In the last comment thread Rational Male regular, Glenn, had an interesting exchange that went like this:
My marriage exactly. And she really did turn on me by the time my daughter was 2, also having two miscarriages. It was as though a switch went off and she simply fucking hated me. In my case, I had too much dignity and many women who were interested in me who seemed quite fine, so I put my foot down and my ex then just began an affair with a Plan B she had in the wings (hotties always have a Plan B guys, especially wives). She married him and destroyed him too, but it wrecked my relationship with my daughter along the way. So much destruction and pain.
I often look back on my marriage now from the RP perspective and have started to blame myself for not being more dominant and not seeing shit tests for what they were etc, but I also wonder if there was anything I could have done? She was hot, there were always good looking guys willing to fuck her – I mean, is it just inevitable for some women?
As I’m finishing up the final edits of the next book, I’m once again reminded of its main purpose – a cautionary explanation of what men can expect of contemporary women at the various phases of their maturity. In Anger Management I detailed the anger men direct at themselves, not at the women who followed a natural predictable ‘flow’ of rationalizations and social conventions they can be expected to as their conditions in life dictate. Naturally any anger a man may deal with or express in this regard is always presumed to be directed towards women. A feminine dominant social order is one founded on the innate solipsism of women.
Now, before I dig in a bit deeper here, I want to make clear that while Glenn’s comment started my thinking process about this week’s topic, what I’m going to get at here isn’t a reflection on anything personal. His story of being “turned on” by a wife he believed was playing on his team is a very common one related by many a post-divorced man using the hindsight of a Red Pill lens.
I’m adding this caveat since only Glenn can really say for himself whether his mindset at the time he first met, and later married, the wife who turned on him was colored by Blue Pill idealism and / or a Beta self-perception. My guess, as with most men in his situation, was that he actually had what was a realistic expectation of a reciprocal relationship based on what he thought would be her genuine appreciation of his efforts and merits.
Betas at the Epiphany
I’ve discussed in several prior threads the Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks strategy women use in both the short and long term. What I think needs a bit more explanation is the long term effects of that strategy on the Beta man’s mindset as a result of his fem-centric conditioning.
When a woman approaches and enters into her Epiphany Phase, she has a limbic understanding that her genetic chips need to be cashed in with a man who has ‘proper’ long term provisioning potential. For the greater part, those men are at least expected by women to have a Blue Pill, Beta conditioning that will make them more compliant with, now, what’s becoming an unignorable open Hypergamy.
These are the men Sheryl Sandberg describes as,
“…someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious. Someone who values fairness and expects or, even better, wants to do his share in the home.”
These are nice euphemisms used to describe a man willing to accept his position of powerlessness in the grand scheme of feminine-primacy and open Hypergamy for his participation in realizing women’s dominant sexual strategy.
The Beta man encountering this new found attraction convinces himself that women’s interest in him is genuine and organic. In a sense it is, but although this attraction (not to be confused with arousal) is perceived as genuine on the part of women, it’s an attraction born of necessity. That necessity is the need to consolidate on monogamy with a man who’ll willingly ignore not just her past Alpha Fucks indiscretions, but participate in what he’s been conditioned to believe is his duty as a man from society and start to build a “mature adult” life with her.
A Beta at the Epiphany phase believes his ship has finally come in and his self-righteous AFC strategy of patience and perseverance will be rewarded. The social conventions at the time make him believe he’s to be more lauded for ‘forgiving’ a woman’s past, irrespective of whether he can expect praise for looking past her misgivings.
The Alpha Widow or carousel riding wife-to-be may then convince herself that she in fact actually sees an Alpha potential, or a potential for long term success, in ‘settling’ on that Beta in the long term. While I have had men relate horror stories about women knowing that they were settling and being insecure about their futures before or at the time of their wedding, I’m going to suggest that this foreknowledge is rarely a conscious aspect of women’s insight. “Turning” on their husband-to-be later in is life rarely a preconceived plan, but it is a predictable outcome for men who persist in a Beta mindset throughout their marriages.
Getting Her Settled Best
Saving the Best continues to be a seminal post on Rational Male, not the least of which because so many men could relate to the experience. However, this may not have been the experience of discovering a sexual past his wife had no intention of ever allowing him to share with her , but rather the expectation men have of receiving a woman’s ‘sexual best’ in marriage. That may not amount to the sexual experimentation she had in her Party Years, but for a Beta who believes his patience and virtue are to be rewarded at long last it is an expectation of enjoying the same or better sexual urgency his wife-to-be shared with her past lovers.
That Beta believes it’s his turn, because why else would a woman commit to a lifetime investment in a man she didn’t think was her best option?
Remember, during the Epiphany Phase a woman’s rationale for choosing the Beta for a long term investment is because she’s “experienced it all” and finally “knows better than to keep dating the Bad Boys who don’t appreciate her.” Thus the Beta believes he must be the best option for her by virtue of her investment in that belief.
And if she’s finally come to realize he’s the best option, why would she not expect to enjoy her best sexual performance with him? After all, even Sheryl Sandberg said, “…in time, nothing’s sexier.”
For the Alpha Widow marrying the Beta-in-waiting, the comparison of his sexual appeal with prior lovers conflicts with her need to finalize the long term security she couldn’t with her previous Alphas (or the men she perceived as Alpha). Thus comes reserved, self-restrained and self-conscious sex with her new Beta provider. She knows that sex with her Beta lacks the intensity of her prior lovers, but falls back on her Epiphany Phase rationalizations that she’s “doing it for the right reasons this time”.
That right reason being of course getting pregnant to further consolidate long term provisioning.
Our Beta simply lacks the same sexual experience as his wife-to-be to know any better (unless of course he finds proof of that experience later), but he gradually suspects her progressive lack of passion, reservations and self-consciousness by comparing it to porn or some of the other women’s he’s had sex with.
Social conventions abound for women to rely on as they become less incentivized to have sex with their Beta after the first child. Body image considerations, ‘mismatched libidos’ and “well, sex is supposed to taper off after marriage, everyone knows that” are just some of the prepackaged tropes ready for use.
The Turning
Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. The sex “reward”, the ‘cookie time for good boy’, for desired behavior or performance ‘turns’ off, or sex is used as an intermittent reward for desired behavior (i.e. Choreplay). Sex becomes a utility; a positive reinforcer for her Beta increasing his provisioning capacity rather than the true visceral enjoyment she had with her past lovers.
This new functionality sex represents to a wife becomes ‘turning’ on her husband who believed he would always be her most intimate priority. In the instance of a woman marrying her ‘Alpha Provider’ this may in fact be the case, but as with the hierarchies of love that Alpha doesn’t have the same concern with, and didn’t marry his wife under the same pre-expectations a Beta does.
For the man who persists in his Beta mindset (or the guy who regresses into that mindset) this ‘turning’ becomes more and more pronounced. The turning comes out of the bedroom and into other aspects of their relationship – finances, familial ties, her expectations of his ambitiousness, his asserting himself at work or with their mutual friends – on more and more fronts he’s compared to other men and the ghosts of the Alphas she knows or has known.
Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent; “Is sex all that’s important to you?” It shouldn’t be, because it’s really “what’s on the inside that counts”, but he can’t shake the feeling he’s slipping out of her respect.
This is when Beta Dad doubles down. His Blue Pill expectations of himself require an all-consuming, self-sacrificing predisposition. The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get tough.
So he waits it out, but she’s ‘turned’ on him by this point. It wasn’t planned, but all of his martyr-like determination only makes her that much more resentful for having settled on this Beta. After a certain stressing point, her disinterest or indignation goes even beyond his capacity to stay committed to a losing investment. These are the guys who tell me, “Damn Rollo, where where you when I was 30? I wish I’d known then what I know now.”
Do all marriages and relationships follow this schedule? No, but it’s important that men know the signs, understand what’s really expected of them and know when they’re being settled on despite all a woman’s self-interested refutations of that. It’s important they realize that performance isn’t limited to how well they meet a woman’s expectations, but that performance means ignoring those preconceptions and exceeding them because he has a passion to excel on his own, and for himself.
It’s important that he lives in his own Frame and that any woman, wife or otherwise, participates in his Frame at his pleasure. Beta men rarely have those expectations, beginning from a position of scarcity and a preconditioned responsibility to forgive a woman’s sexual strategy while still being gushingly appreciative that she chose him to settle on.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:21 pm
as the National Post article confirms looks are everything. alpha fucks equals looks.
and looks equals alpha fucks.
it’s simple.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:38 pm
^^^^^
On the night of my 21st birthday
This is what my future wife told me.
“Why were you late to my parents house? It makes me so mad when you’re late.” She was disappointed in me all night. When her parents went to bed I let her have it.
On the morning of my 45th birthday a couple months ago
Same women, 24 years later.
Here is a list of 45 things you do that I love and appreciate. She presented me with 45 cards. Each listed the real things that I do to support her and the family. Very thoughtful. Night and day difference.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:42 pm
re: Ottawa study.
“survey respondents were more likely to have casual sex to “change the topic of conversation” or relieve a headache than to do it in exchange for money or drugs.”
That’s Canadia for ya.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:47 pm
@Nathan, you can’t go by what women say since women don’t know what they mean by attractiveness. In those studies that have directly compared looks vs dominance for casual sex, it was dominant men all the way, not facial attractiveness.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:51 pm
@ Nathan
as the National Post article confirms looks are everything. alpha fucks equals looks. and looks equals alpha fucks. it’s simple.
Girls don’t know what they want until you show them. Nobody wanted an Ipad until after Apple showed it to the public. Girls respond to good game whether it shows up in the list or not. If you’ve got good game you can sail past many girls height/looks requirements.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:52 pm
Re: National Post article. Also linked is “Women twice as likely to have orgasms in committed relationships than one-night sex hookups: study”
So in addition to “looks”, it must be a lot murkier what women mean by “feels good” and “I was horny” than what men mean.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:53 pm
@Nathan. Don’t get pretty, get big.
January 20th, 2015 at 7:55 pm
“I was secretly hoping he would like me better after I gave him sexual inducements. But it didn’t work. But I won’t admit that.”
January 20th, 2015 at 7:58 pm
@Rollo,
Good study. I’ve found over the last year that if I don’t give women the belief or fantasy that sex with me is going to be good then they aren’t gonna bite. Talking about my exploits, while seeming counter productive at first, only makes them more eager to be another notch. And I’m sure my physical appearance plays a big part. Have had to learn to overcome shit tests about the age difference at first. Now I just never ever let it become anything to think about. I never bring up my age at all. I just let them guess and fantasize about it. When I brought it up is when the shit tests started to fly. Though I guess it’s good to learn to pass them.
Actually I guess there can be a beginning of such tests now. I just pass them without any thought at all.
Young women are looking for sex first. So since that’s the beginning of a relationship I see little reason to give in to any of their demands.
January 20th, 2015 at 8:02 pm
@Nathan,
If your game is good and you pull a girl into your frame you can get the sex you want. During my overweight period 11 years ago I had a lot of fun one summer with an incredibly hot 5′ 2″ 90 pound black haired beauty. We’re still friends. She’s finally getting off the CC to marry some professor. Though she has a PhD and is also a professor now. Though it’s quite clear that things would have been much easier for me and much more fun for her should I have my current body. Lose weight and get in the gym. Will change so much for you after a year or two.
January 20th, 2015 at 8:08 pm
@ StringsofCoins
Young women are looking for sex first.
If that’s true women have markedly changed since 1990.
January 20th, 2015 at 9:06 pm
Badpainter,
eon: “A man with the necessary potential can transition into an Alpha, but he must do so alone, without the help of women, or men.”
Badpainter: “Then how is this emotional support a benefit of greater worth than a mint on a pillow? If I do all the work myself, which means by necessity ignoring the doubters and critics, then why is this valuable if it is not actually helpful to the process? I obviously don’t need it to make the journey, why do I want it at the end?”
Because it is helpful to processes, just not that one.
.
If you will remember, the conversation started like this:
eon: “In a complementary relationship, both get more than they give, because they each get what they cannot create for themselves.”
Badpainter: “For the man, other than giving live birth, what would that be? I have yet to find anything I want or need, that actually exists, that I can’t create or obtain for myself by spending extra time at labor and simply buying or contracting for services.”
eon: “One possibility is that a woman can be a positive emotional catalyst, which is mentally, and especially physiologically, extremely beneficial to a man. Such a catalyst is independent input, and thus can only be provided by someone else.”
.
It is of greater worth than a mint on a pillow because, depending on his mental and physiological receptors, and their interaction, and on the form of the input that she provides, it can be a catalyst that enables or intensifies beneficial, or even more significant, functions and processes.
But we were talking there about the benefits of a (comprehensive) complementary relationship, which requires an Alpha mindset to initiate and to maintain for any length of time, and thus being Alpha is a prerequisite.
How to become Alpha is a difficult question, but also one that is separate from the question about a benefit of a complementary relationship.
And it is impossible for a woman to turn a man into an Alpha, just like it is impossible for you to create someone who is superior to you, and thus independent of you.
January 20th, 2015 at 9:08 pm
this is the study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25567073
Women’s Motivations to Have Sex in Casual and Committed Relationships with Male and Female Partners
“… and suggest a high degree of similarity in motivation for women, regardless of sexual orientation or gender of partner”
note that they tend not to be that rigorous in their survey methodologies
January 20th, 2015 at 9:20 pm
Haven’t been posting much lately, but have been reading.. just wanted to chime in and say thanks to everyone .. and Rollo of course for the great comments and post.
One thing Rollo: you say men in their 40s ask where were you 20yrs ago.. I say thanks you for being here now. I often get a little down on myself for not getting married and having kids.. in the end I just didn’t feel right taking the bait of exes who wanted to and always felt something was “off” and not right.. reading this post today makes me so glad I didn’t. That I trusted my instincts, because looking back I can see that this is exactly how my life would have turned out.
@razr- great comments, you and I seem to be on the same age/growth curve at the moment. All you write resonates with my experience
January 20th, 2015 at 9:32 pm
Rollo, you hit the nail on head so many times with this one. Fellas remember this, you were a plan B never plan A. Don’t risk waste years of your labor to pay for alimony, for some girls plan B.
January 20th, 2015 at 10:25 pm
[…] my entire life to the care and happiness of my family in some sort of attempt at martyrdom. This post from Rollo couldn’t possibly describe my marriage any better. My wife was on the highest […]
January 20th, 2015 at 10:37 pm
@ eon
Again, I’ll take your word for it.
If the time comes when I arrive at that point my ability to suspend disbelief may be completely shot, but I suppose that’s a minor side effect. If I don’t recognize it, well I never really believed in the first place. No great loss in that case.
January 20th, 2015 at 10:37 pm
@Bad Painter… how is marriage beneficial to a man? (this is a good/best scenario – where both partners have decided to meet each others’ needs and commit to each other only). Benefits: amazing sex (I know… apparently many women drop the ball on this one, but if you’re up front about this as being a non-negotiable in your marriage, then its out there and should be a benefit), constant (through the years) & frequent passionate sex (again, apparently very hard to find… same above disclosure applies), a partner in doing life together, a companion to pursue goals (any life goals… financial, children, vacation/travel, adventures) and hobbies (going to the gym, dancing, sporting events, etc.) together, not feeling lonely, having someone understand you intimately (feeling safe and secure with them – not just from familiarity, but also from them being trustworthy), someone to tell your deepest thoughts and fears to (without having them use them against you), someone to relax with… there are times when my husband is unwinding from work and playing a video game and I’m relaxing with him reading or writing something… we’re both there, lying on each other, but this kind of relaxing is what he says is something he truly values. Not having to “do” anything, just “being still” together.
@Black Poison Soul – haha… not a “Red Pill Woman” lol even the name is ridiculous. “perfect housewife” ?!?! I don’t even!
I came here sometime in late 2013 because Monkeywerks (a past commenter here) re-blogged my “Why Mistresses Get Your Men” post and I saw the Rational Male on his blogroll. I think it was fate that I found this unique, addictive site – I started reading a bit and realized my younger brother could really use this knowledge. He has “game” now – definitely spinning plates….
I think I use the information (Rollo’s posts & definitely the comments) to just broaden my knowledge – kind of like checking in on a social experiment kind of thing. I’m nosy I guess, I like reading your personal stories here – I write a lot about marriage (and how women can make it better for their husbands), so obviously, this is interesting stuff for me! I pull my husband into it a bit lol, but he’s only expressed some interest in a few posts from Rollo and Heartiste. He doesn’t comment :(
January 20th, 2015 at 11:01 pm
@GWTDT,
The brochure makes this sound good, but…
http://nypost.com/2012/11/25/nobody-marries-their-best-sex-ever/
You can thank Open Hypergamy for that link.
January 20th, 2015 at 11:27 pm
According to a recent study by iVillage, less than half of wedded women married the person who was the best sex of their lives (52 percent say that was an ex.) In fact, 66 percent would rather read a book, watch a movie or take a nap than sleep with a spouse.
Scenario #1
1) Woman gains 20 pounds
2) She doesn’t feel desirable
3) Her sex drive decreases
4) Wife determines that husband is a poor love
5) “I’d rather read a book about teen vampires”
Scenario #2
1) Husband gains 20 pounds
2) Wife determines that husband is a poor lover
3) “I’d rather read a book about teen vampires”
Scenario #3
1) Both the husband and wife gain 20 pounds
2) Wife determines that husband is a poor lover
3) “We need to attend couples therapy to put the spark back in our relationship.”
January 20th, 2015 at 11:35 pm
@ girlwithadragonflytattoo
Ten years ago I would said what you did above if asked what I thought the benefits of marriage are supposed to be. Today I would say those that benefits are supposed to be, but that I have zero faith in the actual manifestation of those benefits.
I suppose it might be that the very elite few that eon describes are such beneficiaries. For rest of us it’s just meaningless sex if anything, and marriage as a metaphorical suicide. Other consolation prizes may exist.
For those of us over 40 I think we’re mostly fucked. Even if we can improve ourselves to the point of worthiness it’ll likely be too late. The very fortunate of the reformed may get what they wanted. The rest will constantly trying to redefine our wants to match what’s available, and what possible. The most cynical of us will become some form of overaged players, or MGTOWs.
January 20th, 2015 at 11:42 pm
Badpainter,
Just to make my position clear, I don’t think casual sex for women always results in pump&dump – sometimes it results in a loving relationship. Same for marriage. It’s an emotional decision and not a rational one nowadays. Thus, to sell a woman casual sex, one does not rely on using logic. And to sell marriage to a man, I bet the method is the same.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:11 am
re: “Benefits: amazing sex (I know… apparently many women drop the ball on this one, but if you’re up front about this as being a non-negotiable in your marriage, then its out there and should be a benefit), constant (through the years) & frequent passionate sex (again, apparently very hard to find… same above disclosure applies)”
Badpainter makes the point about the all-too typical bait and switch clearly enough, so I’ll make a few different points.
1) In a marriage “amazing sex” is identical to, defined by, “constant and frequent passionate sex.” To even be able to think otherwise, much less be able to say otherwise, says a lot about … a lot.
2) EVERY MAN was always “up front about this as being a non-negotiable”. Don’t you dare blame men for women’s dropping the ball. Her biology is not his fault. Her psychology is not his fault.
3) “apparently very hard to find” because women make it hard, deliberately. Almost every woman treats the man she claims to love very very very poorly sexually. In other words the exact way she knows will hurt him worst.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:12 am
I must be slow but all this… debate seems to miss the point.
ANY MAN can’t fix a woman’s innate Hypergamy. So… why bother?
I have resigned myself to the idea if Mrs Ang heads for the exits via mortality or divorce. I will find an 18 year old to replace her.
I have said as much to my wife. It’s obvious to me that if you want to minimize Alpha Widow probability, baggage probability, and princess probability. You shop at the young store not the Wall Mart.
To me everyone noting that all men prefer young women miss the point. They don’t just desire young ladies for the physical beauty. They desire young women due to the lack of crusted on BS that women accumulate during their 20s.
I will always give a gal points in attractiveness for genuine caring. (usually exhibited by how they act around young children).
But, I tend to take posts like these as actionable not philosophical.
I mean REALLY… not so very long ago it was expected that older gents would marry young girls. In our modern view of life and gender equality we laugh at those days… but after you take the Red Pill… can you still laugh at history???
January 21st, 2015 at 12:39 am
Besides marriage conveying to men the considerable benefits of
#1. Sanctioned sex.
to which I agree, although the research Rollo and I could point you to inarguably shows that when women do have unmarried sex then those women give better sex to those men when not married to those men. For one example, women give oral compared to receiveing oral far more frequently outside of ltr compared to inside. Women stink at being good, giving, and game. More concretely, this is really a benefit to *women*: married *women* get better sex, and more orgasms, etc.
we have several other putative benefits “for men” listed, which I number for our convenience
#2 a partner in doing life together
vague enough to be true enough. But the same could be said of any pardner who is living up to their pardnerness. More concretely, this is really primarily a benefit to *women*. Men liven up women; women are ball-and-chains.
#3 a companion in doing stuff
which isn’t at all different from #2. Hobbies get lumped in with children, which says a lot about … I don’t know what. And besides making babies, which again harkens back to #1, how is a guy’s male friends supposedly worser golf buddies than his wife? More concretely, this is really a benefit to *women*.
#4 not feeling lonely
These are feelz of #2-#3. Not different.
#5 having someone understand you intimately
Yes, the feeling of understanding is great. I dare say my pastor also knows me intimately, though. Also, many of my older male friends too, some of which I’ve known since childhood. This is benefit, but not really “for men” and certainly not exclusive to marriage; it’s a product of real companionship.
#6 someone to tell your deepest thoughts and fears to (without having them use them against you)
The part in parentheses is *why* women complain their husbands don’t talk to them. I dare say pastors and other counselors and therapists sworn to secrecy get far deeper thoughts and fears. A benefit, but not primarily “for men” and not primarily in marriage.
#7 someone to relax with
Not any different from previous companion benefits.
So in total, renumbering, as a list of benefits “for men”, we have
1) Sex, which is actually a benefit for women.
2) Companionship, which is actually a benefit for women.
3) Therapy or other nonsense, which is actually a negative for men.
Yay, marriage.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:40 am
@ Emma the emo
I agree. I think, however, a man sells marriage to himself based on his situation. I really can’t think of a more life altering decision. And while emotion plays a not insignificant role the logic of the whole thing has to be there. That logic of course is in some part based on what he sees as the benefits of marriage vs. the benefits of being single. That calculus has changed a lot in the last 20 years.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:49 am
re: casual sex study
“Women like casual sex just as much as men! Even more so! Women are better at being men than men are! Hah hah! Take that, you bad boys who used me and dumped me! I was using you! I would have dumped you, but I was trying to trick you into thinking it wasn’t as casual, see.”
January 21st, 2015 at 1:02 am
In my marriage… My ex wife always put put. She did whatever I wanted and I have the videos to prove it. This confuses me to this day. Everything I read, none of it truly explains my marriage. An HB10 who did whatever I wanted and let me video it. Yet she stated cheating the moment we got married. Something she forced on me.
Perhaps there just isn’t anyone to satisfy the hypergamy of a woman like that? Perhaps she is doomed to unhappiness? She is very unhappy despite men lining up to fuck her on tinder and her taking full advantage of it while her current BB assists her life style.
Marriage though? I gain nothing and lose so much. Never again. There is literally nothing that I gained. And I lost everything.
I honestly can’t believe that people still get married with the laws that are in place. It’s a joke. In RL I have now saved four men from that hell. Two of them have thanked me profusely.
So tell me please what I gain from marriage? My latent blue pill programming is desperate to know this.
Though I already know. I gain nothing but give so much away. Never again.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:03 am
Heartiste makes the usual claim that it is best to exhibit preselection by a higher SMV girl. In actuality, preselection works best when the girl is clearly sluttier. I’m talking her squirming like things-probably-oozing-out-of-her sluttier.
Maybe we’re saying the same thing, but I think not. Women *love* to compete with sluts for men’s attention; women do not want to compete with actually high value women, since they’d lose.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:08 am
re: preselection
It makes perfect sense from a sexual conflict perspective. Recall, the key concept is women doing their best to oppose men’s reproductive strategies. So here’s the explanation, in toto: If a man shows up with another woman he is clearly going to have sex with, she feels compelled to intervene.
It couldn’t be shorter or more direct.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:12 am
I have to say, the more I hear about Tinder, the less I want the hassle of all those women. There wouldn’t be any plausible deniability, and all those scorned women would firebomb my house.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:46 am
All women are sluts. You just have to give them the opportunity, the safety, the intimacy, and the trust. So they can be a slut for you. It’s inherent in their programming.
The married guys need to work their game hard to make their wives want to be their slut. Else they have lost. What a constant battle to wage. When they see you at your worst and rarely at your best because you save that for your job. No wonder the successful cultures put restraints on women. This is what we have though so go game your wife so she wants to be a slut for you. Not some man you don’t even know.
Sometimes I think I should stop turning these women into future alpha widows. If only we had male role models to teach us. You all have taught me much. Good thing since the only masculine role model I have had is Clint Eastwood in movies.
All women want the safety and security to be a slut. Since I know how to give that to them I suppose its my duty. Plus it’s fun and there really isn’t anything else left.
January 21st, 2015 at 3:01 am
Benefits: amazing sex
Hahahaha, hoooooo, that’s a good one! Women use that hook eeeeeverytime, then suddenly they’re toeing the feminist line with: “Look, just because I’m your wife doesn’t mean I have to give it to you any time you want!” Suddenly the guy that thought marriage meant not having to chase sex anymore finds that he’s put himself in the weakest bargaining position imaginable with a girl who no longer has to have sex to keep a man. Oh the cruel irony.
January 21st, 2015 at 5:29 am
Damntull
January 19th, 2015 at 6:20 pm
If you don’t do dread game divorce is a certainty. Of course the problem is beta women. They bitch moan and threaten. The alpha woman will rise to the occasion. “She is hot for you? I’m going to win you back and keep you.”
January 21st, 2015 at 5:40 am
jf12
January 21st, 2015 at 1:03 am
There are some women who feel they can out compete any other woman.
Here is how I dread game one. “I’m going to find a really good looking young girl with the big tits I like. You are going to help me with her. And then you are going to win me back by wanting me more than any other woman ever could.” She gets nervous with the first part and then chills and thrills with the ending.
Funny enough she likes big tits as much as I do. The other woman gives her a chance to play with them. At my suggestion of course so she can say, “You made me.” But she can’t disguise her willingness. Once commanded.
January 21st, 2015 at 6:05 am
anyone who thinks women with 3+ kids don’t divorce should get out more. Its happened at least twice in my circles. One man had 7 kids and his wife walked when the youngest was 9 taking most of his Colonel’s retirement check with her. The other man had 5 kids
January 21st, 2015 at 7:23 am
“#6 someone to tell your deepest thoughts and fears to (without having them use them against you).”
Right, this is a recipe for disaster. Never real your life story to a woman. We are alone. It’s like telling your problems/fears to your young child – it would only serve to upset them and lose confidence in you, and respect. A man must always be seen as her rock.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:07 am
@zdroidz
“Scenario #1
1) Woman gains 20 pounds
2) She doesn’t feel desirable
3) Her sex drive decreases
4) Wife determines that husband is a poor love
5) “I’d rather read a book about teen vampires”
Scenario #2
1) Husband gains 20 pounds
2) Wife determines that husband is a poor lover
3) “I’d rather read a book about teen vampires”
Scenario #3
1) Both the husband and wife gain 20 pounds
2) Wife determines that husband is a poor lover
3) “We need to attend couples therapy to put the spark back in our relationship.””
You lay it all on gaining weight. Plenty of women in marriage, and men, do not gain weight. The woman simply no longer needs the qualities of the man in her life as much as she did at one time, and realizes she can fleece him legally at will, so the sex stops. Sex may be natural at the beginning of a relationship/marriage, when making kids is (potentially) involved, but after a while it becomes nothing short of a mercenary consideration for the vast majority, if not all, women.
Any woman who says otherwise is lying.
January 21st, 2015 at 9:23 am
@The Burninator
“I always tell women: sex can take less time than unloading the dishwasher”
http://www.independent.ie/style/sex-relationships/what-happened-when-one-irish-woman-committed-to-a-month-of-sex-with-her-husband-30906973.html
January 21st, 2015 at 9:57 am
@ The Burninator
You lay it all on gaining weight. Plenty of women in marriage, and men, do not gain weight. The woman simply no longer needs the qualities of the man in her life as much as she did at one time, and realizes she can fleece him legally at will, so the sex stops.
No doubt there are women like that. One of my old work friends told me that his wife put out while they dated but wouldn’t have sex on their wedding night. Once that ring went on her finger their sex life stopped. After the wedding night fiasco it went downhill fast. She almost never put out and in a couple of years they got divorced. If I remember correctly she left him. Luckily they didn’t have kids.
But there is another large group of women that love sex.
I don’t know what the true percentages are but it wouldn’t surprise me if the female population broke down roughly into thirds.
Sex Interest Of Females In America
33% Love sex
33% Think sex is ok
33% Hate sex
1% High school teachers that molest their students
January 21st, 2015 at 10:06 am
^^^^^^
I should note that my old work friend was from my pizza delivery days in the 1990s. He was an assistant manager at Pizza Hut and in average physical shape. He was dead average in the brains department. I liked him and he was a good person but women probably looked at him as low on the totem pole. The lack of sex might have had to do with the fact he wasn’t alpha enough. I don’t know.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:10 am
The irony of the national post article is that it was produced at the University of Ottawa which is an epicentre of gynocentric insanity right now.
They are fully gripped by “rape culture” hysteria complete with an obsession over micro-aggressions. Their womyns studies faculty and students are notorious for using fascist tactics to shut down any potential MRA type discussions complete with pulling of fire alarms and simply shouting down speakers until there in no point in even speaking any longer.
More recently they are being sued by the majority of what was their hockey team. About a year ago two members of the hockey team are alleged to have sexually assaulted a woman while on a road trip. So the University president, one former federal Liberal justice minister, Alan Rock suspended the entire teams activities because of the allegation citing an abundance of caution. Meanwhile throwing the entire teams reputations under the bus. These are mostly young men there on a scholarship and the season was destroyed and their prospects of switching to another school also greatly diminished.
So I guess the womyn’s studies department will simply say the latest report just indicates that “women are allowed to do what they want with their bodies and this just shows that”
Open hypergamy indeed.
For the anti-Rad-Fem crowd, more fun reading..
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/01/19/robyn-urback-women-should-speak-first-in-classrooms-says-smu-prof-really-do-the-men-have-to-speak-at-all/
January 21st, 2015 at 10:16 am
@zdr01dz, re: “But there is another large group of women that love sex.
I don’t know what the true percentages are”
Desired monthly frequency of sex tells the entire story. Young women after the honeymoon period consider ten times a month to be “all the time”, while young men think it is “hardly ever”. The overlap between men and women is not large at all. Most lesbian couples experience bed death within the first year.
Most women don’t even bother masturbating to climax, much less do so frequently.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:23 am
In all honesty zdr01dz I doubt it breaks into thirds. Briffault’s (sp) law comes immediately to mind.
Do some enjoy it? Yes, no doubt. Do they even casually reach the tiers of desire that men have? A scant few perhaps, but only with medications applied, otherwise, hardly. Lesbian bed death, which jf12 mentioned, is very real and very well documented at this point.
Sex is a strategy to keep the man glued to her for provisioning once the kids pop out. The less she needs provisioning, the less impulse there is outside of a “natural” drive she’ll feel to scratch that itch, which for most women can be once or less times a month.
Never…ever…marry.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:24 am
Yuck I remember that study – especially the part where it describes what women would rather do than have sex with their husbands…. Hypergamy is really open – celebrated even.
And if the benefits seem too good to be true, its because they are – there are costs that go with them for men. Costs: being able to financially support a family (even if the wife works, you’re expected to work… fulltime, in a country that doesn’t give you the kind of vacation or time off that Europe does (even paternity leave), having to provide sufficient health care for your family (taking care of ALL costs of any sickness any kids get – illnesses, etc. Cancer alone can bankrupt a family, and at the rate cancer is growing from a research perspective, you can expect 1/2 the American population to have cancer sometime in their life by 2020 I believe), the IMMENSE STRESS you will have to endure in working under all these conditions – working because you absolutely have to – that kind of stress I think, wears on a man… then there’s the stress of kids (lol) they are wonderful but omg they completely make everything harder to some degree, as a father, you’ll probably think its overall worth it, but your freedom, carefree ambiance in your marriage will become horribly and severely limited, the stress of having to deal with your children (the more you have the more stress I would guess) when they argue with you – or try to pit your wife against you (in their ignorance/innocence), the fear you’ll have of losing everything if you fail in your career or have major career setbacks (which most probably have – my husband has but we got through it well, and if they don’t have a wife that’s “willing to suffer” then they are screwed), the stress of maintaining a good, balanced marriage – you don’t just learn everything all at once, everyone is human and your wife and you will have to learn how to communicate like spies on a mission to assassinate a world leader (there’s no room for miscommunication in a marriage – it will kill it if its not somehow worked out), having to make it through fights & getting your wife to fight fairly with you & you with her, again, very hard to learn at first, but the costs are far worse if you don’t learn these things early in marriage. I’m sure there’s more daunting costs but that’s all I can think of right now :).
January 21st, 2015 at 10:25 am
The approval of the so-called monogamy drugs, i.e. the low-dose oral testosterone that makes married women want more sex, will make it too obvious that for the entire previous century sex therapists deliberately blamed husbands, knowing it wasn’t the husbands’ fault.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:31 am
Sex Interest Of Females In America – addendum
33% Love sex
Attractive women disproportionately represented in this group
33% Think sex is ok
Average women disproportionately represented in this group
33% Hate sex
Unattractive women disproportionately represented in this group
1% High school teachers that molest their students
Every woman in this group suffers from brain damage
January 21st, 2015 at 10:36 am
It’s been at least four full decades since I first heard the very old joke about the real reason why brides smile when they walk down the aisle. And it was very old even then. And I was (am?) the kind of guy that other guys don’t tell such jokes to.
I vaguely recall there may have been some typical negative wife stuff going on. For one thing she had started birth control pills over my objections, and I’m certain the sex was already far too frequent since it was a couple years past the honeymoon period. Anyway literally by the water cooler on a Monday I was describing a wedding I had gone to that weekend and some other young married guys were joshing each other, about their own extremely lousy post-honeymoon wives, and one of them said something like “That reminds me about that old joke about why the bride was smiling when she walked down the aisle.”
And all the other guys laughed, but looked at me guiltily. And I said, typically for me, “I hope that’s not a joke I shouldn’t hear.” And the joke-teller said “Nah, don’t worry there’s no sex in it.” And all the other guys laughed again.
More than forty years ago.
January 21st, 2015 at 10:37 am
far too infrequent
January 21st, 2015 at 10:45 am
@zdr01dz, re: “Attractive women disproportionately represented in this group”
That’s the reason why a woman is said to go ugly when she turns bitchy. The basic point of a woman looking attractive is for her to look like she would be willing to have sex.
And for women readers, no this is NOT projection by men. What a man means by a woman being sexy to him is that she looks/behaves like she would enjoy sex with him. In total contrast, women project, so that what a woman means by a man being sexy to her is that he looks/behaves like she would enjoy sex with him.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:00 am
Around fifty years ago, at the start of the sexual revolution, the only openly sexually-displaying men were homosexuals. Until the MID 1970s even disco dudes didn’t unbutton their shirts.
But women have been flaunting what little sexuality they have, from time immemorial.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:09 am
re: women turning
“women’s sexual desire was significantly and negatively predicted by relationship duration after controlling for age, relationship satisfaction, and sexual satisfaction. Men’s sexual desire, however, was not significantly affected by the duration of their romantic relationships.”
“relationship quality was not associated with sexual desire for women”
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2011.569637#tabModule
Murray, S., and Milhausen, R. Sexual Desire and Relationship Duration in Young Men and Women. Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy, Volume 38, Issue 1, 2012.
Don’t blame the men in any way. Focus on the women, solely the women, to solve this problem if one wants to actually solve this problem.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:17 am
The buzzphrase is “sexual desire discrepancy”. The title of this article tells it all.
Herbenick D, Mullinax M, Mark K. Sexual Desire Discrepancy as a Feature, Not a Bug, of Long-Term Relationships: Women’s Self-Reported Strategies for Modulating Sexual Desire. The Journal of Sexual Medicine, Volume 11, Issue 9, pages 2196–2206, September 2014.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12625/full
I’m disappointed in Herbenick circling the wagons around women.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:20 am
Here’s a glimpse of our future. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/11357201/Nearly-50-per-cent-of-Japanese-adults-not-having-sex.html
Part of this is due to very specific aspects of Japanese history, economics and culture. Remember, there is no economic future for most young Japanese men – their economy is now in a death spiral. Also, Japanese cultural traditions were always much stronger than those in the U.S. in many ways so when they are consciously destroyed, the populace is even more adrift.
I also think that many Japanese men have adopted an effeminate pose, or rather a non-masculine appearance. Whether it’s no muscles, rail thinness or effete mannerisms, it’s quite pronounced. It seems the Alpha male is all but dead in Japan – and without Alpha males, the cock carousel grinds to a halt. Without jobs and money, the Beat provisioning model falls apart.
This is our future. Of course, the contrarian response for any actually masculine man who has game and some alphaness would be to go to Japan and bang a bunch of young Japanese girls. Didn’t PUA do a vid showing how receptive young Japanese women were to physically aggressive groping etc? Perhaps that’s just Alpha thirst in an Alpha desert?
January 21st, 2015 at 11:22 am
The crowbar upgrade basically is the Gravity Gun. What is the hammer upgrade? Maybe a sort of RPG?
January 21st, 2015 at 11:31 am
@Glenn re: cause vs effect. More than twice as many young Japanese women as men report having little to no desire for sex.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:35 am
@zdroidz
You posted the vid about Tina Fey….did you know she has some deep , mysterious past experience with an obvious alpha which has scarred her for life? Her current husband is only about 5’5″ and she admits being terrified of any average to tall man? Not a good example of “wired for hypergamy” since her wiring was fried early on……
January 21st, 2015 at 11:43 am
@ eon
trollol
January 21st, 2015 at 11:45 am
The current state-of-the-art mantra regarding sexual desire discrepancy is “Man up and decrease your sexpectations!”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kristen-mark/adjust-these-three-sexpec_1_b_6255182.html
“The disappearance of that passionate sex doesn’t have to be a bad thing.” said no man ever.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:45 am
@ Nathan
as the National Post article confirms looks are everything. alpha fucks equals looks.
and looks equals alpha fucks.
it’s simple.
All based on self-reporting. Looks are back-hamstered pro or con after the amygdala has made its decision.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:47 am
@ droid
Here is a list of 45 things you do that I love and appreciate.
I hear this a lot from broads. So, does she make you sammiches? That will tell if she’s a good woman.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:50 am
FYI the entire purpose of the “You go girl!” and “Women like sex just as much as men if not more!” narrative is to ensure that women’s desire for LESS sex is considered normative.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:54 am
@theasgamer, re: “I hear this a lot from broads.”
Me too. I hear it from my own, naturally, but most women all claim to know they ought to appreciate what their husbands do, so plenty of women claim that they do appreciate it. But I’m agreeing with you that a woman merely expressing appreciation for all that her man does is on the same side of the spectrum as a woman expressing disappointment in all that her man does!
She should instead be doing for him, and HE should be judging HER on her performance.
January 21st, 2015 at 11:57 am
@ Emma
And to sell marriage to a man, I bet the method is the same.
Your reasoning error is of distribution. Betas are sold the hypothetical vaj; some alphas want sweetness, warmth, and loyalty since they already have as much vaj as they want. Those alphas make a rational decision. Some require pr0nst@r sex, but that is irrational since it contradicts the loyalty requirement.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:05 pm
@Glenn
Didn’t PUA do a vid showing how receptive young Japanese women were to physically aggressive groping etc? Perhaps that’s just Alpha thirst in an Alpha desert?
Whatever it is, sounds like it’s easy pickings for a guy with any game. I dig asian chicks…
January 21st, 2015 at 12:09 pm
@StringofCoins (and @GWTDT)
….., I agree with the first part:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/23/wait-for-it/
…but not this.
What do you suppose prompts the most intense, most memorable sexual experience:
A preplanned “date night” where you meticulously cover every detail to hit every contrived romantic button – kids at her mother’s for the night, roses, candlelight steakhouse dinner, hotel room, and anything else Dr. Phil assures us will “rekindle the passion” because you “have to make an effort” comfortable and trusting to want to fuck you.
OR
You’re on the verge of a break up. You spend three nights on your buddy’s couch and are already making phone calls to the divorce attorney. You go home to confront her with every raging intention of making it final, when she concedes to your Frame, says she’s missed you, says she was wrong, and basically is forced to confront the idea of never having you in her life again, and you have make-up sex like wild animals in ways she’s never had the incentive to fuck you before.
Which of these is more likely to evoke genuine desire and passion from her? Which of these is most likely to end in an unplanned pregnancy?
This rule should be even more emphasized for married men. Despite all women’s bleating to the contrary, comfort is NEVER a precursor to good sex. As ugly as it is, the truth is that anxiety, urgency and sexual tension will always prompt women’s genuine sexual desire response. Comfort, trust and familiarity are anti-seductive.
Comfort and trust is what women tell Betas they need to feel in order to fuck them, while they’re fantasizing about a hot Alpha in the Estrus phase of their menstrual cycle.
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/Gonzaga_Haselton_et_al_2008_EHB.pdf
January 21st, 2015 at 12:33 pm
Rollo is more true when more emphatic. “As ugly as it is, the truth is that anxiety, urgency and sexual tension will always prompt women’s genuine sexual desire response. Comfort, trust and familiarity are anti-seductive.”
Yes, but “The disappearance of that passionate sex doesn’t have to be a bad thing.” say all women. In accord with sexual conflict, the peculiarly feminine sexual behavior is to make sex a higher hurdle for the man by (usually) insisting on comfort too.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:34 pm
Can you imagine a world in which any large fraction (double digits; 11% say; I LOL at zdr01ds imaginative 33%) of women actively seek to make sex easier for men?
January 21st, 2015 at 12:36 pm
re: “go back to square one and start fresh”
I can’t disagree. I really wish there were some other way, but I fail to see any.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:43 pm
@ theasdgamer
So, does she make you sammiches? That will tell if she’s a good woman.
Are you kidding me? She does all the cooking, cleaning, holiday planning, birthdays, etc. etc. All the old school girl stuff. And yes, she’s American.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:50 pm
From the the NYP article:
This is what women tell Beta husbands in order to make their necessity a virtue.
January 21st, 2015 at 12:54 pm
@ cholo
You posted the vid about Tina Fey….did you know she has some deep , mysterious past experience with an obvious alpha which has scarred her for life? Her current husband is only about 5’5″ and she admits being terrified of any average to tall man? Not a good example of “wired for hypergamy” since her wiring was fried early on……
That’s possible but it’s speculation.
All that matter is…
A) Tina Fey is wired for hypergamy like every other woman
B) She is also wired up for other behaviors that can either interfere with or enhance her natural hypergamy.
No person’s behavior is automatically predictable because they are hard-wired for a specific trait. The brain is full of cross-talk.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:01 pm
re: “make their necessity a virtue”
It is apparently true that women orgasm a LOT more with betas, with whom the women can have greater comfort, whom the woman can trust to be familiar with her needs, whom the women expect to CARE about her needs, and whom the women don’t worry about pleasing …
Hence the woman’s orgasming is negatively correlated with her perception of passion and hotness. She rewards the reproductive behaviors in men that go against his ability to reproduce with other women.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:04 pm
@ jf12
Most lesbian couples experience bed death within the first year.
Forget Brazzers. Have you seen what actual lesbians look like? It’s amazing they can keep it going for a year. [Shudder]
January 21st, 2015 at 1:06 pm
Great stuff.
…a couple caveat I would note from my experience through divorce and ongoing, red-pill ascension.
#1 – Being alpha in a marriage does *not* protect you against being turned on by a wife. When her desire to get what she wants – to provision – runs up against your assertive setting of limits and financial priorities, she will rebel. She doesn’t want that type of alpha.
I was a typical blue-pill conditioned man through 17 years of marriage and 3 kids. However, as I aged, I became stronger and more assertive – more manly and alpha-like. ‘No, you can’t have that BMW. The Lexus is fine.’
My ex, like most woman, didn’t want to hear ‘no’ from her husband. She called it ‘bullying’. She wants to hear yes from an alpha-oriented man. But an alpha-oriented man has to say ‘no’ to a woman when she’s being a child.
#2 – Marriage gets familiar, sometimes boring, over the year, despite our best efforts. It’s unavoidable. Men handle this stage better than women. They want all the excitement they see in the various media. Vampire movie/novels. Tabloid excitement. Men know instinctually it’s artificial and, in any case, juvenile. They don’t!
So, even as a Christian, I’ve come to conclude that western marriage as defined by our social and legal environment, is mostly a lose-lose proposition to men.
If you’re young and want children, you may have to roll the dice. But as a divorced guy, I’m seeing no benefits and only risk and likely relational decay associated with marriage.
It’s *way* easier to generate relational excitement and the actual type of fun intimacy men want as a boyfriend.
We have power when we’re single. We know it. Women know it. And things just work better when men have power in relationships with women.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:10 pm
@jf12 Wow!!! So cynical – LOL!!! :P You sound way more cynical than normal about the benefits!! Oh my goodness!
You said:
“1) In a marriage “amazing sex” is identical to, defined by, “constant and frequent passionate sex.” To even be able to think otherwise, much less be able to say otherwise, says a lot about … a lot.
2) EVERY MAN was always “up front about this as being a non-negotiable”. Don’t you dare blame men for women’s dropping the ball. Her biology is not his fault. Her psychology is not his fault.
3) “apparently very hard to find” because women make it hard, deliberately. Almost every woman treats the man she claims to love very very very poorly sexually. In other words the exact way she knows will hurt him worst.”
1) My bad… amazing sex is different to me, because its like pornstar sex – ridiculously visceral sex… that’s not the same to me as just “passionate sex” which could be almost the same but is usually more romantic. A good marriage has both, and sex is frequent like as in 3-5 times a week or almost daily.
2) I’m sorry, I think you’re wrong… most men I would believe are just not up front about their own needs – they’re too busy pedestalizing her, worshiping her through the dating period, and assuming she’ll meet their needs once married (beta men, which is probably most men out there) – many men aren’t even AWARE that they’ll have these needs in marriage.
I think you’re underestimating the naivety of most men when they get married – hence why Rollo has this blog in the first place.
3) You’re right. :( I try to write articles to make women aware of the position they’re going to find themselves in (being cheated on or eventually divorced).
January 21st, 2015 at 1:10 pm
“Betas are sold the hypothetical vaj; some alphas want sweetness, warmth, and loyalty since they already have as much vaj as they want. Those alphas make a rational decision.”
This jives with what I see. Which is really just one of the many manifestations of “wait for it”. Hypothetical vaj is the shoehorn for slipping a beta into the pre-defined “relationship” of her choosing. Because she is not sufficiently being lubed-up by his alpha traits she instead lubes-up the beta up with the potential.
“Some require pr0nst@r sex, but that is irrational since it contradicts the loyalty requirement.”
This is one of the few struggles the natural alpha friends of mine seem to encounter as they drift in and out of relationships. Their sexual body-of-work includes so many encounters that are unconstrained by the confines of a relationship that indeed once the context of comfort and care and respect close in around them, their ability to replicate the dopamine rush of nailing randos is hamstrung.
They try. Boy do they try. Which leads to why the women who “date” these guys are also likely to do all kinds of things in the sack that the beta bux guy will be left negotiating for down the road (saving the best).
The sexual burden of performance is on her just as it is on the beta after he’s been properly conditioned to press the bar and is allowed access to the vaj. Granted, for the beta there is a high probability that this is just the beginning of his Sisyphean existence.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:18 pm
Let’s go along with the thesis that women are 100% hard-wired for hypergamy, and there are no environmental influences that can change this.
This would absolve all women of any and all responsibility for any of their sexual behaviors, since the argument would be that they are not free agents. Their sexual preferences are completely pre-determined and their environment/upbringing, etc., has absolutely no bearing on this at all. They are like robots operating from a program that is set in stone, no matter what time period they were born in or what culture they were raised in.
In that line of thinking, commitment, by default, is negotiated desire. You can’t have your cake and eat it too, just like women will never find AF/BB in the same man. It is impossible, since AF/BB are two opposite ends of the spectrum: genuine desire and negotiated desire.
BB is negotiated desire by default. There is no way to provision for a woman without compromising genuine desire. Having to work harder in an LTR or marriage to maintain genuine desire, which everyone here has attested to, is simply evidence of this fact: commitment has been, and always will be, a form of negotiated desire that compromises the genuine desire of the woman for the man. This has been, and always will be, a consequence of commitment.
His only option is to accept the thankless burden that comes with commitment, if he’s decided that whatever he’s getting out of it (e.g. a family) is worth it. Commitment has been and always will be a compromise of men’s sexual strategy via the fact that it is negotiated desire, and compromises women’s genuine desire for a man.
Even if the Betas “Alpha’d up” and refused to marry carousel riders, and even if that deterred women from slutting it up early in life — it would not change their genuine desire.
We can whine and moan all we want about women’s behavior, but ultimately, if we agree with this hypothesis, we can’t blame them for even the worst of their behaviors any more than we can blame an alligator for biting someone.
They are not free agents and are without free choice. Hypergamy is their operating system and there is absolutely nothing we can do as a society or an individual to change or modify that. And if this hard-wiring of hypergamy is true, then it’s ALWAYS been true, and men have not been any better or worse off at any point in history with women than they have been now.
i.e. Same shit, different day.
Genuine desire is genuine desire. For an Alpha. Whether a woman has choice or not, depending on the laws and social structure in her society, is completely irrelevant as far as her genuine desire for an Alpha goes.
What are our options?
Genuine desire, and negotiated desire. Genuine desire will never last any significant length of time. Enjoy it while it lasts because it won’t be for long. And negotiated desire — e.g. sex in any form of committed relationship — will never generate the visceral, urgent, genuine sexual desire reserved for a pure Alpha in the context of a one night stand.
Even with tight Game it’s a compromise, and the rewards for working so hard to maintain genuine desire as much as possible will never rival the rewards of generating genuine desire with no strings attached, e.g. in the context of a one time lay. The best men can get is genuine desire from a woman that they have never committed to, or given any indication that they were going to.
I have experienced genuine, visceral desire from a few women. Were they 10’s? No. But I know what it’s like to have a woman obsessed with wanting to fuck your brains out.
And AWALT. Seen one of them, seen them all. Genuine desire from a more attractive woman whose body you enjoy more is of course more enjoyable. But the behavior and genuine desire is the same. The genuine desire thing, absolutely free from commitment, is like a grain of sand on the beach.
It’s nice, but after experiencing it, it kind of takes the mystery out of it all. No more dragon to chase. The dragon of course being the myth that all that genuine desire can last indefinitely in the context of a committed relationship. Just doesn’t work that way. If you’re going to commit to a relationship you have to have higher goals in mind —
— because the second you commit, ESPECIALLY get married, you have basically just cucked yourself. By committing to a woman, you just made room in her programming code for an Alpha. And if a one time affair with that guy turns into an LTR with him, he’ll be cucking himself the same way you did, and the cycle continues.
As I understand it, and am applying to my own thought process as “preventative medicine” (being 25 years old I should right into the demographic Rollo’s aiming at with his “Preventative Medicine” series — guys that haven’t fallen into the trap yet)….
A man should ONLY ever commit if he’s aware of the consequences and the compromises he has to make, and is willing to accept those terms, and is confident in his reason for choosing to do so.
If he is not aware that a committed relationship is a compromise of his innate sexual imperative, he is not grounded in reality, and can’t make a truly rational decision that he won’t regret later.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:20 pm
@rpa
We have power when we’re single. We know it. Women know it. And things just work better when men have power in relationships with women
Yeah, I agree with this. I know Rollo has written about how cohabitation without marriage is bad, but I feel like if done with careful arrangement so as not to find yourself trapped by common-law or contractual obligation you can maintain your power. If at any moment you can remove her from your life without any legal or financial ramifications (and you find subtle ways to keep her aware of it), it acts as a constant passive dread to keep you in power.
Granted most guys won’t have the stones or planning to set it up right, but I think done right it could work out better due to not giving up power.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:24 pm
re: “many men aren’t even AWARE that they’ll have these needs”
Oh come one! “There was this one guy I heard about once. I think he may have lived in Japan and got his testicles nuked or something.” EVERY MAN has been well aware of his needs since the first day of puberty, and has striven (strived? stroveded?) mightily to control his needs since about, er, the first week of puberty.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:24 pm
Oh come on …
January 21st, 2015 at 1:34 pm
re: cohabitation
Cohabitors suffer the exact same post-honeymoon deblissification as married folks suffer. It seems to be the woman’s constant contact with the man that dooms it, e.g. incest avoidance etc.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:36 pm
Regarding the comment about sex by girlwithadragonflytattoo
amazing sex is different to me, because its like pornstar sex – ridiculously visceral sex… that’s not the same to me as just “passionate sex” which could be almost the same but is usually more romantic. A good marriage has both, and sex is frequent like as in 3-5 times a week or almost daily.
I know this is the internet but I’ll take her at her word. There are a lot of women that enjoy a good pounding.
Remember your work-buddy who told you at lunch that his wife squirts and has 8 orgasms per session? You’re right, he’s lying. But plenty of regular women do enjoy sex and the distribution isn’t 1% pornstar sex freaks and 99% frigid bitches.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:36 pm
Note that “usually more romantic” gets an automatic demotion from a woman, one she feels is so obvious it doesn’t even need explaining.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:40 pm
@zdr01dz, re: “her word.”
Her word is that amazing sex is different from
1)constant
2)frequent
3)passionate
Hence it must be
1)inconstant
2)infrequent
and last but not least
3)dispassionate
which she further defines as unromantic and all about the man forcing his needs on her.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:51 pm
@ jf12
which she further defines as unromantic and all about the man forcing his needs on her.
Yep, that’s why it is called a good pounding. Girls want to be taken. That’s what women love to read about. It’s an element in every romance novel.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:55 pm
“And then the equal, beta provider approached me and asked me if I would be willing to have sex on my terms after I felt comfortable.”
That story line turns on exactly zero women.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:55 pm
@sun
I’ve been thinking about cohabitation myself (having a girlfriend of a year+). I think it definitely blocks some of the worst types of emasculation marriage inflicts on men today. But it prevents us from creating space in the relationship.
Creating space and separation is something that seems so important in managing relationships with women. It’s how you assert your power and protect your own identity.
In my heart of hearts, I know I’m happiest having my own home and my own personal space, but still having a stable relationship with a woman.
They, of course, hate this because they can’t provision you.
Sharing living costs with cohabitation is a big plus. But I’m not sure it’s good enough to give up the freedom.
I’d be curious to know of mens’ experience with cohabitation.
January 21st, 2015 at 1:59 pm
re: “Girls want to be taken”
Yes, but not constantly, and not frequently. The conundrum for a man is that he wants it constantly (or at least frequently). It is, her word, “ridiculous”, to expect a man to conform to a woman’s schedule and to only pound her when she wants it,
January 21st, 2015 at 2:02 pm
Where does an apparently aware woman get off speculating that most men don’t KNOW their own needs? How did such a woman NOT get the idea that men are forced to mightly suppress their needs?
January 21st, 2015 at 2:10 pm
@ jf12
Yes, but not constantly, and not frequently.
It’s my experience that when a woman is really turned on she wants it just as much as I do. But the frequency of having strong desire is about 50% less. Your mileage may vary.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:13 pm
@jf12
Cohabitors suffer the exact same post-honeymoon deblissification as married folks suffer.
I have no doubt you’re right. That’s half the reason I consider the arrangement valid. When that happens, it’s time to move on. If you ever find a unicorn where it doesn’t and your game is solid, maybe consider escalation to full on marriage. But it seems like a better solution than taking the full plunge, then saying the exact title of this article followed by “… then took half my shit and the kids” when it turns out you were wrong about her.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:15 pm
jf12 – “How did such a woman NOT get the idea that men are forced to mightly suppress their needs?”
The same place men got the “be nice”, “just be yourself” message; other women.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:25 pm
re: “when a woman is really turned on”
Nobody argues otherwise. The points of interesting debate are
1) How she gets that way with the least effort on his part
2) How should he best try to make her that way more frequently
3) What’s in it for him? Why should he exert himself at all for *her* reproductive strategies, instead of relentlessly promoting his own needs?
January 21st, 2015 at 2:28 pm
I can hardly wait for the Hamsterpocalypse when the 50 Shades of Grey movie premiers next month.
You want to see Open Hypergamy in its rawest self-conflicting dichotomy? You want to see women tear themselves apart from the inside out trying to both deny and affirm the truths of the story’s popularity? Just wait until February 14th.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:28 pm
@Sun Wukong, re: “When that happens, it’s time to move on. If you ever find a unicorn where it doesn’t”
This cohabiting things is exactly women’s reproductive strategy: serial monogamy for a couple of years or so for each ltr. And she has a live-in lightbulb changer too. Win-win for women. Not clear what is in it for men.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:30 pm
Cohabitors suffer the exact same post-honeymoon deblissification as married folks suffer.
My best friend moved in with his girlfriend back in our college days. They fought constantly. A couple of years later they got married. After marriage they continued their endless bickering. Fast forward to last month I was over at their house. My buddy was drinking a beer while we played video games in his office. His wife walked in the room and started an innocuous conversation. Out of nowhere he turned on her and let her have it. The screamfest began and I could tell she was scared. Then it stopped and she walked away. I wanted out of there so bad.
The problem is how people relate, not so much marriage or cohabitation. Their relationship always sucked.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:31 pm
Man’s optimal reproductive strategy for his needs, in a nutshell.
Step 1. Pound your woman good. Skittles, maybe, if she’s nice.
Step 2. Pound another woman good. Not even skittles.
Step 3. Pound another woman good. She brings the skittles.
See the pattern?
January 21st, 2015 at 2:36 pm
Woman’s optimal reproductive strategy, thumbnail sketch.
Step 1. She doesn’t let any of those nasty boys do anything.
Step 2. Well one of them was special and he could do anything, until she didn’t want to any more with him.
Step 3. Another one was more special.
Rinse, repeat.
January 21st, 2015 at 2:39 pm
@ droid
Are you kidding me? She does all the cooking, cleaning, holiday planning, birthdays, etc. etc. All the old school girl stuff. And yes, she’s American.
LOL, all that 5h1t is for her. She has to feed the plowhorse and clean up his stall; she needs to eat and live there, too. Do you seriously care about holidays or birthdays?