One of the first observations formal PUAs had when they were testing and refining their methods was that of the now ubiquitous shit tests women would present them with. It’s important to put this testing dynamic into context because, as most any guy who’s ever made an approach will tell you (not just PUAs) there comes a stage in that approach when a girl will set up a challenge for a guy. However, as any married man will tell you, that’s not where the shit tests end.
Over the holidays I was hanging out with my brother and watching my niece and nephew interact. My nephew is 16 and his sister is a very mature 12, but to see them interact, it’s one shit test after another. There’s the fluid teasing and taunting that comes from siblings that genuinely like each other (well, mostly), but as I watch these two interact I thought back to how my brother and I used to give each other shit, smack each other around and basically roughhouse like boys used to be able to do before a feminine-primary society decided they needed to be medically sedated for their ‘condition’.
I’ve explored this in Amused Mastery, but there’s a natural flow that’s learned between an older brother and a younger sister (or sometimes a capricious younger brother to an older sister) that translates to an intersexual relating with men and women later in adulthood. My brother is very conventionally masculine, a somewhat natural Alpha in his mindset, and his positive masculine frame carries over into his role as a father. This sets the environment in which his son and daughter are learning intertersexual interactions with one another. Both are very headstrong, but also respectful in a way that only a positively male dominant father can inspire.
I bring this up because I feel this learning illustrates both the problem most men later have with shit tests as well as the key to capitalizing on them.
No Passing
You’ll notice I didn’t say ‘pass’ the shit test. I think it’s a misnomer to view shit tests as a pass or fail proposition. Most men like that easy binary win-lose proposition, but the problem I have with that is that ‘passing’ a shit test implies finality. You will always be shit tested by a woman, so you never really pass that test, however you can and should turn those tests to your advantage.
Many a well meaning Red Pill woman (and a few Purple Pill ‘life coaches’) who don’t like offending the delicate sensibilities of today’s virtuous women like to call these tests ‘fitness’ tests. The renaming sprays a bit of perfume on an otherwise unflattering aspect of women’s Hypergamous psyches, but under that scent is the same truth,…
Women’s shit testing is a psychologically evolved, hard-wired survival mechanism. Women will shit test men as autonomously and subconsciously as a men will stare at a woman’s big boobs. They cannot help it, and often enough, just like men staring at a nice rack or a great ass, even when they’re made aware of doing it they’ll still do it. Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.
I think the early PUAs were correct in calling these test ‘shit tests’ because the nature of those tests they met in their field approaches were very much like the ‘shit’ they’d given and been given by their male peers throughout much of their lives. Part of the male experience is giving your friends ‘shit’, ribbing them, messing with them and otherwise talking ‘shit’ with them. If you’re in a fantasy football league you probably get that “smack talking” has been raised to an art form.
In this context it’s not so much a fitness test as it is a form of male-specific camaraderie – if it’s a test of anything it’s a test for the social intelligence that a guy gets that his friend is giving him ‘shit’ and can laugh about it and give as good as he got. This is part of men’s preferred overt form of communication which baffles women unfamiliar with it; if I’m playfully insulting you, if I’m messing with you, it means I consider you a friend and I expect that you’ll ‘just get it’ that you know this when I do.
Sadly this is often the first offense women take when they insert themselves into Male Spaces. They take the ‘shit talk’ personally, or at the very least have to make an effort (they believe they shouldn’t have to) to communicate in the open, often vulgar, but no less meaningful ways men do. Unless they were raised in the increasingly rare household of a strong masculine influence (fathers or brothers) it’s likely these women won’t “just get it” and bend their efforts to change that communication to something she’s more comfortable with, and something her feminine-primary expectations convince her is correct.
Getting the Test
Even if you had the benefit of having your bratty sister punch you in the arm after teasing her you may not realize this is a form of shit testing you. One of the most important aspects of dealing with a shit test is understanding the basic fundament of Just Getting It:
She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.
Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.
A woman wants to know a guy Just Gets It, but she still needs a method to determine that he does – ergo she shit tests. For women, this method must be in as covert a form as possible to protect the integrity of not exposing her own sexual strategy to herself.
When openly analyzed this seems like madness to men’s striving for a rational solution to a problem, but her method comes from a subconscious want of not having to convince her hindbrain that he does in fact get it – and gets it so well that he neither acknowledges it overtly nor asks for her assistance in figuring her shit test out.
Observing and / or explicating a process will change that process, and a woman’s Hypergamous hindbrain knows this.
Essentially a shit test is used by women to determine one, or a combination of these factors:
a.) Confidence – first and foremost
b.) Options – is this guy really into me because I’m ‘special’ or am I his only option?
c.) Security – is this guy capable of providing me with long term security?
I would also add that these requisites imply a testing for masculine dominance as well as his sexual market value. Women want a man that other women want to fuck, and other men want to be. The conflict inherent in women’s shit testing is that she must simultaneously determine a man has other sexual options than her while also attempting to limit those option and making herself his primary focus.
There’s always been some debate as to whether women are unaware of their subconscious shit testing or if those tests come from a fully aware and deliberate intent. I understand the rational want of men to hold women’s feet to the fire and accept a personal responsibility for their action – shit tests naturally seem like a huge waste of time, not to mention duplicitous and false to men who value straight-talk solutions – but I’m going to argue that these tests are both intentional and subconscious depending on the context in which she delivers a shit test.
However, whether intended or not, it’s more important for guys to get that a woman’s testing is rooted in her inherent Hypergamous uncertainty. And that uncertainty extends to both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of her Hypergamy. Women’s doubt of a man’s Hypergamous suitability is a constant, though subconscious effect for her.
Active Testing
When a woman actively, consciously, shit tests you, understand that it is always intentional. This type of shit test is the most common one PUAs encounter in the clubs or whatever their preferred venue may be. With the exception of maybe Day Game, women in these arenas are expecting men to sarge them, and therefore the propensity to deliver a prepared shit test is a conscious decision on her part. For the most part these tests amount to a fun game for her that serve the purpose of determining a guy’s SMV and his Hypergamy optimization potential.
An active test is entertainment to her in the same way it is for a bratty sister and her older brother. There’s usually a lot of witty (hopefully on your part) push-pull to this shit test exchange, but the latent purpose is her subconscious probing you for the possibility that you might ‘get it’ – that you might be able to play the game rather than having to explain it to her or having it explained to you.
As I’ve stated before, a woman who is into you wont confuse you, but a lot of men (particularly overly conditioned Betas) come to believe that any impropriety on his part might be taken as an offensive so they never boldly push back on these test as they should. They fall back on the “Yes M’Lady” white knight script they believe will set them apart from “other guys”, but the guys who ‘get it’ aren’t confused by shit tests. A big brother hits his bratty sister back when they’re play fighting; not so much as to harm her, but just enough to show her who’s stronger, who’s in control of his situation and isn’t afraid to push her back.
If a woman is not testing you in an environment where she could reasonably be expected to actively be doing so, she doesn’t have the interest in you to do so. A lot of men mistake a woman’s “Bitch Shield” as a cue of disinterest or disgust, when in fact these are often calculated shit tests. There are many ways to push past a Bitch Shield for a guy with the brass (and interest) to do so, but it’s a woman’s indifference, not her poised contempt, that cues disinterest.
Active tests are what single men are most likely to encounter in women, and it’s important for these men to understand that this type of test isn’t something you pass, but rather something you capitalize on. For a guy with even a basic grasp of Game these test should be considered nothing but softballs for him to hit out of the park.
Things to remember are Amused Mastery, Command Presence, Agree & Amplify and a basic Cocky & Funny ambience while employing them. I should also add that women deliberately putting themselves into social environments (like a club) who are delivering active shit test are likely at the ovulation point of their Estrus phase – adjust your Game (and birth control methods) accordingly.
If you recognize that you’re being actively shit tested always remember, play with her, and play with her. Shit tests of this nature are opportunities to build attraction as well as arousal, and women want you to get that they are opportunities.
Passive Testing
While active testing is done in awareness with intent by a woman (with only a passing element of her subconsciously doing so), a passive shit test is a reflexive, subconscious test rooted in a woman’s Hypergamous insecurities. In an active test, the latent purpose is one of playfully determining Hypergamous optimization of a new prospective mate. A passive test is rooted in the Hypergamous doubt that a woman’s choice to settle with that man was in fact the best optimization her SMV could afford her.
Passive testing always asks the question that her nagging, hindbrain Hypergamy can’t give a voice to, “Did I make the right choice? Is this guy really the Alpha I thought he was or could be?’
Passive testing is constantly exacerbated or defined by her previous sexual experiences (or lack thereof) or the fantasies of what could be if her circumstances were to change. For women, this is the mental space where the Alpha Widow dynamic is harbored. This is a where the subconscious testing of the man whom she consolidated monogamy with meets her unconscious comparing of him with her past, idealized experiences – or the experiences she believes could be possible if she could determine his suitability for her.
For the most part these tests are ones of measuring his performance and provisioning capacity against his Alpha tingles generating capacity. Passive tests are insidious in that they need a satisfaction of so many Hypergamous elements: Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks, the outperforming of past or fantasized sexual competitors, pushback masculine dominance, status, and many other prerequisites of long term Hypergamous optimization.
As you’ll probably guess the passive test is usually reserved for marriages and LTRs (live in arrangements being common). Any woman not familiar enough with you wont give you a passive test, however you might get one from your mother or a close female relative who needs some reassurance from you (or wants to put you in your place as a Beta). Passive tests seem to be the most hurtful, but it’s important to predict when they’ll come, what’s triggered them and the root insecurity behind them that women either aren’t consciously aware of or can’t openly reveal because, once again, it ruins the game and her determining if you ‘just get it’ without being told.
As with active tests demonstration, not explication, is the key to resolving and capitalizing on them. These are the types of tests that aggravate most men because they generally feel they’re locked into solving them. Thus, they make grandly overt affairs of bringing a woman’s ‘bull shit’ to light in an effort to quell her insecurities, but also to feel like they’re reasonably holding her personally accountable for her “stupid shit testing”.
And as with most similar efforts, appealing to a woman’s reason never ‘solves’ her problem. Hypergamy doesn’t reason, Hypergamy only feels. Demonstrating you get what she’s doing will help you capitalize on her insecurities far more than explicating that you know what she’s doing by shit testing you.
You’ll probably have guessed that passive tests are most commonly generated while a woman is in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle, but it when that insecurity relates to her partner’s Alpha suitability there is some crossover into her proliferative phase. It’s important for married men to determine the nature of his wife’s insecurity with regard to her tests and when they’re most commonly delivered.
If she’s testing you at or around her ovulatory window, if she’s regularly insisting on a Girls Night Out around this time (yes, it’s a shit test), if she’s not sexually interested in you during her estrus, it’s likely she’s uncertain about your Alpha Fucks suitability to her. If her tests come during her luteal phase, if she’s nagging or provoking you about money, emotional availability or even how she wants to live closer to her parents, it’s likely her insecurity is based on her perception of your status, provisioning capacity or your Beta Bucks potential to make more of it.
While these types of shit tests based on Hypergamous insecurity may seem like a lost cause, understand that many of the same techniques used to capitalize on active tests still apply. Not all passive tests are delivered in the negative, and applications like Command Presence and Agree & Amplify demonstrate to a woman that you get it, that you see her tests for what they are, and you’re prepared for them without revealing the game you both know you’re playing.
Even well timed Amused Mastery (after you’ve established mastery of her) is enough to defuse a shit test with potentially negative implications. Once the precedence of your mastery is set it’s an easy fallback she’ll expect from you.
Granted, there are more direct ways of demonstrating your optimization to her – staying in better shape than she’s in is an obvious one, casually emphasizing passive dread (a.k.a. married social proof) is another – but the important part is recognizing what aspect of her Hypergamy is generating that insecurity.
In closing here I feel it’s incumbent upon me to address the most obvious response most guys will have to all of this: “Fuck that, I’m not dealing with her shit, just don’t get married, just don’t put up with it, just go your own way, call her on her bullshit” to which I’ll say, “yeah, you’re right, it makes more sense just to disconnect entirely”.
It would be great if women could be relied upon to be rational, reasonable agents as most would like men to believe they are. I mean, they should be, right? You should just simply be able to say to a girl or your wife “Hey I know all the games your playing and why you’re playing them, so lets just drop all of the pretentiousness and get down to fucking and living, OK?” But all this amounts to is negotiating for her genuine desire. Real desire on a woman’s part never comes from rational, reasonable explanations of why she should desire you, it comes from your demonstrations and your example.
Even the men who rule their women with an iron fist will still deal with women’s tests directly or indirectly without even realizing they’re doing so.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:35 pm
And the winner so far, in my second day of reading sexual conflict, is Shackelford. Yet another fine, fine quote that doesn’t even go far enough: “Believing the truth of one’s own lies may help to convince others of their veracity and so self-deception may evolve. …To the extent that he can convince himself that he wants a long-term romantic commitment, his self-deceptive behavior may help to persuade the woman that his intentions are sincere, and so self-deception may indirectly become a sexually selected trait. Likewise, a woman may consciously convince herself that she loves a man while unconsciously being drawn to his material or social resources.”
Gorelik, G., and Shackelford, T. 2011. Human sexual conflict from molecules to culture. Evolutionary Psychology, 9(4), 564-587.
http://www.epjournal.net/articles/human-sexual-conflict-from-molecules-to-culture/getpdf.php?file=EP09564587.pdf
Social conflict promises to explain *everything* we’ve discussed, exactingly, with testable predictions. Real true love can be a result of self-deception that *becomes* self-truth, for example.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:38 pm
arrgh, “social conflict” should be “sexual conflict”. And no, it doesn’t explain “too much”.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
Uh,..hehehe,..hahaha,…uhm, no.
I wish this were true. Not the pressing part, the ‘most women’ weigh 135 lbs. part. LOL.
Next time you’re in WalMart take a casual count of all the women you think you could military press. Heheh.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:56 pm
Here’s some really really bad test-“passing” advice:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sexualitytoday/201501/fifty-shades-grey-and-the-tests-love
January 16th, 2015 at 2:59 pm
@Softek, re: ““OH WOW UR SO STRONG”
Believe it or not I have actually gotten this said to me, more than once, and I have never ever been very strong. I used to think it was totally the women’s attempting to deceive me, but now I’m leaning to thinking that they were simply self-deceived and expressing how they really felt at the time.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:00 pm
Sun Wukong – “For some reason though women want to believe they can create a world where this is no longer true. Where you can provoke and provoke and provoke and nothing ever happens to you.”
Create a world? This is the world we live in. This is the source of the “Fuck That” response.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:03 pm
@Sun Wukong, re: “We know how dangerous it is to provoke someone physically stronger than us.”
Yes, but not just that comparison with ourselves; there’s a noncomparative threshold effect. Provided the guy is strong enough to break my face, it really doesn’t matter if he’s literally 101% my strength. 80% of my strength will still break my face.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:04 pm
@softek not for nothing but getting 135lbs of giggling, floppy girl over your head takes a lot more strength than it does to press a barbell
January 16th, 2015 at 3:06 pm
re: “OH WOW UR SO BEAUTIFUL”
See? A guy in the heat of the moment *totally* feels that way.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:08 pm
jf12 – “But is there a parallel that women should Just Get despite being told otherwise?”
No.
You see it’s inherent in their nature to behave this way. To exploit weakess, use trickery, lies, boobies, tears, and whatever else are all fair game to optimize hypergamy. They do get it actually. Until the men silence the feminists and their male stooges we will be in this conflict with neither appropriate weapons nor allies.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
@ Rollo
…Well…
…we all know the solution to this. We all better start working harder to pick up women. As men, it’s our responsibility. I’d go so far as to say we owe it to them.
Especially in this day and age when women are requiring way more effort to pick up than ever before.
Just remember when you’re practicing your pickup skills: if you’re not cleaning the bar from the floor before you press it over your head, it doesn’t count.
New Year’s Challenge: If you can’t press at least 300 pounds over your head by the end of the year, you don’t deserve that girl you’ve been eying. You know who I’m talking about. The one frequenting the deli section at your local supermarket.
Are you man enough?
COME ON BOYS! HOP TO IT! This is the new and improved definition of “BRINGING HOME THE BACON!”
January 16th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
Can it possibly be a mere coincidence that the threshold for male strength-attractiveness to females is exactly the point at which he can physically sexually force the majority of women?
January 16th, 2015 at 3:14 pm
@Softek, new motto “Man up and carry off those hawgs!”
January 16th, 2015 at 3:18 pm
I’m actually having a great time here throwing rocks expertly at trees and figuring out all the solutions to World Problems and not having to worry about shaving or taking a bath or anything.
But where are all the girls, anyway? Seriously, I know they’re lurking. Are they wary? Are they repulsed? Do they think they’d be intruding? What is it?
January 16th, 2015 at 3:28 pm
Softek – “Are you man enough?”
Is she woman enough to merit the effort?
January 16th, 2015 at 3:34 pm
One place w/ female scents.
https://lovingintheruins.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/doe-he-really-know-you-if-not-why/comment-page-2/#comment-8951
“A woman doesn’t “allow” him to be or prevent him from being a man.”
Obviously women do *try* to prevent men. It’s basically their job description. What the women are saying is, in one sense, apex fallacy: a woman wants a man to be so powerful that he completely crushes every attempt at resisting him she could possibly make. But the good news for men is that she’ll settle for a bloke who exceeds that minor power threshold we were just talking about.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:34 pm
@Rollo
They’re not “fat”, they’re “fluffy”.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:39 pm
@Softek
Your enthusiasm is nice, but I don’t owe women shit. Don’t work out or work on pick up or any of that with the pretense of owing something to anyone but yourself. If a woman is a complement to an already full life, then she is not your motivation to do a goddamn thing. You are the motivation to do things in your life.
Work out because you deserve to feel awesome.
Pick up women because you deserve to get laid.
Make fat stacks of cash because you deserve to live in luxury.
Women need to make themselves worthy of you, not the other way ’round.
Enlightened Self Interest, sir. You first. Everyone else a distant second. Internalize that concept and the rest of TRP goes down a lot easier.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:41 pm
BTW I’ve just recently learned that retail doe urine, including all the extracts commonly sold, in addition to the previously publicized possibity of prion diseases, carries a quite significant risk of leptospira.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:43 pm
I feel like people missed my sarcasm……
…anyone else hear a 747 flying by overhead, or is it just me?
January 16th, 2015 at 3:47 pm
Softek – “I feel like people missed my sarcasm……”
Perhaps a different font, if possible Comic Sans. No one takes Comic Sans seriously.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:48 pm
Ah, perhaps I did. Damn you internet and your lack of tone of voice.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:48 pm
@ Badpainter
LOL
January 16th, 2015 at 3:53 pm
@ Sun Wukong
No buddy, you got it all wrong. You have to earn women’s respect. What kind of man are you? Not man enough to make a real woman happy like she always deserved to be, since the moment she was born? She’s a girl, you know.
We’d be lucky to land a 350 lb nagging Wal-Mart junkie if we were jacked like Arnold. That’s the least they deserve.
Learn how to do dishes and cook, too. Even BETTER to wear an apron while doing it. Women LOVE that shit. TRUST ME.
There we go.
Although the old Softek wasn’t too far away from actually thinking like that. Scary. As I’m crossing the river and looking back I’m happy that’s behind me. Gives me the heeby jeebies.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
But is there a parallel that women should Just Get despite being told otherwise?
I’d say no, but it’s because they’re not supposed to be the dominant role. When dominance is established, other people (regardless of sex) tend to fall in to line. It’s therefore only necessary for the men in her life to “Just Get It”. If you lead, they will follow.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:54 pm
Wow, I didn’t know that wouldn’t show. I typed:
[ sarcasm ]
text text text
[ /sarcasm ]
January 16th, 2015 at 3:56 pm
@Softek
She’s a princess, you know.
FTFY.
January 16th, 2015 at 3:59 pm
Softek – “Learn how to do dishes and cook…”
Good advice inspite of the surrounding satire. I know very few women under the age of 50 who can cook. Most should be banned from the kitchen. Also, given the high risk of a woman claiming some form of veganism it’s imperative a man be able to cook if he wants to eat food and not the shit that vegans try to pass off as food.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:00 pm
@ Sun
Ty
Idk how to change text. Let me try.
She’s a [b]princess[/b], you know.
princess
princess
princess
Okay, let me post and see if it worked. But if I type “princess” one more time I’m going to have to end my life
January 16th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
429 comments later, the solution to the conundrum of women’s shit tests is the self-Jedi mind trick “there is no conundrum”. A woman doesn’t view a man’s job as passing her shit test, or ignoring her test either. She views his job as him just doing what he wants to do. She *requires* him to not have to conform to any of her requirements.
January 16th, 2015 at 4:51 pm
Re: Jedi mind tricks
Obviously I’ve been doing it all wrong. My zero tolerance for unnecessary feminine bullshit has always caused my to give up and walk away. Pussy isn’t worth it.
Pussy isn’t worth it.
Maybe it would be if there a good chance,say 4 in 5, of sex being a more gratifying experience than self abuse. Maybe if women had anything to offer but mere sex. Maybe if they were capable of commitment. Maybe if there were a chance of actually winning the game, instead just getting to play it over and over. Maybe if there ever any empathy and appreciation. Maybe if…fuck it.
So they offer very little at very high cost, and it’s a lottery system as to whether or not one gets the boobie prize. The real Jedi mind trick is convincing ourselves of the existance of sufficient rewards.
January 16th, 2015 at 5:23 pm
@Badpainter, re: “Maybe if women had anything to offer but mere sex.”
The funny thing is that several threads are converging / have converged recently. The one big difference between the physical presence of a postively responsive woman and, er, either nonphysical or nonpresent or negatively or nonresponsive or nonwoman was the manz’ feelz of twain-becoming-one and I’m-In-Love-With-Us. But with assisted reproductive technologies and recipes for feeling the love, any rational person has to conclude that the window of opportunity for women to prove their worthwhileness to men is closing rapidly.
In the not-too-distant future, what would be the point of having *any* beings who don’t like to do anything really but just waste money on unneeded shoes and cat food, who have to live by themselves because they drive everyone away?
January 16th, 2015 at 5:29 pm
“given the high risk of a woman claiming some form of veganism”
Veganism in and of itself is a massive massive MASSIVE red flag. I’ve never met a self-professed “vegan” that wasn’t dangerously loopy. They don’t live in reality. I seriously think it should be considered a symptom of all manner of psychological problems. Like the DSM-VI needs to go ahead and create a listing for it.
January 16th, 2015 at 5:29 pm
true that :)
January 16th, 2015 at 5:38 pm
If indeed, as now seems blindingly self-evident, the female’s role is to resist (NOT select) the male and the male’s role is to overcome resistance, what indeed is the female FOR in a future of controlled reproduction? The male can be wanted for his overcomingness and be given a shovel and made to overcome a pile of dirt, or be given a rock and made to overcome ballistic trajectories to hit a tree. But who really wants *any* beings for the purpose of their resistingness?
January 16th, 2015 at 6:00 pm
@Badpainter, re: “Maybe if women had anything to offer but mere sex.”
Part 2. You mean you aren’t excited by a woman’s “challenges”? You don’t admire the texture and odor of her shit tests?
January 16th, 2015 at 6:14 pm
Re: Part 2
No.
January 16th, 2015 at 6:31 pm
Re: challenges
A challenge is worth the effort if there is reward attached. A woman’s challenge is only rewarded with another challenge.
Smashing Pumkins summed it up best: “despite all my rage I still just a rat in a cage”
January 16th, 2015 at 9:20 pm
“Next time you’re in WalMart take a casual count of all the women you think you could military press.”….fuck… I overhead press 325……
use to say never date a woman who weighs more then I can curl but now its never date a women who weighs more then I can one arm overhead press
I was talking about the women and being domestic thing earlier in the week
https://tonsplace.wordpress.com/2015/01/14/more-musings-on-random-man-o-sphere-comments/
January 16th, 2015 at 10:26 pm
“@softek not for nothing but getting 135lbs of giggling, floppy girl over your head takes a lot more strength than it does to press a barbell”
To be all Sidney Serious about it, I was finally getting around to unstrapping some sheets of OSB (the stuff that looks like a giant knackebrod) off the roof-rack yesterday, as the storms had died down somewhat and the thaw meant they were getting soaked. Shit or get off the pot time, as the next bunch of crap Canadian/Greenlandic weather was on its way and I’d have to crack them off with a pinch bar or something.
They weigh bugger all, but in a thirty to fifty knot wind, they can snap your back like that. On your tod, miles from anywhere. Or worse, knock a window out of the van. Get them on the deck toot sweet, and weight them down with sacks of brickies’ sand for a couple of days till it passes.
Hefting a live and struggling victim over your head is a hugely different proposition to a deadweight of iron in a nice, hot, windless gym. You’ve got the X and Y to consider, as well as the Z.
Ohh hot. I remember hot … I think. I may have visited it once. Overseas.
January 16th, 2015 at 10:51 pm
All right, everyone fucking criticizing me over the “giggling, floppy girls” over my head.
I knock them out first. Obviously. I’m not retarded enough to press a conscious girl over my head. They don’t need to be conscious anyway when I rope them to the hood of my car. Every time I’ve picked up a girl at Wal-Mart like this and took off down the highway, whoever the state cop was that day would let me go because they thought the poor girl was a bloated deer.
“Yes officer, just hit it right when I was getting off the exit, thought I’d save someone the trouble of having to clean it up.”
“All right. You’re good to go.”
*takes a quick glance at the girl, moving his aviators down a bit with the tip of his finger*
*pauses*
…
“Okay. On your way now, son.”
Worst part is when we get back to my place, I take her off the hood and plop her down on the couch and wait for her to wake up, they always leave.
And not for the reasons you’d think. The first girl actually said straight to my face that she would’ve been DTF if I looked like the guy from Fifty Shades of Grey. She said she appreciated the effort but then told me to “be a real man” next time and be more creative, or get a new haircut. “Preferably both” — her words.
She was easily 300 lbs, and shut me right down. Not even a little boobage. She would’ve walked right out the front door, too, if she fit. I ended up having to open up the back door slider for her. That was kind of awkward.
But yeah. Talk about entitlement. You know how hard it was to lift her and all the strange looks I had to put up with in the parking lot?
After that I gave up. MGTOW living in a shack at the foot of a mountain in Idaho.
———
I’m being sarcastic here, by the way. No Comic sans, I don’t know how to change fonts. Judging by how well my last sarcastic comment was received, I just want to make sure some poor innocent bastard in Boise doesn’t end up on Forensic Files. Eesh.
January 17th, 2015 at 12:18 am
So, if a guy aces one little piggie’s single shit test by exhibiting Just Getting It by blowing her house down with his requisite Dominance, does he get an A++ for all shit tests across all eternity by exhibiting Just Getting All Of Everything by real-time deriving the Feminine Imperative itself from the mere idea of sexual conflict (plus the observed fact of females’ shit testing of males which thereby empirically fixes the parity of any putative theoretical involution)? Probably not, even though he should. Probably the little piggies will just rebuild their strawed mounds as if nothing happened.
January 17th, 2015 at 12:39 am
Interesting debate here but about SHIT TESTS
I believe that it is a false proposition stating that female shit tests are Pass/Fail, True/False.
I would humbly suggest that women are NOT testing for correct answers. They are in fact seeking to eliminate suitors who consistently give WRONG ANSWERS. (Beta Bucks Answers)
To me men give women too much credit. Women go around asking and testing… but men never consider the idea… “Hey! maybe they are illogical graders TOO!”
In PUA lingo we say “never give a female a straight answer”. But men don’t consider the implications of this advice. The implication that, Women CAN’T think in binary logic terms. So.. they can’t punish you if you answer outside of the expected response.
But they can (and WILL) punish you if you answer with a straight up Beta Bucks response.
THAT gentlemen is what they are testing for. They are making sure that you don’t answer in a way that indicates you are of lesser stature to her.
I claim loudly that, ANY response, lie, evasion, misrepresentation, joke, distraction is EQUALLY acceptable to the ALPHA FUX response.
So in reality… with women we are really playing a game to minimize our male Unforced Errors.
So men… consider not a world of True / False.
Consider a pink world of NO! and Maybes.
All of us in long term relationships with human females are really just riding a string of Maybe answers. Because as Rollo states “Hypergamy Don’t Care”.
January 17th, 2015 at 12:47 am
@Ang Amer, re: “They are in fact seeking to eliminate suitors”
The central idea of sexual conflict is that what females do is reject. A male doesn’t really get selected; she simply fails to resist him.
January 17th, 2015 at 12:55 am
LOL at all the women complaining about “having” to reject so many men.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/16/377239011/by-making-a-game-out-of-rejection-a-man-conquers-fear
January 17th, 2015 at 1:08 am
@Ang Amer, re: “Women go around asking and testing… but men never consider the idea… “Hey! maybe they are illogical graders TOO!””
Well, we all knew they were irrationally “selecting” the “wrong” men, i.e. the bad men for which there would be bad outcomes of resisting.
January 17th, 2015 at 1:13 am
Read it and … weep? smirk?
“I don’t give advice to men who want to know how to approach women. …If a guy isn’t having luck meeting and dating women, maybe there’s a reason. Why help him pretend to ACT less unsuitable …? That’s not doing other women any favors.”
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2015/01/16/377239011/by-making-a-game-out-of-rejection-a-man-conquers-fear#comment-1796172740
Rollo, please take a bow.
January 17th, 2015 at 9:33 am
I remember when I overhead pressed 235… I was embarrassed it was only. I wanted 365
Not sure there is a standard for “elite” in overhead pressing but I reckon elite would start at body-weight plus 100 pounds.
As a man who has pressed girls over head,s he has to do her part. Dancer/ gymnast chick isn’t to hard. They can balance themselves and hold their body rigid enough you don’t bleed off force into soft flesh. A girl who is willing is difficult because she shifts around and what not.
Did that for an in house commercial for a friend who owns a personal training bidness. It was pretty damn fun
You never really see an end to shit tests. You can reduce the number but not eliminate them.
January 17th, 2015 at 9:34 am
What we called elsewhere the Path 2 to mating, a non beta-bux situation in which the female takes a while to warm up fully during which the male has to prove himself and/or prove his love, is easily seen as merely a prolonged form of female resistance. And if the male falls in love then she feels victorious.
But if the male does not fall in love then she feels cheated/defeated. She hates herself for being too unwily or too unfeminine to provoke his love more than she hates herself for having sex without love. She even hates herself for going down that path, even without sex, without being able to induce love in the man.
January 17th, 2015 at 9:41 am
So, then, Pretend Vulnerability Game is the worst possible strategy for a male, and therefore is extremely rare. If a man is good enough to pull off Vulnerability as game, then he’d succeed much much faster and more directly through Invulnerability i.e. Dominance Game.
January 17th, 2015 at 9:44 am
But all women *think* Pretend Vulnerability would work, which is why they despise vulnerable men. This thinking of women is exploitable; an obvious exploit is Pretend Pretend Vulnerability (winking and smirking). But rather than talking about male techniqies for smashing female resistances, I’m going to try to think about reasons why women are hard-wired to erroneously believe in the efficacy of fake Vulnerability.
January 17th, 2015 at 9:46 am
Hmm. No, it’s not projection. Or rather, it’s not *just* projection.
January 17th, 2015 at 9:54 am
Dark Triad anyone? Heh.
January 17th, 2015 at 10:00 am
Hmm. Male resistance to exhibiting vulnerability is the single biggest topos in all of women’s literature and all of women’s fantasies. In reality, obviously we know betas are all too willing to be vulnerable and to commit at the drop of a hat. So women *don’t* actually want males that are vulnerable; women want themselves to *wish* a male were vulnerable but he resists. Females don’t want to be able to easily mentally penetrate a male’s brainz to make him fall in love; females want a male to force their brain-penetrating to be hard. Females like the struggle, the conflict.
So, you may ask, how do I go about being a brain-tease, i.e. how do I make a girl-boner in her mind that she will batter against my skull trying to engender love in me? I’m trying to show you how.
Hey girl, how’m I doin?
January 17th, 2015 at 10:05 am
All of the modernization of culture promoting females is for the purpose of convincing males to be more vulnerable. It’s deeper and more ingrained than any theme in recent decades of making women physically sluttier. You may have noticed that theme, a time or two … But trying to make men emotionally sluttier is much more widespread.
January 17th, 2015 at 10:11 am
So, here we are again. 100% all of our inculturization process as males is for the purpose of attempting to reduce our personal Dominance so that we would be less successful in reproducing if we gave in to that process. It’s all a giant shit test.
January 17th, 2015 at 10:18 am
And … that’s it. There aren’t any more levels to this. The hall of mirrors is a fun house, but there is nothing behind the mirrors.
January 17th, 2015 at 10:23 am
Presumably now is the time to explore Jeremy’s question of when and how to display tumescence.
January 17th, 2015 at 10:27 am
Here is a trick question. Should I choose a male or female pseudonym for my already completed romance novel?
January 17th, 2015 at 10:48 am
@jf12 – Is this true? Women’s selection criteria are more elastic/plastic/dynamic than men’s, right? Sure, we all are driven by context, social, ecological and otherwise, but women are more opportunistic because of their costs of reproduction – ‘men have one million 1 dollar shots, she’s got ten 100,000 dollar shots’. I mean, doesn’t this also explain why fitness tests/shit tests are ongoing? They want to keep testing as a way of ensuring the best selection. Maybe part of this has evolved because women have figured out that men can fake them out, so ongoing shit tests are a way to weed out the posers? Or even just based on an observation that men can change their behaviors? Separate from changes in context, of course.
@ softek – I like funny softek, more of him. Do you try this shit out with women?
January 17th, 2015 at 11:02 am
@ jf12 – From the hysterical movie, “As Good As it Gets”. The character Jack Nicholson plays is a successful writer of romance novels, Melvin Udall. When visiting his publisher, he has this encounter with the receptionist:
Receptionist: I can’t resist! You usually move through here so quickly and I just have so many questions I want to ask you. You have no idea what your work means to me.
Melvin Udall: What does it mean to you?
Receptionist: [stands up] When somebody out there knows what it’s like…
[place one hand on her forehead and the other over her heart]
Receptionist: … to be in here.
Melvin Udall: Oh God, this is like a nightmare.
[Turns around and presses the elevator button multiple times]
Receptionist: Oh come on! Just a couple of questions. How hard is that?
[Scampers up to Melvin]
Receptionist: How do you write women so well?
Melvin Udall: I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability.
January 17th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
@ jf12
Yep. At the fundamental level, you are either gaming or you are getting gamed – whether you realize it or not. That’s it… The rest is just various levels of detail of how and why the game is played.
Or, as Rollo puts it in his very first rule…
January 17th, 2015 at 2:52 pm
@DrJ, re: “Yep. At the fundamental level, you are either gaming or you are getting gamed – whether you realize it or not.”
Almost yep. Gaming is a way for an individual man to more covertly slip past rejection from women without as much societal blowback to him as there would be if he overtly dominated women. Overt domination being along the lines of “your No means the same to me as your Yes”.
January 17th, 2015 at 3:12 pm
@Glenn
The first time I saw that moment, Nicholson delivered the line so well I suspected he meant it. Even in my BP days I found myself saying “You know, he’s got a point…” after I stopped laughing.
Looking back at it through TRP lens now, the funniest part of that movie is that he did all that work just to game a single mom. Not worth it, bro. Not worth it.
@Dr J
I think that’s been one the hardest truths of the world to integrate in to my social interaction. I’ve found that it applies with the vast majority of people regardless of sex. If you’re not manipulating, you’re being manipulated. Nothing makes you see a completely different take of every social interaction during your day than that one concept.
January 17th, 2015 at 3:31 pm
this is pure gold, dont be a beta, your advise is really good
https://biggerbaddergentleman.wordpress.com/2015/01/17/how-to-have-fuck-buddies-and-uncomitted-relationships/
January 17th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
jf12
“Gaming is a way for an individual man to more covertly slip past rejection from women without as much societal blowback to him as there would be if he overtly dominated women. Overt domination being along the lines of “your No means the same to me as your Yes”.
Let’s see if we have this clear, jf12:
Overt domination as you see it means rape (“your No means the same to me as your Yes”).
Gaming then is a more “socially acceptable” way to force sex on an unwilling woman (rape her, not mincing words), without the ugly consequences for the man, as he would face should he directly attack her.
Congratulations — this is one of the clearest explanations of Game expressed yet.
You may as well rename it straight: “Game: How to Rape Women and Get Away With It.”
January 17th, 2015 at 5:21 pm
@Brody, re: “Congratulations”
I am awesome, ain’t I. You’re free to express yet more admiration.
January 17th, 2015 at 6:06 pm
@ Dr. Jeremy
http://www.attractiondoctor.com/
I went to your site and McAfee spit out a dangerous site warning. I have no doubt that your site is legit but for whatever reasons McAfee flagged it. You may want to contact them.
“Whoa! Are you sure you want to go there?
http://attractiondoctor.com/ may be risky to visit.”
January 17th, 2015 at 6:22 pm
@ Brody
Are you being satirical? Really, I can’t tell.
January 17th, 2015 at 6:24 pm
@Brody
How’s that mangina working out for you?
January 17th, 2015 at 7:51 pm
@ zdro1ds
Thanks brother. I will look into it and let you know when it is clear.
In the meantime, you can find my stuff at:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-attraction-doctor
January 17th, 2015 at 9:55 pm
@ Dr. Jeremy
Right on, goes through perfect on Psychology Today.
Which Halloween Costumes are Sexy and Attractive?
My Vote: Sexy, Roman or Greek slave girl/maiden outfit wins by a MILE! hehehe
January 18th, 2015 at 12:05 am
@ Glenn
Well, if I think back on it I have, plenty of times, just never followed through to the point of closing….but the important thing is that now I have no excuses not to try that shit with girls. And try it a lot.
Apparently I’m a man of many talents. I’m not only funny, I’m a former champion Hog Wrangler. Should’ve told that girl after she told me to “grow a pair” – hey honey, you gotta give me credit for being the first guy you’ve been with to last more than 5 minutes under your belly without cracking a rib. There’s gotta be a man card for that accomplishment somewhere out there.
Now just imagine what I could get for myself if I applied this thought process to the really hot ones. I don’t think that’s too far off. Last hurdle to get over is thinking the hot ones are any different from the huge ones. AWALT. Some come in nicer packaging, but as a single guy just looking to sink my cock into some pussy, hey man — it’s whatever. If they have a pretty face I can deal with just about anything.
And anyway, all the times I’ve blown my load with a girl, the only thing I can think immediately after is how much I want her to leave if she’s here, or me to get the fuck outta there if it’s not my place. “I want to stay and cuddle”…and it’s like…..no, get the fuck out. When that girl passed out on me on the couch I was wide-eyed and awake the whole night. Felt like I was snuggling up with Mighty Joe Young. Was pretty much thinking to myself from 3 to 8 in the morning, “Oh, fuck me.”
I just messaged that girl I hooked up with some odd months ago if she wants to give it another go. She’s a lot older. And that other girl I met who’s in her early 20’s. Dropped a line about doing volunteer work — it’s national help a virgin day. She already knew about me being a virgin. Then she says a lot of people don’t have the volunteer spirit. I said ‘yeah, what a bunch of selfish jerks. But there’d be a lot in it for them. I mean literally.’ She thought that was hilarious.
It’s like going fishing. I can feel the nibble. Give a little on the line, play with it a bit, then lower the rod and reel it in a little more. Feel the tug back and forth and around with the rod up, then lower the rod to give a little more ‘slack’….while you keep reeling it in. And eventually…there you go.
I lost enough fish and got enough of them stealing the bait right of the hook without me feeling anything to know that’s how it can work with women. That hot girl you wanted me to fuck, Glenn, was a friend of that married woman. And she blocked me immediately after finding all out about that.
My response? I was depressed about it. But then I remembered I have two more girls in my relatively immediate area (30-40 minutes away) that could be potential fuck buddies if I keep my Game super tight and don’t fuck up. Probably have a better chance with them anyway.
And I also got in touch with a girl I went on a quasi-date with (it was just hanging out, I was being pretty avoidant) that lived really close to me, but moved far away. I talked to her about hooking up and said oh yeah, I totally would’ve hooked up with you back then, but I thought you wanted a relationship with me and I didn’t want to stir up any trouble. Which was true.
She was surprised, and said she would only want a relationship. But funnily enough, of course, she started getting curious about why I wanted a fuck buddy. Anyway, I let her know crystal clear, if she’s ever back in the area and wants to hook up, let me know, because I’d love to. She took that well and was all “Okay” with a smiley face. I bet you a dollar she’ll be down for it if she’s ever back in town.
So recovering from the ‘debauchery’ of talking to a married woman, and losing a potential girl in the process….Solution?
Being really depressed for about 20 minutes, and then I decided to start fishing again in a bigger pool of girls. Yep, Softek’s gone to the dark side. And you know what? It feels good to stick my middle finger up to the world. Dust myself off and get right back in the game.
January 18th, 2015 at 12:23 am
The only way to be happy in life and with women is to enjoy performing and make that a core part of yourself. If it is a “burden” then one will always look for shortcuts and will be worn out by it. The only way is to enjoy the daily struggle to get better and thrive in all of its forms. Then, no shit test will be relevant for you as you will be too focused on performing for yourself and the woman will likely see less reason to shit test in the first place.
January 18th, 2015 at 1:03 am
New Yorker – “The only way to be happy in life…”
…Is too be perfect. If you’re not perfect you don’t deserve to be happy. The perfect is not the enemy of the good, it is the good. BTW your perfection, or lack of, is defined externally. Your own opinion of yourself is both worthless and a distraction from being perfect the eyes of others.
January 18th, 2015 at 9:01 am
This is not about perfection but I think a fundamental belief in your life force and wanting to use it to expand your life in every way. If you think about it this way, performance is just the only way that you can live your life. It is not a burden. Just a state of constantly trying to be better because life is richer that way. The feminine shit test is always there but quickly goes away if it sees you focused on performing and not paying it any real heed.
January 18th, 2015 at 9:20 am
@New Yorker, re: “The only way to be happy in life and with women is to enjoy performing”
Ok, but I’ll fix it. The only way for a male to be happy as a male in life, and to be happy with females, is to enjoy overcoming the females’ resistance to the reproductive process.
January 18th, 2015 at 11:47 am
@JF12
Yes, learning to enjoy overcoming the world’s resistance to the life you want for yourself is the key. The feminine’s sometimes odd behavior is a part of that.
January 18th, 2015 at 3:40 pm
“Every group of guys I’ve ever socialized with, giving each other shit is steady if not constant. If there isn’t shit, there’s tension, and not the good kind of tension either.”
In every group of guys I’ve socialized with, shit tests lead to physical violence.
All this talk about dominance testing being perpetual seems to be true for extremely non-violent men. With violent men, dominance often is a question of who hits whom.
January 18th, 2015 at 3:53 pm
@New Yorker
The only way to be happy in life and with women is to enjoy performing and make that a core part of yourself.
i.e. Internalizing the Alpha. This is much harder than it sounds when you’ve spent your whole life listening to people who told you to nurture the beta.
January 18th, 2015 at 4:06 pm
@gaiko
In every group of guys I’ve socialized with, shit tests lead to physical violence.
Sounds like you’ve been around shitty examples of friends. I have a group that the last time we were together, we wound upwatching two guys at a time wrestling in the back yard after some good-natured ribbing. Thing is, the matches were all good-natured as well. Just guys having fun without female interference.
Of course these were guys that weren’t non-violent. All gun owners, all having trained in martial arts at some point.
The shit tests were genuinely hilarious too. There was one moment when the black dude there noticed one of the white guys came from a background that might have racism in it. Takes a look at him and says “Hey, say nigga.”
White guy looks back and says “Nigger.” as white and racist as he possibly could with a huge, shit-eating troll grin.
Black dude hung his head realizing he just got clowned, and I stood there laughing at him and telling him “You brought that on yourself. You did that to yourself.”
“I know” he said with a chuckle.
It’s a shit test to see how well both guys deal with racial differences. In that moment it was pretty clear: they both understand racial differences, they both laugh at them, but they both would rather respect the man underneath than the skin outside. Exchanges like that reinforce the feeling where they might act as provocation elsewhere in life.
If shit tests routinely lead to genuine fights, then somebody in the group is failing them. Usually the guy that reacts with violence. Good chance he’ll be ostracized in short order.
January 18th, 2015 at 6:57 pm
Women are modern day Eves. Eve became an agent of Satan to entrap the then unfallen Adam .
See below for an article on Jezebel to get an idea:
https://www.biblegateway.com/resources/all-women-bible/Jezebel-No-1
January 18th, 2015 at 7:13 pm
I earn my pay with a rifle in places like Iraq and Afghanistan. Shit talking is endless inculding during fire fights. Soooooo dude you are wrong as two boys fucking.
January 18th, 2015 at 7:29 pm
I get the impression that there are certain types of men who ‘get’ shit-talking or smack talking for the male subcommunication it is, and those who think it’s a precursor to getting hazed, bullied or their assess kicked.
It’s one thing to post up on another guy, get in his face, talk shit and throw down. It’s another to have your gym partner talk shit about you being a pussy because he knows you can punch out a last rep if you get mad.
Too many guys have been conditioned to think the latter is bullying by their fem-centric conditioning.
January 18th, 2015 at 8:47 pm
That is the trick. To “get that it a shit test” and parry it. Recognize it is a test and react un-emotionally.
Whether it be a female or male test (entirely different in context and tactics to defend).
When Softek mentions the daughter’s outrage and she hates him, the only proper response for a game aware, red pill guy is indifference. Certainly not rage.
As an example of exhibiting indifference rather than rage, hate or contempt.
This is the proper response of a male to the male or female test:
(If youtube link doesn’t work google don draper “I don’t think about you at all”.
January 18th, 2015 at 8:49 pm
Yea Rollo that’s pretty spot on
Strange dude talks shit and he gets hurt, but it isn’t the same for one of your crew. In fact it’s a sign of how tight you are not to mention a test of mental quickness and stress reduction
January 19th, 2015 at 12:19 am
@NNJ, re: “Eve became an agent of Satan”
Yes. Working for the opposition; literally the Opposer.
January 19th, 2015 at 4:14 am
“There are sailors here??”
Yes there are! Racing on Puget Sound (man we have unpredictable and flakey wind around here!) on C&C, J boats, Olson 30, Catalina 30, Cal 29, and Benetau. Probably going to make it to Swiftsure this year.
This are all mixed crews, but so far they’ve been pretty drama-free. Maybe I’ve just been lucky on the boats I’ve landed on, or maybe I intuitively sniffed out the trouble-free ones and avoided the hysterical ones, I dunno.
January 19th, 2015 at 11:12 am
Great post. One thing that is vital is to maintain a dominant frame early. It’s hard to get back. I am seeing a girl now. I balance the comfort and attraction and she’s all up for wild experimental banging. She’s 27 so it’s all new.
But when she shit tested me about remodeling my home to make it more comfortable…I drew the line. Since then…no problems.
But there will be and then i’ll need to do this again. But I seen now the difference tackling this early vs letting stuff slide.
If you don’t draw a line on what’s unacceptable early….you’re always going to be on the back foot.