One of the first observations formal PUAs had when they were testing and refining their methods was that of the now ubiquitous shit tests women would present them with. It’s important to put this testing dynamic into context because, as most any guy who’s ever made an approach will tell you (not just PUAs) there comes a stage in that approach when a girl will set up a challenge for a guy. However, as any married man will tell you, that’s not where the shit tests end.
Over the holidays I was hanging out with my brother and watching my niece and nephew interact. My nephew is 16 and his sister is a very mature 12, but to see them interact, it’s one shit test after another. There’s the fluid teasing and taunting that comes from siblings that genuinely like each other (well, mostly), but as I watch these two interact I thought back to how my brother and I used to give each other shit, smack each other around and basically roughhouse like boys used to be able to do before a feminine-primary society decided they needed to be medically sedated for their ‘condition’.
I’ve explored this in Amused Mastery, but there’s a natural flow that’s learned between an older brother and a younger sister (or sometimes a capricious younger brother to an older sister) that translates to an intersexual relating with men and women later in adulthood. My brother is very conventionally masculine, a somewhat natural Alpha in his mindset, and his positive masculine frame carries over into his role as a father. This sets the environment in which his son and daughter are learning intertersexual interactions with one another. Both are very headstrong, but also respectful in a way that only a positively male dominant father can inspire.
I bring this up because I feel this learning illustrates both the problem most men later have with shit tests as well as the key to capitalizing on them.
No Passing
You’ll notice I didn’t say ‘pass’ the shit test. I think it’s a misnomer to view shit tests as a pass or fail proposition. Most men like that easy binary win-lose proposition, but the problem I have with that is that ‘passing’ a shit test implies finality. You will always be shit tested by a woman, so you never really pass that test, however you can and should turn those tests to your advantage.
Many a well meaning Red Pill woman (and a few Purple Pill ‘life coaches’) who don’t like offending the delicate sensibilities of today’s virtuous women like to call these tests ‘fitness’ tests. The renaming sprays a bit of perfume on an otherwise unflattering aspect of women’s Hypergamous psyches, but under that scent is the same truth,…
Women’s shit testing is a psychologically evolved, hard-wired survival mechanism. Women will shit test men as autonomously and subconsciously as a men will stare at a woman’s big boobs. They cannot help it, and often enough, just like men staring at a nice rack or a great ass, even when they’re made aware of doing it they’ll still do it. Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.
I think the early PUAs were correct in calling these test ‘shit tests’ because the nature of those tests they met in their field approaches were very much like the ‘shit’ they’d given and been given by their male peers throughout much of their lives. Part of the male experience is giving your friends ‘shit’, ribbing them, messing with them and otherwise talking ‘shit’ with them. If you’re in a fantasy football league you probably get that “smack talking” has been raised to an art form.
In this context it’s not so much a fitness test as it is a form of male-specific camaraderie – if it’s a test of anything it’s a test for the social intelligence that a guy gets that his friend is giving him ‘shit’ and can laugh about it and give as good as he got. This is part of men’s preferred overt form of communication which baffles women unfamiliar with it; if I’m playfully insulting you, if I’m messing with you, it means I consider you a friend and I expect that you’ll ‘just get it’ that you know this when I do.
Sadly this is often the first offense women take when they insert themselves into Male Spaces. They take the ‘shit talk’ personally, or at the very least have to make an effort (they believe they shouldn’t have to) to communicate in the open, often vulgar, but no less meaningful ways men do. Unless they were raised in the increasingly rare household of a strong masculine influence (fathers or brothers) it’s likely these women won’t “just get it” and bend their efforts to change that communication to something she’s more comfortable with, and something her feminine-primary expectations convince her is correct.
Getting the Test
Even if you had the benefit of having your bratty sister punch you in the arm after teasing her you may not realize this is a form of shit testing you. One of the most important aspects of dealing with a shit test is understanding the basic fundament of Just Getting It:
She want’s you to ‘get it’ on your own, without having to be told how. That initiative and the experience needed to have had developed it makes you a Man worth competing for. Women despise a man who needs to be told to be dominant. Overtly relating this to a guy entirely defeats his credibility as a genuinely dominant male. The guy she wants to fuck is dominant because that’s ‘the way he is’ instead of who she had to tell him to be.
Observing the process will change it. This is the root function of every shit test ever devised by a woman. If masculinity has to be explained to a man, he’s not the man for her.
A woman wants to know a guy Just Gets It, but she still needs a method to determine that he does – ergo she shit tests. For women, this method must be in as covert a form as possible to protect the integrity of not exposing her own sexual strategy to herself.
When openly analyzed this seems like madness to men’s striving for a rational solution to a problem, but her method comes from a subconscious want of not having to convince her hindbrain that he does in fact get it – and gets it so well that he neither acknowledges it overtly nor asks for her assistance in figuring her shit test out.
Observing and / or explicating a process will change that process, and a woman’s Hypergamous hindbrain knows this.
Essentially a shit test is used by women to determine one, or a combination of these factors:
a.) Confidence – first and foremost
b.) Options – is this guy really into me because I’m ‘special’ or am I his only option?
c.) Security – is this guy capable of providing me with long term security?
I would also add that these requisites imply a testing for masculine dominance as well as his sexual market value. Women want a man that other women want to fuck, and other men want to be. The conflict inherent in women’s shit testing is that she must simultaneously determine a man has other sexual options than her while also attempting to limit those option and making herself his primary focus.
There’s always been some debate as to whether women are unaware of their subconscious shit testing or if those tests come from a fully aware and deliberate intent. I understand the rational want of men to hold women’s feet to the fire and accept a personal responsibility for their action – shit tests naturally seem like a huge waste of time, not to mention duplicitous and false to men who value straight-talk solutions – but I’m going to argue that these tests are both intentional and subconscious depending on the context in which she delivers a shit test.
However, whether intended or not, it’s more important for guys to get that a woman’s testing is rooted in her inherent Hypergamous uncertainty. And that uncertainty extends to both the Alpha Fucks and Beta Bucks aspects of her Hypergamy. Women’s doubt of a man’s Hypergamous suitability is a constant, though subconscious effect for her.
Active Testing
When a woman actively, consciously, shit tests you, understand that it is always intentional. This type of shit test is the most common one PUAs encounter in the clubs or whatever their preferred venue may be. With the exception of maybe Day Game, women in these arenas are expecting men to sarge them, and therefore the propensity to deliver a prepared shit test is a conscious decision on her part. For the most part these tests amount to a fun game for her that serve the purpose of determining a guy’s SMV and his Hypergamy optimization potential.
An active test is entertainment to her in the same way it is for a bratty sister and her older brother. There’s usually a lot of witty (hopefully on your part) push-pull to this shit test exchange, but the latent purpose is her subconscious probing you for the possibility that you might ‘get it’ – that you might be able to play the game rather than having to explain it to her or having it explained to you.
As I’ve stated before, a woman who is into you wont confuse you, but a lot of men (particularly overly conditioned Betas) come to believe that any impropriety on his part might be taken as an offensive so they never boldly push back on these test as they should. They fall back on the “Yes M’Lady” white knight script they believe will set them apart from “other guys”, but the guys who ‘get it’ aren’t confused by shit tests. A big brother hits his bratty sister back when they’re play fighting; not so much as to harm her, but just enough to show her who’s stronger, who’s in control of his situation and isn’t afraid to push her back.
If a woman is not testing you in an environment where she could reasonably be expected to actively be doing so, she doesn’t have the interest in you to do so. A lot of men mistake a woman’s “Bitch Shield” as a cue of disinterest or disgust, when in fact these are often calculated shit tests. There are many ways to push past a Bitch Shield for a guy with the brass (and interest) to do so, but it’s a woman’s indifference, not her poised contempt, that cues disinterest.
Active tests are what single men are most likely to encounter in women, and it’s important for these men to understand that this type of test isn’t something you pass, but rather something you capitalize on. For a guy with even a basic grasp of Game these test should be considered nothing but softballs for him to hit out of the park.
Things to remember are Amused Mastery, Command Presence, Agree & Amplify and a basic Cocky & Funny ambience while employing them. I should also add that women deliberately putting themselves into social environments (like a club) who are delivering active shit test are likely at the ovulation point of their Estrus phase – adjust your Game (and birth control methods) accordingly.
If you recognize that you’re being actively shit tested always remember, play with her, and play with her. Shit tests of this nature are opportunities to build attraction as well as arousal, and women want you to get that they are opportunities.
Passive Testing
While active testing is done in awareness with intent by a woman (with only a passing element of her subconsciously doing so), a passive shit test is a reflexive, subconscious test rooted in a woman’s Hypergamous insecurities. In an active test, the latent purpose is one of playfully determining Hypergamous optimization of a new prospective mate. A passive test is rooted in the Hypergamous doubt that a woman’s choice to settle with that man was in fact the best optimization her SMV could afford her.
Passive testing always asks the question that her nagging, hindbrain Hypergamy can’t give a voice to, “Did I make the right choice? Is this guy really the Alpha I thought he was or could be?’
Passive testing is constantly exacerbated or defined by her previous sexual experiences (or lack thereof) or the fantasies of what could be if her circumstances were to change. For women, this is the mental space where the Alpha Widow dynamic is harbored. This is a where the subconscious testing of the man whom she consolidated monogamy with meets her unconscious comparing of him with her past, idealized experiences – or the experiences she believes could be possible if she could determine his suitability for her.
For the most part these tests are ones of measuring his performance and provisioning capacity against his Alpha tingles generating capacity. Passive tests are insidious in that they need a satisfaction of so many Hypergamous elements: Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks, the outperforming of past or fantasized sexual competitors, pushback masculine dominance, status, and many other prerequisites of long term Hypergamous optimization.
As you’ll probably guess the passive test is usually reserved for marriages and LTRs (live in arrangements being common). Any woman not familiar enough with you wont give you a passive test, however you might get one from your mother or a close female relative who needs some reassurance from you (or wants to put you in your place as a Beta). Passive tests seem to be the most hurtful, but it’s important to predict when they’ll come, what’s triggered them and the root insecurity behind them that women either aren’t consciously aware of or can’t openly reveal because, once again, it ruins the game and her determining if you ‘just get it’ without being told.
As with active tests demonstration, not explication, is the key to resolving and capitalizing on them. These are the types of tests that aggravate most men because they generally feel they’re locked into solving them. Thus, they make grandly overt affairs of bringing a woman’s ‘bull shit’ to light in an effort to quell her insecurities, but also to feel like they’re reasonably holding her personally accountable for her “stupid shit testing”.
And as with most similar efforts, appealing to a woman’s reason never ‘solves’ her problem. Hypergamy doesn’t reason, Hypergamy only feels. Demonstrating you get what she’s doing will help you capitalize on her insecurities far more than explicating that you know what she’s doing by shit testing you.
You’ll probably have guessed that passive tests are most commonly generated while a woman is in the luteal phase of her menstrual cycle, but it when that insecurity relates to her partner’s Alpha suitability there is some crossover into her proliferative phase. It’s important for married men to determine the nature of his wife’s insecurity with regard to her tests and when they’re most commonly delivered.
If she’s testing you at or around her ovulatory window, if she’s regularly insisting on a Girls Night Out around this time (yes, it’s a shit test), if she’s not sexually interested in you during her estrus, it’s likely she’s uncertain about your Alpha Fucks suitability to her. If her tests come during her luteal phase, if she’s nagging or provoking you about money, emotional availability or even how she wants to live closer to her parents, it’s likely her insecurity is based on her perception of your status, provisioning capacity or your Beta Bucks potential to make more of it.
While these types of shit tests based on Hypergamous insecurity may seem like a lost cause, understand that many of the same techniques used to capitalize on active tests still apply. Not all passive tests are delivered in the negative, and applications like Command Presence and Agree & Amplify demonstrate to a woman that you get it, that you see her tests for what they are, and you’re prepared for them without revealing the game you both know you’re playing.
Even well timed Amused Mastery (after you’ve established mastery of her) is enough to defuse a shit test with potentially negative implications. Once the precedence of your mastery is set it’s an easy fallback she’ll expect from you.
Granted, there are more direct ways of demonstrating your optimization to her – staying in better shape than she’s in is an obvious one, casually emphasizing passive dread (a.k.a. married social proof) is another – but the important part is recognizing what aspect of her Hypergamy is generating that insecurity.
In closing here I feel it’s incumbent upon me to address the most obvious response most guys will have to all of this: “Fuck that, I’m not dealing with her shit, just don’t get married, just don’t put up with it, just go your own way, call her on her bullshit” to which I’ll say, “yeah, you’re right, it makes more sense just to disconnect entirely”.
It would be great if women could be relied upon to be rational, reasonable agents as most would like men to believe they are. I mean, they should be, right? You should just simply be able to say to a girl or your wife “Hey I know all the games your playing and why you’re playing them, so lets just drop all of the pretentiousness and get down to fucking and living, OK?” But all this amounts to is negotiating for her genuine desire. Real desire on a woman’s part never comes from rational, reasonable explanations of why she should desire you, it comes from your demonstrations and your example.
Even the men who rule their women with an iron fist will still deal with women’s tests directly or indirectly without even realizing they’re doing so.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:06 pm
@Glenn – You see the difference, yes?
That’s my point. Ballbusting occurs in different contexts. If you’re in an unsettled context – new to a group or a workplace, hanging out with your insecure douchebag acquaintences at a bar – I agree it gets used as a hieararchal settling / re-enforcement device. I think that when the context changes and you pass a certain point of friendship with other men, or if you’re in a more laidback environment, it’s just frivolous fun.
On a point you made above, about regret and having to assert agency over past acts, and going beta or whatever being a way to get women without doing the hard work – I think that’s basically correct. But while you have to own the fuckups, the next step is to forgive yourself, and remember they exist but kick them to the curb. We have free will and the past need not constrain what we do in the future, for the most part. It’s a bit like decision making in the military or business. Do a post mortem to figure out what you did wrong, but don’t linger. Move out smartly and don’t repeat that mistake… there are new mistakes to be made.
More broadly… Red Pill stuff embodies some truths about life that I’m only starting to understand (but will pass on to my young son as I figure them out). The biggest one is that if you want enduring success as a man, to be able to look in the mirror each day and be proud of yourself, you have to put in the work to become a better man than the one you were born as. You gotta be better at 9 PM than you were at 6 AM. It’s work and often it’s not externally rewarding but it’s your mission, should you choose to accept it. Keeping past failure from crippling you (from causing you to cripple or emasculate yourself) is essential. I’ve thought hard about the MGTOWs and have decided that while there’s merit to their complaints, and they have the right to do what they want, unless they are going off and focusing their life essence on being excellent in some other sphere of life, then the “I quit” reaction itself is sort of a butt hurt and un-manly thing to do. Sorry, but they can be a lot better than that. Yeah, go your own way… but achieve excellence for your own sake. Care about yourself enough to give yourself a gift of admirable accomplishments. Don’t let society cause you to negate yourself.
I’ve been floating along quite successfully for a long time but digesting the red pill over the last year has helped me re-focus on what I’m doing. There’s a *lot* of excess capacity in my life that I’m going to try to use. More sex would always be nice – who turns that down – but the broad goal is excellence, standing up straighter in all areas of my life, accomplishing and doing. Women talk, men do. I’ve never had a woman problem and am faithfully married, and have always gotten hit on despite going to seed a bit in my sedentary life but over the last six months or a year, since the Red Pill truths have started sinking in, my wife praises me in public more, and I’m actually getting hit on regularly and getting random compliments from women. I am not doing it for that, but it’s an interesting side effect. I think women can smell it when you have a sense of mission in your life. Seeking opportunities to be involved in things and to excel is making me more Alpha and less Sigma, and I miss being a highly accomplished flake, but on the other hand I feel good about what I’ve changed. With the exception of a few pieces of baggage I’m still trying to kick to the curb, the past failures are just unemotional memories, like stop or yield signs reminding me how to drive on a particularly tricky piece of road.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:16 pm
@ Sun Wukong – Fantastic take on male interaction. And I agree, the friendly ball busting absolutely is a subtle reinforcing of hierarchy. I also think that in groups of long term friends, the whole thing can become a bit of a game and very playful. Like arguing politics with a friend of 20 years who disagrees with everything I say politically, we might argue a bit but always end by agreeing that humanity is fucked or something. It’s like we have to test limits and jest with each other to keep our social capital or status up or something.
And it’s fun for me. I just went through something with a gig I did (at a local non-profit) and as happens sometimes at casual acoustic gigs where I’m more background, sometimes people will be quite close to me as I’m performing and without thinking just raise their voices to be heard over my playing, without realizing they are doing so. In this case it was two people who were behind me and raised their voices so loud I had to stop playing. I whirled around and said something rude to quiet them and continued.
However, as we know, the slightest display of aggression these days will get you stomped and one of the people is this guy who has social dominance in this little setting when I’m not around, but when I am, well let’s just say people give me that dominant status instead of him. He hates it and tries to assert dominance with me in subtle silly ways that I don’t even argue with. I don’t submit but don’t escalate and just ignore him when he does these things, complying if it seems sensible. I essentially do amused mastery with him and it drives him crazy. But then again, I’ve got it like that and he’s an obese, broke, loser who can only be a dominant in a very tiny pond. Sorry, not my problem. And fyi, if he hadn’t tried to dominate me, I would never have squished him like a bug. I don’t go out of my way to belittle other men and in fact project solidarity with other men, and try to support them for the most part.
He grabbed on to this and made little deal of it with me afterwards. However, because I handled it wisely and didn’t escalate insanely, i gave the guy who runs that event the chance to intervene and since I didn’t lose my cool it all just dissolved and finally, after 2 years, this guy backed down to my dominance. Social intelligence goes a long way in avoiding overt conflict and many people don’t have any so they play themselves right out of the game by overreaching as this guy did here.
You see, what he didn’t get is that even though he’s staff, I’m donating MUSIC and that is much more valuable than the dish washing and other supervisory stuff he does. To the guy running things, I’m the one who’s indisposable – very few talented musicians are going to do all the gigs I do for free and deal with the conditions I perform in without much complaint. Knowing this ahead of time, I let the other guy cut his own throat. I only escalated for a short moment twice so the guy running things knew I wasn’t going to back down, and then let the rest play out over a couple of days.
He’s my bitch now – he always was but now he knows it. I guarantee there will be no more trouble from him. Like Softek says, I didn’t get all this social capital by accident and I’m sure as shit not going to let some guy way down the food chain outplay me. He could exercise, skip a meal, get a job that pays more than 12 bux an hour, learn an instrument and become a crooning song machine like me (that has been a lifelong project, since my first guitar at age 5). Or he can just not fuck with me. But I don’t let bitches dominate me.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:39 pm
Jeremy:- “Every group of guys I’ve ever socialized with, giving each other shit is steady if not constant. If there isn’t shit, there’s tension, and not the good kind of tension either.”
Ah, right. Got it. Sledging, by any other name, then?
e.g.
“Warnie, you’re a fat fucker!”
“Yer I know mate, can’t help it.”
“So what are you going to do about it?”
“Dunno mate. Thing is, every time I make your wife come, she feeds me a biscuit”.
(Names, account etc. changed to protect the not-so-innocent)
January 15th, 2015 at 2:41 pm
re: eggs are expensive vs sperm is cheap
Also explained by sexual conflict. Sexual conflict is what causes and maintains sexual divergence, not vice versa.
Which ever sex is made to often fail in reproducing despite trying will be the sex whose gametes are cheap. We may as well call this the male sex in every case. Male is defined by failure. And the failure to succeed is caused by the resistance to success. Female is defined by resistance.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:44 pm
Male is striving for unity. Female is striving for disunity.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:44 pm
@ Joe Blow – ” Move out smartly and don’t repeat that mistake… there are new mistakes to be made” – Dude that is the other thing I needed to hear, for sure. I keep my discipline up most of the time but as I’ve made clear here, at times I get sideways, I’m incredibly grateful to you and Agent P and Sun Wukong and Softek and Rollo and M. Simon and Jf12 and everyone else here for being a listener to me the past few days. I’d gotten off track and the truth is there are very few places i can go for some good orderly direction, or where I can share openly about any of this. Funnily, I almost ran to one of my sisters to cry on her shoulder but caught myself – they hate when I’m weak and almost never help when I am. Don’t go to the barber shop for ice cream.
Another challenge for me is age. I get so tempted to think I’m already past it at 52 but really that’s just another racket I’m running to let myself off the hook for performance. Got it, yessir, yessir! I am who I say I am – I’m 100% in integrity with the future I frame myself, again.
The burden, it never goes away. I either shoulder it cheerfully and soldier on or give up and lose and die. Not much of a choice when you really think about. And that’s why I’m down on MGTOW, as you have pointed out. Making a lifestyle of giving up and rage and no constructive relationships with women and little to no sex – this looks good to whom exactly?
January 15th, 2015 at 2:53 pm
re: new mistake
If I’m not mistaken “you look like my next mistake” tends to be a cheeky girl thing, like Tay Tay’s desperate plea for some man brave enough to add his cheap contribution to the last vestiges of whatever nonsluttiness she may yet possess, somewhere.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:56 pm
@Glenn, re: “that’s just another racket”
It’s all a Jedi mind trick, even the tricks you play on yourself.
January 15th, 2015 at 2:59 pm
There was a bunch of lesbian feminists who claimed all hetero sex is rape. To which the proper response would be “You wish!”
January 15th, 2015 at 3:06 pm
re: “Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.”
Let’s kick this up a notch, from spicy to flaming dragon hot. Men would prefer not to have to verify sexual availability; men would prefer not to have to expect resistance. Women would prefer to be able to more successfully resist nondominant men than dominant men.
Bam!
January 15th, 2015 at 3:10 pm
Softek:
https://whoism3.wordpress.com/2012/11/17/confessions-of-a-reformed-incel/
January 15th, 2015 at 3:11 pm
Sexual equality is therefore in the opposite direction of nonreproductive technologies and the making of fertile eggs even rarer. Sexual equality is therefore in the opposite direction of shunning males and forcing them to waste their gametes outside of females. Sexual equality is therefore in the opposite direction of empowering women.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:15 pm
In fact, the only way “forward” to more sexual equality would be to eliminate natural reproduction, cut off all testicles, and make it literally expensive for any man to reproduce: make him pay for his own sperm.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:17 pm
I must be stupid or nearsighted because I can’t see any possibility of a soft landing from here.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:27 pm
I’m failing to imagine what a soft landing would look like. All I can see is plummeting population and sexual chaos.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:31 pm
Suppose instead female resistance vanished.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:35 pm
“Dragging her back to her dorm with her fighting against me simply didn’t feel right.”
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/he-said-no/
January 15th, 2015 at 3:36 pm
@ Glenn
Thanks and I do take it to heart. I argue passionately, but I’m not on here to “be right” and fill some narcissistic need. I do believe that you and the other guys on here are bringing up important and valuable perspectives. I personally appreciate it and learn a lot from you all.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:53 pm
Alison Pischedda, Adam K Chippindale, 2006. Intralocus sexual conflict diminishes the benefits of sexual selection. PLoS Biology, 4(11):e356. DOI: 10.1371/journal.pbio.0040356
http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.0040356
Free sexual reproduction necessarily de-selects for intralocus sexual conflict, as opposed to interlocus sexual conflict, because intralocus conflict necessarily negatively impacts the fitness of any offspring. Thus a drive to intralocus conflict is a resistance to reproduction, and therefore will be the preferred female strategy.
It almost writes itself.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
@ Rollo
I think your age/attractiveness chart shows that male attraction is “right answer/wrong answer”.
It doesn’t matter if a man is a janitor or a CEO. Every man knows what hot is and he wants it. Personal status isn’t part of the equation.
January 15th, 2015 at 3:57 pm
Intralocus sexual nonconflict will, in equilibrium anyway, be solely constrained by external selection. For example, we would all benefit sexually by being bigger, except for the consumption of external resources.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:12 pm
@ thedeti – Holy shit did that Reformed Incel article set my hair on fire. What a story, and I feel like I’m watching Softek write his own version of it. Yet another aspect of the power imbalance I mentioned to Dr. J. – the level of suffering sexless men endure. At one point he talks about not “feeling human” because of the lack of human touch. It’s so poignant and real and i can relate, due to my experience over the last few years.
I dare any woman to read that and not have a moment of “oh shit”. You see, ladies, you have also been fed a ration of shit about how men’s sexuality works. It really is relentless, imperious and will insist on being addressed, beyond anything a woman can imagine in her experience. Nobody is saying that you should HAVE to fuck him or anyone, but why does your thinking stop there?
You feminists are all about “justice” (the mere mention of this word makes me puke now as it’s been turned on its head) – where is the justice in a man being filled with mad sexual desire and being set loose in a society in which many men cannot connect sexually with a woman at all. You don’t owe that guy a lay – you owe him compassion, as a human being, not as a fucking feminist. This is the world that we are born into – he didn’t choose to be a pussy junkie, that’s his biology at work. And he didn’t choose to born into a world in which half of men are rejected completely by all women.
@ jf12 – As I digest the sexual conflict stuff, well, let’s just say you can consider my world officially rocked. It explains everything. And of course resistance is the woman’s way. Fighting. Disunity. And men’s is advance, bring together, create, join – like you say, woman can’t afford to be idealistic about love, they would be getting fucked all the time by guys with shitty genes and having babies nonstop. But a man can, and the “fight” makes it all seem so poignant.
Really, this is great stuff, jf12. Thanks.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:22 pm
“males had an inherent advantage in interlocus sexual conflict”
G.S. van Doorn (2009): Intralocus sexual conflict, in: The Year in Evolutionary Biology, Ann. NY Acad. Sci. 1168, 52–71.
http://www.rug.nl/research/theoretical-biology/_pdf/doanyas09.pdf
Even if girls insist on fighting, males win when males can fight how males want to fight. Males only lose when forced to fight like girls want to fight.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:24 pm
@ Dr. J – Wow, you demonstrated something right there that I’ve only ever seen men do. We all were having a back and forth, critiquing you based on sound reason but also passionately and not gently. Instead of turning it into an ego thing, you actually engaged thoughtfully. Who knows who’s right – you make some incredibly thought provoking observations and clearly are an expert in your own right. The social aspect is valuable, but I also think there is something meta about the biology – but you decided to actually listen and not just fight blindly for your “side”. This is perhaps the best aspect of this site – it’s often a space where open inquiry and intellectual debate happen. There are very few spaces like it and all I can say is thanks for being a huge contribution to it.
And like I say, I’m no scientist. From what I do read, much of this is still up in the air – look at JF12 just discovering sexual conflict theory, in a flash an entirely new dimension is revealed and in a way, it goes to support the ideas your present about context and the dynamics of the actual sexual marketplace that a man/woman finds himself in at any given moment. And yet, I’m sure we’ve been selected and are springloaded for it too.
I don’t want to go full faggot on you, so let me just close by noting that this only closes your gaping mangina up a little bit for me, lol… :-)
January 15th, 2015 at 4:29 pm
@jf12
“Dragging her back to her dorm with her fighting against me simply didn’t feel right.”
That story… my story of losing my virginity my first year of college isn’t much better. Basically a chick threatening to commit suicide if I didn’t fuck her. I was scared shitless, it was a horrible experience, and the psychotic bitch was the worst relationship I ever had.
If anything it taught me one thing: somebody else’ decision to kill themselves or do something stupid to themselves is not my responsibility. In situations like that where you feel pressured to do something you don’t want to by someone abusing your good will and sense of duty, walk the fuck away. You don’t need to protect her from shit; you’re in need of protection from her.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:30 pm
For anyone unfamiliar, Dr. J and I do this back and forth thing in many a thread. I value his input, especially if we disagree, and I think we’re more agreed on things than not.
That’s how an exchange of ideas should go.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:32 pm
@Deti, what happened to M3? I haven’t read him comment in some time.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:35 pm
@jf12, Men fight in the physical, women fight in the psychological. When either sex crosses over into the preferred combat of the other sex it belies their contempt for their own gender.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:37 pm
@Glenn
One does not need a lab coat and a fancy PhD from a prestigious university to be a scientist. One need only apply the Scientific Method to problems in their life:
Hypothesize. Test. Observe. Refine Hypothesis. Repeat.
In my mind, being a scientist is strictly defined by applying that process to problems for deeper understanding. In other words, it’s not about your credentials, it’s about your methods.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:41 pm
@Rollo
I like when Dr. J comments here. He hammers on the concepts we discuss from a professional perspective. It’s much needed to avoid letting the community turn in to a worthless echo chamber. I’ve also never seen you or anyone else challenging him as disrespectful. I would think it would be more disrespectful to not challenge him; it would imply he’s not even worth enough respect to respond to him honestly.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:47 pm
@Rollo, re: “When either sex crosses over into the preferred combat of the other sex it belies their contempt for their own gender.”
And yet psychological Game, conversation Game, works well at overcoming resistance. Very well.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:48 pm
Well, compare and contrast Dr. J (who admittedly is more or less pro-Red Pill) with Alpha Female for a proper perspective.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:50 pm
When it comes to sex, females want to make it harder than it needs to be …
January 15th, 2015 at 4:51 pm
M3 has more or less left the building. He lurks here and there; I last saw him here a few months ago.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
January 15th, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Glenn:
Yeah, “Confessions of a Reformed Incel” is M3’s magnum opus; his most important contribution to the manosphere. It is required reading, really.
January 15th, 2015 at 4:56 pm
@M Simon
January 13th, 2015 at 8:21 pm
I have to do some reading on NLP brother…any recommendations
January 15th, 2015 at 5:01 pm
Still think “Demonstrate don’t explicate” holds true…IMO I feel goes towards maintaining frame, securely.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:05 pm
@kobayashii1681
Still think “Demonstrate don’t explicate” holds true…IMO I feel goes towards maintaining frame, securely.
Pretend that when you suddenly make her wet and she can’t figure out how you did it that you’re a magician. Telling her how you did it ruins the trick. That’s fine for other magicians, but I want her to always be in the audience. She just wants to be entertained and mystified, and I just want to keep her that way. Fuck telling her how the trick works.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:16 pm
@ zdr01dz: “Since a guy can’t have 2 wives….”
In the west, and westernised societies, openly anyway. Here in Africa, (Not forgetting Islam..though some believe Islam is one of the most gynocentric religions) we can maintain more than one wife, legally and culturally.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:17 pm
@Sun Wukong: “Fuck telling her how the trick works.”
My sentiments exactly…
January 15th, 2015 at 5:22 pm
“49 year old Brooke Shields shows off her sizzling hot body in green bikini”
Brooke is a Hollywood Star and she might be a very nice person. However I can say with 100% certainty that I’d left swipe her on Tinder. That gives me an odd feeling because I’m a nobody and nothing special to look at. But to me and probably a lot of other guys she is no longer worth driving across town to meet.
This could by why attractive women and unattractive women joined forces to gang up on men. The attractive women knew that sooner or later they’d be unattractive and they wanted a new social order that helped them retain status.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:25 pm
Thanks all. The respect is mutual.
And..it is not a mangina Glenn!! I just got ripped a new one while escaping with secrets from deep within the matrix. I’m hoping the gaping thing will heal up. Then again, you guys keep telling me that being a big asshole is sexy to the ladies. So, maybe I’ll just keep it that way…lol
January 15th, 2015 at 5:29 pm
I LOVED the Dr. Jeremy / Rollo back and forth.
It made me think.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
By the way guys, there’s this new series called ‘Togetherness’, check the first episode, through red pill lenses….You can practically predict what’s coming next.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:30 pm
@zdr01dz
The Brooke Shields moment from the South Park movie pretty much sums up my reaction to any time she’s opened her mouth for about 20 years now. How do you say “Shut up, you’re no longer relevant” in feminist?
@Dr. J
Then again, you guys keep telling me that being a big asshole is sexy to the ladies. So, maybe I’ll just keep it that way…lol
I don’t quite think that’s how we meant it, but if that’s how you roll…
January 15th, 2015 at 5:33 pm
Softek, Glenn:
I hear you, brothers. It’s a shame you have nowhere else to go to express these sentiments.
I’m starting to think that there need to be certain “male only” and “restricted viewing” blogs for this. I don’t think it’s good that men write this stuff down to be read in public and dissected on hostile venues where doxxing and outing can take place. If this were a normal world, a boy would unload this on Dad. Or you’d watch older boys and then take cues from them.
But in today’s world, Dad’s an even bigger pussy than he is. Or Dad sees him every other weekend and two weeks in the summer. Or Dad is gone or dead or lives 2000 miles away. He has no older brothers because he’s an only child or have one other sibling.
He has no older men you can look up to because they’re themselves huge pussies, or are working 80 hours a week, or wisely give no time to boys because they don’t want to be accused of pedophilia, or are unemployed layabouts.
He can’t say any of these things in public because if he does, he’ll be frogmarched to the principal’s office, hauled before the Student disciplinary committee, or sat down in a conference while some SJW from the HR department reads him the riot act. And then he’ll have a sitdown with his pastor or priest who’ll tell him that “that’s not nice”.
He can’t go to a therapist at $120 per 45 minutes because he can’t afford it. Even if he could afford it, it’s a waste of time for him/her to tell the man that he needs to “get in touch with your feelings” and “forgive your mom” and “remind yourself that you’re speshul”.
That therapist won’t tell him the truth. The truth is that everything around him is fucked, and therefore he is fucked up. He is damn near hopelessly unattractive because he never learned to be attractive. He never learned how attraction works. He never learned it because no one knew it or took the time to teach him. The only things he knows about girls are from the romcoms his divorced mom watched, and from hearing the women around him talk about how her widdle snookums is such a good boy and as long as he’s a good boy, the girls will reward him with their sweeties.
Mom tells him there are lots of dumb girls out there who sleep with badboys and jerks, and that he shouldn’t be one of those because “normal” girls hate those kinds of guys. Church? Forgeddaboutit. They have fed him a steady diet of “Be nice, be yourself”.
The truth is that he’s paunchy and flabby, he’s out of shape, he’s overweight, he dresses for shit, and has a shitty haircut. The truth is that he lets everyone in his life walk all over him because no one told him any different way of relating to the world. The truth is that most girls don’t give him a second look. The truth is that the girls who do give him a second look quickly move on when they realize he’s a social retard who can’t carry on a conversation like a normal person. The truth is that he cannot recognize it when a girl actually DOES like him. And THAT is why he can’t get any play.
The truth is that the rest of the world is fucked too. The truth is that almost all the girls around him are not virgins. The truth is that there are NO women anywhere who “just want a nice guy who will treat them right”. The truth is that women hate hate HATE nice guys, despise them, would rather gouge out their own eyes than be touched by one.
The truth is that they hate him, and they hate everything he was created to be. The truth is that he was SPECIFICALLY TRAINED to repulse women.
The truth is that the more of a jerk he is, the more self-centered he is, the more women will like him. The truth is that the more he focuses on his mission and making money and keeping that money for himself, the more women will like him. The truth is that the more he focuses on himself and what he likes and what he wants, the more women will like him. The truth is that the more he takes and the less he gives to undeserving people, the more women will like him. The truth is that by deposing those women from the pedestals he put them on, he will actually garner some of those women’s attention.
The truth is that most of the women he knows are just as damaged as he is. They are alpha widows, still pining away for some hot man out there who pumped and dumped her. Or they are socially inept. Or they are pushing off marriage to the last possible minute while they take longshot odds at locking down the Hawt Guy of the Month. Or they are mentally ill, either suffering from PTSD or depression. Or they believe sex is ugly and dirty because their fucked up fundie Christian parents foisted those ideas on them. Or they contracted a sexual disease. Or they are forcing everyone to wait while they try for their Career. Or they’ve had sex with so many men they’re unable to bond with the sorry sucker who finally wifes them up at age 33. Or she’s been on the Pill so long that her Fallopian tubes are scarred up or she has polycystic ovarian syndrome; so unbeknownst to her, she can’t get pregnant, and she won’t find that out till she marries the sucker and discovers to her horror and that of her newly minted husband that she’s barren, sterile – caused largely by her own hand.
And there’s not a damn thing you can do about any of this. And there’s nothing you can do about it but come to a bunch of websites and talk about it, and do the best you can to learn so you can get better.
The worst part of it is that it didn’t have to be this way.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:36 pm
@ Sun Wukong
haha, comedy gold!
January 15th, 2015 at 5:54 pm
@Glenn
Glad I could be of some help.
You my friend sound like you need some Sanctuary for yourself. A nice quiet corner where you can go and meditate and let go of shit.
Personally I have two such spaces. My year round space is the work shop. just go build shit, useless stuff, interesting stuff, boat parts, what ever. Good meditation for me means having the body and hands just occupied enough that some portion of your frontal cortex is occupied with not chopping your hands off or riding your bike into the ditch, and just enough brain power left to slowly unpack some problems.
My far more effective meditative space is of course sailing. Same idea really, I don’t have to think to sail at this stage, Thinking is really only reserved for race tactics, everything else on the boat is totally automatic at this point but its physical so it focuses my mind nicely, particularly if I am training and not racing, just going with the flow, getting the boat surfing etc. For me, on one boat in particular that I sail it is my self actualization. If I died tomorrow I would be happy with the mental states I have achieved while sailing and the absolute calm it brings to me. the feeling of total fulfillment and almost emptiness at the same time. Its awesome. Doing overnight off shore races is just as good if not better. Out in the ocean or the lake, literally just stars, moon, wind, waves, its like you can dematerialize as a person and let all that shit wash away.
Motor bike out in the country is pretty good too, but I don’t get any of that when its twenty below.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:56 pm
@thedeti, re: “The truth is that he was SPECIFICALLY TRAINED to repulse women.”
Yes. The ultimate expression of female resistance is their deliberate training of males to specifically encounter greater resistance.
January 15th, 2015 at 5:59 pm
I really like Sun Wukong’s example of a giant smirk. An example towards which we could all train our faces.
January 15th, 2015 at 6:06 pm
Back on topic. A true fitness test would be eminently passable: “I will have sex with you if you are fit enough.”
January 15th, 2015 at 6:15 pm
@jf12
I really like Sun Wukong’s example of a giant smirk. An example towards which we could all train our faces.
Bruce Lee was a shit actor but a spectacular martial artist, hence the reason the only emotion he could put across perfectly was ridiculous levels of cocky arrogance. His smirks make me laugh to no end. So much “Bitch, please” in them that he didn’t have to raise his hand to bitch slap somebody.
I don’t think it’s about training your face. I think it’s about knowing you’re so much better than somebody in some domain that you can’t help but express the cockiness openly. Your body knows exactly what to do from there: flaunt that shit.
January 15th, 2015 at 6:15 pm
@Johnycomelately
January 14th, 2015 at 8:37 pm
“I’ve seen men set up for devastating divorces by their spouses only to have the tables turn when they realized assets were in the husband’s parent’s name. You will never witnessed a bigger 360 and supplicating grovelling until you’ve seen a woman who has realized her gambit has failed and the cash and prizes has vanished.”
Ain’t that the truth. Men must learn how to hold the cards, and how to be prudent from an RP perspective, financially and socially….especially in this day & age.
I am already training my young nephew in the RP, being a man….the FI’s tentacles have our generation and millennials firmly in their grip,
January 15th, 2015 at 6:37 pm
@Rollo Tomassi
January 15th, 2015 at 11:43 am
On unchanging standards….pure gold!!
Demonstrate, don’t explicate. hehe!
January 15th, 2015 at 6:50 pm
@jf12: “There was a bunch of lesbian feminists who claimed all hetero sex is rape. To which the proper response would be “You wish!”
hahaha!
January 15th, 2015 at 6:50 pm
One vote for the law of the jungle. Its more honest then the bullshit we have now but I reckon most men would be worse off
January 15th, 2015 at 6:56 pm
I realize this is a bit late but…
HER: “You just think you know everything.”
YOU: “That’s why you needed to marry me.”
January 15th, 2015 at 7:09 pm
@Glen
I think your anger about my comment reveals your frustration and you are projecting. You must overcome. Your comments consistently reflect that you understand the AFBB dynamic as explained here. It is good that you recognize some truth about these concepts. However, from reading your comments throughout this blog, I think that you are applying these descriptions as instruction. I do not think the description of AFBB herein is intended to instruct. I think and hope the intention is to illuminate reality rather than set a standard of behavior that men “should” comply with. If the description is accepted and applied as instruction, then it only helps to facilitate female hypergamy. If we work to conform to these AFBB characterizations, then we are playing into the hand of the feminine imperative because these characterizations are exactly what hypergamy desires, as clearly stated repeatedly throughout these writings. Yes, like it or not, we are controlled by biology. But, no free man realizes his full potential and real freedom by succumbing to any such set of standardized characterizations. The real “winners” blaze their own trails. The real “whiners” complain as they follow trails blazed by others.
January 15th, 2015 at 8:34 pm
Girls can tell phenotypically if you will be a alpha fucks obviously and beta bucks yes phoenotypicallt success
January 15th, 2015 at 8:36 pm
@ Not Born Without A Bucket-Load of Hyperbolic Horseshit Falling Out Of My Yap – Whatevs, yet more rhetoric that makes no difference. And just so you know, I’m not at top form at the moment – i’m venting stuff here and guys who know me for a while here have really responded helpfully . I’m not sure at all what you are up and am not edified by any of it.
You make points which seem to be at great pains to seem profound but they aren’t. Nobody is conforming to jack shit here. What Rollo is doing is framing a narrative about intersexual dynamics that is based on reality and isn’t shaped morally or logically by the FI. To note that women optimize for looks versus provision at times does not mean we are conforming to that norm.
Let’s make it simple. Do you want to get laid? If married, do you want to stay that way or in an LTR? If so, how are you doing at that? Have you got any better ideas than these? What are they?
January 15th, 2015 at 8:50 pm
@ Glenn
You were talking about declining SMV, and understanding what some omega guys must feel when they’re supposed to be in their prime.
I always thought this one hit the nail on the head. All too appropriate for the craziness everywhere these days. Chilling.
Above all, this line right here:
“I am a lover who’s never been kissed
I am a fighter who’s not made a fist
If I’m alive, then there’s so I’ve missed
How do I know I exist?
Are you listening to me?”
This one potential face of a failure to transtion to TRP looks like. We’ve seen it recently. There’s a lot of guys like this that are ticking time bombs. On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have suicide, something I’m pretty intimately familiar with.
Perhaps the hardest part to get over while working on all this stuff is coming to terms with the full extent of what’s happened to us being men raised in a feminist culture.
Included in that is the idea that men have no problems in this culture. Everything’s swept under the carpet. Men’s sexual needs are treated as if they don’t exist while the articles about ‘liberated women’s sexuality’ pile higher and higher.
It’s been said:
“The most dangerous creation of any society is the man who has nothing to lose.”
That Reformed Incel article is good stuff. On point.
We’re all we’ve got as far as I can tell. I don’t know any guys IRL that I can talk to about any of this stuff at all. That says a lot about how repressive this culture has been towards men. Of course, on a covert level. But the damage is being done whether feminists ignore it or not.
January 15th, 2015 at 9:07 pm
@Rollo
Haha, I can definitely tell you’ve had more practice than me. Good one.
January 15th, 2015 at 9:44 pm
@Glen,
I’ve been married little over 20 years, one daughter, done everything imaginable with women. Married at 31, she was 22. She was (this is shallow but I’ll use it for reference anyway) an “8”, me a 9 good looking and worked my ass off in the gym for 10 + years, with a great income. We couldn’t have more children after our daughter, 5 failed attempts, discovered damaged fallopian tubes, cysts, ectopic pregnancies, unfortunate. I consider myself lucky in life in some respects, but no one who reaches our age escapes some very tough shit. I’m 51 and I believe you are about the same age. I spent the first 4 of the last 8 years slogging through some extremely tough shit, lost a very lucrative job after almost 17 years while at the same time really accepting the realizations described in Rollo’s book and on this blog. I’ve been very fortunate that I was and still am fairly high natural SMV. It made things easier for me than some others. However all of us have a tough row to hoe. Sometimes I change that around and say “tough ho to row” because of the pervasive rampant bullshit we negotiate and discuss here. The hardest thing for me was really killing the beta. I was not able to accept that reality until I saw it as killing an illusion. I had internalized a white knight illusion to the point that I beleived it was part of me. It was not actually a part of the real me, it was only a useless illusion keeping the real me in a state of near death. Once I realized this, it was easy to kill and I began to come alive in a way I had not fully realized before. I have built my own business and my income surpasses the previous. This blog is great. It has made me realize there are others in the world who understand what I have known for awhile but couldn’t discuss because no one agreed. It is nice to have comrades even if we shit on each other once in awhile. This is not ment to be sociociopathic or encourage inconsideration of others but know this…no one is more important than you…no one will care about you more than you can care about you…no one knows you better than yourself and therefore no one is better equipped to look out for you. EVERYONE is a player in life. The reality of our existence makes this fact inescapable. This is not a bad thing. It is a great thing. This is the essence of freedom. There is much to be enjoyed in the game. We are all “created” or formed as seperate individual beings with seperate individual free will power. I sincerely wish you the best in exercising your will.
January 15th, 2015 at 9:48 pm
Shaking myself off from my last comment, I realized something:
Shame is a huge trigger for me. Wanting to be the ‘scumbag’ I always have been deep down, but feeling those pangs of shame.
Shame that’s trying to suck me back into the BP.
The only thing that has saved me from this has been rage. Specifically, rage based on how fucked over I’ve gotten in my life despite having nothing but the best of intentions. And I mean best. I was the perfect White Knight, the quintessential “Good Friend,” etc., the most caring and attentive person you’d ever meet in the world.
Reading that Incel article again helped me tap back into that.
And I said earlier when I told that lady’s daughter that I honestly didn’t care, and to go fuck herself….that that was the most honest thing I might’ve said in my entire life, I meant it.
I could just feel myself slipping back into BP for a minute there, because I felt ashamed of myself. That girl you know actually SAID that: “I’m ashamed of you.”
I’m ASHAMED of you? A girl I have NEVER MET in my ENTIRE LIFE? Excuse me, but fuck you.
Things are getting clearer. When I let that shame take over me and I feel brow-beaten….that’s when I know someone’s trying to take control of my masculinity. I’m giving my power away.
It felt great to be rude, vulgar, and offensive to some little spoiled cunt that NEEDED some rudeness, vulgarity and offensiveness to shake her out of her entitled stupor.
Sorry honey, mommy’s old enough to make her own decisions. I know they probably raised you to blame men for everything and make excuses for women no matter what, but I ain’t playing that game.
I don’t want to be beating a dead horse here. To other guys here this little thing I went through might not seem like a big deal, but for me it’s been huge. Lost a couple good friends over this and the threats shook me up.
Not behavior I want to repeat, I can let married women alone, and be okay with that, for the sake of avoiding debacles like this. For my own sake.
But the piling on of guilt and shame — trying to MAKE ME feel GUILTY, and even my friends not talking to me — what a bunch of fucking pussies. They were good friends and we had fun while it lasted, but they wouldn’t even let me give my side of the story.
Anyway, I searched “shame” and “RM” and this is what came up. How appropriate.
I’m pissed, but in a good way. If there’s anything BP guys need the most, it’s self-respect. And when they see how they’ve been a doormat all these years while the wool was pulled over their eyes….that’s enough to piss off the pope.
http://therationalmale.com/2012/07/27/pathologizing-the-male-sexual-response/
January 15th, 2015 at 9:59 pm
If age is an issue with you (and it is softly tapping on my door) know this real example of why it doesn’t have to be. My wife has an uncle who is 87. He is still active, golf, mows his yard. He looks like a healthy 70 year old. His wife of 50+ years died several years ago. They had a very active sex life. Everybody in her family gossiped about it because she bragged about it. He dated someone his age for a while after she passed and that woman died. He started dating another, she died. For the past 2 years he has been dating a 50 – 51 year old. He is an exceptional example, but I bring him up for the sake of encouragement because a lot of the reason for his success is his positive attitude and the fact that he remains physically active. Just a little effort each day makes a difference and it can be increased incrementally without burning out.
January 15th, 2015 at 10:02 pm
Softek
Yes…rage is a good thing. There is a reason for it. Our own internal rage can get us off our ass…..
January 15th, 2015 at 10:16 pm
The Deti, nice rant Bro!
I know some of those boys, friends of my boys. But honestly, in my little sphere of reality, not even close. My boys and their friends (20 – 23 range) are feminized, in that they believe some of the feminist bullshit, but when it comes to actually dating or girl chasing, not even close to your description.
Watching the Craft last night with my 21 year old. Football star loads up the new girl in high school. Asks her for a date, then as she opens her mouth, shuts her down, saying that actually he has something else to do. My boy and I start howling, and then my boy says that he has to remember that play cuz it is so good. I tell him that it is straight out of the PUA handbook, he looks at me quizzically, and says something along the lines of, “whatever Dad. Girls love to be ignored.”
I never taught him this. It is just the way his generation in my part of the world go. My oldest is always telling his girlfriend that she is the women so it is her job to clean up after him. And she does.
They all know about game and some even practice it at the clubs. The difference? They don’t go on bleating about it constantly, it just seems to be a natural part of them.
I think if you study the 25 or younger crowd, you may be amazed at how they view the world. In my part of the world, the pendulum is swinging again.
January 15th, 2015 at 11:57 pm
Rollo – “Men fight in the physical, women fight in the psychological. When either sex crosses over into the preferred combat of the other sex it belies their contempt for their own gender.”
Two questions:
1. Given men are absolutely and without exception forbidden from fighting women in physical how do we win with women without resorting to fighting in the psychological?
2. How is Game not fighting in the psychological?
Yes, I presume women are, if not the enemy, then certainly the opponent. If the meta relationship is some form of positive collaboration by competition then it exists only in the meta. In the micro there is just conflict, and no obvious collaboration except amongst the various SMP quislings.
January 16th, 2015 at 12:23 am
“I think if you study the 25 or younger crowd, you may be amazed at how they view the world. In my part of the world, the pendulum is swinging again.”
Well there is something to be said about coming of-age in the hypersexual smut culture. A lot more low hanging fruit. A lot tighter feedback loop. The “natural” aspects of game don’t have time to linger and die on the vine, untested, unrewarded.
Sex is expected. Its ‘no big deal’. Those birds are aggressive. So that little reptilian brain is getting his doses of dopamine without 6 months of hand-holding, mind-fucking, and drawn out pubescent hypergamy spasms.
She’s competing to be the sexiest, even if she doesn’t yet know what that means. But she knows enough. By the time they are of sexual age (what, 13 now?) his teenage apathy plays perfectly into her desire to rise up in the herd.
Now, these are the top 20% I’m guessing as well. Those other guys are watching this play out. Lacking the SMV to parlay that apathy into spinning the carousel of these sexually independent mares, they fragment among the trajectories between basement video game fatties and hard-working beta shlubs playing out the script, assuming they can work their way into that kind of life (beta bux to those birds on the other side of the wall.)
I don’t doubt that a lot of those guys have adopted a lot more of the natural game aspects, but I think that has as much to do with the culture favoring the sexual reward as opposed to natural masculinity and dominance leading the way. Feminized is feminized.
I’m sure those girls wouldn’t call themselves Feminists either. But along the road to locking down a beta provider, they will not hesitate one second to unleash full feminazi wrath on some unlucky beta who dares question her past or her college/credit card/travel debt, makework job, or expectations of her equalist utopia put option (err desire to have a wedding) in her mid 30’s.
January 16th, 2015 at 12:31 am
@Badpainter, re: “In the micro there is just conflict”
Yes. In the sexual conflict framework it is the sexual rejection of males by females that is all-important, and the sexual selection is a by-product, an afterthought, basically a mere failure to reject.
January 16th, 2015 at 12:37 am
re: “Men want to verify sexual availability to the same degree women want to verify a masculine dominance / confidence.”
I’ll restate myself. Masculine dominance is nothing but a man’s behavior directed toward a woman reflecting his level of absolute certainty that he could indeed bang her if he felt like it regardless of the negative feedback he may be receiving. More plainly, he behaves like he has the power to not take no for an answer. It means nothing else. And women have never meant anything else by it.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:33 am
@Softek
Shame is a human thought process/emotion that is lightly dealt with by modern psychiatry. It hasn’t been fully diagnosed in its affect on humanity.
Consider this question…
Why do you wear clothing?
If you live north of the Rockies this time of year, that answers itself. But if you live south of the southern U.S. border, there’s almost no reason to wear clothing at all most of the year.
You wear clothing because, sometime when you were very young (and this is true for literally 99.99% of humans on the planet), your grandparents or parents first exposed you to ostracization. A very painful experience for a child who is so needing of love and attention, your elders humiliated you for not wearing clothing in front of other family members. The experience of potentially being excluded from family for not conforming was so painful, that the result is a population on this planet that puts clothing on every morning. That’s the power of shame. It underlies much of daily human behavior, it is the primary punishment in spanking children, it is the primary tool in shaping culture…. As individuals we rarely confront it directly, we simply avoid it. Belonging is more important.
We avoid shame and ostracization by seeking to belong to something, we’re always seeking to belong to a social group of some kind. In fact, there’s ample evidence that humans simply wither and die without social contact. Individual humans simply cannot take being excluded, at least most of us can’t.
Women wield shame with impunity in the social sphere of things. It’s one of the greater weapons they have, mostly because it can worm it’s way into a mans thought process when trying to do right by the people he knows.
What you need to realize is that what you’re really feeling is the threat of being excluded from those you’ve invested in, of losing reputation that you’ve built with a group of people (important for men). But, and this is important, it is just a threat. Realistically, it is individuals who choose who they associate with, and individuals are the ones who decide whether or not someone is trustworthy. Women wield this threat from a position of weakness, but it works because reputation is so important to men.
Guilt and humiliation will bind your behavior through fear. You have to be free of it to be a free person. You can be free of it by recognizing that anyone shaming you is actually issuing a (most of the time) empty threat of ostracization, a threat they have no real power to enact.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:44 am
I read M3’s piece on incel hell when he first posted it. I related to it so well it was almost as if I had written it. Women lurking would be wise to read that and attempt to understand it, for in doing so, you’ll grasp just how painful a lifetime of blue pill world rejection from women can be for a man. If you can understand the enormous pain that M3 was expressing, you can understand the pain that western women put their men through.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:22 am
In other words, given as truth what we’ve been told that about 40% of human males have reproduced, from one point of view 60% of males failed some shit tests to some degree. From another pov women’s resistance was too weak for some 40%.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:33 am
@ Not Born To Comment Usefully – Nothing new in your comment and why you think you need to continue to remonstrate me here – now repeatedly – is a mystery. Get it – I’m having a bad week, I digested the Red Pill a while ago but sometimes it’s not easy. That’s it. I’ve become a selfish prick and love it – I’m just having a lot of emotion come up about my past. You are not – good for you.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:58 am
@ DeNihilist – Great observation about the younger guys. My community is a college town with a great music program and I’ve fallen in with some of the young musicians and hang/play music with them sometimes. You are exactly right in some ways, the under 25s are evolving and some are incredibly smart about sex and women. I think it has something to do with porn and women’s open sexuality – they never had women on pedestals the way my generation did.
However, I still see a huge amount of Betatude and BP too in some ways. Not sure what to make of it. One of these young guys often talks to me about women and he’s a mixed bag. He’s ahead of the game in many ways compared to me at his age in terms of how he sees sex and women for sure but he’s also such a pussy in other ways and tolerates some crap from women that stuns me. I’m trying to convince him to spin plates after going through a weird time with a crazy bitch, and I think he’s starting to do so.
It’s only logical that men will respond to these changes. Remember, guys my age (52) have seen this entire arc unfold in a single lifetime, I was born in 1962 – I caught the tail end of conventional middle class America just as feminism was beginning to destroy it. The degree of change in such a short time is staggering. Men’s reaction will have to be radical in response and must come somehow. Going “ghost” is only one kind of reaction, there will have to positive ones as well.
January 16th, 2015 at 7:58 am
“In his Big Think interview, Vanderbilt anthropologist Ted Fischer explains that because love is a very positive evolutionary force, the barriers to it are actually quite low” for men.
http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/how-to-fall-in-love-36-questions-and-deep-eye-contact
It makes evolutionary sense for men to fall in love in order to fool themselves into sticking around. In contrast, it only makes evolutionary sense for women to slightly fall a little in love just long enough to fool the *men* into sticking around. Relationships are hard because falling in love is so easy for men, which makes falling *out* of love so easy for women.
This is my epitaph on women’s love: vestigial at best.
January 16th, 2015 at 8:01 am
For men: try to imagine shit-testing a woman you love.
For women: realize we now know exactly what you really (don’t) feel.
January 16th, 2015 at 8:03 am
A question for women, seriously. What is it that you think prevents a man from ignoring all of your feeble attempts to resist him? What?
January 16th, 2015 at 8:11 am
“Feminists will soon agitate for “Erection Means Yes” laws.”
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/01/15/not-a-sjw-true-believer/#comment-156110
Actually historically that was the position that feminists used to claim that women could not rape a man with her vagina. The funny part is that women don’t know their own anatomy as well as men do.
Man: “You get hard too, sweetheart.”
Women: “I do?”
January 16th, 2015 at 8:16 am
@ jf12
You’re asking interesting questions of beings that aren’t capable of answering because they lack the capacity for serious introspection.
BTW it’s men’s capacity for serious introspection that makes it so easy for us to take the bluepill.
January 16th, 2015 at 8:31 am
@ jf12 – “love: vestigal at best” – Holy shit, of course. Romantic love is designed to make me subjugate my own libidinous desires and I’ve got a lot more of them, so I need more love to be kept in check. Wow, fucking wow. You are on a roll of epic proportions, buddy, keep it coming. The conflict stuff is almost like taking another Red Pill.
@ Softek – My psychological journey started with dealing with “shame based” issues 30 years ago. Books like At My Father’s Wedding and Healing the Shame that Binds You, and others in that genre might be fantastic for you. It’s way off topic here, but I’ll try to just give you a quick sense of what I learned. A broader way of seeing it is via the lens of codependency, fyi.
Essentially, what I concluded is that I internalized a very negative view of myself, my needs, my wants and who I was. Of course, this cannot rest easily with our ego and sets up a human being for nonstop internal conflict, which you demonstrate here continuously. It reflects your endless inner conflict and the suffering that results from it. I bet when you let your anger out and let it be known, people are shocked – they have no idea what your inner world is like.
This plays neatly into an FI shaped world. Shame presents itself as regret and embarrassment after social episodes of many types, replaying scenes in your head etc. It also feeds anger and awkwardness, making me behave badly and giving me real ammo for my shame. It’s a loop in this sense that thrives on its own feedbacks. With women it’s perfect for them. They learn how to trigger your shame and use it against you inside of a relationship. They also find it pathetic and as unsexy as anything they can imagine – your inner pain is a vaginal drying agent. Also, when you get angry, in today’s culture, you are already in trouble as the slightest aggression from a man simply cuts him out of any kind of dialog and makes him the loser. Shame prevents us from feeling comfortable “standing up for ourselves” and due to the rage inside we also often overreact, creating even more shame. It’s a deadly cycle of self-destructive, emotionally exhausting nonsense.
I netted it out eventually as “love deficit disorder”. And this sets us up to crave the comfort we get from sexual and other contact with women even more than most men. I essentially didn’t get enough love and affection during crucial phases of my development, and was also relentlessly denigrated and shamed by my father (this did a lot more damage than the beatings, PTSD aside) so I walk around like an ego maniac with an inferiority complex, with occasional outbursts of white hot rage. Which is nice, I’ve got that going for me, lol.
I have some bad news. Once you are a pickle, you can’t become a cucumber again – at least that’s how it is for me. What I’ve done is develop awareness and coping mechanisms to release these negative feelings. But I don’t think we can change our basic identities as they are formed while we are young. If you want to know where to start, I’d say learning to deal with the anger was perhaps most productive for me, perhaps it’s an issue for you too? Rage is like soiling your own diaper and sitting in it – nobody else is suffering but you, yet it seems satisfying. It’s not. I’ve made huge progress with it, I don’t get angry nearly as often as I did when young and I can let go of it quickly when it does come up. But that’s coping, not changing my basic make up.
Hope this was helpful.
January 16th, 2015 at 11:18 am
zDz:- Brooke Shields@49: “I can say with 100% certainty that I’d left swipe her on Tinder.”
She’s really got that (current) Clint Eastwood look now. But not in a nice way.
January 16th, 2015 at 11:57 am
@ Glenn
This played out verbatim for me and thank you for previous directions.
“Shame presents itself as regret and embarrassment after social episodes of many types, replaying scenes in your head etc. It also feeds anger and awkwardness, making me behave badly and giving me real ammo for my shame. It’s a loop in this sense that thrives on its own feedbacks. With women it’s perfect for them. They learn how to trigger your shame and use it against you inside of a relationship. They also find it pathetic and as unsexy as anything they can imagine – your inner pain is a vaginal drying agent “
January 16th, 2015 at 12:39 pm
@ jimmy the saint – Nice. There is a lot more to say about this, but again, I’ll try not to do 5000 words, lol.
Fear – Shame and fear can be confused when we discuss them. Shame is self-loathing, fear results from anticipation of some kind of future negative outcome. In the codependency world we talk about “shame spirals” and they are really about how fear and shame interact and compound each other in a downward cycle of outlook and emotional state.
In my case, I have chronic, acute, childhood onset PTSD, which went on ‘roids after a life threatening rock climbing fall in 2002. So my fear is particularly poignant, and anyone with anxiety of any sort will find shame interacts with it viciously. Shame gives me the negative tableau in my mind to project negative ideas about myself into the future due to my low image of myself and I scare the shit out of myself with them.
Generalizing from my experience doesn’t necessarily make sense for everyone, no doubt. But the anxiety that comes from the burden of performance, made worse by being someone someone who is destined to lose a lot more than they win (almost all men) – will combine with shame in a horrific cocktail of emotional self-abuse. It’s a dark, lonely place that is very difficult to extract oneself from.
The best approach for this is experiential and group therapy. I used to do group, pychodrama-yoga workshops that combined intense physical relaxation with psychodrama. I did an inpatient, 5 day codependency program at the Caron Institute. I did Reichian energy manipulation (not Raiki, totally different). Group therapy is great and horrifyingly painful because after everyone goes off good behavior, the same shit that comes up in your life comes up there and it’s really hard to see. Funnily, the most useless group therapy I ever did was a “men’s group”. All the men seemed locked into their views and really, they were mostly stuck in fucked up marriages and the therapy had nothing to offer them. It was sad and there was no progress, so I quit it.
It’s very handy in some ways to have men with low self-esteem and shame issues in the world. We are always trying to prove something to ourselves and the world so when properly harnessed, we are machines. I heard a sales VP of a 2000 strong sales force say once, “Give me a room full of insecure men and I will give you a salesforce”. Lol. That’s my stupid life in a nutshell.
Still out of sorts here. Going away to have some fun for the weekend, hope I can just leave the negativity behind. I’ve found that to some degree, my dark periods have a life of their own. The more I fight them, the worse they get. It’s more like riding out bad weather than anything I can fix. Sigh, and again thanks for this space and the men here. Truly.
January 16th, 2015 at 12:45 pm
@ Glenn
re: “love deficit disorder”
That sounds a lot like the book I’ve been reading. Just got it last week. It came out in 2012, is about Emotional Neglect, and I think it’s the first book ever published on the topic.
As far as a love deficit goes, the title of the book is “Running on Empty” — very much in line with that, and gets into detail about internalizing guilt and shame and rage.
Running on Empty: Overcome Your Childhood Emotional Neglect
“I bet when you let your anger out and let it be known, people are shocked – they have no idea what your inner world is like.”
Precisely. Very, very long story short — as I’m sure you could go on forever about your childhood and everything you went through, and all the complex dynamics of it —
— my needs as a child were not met. And as an adult, I’m “running on empty.” It’s taken me a very long time to realize that not everyone grew up the way I did; as a matter of fact, not many people did. There are a lot of people like me, and people who grew up like you did, Glenn — but we’re in a minority, statistically speaking.
And again…it’s taken me a very long time to realize that. The book on emotional neglect that I mentioned is fantastic. I’ll have to check out those two books you recommended to me; if you have any interest at all, I highly recommend that you check out the book “Running on Empty” and see what you think.
I’m glad I have an RP perspective, because some of the stuff in Running on Empty gets into expressing emotions. We all know that’s a big no-no with women. But if you separate the wheat from the chaff, I think it’s a very enlightening book. Although what’s funny is I probably would never recommend it to any guy who isn’t familiar with TRP.
Because TRP is separate from specific childhood issues. Even if you grew up in a healthy family we’re still living in a feminized culture. It’s just that perhaps for guys like me, we get hit doubly hard, because we’re even MORE ill-equipped to deal with this culture than guys who were brought up in at least reasonably functional families.
And your comment did help a lot. I crave connection like this once in a while. I always wanted it from women but that is so far in the past now — it feels good to have some validation and some relating points with someone who’s been through something similar. Who can have REAL empathy.
I have all the hallmarks of PTSD but that was never addressed, and I also learned to hide a lot of my issues to stay out of trouble. I didn’t want medication, and wanted to stay out of the mental hospitals, and I learned very quickly to not express any kind of bad feelings, or let on that I was struggling so seriously. Lots of times I’d have cut myself up and almost committed suicide the day before or the day of a therapy appointment but I’d clean myself up and go in and chit chat like everything was going fine, and they’d buy it every time.
And the therapists I did let on about having problems, that I said there were things I never talked about that I wanted to talk about — they never pressed me. Or asked what it was. At one point I brought up my childhood and it sounded so unbelievable he said, “Remember, memories are of impressions, not facts.”
That pissed me off and I basically said fuck you, and that was about the full extent of therapy I ever got for what I went through.
Anyway, yes…I didn’t have my needs met either. “Running on Empty.” Combine that with thinking being a White Knight and Quintessential Beta I could get love —
— on the plus side, having dealt with a grand total of around 13 years as an incel so far, I’ve become quite selfish, narcissistic and even ruthless and vengeful. So at least I’ve got that going for me too. Heh.
In a way I’m just allowing myself to vent what I’ve felt all along. I was just holding all the rage and anger inside. To let it out and basically tell someone to fuck off for having the nerve to mess with me…..feels great.
I don’t have to explain what I went through to them. What I’ve been learning now is self-respect to the point of, instead of feeling shame, feeling empowered and JUSTIFIED to the point of just saying “fuck you” and meaning it.
January 16th, 2015 at 12:56 pm
@Glenn
As sort of an aside to your talking about shame, it seems like so many men in the ‘sphere come to it as a result of a lifetime of shaming and other kinds of psychological damage. Each time I see a new mainstream article starting to take note of TRP, it’s about how it’s misogynist, angry, and vengeful. All I can think is “This is the only space where men who are truly broken from a lifetime of having his natural inborn feelings pathologized can go to fix the damage society has done. Of course it looks that way, you insensitive assholes.”
Go in to any group therapy and if you listened to the majority of the people there without knowing the context of why they’re there, you’d just write them off as whatever symptoms they display. So it is when any outside group looks at discussions centered around TRP. It’s really telling that society is so fast to leap to the aid of women no matter how vitriolic their expressed feelings about something are, but men trying to recover their psychological health as a group are vilified because some of the feelings they’ve been internalizing are scary.
The irony is that in trying to shame the very community that’s helping those men, they’re actually trying to shut down the only way to keep those feelings from spinning in to something genuinely dangerous. To those people I would give the advice found in The Art of War: “To a surrounded enemy, you must leave a way of escape.”
January 16th, 2015 at 1:01 pm
@ Glenn
Have a good time. I find that I’ve been craving nature a lot more lately. Going out and clearing your head can help a lot.
I think even on a limbic level it sends a strong message to the brain when you can switch from an extremely negative state to letting it go, and enjoying something fun.
In NLP it’s thought of as a “good-bad collapse.” I’ve been slowly getting better about my rage, but yeah, I have a history of a lot of it. I got the cops called on me when I was 15 and was chasing my sister around the house with a knife, also another time when I threatened my dad with a knife and then threatened suicide. My family has conveniently repressed all those memories and tons of other ones and never took any responsibility for how they treated me growing up and to this day will get upset with me if I ever get mad or upset about anything: “What the hell is wrong with you?” and then claim that I’ve “traumatized” them by yelling.
Keeping in mind the couple incidents where I freaked out with the knife were after years and years and years of complete emotional neglect sprinkled with physical abuse, and the primary interaction between us being verbal abuse directed at me. Which I was punished for retaliating against. We never ate dinner together — as in never. No family connection whatsoever, and my extended family, only two cousins, an aunt and uncle, they all hate my family and my family hates them.
My sister ignored me completely about after I was 4 or 5 years old and with all the issues I had I had problems making friends, and here I am at 25 with a few hookups under my belt, but never had a girlfriend, never dated, never had any kind of solid family relationship or extended family members to hang out with or talk to. And on top of that having no one to validate anything I’ve been through, having to deal with the daily frustrations of knowing how hard I’m going to have to work to just have a baseline quality of life that most people in this world have, and take for granted —
— it is what it is. I need to go out and have some fun too. “Treating” myself usually means taking myself out alone to buy a burger somewhere and coming home and having some bourbon or black rum.
The shame program wants to keep us down. I’m not happy. So I need to do something about it. Dragging the unconscious out of the dark into the light helps.
I’ve been having mega withdrawals into my “dark place” lately. This is like the place I used to go when I was a kid locked in my room growing up, I would just sit there for hours fantasizing about murdering my parents, or the kids that were bullying me, etc.
I still use Faster EFT on a regular basis, and that’s my go-to technique for immediately dealing with this stuff. Not only bring it up, but fully associate to it — and then it dissolves easier.
The more I try to push the rage away the more it grows. If I really allow myself to feel all the rage, violent fantasies included, and just fully associate to it — THEN when I let it go, I feel a lot better.
I don’t know if it ever goes away fully, or even if it has to. Maybe it’s true that once you’re a pickle….that’s it.
Also similar to TRP. In Zen there’s a saying that a leaf that falls off a tree can never go back onto the tree again.
But it is what it is.
Being accepting of my rage is critical for me. As it points out in “Running on Empty.” Since emotionally neglected people essentially learned that feelings are bad, are to be ignored, or that they burden other people — that even FEELING RAGE in COMPLETE PRIVACY — is wrong. And you can go through a cycle of rage and shame all by yourself —
— like a dog barking at its own shadow. Pavlovian conditioning.
Anyway, it is important to keep TRP in mind. To me, the only “safe” people to talk about my emotions with are the people here on this blog. People who don’t understand TRP have no idea what I’m going through and are too conditioned to even be able to actually listen to me.
Making our way day by day. I appreciate having this space to vent too.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:09 pm
@ Sun Wukong
I was almost that guy so many times, and I had friends that felt the same way. Guys that not only had zero success with ANY girls, but were mercilessly bullied, shamed, etc., for no reason other than they were emotionally damaged, had no coping skills, and lived in broken homes. My own family was completely fucked up and I literally had nowhere to go and no one to turn to. I would isolate myself at school, get bullied by my neighbor and his friend when I’d go home, and when I’d go in the house one of my favorite things to do was go into a room under the staircase in complete darkness and just hide there for hours without making any sounds to leave my parents wondering where I went.
I can still remember this kid picking on me and shoving me in gym class. I always got made fun of because I wasn’t athletic. I remember being about one push away from beating his head in with a baseball bat. I was holding onto it tight and I was ready, if he pushed me one more time I was going to kill him. I wanted to kill the teacher too.
And I NEVER told anyone about that because I was so scared of what would happen to me. I’d been forced to go to mental hospitals before, because I sent e-mails to one person each time and they thought I was going to kill myself, so they called for a wellness check.
I didn’t want to kill anyone. Even when I chased my sister with the knife, and threatened my dad — if I REALLY wanted to do it, I would have. I was stronger and faster. It would’ve been easy. But what I really wanted is what I accomplished: scaring the shit out of them.
Having a feeling of power. And making them afraid of me. Making them PAY ATTENTION to me. Recognizing that I existed. It’s hard not to pay attention to someone when they’re holding a knife up to you, or against their own throat and are screaming at you.
But God’s honest truth is I never intended to hurt anyone. Even at a young age I knew that the fantasies were, more than anything, an outlet for me — the only outlet I had. If I really wanted to murder someone I would’ve done it a long time ago.
Same with suicide. I have suicidal fantasies REGULARLY. “Running on Empty” gets into that — actually has a chapter dedicated to suicide.
But yeah, I never told anyone for fear of what would happen to me. But all I wanted was for someone to understand the pain I was in.
I eventually learned to turn all the rage against myself and now I’m covered in scars from self-mutilation over the years. All that rage has to go somewhere. I turned it inwards. I started cutting again late last year and from time to time am still severely tempted to do it.
One more thing I’ll write in a new comment…..
January 16th, 2015 at 1:17 pm
@Badpainter, re: interesting questions
I don’t think it’s a lack of them knowing the answer; it’s a lack of them liking the answer.
Which is, of course: cuz we such nice guys an’ all.
January 16th, 2015 at 1:19 pm
re: the feminists reading this blog:
I find it funny that they CONVENIENTLY IGNORE plights of guys like me. The worst thing I did in my life was threaten my dad and sister with a knife, without hurting them, and without any actual real intention of hurting them, and that was after YEARS of complete emotional neglect, torment and abuse. Not to mention the time, for example, that my dad forcibly restrained me while I was screaming and crying, and literally ORDERED my sister to start hitting me as hard as she could while I screamed my head off begging her not to.
One of my friends got arrested for vandalism. He did some graffiti. It wasn’t even anything offensive. Just squiggles. He was pissed off and wanted to take it out. His childhood was similar to mine. What happens? His family is “ashamed” of him and punishes him severely and piles the shame on more and more —
— no inquiry about why he did it. No inquiry about how he was feeling. No consideration for why he felt like doing that. Just pile on the shame and disappointment.
And yeah….the feminists will ignore things like this. Any severe emotional damage men go through. Cling to their “equality” and “justice” while shaming men, a lot of whom are already damaged to near the breaking point.
How fucking heartless can you be? I could pump and dump a million women in a row and I don’t think even I would be able to compete with that level of complete narcissism and sociopathy.
But I’ve given up on getting compassion from women, or understanding, or anything. One key for me has been to know how to hold my cards close to my chest without repressing my emotions.
TRP doesn’t mean you can’t have emotions. Rollo mentioned this in another article, I can’t remember the title.
It doesn’t mean killing your humanity. But you have to learn how to get a handle on yourself and learn how to acknowledge your emotions and process them fully — and you don’t have to express them to do that.
Writing here is definitely a form of “expressing” — in a primarily male space.
But the women coming here doesn’t bother me. They’ll just ignore posts like mine and keep making their points.
Because feminism is an ideology. It’s an agenda.
TRP deals with real men living in the real world. It’s not an agenda. It’s just the truth. That is the main difference with feminism and TRP. Feminism is for the sake of feminism. TRP is for the sake of the men reading about it.
I would say feminism is for the sake of women, but we all know how well the “strong independent woman” thing works out for making women happy in the long term. Because all the masculine, traditional, truly secure men are clambering for nagging bitches whose primary goal in life is twofold:
1) busting other people’s balls
2) wishing she had a pair of her own balls (and probably a dick to go with it)
Yeah…attractive, huh. No thanks. On the plus side, the “strong independent women” make super slutty girls look more attractive. Put two of them next to each other in a booth, and the “strong independent woman who don’t need no man” ain’t lookin’ too good…..
January 16th, 2015 at 1:48 pm
@ Sun Wukong – Shame is not an asset when dealing with shit tests.
I too also wonder at what point women will realize that they are painting men into a corner – a superior being physically. I think many women are so detached from reality that they have no fear of men. This is a huge miscalculation on their behalf and one that they will rue one day. They are really going crazy now, I saw a vid of a radfem who confronted some protesters she didn’t like on the street and she shoved her way into one of the guys and was put on her ass. Another dumb cunt called the cops but the whole thing was caught on video so the radfem was arrested for assault – as she should have been. She of course was screaming, but the best part is that all the men were not sucked in and the cops were like whatever, you’re going to jail honey. Great stuff. The look on her face when she was being shoved to the ground roughly was priceless, like she suddenly realized she was at a severe disadvantage and this surprised her. Fear. For a moment, before the hamster started spinning again. Like I sad, priceless.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:02 pm
Re: on women Just Getting It.
I think we’re all in agreement on what women mean when they say a man ought to Just Get It to be more attractive. Women mean that a man ought to be able to ignore all of his upbringing and social conditioning and what women say and Just Act Dominant towards women. Ok, so, we Get It Now.
But is there a parallel that women should Just Get despite being told otherwise? Although women should definitely Just Stifle It and Just Service Me, it’s not like any significant percentage of men or society has ever pretended anything else was attractive. Nobody seriously believes that being more bitchy is what women ought to Just Get.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:10 pm
Concept for the day. As an effective social conflict stratagem, it is not enough for just one woman to be picky/unreproductive. She has to convince all other women to follow her same strategy, or else they will definitely out-reproduce her. It’s not enough, for example, for 10% of women to use birth control. What starts out being promoted as a choice becomes effectively mandatory “Three kids?!? What are you, some kind of super-fertile freakazoid?”
Women do not have any other effective female-centered option that does not involve sticking with the herd or forcing the whole herd to change. Hence, male-centered change will necessarily involve individual men cutting individual women out of the herd.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:10 pm
re: the feminists reading this blog
I rarely get “feminist” input here from self-identifying feminists. With the exception of maybe Stingray, most women who post on RM feel the need to ‘correct’ me, but they never come in with feminist flags flying.
Even Alpha Female and LivingTree would rather identify with equalism and the associative ideology because the term “feminist” has become so caustic.
Even anti-feminist and “red pill” women still subscribe to the core belief set of feminism, they just don’t like the branding.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:25 pm
Also to clarify:
The temptation with learning about what’s happened to us, in this case, learning about the FI and the world we live in — is to use it as an excuse to be angry.
End goal is always to use the negative emotions to fuel, if anything, positive behaviors. Perfect example: weightlifting.
I used to buy into the myth about “body equality” and how people’s personalities should be cherished over their physical looks. I was a perfect little white knight. And 140 lbs soaking wet at 5’11”. At my worst I was 118 lbs.
When I hooked up with a 280 lb girl and that was the only action I’d ever had in my life, and I realized I didn’t want to be in a relationship with a morbidly obese girl, it forced me to reconsider my position. As much as I wanted to be in love with her, as much as I wanted to prioritize her personality over everything else, it just wasn’t happening. I couldn’t make it happen. IOW, desire can’t be negotiated. Even if the person WANTS to desire the other person — if it isn’t there, it isn’t there.
Now some years later I am just shy of 200 lbs and a lot of people, especially people at work who knew me from years ago, comment about how I look. “Have you been working out?” “You’ve really filled out a lot.” This other lady I work with actually said “I remember when you just started here. You’ve really grown. You look like a real man now.”
All the shame and pain and everything else: I let that motivate my workouts. Instead of giving in to, as Glenn put it, sitting in a pile of my own shit in a rage — which is very tempting to do, as I’ve done it most of my life — I find it helps TREMENDOUSLY to just lift weights.
Get it out of my system. I can allow the frustration to be there, acknowledge it, but then make the conscious choice to respond to the frustration by improving myself. I will take responsibility for myself and build my body up instead of tearing it down or letting it rot.
No matter how pissed off I am or who I’m having a problem with, working out is just a part of my day like eating and sleeping. Very good for mental and emotional stability, and that’s not even regarding the very real physical benefits weightlifting has on both of those things, and more.
I’m of the opinion these days that every man should be lifting weights. Even forget about girls in relation to it. If you’re pissed off about women and how fucked everything is, take it out by building your body up and making yourself strong inside and out. Another great part of your own foundation: things in your life that will remain constant regardless of who is or isn’t in your life.
Strength is one of the most obvious differences between men and women. Testosterone doesn’t just only make us have a crazy high sex drive. Know what else it does? Builds crazy muscle and makes you crazy strong in comparison.
There’s a reason that for a man and woman of the same weight, there are different strength standards.
For a man of my weight, a 235 lb overhead press would be considered “Elite.” For a woman the same weight as me, a 150 lb overhead press would be considered “Elite.”
And 505 lbs for a squat, vs 290 lbs. etc.
Complementarity of the sexes — as a man, you want to be strong. Not to mention keeping a log of the weights you’ve lifted and having the great feeling of looking back and seeing how far you’ve come.
I will say it’s nice that the vast majority of guys are out of shape and nowhere near their potential, or even have never worked out a day in their life. Makes me look all the better by comparison. It even makes me feel better about putting on more muscle and looking even better because then the gap is widening even more. If you even put on a tiny bit of muscle and look a little more filled out than the average guy, the difference in this culture is already close to being exponential.
I also have found that playfully picking girls up and swinging them around can be a good move. Playfully demonstrating strength.
Pressing a 135lb barbell over your head is easy. That’s a good goal to start with – standard 7′ olympic bar (45 lbs) with a 45 lb plate on each side. If you can do that you can press a majority of girls over your head.
Now with the girls I’ve been with, I don’t know if Arnold himself could’ve pressed that much over his head. Lol.
Anyway, when I picked this one girl up (literally), I wondered why it never occurred to me before. As far as “kino” goes, your hands have a perfect excuse to be in full contact with her ass. Or if you’re just picking her up playfully and swinging around with you, you wrap your arms tight around her waist and your hands are clasped firmly right under her butt. And then up we go. Get a good grip, give a nice little grope and when they’re up in the air listen to the “OOOHS” and “AHHHHS”.
“OH WOW UR SO STRONG U R LIEK SUPARMAN”
lmao
Seriously though. I only have had a chance to try the ‘playful demonstration of strength’ thing a few times. But it worked beautifully. A little game, just having fun, but demonstrating that your physical strength completely dwarfs hers sends a very strong message. I can still remember the look on that girl’s face while she was up in the air. Smiling ear to ear and this little twinkle in her eye.
I was like a superhero. If I wasn’t such a fuckup at the time I probably could’ve fucked her. Oh well. Live and learn.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:27 pm
@Glenn
I think many women are so detached from reality that they have no fear of men. This is a huge miscalculation on their behalf and one that they will rue one day.
I wouldn’t say they have no fear of them, but they want to have no fear of them. Hence tripe like YMY in an attempt to make it so women get to walk around with a false sense of security. As was mentioned when YMY was put in to place though, that sense of security will lead women who do have no fear of men as a result to take extremely stupid chances. Laws do not keep you safe; they punish criminals. Understanding what’s dangerous and what isn’t keeps you safe.
This is why men know it’s a bad idea to go around provoking other men. If we do it and the guy pummels us, yes the law is on our side and IF he is caught he will be punished. But that doesn’t mean it’s not dangerous to provoke men. Men understand this. For some reason though women want to believe they can create a world where this is no longer true. Where you can provoke and provoke and provoke and nothing ever happens to you. How incredibly dangerous is it to believe that world is possible? Worse yet, how terrible is the treatment younger men endure while women are trying to create that world? For me it involved being beaten to the point of bleeding, bruises, and scratches but being expected to not defend myself because I might hurt a woman. You know, my single mother.
The ones that don’t fear men already just haven’t faced what us men have faced. We know how dangerous it is to provoke someone physically stronger than us. That’s the nature of a man’s life. Women, on the other hand, are not routinely subjected to that lesson as a social convention. If that ever changes (and it will if they keep backing men in to a corner with no escape), you are correct. It will go very badly for them. I would rather prevent that. Not because they’re women, but because I would rather no human being (regardless of sex) face violence. It is an awful, ugly thing.
The look on her face when she was being shoved to the ground roughly was priceless, like she suddenly realized she was at a severe disadvantage and this surprised her. Fear. For a moment, before the hamster started spinning again.
Welcome to true equal rights, honey. We have every right to avoid being assaulted that you do. Funny thing about men though: somebody arrests us for shoving a dude, we’re not surprised. We knew the consequences of escalation.
So much denial of the reality of conflict in women. This is why men prefer feminine women without bloodthirst. Their mouth doesn’t write checks their ass can’t cash.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:30 pm
@ Rollo
re: feminists
Thanks for correcting me and clarifying; that’s an important point.
I don’t know if there’s a “name” to call them, e.g. “feminists,” or “equalists”, to summarize what they’re representing.
Maybe just “women”? Funny…did I hear a blip go off on someone’s “Politically Correct” radar somewhere?
Heh.
January 16th, 2015 at 2:35 pm
@Softek
Pressing a 135lb barbell over your head is easy. That’s a good goal to start with – standard 7′ olympic bar (45 lbs) with a 45 lb plate on each side. If you can do that you can press a majority of girls over your head.
Around here at 135lbs you might be able to lift the majority of chicks under 5’0″. Not any taller though.
Goddamn I’m sick of the south. Can’t wait to move.