarchal order is established pretty strongly here. Children obey women, women obey men, men obey God. And God’s word is the word of this elderly married man who is called the prophet.
I have far more knowledge of this stuff. The entire religion constantly reinforces that social order though.
I will see how it goes and continue to evaluate the cost/benefit of this decision.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:42 pm
Rollo,
Behavior psychology (rational male game) = newtonian determinism
___________ psychology = quantum mechanics?
is there something deeper (irrational) we may be missing here?
February 26th, 2015 at 1:51 pm
I will give another example, one I consider to be one of my best game moments although no lay was involved:
I was driving through a mountain region in fall/winter last year, it was raining cats and dogs.
I was very content because I had just finished an important work project the day before that I liked very much. I was enjoying a cigarete and drinking a fresh coffee, just contently driving through the mountains/hills home, watching the rain etc and feeling content.
Some kilometers/miles away from the last highway ramp right in the middle of nowhere, I noticed a young female + car, standing in the rain and holding out her thumb.
Before I could even ponder on this ultra-cliche-like situation, the moment had passed and I drove on without slowing down.
No hold-up, no dirty seat, no strange moments of “helping” a (likely) young slut who couldn’t take care of her car like a responsible adult – I was just on my way and feeling great – right thing to do.
With a fond smile, I still remember the look on her face when I was making brief eye contact while driving on.
That right there, this stupified look, was the look of the FI nipped in the butt.
I’m pretty sure some idiot chump helped her sometime that evenening, driving her around to wherever she wanted to go in that nowhere, listening to her (likely) stupid prattle and pissing away his time, money and good will for a woman that is simply used to getting help from all the nice utility betas around everywhere because she had a nice, slim body.
There was no trimphalism or anything like that involved, I can not pinpoint some great feeling or anything special at all – it was just a short, irrelevant passing moment where a little glitch happened in the usual course of everyday life for her. Just a little glitch in the matrix.
Quite nice, another job well done by citizen 447.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:51 pm
@Nova,
Yes anyone who doubts AWALT is a fool. I’m just looking to lessen my risk of having future children taken from me.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:54 pm
I have adopted the red pill ideas, but I find I still have blue pill desires. I’m intentionally spinning plates for the first time, and while I like all of them, internally I just want to settle down with one person. Being loyal, or loving someone as myself are values that make up who I am. I’m not sure I can fully adapt to reality, where my best course is to look out for myself. Is there some idea I’m missing here?
February 26th, 2015 at 1:55 pm
@Bromeo:
http://therationalmale.com/2014/07/03/the-proposal/
There is no topic I haven’t covered.
February 26th, 2015 at 1:58 pm
@cyfox
http://therationalmale.com/2014/09/29/a-new-hope/
February 26th, 2015 at 1:58 pm
this opening doors debate would be more interesting reframed as “Is cunnilingus beta?”
of course Rollo has that covered somewhere
February 26th, 2015 at 2:06 pm
@Rollo
Yea, I had read that long ago, but with all the hype of the season 3 release I started watching clips and remembered the one above. I actually re-read your link before posting the quote. Classic stuff.
@447
“Before I could even ponder on this ultra-cliche-like situation, the moment had passed and I drove on without slowing down.”
That was a pretty bad story… I was waiting for you to stop, game her and smash her in the rain. If you don’t, someone else will. It’s like you screwed yourself over from a lay just because of principle in thinking your somehow above and better than the FI.
February 26th, 2015 at 2:37 pm
@cyfox
I struggle with the same thing, and as I see it the problem entirely centers around LTR as goal instead of consequence of a well lived life. Until you can truly dismiss it as a goal and replace it with other goals of your own design, you won’t have true outcome independence. Without that independence, you will need her more than she needs you. The failure cascades from there.
Removing the BP LTR as goal from your mind is incredibly difficult though, and that sounds like what you’re up against.
February 26th, 2015 at 2:55 pm
On another note I’m getting quite a few PMs on the red pill forums from men asking about how to find a RP therapist. Anyone have any tips here?
I think red pill life coaching to replace therapy for men could grow into a lucrative opportunity moving forward. In a sense that’s what Rollo’s books are. Men need fathers no matter what the FI claims.
February 26th, 2015 at 2:58 pm
If they arent intimitated by the penis metaphorically speaking (Maybe a little literary), you have low worth.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
@sun and @cyfox
Look guys, don’t be chickenshits. If LTR is your desire then let it happen. I have stated many times I don’t regret it at all, and my situation had all kinds of problems. I have yet to feel the worst pain from it all, that is coming. Still you will find I don’t regret it because I KNOW it’s what I wanted and asked for.
Just use what you’ve gained here to manage it the best you can.
Love completely, but never trust completely. Hide some fuckin money for christ sake. Make sure she works a job at least after the kids reach school age (or your stuck with alimony as well as child support). Apply all LTR game, and if you see it failing, ACT.. don’t retreat and wait for the bomb to go off.
But really, this is what I don’t get about the manosphere. For all it’s figured out, where is the solution? The suggestion that we just all turn playa is no solution at all. Far too many are simply not built for that psychologically, and more often physiologically.
I think really the best advice is choosing a partner with a lower SMV. There’s a downside to that, but its a much safer bet. Mine was higher, and I managed her fairly well with my natural game, but I could have done better with some refined knowledge, which you now have.
This is no different then anything else your dad was talking about when he told you, you’re a man, nothing is easy, you have to take what you want, don’t expect it to always work out, but die on your feet instead of living on your knees. Don’t shrink from your desires just because you’re afraid.
Life ain’t over for me, gents. It’s just started over.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
@StringsofCoins
Only by dumb luck did I find one, and of course he doesn’t see it as “Red Pill”. He just acknowledges that most of the modern psychological profession has been overrun by rampant feminism and misandry harmful to male psychology. Unfortunately therapists like this face the reality that advertising those views openly can be damaging to their business and ultimately might cost them their professional credentials. Sad but true.
If I can come up with criteria that can help identify such therapists I’ll be sure to post it here. In the meantime the best advice I can give is to only consider male therapists and to ask them directly about their views on feminism and its effect on modern males. That will tell you a lot about them right off the bat.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:23 pm
@Rollo, In “A New Hope” you wrote: “Throw that hope away and understand that you can create hope in a new system – one in which you have more direct control over.” I’ll keep reminding myself, thank you.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
@Sun Wukong. Yes, that is the difficulty. If others can do it, so can I.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:40 pm
If your life’s ambition is dependent upon the participation of a woman it’s time to reassess your ambitions.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:48 pm
@TuffLuv
Look guys, don’t be chickenshits.
Says the guy that let a BPD harpy ruin his life for 20 years instead of growing a spine and leaving.
You’ve made it abundantly clear throughout this thread that you don’t grasp what you’ve read in the ‘sphere. Here, let me make this simple for you since you need shit spelled out for you:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/08/19/the-cardinal-rule-of-relationships/
“In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.”
A man who has spent his life internalizing LTR-as-goal is going to suffer from oneitis and as a consequence surrender power in an LTR. Full stop. The only way to to change this is to learn to internalize a totally different way of thinking. While this doesn’t mean you can’t ever have an LTR, it means LTR as goal must be removed.
A woman should be a complement to an already wonderful life. An LTR should be a consequence of a well-lived life. This is not a case of cowardice or fear. It’s simply the logical conclusion to draw from all the information presented. So fuck right off with calling me a “chickenshit” for making a rational decision, cupcake.
February 26th, 2015 at 3:55 pm
Cyfox….
Uh…..you’re missing everything. Kill the beta…..don’t live the life of a betard. You will regret it. You already suspect what you’ve been dreaming is fucked up or you wouldn’t be reading this and asking questions. It doesn’t pay the dividends you’ve been conditioned to expect. Stick with your real gut, not what seems wonderous.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:02 pm
Oh the patronizing is just deafening.
You guys are plenty full of yourselves.
You act like this shit is rocket science or something. It’s not. You also act like it can be applied in black and white in the real world. Nothing could be more false.
I have one response for both you and rollo.
KIDS.
a) Fatherhood is a very worthy ambition
b) Guess what? It requires the participation of a woman
c) Harpy ruined my life? Are you kidding me? She gave me 3 beautiful children, cupcake. Two strapping sons. You got any of those? Didn’t think so.
You want to make it your purpose to tell the men of the world, forget it, you can’t have it, just give up before you try it and get hurt. Pathetic, if that’s your answer.
I say go for it, if you are man enough.. And if you let FEAR of a woman stop you, then you sir, are a chickenshit. Or, you just don’t want kids, which is perfectly fine and respectable.
Just, FYI, the wife was always secondary. I considered leaving many times. If YOU grasped all you’ve read about the way of things for the man nowadays, it would be easy for you to conclude why I made the choice time and again to not leave, and exhaust all other options.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:17 pm
Sadly TuffLuv won this, y’all been shamed as chickenshits who didn’t man up to have kids, hookingupwrong
get those aprons out boys
February 26th, 2015 at 4:20 pm
Ill be sure to bring it up with my wife of 18.5 years and my teenage daughter as soon as I get home.
Being a breeder doesn’t make you a winner. I wonder if Tuff would have the same disposition if his wife had left him earlier, kicked him out of his own home, kept his kids and brought the player into their bed?
February 26th, 2015 at 4:20 pm
@tuff,
First off my vote is that you are a troll and likely a reincarnation of a past troll.
However giving you the benefit of doubt here are some questions for you. You have three children, you claim. How are you involved in their lives and the decisions about their lives now that your wife cuckolded you and left you for a new replacement father for them kids?
You paying spousal support?
Joint or sole legal custody?
Joint or sole physical custody?
How you liking that child support that has replaced your actual participation as a father?
Men cannot be fathers in a matriarchy, only boyfriends. Since the patriarchy has been destroyed, patriarchy being the institutions that place controls on female sexuality to create fatherhood, proposing that men “choose” fatherhood is laughable and could only come from a BPer or a woman. Either way nobody needs to hear your misguided opinions here.
Here’s a nice free eBook you can read to better educate yourself on fatherhood under our current dynamics. Though this was written in 1999. Things have only gotten worse since.
http://www.fathermag.com/news/Case_for_Father_Custody.pdf
February 26th, 2015 at 4:21 pm
The more you suffer, the more it shows you really care, right?
February 26th, 2015 at 4:23 pm
@TuffLuv What I am learning here, is that the LTR should never be your life goal. I think you are missing that point. Even if you choose to be in an LTR and have kids, your mindset should not be on the LTR with your partner, it should be that you are having kids, and that you have a purpose outside of this sphere.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
@Tuff, so lets see if I got this right. At 23, after your heyday sexual buffet starting in your sophomore year of high school, you married the BPD girl who would help you with your worthy ambition to have kids?
When did she get pregnant with your first kid?
February 26th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
How much of the reason do you think Tuff’s wife left him had to do with his noble, steadfast dedication to their marriage?
February 26th, 2015 at 4:37 pm
Well, I was gonna cut out for a while, but since y’all love to challenge me.. my answers are forthcoming.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:41 pm
Still I think TuffLuv is woman masquerading as a stoic blue pill man.
But kudos to shim for the highly effective distraction, clearly an industrious journeyman troll striking for master.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:42 pm
@TuffLuv
I will now point out how piss poor you are at comprehension and how hopelessly owned by the FI you are:
You guys are plenty full of yourselves.
You, on the other hand, are a paragon of self-restraint.
You act like this shit is rocket science or something. It’s not.
We agree here. It’s not. However, you fail to be able to apply it in a logical fashion as simple as it is. That speaks volumes about you.
You also act like it can be applied in black and white in the real world.
I never said or implied that. Reading comprehension fail.
You want to make it your purpose to tell the men of the world, forget it, you can’t have it, just give up before you try it and get hurt. Pathetic, if that’s your answer.
Failure to comprehend when I said that it’s not that you can’t have an LTR but that it must be removed as an ultimate goal. Learn to read for comprehension before you respond.
I say go for it, if you are man enough..
FI call to “man up” and be the sucker in an LTR.
Just, FYI, the wife was always secondary. I considered leaving many times.
Yeah, I have a friend that’s “considered” leaving his harpy too. Bet you accompanied it with many an ultimatum. Nice frame there, bitch.
Harpy ruined my life?
Yep, sure did. Otherwise you would have no need to be here. You’d have been happily married still. Way to hamster your way around the results though.
Fatherhood is a very worthy ambition
I never questioned that, dipshit. Nobody here ever questions that. While it may not be “for them”, they totally respect guys it is for. Otherwise, how the hell would any of us be here? Again, failure in reading comprehension. Seriously, did you ever pass an english class?
You got any of those? Didn’t think so.
Tell you what I do have: all the money I didn’t lose to alimony/child support, all the sanity I didn’t hand over to a BPD harpy, and the chance to make children that I don’t lose with a woman that isn’t a psycho without being burdened by previous mistakes. Those are things you don’t have, and I don’t envy you for it.
Thinking that I envy your children from a psycho bitch is pure solipsistic projection. Fail on all points, sweetheart. I’ll give you a 1/10 for your efforts though. You tried.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:42 pm
Where to begin? Rollo.. I didn’t say it does make you a winner. But there are many young men in the sphere who are searching for the answer to the question, no? How do I have that? or, what’s the right way to go about it? It’d be a shame if they concluded the only way to win the game is to never play. If men give up on procreation, the war is already lost.
@Strings
have already read that, and will get back to you shortly.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:43 pm
@Rollo,
There are so many harsh truths to accept when taking that pill. One of them I had to accept was that my marriage could have succeeded had I gone in with the mindset that I was going to cheat on my wife. And then proceeded to do so.
I mean nobody tells men that cheating on your wife can make you far more attractive then being the doting BP husband I was conditioned to be. Hell I would have been more attractive just being the raging psychopath she tells her new friends that I was.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:50 pm
@rollo
“I wonder if Tuff would have the same disposition if his wife had left him earlier, kicked him out of his own home, kept his kids and brought the player into their bed?”
I am partially in that position. Not the player but some other chump, with my daughter. My disposition is my disposition, and it is on display here. There are things we can and can’t control. Fortunately, I have the means to remain in her life, and intend to fight tooth and nail to maximize that ability. Shall I just sit in a corner and cry?
“@Tuff, so lets see if I got this right. At 23, after your heyday sexual buffet starting in your sophomore year of high school, you married the BPD girl who would help you with your worthy ambition to have kids?
When did she get pregnant with your first kid?”
As I stated, I knocked her up (was in ’95). No, children were not my ambition at the time. Nowhere did I state that they were. What I have stated is that it is impossible to have any regrets, because I love my children, and they have given me more fulfillment than anything in my life.
The rest is accurate. Yes rollo, I fucked like a rabbit beginning my sophomore year in high school. Not a high N count, 6 girls from age 15-18, but all I did was skip school, fuck, and jam with my band. You can believe it or not. I really don’t care.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
@StringsofCoins
Hell I would have been more attractive just being the raging psychopath she tells her new friends that I was.
You know when guys tell their friends stories about who had the most psycho bitch in their past, it’s typically just oneupmanship about who’s been through the worst. I just realized with how you phrased it that women doing it are actually humblebragging about their failed relationships.
“Well he wasn’t totally Alpha, but he was at least Alpha enough to be psycho!” and the girls all approve partially of her taste in men.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:58 pm
@strings
“How you liking that child support that has replaced your actual participation as a father?”
And to answer a couple other similar queries in one shot..
My oldest (son) is 19 and a freshman in college. Next is 16 1/2 (son) and a junior in HS. Then my daughter (7).
This is where I’m luckier than most. First of all, psychologically, my sons have all but escaped. They are right there eye to eye with me. They will never be stolen from me, never be re-fathered.. they are mine, and they are fast becoming men.
My daughter is a different story, and she is one awesome child. If not for her, I’d already be long gone from here. She is ALL that matters now.
Again, I am fortunate to a degree. The guy my wife (yes she’s still my wife), is now engaged to, is a decent guy. He’s not the playa she had the affair with. He’s a former divorce rape victim who has been alone now 13 years, and is ready to settle (for a crazy bitch apparently). Nevertheless, he’s not an ass, he’s not a lot of things, and he and I are on semi-decent terms. Sure he’s muscling in on my territory as a father, but he has been fair to this point. It stings, guys, a lot. But it could be much worse.
The support obligation is (so far) not too bad, because my 16 year old stayed with me. Next year and a half, she pays me for him, and I pay her for the daughter, which cuts my obligation in half basically.
Things will suck in 2 years. But I will endure.
February 26th, 2015 at 4:59 pm
Don’t live like Betard.
ANY woman is replaceable. They burn out relatively fast. They are each somewhat unique but expendable. It is easy to see this if you reflect honestly on how many different women you have wanted to bang.
Betard cannot accept this reality because this reality threatens what Betard identifies with, it threatens his self identity. One at a time, multiple women typically slip into the role of “sole mate” in Betards mind. Betard pursues individual women sequentially with the same futile hope of fulfilling Betards LTR fantasy. The first few attempts should be enough red pill for Betard to wake up from the dream he worships, but usually it isn’t. He is lost in his dream. Betards false hope is constantly being reconditioned by bullshit fantasy stories, movies, TV shows, ads, magazines, religion, etc., etc. and reinforced by his sexual physiology mixed with fantasy. Betards false hope quickly becomes his reality of how it “should” be or eventually will be. He is chasing the end of the sexual rainbow on a self crippling quest for somthing that does not exist. He may land some little bitch who is scamming him for provisioning and naturally end up trapped in a disastrous and very different LTR than what he is conditioned to expect. Such an LTR is guaranteed to be very costly for Betard.
LTR can be a good thing for kids and mutual benefit but only if the man pursues it from a well planned pragmatic functional perspective and IF the female has qualities that support HIS plans.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:02 pm
@TuffLuv
The guy my wife (yes she’s still my wife), is now engaged to, is a decent guy.
Hahahaha, hoo boy.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:03 pm
@rollo
“How much of the reason do you think Tuff’s wife left him had to do with his noble, steadfast dedication to their marriage?”
It had a lot to do with it. She knew I’d never give up, and yes that gave her power over me. She has always used the kids against me to some degree.
Seriously, I understood the concept of “cheat or be cheated on”, after the first few bitches fucked me over back in high school. I just never had the disposition for it. Yes, I’ve always been a pussy in that regard, but I won’t say I’ve never cheated.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:04 pm
I’m going to predict there’s an incoming condescending “You won’t understand till you have your own” coming from TuffLuv to me.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:08 pm
@Sun
Much transpired before she met this guy. And we were legally divorced at the time. The reason that is no longer true, is that she appealed and won, and decide to do the whole drag me through the mud thing. No, it was not his suggestion. It’s a little histrionic bitch lawyer, and her miserable divorcee friends who provoked that action. He just wants to marry her. He’s established, financially stable, etc.. I’m not saying he’s an angle, just that things could be a lot worse. We have met over beers multiple times, had conflicts multiple times, and I’ve concluded this..
I don’t want to run him off.
You shoulda seen the bitch when there wasn’t some other chump around to keep her in line. Talk about worrying about my daughter. Glad that shit ended quick.
Understand?
February 26th, 2015 at 5:09 pm
@Tuff looking at your comment history, you have the very Beta habits of:
Writing long introspectives to tell yourself a story that you’re going about things correct.
You use vernacular that pedestalizes every woman you describe (even your ex when she’s not screaming at you).
Your overall understanding of intergender dynamics stopped at 23 (did the girl get pregnant before you married?) and your attempts to date again at 43 are based on an adolescent social skill set.
Your evangelism for Blue Pill idealism here (you’ve mentioned women ‘deserve’ chivalry several times in the past) is an effort in looking for affirmation from what you think should be the manosphere in order to reconcile your ego-investment in what you’d hoped for 19 years could work out with your BPD (not sure about that) ex.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:10 pm
Besides, I get the pleasure of watching him escort her through her post-wall, menapausal, old age phases.
Hahahaha, hoo boy.
Talk about a blessing in disguise.
Look, if you could pick the guy who’s gonna step in an become at least ‘some kind’ of father to your daughter.. All I’m saying is, he’s not too bad in that regard.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:12 pm
So, so you think you can tell
Heaven from Hell,
Blue sky’s from pain.
Can you tell a green field
From a cold steel rail?
A smile from a veil?
Do you think you can tell?
And did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?……..
February 26th, 2015 at 5:14 pm
@ Rollo re:tuff
I tried to wave him off…..they never listen.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:15 pm
Just the name “Tuff love” says it all.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
@ TUFF
Dude. Sit, down, shut the fuck up and LISTEN to the men here who know you and your little special snowflake story better than you do…and you lived it.
The decisions have already been made for you and all we are doing is explaining them to you. Abandon all hope.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
“Tuff love” = I’m pretending to myself that I’m a bad ass and a white knight simultaneously.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:18 pm
@TuffLuv
Look, if you could pick the guy who’s gonna step in an become at least ‘some kind’ of father to your daughter
I refuse to put myself in the position of making that decision. This is part of what I meant when I talked about a BPD harpy making your life miserable. That’s a shitty decision to have to make at all. The only good answer is to not have to make that decision.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:18 pm
@rollo
I ain’t trying to fuck y’all so save the beta jibes..
I’m going about things the best I can. Like a man. Your advice’s usefulness stops at “how to handle the next woman”. And believe me, I will use, and have used, much of it.
Yes, ‘knocked up’, means pregnancy before marriage. Like I said, kids were not my ambition at the time, but they became my whole life. That, and damage control.
I’m not evangelizing BP by saying holding a door for a woman can be an opener, and holding a door for all women is not a bad thing. I never said they deserve it, I said they did NOT deserve to be on the receiving end of a generic disdain for all women, in the form of not having the door held for them, as some sort of message to women.
There’s a difference between accepting women without hating them, and pedestalizing women. Yes, even my wife
February 26th, 2015 at 5:19 pm
@StringsofCoins
You don’t need to join the cult yourself.
I have a semi-unicorn Mormon woman who has a rural working class background and has never been exposed to leftism or feminism at a university.
We met in the unemployment office – no bucks needed.
It doesn’t matter that my world view doesn’t include any elements of the supernatural. She appreciates me as I am (as much as is possible for a woman ;-).
Yes, TRP is a prerequisite for managing a relationship with any woman.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:19 pm
@Sun
“The only good answer is to not have to make that decision.”
Then the war is already lost. They’ve won. You lose. IMO, that’s sad.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:22 pm
@Tuff, and yet here you are. How much of the dreams and ambitions of your 20s and 30s have you been held back from thanks to that dedication, investment, support and commitment to “seeing it through” for almost 20 years? Did you think she’d eventually recognize the equity you thought you had all this time? Do you think maybe in hindsight your Blue Pill heroism and chivalrous intentions were actually the cause of your situation now? Even the milquetoast divorceé she’s with now is a better long term option to her.
Yet you still want to advise these guys to risk it all, “fuck it, just marry her” ?
The Matrix has had you for a long time now Tuff.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:23 pm
@TuffLuv
Attempt to shame with FI “man up” directive again.
Failure to comprehend that what I meant was that I won’t settle for the kind of woman or relationship that leads to that decision down the road.
Look dude, spit up or shit out the Blue Pill already.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:24 pm
Four guys have been going to the same golfing trip to St
Andrews for many years . .
Two days before the group is to leave, Jack’s wife puts her
foot down and tells him he isn’t going.
Jack’s mates are very upset that he can’t go, but what can they do?
Two days later, the three get to St Andrews only to find
Jack sitting at the bar with four drinks set up!
“Wow, Jack, how long you been here, and how did you talk
your miss us into letting you go ?”
“Well, I’ve been here since last night. Yesterday evening, I was sitting in my living room chair and my wife came up behind me and put her hands over my eyes and asked, ‘Guess who?” I pulled her hands off, and there she was, wearing a nightie. She took my hand and pulled me into our bedroom. The room had candles and rose petals all over. Well, she’s been
reading ’50 Shades of Grey’. . . . .. . !
On the bed she had handcuffs, and ropes! She told me to tie
her up and cuff her to the bed, so I did.
And then she said, “Do whatever you want.”
So – – – Here I am !!
February 26th, 2015 at 5:24 pm
@Tilikum
“Abandon all hope.”
This seems to nicely sum up the best actual “advice” that can be offered from the posters on this site, to me, and to the young men in this world trying to find answers.
Wonderful.
Guys, I’m doing and controlling everything I can. I’m defying all things I can. I’m fighting as hard as I can.
When one of you has an actual “practical” suggestion, I’m listening.
Kill her? Kill him? Sure, I’d love to.
Pull out all my money and head for the hills? Yep thought about it.
Quit my job and cross my arms and say, I’m not playing anymore? Uh huh.
Anyone?
February 26th, 2015 at 5:27 pm
@Not Born
Haha, nice!
February 26th, 2015 at 5:32 pm
How much of the dreams and ambitions of your 20s and 30s have you been held back from thanks to that dedication, investment, support and commitment to “seeing it through” for almost 20 years?
Many
Did you think she’d eventually recognize the equity you thought you had all this time?
Yes
Do you think maybe in hindsight your Blue Pill heroism and chivalrous intentions were actually the cause of your situation now?
Not entirely, but partially, yes.
Yet you still want to advise these guys to risk it all, “fuck it, just marry her” ?
Yes, I do. Just like many decisions I’ve made in my life, they were based on opportunity cost, or consequence in a, I made this bed, way.
For example,
““seeing it through” for almost 20 years?”
Shall I have left when my sons were 10 and 8?
——————-
I’m advising them to take a risk, and yes a big one, but to do it better than I did.
The question Rollo, is what are you advising them to do? And what is the opportunity cost of that? Mr. 18.5 years married.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:32 pm
Symbolism,tuff.
Shit testing you is male tribal ritual. You are being tested. Are you good enough to be part of the group that is the comments section of Rollo’s blog. A shit test by a woman or a man needs an unemotional Alpha response in order to pass the test.
You must open a door for a woman is a symbolic for “you have to be Blue Pill”.
I see Rollo had some hint of doubt that your ex really was Borderline rather that she was just an Alpha Widow and you descended into Betatude. Was she a raving BPD? I would still contend you can’t keep Frame at all with a BPD chick. And just like Roissy joked yesterday in crazy chick game, the expiration date on a BPD sex fest is one year from opening.
February 26th, 2015 at 5:34 pm
@sun
” the kind of woman ”
So.. NAWALT?