sjfrellc hit me with this question from Monday’s post:
Rollo, what are your real “feelings” about this blue pill guy. Are you surprised that you couldn’t peer counsel him to come around to your perspective? Or are you frustrated that the Blue Pill Feminine Imperative and social conventions are like a black hole and sucked him in and wouldn’t let go?
Lets just be clear about something I’m not sure I’ve ever addressed before, I never expect any guy to come to a Red Pill perspective. I’m thankful guys find this blog, I’m glad I can help and my book and writing here is accessible, but I don’t expect men to accept any of it. If I expect anything it’s that the vast majority of men will resist even a passing reference to anything counter to their Blue Pill conditioning like a cornered animal. Most men are completely inured and dependent on an intergender social system and a set of rules they’ve been raised to believe is fair (if not grossly weighted in their own favor) and women are abiding by. They believe that contenting and satisfying a woman’s sexual strategy is a realizable life success.
I’ve always said unplugging guys from the Matrix is like triage, but this man was like reading last rites to a guy 10 years ago only to find out he hasn’t died yet. It’s no secret that I’ve personally known a man who hung himself and two more who swallowed bullets as a direct result of their inability to come to terms with their shattered hopes of an ideal Blue Pill life. It’s one thing to have men commit suicide because their ONEitis fears of losing “the best girl they’d ever get” leave them, but it’s quite another to watch a similar man waste away to the end of his life still grasping for the hope that in the last half hour of his life that Blue Pill goal might be realized if he’s only good enough.
I never expected him to unplug even then, but to see the guy still grasping at Blue Pill ideals because he utterly has no other frame of reference put the totality of a Blue Pill existence into perspective for me. I’m all about guys spinning plates, enjoying more and better sex with them or their wives, and certainly about adopting an Alpha mindset and behaviors that facilitate doing that, but it’s important to also remember that the importance of a Red Pill awareness has much broader implications. It can literally save your life.
Anyone wondering why I have a problem with purple pill advocates pandering to the sensibilities of their majority female readership (i.e. clients) by encouraging Blue Pill half-measures to men’s lives should keep that in mind.
When you become Red Pill aware you become more conscious of how the conditioning of a Blue Pill mindset predisposes men to frustration because Blue Pill idealism is really unattainable by design. You also become aware of how dangerous that frustration has the potential to be for men who can neither handle the Red Pill truth nor the constant measuring and failure to achieve Blue Pill goal-states he’s been conditioned to believe are attainable, and other men have.
That frustration can be dangerous to both himself and others, but that’s in the now. Precious few men in the ‘sphere consider the long-term consequences of the life of a man immersed in Blue Pill idealism, responsibility and promises that keep him grinding on until he’s reached the end of his usefulness to the Feminine Imperative.
“He was never much of a man…”
Since I started writing on SoSuave, and especially more now that I’ve detailed Open Hypergamy, I’ve had many guys relate a similar story about how their grandmother, mother or mother-in-law had just openly told him or his wife that her husband was never “much of a man”.
These women are all in their late 70s to early 80s and it’s like at that point all bets are off and what do they really have to lose by letting their daughters and granddaughters in on grandma’s words of warning about “settling” on a man? I’ve even had women readers relate how their own mothers confessed that there was a “just part of her she just could never share with a man like her father.”
These Alpha Widow confessions usually came after her husband was in the ground or had been delivered to the assisted living facility and too far gone to really register the gravity of her real estimate of him after living the better part of her life with him. The guys who relate these stories to me are Red Pill aware so their jaws dropping came with a little knowing expectation, but imagine how the Blue Pill husband of the daughter of one of these elderly women must process that confession. What mental contortions does a man need to do to fit that information into a Blue Pill mindset?
I think when a woman has nothing to really lose by copping to it is when they’re most comfortable with Open Hypergamy. This same comfort is becoming more common for younger women due to the social and personal security they’re ‘entitled’ to now, but for women who don’t really feel that security has solidified until their golden years this admonition and confession of Open Hypergamy almost seems like a relief to them. A relief in the hope that they’ve warned their daughters or granddaughters to opt for monogamy with an exciting Alpha lover/husband (no matter how perceptual) rather than regretting the ‘safe bet’ she made by settling on her Plan B man, her Beta-dependable husband she conveniently ‘found’ in her Epiphany Phase.
As women age towards their later years the urgency to warn younger generations of the sisterhood about the results of their hypergamous life decisions becomes more pressing. To be sure there’s a degree of desire to live vicariously through their daughter’s and granddaughter’s experiences, but more so this confession is for their own need of closure – a final coming clean about what was really influencing those past decisions and living (or not) with them. There comes a point when admitting the ugly truth feels better than worrying over keeping up the pretense of concern.
Far too many Blue Pill men (even young men) are terrified of living the life of the lonely old man. They imagine that if they don’t comply with the Feminine Imperative’s preset relational context of women that they’ll live lives of quiet desperation. I outlined this in the Myth of the Lonely Old Man – the threat point is one where men are encouraged to believe that if they don’t comply with women’s relational primacy they’ll endure a life of decaying loneliness into old age, unloved and devoid of children who’ll comfort them bedside as they peacefully pass into the next life.
What these Blue Pill men fail to realize is this is simply one more part of the feminine-primary fantasy they’re condition for. Do a Google image search for “end of life issues”, see all of those pictures of grandpa holding hands with wife and family in a clean comforting hospice bed saying his last goodbyes before he passes on? That advertising is the Blue Pill fantasy. In all likelihood you’ll die in an elderly care home, from lung fluid buildup, in the middle of the night with no one around or a complete stranger in the bed next to you. I understand that’s a depressing thought, but the truth of it is you’ll really have no influence in deciding how you’re going out at that stage, and hopefully that wakes you up about living a Blue Pill existence based on fear, compliance and appeasement till death do you part.
Put that into perspective with a man who wakes up to his conditions.
Die Alpha
Now before I get the predictable “not with my grandpa” stories, let me just say that you’ve got to put the generational differences into perspective.
When I published Empathy I figured I’d get some backlash from women in the oversimplified binaries I’ve come to expect. So before those same sputterings arise let me unequivocally footnote here that women are absolutely capable of a learned empathy and sympathy for men. However those sympathies, like genuine desire, cannot be negotiated for. Whatever your misguided concept is about how Relational Equity should merit a woman’s sympathy or respect, those are only valid and genuine when a woman freely gives them to a man she perceives as Alpha, never as something he’s due.
In every story you’ll hear about how the wife, kids and grandkids gathered around the family patriarch in the hours before he passed, understand that he was in all likelihood a respected dominant Alpha for most of his life. I want to add a bit of balance to the Blue Pill elderly I described this week, so let me also say I’ve known a handful of Men who died Alpha. These are the Men for whom a widow and his kids honor his memory once a year. They go to the gravesite because he was worth the cost of putting him in the ground instead of a cheap cremation.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:28 am
no idiot. you got the power the last 20 years (age 40-60) that led to the current crop of women we see every day and nothign on TV but portrayal of black men with blue eyed white women in every super bowl commercial. idiot. I don’t even have time to explain to you right now. what’s happened is the last 30 years after the 70s!!! duh. especially the last 15 years!!! boomers in power!!! the bad stuff has really ramped up since 1985 and really really ramped up since 2000.
so we have the average Gen X white woman now childless or divorced with one or two kids at age 38, bitter, confused, will grow old alone, with cats.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:31 am
and fuck you.. boomers allowed no fault divorce, which is what has really fucked Gen X. we are not pussies. we cannot fight the power of the state or (over the long haul) fight the fact that our women are completely retarded, brainwashed horror shows. jesus. what has happened since 1980 to our civilization is squarely on the shoulders of boomers, who are Still in power!!!
my kid does this thing called i-ready for homework at school. of course it is controlled 100% by YKW social programming like every single thing you see on TV. and it is nonstop promotion of miscengenation — black men with white women in every little scene that is shown.
main thing it tries to teach my kids is that MLK was a god and all white men are evil and the main thing to know is white men were mean to the native americans.
literally. that is the education that is being forced on my kids by boomers while I am powerless to do anyting about it while I work all day to pay 40% in taxes after giving 50% of my take home pay to my ex wife involuntarily, only to see my kids 2 days a week for my troubles.
fuck you.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:35 am
@ anon
boomers allowed no fault divorce
Lol, boomers haven’t voted democratic since Carter. Naw, you have to blame VAWA on young, liberal voters, especially women and minorities. You lot are voting along with the feminazis.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:36 am
NFD screwed all men.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:39 am
also you have shown yourself to lack reading comprehension. my comment to simon was on point because he was bragging about his ability to keep his woman 40 years.
that’s because he has a different sort of woman: a pre-gen X one. it was still possible to keep a woman for 40 years if she was born between 1940 and 1950.
that’s what I was saying there.
the boomers who call gen x “wimps” and blame us for our women’s problems are way off and literally cannot contemplate having grown up in our world with women being told they should be scientists really starting in the 1980s as we were in school, being told by Madonna not to settle “don’t go for second best baby you’re too much better baby on your own” and our women as a whole are childless or divorced spinsters at age 38!!!!
it’s the women who have failed, not the men.
the boomers very clearly, to anyone who has a brain and the will to look, allowed a complete YKW takeover of our laws and mores, so we have no fault divorce, no marriage to begin with, and women being stupid tatted up brainwashed whores who will grow old alone.
it is beyond question that the boomer generation “liberated” women to do this to themselves (and our civilization while they are at it).
if you were a 39 year old man right now, you’d get it. if you are 65 or so and married 40 years since you were 25 (am I right?), you simply cannot understand what it’s been like to grow up in Gen X, with women being 50% of law school graduating classes and being filled with all sorts of stupid lies (feminist ideas)
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:41 am
@anon
Girl game requires at most 4-5 things: Don’t be an out of shape landwhale or single mom, don’t be a bitch, do be aware of your true RMV (and don’t be unrealistic about your expectations), do show up whether for a scheduled date or just being out on the town and available, and don’t wait till past 25 to find a dude to settle down with. It’s really really fucking simple and not all that hard compared to the game we as men must learn. Your entire problem can be summed up by two things:
1) Any woman single past 25 is single because she failed one or all of those points for a very long time. It could be because she bought in to and bit down hard on the FI lie. It could be that she’s fat and lazy. It could be that she was a bitchy HB6 princess (now on the decline) with unrealistic expectations. It could be that she’s a single mom. Point is that if a woman’s single past her SMV peak when her mating potential is at its best, there’s a damn good reason and you should be incredibly suspicious. Any woman over 25 is a ONS or a plate as a rule. Never consider them LTR material or take them seriously in any way, form, or fashion.
2) Online dating is full of broken women. That’s it. If a woman is in online dating, it’s because she failed to apply girl game one way or another. If they’re using the rules of girl game I stated above, they don’t need online dating. Women only go to online dating if they fail at girl game, have psychological issues, or are just looking to get their ego pumped without having to give anything in return. I have tested this a lot of times myself. A lot. I probably went on 40-50 dates (having to message hundreds if not thousands of women to get that much) from online sources before finding the ‘sphere and confirming my suspicions: online dating seems like a boon to men (you can weed out women much faster from a much larger pool), but it’s actually just an ego pump for women and a search through the reject pile for men. You don’t want other men’s cast-offs, believe me.
Get away from online dating completely. Hit up the bar/club/social activity scene. If you do online dating as a supplement, do it strictly to work on skills and do not expect anything good from it. It is a horrible source for women as a hand and fast rule. Build a bigger social circle (something I’m working on right now, as mine has been exhausted for attractive women for a long time), move to a new area of the country (another thing I’m working on), and just go do other shit more.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:47 am
@ anon
You really are very confused. You say that the problem is NFD and also that the problem happened in the last 20 years. Problem is, NFD was passed in California in ’69–lots more than 20 years ago.
You are obviously very angry and looking for a scapegoat. You need to process with your cortex instead of your amygdala. Chill, bro. People here understand your pain.
Go ahead and vent about your pain, but don’t point fingers.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:52 am
@ anon
Even boomer women are a big problem. I have to next mine. She has the Entitled Princess mentality just like Gen X women. Boomers are going through a surge in divorces.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:54 am
sun wokong, great comment. totally agree. did that–deleted all online dating apps. complete waste of time.
95% in the real world will be the future failures you describe, however, as they too are filled with FI lies they have bought into.
MGTOW is the only option, except now I have to pay 40% of my income to the government (to pay for welfare babies) and then pay 50% of what I have leftover after that to my ex wife (seen as child support, not alimony, by IRS — not tax deductible)
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:01 am
@theasdgamer
Ah, those numbers have gotten worse than what I found when I last looked them up, definitely.
On @anon’s whining about Boomers, it really always has been a curious situation to me. Boomers did raise the worst generation of men ever. There’s no real denying that. I am part of a group that is more pussified and disconnected from the reality we’re living in than any before. But I do find myself asking “Why?”
My father was definitely a frustrated beta nerd with no game. However, he and my (very good looking but psychologically broken) mother got married at 21 (in 1974) like the previous generation. Clearly they played by the old rules despite being part of the “liberated” generation.
My grandfather was not a beta. He was a tank driver in Europe during WWII. A blue collar hardass worker at a rock quarry in Arkansas from a long line of hard working farmers. He was not a pussy. He was in control of the household and there was no discussion about it. His stories from the war were amazing. In his late 60s and early 70s my grandfather could still get my dad to stop his abusive behavior by putting his foot down.
Yet my dad’s eventual dating advice (what little there was) matched my mother’s: JBY, one day girls will realize how great you are after they’re tired of the hawt guys (voluntary submission to AF/BB), etc.
The disconnect is obviously not that they made the laws or the social reality. However somehow they wound up in between traditional society of their parents and the open hypergamy Gen X and beyond are facing. They encouraged guys like me to embrace the worst relationship advice ever in accepting open hypergamy.
It really is an odd case when you think about it.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:03 am
“you retarded boomers freeing women to destroy themselves and civilization ..”
Problem, officer?
There comes a point when it’s simply not cost effective or even decent to “save” a crumbling four-hundred-year-old building, or a 103-y-o dementia patient.
No tears from me, I could make my own fairly satisfactory culture, from assorted crap rattling around in my ageing skull. Wouldn’t be very “nice” though …
Muahahahhhhaaaaaa!!11!
Our Boomer powers are limitless, I tell you, limitless!!
signed
with all our love,
Your Shitty Parents xxxx
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:06 am
@ Sun
Boomers did raise the worst generation of men ever.
Boomers were propagandized as parents just like generations since then were propagandized as children.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:09 am
@ Sun
I didn’t raise any pussified men, but I did raise some Entitled Princesses ™.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:11 am
@ anon
Yeah, my life kinda sucks right now, just like yours.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:11 am
lol. what about women? boomers raised THE WORST GENERATION OF WOMEN!!!!
oh I forgot: everything is a man’s fault. jesus.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:13 am
all 3 of us are on the same page. I realize this now.
yes, the boomers were also victims of YKW propagandizing that Henry Ford tried to warn us about in 1915. we are all victims.
feminism was created and continues to be pushed by Jewish women (not a debatable point)
feminism is primarily an attack ON WOMEN who don’t need it, leaving them confused CC riding sluts who will be alone with cats from age 38 until death.
meanwhile hmmmmmm jews still only marry jews. but every super bowl commercial shows miscegenation.
zlozlzlzlo it’s all so obvious now.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:14 am
@theasdgamer
I suppose that’s true. And obviously when they were dating and getting married they could use the old set of books, so obviously they assumed those books were fine in the new reality too. They grew up in a time when those rules were fine. They agreed to a new social reality that sounded good without knowing what they needed to tell their children to live in it.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:17 am
By a curious coincidence, this morning I was pointed to Vox Day’s reading of the Riot Act to (his definition of) Gammas.
And I thought of you, dear.
anon (not to be confused with anon, of course), you really ought to take a butcher’s at it. Before you have a stroke.
http://alphagameplan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/are-you-gamma-1-of-2.html
http://alphagameplan.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/are-you-gamma-2-of-2.html
There’s shedloads of it, he’s still banging on about it half-a-dozen consecutive posts later. Obviously a bit of a sore nerve, to some.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:18 am
but gamer you are being naive and are still in the matrix if you think “voting” has anything to do with the laws and social mores that have been pushed on us since the 1970s.
lzlozlzlozlozlzolz seriously… look deeper.
I don’t care if boomers haven’t voted democratic since whenever. fuck dude. the POTUS is a teleprompter reader. the rothschild private jewish bank (fed reserve) controls all.
the media, which is supposed to be the “fourth estate” protecting us against a left-leaning communist government, of course, is now the exact opposite, constantly pushing leftism at an extreme level to the point of censorship and loss of livelihood for any white man who dares to simply speak obvious biological truths.
we white men have cause to be bitter and beaten down!!!
look at the last 40 years of this country!!!!
The Bell Curve was published in 1992 or so. Every sane person who has lived in this world knows realities about race and sex (“gender” lzozlzozozozl) and yet YKW has ramped up the lies the past 10 years even worse!!
it is ASTRONOMICALLY horrifying and depressing.
to discover the red pill after a no fault divorce with children when one is a loving father is HORRIFIC, as Rollo and even YaReally have stated.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:24 am
Tam, the problem is if you have already brought innocent children into this world. In my case, two daughters who I love more than any non-father can comprehend. And I fear for THEM. Feminism has been an attack on women. Men catching on is bad for women. The backlash is coming. I fear there will be NO marriage and family in 20 years when my kids should be getting married and having babies.
It takes two to tango. Some stupid woman tried to tell me I could teach my kids right the other day despite nonstop leftist brainwashing from the TV and school system. But no person is an island. My kids need the cooperation of an entire society. To take it to an extreme, if my kids are the only sane people when they are 25, then they are fucked. If all men in their generation have caught on and have boycotted marriage due to what’s been going on the last 20 years with no fault divorce, and if my kids are at risk of rape from rampaging Africans who are now 30% of the country living off of the taxes of the few remaining working white men, they are fucked.
the reality, despite jewish attempt to change biological reality, is that women need a man to protect them (right now the communist state we live in in the surrogate man as CH has explained…that can’t last forever).
women since 1975 have been brainwashed to think otherwise. we still see ramping up of of “equal pay for women” where is the equal pay for women on oil rigs deep sea and in the coal mines under ground in West Virginia?? where jews?
My daughters are going to find a world of MGTOW and danger when they are 25 and marriage no longer exists, at all.
This world is heading for a major fucking disaster, bro. You can’t go poolside if you already have kids.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:25 am
@anon
Quit obsessing so much about fault. And lay off the whining about “TEH JOOOOOOOS!” It’s not some kind of Jewish conspiracy, despite all the racist whining by conspiracy theorist whackos that consider the ‘sphere a place to peddle their bullshit. Fuck’s sake, that does nothing to further the discussion.
The reason I mention men is not because it’s men’s fault. It’s because we’re the ones who will clean it up. Women will not. That much is very, very clear. It is our job now that we’re aware of the problem to fix it at what levels we can. The fact that so many men are pussified is what has made that process so slow and difficult. The fact that I was so pussified is the only reality I know for certain was true. It is there that I choose to start the process of fixing it.
The fact that men were so pussified has enabled women to get things to this point. Men must act as the adult in the room and put their foot down, but pussified men won’t do that. Women will not act with self-discipline with a hypergamous buffet in front of them. Men must say “No, this is not conducive to the good of human kind”
Previous generations of men allowed things to get out of control by failing to put their feet down, but younger generations of men will be responsible for fixing that. Women will not see why they should bother to curb these behaviors, but we see how much it hurts us and our friends. We see how it hurts society as a whole. Therefore, it’s reversing the pussification of men that matters during the process of cleaning up the damage.
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:39 am
Top Post Sun Wukong!
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:42 am
Sun, I agree with that. I fear it is too far gone. It’s not 1787 anymore. The government-media-leftist-feminist-education industrial complex is all-powerful, and has weapons we cannot match except in a fever dream. The government does not line up in red coats and fight with rifles and bayonets anymore. The Constitutional right to bear arms has been allowed to technically stand only because it does not really help us protect ourselves from the government anymore–which, of course, was its original intent. The government need not fear our Glocks. There will be no rebellion. Our only ammo is individual acts of MGTOW and boycotting marriage, giving these individual men lives of depression, incel, and horror.
:-(
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:50 am
“Therefore you can reasonably expect that the more men who fall out of the mating game or spend their lives hanging on by the bottom rung, the far greater the likelihood of political instability, self perpetuating decline, criminality, social dysfunction and collapse. A lot of guys won’t just shuffle off to a field quietly as evolutionary duds, they will in fact support hardline ideologues and demagogues who will give them the excuse they need to smash a failed society to which they have no meaningful relationship. Either way, everybody loses.”
And that is “everyone losing” exactly how?
I don’t want to troll, it’s really an honest question.
Thinking about it – there really is not problem.
The white countries destroy themselves via declinig brith rates because of freed hypergamy and a decade-long-programm of fucking over thze most valuable worker-soldiers – that is, the betas.
Sure, everybody can buy “smart” devices, fiddle around with a cell phone and we all have enough to eat.
That is not remarkable progress if you lose one of the most basic (and sometimes base) need of them all: True & full sexual access.
In what SUBSTANTIAL ways has quality of life improved since the fifties, ASIDE from developments that happened OUTSIDE of the control of our apex-leaders /omega-geniuses – aka in semi-automatic systems of ganining knowledge that were founded on the wisdom of the ancestors? (like…the still functioning remains of universities, medicine, physics, electronics etc.)
Radical Ideologies? Great, the more they smash the better the targets they hit.
Islam spreading? Great, let the bombs go off. I really, really hope they hit a lot of SWPL-children.
Anything that destroys and/or physically subverts the paradigma of killing off white culture (that is, everything that attacks the current “values” of western societies, and their only value is nihilistic self-abasement) is welcomed by me.
Immigrants multiplying and becoming more loud-mouthed each year? There you go, in public in even support that.
I’m by no means a “tough guy” or some “badass” – just received a solid ‘ol German infantry training before the complete ideological takeover of the military. Shot at humans once or twice (legally/”had” to) – it’s no the big deal it’s made up to be. Oh, and of course I just love-love-love hunting. I live in a rural area. I rented two cellars. And no, if the goverment one day wants to collect in all legal weapons, that is no problem for me. As a good citizen with a blemish-free goody-beta-record, I hand everything in, of course I do.
Unauthorized Nietsche translation from the top of my head:
That which topples has to be pushed, that which falls must not be catched but thrown even further down.
There is a pretty complex concept that really is pretty simple in constructive/systematic theory:
It’s called VIABILITY. The gist of it is this:
It is impossible to define reality by observation (that bullshit part is favoured by leftists, too) – there is always a tiny “differential” between perception, language and a (non-observable) physical reality. That part of “Viability” leftists love.
What they don’t love (and keep very, very quiet about) – as soon as the differential between communicated reality and physical reality becomes too great – the organism dies, a machine malfunctions or a social system fails.
Every step in the SWJ-direction/cultural Marxism depletes the resources (social, technological, material) that enable the un-viable differential to be kept up. It’s just a question of time. Because the massiv “resource bank” of the western world rests on all the “evil patriarchy” achievements: Being racially realistic, putting the common good higher than sick individual impulses, favouring physical reality before ideology etc. pp.
And every women raped by Rotherham-guys and every bomb detonated pushes this further along.
Back to Nietsche it is… :-)
Disclaimer: No, I don’t think that western or white cultures are somehow “supreme” on a meta plane or are “worth more” in some religious or metaphysical fashion.
Actually, the strength of moral and biological control (as in contrast to pure technological advantage with a completly degraded pschological society) is shown to the West every single day. (And I don’t hate on any culture/race/religion at all)
February 23rd, 2015 at 11:52 am
Addendum: PUA/TRP solves the problem of getting sex (at a horrendous cost in time, opportunity and society-wide morals – I know how my productivity sank as soon as game worked for me) – but that makes nothing better in the long run.
February 23rd, 2015 at 12:03 pm
@447
On the contrary I think it does. If more guys came to the biological reality of female behavior through personal experience thanks to PUA/TRP, then do you think Open Hypergamy would fly once they decided to get married? Me neither.
February 23rd, 2015 at 12:10 pm
While I don’t think the entire tail of the fucked-upness of our society can be pinned on one donkey alone, I think @anon’s disdain for the MO of the boomers over the last 3 decades is spot on, although incomplete.
The great experiment perpetuated on us GenX’ers actually runs much deeper from a psychological warfare perspective, and while most boomers are not guilty (most are good people who just want to, and do, live the American dream), the media, corporate marketeers, organized labor, civil servants, schools, and especially lawyers and the courts, are all guilty to the point of criminality of..
.. Mass shaming and blaming of the youth in this country from a very early age.
while simultaneously encouraging the continued perpetuation of the very problems they blame us for.
This goes for boys and girls. This mass shaming is such a powerful tool that, well, witness the aftermath.
The primary purpose of it.. a people ashamed of themselves will believe almost *any* lie, if they believe it can help fix a problem they blame on themselves. What lie’s, you ask? Every single one that has been uttered in an attempt to divide us along racial, political, ideological and biological lines. Divide and conquer.
.. since when have differences in opinion, much less genetic makeup, made it impossible to make progress as a human race? Since the 80’s, that’s when. When ‘the feed’ got wise, a la Goebbels-wise.
February 23rd, 2015 at 12:12 pm
As Yareally said, after you put in the initial investment in not being socially retarded, game is really a very low-cost affair. No reason for productivity to tank.
Since going to clubs dancing merges well into my writing about social dancing, my productivity increases.
February 23rd, 2015 at 12:18 pm
@ anon
Re: revolution
I would note the US has never won a counter insurgency war. I would further note that historically insurgencies almost always succeed in the long run. Those that falter do so because of lack of will, or failure to keep the majority of the population sufficiently disinterested.
February 23rd, 2015 at 1:46 pm
When the Whites are gone black is will suffer. Pretty clear that’s the case with any State or city blacks have taken over
February 23rd, 2015 at 1:55 pm
@Quint
“Look at this list of losers who didn’t procreate:”
I think my only issue about this would be that while those were great men that did great things, a lot of MGTOW don’t seem to want to do much beyond just barely survive. I listen to Sandman regularly and from what I can piece together of his life he basically just makes his videos daily and takes enough jobs barely interacting with people to get by and I think there was a point he talked about where for a few years he lived on the absolute bare minimum off the grid ghost mode checked out from society entirely.
So it’s like, if you’re going MGTOW but you’re working on painting the Sistene Chapel, that’s cool. But if you’re going MGTOW and your life is just barely make enough money to scrape by, interact with as few people as possible, contribute as little as possible, and basically lose yourself in videogames, porn, and writing blogs or making videos about how shitty women are while telling other guys to join you in this bare minimum lifestyle that is very unlikely to lead to anything on the level of Da Vinci or Tesla, I mean, how can a guy say “well look at THOSE amazing guys who didn’t reproduce but built this civilization!! I’m just like THEM!!” It’s like, ehhh I can’t really agree with that.
(this isn’t to pick on Sandman in particular or anything, and I myself have the same dilemma about reproducing because I’m aware it’s legally an insane nightmare to even attempt right now and I don’t have an interest in it, but I have a purpose outside of women and when I’m in my 40s I might decide to reproduce…if I get cancer I’m going to just rawdog as many chicks as possible to leave an army of me behind lol)
@Yollo
No prob, good luck. Enjoy the process, it’s pretty damn fun if you don’t take it too seriously. There are worse ways to spend a night than being out talking to beautiful women whether they fuck you or not lol
People talk about “oh it’s a lot of time investment” when it’s like ok what else are you up to, oh you’re watching Game of Thrones and some reality TV or leaving negative self-defeating comments on blogs…just take that hour you would be doing that and instead of watching an episode of Game of Thrones, use that hour to go talk to some girls.
@anon
“There is such a thing as justified bitterness, anger, or even horror, when a man discovers the red pill.”
Totally. And I get that. It is TOTALLY logical and expected that a guy who gets burned hard will have bitterness about it and that bitterness is completely rational and I go “ya man I don’t blame you I would be pissed too, you legit got a raw deal in life.”
But then what? Stew in that “life was unfair to me” victim mentality till you die? Waste your day arguing online about who’s fault it is that you don’t have what you want? You’ve got like 40 years left, why not work toward being happy for some of those years? We are men, we overcome hardship. We find a way to survive and overcome obstacles. No one is saying that you didn’t get an unfair deal, but you have the ability to start overcoming that if you want to. It won’t be easy, it’ll suck ass at times, but it’s there if you want it.
Most people don’t though. They put on another episode of Game of Thrones and get lost in their fantasy world, rub out another load to porn, and just wait to die, blaming the unfair deal they got the whole way to the grave. And no one can say “ya, you shouldn’t be bitter” because what happened to them does suck…but I’m saying “you don’t HAVE to be bitter”.
“and I find these women are duds!”
Lots of women are shit lol no surprise there. Society doesn’t expect anything from them these days except having a pussy, so why would they work on being better than that?
A girl who’s worth settling down into an LTR with is VERY rare. That’s why I think it’s good to learn how to manage fuckbuddies and run a harem, so that you can have a lot of “cool but not quite LTR material” girls in your life and when you eventually meet one that’s way above the rest of them and you’ve properly screened her to make sure she’s a high-quality girl to you, then you can focus on her.
But the problem is guys, and I can see it in just your writing, are going around with this mentality of “I have this hole in my life and I need to fill it!! I just want the next girl I meet to be perfect and fill that hole and I can just settle down again!!” It’s rare as fuck to find a girl that’s legitimately worth settling with. Sure that’s not fair but that’s reality.
ESPECIALLY if you’re a guy who’s high-value and working on yourself and doing self-development etc. No girl is doing that, especially not past 30 lol You are probably too good for a TON of women. So keep them as casual fuckbuddies and just learn to appreciate them for what they are instead of being frustrated that they aren’t what you want them to be.
“I keep being put in a beta provider role by these mid-30s women (that’s the problem right there?)”
Yup. Here’s a list of problems that stand out to me from your post:
1) you’re old, so by default girls are going to expect that you’re ready to settle down. I’m getting more of this problem myself as I approach my mid-30s, even the young girls are thinking “I want a guy who wants to settle and this dude is in his 30s so he’s probably more likely to want to settle too instead of this 21yo peer of mine”.
2) you’re going for old chicks. Quit that shit lol You shouldn’t waste time with girls past like, 31, 32 MAX. If you’re a hideous looking dude, hit the gym and get your body in shape, ask a clothing store chick to dress you stylish, ask a hairdresser what to do with your hair (shave it if you’re balding bad), etc. Handle your shit as much as you can. Hank Moody is a cool older man, Bob from Accounting who’s wearing baggy cargo pants from the 90s and shit isn’t. Look like you care about yourself. You don’t have to be a stud, but you should look like you take pride in yourself.
Fuck that whole “go for girls your own age” thing. Girls at 35+ are not more intelligent, better read, worldly, interesting, etc. They’re bitter shitty lonely women with shitloads of baggage about the world from their career they hate because they didn’t realize they’d have to work till retirement if they don’t find a Prince Charming, to their views on men and relationships. They’re wrinkling and going downhill and they have massive baby timers on because they only have a few years to reproduce before their eggs dry up or the risks of having a down syndrome baby etc. skyrocket.
So you combine you being old with them being old and only having a few years left to find a man to have babies with and it’s like ya, of COURSE they’re trying to make you a beta provider.
Go for younger girls. You’ll find they’re also far more positive and bubbly and happy and fun to be around because they haven’t had their souls and dreams crushed by life lol Plus they’ll be more up for a fuckbuddy because in their mind they have all the time in the world to find a man VS the 37yo wrinkle-face that’s desperate for a baby
3) quit going on dinner dates. Just a beer and conversation, that’s all you need. Taking them to dinner is by default throwing you into the provider category. If they won’t go for a beer then keep working on your game till they do. Also no one wants to get naked for the first time with someone after they’ve wolfed down a meal lol, eat AFTER sex.
4) “Mid 30s on dating site is flat out looking for the beta bux at that point, right?”
Yup. Go for younger. The problem is unless your profile pic is excellent, finding younger on a dating site is going to be hard. That means to find younger you’re probably going to have to go out and approach them. But the trade-off is that you won’t get this bullshit you’re getting now lol The reward will be much better, but it’ll be harder to get to it. It’s up to you whether you want to put in that effort or not…you could always just settle with some hag who has a shitty personality and lies about taking birth control so she can nail you down for 18 more years of child support, that’s always an option lol
5) “That brings me back to my lack of social circle and lack of going out on weekends problem (I have my kids every weekend).”
No biggie. Happy hours during the week are full of people, do some googling and find out which bars in your area have Happy Hours and hit them up. Grab a drink and chill at the bar and chat up the bartender and whoever’s beside you. Start making friends that way. Don’t be super picky for now, just socialize, you can upgrade your social circles later. Also pick the bar with hot girls, go for the bar with girls that seem young and hot to you instead of the old people cougar bars. A lot of younger girls are into older men these days, just put yourself in their environment and be cool/social with the people around you.
One strategy Paul Janka uses that I’ll probably use when I’m older and tired of the bar scene, is to collect numbers during the week, like lunch breaks go hit the grocery store or mall where everyone goes on their lunch breaks and chat girls up with a quick little routine, say “I have to get back to work but this was fun, we should go for a drink sometime, what’s your number?” and grab some numbers thru the week then set up actual dates for like Thursday nights or Sunday nights. Set the date at like 7pm and you should be able to get them into bed before midnight…when you get good you’ll be able to get them into bed by 9pm lol This method avoids using your weekends for dates and avoids competing with dudes in the bar…but it takes more nerves because you have to approach during the day and that’s all scary and shit for guys lol
An older dude with not a lot of free time is best served by social circle game and squeezing in day game where he can. Cold-approach Same-Night-Lay game is literally the least efficient way to get laid lol we do it for the challenge and learning experience. But really, building a social circle and having your reputation do half the work for you and having other guys/girls BRING you girls who’ve heard about you etc. is a way more efficient strategy.
6) “Total waste of time because she was a flat out bitch who did not even try to have fun or relax”
This is something older women do a lot. They’re just not fun. I literally avoid women past 30, I have no interest in dealing with their negative depressing shit lol I find girls past 27 start to go downhill into negative spirals about life. Go for younger girls.
7) “and I was “on” too. I was in a good mood and ready to have a good time (and yes I was groomed, I’m good looking, and I smelled good).”
Walk away. End the date. Just walk out if she’s shit. Imagine if instead of sitting there and politely wasting your time, you had taken your “on” feeling and ended things immediately and gone to sit at the bar or in another bar and chatted with a hot female bartender about how “I just walked out on a date, am I an asshole? She was SO boring…I expect women to bring something to the table and to be interesting conversationalists, what is it with women my age these days? They’re so boring. You’re not boring are you? Restore my faith in women, tell me something interesting about you.” Sure, you probably wouldn’t bang that hot bartender, but how much more fun of a night would that have been? Who knows, maybe there’s some girl beside you who sees you making the hot bartender laugh and she gets curious about you. Maybe you strike up an interesting conversation with a dude and he becomes the start of a new social circle for you. Who knows? So many possibilities.
Don’t waste your time on people who don’t deserve it. Even if they think you’re an asshole, who cares, if they wanted you to invest your time and energy and money in them then they should bring more to the table to earn it.
8) “do you have any advice or good links”
Start here:
http://yareallyarchive.com/2013/6/#comment-heartiste-453958
And Google “Paul Janka pdf” and check out Attraction Formula and Getting Laid in NYC. Both appear to be free. Paul is a super good-looking dude but ignore that, focus on his actual content. He runs a ton of daygame and he has some interesting views on it that will be useful for a guy who can’t go out Fri/Sat nights. Daygame costs literally $0, you can just walk around a public area with people and stop girls and chat and grab a number. Meet up for a beer or two (no food) and back to your place for minimal $ investment.
That’ll get you started but it’s up to you to take action. No one will fix you, no one cares about you, no one cares if you are just miserable for the next 40 years of your life. You are the ONLY one who cares about your happiness and success in life. You are the only one that can fix you. Guys like me are around to support you, but you’re gonna have to do the bulk of the work.
Good luck. :)
February 23rd, 2015 at 1:59 pm
@ Anon – “Boomers” – you dingbat. You have the understanding of politics and social change that I’d expect from a Youtube “expert” MGTOW. Get a grip on yourself.
If you’d like to understand how we got here, you have to start back with Hobbes, Burke, Bentham, Godwin and Mills, to name a few relevant political philosophers. The current insanity is coming from a radical egalitarianism, far out of step with our classical liberal values. It’s also driven by a radical idea about how man can be shaped by social forces. Broadly speaking, the U.S. got off the “liberal” bandwagon philosophically about 250 years ago, but the train of thought continued and gave birth to socialism (an idea that predates Marx), Marx’s Scientific Socialism (pure horseshit mostly) and then moves on to truly wild ideas about the nature of society and man. You see, Marx’s materialism gave license to social engineering that is simply unprecedented in human history, and it instructs the dogooders to use govt to make us a more “just” and “moral” society. No matter what – humanity is a project to them – we are to be shaped and prodded and shoved around by our betters. And the current meltdown is due to the failure of centralized social planning.
Today’s social justice movement is the current incarnation of it. And guess what? The majority of men in the West don’t support this garbage. This is being brought to you by a very sophisticated intergenerational leftist movement that quite intentionally is destroying the family as we know it because it prevents the development of a more perfect human being according to them. And the majority in this movement are women. If you don’t understand where this critique of the family emanates from, go read Engels essay on the family written in, what, 1872? You’ll see it lays out the entire feminist/social justice warrior vision.
They achieve their goals by controlling the thinking and philosophy of the major institutions of society, far beyond politics. Dedicated leftists for years have been told that their activism must be expressed everywhere – in art, drama, journalism, the workplace – anywhere. And they’ve won. The elite intellectuals of our society are by and large social justice warriors. Their ideological domination is complete now.
So yeah, there is that. The whole thing goes down the tubes when women get the vote. That’s when these imbecilic ideas become mainstreamed, because they can be sold to dopes who want to feel “secure” by craven politicians. Sure, there will always be some men who play that game too, but they are in the minority. The politics are ahead of reality and the truth is that women are essentially biologically and psychologically unprepared for their role in the modern world as independent people. The “Life of Julia” as portrayed by the Obama admin ad, promoting the cradle to grave socialist welfare state is a perfect reflection of this. People can’t take care of themselves, they need dogooders in the govt to perfect society and their lives, and women lap this shit up like it’s fried ice cream. And voila, here we are. And the entry point, the rationalization for these interventions is “justice” as defined by the likes of Rawls et al so they get to do whatever they want.
Have you read Nietzsche? He predicted what would happen when women decided to masculinize. And we are living through it. So, when you reach out for someone to blame, stop blaming “boomers”. Blame the left. That’s where all of this comes from. But even then, realize it’s too late. We are cucumber that’s been pickled – its always going to be a pickle. We are never going back, and yes, the future looks horrible for our society and men. But ask yourself this? Why shouldn’t the world be like this? Why shouldn’t we live in a nation in decline? Why not us? All nations and empires rise and fall. We are just another one.
Also, what is your issue with race? Fyi, my brother is married to a black woman. I have a half black niece and it’s not a catastrophe, in fact it’s a wonderful extension of our family. I do ‘black Christmas’ with him down south where he lives, with his black inlaws and it’s wonderful. I’m wondering what you think will happen that is so horrible if we “miscegenate”? Fyi, lots of women find muscular black men “hot”. Whether they are in superbowl ads or not. Is that your real issue? That your wife or GF or daughter, deep down inside, longs for a big black cock driven so deep into her that she shivers with excitement just thinking about it? Are you threatened by this? Lol, I’m sure you are. Me? I could care less who some woman wants to fuck besides me – if she likes black men, she can have at it. One of my recent young fucks told me she couldn’t date me long term because she favors black men, lol, while she was in bed with me. Who cares? Fyi, she was kind of confused by why she found me attractive anyway, but then again that’s been happening to me for my whole life…
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:09 pm
“I think the hardest part of unplugging and the thing that most men struggle with is learning to live for yourself. After a lifetime of serving others: your country, your parents, your kids, your wife, your boss, your church; it’s hard to figure out what you want. There is no plan. Everything you’ve been “trained” for is gone.”
BING! BING! BING!
We have a winner!
Robert Greene, in Ted Talk, talked about people become strangers to themselves because they are following other scripts in their lives, and not listening to themselves.
I can vouch for the fact that the most bizarre aspect of my life right now is asking, “What is it that I really want?” and answers are not immediately forthcoming. Why? Because RP knowledge has flushed out the previous scripts, but I have nothing to replace them with because I am not used to operating on my own.
It’s fucking bizarre…
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:17 pm
To be fair to the boomers, everything destroying the usa was in place before they gained power. Progressives won th usa in 1865 when the South surrendered. Everything since then has been consolidation of power and mopping up political operations
Feminism is another gift from the uptioa chasing yankees. It’s un fair to blame this all on the jew since yankees where pushing for .most of this crap way before the jews showed up in any number. Not that I am a fan of the jews.
My kids turned out on point because I took the time and the hard line.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:23 pm
@ theasdgamer
You have been getting mighty shrill with the anti BP and anti-anti PUA rhetoric lately.
Me was thinking thou protesteth too much. You’re married aren’t you?
“theasdgamer
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:52 am
@ anon
Even boomer women are a big problem. I have to next mine. She has the Entitled Princess mentality just like Gen X women. Boomers are going through a surge in divorces.”
Bingo. You were talking to your own self.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:34 pm
Wow Glenn what a weird comment. The first part about international leftist Jews is spot on, but then you go pro-black, not realizing that is part of the same thing??? Really weird comment. The first part, yes, I know all of that. I guess I’m saying Boomers (if anyone) had the “last clear chance” to literally prevent no-fault divorce and the extreme turn to women having all power that’s happened since 1980. Perhaps they could not have stopped it, but it was a collective failure, as a whole. Yes, I know that communism is an International Jew problem. Or an international “elite” problem, at a minimum.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:35 pm
@YaReally
You are probably too good for a TON of women.
To be fair, going by American weight standards that’s like 3 or 4 women tops.
@Glenn
Also, what is your issue with race?
For real. Hottest chick I ever dated was a black chick I dated in high school. Constantly had other dudes coming up to me and saying “You know I normally don’t notice black chicks at all but… goddamn.” People are people. I don’t pretend there’s no cultural differences or anything, but I do know in the end that the basic psychology for all humans is pretty much the same regardless of race.
Though if there’s one thing I have learned: never ever ever turn down the chance to attend a black bbq. The ribs will probably make you cry.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:36 pm
@yareally thanks. Some of the stuff there you’ve told me before, and I’ve internalized it and I’m doing better than you think, in some respects. Last two dates were at a bar, drinking, and only got dinner because I got hungry at 9:30 or in the last case almost 10 and needed food. Beta mistake last time was that I picked her up, so I could not just leave her. I came “this close” to ending it early and saying “I’m taking you home now,” at like 9. I had that instinct. I’m getting closer to having a break-through.
I just had a interesting thing with a hot waitress at lunch, until my uber-beta clueless friend effed it up royally. I was going for “let’s go back to my apartment right now after you get off work” and she was blushing and was intrigued, I kid you not.
I’m getting closer.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:37 pm
@anon
Your obsession with ranting about Jews is stupid.
February 23rd, 2015 at 2:58 pm
look at the executive producer of every single movie and every single thing that appears on a TV screen. (I don’t watch TV, but the gullible women who have the power to destroy families do.)
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:11 pm
@anon
No seriously, I know every point you’re going to make but let me spell this out for you: there is no fucking Jewish conspiracy. None. No really. None. Where you see conspiracies is only your human brain trying to see a fucking pattern. Add a bit of racism in and you magically have an entire race you try to blame for your fucking problems.
Every goddamn community I’ve ever seen on the internet that deals with any social issues eventually has this anti-Semitic bullshit show up. It contributes absolutely nothing useful to the discussion. Nothing. Not a goddamn thing.
Knock it the fuck off. Keep your paranoid racist delusions and conspiracy theories to yourself. It has no fucking place here.
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:16 pm
@ Anon – And now we know who Anon is. Fuck you, you racist, anti-semitic scumbag. You probably don’t even realize how stupid you sound, but that of course is not the worst of it. Stupid can be dealt with, but hate-filled, pseudo-intellectual asswipes like you? You need is to be eliminated from the gene pool much more so than any particular race or creed does. The “history” you think you know is nothing of the sort, and the way you bootstrapped your way to raging at “boomers” so ignorantly could be a case study in how the internet is turning people into dingbats. You see, it’s not what you don’t know that is the problem – it’s the things you think you know that aren’t so that is the real issue with halfwits like you.
The topics you rail about are much more complex that you seem to understand. You actually need to study history and economics and political philosophy for a while to even understand what’s going on – but I know that’s boring for you. Reading all those books and thinking and learning is hard and boring for marginal intellects like yours. It’s so much easier to watch a few YouTube videos and claim enlightenment. Lol. I bet if you ever had an original thought in your life it died of loneliness.
Fuck off now, you intellectual child. Sentient adults are speaking here and you have nothing worth adding. Another ignorant, racist MGTOW – gosh, I bet you are an anarchist libertarian too, right? I bet Stefan Molyneux is your role model, right?
You fucking pinhead.
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:29 pm
I find it bizarre how so many men can’t handle a red pill world. I don’t think I’ve ever been blue pill, I’m 30, when I was 20 I read the game and that just cemented beliefs I already had about women. Incidentally I’m now married and have two children. If it turned out my wife doesn’t care about me one bit it wouldn’t really bother me much. Life is great, there’s so much fun and joy to experience. Chill and enjoy life.
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:34 pm
@Ben
I find it bizarre how so many men can’t handle a red pill world. I don’t think I’ve ever been blue pill, I’m 30, when I was 20 I read the game and that just cemented beliefs I already had about women.
You just answered your own quandary right there. You were fortunate enough to have the resources available and consume them at just the right age. I’d say 16-20 is about when a man really needs to get the truth in his head. For many of us the resources simply weren’t there when we hit the age where we had to start dealing with women in the adult world with a lifetime of bad advice.
I didn’t even know of TRP until a year or two ago, and even then I was carefully sorting through it and comparing it to my own personal experiences for a long time before accepting it as largely true. You had a leg up that most men didn’t, that’s why it seems so bizarre to you. Their interpretation of reality to this point looks completely different from yours. That’s why it seems so bizarre.
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:35 pm
To the Boomer and Gen-Xer bashers:
Read up a little on the generational theory stuff that is out there. In short, there are 4 archetypes of 20 years that repeat every 80 years or so. Since the 1600’s the “Boomer” archetype messes things up in society. The next generation is the “Gen-X” archetype. They have to deal with the mess. There is way too much to detail here but suffice to say that The American Revolution, The US Civil War, WW2 and the current world situation are “boomer” events. The “Gen-Xers” are left with the mess. They clean it up and always have done a good job at righting the ship.
Boomers – Your time is about up, so time to get out of the way.
Gen-Xers – Quit bitching, it’s unbecoming. Just fix the world so that it works again. You won’t be thanked.
@Rollo -Sorry for the Off Topic, but the bickering between generations was getting distracting.
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:50 pm
LOL what’s the issue with race? Detroit? South Africa? The black on white crime rate? The list is pretty darn long but it amuses me when folks will only swallow a part of the red pill. Or cannot respond rationally when race orthodoxy is questioned.
February 23rd, 2015 at 3:53 pm
@SFC Ton
My issue is with whiners that see conspiracies where there are none. There are racial differences, absolutely. However, believing that one race has some conspiratorial control over all that goes on in the world is the product of two things: plain old racism and/or paranoid delusions.
One needs to fuck right off back to whatever hole they crawled out of, and the other needs a good shrink. Neither need to be taken seriously during a discussion.
February 23rd, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Major problem with fakking black women is the STDs. It’s even a problem when they’re bougies.
February 23rd, 2015 at 4:09 pm
@Tony232,
“Alpha male = who is the first among slaves”….and the video dialog.
When we learned to ride bikes, we fell, we got skinned up, we picked up our bikes, we got back on our bikes, we kept riding. Most of us did not go home and hide from everyone.
In relationships with women, you face and positively negotiate the realities involved or suffer undesirable consequences.
This site, PUA sites and other discussions about managing yourself and your relationships with women (and others) concern the social and psychological dynamics involved. Far better to engage and control, than run away.
We are not asexual like earthworms. Consequently men are programmed to desire, pursue and engage women. Men typically do this unless they choose a life of fantasy and masturbation or homosexuality as a substitute.
“MGTOW” is not realistic. Trying to force oneself permanently into it will lead to much frustration, extreme regret and neurosis. Avoiding the war is not winning the war but will guarantee loosing it because we are in it whether we like it or not. This site and the book are great starting points for those who choose to be enlightened. “Alpha” described here is not “who can score the most women”, it is a feminine ideal of male sexuality. Does the term “alpha male” instill self denigration in MGTOWs? Are MGTOW guys intimidated by women? Are they so overwhelmed by the thought of “riding the bike” that they go home without even trying? Our genetic coding strongly compels us to engage. Avoiding engagement due to fear and intimidation is THE most extreme act of submission.
February 23rd, 2015 at 4:11 pm
@theasdgamer
I’ve not dated many black women in a while as they have an even higher rate of obesity than other races, particularly in the south. The STD rate is something I’m aware of as well, but winds up being a factor I don’t even have to consider simply due to the incredible rate of obesity ruling them out right off. It’s unfortunate, as their genetics often make for simply incredible ass, hips, and tits on an in shape black chick.
February 23rd, 2015 at 4:12 pm
@ SFC Ton – Are you a racist scumbag too?
February 23rd, 2015 at 4:29 pm
Thank for your nice work, Yareally !!
February 23rd, 2015 at 5:14 pm
@ theasdgamer
Thanks for getting back to me.
You are arguing NAMGTOWALT.
I understand your point now and actually I concede and agree. Where my argument fails here is that I can only point to the potential of making one’s ideas and actions a form of ‘progeny’, by not allowing women to acheive ‘dream killer’ status in one’s life. I guess it’s the optimist in me saying “If one’s dreams aren’t killed, what is one truly capable of, the ‘progeny’ of the guys on that list are truly immortal!”
[As a joking aside, a study suggested that men are less cognitively capable around women:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/opinion/brooks-social-science-palooza-iii.html?_r=0
– maybe that explains Einstein’s hardcore contract with his wife lol]
– and ‘dream killer status’ of a woman in one’s life can be avoided by all the devices Rollo describes as well as ignoring them as many on here are aware. But potential for greatness does not mean that every MGTOW will acheive greatness, which is your point and is true to me.
Just an observation at that point though – it’s a well known adage in the Manosphere that “Men are Human Doings and Women are Human Beings” – we’re only respected for what we do for women and just being – just dreaming – is looked down upon with disgust by the FI. But a man just existing for the sake of existing – not having to procreate if he chooses (and yes, it must truly be choosing, not some form of TFL rejection buffer) – and gaming if he chooses, is truly a freedom that men would like to express amongst other things – but again that’s just supposition on my part.
On the “species death” point, I guess we’ll agree to disagree – I feel we’re not bothered about anyone before we’re born – we may become bothered about them whilst we’re around – and then as far as we know we’re not bothered again. Go placidly amongst the noise is the best path for me in that interim.
February 23rd, 2015 at 5:19 pm
@Anon.
you are such an ignorant angry beast.
did you know that even jewish men are complaining about hyperhamy ?
(i know jewish women who lives with cats)for fuck sake go and re read Rollo`s hypergamy.
it has nothing to do with race you ignorant angry racist.
i bet you , you would love to fuck a beautiful sexy jewish or black woman if they give you a hint they want to .
February 23rd, 2015 at 5:33 pm
@ Quint
I understand your point now and actually I concede and agree.
Props.
As a joking aside, a study suggested that men are less cognitively capable around women:
I resemble that remark around one particular woman. I bonded to her through dancing and I get a drip of oxytocin every time I look at her. Can’t think straight around her. It ain’t fun. Hiding from her now until the bonding goes away. Not sure why the bonding happened with her; I danced a lot more with another woman.
Maybe the fact that the bonded woman was ferally attracted to me was somehow involved. Maybe that led to some sort of engagement of libidos. She asked me to dance a lot. Maybe the back and forth of asking each other to dance moved us into the Chase, which I describe in my post on Sexual Macrodynamics.
The cognitive problems are likely due to cascades of neurotransmitters.
February 23rd, 2015 at 5:36 pm
@ Sun
I know two bougies who have great bodies and attractive faces. A white man who has dated them long term is now seeing a white woman I know. Before that, the white woman was desirable. Not any more.
I don’t have anything against dating black women other than the STD thing.
February 23rd, 2015 at 5:41 pm
MGTOW does not necessarily mean avoiding women entirely. MGTOW guys can still socialize and date women, but just don’t marry or cohabitate with women. At least that is my understanding.
February 23rd, 2015 at 5:57 pm
@YaReally
Thanks for the response and yes you made some very valid points there
how can a guy say “well look at THOSE amazing guys who didn’t reproduce but built this civilization!! I’m just like THEM!!” It’s like, ehhh I can’t really agree with that.
You are quite right, it was my exuberance for the potential of what could happen that I tripped up on. I love science and the arts and dream of a Star Trek-esque world where we are all progressing together BUT I didn’t think it through fully – i.e. it doesn’t mean that that potential will be realised.
Sandman is great at pointing out stuff – I used to listen to him often but not so much now as I found I started to need something else – no disrespect to him either – but when you just get it, to paraphrase, lol – you are left with – well what now. This is where I found the following channels worked for me
Groundwork For The Metaphysics of MGTOW
TruthOverEverything
in tandem with ReturnOfKings and obviously therationalmale.com! They deal with self improvement and really thinking for yourself. Ultimately I think men should have options. With options you can truly be free.
RP-wise the revelations Rollo’s made clear to me have helped me tremendously with “build it and they will come” – I seriously dropped the ball for a couple of years after a unhealthy LTR left me a f***ed casualty (I know, my beta fault but damn that old set of books lol) – so whilst I’m no Don Juan – I’m getting so much better with Outcome Independence and Amused Mastery and getting observable results – but I also found the Self Improvement side of MGTOW and ‘me’ time (being a human being for a change not a human doing) also helps with that foundation of improved me when I need it. Ultimately, it’s all about choices.
when I’m in my 40s I might decide to reproduce…if I get cancer I’m going to just rawdog as many chicks as possible to leave an army of me behind lol
LOL, go out in a blaze of glory when and however you decide ;)
February 23rd, 2015 at 6:07 pm
@Seraph << what that man said!
February 23rd, 2015 at 6:44 pm
@Tony232
“MGTOW does not necessarily mean avoiding women entirely. MGTOW guys can still socialize and date women, but just don’t marry or cohabitate with women. At least that is my understanding.”
That’s even MORE reason to learn some basic PUA to learn how to avoid marriage and cohabitation and oxytocin and keep them at a distance while letting them close enough to have a long-term casual relationship where you can see other girls drama free etc. instead of rejecting it all as pussy-begging.
This is basically saying “well I don’t want to learn how to TRAIN a dog, those guys who learn how to handle dogs are just supplicating to dogs! Dogs are dangerous and can kill you!!! …but I’m still going to go play in the park with dogs”…like wtf?
I mean, if you’re not going to learn how to handle them then you probably SHOULD stay away from them. Makes no logical sense lol Either choose to interact with them on your own terms and learn the skillset that allows you to manage that efficiently, or don’t learn and stay away from them entirely. Don’t have one foot in and one foot out or you’re going to get bitten.
February 23rd, 2015 at 8:35 pm
Read this and get back with me
The Culture of Critique: An Evolutionary Analysis of Jewish Involvement in Twentieth-Century Intellectual and Political Movements
February 23rd, 2015 at 8:40 pm
Or read up on how jewz drove the genocide of Russian Whites during the Soviet era.
February 23rd, 2015 at 9:14 pm
You guys.
I change the subject. Last night’s Academy Awards Ceremony was a Blue Pill train wreck like none I have ever seen on TV.
Totally stripped of any masculine traits whatsoever . No admiration for Clint or Bradley’s tale.
Apologetic to not having blacks in the nominees. I’m the least racist person I know, but I do judge people on the content of their character. I like people with good character or if they act well. I’m a wildlife habitat farmer. One of the best books I’ve read in the last couple years was about G. Washington Carver trying to advance the Agriculture of poor black sharecroppers in the Black Belt of Macon, Alabama (black being a reference to the fertile soils, not to the color of the laborers). http://www.amazon.com/Work-That-Conservation-Environmental-Washington/dp/0820338702
Blacks were treated poorly in our country. We all know it. I don’t need another lecture on the topic. At all. In a movie.
But does whining like Anon to their plight help? Do I have to watch Selma and watch MLK try to bitch slap LBJ in the oval office to justify the Demonstration of Higher Value and the Social proofs of Blacks? Cultural life is in decline. Have you not heard the news? Move on.
Do I have to watch a F-ed up movie such as boyhood where the children were losers, the mom was a loser, the dad was a loser and the end of the movie was that the girl gives the protagonist an IOI. And that was his grand sum of achievement @ 18 years old? The movie sucked. So what it took so many fucking years to film . So What? It sucked. Losers portrayed. Waste of a watching.
And then the Patricia Arquette goes on and makes a fem-equalist rant about equal pay. WTF? Acting is a meritocracy as far a pay goes. You didn’t notice? You act well and you look feminine and you get paid a lot?
You, Patricia looked like an over aged, not very attractive SJW not portraying an admirable character in the movie. Rant away for equal pay. You won’t get it based on your last performance.
Budapest Hotel: Let’s get busy and move around and not get anything actually accomplished. Illusion.
Birdland: The host of the Oscars had to demonstrate that he can show whitey tidy profile as a gay man on stage at the Oscars. To show his masculine side when all traces of masculine were totally stripped from the Ocars. This was it. His man-cod was the statement that gay guys are ????masculinish too.
Lady Gaga as a stand in for Julie Andrews. This does not compute. Wear some sleeves bitch. What is with the ugly, artful tattoos and the Julie Andrews purity? Great Voice Gaga. Questionably purity and body attraction. But then again, you are a product of this generation.
Birdman was directed by a great Mexican director who has had some great movies in the past. Birdman sucked.
And Mexicans should be given better help in Mexico by good government. Sure they should be treated nice in the USA. If they are naturalized citizens. Then they have rights.
Every movie up this year sucked except American Sniper, which was made to be more noble than real life.
And Gone Girl, which benefited by the book being written by by a Gillian Flynn that totally flipped the script and toyed with the audience. Whether it be literary devices like an unreliable narrator for the first half of the book or the totally unbelievable narrative at the end that a woman has the ability to think with Dark Triad ability (narcisissm, Machiavellianism and psychopathy) in employing a marriage strategy. Fake archetypes that fuck with the reader/audience. It works for entertainment.
Not a good movie among the bunch except for American Sniper and Gone Girl (entertainment for entertainments sake).
Oscars event and current movies blue pill as hell.
I could go on further about the blue pill messages in last nights show. I only hit a small fraction. But I am sad and tired and must retire.
Sad expose of the inherent blue pill last night.
Sorry to bore you with the change of topic. Some of us have free time gladly spent with our wives watching what is really a worthless pastime. Or not. Television is not always worthless to the Red Pill. Valuable wives (now that is a novel topic).
February 23rd, 2015 at 9:17 pm
@ YaReally
Off topic here:
I am laughing my ass off so hard right now. I was reading your article on ‘Kissing and ASD.’
I was thinking of the two girls I’ve hooked up with and I made out with them/fingered them, one of them blew me. But I never ‘sealed the deal,’ and I never heard from them again. And another girl who gave me her fucking full name and number and was all “make sure you call me soon” and I fucked that up too.
And the whole time I was reading your article….ASD means anti-slut defense right? I was like, “Oh shit. This sounds like my experiences. This is what I’ve been doing wrong?”
But I thought ASD meant “Autistic Spectrum Disorder.”
LMAO
I can’t stop laughing. “ASD siren starts going off”
And the whole time I’m just going “holy fuck, so all these girls I’ve tried to get with think I’m autistic – red flags popping up cause I was having major anxiety and was being all nervous and now they think I have autism and am a complete loser. I’m fucked, it wasn’t even my fault I ended up like this, I never had a social life, what the fuck did I do to deserve this”
And it actually MADE SENSE. Like I could see that. “Fuck, what if I really am autistic”
The ASD siren. I am dying over here. Oh my god
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:06 pm
lotta naïve brainwashed millenials here, I see. go all the way, boys. racism is realism. period. escape your YKW-education brainwashing chains.
if you claim to think the races are equal, then you are delusional or evil.
some of you complain about anon’s points and then go on to complain about the Oscars. duh. fuck dudes. you’re talking about the same thing. Oscars, Grammy’s, super bowl, etc is all part of the same MSM mass leftist social control.
women have power. they are the gatekeepers of both sex and LTRs and marriage (and children) and they are gullible herd animals (as Rollo has explained so eloquently) and they do what they are told to do on MSM TV and in movies.
they are the ones who don’t read (unless it’s 50 shades lolzolzozl)
smart guys, try applying Occam’s razor. that’s the answer to your question about why everyone gets to the same YKW conclusion. because it’s fucking true.
Henry Ford wrote clearly about it in 1915 or so. Was he an idiot? He tried to warn us. The federal reserve act happened in 1913, then what? oh…. hmm world war 1 the next year.
look very carefully at what happened in the 20th century.
the first 15 years of the 21st century (a freak show) are the next step.
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:14 pm
Sun, read carefully and stop being at the level of a 20 year old college student. I did not say any group has “conspiratorial CONTROL” like they absolutely control things like a wizard behind the curtain with godlike powers like they make things happen with a remote control. No.
But it is indisputable that YKW controls the message that gets put out in all MSM media, TV, and Hollywood. they brag about it themselves. this message influences how women think, and look at them today. It matters. One should not have to have YaReally-level skills to have a sex life with a woman under 180 pounds with less than 9 tats.
It is indisputable that YKW women constitute about 90 of the top 91 writers who originally created modern feminism, and they continue to push it today. Look at all the crap women read on jezebel, slate, etc and in wash post, NYT, and even Wall st Journal (lol a conservative alternative).. Every single time you will see it is a YKW woman author pushing ridiculous beta/feminist ideas.
Look at the executive producer of EVERY SINGLE Hollywood movie and every single TV show. That’s who provides the financing. That’s who decides the message.
Look at the head of about 80% of all government agencies and fortune 500 companies. Look at the superbowl ads and half time shows and youtube, twitter, facebook, google, etc (all MSM internet now). Pushing Miley Cyrus et al to slut it up like they do. Nonstop pushing of miscegenation for whites but Hmmmm jews still marry only jews.
Yes, I know many jewish men are suffering too, and I have many jewish friends and have my entire life. They are suffering from the same fate that we are all suffering from, from failing to control their women and men overall failing to control women, failing the nationwide massive shit test that is feminism and women’s behavior since the 1970s.
No, I would not have sex with a jew or black woman. Sorry. That’s not even “racist,” just my preference or what I’m attracted to.
I also don’t even thing YKW is evil or doing this on purpose. I think they are for some reason inherently beta and naturally in favor of communism and telling others what to do over freedom. The same thing keeps getting observed for 2,000 years. Why?
February 23rd, 2015 at 10:16 pm
“The federal reserve act happened in 1913, then what? oh…. hmm world war 1 the next year.”
You gotta be fucking kidding.
February 24th, 2015 at 12:32 am
@Sun Wukong:
re. Hypergamy vs. game
“On the contrary I think it does. If more guys came to the biological reality of female behavior through personal experience thanks to PUA/TRP, then do you think Open Hypergamy would fly once they decided to get married? Me neither.”
I agree that it most definitly wouldn’t fly.
I am not and never will be married, but see it working right now.
But the reason why it wouldn’t fly . I think that’s where we differ- wouldn’t be game, IMHO.
As soon as even a relativly small majority of regular, functioning, solid men (=beta) were to realize that hypergamy
a) really exists
b) is inside women / that they are the carriers of the hypergamy signal
they could just resort to something very simple: DIsciplining, on a individual and society-wide level.
Much easier to apply then getting caught up in the endless loops and shit tests of hypergamy.
It actually still is that way in many regions of the world, with or without violent components.
And there also is the “lifitng paradoxon”: If everybody lifts, nobody ‘gains’ – because it is the new normal to be buffed.
Same thing with game:
If everybody were to learn game while still keeping female mate choice ultra-free and without consequences (aka no male imperative) – women would just shit test even MORE and have even higher verbalized “stan-darths” –> things would go full circle.
But:
If most males were to realize game truths, things would radically change – simply because the millions of lesser to higher betas would be FORCED to confront the fact that women
a) don’t B-love them (–>resource attraction/BB)
b) don’t A-love (–> arousal/AF)
And in that split second – they would simply start disciplining women, which women are totally defenseless against.
February 24th, 2015 at 12:41 am
@ “It is indisputable that YKW women constitute about 90 of the top 91 writers who originally created modern feminism, and they continue to push it today. Look at all the crap women read on jezebel, slate, etc and in wash post, NYT, and even Wall st Journal (lol a conservative alternative).. Every single time you will see it is a YKW woman author pushing ridiculous beta/feminist ideas.”
http://tinyurl.com/oxhanpp
Actually that is not surprising. Since ancient times, jews as a collective have been stomped, although their culture/religion tells them they are the chosen ones.
As a result of their history, they apply their specific strength in the “eternal fight of nations”: Their intelligence, that has been honed even more sharply be massive social-events-driven selection.
In the battle among lions, bears and wolfs – they try to be the scorpion: Sting, let the posion work, go in hiding.
Interestingly enough, this tactic works best agianst the only countries that are slightly sympathetic to them – because for culture war and intelligence (corruption of culture, art etc.) to work, the enemy first has to listen to you at all instead of simply cutting of your head at sight.
A bitter irony: Their most prominent weapon works only on those who could be somewhat willing to tolerate them in their sphere – a self-reenforcing cycle/spiral…
February 24th, 2015 at 1:00 am
You know what I love about anti-Semites? They’re the first ones to complain about the Jews claiming victim status, yet they enable those claims by attacking them constantly. Great strategy there. Bravo.
I guess being “masculine” means hating Jews now, right? I gotta believe in a worldwide banking conspiracy and vote Ron Paul next?
Christ al-fucking-mighty. This is part of TRP people have trouble taking seriously. I’m all for having frank and honest discussions about racial issues, but a retread of the hate for Jews game is just fucking ridiculous. This shit gloms on to every community that’s the least bit counter-culture and sucks the fucking life out of it.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:16 am
@badpainter
You gotta be fucking kidding.
It’s fucked up watching paranoid delusionals get riled up, isn’t it? Shit doesn’t even make sense. It’s like you couldn’t write “CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION” big enough to get it through their fucking heads. He’s either delusional or a goddamn troll.
@447
they could just resort to something very simple: DIsciplining, on a individual and society-wide level.
They had that before. It was the social ostracism a woman suffered for not curbing her hypergamy. Divorce for cheating basically doomed her to poverty. While I don’t think dooming her to poverty is right, socially shaming her for failing to meet her marriage vows is something I would consider acceptable if it effectively removed her from the marriage pool permanently. Sounds like an effective form of discipline to me.
And there also is the “lifitng paradoxon”: If everybody lifts, nobody ‘gains’ – because it is the new normal to be buffed.
I fail to see the problem with a society where everyone is fit. Like seriously, how could I complain about that? What a nice problem to have as opposed to our current bumper crop of lazy fatasses. If it became the norm, I think women would have another problem: a country full of men who have worked hard on themselves and have self-respect aren’t going to tolerate a bunch of fat cows. Imports of women would probably rise considerably.
If everybody were to learn game while still keeping female mate choice ultra-free and without consequences (aka no male imperative) – women would just shit test even MORE and have even higher verbalized “stan-darths” –> things would go full circle.
I don’t think it would happen that way though. Look at it this way: if men began coming to these realities and found self-esteem and self-improvement en masse, the current shaming structure for men would fall the fuck apart. It would be impossible to have a mass movement without the Male Imperative reasserting itself. You can’t know and do these things and remain checked out. You get involved in your own life, then the society around you. You become (as Gandhi put it) the change you wish to see in the world. Enough men doing that would change society as a natural consequence, I suspect.
This, of course, supposes the change didn’t happen overnight. If it happened overnight your scenario might hold. But let’s be honest: how likely is that? Not very. Even at my most optimistic estimate, men won’t recover from what’s happened in considerable numbers for a generation or two. I think societal change would have time to happen alongside a change in the general male attitude. I think the discipline would ultimately just take the form of societal shaming.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:25 am
I dunno what the fuck happened to this place today, but it’s like the fucking crazy came out of the goddamn wood work. Y’all need to go re-up on your anti-psychotics, maybe talk to the doc about increasing the dosage.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:28 am
Scarlett Johansson
.Natalie Portman
Jennifer Connelly
Kerry Washington
Zoe Saldana
Halle Berry
Beyoncé Knowles
Anon the nut said :
No, I would not have sex with a jew or black woman. Sorry. That’s not even “racist,” just my preference or what I’m attracted to.
“Preference”!!
Women from the above list would rather fuck a dog than be with a nut like you.
Here is your sad pathetic truth, ,
If one of those woman got mad or something and asked you to fuck her, ALL your sad miserable principles would go strait into the toilet ((where they belong)).
February 24th, 2015 at 1:54 am
@ Sun Wukong
I’m waiting with nervous anticipation for him start in on the Freemasons.
Seriously do these people ever study history? The idea of the Fed being a proximate cause of WWI is so stupid that it mocks itself. The last thing a group of inbred royals needed to start that mess was an isolationist mid-power nation to create a national bank.
February 24th, 2015 at 2:00 am
One last thought!
Reading some of the nuts here remind me of the(hidden) resentment of American women towards George Clooney marrying an A-rab.
Her hypergamy over ran all the all American girl hypergamy.
You racists pigs, don’t you see?
Hypergamy doesn’t care about you racist pigs.
February 24th, 2015 at 3:23 am
First time comment.
As a rock solid INFP Myers-Briggs personality I will never ever be a native alpha. Not even going to try to pretend.
Having said that – nothing much I’ve read here has surprised me all that much. I admire Rollo’s fine ability to package up the concepts coherently – and I enjoy reading the threads. But challenging and revolutionary – not so much. By the time you have reached 60 you should have lived through most of this and be able to recognise it all when plainly expressed.
The big value red-pill value for me has been to provide a solid framework to understand my life. It all makes a lot more sense now – and while of course there are plenty of ignorant mistakes I would like to go back and change if I could, there is no point in getting anxious about it. Best to accept, understand and move on constructively.
I’m fortunate that my partner is a reasonable, responsible and reliable woman. She isn’t immune to her biology and can be a rather too controlling at times – but she rarely does drama or insane shit-tests either. What has changed is that I’m now more aloof or detached from it – I conciously recognise when the hamster brain is trying to take over and can generally hose it down before it gets unpleasant.
The main rule is to make up my mind what I want the outcome to be, state it clearly in terms of what I want – and then shutup and listen. If necessary go down the road and get a coffee for myself, read the paper, go for a pleasant walk and think about something else important to you. Works everytime.
There are several big goals I want to achieve in the next decade or so – health and grace willing – and I’ve made it clear I will be doing them on my own terms. If she wants to happily participate she’s welcome – but she now understands that she isn’t going to be allowed to be an obstacle.
Of course this plays both ways. I always support what she wants to do, and never get in the way of that.
I’ve changed the way I walk and interact with people slightly. I take up more room, modulate my voice more assertively and with more life, and when to shut up and let the other guy make a fool of himself. I found if interesting to try small behavioral experiments and see what the responses are. I’d suggest it’s a mistake to try and re-invent yourself overnight. What does work are small, incremental changes that you can work on over time.
Our sex life is interesting and varied – and quite often enough thank you. For a period she lost interest, but after a few whiny false starts I just made it clear that if she was going to cheat on the relationship by failing to make sex attractive and compelling – then I would have no problems finding my own ways of making it interesting for myself. It wasn’t an ultimatum. My own actions demonstrated that this was exactly what I would do. Things turned around quite nicely thank you.
As I said above, no-one will ever mistake me for your classic alpha male. But claiming my own agency and actively investing in choices that are important to me has been valuable and rewarding. That bitter blue-pill taste does fade quite quickly once you start choosing your future for yourself.
February 24th, 2015 at 3:51 am
Being masculine includes preserving your clan and wanting to see your people prosper, thrive and grow and does not include watching the academy awards.
February 24th, 2015 at 4:08 am
@SFC Ton.
When a man reaches the age of maturity he needs to invest his wealth in himself, his family and the community around him. In that order.
In that order…..
February 24th, 2015 at 8:29 am
Haha, dude – check this one out. It’s almost laughably precise as a confirmation of “manosphere” ideas. It’s only funny to me because I was just before reading some feminist anti-manosphere rants, which are really like looking through the wrong end of the telescope.
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/24/when-the-best-sex-is-extramarital/
February 24th, 2015 at 9:43 am
“Being masculine includes preserving your clan and wanting to see your people prosper, thrive and grow and does not include watching the academy awards.”
I agree wholeheartedly. It is by no means masculine. Watching TV for the most part is feminine. (Except for watching shows like Breaking Bad and Sons of Anarchy.)
But sometimes one has done well to preserve their clan and the family is in a good place, his father just went MEMENTO MORI (knew how to die on time) on him (knew how to die on time)and he needs to relax, kick back and sip some Dickel single barrel 14 year of bourbon and watch a train wreck.
Just because he can.
Not all a waste of time because observing large scale social mores can be telling. Behavioral psychology on a mass scale.
And if one is alpha enough for the wife to not want to walk away with cash and prizes after 24.8 years, a bit of beta is allowed.
I do understand you are just fitness testing me TON. How’s that for a beta response?
February 24th, 2015 at 10:08 am
@ All – Let me make something clear. If you racist, anti-semitic morons don’t shut the fuck up, I’m going to burn this thread down and keep doing so until nobody comments anymore. Last warning. Take your bigoted ignorance and shove it up your asses. And don’t even try to lecture me about the economics or history – I know it far better than you ignorant boors ever will.
What is true that there are differences between races and ethnic groups that have both biological and cultural bases. Innate intelligence, physical abilities and many behavioral traits do vary across race. But what MORONS like Anon and SFC Ton gloss over is that the variations in humans is greater within race than between races. There is more difference between white peoples than their is between black and white people, on average.
As for their infantile understanding of global finance, central banking and economics, all one can do is laugh. As someone who worked in the highest levels of global finance and the derivatives business for a long time, you should know that me and my peers just laugh at these guys, who attempt to explain economics through their frothing hate. It doesn’t even have to be bigoted, just listen to say Max Keiser on RT – and you’ll hear the same brand of ridiculous, paranoid conspiracy mongering. In the libertarian sphere, there are some good critiques of our banking and monetary system, and I actually support Free Banking, check out freebanking.org – but watch it, they aren’t friendly to bigots there, they are actually intellectuals and academics who shun hateful shitheads like Lew Rockwell, and believe that politicized and govt controlled money is a disaster and temptation for politicians. Being critical of our banking and monetary system does not require one to hate Jews.
Anyone actually interested in a great critique of our banking system should read David Stockman’s The Great Deformation. He takes apart the entire system over the past couple of hundred years and lays it out for all to see. And guess what? There are no hook-nosed Jewish conspirators driving this all. It’s politicians that are the problem – Jews, Christians and Atheists alike. It’s those who want govt to “manage” our society and economy that is the problem.
I also understand that people do form themselves into groups and that is part of how humanity progresses. In fact, inter-group competition and group selection/evolution is a powerful force that advances human civilization and progress. I can love being of Irish descent and being an American and make common cause with those groups without hating others. The entire cosmopolitan American experiment was set up so different groups could co-exist in a public sphere in which people of very different creeds and cultures would meet on the common ground of individual liberty.
Where we’ve gone wrong is in the radical egalitarianism that is informing our society and destroying it in so many ways. People are not “equal” – but the law should treat them equally when it exercises it’s powers. We’ve actually already proved this can work but most people seem to forget that. And it’s also true that culture is important and that destroying it with insane immigration policies is a bad idea.
As for the criminality of blacks, I just have to laugh. Charles Murray wrote a great book after his Beyond the Bell Curve entitled Coming Apart. Due to how horribly he was pilloried for discussing differences in IQ across races, he studied only white working class America. And what becomes very clear is that the social pathologies that plague poor/working class whites are the same exact ones that plague black poor/working class people. The degree is a different, but only marginally. It becomes very clear that the issue is class/economics and culture, not race. Even if it’s true that thug culture has overtaken the working class/poor in the U.S., that doesn’t mean the logical response is to be a racist.
As recently as 1950 blacks were making great progress in our society. Working, criminality, marriage, wealth, education – all were similar to that of whites. It’s only when we begin the civil rights movement and the war on poverty that the black family begins to disintegrate. Daniel Moynihan predicted the outcome of these policies 50 years ago (I’m sure neither of you dingbats even know who he is).
But hey, I actually am interested in the truth, not a reason to hate people I already hate.
So, racist assholes, shut the fuck up or i’ll ruin this site. Your choice.
February 24th, 2015 at 11:35 am
“Preserving your clan”? I believe you failed to spell it with a k.
These rationalizations for racism within the ‘sphere will kill it. And yeah, I know you’re thinking SJW because I dared call it out, but I know the difference between a frank discussion of race and bigoted hatred along racial lines. This shit falls in the latter.
February 24th, 2015 at 11:48 am
Geez I ignore the comments to take care of my dog for a day and stormfront decides to co-opt the ‘sphere.
February 24th, 2015 at 12:21 pm
@Rollo
No shit, bro. These motherfuckers are the whole reason I don’t bother to comment over at RoK. Every thread devolves in to Jew-hating within 10 posts.
February 24th, 2015 at 12:39 pm
I’ve noticed a concerted undercurrent to characterize TRP as racist recently. It’s easy to take a few selected comments from racist plants out of context to mischaracterize the entirety of TRP
February 24th, 2015 at 1:00 pm
I don’t know if it’s the racism or the lunatic conspiracy theories that leave me the most disgusted. Regardless, I don’t think they’re plants. I’ve watched these nutjobs move in to every subculture that sounds willing to accept alternative views for the last 20 years. Every time they sound exactly the same.
I think it’s genuine cases of paranoid delusionals thinking they’ve found kindred souls when they haven’t.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
@ Rollo – Uhh, no. In fact, racist commentary is quite common on Return of Kings and Chateau Heartsite and it’s permitted so they earn the reputation of being a cesspit of racist hate. It’s accurate to call those sites that. People who frequent it and comment there do so at peril to their own reputations. I stopped going there once it became clear what is allowed. You continue to do so to the detriment of your own standing in the world, Rollo. I denigrate and face down bigots every time they show up in my world, where ever they are. Period. And I don’t go to sites where they are welcome.
Perhaps it’s all a bit clearer to me because of my half black niece and black sister in law, both of whom I love dearly. I imagine them when dealing with human detritus like SFC Ton or ANON. And I don’t care what else they have to say – if you are a racist, you are a piece of shit and not fit to be in my company. If you keep your mouth shut, I’ll leave you alone, but still despise you. Open your mouth? I’ll rip you apart. Face to face, or on line.
Why others have a “live and let live” attitude about this is a mystery to me. I’m not tolerant of bigotry – nobody should be. Including you, Rollo.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:02 pm
Glenn: Threatening to ruin Rollo’s great site. Who’s to be taken seriously here? There should be an age requirement to comment. Is David Stockman YKW? lzolzolzozlolz. And which publishing house published that book? And who controlled said publishing house? Dig deeper. Glenn, you need to chill the fuck out before Rollo bans us both. I’m am simply stating my opinions in a respectful manner. Don’t come here and threaten to ruin Rollo’s great blog with spam. You sound like a leftist YKW by the way. They love to impose censorship and throw a hissyfit instead of simply debating calmly when they are confronted with unpleasant truths they don’t like. Perhaps you belong over at jezebel? You don’t get to “yell” with that type of hysteria (are you a woman?) and tell others not to comment. Even Rollo is very liberal with allowing the discussion here. It’s his blog.
Some of you are complaining about things like the Oscars and:
@447
they could just resort to something very simple: DIsciplining, on a individual and society-wide level.
They had that before. It was the social ostracism a woman suffered for not curbing her hypergamy. Divorce for cheating basically doomed her to poverty. While I don’t think dooming her to poverty is right, socially shaming her for failing to meet her marriage vows is something I would consider acceptable if it effectively removed her from the marriage pool permanently. Sounds like an effective form of discipline to me.
….
Are you serious!?!? lzolzozlzoz Are you serious? Again, um … and just who has taken over the law and social mores (societal norms) that have pushed and allowed women to not respect normal men, marriage, or family, and suffer no consequences, either legal or social?
Hmmmm. Jesus dude. You might not have some of the insight I have, so I’ll give you a pass. I happen to know, very very well, exactly who is controlling the courts (engaging in judicial aggrandizement to put for their view of what the law should be, overruling the legislative branch, the will of the people), and, again, every single thing that women have seen on a TV screen for the last 30 years. If you claim to have swallowed the red pill, I don’t see how you can simply see things like the super bowl ads, what’s on the Disney channel, etc and not just think “holy shit”. It’s horrifying and difficult to swallow.
Most of what you say, I have said. Yes, in the past, societal norms encouraged women to be married and consider themselves very scared of being spinsters if they were still single after 25. And divorce was harder. Today not only is that not the case, society (through MSM) actively encourages women to get divorces, even if there are children, based on her feelings. And actively pushes women away from marriage in the first place if they are younger than 30. Jezebel et al. tell these women they are too young and should do a few more years of alpha fux first. Sheryl Sandberg wrote about it openly (hmmmm) as covered at length by Rollo. Open hypergamy pushed openly by whoever controls publishing, media, TV, mainstream internet, etc.
Thank you to whoever above posted the graphic. Saved me the trouble.
Also: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html
(you don’t get to criticize this article unless you’ve read it carefully)
In any event, you guys agree with the complaint about modern women being obese (way too high %), tatted up, obnoxious, can’t cook, actively brag about “it is not my job to care what a man thinks,” Miley Cyrus doing what she does (teaching the 14 year old girls to be that way), etc.
Women’s “liberation” really ramped up in the 1970s, right? Nobody disagrees. And look at the state of women today. Look at Gen X — millions of them now about 38 to 40, getting ready to grow old without grandchildren or a husband. This was done to them on purpose. They are victims. They did what Madonna told them to do in the 1980s – “Don’t go for second best, baby — you’re too much better, baby, on your own.” And today with Taylor Swift, Miley, Lady Gaga, the same.
And who controls exactly 100% of all major record companies? lzozlzlzo Even legends like Buddy Holly had a problem due to that factor. Whoever it is decides what gets put out as a record. Even today with the music industry supposedly dead, it’s the same. Youtube is also MSM. THey control what the kids watch so that Miley’s new porn vid gets 150M views in the first 24 hours. The kids watch what they are told to watch.
GBFM’s blog was DELETED against his will because he simply writes about and cites directly to biblical words. (I’m not saying that was an anti-Christianity thing; I’m saying that twitter, wordpress, google, blogger are all firmly leftist “narrative control” (“PC”) entities. I think that Heartiste will get his blog “disappeared” one day too. When you see that happen, you will know that we are in trouble.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:05 pm
Glenn decides his views based on solipsism and personal anecdote, just like a woman. He just freely admitted it. Exceptions prove the rule. If you have read the Bell Curve, you know that the authors went out of their way, bent over backwards, to try to not reach the conclusions they were forced to reach. They tried to address the question with which we are all struggling: knowing that 20% of the population has an average IQ of 80, what social policies should we have to create the best and safest life possible for all? The left wants to deny obvious truths and impose censorship, literally, and cannot even entertain a debate without stomping their feet and running away, literally, just like a woman, in fact.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:08 pm
@ Anon – Arguing with you would be like discussing particle physics with my 5 year old nephew. I don’t bother.
The funniest bit is that you persist in trying to inform me. What’s clear is that you are operating at such a lower level of intellect that there is no point engaging you. Just take central banking, monetary systems and the economy, douche bag, I could school you for the next 5 years on that topic and have real experience and knowledge in that world. What do you have? Ideas you’ve picked up by other idiots and haters from websites and YouTube?
Do you get how absurd you are? How pathetic? How ignorant?
February 24th, 2015 at 1:10 pm
These jew accusations are absurd. And especially all this race talk!
Why don’t we come back to the original topic, gentlemen?
February 24th, 2015 at 1:11 pm
@Glenn, I got that. Lets just say I’m noticing it more on Twitter and other forums as well now. My policy has always been about an open forum, but I will prevent blatant spam and if it’s persistent racism or some woman ceaselessly bleating about her fucked up life choices I’ll ban that.
I’ve always advocated that the Red Pill needs to be apolitical, a-racial, areligious, etc. As TRP goes more mainstream there will be increasing efforts to co-brand it with particular interests. Purple Pill coaches, “Red Pill Women”, anti-feminist feminists, and racially supremicists all have their dibs on TRP.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:14 pm
FWIW, I’m getting the impression that anon is GBFM. The profile fits.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
Glenn, I’m a lawyer and have been one for nearly 2 decades. I have inside knowledge too. You seem to have a huge spergish ego about being in finance and banking. I dropped that topic 5 comments ago. I’m talking about who controls publishing houses and every single thing that is presented on a TV screen and in movies, which women rely on for 99.5% of their “knowledge.” But anyway…
I’m going to stop replying on this topic, because I enjoy Rollo’s blog very much and I don’t want to get banned.
Rollo, thanks for not doing that already. I’m done on this topic. I actually had not realized that many of the commenters here are not more in line with some of the CH view.
We can agree to disagree. Glenn, in my opinion, nobody who uses the word “racism” as a slur can be taken seriously as, frankly, even a red pill person. That is straight up blue pill MSM narrative control. Look at the recent Ferguson debacle. Don’t even get me started. Those saying what I’m saying have a right to be pissed, at this point. There is a race problem in this country, and it’s not white men or white men’s failure to tweak (again) the education just right to help those who are below functioning in a modern world. 80 IQ is 80 IQ and no amount of censorship or narrative control can change that fact.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:19 pm
“The left! The Jews! The left! The Jews!”
It’s like listening to a broken record. If it’s not about the Jews it’s about the right/left dichotomy. Anyone not agreeing with your bigoted view of the world is shouted down as a “leftist”. Seriously, crawl the fuck back in whichever hole you came from and shut the fuck up.
People come here for a more intellectual take on TRP, but this tripe just muddies the water with blithe ignorance. Take it elsewhere. CH, RoK, and Roosh will be just fine with this shit as they’ve already shown. Go make them your echo chamber.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:20 pm
I’m not GBFM. He’s far better read and educated than I. But I believe his views were spot on, even if written in code.
I believe it is scary that his blog was disappeared against his will, and it proves many of my points. I’m not even talking about race. It is simply clear that mainstream internet (wordpress, google, twitter) are firmly in the hands of leftist “narrative control.” Last December the official twitter offices had #blacklivesmatter painted on the walls, and bragged about it. Also it is indisputable that the left is in favor of censorship, and tries to censor even things that are really not debatable, such as hypergamy (you agree with me on that one!). Like this guy points out (http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html) try to state even a moderately conservative view on any leftist blog or places like jezebel, and you are banned. Yet CH et all allow women to comment on their blogs.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:22 pm
Not on RoK
February 24th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Glenn, in my opinion, nobody who uses the word “racism” as a slur can be taken seriously as, frankly, even a red pill person. That is straight up blue pill MSM narrative control.
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
That’s just YOUR excuse to have irrational hate for a group of people then put yourself above argument. News flash: just because your view is different doesn’t mean it’s true. Just because we’re having rational discussions here without placing typical societal restrictions on them doesn’t mean blatant racial hate-mongering stated as fact is now A-OK.
A simple application of Occam’s Razor disproves your entire argument, but you’re too ignorant to see it.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:25 pm
Rollo is arguing NAMSALT (Not All Manosphere Sites Are Like That). Weak. The manosphere is far more open to discussion than feminist sites.
February 24th, 2015 at 1:29 pm
Sun,
Generally, anon’s point about Blue Pill usage of “racism” is correct. Most usage of “racism” is the Blue Pill narrative. You are definitely way too emotional about this. anon is very rational by comparison.
Otoh, I don’t see any discussion of racism here or the Juice as helpful.