There are times I’m typing away on a particular topic and I get scooped by my own comentariat.
Quote from BadPainter (emphasis mine):
George – “She prefers a dual pluralistic feminine sexuality where she can express and enjoy greater sexual freedom and an artificial feeling of control and dominance.”
Because giving herself sexually to a man who is a provider either makes her a whore (trading sex for material goods), or a slave (giving up power to submit to a dominant man). By chasing Alpha Fux she can submit in that moment and maintain the illusion of independence. By accepting commitment from Beta Bux she gets the very highest price for her sex and can aintain the illusion that’s she is not a whore. Combining the two, Alpha Fux and Beta Bux means accepting a submissive position to a man who provides with an expectation of sex.
This is antithetical to entire feminist paradigm of equality with, and independence from, men. To achieve this ultimate feminist goal women achieve equality, and equality of outcome by political policy, and they achieve independence by becoming lesbians.
George’s response:
Well put, agreed. I wonder how many women really are successful with this plural hypergamy and how many really aren’t. We are seeing many media examples of this and examples of young girls in traditionally masculine leadership fantasy roles (hunger games, etc.). However, I personally know very few real females who are successful with “open hypergamy” and none who characterize real leadership traits. The ones attempting to practice this plural hypergamy expose themselves as the untrustworthy sluts they are, divorced, etc and no man worth a shit wants anything to do with them. They end up extremely insecure bitter hags in short order.
Again BadPainter:
George – “They end up extremely insecure bitter hags in short order.”
This seems to be the case amongst all women who hold to the feminist notion of equalitarian relationships. And I think generates similar results amongst women who don’t actively subscribe to feminism but willingly accept the benefits of feminism. And I think it’s the career track reality that does it.
A woman working outside the home must submit to the hierarchy of the work place. The workplace is the Alpha of her existance because it can and will dispose of her as soon as she is unwanted/not needed. The workplace is dread writ large. When she goes home she can’t as easily submit to her beta husband because she knows he can’t and won’t dispose of her so easily, especially if there are children involved. This is a source of disrespect, she gets away with it because she can. She resists because she has been playing that submision game all day and refuses to simply give in at home.
Likewise a man having to walk the tightrope of workplace politics being both a good follower and showing initiative, and leadership irrespective of rank and position, has little desire to fight those same battles at home. So he gives in out of exhaustion what he wants is a moments peace where his way is the only way because he’s the king of his own castle at least in his own mind.
Both man and woman are ultimately played against each other in this situation. The woman is more resistant to submit, the man more reluctant to dominate because he now has to be more dominant than the woman’s work place without the benefit hard dread sans consequences. In the past the practiced amount of domestic dominance required would be reduced or mitigated by the economic reality of the woman’s dependence on the man for her material standard of living. Not so today when divorce law favors the woman, and domestic violence laws, and standards for defining abuse only apply to men. Today those influences plus the nuttiness of feminism makes a challenging situation worse as the the gender roles are now competitive instead of complimentary and collaborative
I realize I may raise a few hackles with today’s post. And while I wont apologize for what I’m going to propose here, just know that my intent isn’t to offend or injure, but rather to strip away a degree of what I think is a very pleasant, but sugar coated fiction.
Whenever I read or hear a man consistently refer to his wife as his “bride” it alerts me to his Blue Pill state of mind as well as his conditioning. This is a relatively new colloquialism for the Christian set (“christianese”). Generally I hear and read this from Evangelical Christian men because their context (or domain) is one of a self-enforced reverence for their wives. Usually it’s meant to be a not-so-veiled attempt at pedestalizing their wives in casual conversation with people they think will appreciate it (and hopefully earn cookie points with the wife), but what it reveals in my Red Pill lens is a guy who believes his “voluntary” deference to her makes him more respectable to her.
Before you think I’m unfairly highlighting “Christian Beta Game” there is a similar, but more pervasive dynamic in the married-man set of the manosphere. Whenever I read a man (I’ve never heard a guy verbalize this) refer to his wife as the “First Mate” or “First Officer” it similarly sets off the same sensitivity I get with the “brides” men – and for much of the same reasons.
Any man with a cursory experience in the manosphere recognizes this buzz-term from Athol Kay’s Married Man Sex Life. The principle of the term stems from the idea that a husband needs to be the ‘captain’ of his marriage, his family and the director and decision maker of where that unit will go, what their goals are, etc. On the face of it, this male headship positioning stresses what men (and wives) interpret as an old-order conventional complementarity between the sexes.
A strong male leadership role is very appealing to both men and women, and I’ll be the first to cosign the need for a man’s ‘captaincy’ as it were in his marriage and his life in general. This ‘Manning Up’ into a headship of his relationship hits the right buttons for a man predisposed to Beta complacency (not to mention it gives him a faint hope for resolving a sexless marriage), but also for women who are encouraged by the ‘new’ Alpha-ish husband they hope will take the lead (usually from her) and potentially generate the tingles he’s never quite been able to do for her.
Unfortunately, this push for ‘captaincy’ is self-defeated by the equalist-mindset compromise of allaying a woman’s inherent insecurities by giving her assurances that she will be the “first mate” in this new arrangement. Even in a position of instated headship (relinquished or otherwise), men predisposed to an egalitarian equalism still want to ‘play fair’ and offer an appeasement for being allowed to be the head of the home.
Her voice will be heard, her input will be considered, because he just “loves her that much”; this is the self-satisfying rationale for being allowed to direct the course of his marriage and family. The problems inherent in this are rooted in the compromise of his assuming all accountability for the failures of that arrangement while still granting her his magnanimous assurances that he’ll always have her best interests in mind.
Father Knows Best
I overheard a young woman explain what amounted to open Hypergamy to a Beta kid I know over the holiday. At one point she said, “It’s women’s job to get away with everything they can in life.”
Then the kid asks, “So what is men’s job to do in life?”, “Not to let ’em” was her reply.
I’ve always stressed that the Frame in which you begin a relationship will set the overall tone of that relationship. That’s not to say the predominant Frame can’t be altered (indeed many men fall victim to their own Beta backsliding in marriage), but that tone, that predominant directorship of who’s Frame will set the course for where it goes and how it develops is set before you sign on to monogamy in its various forms. It is either your reality into which a woman must enter, or hers that you must enter. Their may be compromises, but these will be colored and characterized by whose Frame is the dominant one in the relationship.
Know this now, your wife, your LTR girlfriend, doesn’t want to be your “First Mate”.
While you may think you’re flattering her with your self-styled magnanimity, this compromise only reflects your Blue Pill equalist hope that she will genuinely appreciate the sacrifices you make in considering her Frame. The dominant Frame (hopefully yours) is what matters. While a wife’s input may present you with insight you may have overlooked, she must ultimately acquiesce to your Frame’s primacy.
When you consider her a co-equal actor in what you believe is a mutual Frame (or what you’ve convinced yourself is really your Frame to maintain that relationship) you will own your mistakes and failures, but she will share in, and at times take an equal credit for, your successes.
There’s a reason that the cliché is “Behind every great man is a woman” and not the other way around. Any man claiming a supportive responsibility for a woman’s success – or even being graciously acknowledged by her for it – is perceived as a coattail rider. When it comes to a comparison between Sensitive New Age Guy® and Strong Independent Woman®, a woman is always a support system for a man’s success. Men’s genuine support is emasculating because ‘support’ is a feminine role in either an egalitarian or a complementarian relationship.
Down with the Ship
While it may be comforting for a woman to believe her opinion is valued, or that what passes for her newfound submission to his direction is guaranteed by his considerateness, very few ‘first mates’ are willing to go down with the ship once it starts taking on enough water. The ‘first mate’ notion is really a win-win situation for women who are already virtually guaranteed of long term support whether her ‘captain’ sinks the ship or not. With so many reassurances of social, emotional and financial support women can always reserve the right to jump ship should her husband’s fates and fortunes not live up to his headship.
When she goes home she can’t as easily submit to her beta husband because she knows he can’t and won’t dispose of her so easily, especially if there are children involved. This is a source of disrespect, she gets away with it because she can. She resists because she has been playing that submision game all day and refuses to simply give in at home.
In other words, the ‘captain’ is really on his own regardless of his ‘first mate’s’ input.
She’s absolved of his failures and shares in his successes – which are made all the better when he convinces himself that the directives of her Frame are really his own. Any consideration for real mutual input will always be mitigated by this foreknowledge of a relatively ensured support should he not live up to the performance demanded of a ‘captain’.
Forgetthesky from last week’s comment thread:
I think George and Badpainter bring forward an interesting hypothesis above: the idea that women are pursuing an AF/BB strategy so relentlessly not only because a man to exemplify both sides are so rare (though they are unusual), but because women would generally avoid such a man – because she would have no power over him, he would command all spheres. And modern women fear submission greatly, they’ve been trained to. And they’ve often enough never experienced it positively, with so many absent and beta father’s around.
A Man needs to command all spheres to genuinely be the ‘captain’, and ultimately this disqualifies any validity of his woman’s considered influence on him.
The idea of a needed balance of including a wife or LTR in a man’s decision making process is not just the result of an equalitarian mindset, it also serves the Feminine Imperative. While equalism is the root belief, the notion of a mutual (though nominally lesser) inclusiveness works on much the same level as Choreplay. If a man “plays more fairly and evenly” the expected reciprocation should be a reward of more of a woman’s love, respect and pussy. In fact this is the sell for both equalist Purple Pill inclusivity and doing a feminine defined set of equalized chores.
The problem then becomes one of the observer effect when a woman is constantly aware of the inclusivity, captain-first mate Game that she and her husband are both overtly playing. Observing the process will change it, so any assuming of ‘captaincy’ and any presumption of a roleplaying legitimacy on his part become suspect of both he and his wife’s genuineness. Truly submissive women want a decisive, unapologetic man with masculine determination and ambition for his life, who doesn’t need to be told he needs to be so. He ‘Just Gets It‘, and so much so that his Frame is the dominant one from the outset of the relationship without any back and forth about captains or first mates. She enters his reality, or she doesn’t associate with him.
Women don’t want to be overtly reminded that they’re “being included”. This is pandering to women who already know they have the blameless option of abandoning or jumping the ship. This overtness then inevitably script-flips to male ridicule.
“I’m the king of the castle. My wife told me I could be” is how the joke that men tell themselves goes, but the self-observation is really one of abdication to a woman’s Frame while he lamely grasps at an authority he doesn’t believe he’s ever earned.
No one laughs at his joke.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:40 pm
Lately, I’ve taken to introducing Mrs. Gamer as “the married woman I’ve been seeing for several years.”
December 31st, 2014 at 12:41 pm
Whether or not she believed me is another matter entirely, I’m sure somewhere deep down she thinks she can change me.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:42 pm
Aha! The explanation is found in yet another empirically-testable hypothesis: the hysteresis of love. Men who have pair-bonded sufficiently to stick around for a couple of years (or so) will require a lot more anti-mating behavior to drive them off.
The significant fact that he will be more likely to mate with another woman (preselection *amplified* by circumstances) may just be a side effect, illustrating just how important the serial part of serial monogamy is evolutionarily. I don’t think “sexy step-sons” can be a good model.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:42 pm
Shameless self-promotion: Check out my latest relationship post: “STD testing before sex”.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:44 pm
Badpainter
December 31st, 2014 at 12:30 pm
Not bad odds. Where do I sign up? LOL.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:48 pm
M. Simon – “You have to have game to close the deal”
What you have described sounds like a never ending escrow. The deal never closes completely.
Your tolerance for feminine bullshit is obviously much, much greater than mine. Since the Bullshit never stops I’d prefer fresh, new, and differently packaged bullshit every so often instead of the same old shit for as long as the shitter wants to shit on me.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:48 pm
@ jf12
The explanation is found in yet another empirically-testable hypothesis: the hysteresis of love. Men who have pair-bonded sufficiently to stick around for a couple of years (or so) will require a lot more anti-mating behavior to drive them off.
This is similar to the Stockholm Effect. I call it “The Amsterdam Effect”. It has to do with marriage as practiced by most women being most similar to prostitution.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:50 pm
@ctt2
“I just can’t wrap my head around the mess of conflicting thoughts and feelings that go on in a woman’s head.”
You don’t need to. That’s why she is a woman and your a man, you just need to be the rock in her life that doesn’t sway while she is going through a storm of emotions around you. You have to stay detached.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:55 pm
@ctt2 Bullshit. Throw her ass out and find a roommate. The reason she reverts back to form is because she knows you’ll take it.
If you absolutely can’t do that because she’s on the deed and mortgage (the only valid reason), tell her the relationship is over and that you will treat her like a roommate from now on. If she makes a pain in the ass of herself, invite all your male friends over and behave badly. Get drunk, make a lot of noise and simply make it miserable for her to be around nonstop. Come and go as you please, and turn “your half” of the house into a mancave. Stop cleaning, stop doing chores, do everything in your power to make her fucking miserable so she does leave.
If you are not willing to fight for yourself, nobody else will. And I think you miss the most important part of all. If she doesn’t react to dread, she’s not that into you. Why are you making a relationship with a woman who isn’t that into you? My guess is that you are convenient for her now and that she’s actually deeply dissatisfied with you and the relationship but it’s hard for her to exit too, so she’s taking it out on you.. There may be no fix to that. In either event, ending it, and putting her last in your life is the only way you could ever restore any balance..
If she insists as continuing on as your roommate, you might even just bring home one of those young hotties and fuck her in your bedroom while she’s home…Now that’s dread. And oh yeah, if she throws a fit, just laugh. If she gets violent, call the cops on her. If she’s making a disturbance, call the cops. As well, you had better start filming these interactions with her because if she’s as fucked in the head as you say, she could easily make a claim of domestic violence against you and have you removed from your own house. Happened to a friend of mine in NYC. All the psycho grifter that he got tangled up with had to do was say domestic violence, and voila, she got an order of protection and he had to leave the apt. She had only been staying there for 30 days and didn’t pay a dime. Didn’t matter. Be very careful.
The whole sob story about how she’s just like her mother is designed to get you to accept this behavior from her. She’s not a puppet on her mother’s string – she has choice. And like you said, she’s adopted this new persona and way of dealing with you after her environment changed. I mean, if she can’t help being a nasty cunt because of her mother, why was she so nice when she was 21?
You have so throroughly bought into her imperatives, her narrative and her framing that you can’t see it.
Here’s my shorthand for how I deal with women and all of life now. I’m a selfish prick. I take care of me first and last. Anyone who comes along for the ride is welcome to do so as long as they add to my happiness or benefit. If they slow me down or make me unhappy, they are gone. Whatever I have to do, they go. My happiness and dignity and self-respect are too important to me to put up with what you are putting up with.
Let me put it this way. How much more of her crap are you going to take? It seems to me that you are prepared to take a lot more of it and at this point, you are asking for it.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:56 pm
That post should have read: Nuclear Dread Fallout: “STD testing before sex”.
December 31st, 2014 at 12:58 pm
M Simon,
Thanks, my biggest regret in life is listening to my family and getting out instead of going for 20. Been trying to reenlist through the reserve for two years now but they just aren’t opening quotas for prior service.
I know her well enough, and have seen from her reactions to the way other girls act around me, to be pretty confident that moving beyond having options to actually exercising those options would blow things up. Her leaving wouldn’t be the problem, it is the vindictive/destructive behavior that I think would happen on her way out that concerns me.
December 31st, 2014 at 1:04 pm
@ctt2
Hypergamy only knows that it wants, that’s all it knows. Any and all behaviors that could potentially satisfy want are therefore allowed. Any and all behaviors that may require delayed gratification for success are discouraged and must be learned through experience if at all.
But, Hypergamy is just the motherboard/bios of the system. The base operating system software package also includes whatever her parents gave to her. Sounds your SO’s mom gave her an example of a dominant female to learn from, which means she’s never experienced accepting a male frame. She probably doesn’t realize in the slightest how the example her mother gave her is actually in conflict with her goals. You have a girl there who is trying to maximize her reproductive/material-wealth/safety potentials, and trying to do so by establishing her own frame for you to live in.
So yeah, you’ve got an especially scrambled rubiks cube on your hands.
December 31st, 2014 at 1:17 pm
@jf12
“Aha! The explanation is found in yet another empirically-testable hypothesis: the hysteresis of love. Men who have pair-bonded sufficiently to stick around for a couple of years (or so) will require a lot more anti-mating behavior to drive them off.”
The above makes sense but how does this relate to shit testing? I see a relationship between shit testing and hypergamy (leading to it). What really is anti mating and why is it triggered? Comes back to the man showing weakness and the female testing to see if he is still strong enough or turned weak and now needs a stronger mate.
December 31st, 2014 at 1:43 pm
Glenn,
She is on the lease, so simply throwing her ass out is not an option. Otherwise, I already do what you suggest short of bringing home other girls. I come and go as I please, I have hobbies that she doesn’t approve of and continue with them despite her objections. She has a much higher tolerance than I do for living in squalor so I do end up cleaning more than I should but I am not going to trip over shit and step in cat puke in my own damn house trying to make a point that would be lost on her.
I understand what you’re saying, but ultimately I would do more harm to myself by leaving than by dealing with the shit right now. I have two years of school left to finish my degree and get back on a viable career path, putting myself in a financial hole that would likely delay my goal isn’t in my best interest. Pushing things to the point of domestic disturbance and false allegations definitely is not in my interest. I am in the south where the FI reigns supreme and as I’m sure you know veterans are (quietly) regarded as unstable, violent, broken people just waiting to blow up. Any police involvement is going to work against me regardless of evidence. My goal right now is not to salvage the relationship, just to get myself into a position where I have good options again and the least costly way to do that is to embrace the suck and deal with it until I am done with school.
December 31st, 2014 at 1:48 pm
Ugh,…here me now, believe me later…
http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/06/shacking-up/
December 31st, 2014 at 1:53 pm
Absolutely Rollo, that wisdom came too late for me but I will never make the same mistake again.
December 31st, 2014 at 1:59 pm
Not a cut on you ctt2, just a warning for others.
December 31st, 2014 at 2:06 pm
I didn’t take it as a cut, no worries. I’ve been reading for about three years now and finally got around to registering and sharing so that others can see a real world example of the principles you write about. My situation came about exactly as you describe, she needed a roommate, I mistakenly thought I could save some money on living expenses and once she got comfortable everything changed for the worse.
December 31st, 2014 at 2:16 pm
Badpainter
December 31st, 2014 at 12:48 pm
Well yeah. OTOH I have children. And I have a LOT of determination. I have been training her for 40 years to be “naturally” (LOL) submissive. It is just starting to catch. I just gave her tingles with “I want you to bring me a beautiful young woman with big tits. You can play with her too. Then you can win me back by wanting me more than she does.”
We have discussed RP many times. She admits she wouldn’t be interested in a man that other women didn’t want.
I have been working for a long time to make her aware of her nature and learn to become comfortable with it. Lots of things work against that. The FI. Religion. Laws.
None the less my first GF taught me game. So I do think at least some women can be self aware. I’m trying that on the one I live with. With some success.
Yesterday she reverted for a few minutes. I got the “you’re so immoral” lecture. I shut that down with “You are happier when you are submissive, aren’t you?” “Yes.” End of reversion.
December 31st, 2014 at 2:23 pm
@ctt2 – What I’m really getting from you is that you haven’t digested the Red Pill yet, which is okay – we have all been there. And it’s an ongoing process. I guess the only advice I have then is to keep talking about it here and to keep diving into the Red Pill world. I think that at a certain point you will look at the situation and realize that it’s ridiculous for you tolerate the BS you and will do something about it. Until then, keep choking down the Red Pill, it’s quite bitter.
December 31st, 2014 at 2:26 pm
embrace the suck
LOL. I know that place.
December 31st, 2014 at 2:46 pm
Glenn,
You may be right. In the time I have been reading RM you have stood out as one of my favorite commenters and I do appreciate you taking the time to advise me here. I’m not so arrogant as to think I have it all figured out, there is always room to learn and grow but one thing I can say for sure is that my decision making is finally centered around my own interests and long-term success. If I do come to find a faster and better path out of my current situation I will be happy to eat crow.
December 31st, 2014 at 3:21 pm
@ctt2 – My one fan, lol. And like you said you are making real progress spinning plates and you know your situation is fucked. Only you can make the right decisions, so good luck. And me? I’m a fucking maniac and more than a couple of times wished I was more thoughtful about moves like you are trying to make. So, good luck! And no need for “crow eating” – I just want you to be happy and powerful in your life. I’ve been stuck with a cunt who’s treating my awfully and it sucks. It also sucks to not have your home be a place of respite and calm. I’m sure you will figure out a good way forward. In the meantime, text game one of those hotties, see one of them wants to start the New Year off with a bang…
December 31st, 2014 at 4:34 pm
re: “What really is anti mating and why is it triggered?”
Maybe it simply promotes women’s scheme of serial hypergamy at the expense of men’s scheme of polygyny. It’s hard to think about.
December 31st, 2014 at 6:03 pm
@jf12
“Maybe it simply promotes women’s scheme of serial hypergamy at the expense of men’s scheme of polygyny. It’s hard to think about.”
Yea it is, but in the end whatever their reason is I personally done really care to a certain extent, I know what I need to do as a man to always be above them and several steps ahead.
December 31st, 2014 at 6:10 pm
Well I’m about to head out for NYE and smash some plates :) Happy NYE everyone! Will leave you with this great line from a song:
“All my bitches love me and I love all my bitches,
But it’s like as soon as I cum, I come to my senses” – Lil Wayne
December 31st, 2014 at 6:32 pm
An 8 year old lost in the wilderness will out live a SEAL? catholic’s are the true faith? A magic oil will cure cancer?
Next stop, the fucking twlight zone?
December 31st, 2014 at 6:47 pm
re: antimating behaviors.
Never having been alpha, I have complained too many times that women don’t shit-test alphas as much as betas, while self-professed alphas laugh and say they get shit-tested by their women all the time. I will suspend disbelief, and assume the alphas are correct. In what way would it evolutionarily profit a woman to *partially* drive her alpha male into the arms of another woman via antimating behaviors, i.e. for *her* to promote his polygyny?
1) She doesn’t get burdened by bearing too many children from having to supply all the sex. A handful of children, maybe, are enough to for her to successfully reproduce, and the probability of dying in childbirth increases a lot for more children.
2) I pooh-pooh my own “sexy stepsons” theory, but, maybe.
3) There is indeed strength in numbers. Half siblings, I think, tend to have as much sibling cooperation/rivalry as full siblings. Any data? Is this another PhD thesis? A unifiedish tribe may be better at achieving grandkids than multiple disparate families.
December 31st, 2014 at 6:58 pm
Why wouldn’t women shit test their alphas? Hypergamy doesn’t stop just because she landed one, it is the perpetual search for something even better.
December 31st, 2014 at 7:13 pm
@ Rollo
E.M.K.’s marketeering is little more than Purple Pill pablum
Ah….. I hadn’t heard of Evan Mark Katz. I just looked at his site and I didn’t know women needed dating coaches! If a women needs a dating coach she…
A) Is mildly retarded
B) can’t stop talking
C) is heinous
D) All of the above
Basically stop being stupid, jabbering and lose some weight. Problem solved. Done.
December 31st, 2014 at 8:11 pm
Brilliant post!!! Great way to start 2015!!
By the Rollo, just watched this recent animation called ‘The Book of Life’, don’t know if you or other brothers in the manosphere have watched it but…fuck me!! reeking of FI indoctrination – Open hypergamy, equalism, male apologetics, purple-pill centrism, defining manhood through FI, etc – absolutely reeking of it.
With Red pill lens now fully adopted, I will make sure I filter things my future children will watch.
December 31st, 2014 at 8:45 pm
@ Glenn
“Or better said, any time she didn’t just give me all the love and sex I thought i deserved because I married her, I acted like she broke a promise she made to me..”
Same here. I ruined my marriage with my equalist mindset. A few years after the divorce I said to my ex “If I had dominated you physically when we were married, we would probably still be married.” She agreed. Actually, I might have just had to pin her to the floor a couple of times near the beginning to make a point. But I didn’t because I wasn’t mentally dominant. I thought that wanting to be dominant was bad, especially towards a woman.
“Even more deeply, I realized a fundamental truth about my own emotions and view of women. My Mom died when I was 11, and she had been my protector from my terroristic and horribly abusive Dad.”
That’s interesting. With me it was my mother who was abusive and my father who was good. Ironically, the result was the same: I spent the rest of my life looking for a woman who would give me the love and acceptance I felt lacking from my mother. It didn’t work.
What do the two failures have in common? Belief that blue pill behavior would get me what I wanted. Now I know that I will probably never get what I wanted because of feminine nature. But accepting that and getting some red pill attitude and behavior going seems to at least get me some things I like in relationship with women while making it less likely that I will feel burned by those relationships. I’m making progress. Thank you Rollo and all the wise commenters here.
December 31st, 2014 at 9:14 pm
ctt2,
“The strangest part is that while exhibiting bad behavior her shit tests have started to center around marriage.”
It would be a good idea for you to get accurate information, preferably from a lawyer, about what actions and durations constitute entry into official marriage, in your jurisdiction, before you take any more seemingly innocuous actions, your status changes in some relevant way, or deadlines pass.
And don’t mention this to her, since …
In some places, it takes little more than having something jointly, like a bank account, or a lease, and presenting yourselves as husband and wife (while you are among people who can identify you, she winks so that only you can see and then says “and you all know my husband ctt2″, and you don’t scream “fuck no” and knock tables over as you run away).
December 31st, 2014 at 9:14 pm
I’m looking forward to when scientists invent the artificial womb and sex robots. Men won’t have to deal with female idiocy and irrationality anymore:
“Most women don’t dream of dating nice guys.
… 40% of women’s “fantasy TV boyfriends” are cold blooded murderers!
21% are vampires…
And only 14% are nice guys!”
(female preferences in a boo: 86% bad boys vs. 14% nice guys).
http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/women-dont-dream-dating-nice-guys/
December 31st, 2014 at 9:35 pm
Softek
December 30th, 2014 at 11:16 am
“I get pissed because I’m not getting laid,”
“This is the same girl I was talking about sex with, we even started trading some stories, she would be really open about telling me how turned on she was, how horny she was, etc., “I need dick so bad right now,” etc.”
So, did you offer her yours? I noticed excuses why you ‘wouldn’t’. Is the real issue fear of women on your part?
Do you know why men are afraid of women? Because men’s first experience with women is with their mothers and mommies can be pretty scary creatures. It can be quite difficult to get over that.
December 31st, 2014 at 10:31 pm
Ok, going back to that outburst above to some Islamic(?) newbie. Emote much? Heh – someone lost the reins on their Amused Mastery (r)(c)(tm)(sm)(&tc).
Note to all – that bullying does not speak for me. I hope we continue to hear from a broader and broader range of the men on this planet on the subject of managing the female half of our species. Regardless of whatever personal trigger about Islam someone needs to learn to manage better, I’m pretty sure we all want to see more men unplugged and shutting down unfamiliar perspectives will get in the way of that. Close minded fundamentalism is the larger problem, regardless of any current virulence that alleges to be rooted in a particular cultural/religious memeset.
As far as the topic at hand (first mate &tc) – I get the point about the frame being key. I think the label/vocab is secondary and context specific. I notice that when my frame is solid, I can call a woman many nicknames/roles and there is no question about who is in charge. But when my frame slips, the same words lack power. But nonetheless – words do have power and routine use of some vocab that clearly positions the female as subordinate seems like it would be of ongoing value.
Enjoy the New Year everyone.
December 31st, 2014 at 10:43 pm
sfcton
December 31st, 2014 at 6:32 pm
Yes. A magic oil will cure cancer. You might want to give some study to the body’s endocannabinoid system, Which regulates the immune system among other things.
The National Cancer Institute has this:
http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4
December 31st, 2014 at 10:50 pm
ctt2
December 31st, 2014 at 6:58 pm
Why wouldn’t women shit test their alphas? Hypergamy doesn’t stop just because she landed one, it is the perpetual search for something even better.
Even if she has decided you are the best she can possibly get the shit tests don’t stop. So far the best I can do is to keep them infrequent and short.
December 31st, 2014 at 11:00 pm
And sfcton,
You might want to watch the video posted here to see the magic oil in action. The first minute should be sufficient. The whole thing is 9 minutes :
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/30/mutiny/comment-page-2/#comment-77610
January 1st, 2015 at 2:18 am
It is 2015 and I’m half drunk. Happy New Year.
January 1st, 2015 at 2:44 am
The bad thing about having your wife as “first mate” and getting her advice is that when you don’t take her advice and you end up being wrong, she’s going to think she might do a better job than you as captain.
My husband has probably never heard of the captain/first mate model, but at times he acts in that way. When he doesn’t take my advice and it turns out I was right, that weakens his position in my eyes. It’s very hard for me to follow his lead after that.
It works a lot better when he looks at the situation (including any facts or preferences I might state, as long as he isn’t soliciting and I’m not giving advice) and makes his own decision. I need to know that he hears me and isn’t just being selfish, but I also need to know that the decision is his, not mine.
That’s a difficult balance to find, and it’s understandable that my husband doesn’t always get that right.
But then, sometimes I don’t manage to balance my wife and mother roles as well as I should. Naturally, I don’t tell him that. I’m a woman; I can’t admit when I’m wrong. :D
January 1st, 2015 at 4:57 am
@M Simon
Half drunk? Amateur.
A happy one to you too, sir.
@jf12
In what way would it evolutionarily profit a woman to *partially* drive her alpha male into the arms of another woman via antimating behaviors, i.e. for *her* to promote his polygyny?
Easy. Rollo is fond of saying “alpha is a mindset, not a demographic.” Assuming he’s correct, then continued shit testing of an alpha is to ensure that his mindset hasn’t changed. If it ever does, she’s out the door. This, in a nutshell, would be the root of the burden of performance.
Enjoy the new year gentlemen. It will be my first full year living fully enlightened by TRP. I hope that everyone here finds it as rewarding as I think I will.
January 1st, 2015 at 9:31 am
@ Glenn
Holy shit, man. I don’t know what the fuck happened. Long story short, obese girl with pretty face was giving me IOI’s at the last party I was at (indication of interest, I’m assuming is what that acronym means)….
…I didn’t even get drunk, but somehow I just went along with it, and going from playfully putting my arm around her to casually putting them all the way around her in full contact with her tits. Flirting like crazy and it all just came completely natural.
So at New Year’s she tries to kiss me and I freak out. In my head I’m panicking about the last girl I was with who looked just like her — obese, and even almost the exact same glasses– getting all freaked out like, oh shit, what if she wants to be in a relationship, I don’t want to make her feel bad, how do I handle this, what is she going to think this means —
— BIGGEST SCRUB ON THE FUCKING PLANET. Oh my GOD.
The moment she went in to kiss me I start freaking out about how she’s obese, thinking of that other obese girl I was in an LDR with, I don’t want a relationship, how is she going to take this — and then I started having an anxiety attack.
She actually started CRYING because she said I was rejecting her and started going on how difficult it was these days being a girl and all the expectations they have (that pissed me off)….and THEN she said, with tears in her eyes,
“You need to grow a pair. Really. Or more like, ten.”
Oh, did that piss me off.
And then she basically said how it was all ruined and everything was an awkward mess and why didn’t I just kiss her. She also said how she couldn’t believe I wasn’t getting any girls (my friend got drunk and earlier in the night blurted out to everyone that I was a virgin)….
…and said how attractive I was, and how confident I was acting…like I was “that guy” that just always got all the girls.
it just hit me what Rollo said about Game, and how you can have Alpha looks, but if the personality doesn’t match it, it’s a no-go. Creates a major conflict. This girl was SERIOUSLY distraught over this, and she took my anxiety as rejection even though I tried explaining that my anxiety had absolutely nothing to do with her.
But that comment “You need to grow a pair” pissed me off SO MUCH. That was the last straw.
I don’t know exactly how I managed to recover from this massive fuckup (we were talking for literally 2 hours after midnight after she tried to kiss me and it was an awkward mess, I was trying to explain my history and why I was so anxious, and she kept saying I was making it worse, and I KNEW I was….this is like Negative Game 101)….
…but I did. Somehow. I think she asked me if I was attracted to her. And I said yes. Because I was, for like, one night. I would totally be down for that. I don’t want a relationship but sure, I was attracted to her in the moment. I didn’t say that but that was the sentiment behind it.
So the night ended with us making out on the couch in the living room, with people walking in and out — that was a MAJOR reason I said I couldn’t do it, I have really bad social anxiety —
— but when she said I needed to grow a pair, something inside me snapped and I just went into zero fucks given mode.
I had my leg between both of her legs and she was grinding on it while we were making out and she undid my belt and zipper and started jerking me off. All on a small couch in the living room under a blanket with LOTS OF HOLES in it. And I was so pissed off at that comment I stopped giving a fuck who was there or who walked in and who saw me.
Last thing she did was ask me if I wanted her to go down on me. I said yeah, and she did.
So she blew me until I came in her mouth. After I got completely hard and she looked at my dick and went “wow” I silently was thinking to myself, “Yeah, how’s that for growing a pair”. I don’t have a huge dick, but I’m pretty thick and that is also something I want to feel free to capitalize on. I’m so fucking sick of being seen as a chump or a loser, especially since now that I LOOK like a winner but all that anxiety/panic response was still there.
Anyway, after I came in her mouth she went into the bathroom. Even though I gave her a heads up and she told me to come in her mouth. I’m trying not to overthink that one but in a way maybe that being a ‘beta tell’ could be a good thing, since I don’t want her chasing me. I wanted that as a one-night fling and that’s what it was.
I don’t like obese girls. It’s just what I experienced first, and outside of that 43 year old single mom, that’s all I’ve ever known. They can be a lot of fun, but I want to experience girls I’m really attracted to. And then I stopped and thought about it and maybe I really was rejecting her. If it was a really hot girl I was really into, would I have gotten so anxious and hesitated?
Was it really that I just wasn’t really into her? I wanted some action and was feeling desperate? She did have a pretty face, just like the other girl, but I’ve never had the experience of being with a girl I was really “into.” So that’s still up in the air.
That was hard for me to tell her I was attracted to her, or whatever it was. That I wanted to do that with her. Because in the moment I really did. But just in the moment. It’s available and I’ll take it.
But yeah. I ended up spending the night on the couch with her for a while, then I realized I really just wanted to leave after the blowjob. I was thinking about guys here saying to be careful — she did get drunk, but it didn’t seem like THAT drunk, and I asked her a few times about that. I thought spending the night there with her would be better insurance than just taking off, especially after the 2 hour awkward fest that preceded the New Year’s festivities.
I ended up getting bad anxiety again with her lying against me and eventually I just got off the couch and slept on the floor like I always do at home. Woke up and everything seemed fine with her, we talked just a little bit and she said she was really tired and wanted to go back to sleep, so I just gave her a hug on the couch and went on my merry way.
That was a huge lesson for me. HUGE. Pivotal point was how she literally had ZERO REGARD for my anxiety, I even asked her about some of her phobias, and she had plenty — but she could ONLY take my anxiety PERSONALLY.
See: Solipsism.
It didn’t matter how legitimate my anxiety was, or how little it had to do with her. She said in her mind it had EVERYTHING to do with her and it meant I was rejecting her, period. There was no way around it.
When she said I needed to “grow a pair” a little montage flashed through my head of all the horrible shit I’ve been through — and then I realized I didn’t have to explain any of it to her at all, not even the minor anxieties to explain why I was afraid of kissing her.
And then I just did it.
But I’m glad she said that, because it pissed me off. I was feeling bad before, guilty for making her feel bad — now my only concern is whether girls will falsely accuse me of rape. That’s why I wanted to be sure she wasn’t drunk when we were fooling around, buzzed at the most, but would remember everything and make sure it was consensual.
But outside of that — I am seeing the light now of not giving a fuck. If this is really how women think; I don’t owe them ANYTHING.
I actually do have Game. I realized that with this girl. Everything just crumbled when it came time to actually initiate sex. Everything up to that was fine. It’s just the fear of what THEY’RE feeling, the fear that they’ll want to be in a relationship with me and I won’t want to be with them, what will I say/do/etc. — and I had a panic attack.
Anyway, I just got only a couple hours of sleep so I’m still processing all this.
But seeing the direct results of being a chump, no matter what the excuses for it (I was emotionally, physically, verbally and on one occasion sexually abused growing up and have major history in mental hospitals/therapy etc., some of you guys here know my story)…..
…THIS IS HOW YOU WILL BE TREATED. No sympathy. Just solipsism. She took it as a PERSONAL OFFENSE that I had social anxiety. She took ALL of my personal, just-me problems PERSONALLY.
Solipsism.
And I got fucking emasculated for it. Having a YOUNGER GIRL who is no less obese telling you to grow a pair — OR ‘MORE LIKE TEN’ — now that is fucked up.
So I did manage to get out of my own way and show her that I do have an idea of what I’m doing. When we were fooling around she said I wasn’t doing things like a virgin, just like that other girl I was with who said “you could’ve fooled me” —
— so getting SOME respect after that insult, along with the blowjob, was good.
But mostly a major lesson. That seriously threw me for a loop — panic attack. I have major programs in place that are making me freak out at the opportunity of having sex.
But now that I’ve done this, for the first time in my life with “strange pussy” (only seen this girl at the same place ONCE before, like a week ago)….some doors are opening up.
As awkward as it was, I learned an INCREDIBLE AMOUNT, and I ALMOST walked out, I almost just gave up and left it awkward, and do something like shake her hand and apologize and go home.
But I stuck it out and managed to redeem myself to a degree. And now I’m home after getting my dick sucked and actually having a GOOD TIME on New Year’s instead of sitting home alone jerking off like I have done EVERY OTHER YEAR IN MY LIFE.
I made just about every blue-pill mistake in the book as a result of having an anxiety attack and completely losing my frame — I realized I never had one because I was terrified of anything sexual with any girls I don’t know very well — but before that I was gaming the shit out of her. The contrast of last night was so extreme I almost can’t believe that it happened.
Again…still processing it. If the wall of text that I’ve been famous for on the Internet for years didn’t make that clear enough. Heh.
It was definitely a great blowjob though. I think she was better than the other girl, although the other girl never went to the bathroom to clean her mouth out after swallowing. But whatever she was doing was amazing and I came in her mouth about as hard as I ever have in my life.
Happy New Year…now to continue with re-inventing myself. The old Softek as I said earlier would just have cut his losses and gone home without getting any action, and feeling emasculated. I don’t know how I managed to recover from this one but I did. It was mostly because inside of me I decided I was fed up and going home and jerking off when I had an opportunity for sex right in front of me simply was no longer an option.
Now if I can work on adopting that attitude with girls in general and develop an abundance mentality I’ll be in business.
January 1st, 2015 at 3:00 pm
Been thinking awhile of this. Seems to me, one of the problems in our modern western society is that war is more machinery then men now. Where as war was a constant in human evolution, and very human dependent, laying waste to a good percentage of youngish, able bodied men. The times of peace, being rare, there would tend to be less free men available for marriage. This instantly would move even a bare bone beta 5 up at least 2-3 points on the MMV. Also the more capable warriors would be kept in service and be given the rights to the women of the towns/villages that were over run (80% of female genes passed along compared to 30% of male genes).
With the evolution of warfare to dependency on technology and less on human, more peaceful times in more areas, the amount of free men has risen steadily, thus dropping even a good beta 7’s MMV at least a point or 2. It has also given the power of choice to the FI. Hypergamy unleashed.
It appears that MGTOW is natures way of compensating for this lack of brutish death that has followed civilization for millennia’s.
January 1st, 2015 at 3:10 pm
Oh yeah, meant to also add, that with the more capable warriors impregnating more then their share of woman, then leaving, it would naturally lead to a substantial amount of lower caste men, betas and omegas, to take up the burden of raising these Alpha children with their own, by marrying these once virgins.
Remembering that for most, it was an agrarian life, and the more hands available to do the work, the higher chance of successfully living beyond 50. I think these men would have had no problems marrying women with Alpha bastards. One extra hand already available, and known for sure that the women is a “good” breeder.
Therefore, there could possibly be a cuckold gene that has evolved over time, that explains somewhat, why so many men WK, marry single moms, act so feminine themselves, and enjoy gang banging.
There is some research that does suggest that men who participate in group sex/gangbangs, actually release more sperm and have more intense orgasms.
January 1st, 2015 at 3:14 pm
Just caught a clip of a movie about a Swedish family on vacation in the Alps who, while eating in a restaurant next to the mountains, see a controlled avalanche happening. It’s a routine thing and harmless as those who’ve been there before know but the father gets scared by it.
Movie is about the changing dynamic in the family after they witness that.
Title is Force Majeure. Sounds like it might be good.
This is the clip I saw:
http://www.details.com/blogs/daily-details/2014/12/the-best-films-of-2014.html?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_341819&mbid=synd_zergnet
January 1st, 2015 at 3:20 pm
On a completely unrelated note I thought this snippet of Feminist Ana Kasparin was interesting. When a superstar athlete spikes a ball it turns her on.
January 1st, 2015 at 3:22 pm
^^^^^
If it doesn’t queue up properly it is supposed to be at 17 minutes 32 seconds.
January 1st, 2015 at 3:36 pm
“The bad thing about having your wife as “first mate” and getting her advice is that when you don’t take her advice and you end up being wrong, she’s going to think she might do a better job than you as captain.
But that would mean giving up the freedom and protection being able to wait on the outcome, and if it turns out okay then you give great advice. If it doesn’t turn out okay, then it wasn’t you that made the decision.
How many women want to go from first mate to captain and want to take that responsibility and risk?
January 1st, 2015 at 3:52 pm
“How many women want to go from first mate to captain and want to take that responsibility and risk?”
Zero?
This is the paradox. Women want to heard, have input, even hold a veto against decisions they don’t like but never ever want or seek the responsibility that comes with authority. In light of that how valuable is a woman’s input when she risks nothing, or like My Lanta can’t admit when she’s wrong?
January 1st, 2015 at 4:32 pm
Maybe is off topic but today I swallowed the red pill. I thought I had taken the red pill years ago but the bitterness was just the red pill melting on my mouth. Today I really swollowed it.
And it is the worst feeling I ever had. I was walking around like a zombie for 20km this afternoon, I had to.
Today I met a close friend, for a walk, conversation is like cherries, you can’t eat just one, and my friend told me something about my ex girlfriend that I didn’t know, he just told me now because 2 years had passed since we are apart. The details are not interesting to write here, it’s not even a betrayal, it’s just that I lost trust in her and took her from a relative pedestal I had her when comparing with most women. Today I felt what Rollo meant when he says that there is no one. Oh boy it really hurts. How I wish it could be different, that could be possible that a woman could love you, that could appreciate you, that you could trust her. Today I can understand guys that feel that women don’t worth the work.
After 7 or 8 years I feel that I’m tasting the Ped Pill as it was the first time.
It’s so hard to not feel bitter today. How I wish it could be different. Trust no one.
January 1st, 2015 at 4:41 pm
This guy is great making analysis and I could say that is Red vaccinated. Likes he says: “I grew up with my sisters and female cousins. I know what they can do.” Maybe knowing that his mum betryed his father for 17 years helped a lot..
He is Red Pill but is not an alpha. That makes him to play the game very rarely. The rewards are not worthy, He says. Most people see him as a looser.
January 1st, 2015 at 4:49 pm
(sorry about my english, I’m not a native and I can’t edit posts also)
January 1st, 2015 at 4:59 pm
@softek – Dude, what a great story. Particularly the bit about seeing how little your concerns matter to her. And getting pissed at some wildebeast obese bitch telling you to grow a pair. Very nice that you realize how unnecessary the whole story is.
January 1st, 2015 at 5:08 pm
@Roby – I get it. But after that disillusionment comes great clarity. The sting of it will wear off and in the absence of women and their fucking pedestals, you will have room for yourself. And your English is fine. Thanks for your brutal honesty.
January 1st, 2015 at 5:45 pm
@Glenn
But after that disillusionment comes great clarity.
It’s true Glenn, today I finished my mourning. It took 2 years, I couldn’t make it shorter,meanwhile I knew some women but they were not good enough to make me forget about her. I think it took so long because we didn’t have a traumatic finish: our LTR (living togeter for 4 years) slowly converted into a LDR. I was living in East Europe but to be able to be a MGTOW and escape a beta sliding I had to come back to the West. I didn’t get a payoff from that move and she started to doubt from my leadership. From both sides we were careful to not break the relationship in a way that there was no coming back.
The glass have been broken today. To help it, yesterday I sent a sms after many months for new year wishes. No answer, apparently her mourning finished before mine (As I read somewhere here at Rollo’s also. I wish sometimes he wasn’t right about this stuff…)
January 1st, 2015 at 6:07 pm
@ Glenn
Thanks again for the advice. I still have a lot to learn but some major things have been clicking — I actually thought of you when I was about to give up that night. My friend saw me eying her and when I was falling asleep by myself on the couch he came over and slapped me in the face about 10 times and said “When that clock strikes midnight you get on that mattress with that girl and you make out with her.” Then he called his other friend over and he slapped me in the face too. I thought that was great.
Even though she pissed me off, instead of taking it personally, getting over myself and going on to get a blowjob was awesome. When she told me to “grow a pair” I felt so much rage — rooted in self-shame and self-hatred, ultimately. All the shame of past rejections, still being a virgin, etc., came flooding back, and I felt like a dickless loser and was ready to give up and go home.
I was able, however, to let go of that completely. And I transformed that anger, using it to get rid of my guilt about having a one night stand instead of using it to beat myself up and keep myself sexually deprived. In my mind it was more or less like, “Okay, fine. You want me to grow a pair? I’ll make out with you, finger you and let you suck my dick, JUST LIKE YOU WANTED TO, and then never talk to you again.”
The ironic part is the impression I got is that that’s what she wanted anyway. And now here I am. What better way to start off the new year. The surge of self-respect I got after hearing that really sparked something inside of me.
My goal has been and still is to get with a girl that I REALLY WANT TO BE WITH. An HB 8 or 9 or 10. Girls that I’m actually really attracted to. Now that I have never done. The single mom wasn’t bad looking at all and has kept in shape and has a nice body, but she was 43. I’m 25.
What’s funny is I used to be super ‘attracted’ to older girls, like they were mother figures or something, creepy as that sounds. I think that’s common for blue pill guys.
One thing I’ve noticed as I’ve been swallowing the Red Pill is that my attraction for younger girls is going up and up. At 25 the most attractive girls to me are looking between 18-23 years old. There are girls my age that are very good looking too. But my mindset has shifted to preferring girls at least a year or two younger than me. I found that interesting. Maybe just being more honest with myself now about what I’m actually attracted to instead of a scarcity mentality, only being able to recognize girls I think I might have a ghost of a chance with. Now that is a sucky way to look at the world. Glad I’m changing and leaving that behind.
January 1st, 2015 at 6:20 pm
Hey @softek , fat girls can be sexy when they are confident and work their “ass-ettes”
Here’s Andressa Soares showing the skinny girls how it’s done
I love a baby whose got back!
January 1st, 2015 at 6:41 pm
Not as off topic as you may think on first glance, but Dalrock has a great post on marriage / earning rates and the institutions that contribute to the increase and decline:
https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/how-to-close-the-gender-pay-gap-once-and-for-all/
Still think she’s the First Officer?
January 1st, 2015 at 6:42 pm
That’s not a fat girl.
January 1st, 2015 at 6:55 pm
Rollo – “Still think she’s the First Officer?”
Only if her name is Fletcher Christian.
January 1st, 2015 at 7:55 pm
Look, I’m going to say it how it is and everyone will hate me for it but the cold hard reality is kinda bitter :
I’ve been reading manosphere blogs for 2 years now and much of the information is solid but when it comes to LTRs it’s simply a lose / lose situation for the man. There are so many writers bending over backwards to lick their own asshole (and her’s as well it seems), dancing around the question of how to run an LTR, how to have kids, how to hold down a wife and none of them want to bite down into the hard dry meat of truth. They’ll polish your butt cheeks for you, with lots of fancy red pill language, but they kept the red pill under their tongue and never swallowed it properly.
An LTR is a massive compromise for any man. You get back far less than you put in. Not only do you invest in a penny stock, you get to be CEO and take all the blame for any problems. You’re the villain if you leave, the villain if she leaves or cheats, the villain if you stay, because her needs are generally communicated through a lot of emoting, moods and ‘poor little me’ attitudes, so you always have the monkey on your back – and this is just for starters.
To run an LTR you constantly have to take time out from any other pursuits you might have. If you want to get anywhere in the world and make money it’s 18 hours a day buddy… no break through will come unless you fucking motor at it. In case you haven’t noticed, what was once the free world of Western Europe, UK and USA, has now been joined by the entire soviet block, China, and the countries like India, Pakistan, Brazil and many others that used to sit on the side lines, playing both sides of the cold war. Literally billions of people have been added to the pot in the last 2 decades and that means it’s competitive as fuck.
When I grew up in the 80s, being in a ‘free country’ was a meal ticket to great education, wealth and a free ride just by your place of birth. That is not only gone, it’s ratio is watered down 20 to 1.
A working man that wants to do anything with his life, beyond a 9-5 and coming home to cosy up with the missus every night, doesn’t have the time of day for all the fuss, drama, attention and mood swings of a woman. Plain and simple.
Marred men whine on about how an LTR can provide you with a solid supportive base but this is the biggest pile of bluepill horseshit I’ve ever heard. An LTR requires constant input, financially, emotionally, logistically and it’s all extra hassle, stress, arrangements, planning. She needs vacations, date nights, gifts, treats, shopping sprees, cute surprises and so on and so forth. Public holidays like Christmas, Easter, and etc. you better be on hand because you are entertainer in chief. This is before you even put children into the mix, which simply adds more drama, costs, logistics and so on.
An LTR especially with kids, DOES NOT add a support system, it adds a massive, negative sum load of costs, time pressure and logistics onto your already loaded plate. If you don’t compete at work, Boris from St. Petersberg, WanJi from Canton or Ivan from Warsaw will have your balls on a plate in 5 minutes flat.
An LTR is good in only 2 cases. I
1.) If you are working class with little or nothing to lose and little hope of doing anything beyond some deadbeat job you can’t wait to go home from. Then you just work like a drone to earn cash and your family is no#1. Fine I can see that. Work for the man, think as little as possible and relax at the end of the day. If this life exists (it will soon be completely taken over by robots)… even this sphere is becoming more and more competitive, more demanding and it’s doubtful if you can live above the poverty line. Pension and Unions are gone and you’re going to be scrimping your whole life, but if that is all that’s available it can be ok I suppose.
2.) You are wealthy, successful and sociable, AND are financially rock solid with large amounts of assets and income. Wifeing up and having kids, then becomes the cherry on the cake – BUT BE WARNED. She can always cause havoc in your life, and anyone who is successful likes to work ALOT. Even wealthy people who have assistants and home help etc. still in all likelihood don’t have the time of day to juggle wife and kids and work. I just don’t see where the hours in the day come from.
There is no real support system, just some watery cheer leading if you are lucky – what there is a massive amount of fuss you need to deal with.
Who is going to win…. Doctor, Lawyer or Stockbroker no#1 – that comes home to his quiet peaceful apartment where he lives alone. The maid has tided the place while he was at work, he’s carrying some healthy take out food so he doesn’t have to cook. He has a relaxing workout, a nice long shower, chills for several hours doing his last bits and pieces for work, a little research and lining up his work day for tomorrow….. he’s in bed early and gets a good night’s rest, in the morning he throws on a fresh pressed suit and hits the local cafe for a quick hassle free breakfast and he’s sharp and prepared.
Doctor, Lawyer or Stockbroker no#2, gets home to the wife and kids. He’s greeted by a whole load of childish emotion which is nice and heart felt, but he’s really quite tired after a long day and a commute in traffic. The kids want to play, the wife needs to talk (about what he is not quite sure, her words go in one ear and out the other as she becomes visibly tetchy). He steels himself and soothes her, but he’s been doing this all day at work with clients and bosses and co-workers.
Dinner is late, the wife’s been run off her feet getting the kids from sports practice and hasn’t had time for grocery shopping. They dial a pizza as the hungry tense mood increases. The kids are nosy and loud around the house. He’d like to check his emails and go through a presentation he has at work tomorrow, but the wife wants to watch some documentary on penguins on TV with him. She wants to talk about their next vacation to Disneyland and he squirms thinking about the four figure bill that’s coming his way for that little adventure… there goes his bonus, never mind. He crawls into bed restless and frustrated, can’t be bothered to hit the wife up for sex, although she’s been up for it lately, he’s kinda tired tonight. One of the kids comes in at 2am and wakes him up with a bad dream, he smoothes her and puts her back to bed, as wifey wakes up with a concerned tone of voice. He finally gets back to sleep at 3.15am. The kids wake him up an hour early at 7am he was hoping for an extra lie in. Breakfast is a messy panic, his wife has to get to the hairdresser after she drops the kids off at school, they are crashing about the house all excited about some school event today. He crawls into his car to drive to work, feeling anything but supported. Ignored, drained, distracted and stressed are more the words that spring to mind.
January 1st, 2015 at 8:40 pm
Excellent comment Richard. I know it’s a typo, but “marred” men (beginning of Paragraph 7) is sooooo fitting.
January 1st, 2015 at 9:01 pm
@ Richard – You’re not saying anything new here. The faithful readers of RM usually self-police the trolls, SJW’s, white knights and religious nuts; so any POV related to inter-gender relationships is open for debate.
Not sure what ‘sphere’ blogs you’ve been reading, but here at RM, Rollo virtually owns “”biting down into the hard meat of truth”, and the great comments here will pick at the bones and suck out the marrow.
If you haven’t already, read the best of years 1-3 and all the posts back when RM started. There will be many others, but here’s a good post relevant to your comment http://therationalmale.com/2011/11/29/the-paradox-of-commitment/
It really depends on how you enter your LTR and whether or not you own and maintain the frame.
January 1st, 2015 at 11:57 pm
@ Richard
I can’t really argue with anything you said. Men have been devalued by a variety of forces including globalization, mass immigration, welfare, etc. etc. All of these things reduced the value of a man’s labor and therefore the value a man has to a woman. And I have no doubt you are correct that upper class men have it much easier attracting and keeping high SMV women.
However I still think it is possible to have a good LTR if you are at least middle class. Below that it’s probably tough because your woman will know she has nowhere to go but up. But I think there are many attractive women who are happy to live comfortably middle class lives. I’m not saying they are the majority but they are out there.
My mother-in-law was attractive until she hit her mid 50s, gained about 100 pounds and fell apart. But she has been happily married for over 40 years to a fireman. They are solid, middle class people that have traditional roles. She was always a stay at home mom not counting a few part time jobs.
January 2nd, 2015 at 12:00 am
^^^^^
I should add that my in-laws got married at age 18 after they found out my mother-in-law was pregnant with my future wife. People had more traditional thought processes back then which probably helped. A lot.
January 2nd, 2015 at 12:59 am
The more red pill stuff I read, the more depressed I get.
January 2nd, 2015 at 1:47 am
My Lanta
January 1st, 2015 at 2:44 am
Free of error? Never. Correct my errors? Always. But first I must be convinced I’m in error. Not an easy task.
January 2nd, 2015 at 1:49 am
Mentats – as Rollo mentioned before to you, you’re in that early stage of becoming RP aware that makes you feel ill. It will pass and hopefully you will soon feel giddy with a sense of hope and excitement that you can now live life with a new outlook and understanding of Hypergamy & the female imperative. There are elements of MGTOW that I agree with (self improvement and selflessness) but it’s better to understand and embrace your RP knowledge rather than be defeated by the FI. Be thankful you’ve found this fantastic life-changing resource, and I’ll quote Rollo here “don’t with it was easier, wish you were better”.
January 2nd, 2015 at 1:50 am
“don’t wish it was easier, wish you were better”
January 2nd, 2015 at 1:52 am
Richard
January 1st, 2015 at 7:55 pm
I’m still glad I helped make a family. YMMV. OTOH I was RP since ’62.
January 2nd, 2015 at 2:50 am
Today the first mate asked me in essence, “Why do you always treat me with disrespect?” My answer in essence. ” I’m shit testing you to see if you can remain submissive no matter what.” How is that for turning the tables some?
January 2nd, 2015 at 10:34 am
@ Johnycomelately
One thing I’ve noticed about the married alpha types is that they often didn’t enter the relationships as alphas but that their wives helped build them into alphas.
pfff.. are you kidding me?
I see, and have experienced, exactly the opposite. The manosphere tends to equate Alpha with Bad boy. Well, ok, a lot of ‘young’ boys are rowdy hell-raiser rebel types. I was.. It got me laid by higher SMV type chicks, but that wasn’t my reason for behaving that way. I was just young and restless. So that young, dumb, and full o’ cum waitress started jumping my bones we and got pregnant within 5 months. Both of us might have been wild as hell, but we were also raised Christian, and timing was ok.. so we married.. along the way had more kids, lived the whole dream, etc..
Well, over 19 years she sucked the fuckin Alpha right out of me.. and I fought like mad, oh hell yes, and I vaguely realized what was happening.. I could clearly see that I never should have ceded control to her in any way (which i never did for a very long time), and I could see all my efforts to recapture it were failing.. I was eventually beaten, just in time to take the pill and realize the depth of what just happened to me.
Alphas being beaten down to Beta by the wife is much more common, I think.
Especially with the femo-message looming so large nowadays.
Women want to be dominated, but when they realize it, in combination with the prospect of better options, that’s it.. hell hath no fury. They won’t just mutiny either, they will do their best to destroy and burn you down on their way out, to make you pay for all that ‘domination’ they never shoulda let you do to them (even though we know they wanted it all along). They can’t be honest with themselves.
It’s time the manosphere stops equating Alpha to Bad person.. Just because someone is fucking a hot chick with no strings, doesn’t make them a bad boy, or a loser, or even necessarily a bad decision for the girl. Some guys just get laid by talking/acting/being tough and/or nonchalant. Do you? Some are just having fun.. it’s not a crime. And yes bad decisions flow from that, and yes, there are consequences, and yes, chicks are cheating accountability through fem-centric laws, etc. But that doesn’t mean you’re a better person than the Alpha she’s fucking just because your intention is to truly love her. Pretty sure you want to fuck her too. Pretty sure if she jumped your bones in a car, you’d take it.. For all you know, he loves her too, but he’s just smarter than you, or more emotionally detached. And for all you know, he’ll marry her out of duty if necessary.
I got a lot of looks and prods over the years from dickheads posing as good men.. what’s she doing with him, blah, blah.. her canned response in the early days was.. he makes a lot of money and has a big dick (yes, that was her chosen verbiage). That was her totally supporting my Alpha and Beta simultaneously.. But the truth to those gents is this.. I don’t see YOU putting up with her psycho day in day out.. I don’t see YOU overlooking her flaws but still doing all the things necessary to keep the dream alive. YOU didn’t settle for her, I did. YOU didn’t give her tingles, take the RISK, GET her pregnant, then do the right thing and marry her, I did. That’s why she’s with me.. well, that, and what ‘she said’.
Ask any of those guys if, given the opportunity, they’d do it just like I did if they could’ve called my wife their own, they will politely and silently shake their head and walk away. Beta to the core. Men need to understand that chicks want crazy and intense, and deep down guys do to.
The sad story isn’t the Beta who started Beta and finished Beta. He asked for it, and got it.
The sad story is the Alpha who’s gas-lighted or brainwashed to Beta when the chick gets bored or unhappy or over stressed. He thinks it’s the right thing to accept and adapt to the fem, only to get stabbed in the back, and left as a bleeding Beta on the ground, realizing he should’ve stuck to his guns.. poor me lol.
Mutiny!
January 2nd, 2015 at 12:22 pm
@ TuffLuv
I get your point but don’t forget that most men are not beta because they made that choice. Life made that choice for them. Not everybody was lucky to be Red Pill vaccinated when they should (during childhood) and only got a pill when the virus was already inside the brain, or worse, they didn’t get it yet.
January 2nd, 2015 at 12:26 pm
re: untitlement. A fine new word to start the new year.
“When you tell a highly-untitled, high-scrupulosity person that they are entitled, it goes about as well as telling an anorexic person that they are fat.”
http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/
Women’s suggestions to highly-entitled women: “Eat moar! Moar! Act like you’re starving!”
Women’s suggestions to highly-untitled men: “Eat less! Die already, wouldja?”
January 2nd, 2015 at 12:34 pm
The hypothesis of Low Beta Tolerance has legs, I tell you.
http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/01/untitled/#comment-170038
January 2nd, 2015 at 1:04 pm
@Roby
Very true.. which is why Beta men with sons better get their shit together right now.
January 2nd, 2015 at 1:33 pm
@ Chillax – Just because you don’t know anything about Islam doesn’t mean criticism and rejection of it is wrong. Perhaps you should go here thereligionofpeace.com and see the death toll from Jihadis blowing up innocents, 24/7, around the globe – non-fucking stop. But hey, I guess you are too cool to get upset about that. Not me. And I will burn this fucking site down if Muslims start preaching here. Period. I can barely deal with the fucking Christians, Muslim preaching is too much. I’m under no obligation to tolerate the promotion of such barbarism.
And then you misuse game. I don’t use amused mastery with men who are assholes – I dominate them, I escalate and overwhelm them and force them to submit. I use amused mastery with young women. Get a grip on yourself.
January 2nd, 2015 at 2:01 pm
I’ve never heard a man refer to his wife as “my bride.” That would sound quite weird to me.
The only time I ever called my wife a “bride” was during our wedding. That’s really the only time that term is appropriate. Bride and groom are very context-specific terms.
January 2nd, 2015 at 2:12 pm
@ Tuffluv – Alpha hating is just jealousy. The “why do girls only like assholes” thing is more of the same. I mean, if a guy surrenders his power in an interaction, framing it from the outset as begging the woman to like them, I’m supposed to feel bad for for that guy? Nah.
It’s also true that my ability to approach women was hard won. It used to be nervous – and I still get pangs of it sometimes. I used to qualify. I was scared but I manned the fuck up and pressed through and found out that all that crap was self-imposed. I have been rejected more times than I can count. I have fucked up interacting with women every way possible. I’ve been embarrassed and shamed publicly – and I don’t give a fuck. I was gaming a 22 yr old 8 last night, and making some progress. Such a project is hugely ambitious for me and is very likely to fail. So fucking what? It’s worth sharing a bit about actually.
She’s a bartender at this unusual chinese restaurant/bar/rock club/sushi place that I stop in from time to time. I was seeing a friend nearby and stopped in for some sushi, at the bar, about 4:30 pm and she replaced the idiot who served me before she showed up. I was looking at her admirably and obviously when she noticed me ogling her. I didn’t stop looking when she noticed, I didn’t get nervous, I didn’t avert my eyes, I just smiled my devilish smile and she beamed a great smile back at me, holding eye contact, and immediately came over to talk to me, spending way too long chatting with me. I did several other snatches of conversation, but it got busier and as the more experienced guys here know, picking up a waitress/bartender can be hard because you can’t get them alone. I decided to not escalate too much and instead built and demonstrated very high value to her, which she was obviously digging.
I kept making her pull the conversation along and by the end, she asked me for my name – again, just subtly getting her to pull instead of me pushing. I may get nowhere, but do I whine?
Some people refuse to get it. All of life is a competition – fucking get over it already. Be a better competitor. This is the only “choice” men have – win or lose. Compete or die. I think many MGTOW and others in the manosphere adopt their many bizarre ideas to protect them from dealing with this basic reality. The funniest of all? Thinking one can exit the game while still alive.
January 2nd, 2015 at 2:57 pm
@Glenn
Yeah, I’d say the most fulfilling part of getting back on my feet in the SMV to this point, is conquering my fear of rejection (Rollo your articles on rejection avoidance are priceless, and sped that shit up dramatically).
I find myself practically seeking it out for the learning experience, and to harden myself. I aim high, like you with the 22 year old. Why the fuck not? It’s really, really, fuckin’ fun.. reject me bitch! I love it! Wait, if I never approach her, she can’t reject me. Fuck that. I’d rather be rejected by her than by myself for being a pussy. Bring it on.
And after real rejection.. drink a martini and chuckle.. damn I’m glad it doesn’t matter at all. ONEitis is a thing of the past.
January 2nd, 2015 at 4:45 pm
@Water Cannon Boy and Badpainter
A lot of women think they want to be “captain”, but they don’t. A woman who is in charge in her marriage will usually tell her girlfriends and female coworkers, “God, I feel like I have three kids!”, when she only has two and a husband. She will always see him as an immature burden and will feel contempt for him.
I personally don’t want to be head of our marriage and family. I also don’t really want to be his advisor. The times when I’ve thought I could do a better job of it than he was, it wasn’t that I thought I would be great at it, but rather that I thought he was doing a bad job of it right then. This was a direct result of my husband trying to be nice and get my advice.
You see, a man might ask his wife’s advice to try to show that he values and cares about her, but that’s not how it comes across to the subconscious, instinctive part of her. Instead, her subconscious will see that as him not taking full responsibility for his leadership, and will suspect it’s because he’s too weak and/or incompetent. If he then makes the wrong decision, particularly if her advice turns out to have been correct, that strongly confirms her subconscious suspicions of his inferiority. Even if he makes the right decision, he won’t get full credit for it, because he was “weak” enough to need her advice for it.
It took me a long time to figure out why it worked better (and I felt happier and more loved) when my husband made decisions for us on his own. Wanting my advice signals weakness. OTOH, he’s never made me feel like I can’t go to him with whatever info or concerns I have – but that’s different than getting my advice. If I told anyone but my husband this IRL, they’d think I’m either crazy or a victim of abuse. This isn’t how I’m supposed to feel. So, just more proof that “supposed to” in our culture is often wrong.
Badpainter, there isn’t a woman on earth who will admit when she’s wrong. It’s just a fact of life. It’s also one more indication that, no matter what feminists scream, women don’t really want the responsibility of leadership. A woman wants a man who’s capable of making decisions for both himself and her and will tell her what to do and think.
P.S. I chose My Lanta as a tongue-in-cheek username because if you take out the space that’s what old dudes take for heartburn after a lifetime of dealing with women who won’t admit they’re wrong. I thought it sounded like a gently teasing name a man could call his woman when she’s refusing to admit she’s wrong. I don’t know, maybe it’s too cheesy.
January 2nd, 2015 at 8:52 pm
My Lanta – “…might ask his wife’s advice to try to show that he values and cares about her, but that’s not how it comes across…”
I know that now. As such I view women’s opinions as like wallpaper; decorative, and ultimately structurally unimportant.
As for being wrong I enjoy and derive happiness from being right, so and admission of wrongness is not necessary so long as there is a public admission of my rightness.
January 2nd, 2015 at 11:57 pm
Great post, Rollo
January 3rd, 2015 at 9:14 am
Abysmal lack of vision if she imagines her role in life to be not merely a kid but a shitty kid. Being enabled in this at every step by society doesn’t help, of course.
January 3rd, 2015 at 12:28 pm
Women are inveterate backseat drivers, if you let them.
January 7th, 2015 at 1:00 am
[…] Mutiny in the marriage. Related: Language matters. Related: Attitude matters more. […]
January 7th, 2015 at 5:21 am
[…] Mutiny in the marriage. Related: Language matters. Related: Attitude matters more. […]
January 9th, 2015 at 3:31 am
Ok I read this. All of it.
You don’t even believe that women can be trusted to be the “First Mate” to your captaincy. Or rather, that they are not capable of and don’t want to be consulted by you. I mean what is the point of being a woman in your eyes? Is there an objective to life other than providing sex, cooking, cleaning, and raising babies and little girls? What a meaningless existence you contrive for women.
January 14th, 2015 at 12:07 am
[…] Mutiny […]
January 23rd, 2015 at 12:07 pm
[…] She's most likely an alpha widow… Mutiny | […]