In light of the Feminine Imperative having itself capsized over the UVa rape fantasy retracted by Rolling Stone this month, I was reminded of this video and post by Heartiste (Roissy) a few years ago:
Basically, the guy had a few friends follow him around the mall, one guy filming him and the other two guys (I can’t tell if any of his hired guns were women) acting as his “groupies” or entourage. He goes around identifying himself as “Thomas Elliot” when people, mostly women, ask him his name. Eventually, he begins to pile up admiring and gawking female attention, which only snowballs into more female attention. Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity. That’s the power of preselection and fame; so powerful, it can disengage a woman’s neural logic circuitry.
Heartiste goes on to make the prerequisite Game principle & application observations here, but there is a much larger dynamic in play. While the mall makes for a good setting to test this experiment, it is fairly isolated. A security detail gets assigned to “Thomas Eliot” and even some shops close in order to avoid a crowd panic, but could this dynamic be proven on a larger scale?
This is a very interesting social experiment, particularly when compared to the now infamous (and staged) viral video of Shoshana Roberts walking around New York and enduring the attentions of men she found less than savory. Interesting because they’re essentially trolling for attention from the opposite sex with similar methods, and the results are telling about how each gender perspective generates and reacts to that attention.
Darryl Long made a comment on this topic, and I’ve been considering it for a while now:
On this topic of how women’s attraction changes across their lifetimes I don’t think any analysis is complete without looking at the phenomena of teen-idols. As a man who has sisters and daughters its clear that there is something biological going on with pubescent girls in a way that is radically different from boys. Boys may fantasize about a poster girl, but they never fall over themselves for heartthrobs like Bieber, or Lief Garret, and David Cassidy (in the old days). I’m amazed that many of these teen heartthrobs are more on the fair/effeminate side than masculine. They look like they have good genes, but the most important thing is that all the other girls like them. They are male figures that girls lend incredible status making them even more attractive.
Preselection is a very powerful motivator of women’s hypergamous decision making process. Even the perception of fame (or even the potential for it) is a prime motivator and incentive to lock down a man who presents the hypergamous optimal ideal – a guy who satisfies the sexiness her Alpha Fucks hypergamous needs require and the long term security of provisioning potential from status-confirmed Beta Bucks.
Whether this “famous” guy actually embodies this ideal is irrelevant to a woman’s Id-centric psyche. When women are younger, tweens and teens, this self-convincing is much easier since girls lack any real world experience to reference with respect to what the guy really represents. A capacity for abstract thinking is something that develops as we mature, but the desire to optimize hypergamy is a limbic, instinctual drive for girls and no amount of reasoning can compete with the fantasy of a pre-fabricated idealized Hypergamy.
They want to believe it.
Thus we have hordes of girls and young women willing to go to behavioral lengths they would never consider with the mundane men they’re familiar with in order to just brush with the possibility of that hypergamous ideal. They will literally climb over one another to realize this.
In a Game sense, preselection (and prequalification or 3rd party endorsement) is a very powerful, instinctual impetus for women. Even in marginal, isolated social settings preselection is an overriding imperative:
Your goal should be to attract women effortlessly, so play to your strengths no matter what they are; there is a groupie for every male endeavor. – Roissy
Once you have a basic understanding of the preselection dynamic and how it is an evolved feature of women’s psychological firmware, the next step is to understand how the power of preselection influences women (and by association men) when scaled to a feminine social dynamic.
Roissy notes from the first video:
Apparently, not one of these starstruck chicks thought to question if Thomas Elliot was a real celebrity.
As I’ve noted in prior posts, perceptions are the overriding imperative of the feminine psyche. It’s not that women on an individual level don’t possess the faculties to discern legitimate social proof, it’s that on a social level they want to believe in that social proof. The estimation of the collective feminine mindset is a powerful influence on the individual woman since it plays on that non-abstract, instinctual need for a pre-verification of optimal hypergamy.
In other words, the effort of sexual-selection vetting has already been done for them by the feminine hivemind.
Verifying legitimate social proof takes individual time and effort. Perhaps not as much as men have a rational capacity for (the New York stunt fooled more than a few tag-along guys affirming the pseudo-social proof), but for women that opportunity for meeting a hypergamously ideal man supersedes the mental efforts needed to verify social proof. The greater mass of women already believe in the preselection and the intersexual competition is on and overt.
I’ve made the distinction before with regards to women’s preferred communications methods; covert communication being women’s native language, but when women resort to overt communications it’s generally because the content of the information needing to be transferred outweighs the need for how it’s delivered, or the context of that information.
Transferring information about a man’s preselected approval amongst a collective of women is one such override. However, it’s very important for men living in a feminine-primary social order to understand that social proof is not just limited to preselection of men as potential partners.
This social proof dynamic extends to the perceptions of women in a collective peer group, as well as men for whom they have no sexual interest in, but serve their material interests nonetheless.
The current cultural atmosphere of male suspicion and autonomous rape-threat assessment of men is another variation of this perceptual, hysterical, collective belief dynamic. Women want to believe in the presumption that every man outside of their preselected, collective approved, hypergamous ideal is a potential rape threat. In other words, a man who might, by force or coercion, assume control of her hypergamous sexual selection.
The narrative, the perception, is all that matters.
And like the women who never had an afterthought as to whether “Thomas Eliot” was the real deal, likewise women become so ego-invested in the certainty of their collective perceptions that, even in light of contrary evidence, the only acknowledged verification of that perception is how it makes them feel.
This contradiction of a collective feminine hysteria is what many luminaries of the Feminine Imperative are now being forced to confront. It’s important to remember during this UVa / Rolling Stone rape debacle that women, and more than a few enabling male sympathizers, wanted to believe this travesty was true in spite of the vaudevillian outlandishments and still refuse to accept that it isn’t.
From Truth to Power:
Denial
The first step to really unplugging from our preconditioning (i.e the feminine Matrix) is recognizing that this conditioning has led to the beliefs we think are integral to our personalities. The psychological term for this is called ‘ego-investment’. When a person internalizes a mental schema so thoroughly, and has become conditioned to it for so long, it becomes an integral part of their personality. So to attack the belief is to, literally, attack the person. This is why we see such a violent reaction to people’s political, religious, inter-social/inter-sexual, inter-gender, etc. expressions of belief – they perceive it as a personal attack, even when presented with irrefutable, empirical evidence that challenges the veracity of those beliefs.
People resort to denial when recognizing that the truth would destroy something they hold dear. In the case of a cheating partner, denial lets you avoid acknowledging evidence of your own humiliation. Short of catching a spouse in bed with your best friend, evidence of infidelity is usually ambiguous. It’s motivated skepticism. You’re more skeptical of things you don’t want to believe and demand a higher level of proof. Denial is unconscious, or it wouldn’t work: if you know you’re closing your eyes to the truth, some part of you knows what the truth is and denial can’t perform its protective function.
One thing we all struggle to protect is a positive self-image. The more important the aspect of your self-image that’s challenged by the truth, the more likely you are to go into denial. If you have a strong sense of self-worth and competence, your self-image can take hits but remain largely intact; if you’re beset by self-doubt, however, any acknowledgment of failure can be devastating and any admission of error painful to the point of being unthinkable. Self-justification and denial arise from the dissonance between believing you’re competent, and making a mistake, which clashes with that image. Solution: deny the mistake. Attribute it to an outside element rather than resort to introspection.
This degree of core-level denial is where the likes of Jessica Valenti, Susan Walsh and Zerlina Maxwell find themselves today.
“No matter what Jackie said, we should automatically believe rape claims.” http://t.co/3HFlXR7jme True insanity pic.twitter.com/AFXIyn32FS
— Roosh (@rooshv) December 6, 2014
In spite of still growing confirmation that the story was a hoax, femosphere bloggers hold out hope against hope that even the smallest part of a medieval-like rape story to rival Silence of the Lambs could be true.
The pivot for this will of course be how the falsehood injures women who genuinely are rape victims, but this is just the shiny keys jingling to distract anyone sympathetic to their ego-investments from the fact that they wanted to believe this story was legitimate.
They wanted to believe it without an afterthought of critical analysis.
They wanted to believe it in spite of the obvious melodramatic dialogue described by “Jackie”.
They wanted to believe a naive freshmen girl could be frat boy initiation raped for three hours on the shards of glass from a broken glass table and never seek medical treatment or have anyone raise an eyebrow over the bloody mess that her back must’ve looked like as she nonchalantly walked out of the party house.
They wanted and still hope that even the most marginal parts of the story might be true. They want any shred of hope that will distract from the fact that they must now confront their complete acceptance of this obvious farce without any compunction of critical thinking.
They all have to face the fact that their presumption of male guilt comes before any logic or reason. This is the uniquely feminine hysteria that even men will invest themselves into if it means they can more positively identify with the Feminine Imperative.
December 10th, 2014 at 1:25 am
Sex robots. Resource wars that could touch impact on our physical safety and use unfamiliar weapons, such as bio-tech, micro-drones, and autonomous robots.
Mind controlling implants. Brain upgrades.
Even in the last few years facebook and tinder have changed society. Forty years ago that was not a prediction.
Forty years from now the battle of the sexes will be held on a vastly different landscape. What having a baby even means will be vastly different; genes will no longer be a matter of paternity and maternity alone.
And the effect of native genes will be vastly different. We will be altering our own genetic makeup after being born. As well as our appearance, and organs, and senses, and even how our very brains and thought processes function.
Society will be connected up in new ways we have never imagined.
People think sexting is an issue. Brain-wifi all-senses connected international sex orgy anyone? What is your chosen avatar?
December 10th, 2014 at 1:30 am
My point of injecting this pragmatic uncertainty into the dialogue is to point out that in order to live strategically, our short and medium term goals must include working with the system as it is. Our long term goals should include being in the best possible position to adapt. And that for me means increasing wealth as much as possible.
Nowhere is it pragmatically useful to plan for a future in which the battle of the sexes continues to be waged in our current techlogical landscape.
That present is ALREADY the past. The present is history. This landscape won’t be where the battle happens.
It will be a DIFFERENT battle.
December 10th, 2014 at 1:51 am
For xslpat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQB2-Kmiic
December 10th, 2014 at 1:57 am
@xsplat
Counting on a deus ex machina to bring about a change in this aspect of society is missing the entire process it has gone through to get here. Technology never changed feminism for the past 40 years. It spread it faster, but it didn’t change the nature of it. It certainly didn’t change the nature of women either.
Perhaps genetic engineering will remove the need for both parents, but cloning is incredibly unwise. If it does change the game that much, the change would have come about regardless of feminism’s influence or lack thereof. It certainly won’t be making inroads within 20 years strictly due to societal objections.
Also, between now and then they won’t be engineering out the human need for sexual contact and emotional bonding, and that’s what drives the whole thing. The nature of humans has not changed despite all that technology. And as I already stated, even if I get the details wrong, I know my general idea is right: no change coming down the pipe will make it better. If anything, it will only make it worse or (in the case of the Internet, for instance) accelerate time tables.
It won’t change human nature. That hasn’t changed for thousands of years. Also, note that I said “I think” about the whole idea. I know the world can change, but I know how the parts you wish would change have a frustrating habit of staying the same.
December 10th, 2014 at 3:01 am
[…] his latest post Rollo quotes from an earlier piece by Heartiste explaining an “experiment” which relied […]
December 10th, 2014 at 3:02 am
@Sun
Thirty or forty years is long enough into the future that changing tech will certainly play a big role in our changing society.
I seriously doubt there will be any begging done by women for the men to collectively come back.
We will see a lot of changes, but a return of men to economic and social power in the home is not likely to be one of them. Especially not a return desired and called for by women.
Nope, it will continue to be the way it is throughout the animal kingdom.
Adaptation and natural selection, and survival of the fittest. Not all will adapt, and not all will sexually survive.
There will be no mass movement towards any sort of all-male empowerment – not from women. And any such movement from men will be entirely impotent.
The sexual battle we men fight is fought alone. There is no more socialist sexual strategy for men. That’s history.
December 10th, 2014 at 3:04 am
xsplat – I get where you’re coming from, but I disagree. History is not linear… It IS cyclical. You might want to read The Fourth Turning sometime to see just how cyclical it is. And as far as a “great reset” – that’s baked in the cake as far as I can see. And I don’t see it as some Socialist fantasy to rebuild a better world.
More likely it will be a long slow grind similar to the Middle Ages where the advancement of society (if humans even continue to exist) takes a long unpleasant breather. There are dozens of examples in history of societies overrunning their resources and burning out. That’s precisely what we’re doing now. The only reason we’re as prosperous as we are today is because of a unique circumstance: We have cheap energy in the form of oil (in reality, it’s just millions of years of conveniently stored sunlight). When that goes, our comfortable lives go back to being much nastier and brutish. (Incidentally, I don’t buy the nonsense that we’ll discover some new unlimited energy resource like hydrogen power, and every other supposedly “renewable” energy resource requires huge oil inputs in the manufacturing process.)
I’ve read some of Ray Kurzweil (The Age of the Spiritual Machine) and I see where you’re coming from on the technology front, the singularity, and all the rest. But what Kurzweil never addresses is that inputs are needed for these amazing (bizarre? frightening?) technological outputs. Where these future energy inputs come from on an earth of 7 billion people with voracious appetites for dwindling resources to upload themselves onto the web, attend global virtual orgies, change their DNA and the like is never adequately addressed.
Frankly, I’m not sure I’d want to be alive in a Kurzweil/singularity world anyway. To me, it sounds utterly soulless.
So where does that leave us? I truly believe we’re in the age of peak prosperity. The pursuit of comfort, selfishness, and “me, me, me” has become pathological. And nowhere is this more evident than in our women. In many ways, their behavior (now bordering on pathological hypergamy) is the canary in the coal mine signaling that the “reset” is near. It happened in ancient Rome when hedonism and debauchery ruled the day… It will surely happen again.
It’s cliche, but suffering and struggle really are the only things that breed character. We’re the most pampered, self-centered, spoiled people on earth and our women are even worse.
Bottom line: Whether you’re right or I’m right is a bit irrelevant. It won’t be pretty in either scenario. The only difference is that under my scenario, traditional gender roles will largely reset as well. Men will have to pick up the pieces as always, and women will tone down their hypergamous impulses in exchange for safety and security in a much more brutal and unpredictable world.
December 10th, 2014 at 3:05 am
Although men can group up into tribes and so better compete.
Personally I’m building a group of the best and the brightest, and we are positioning ourselves into industries that give us great access to the best women, as well as upcoming tech and health industries.
That’s about the only pragmatic socialism for men; forming co-operations and tribes.
There will be no gender wide movement to get “men” back. “Men” don’t count.
Only elite men even exist to women. Other men are not even there.
December 10th, 2014 at 3:12 am
@Thouroughbred,
Technology is not cyclical, on that much I’m sure we can agree.
We can have cycles within periods of similar technology. We don’t have cycles between different periods. Pre-agrarian and post internet societies don’t cycle – our situation now is novel and didn’t occur in pre-agrarian situations. Each new major tech shift ofers new social opportunities.
Before the pill and economic indepence society was different. The tech itself changed the society.
Peak oil is not going to stop birth control pills being made.
Peak oil is not going to stop bio-tech progressing.
Tech will certainly progress. In a non-cyclical way.
The ONLY way it won’t progress is if humans are completely eradicated.
Otherwise tech WILL progress.
And tech always changes society. In unforseen ways.
I never read Kurtzweil. Frankly I’m always irritated when he is brought up. I’m just stating the obvious, and it has nothing to do with some zero point futurist author.
December 10th, 2014 at 4:32 am
This is why Ann Coulter was way more right when she described left-wing thought as a religion.
It truly is.
Watch a leftist friend get spitting mad when you contradict them about the Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown narratives they’ve been fed. They will yell and threaten because their religion requires them to have such narratives be true. It’s like pointing out to one of Charles Manson’s followers that he’s really not that great. Venom.
December 10th, 2014 at 5:03 am
But tech doesn’t change the cyclical nature of history. Hegel was largely correct. We are at the cusp of the next paradigm shift. While tech will influence that it will not stop it or dictate it’s outcome. Tech is just a tool, it’s not magic.The airplane, the Maxim gun, and A-bomb didn’t end warfare. The information age didn’t end the business cycle.
“There will be no gender wide movement to get ‘men’ back. ‘Men’ don’t count.”
Which is why when push comes to shove Men resort to violence against other Men, because women are not the drivers of history. Men do count, without Men there is no tech. No matter what fancy new invention changes the world there will still be some man somewhere using a shovel because some tech is timeless and never becomes obsolete.
December 10th, 2014 at 6:25 am
Ya, there are still plenty of ditch diggers in Indonesia.
But for most of the world jobs that used to be done with shovels no longer are. The tech is still there, and we can’t uninvent the shovel. It’s just that we also can’t uninvent the back-hoe.
I don’t need to tell you or anybody that inventions up-end not only individuals incomes, but entire industries. It does seem to be news to people, strangely enough, that inventions also have dramatic cultural effects.
I would have thought that obvious, or at most a brief “aha” moment away from, “oh ya, I sort of knew that but hadn’t really thought about it yet”.
You can’t uninvent the birth control pill. You can’t uninvent tinder. You can’t uninvent the gun. We are not going to cycle back to hunter gathering and we aren’t going to cycle back to fighting with bows and arrows.
And our future inventions won’t be uninvented either. And they WILL have cultural effects at least as dramatic as tinder and facebook and the internet and the service economy and the pill and the industrial revolution and the shift from hunter-gathering to farming.
They WILL. And we won’t be able to uninvent them.
December 10th, 2014 at 8:08 am
jf12
December 8th, 2014 at 11:41 pm
re: orgasms.
It’s been my long and considerable experience that a woman is a lot more lovey dovey when she *hasn’t* had her orgasm yet
Mine gets cranky after three days with no “O”. I try to see that she gets wet at least once a day. And an “O” every three days or oftener. Just yesterday she was complaining of an underwear shortage. I said, “at your age you should be glad”. She had to admit that there was some truth to that.
December 10th, 2014 at 8:24 am
“And we won’t be able to uninvent them”
Who’s going to have the skill, tech and resources to manufacture them?
I can make a real good bow, tinder, cordage, or a house, canoe, even crude smelting, whatever, with not much more than my bare hands, a few favorite rocks, and most importantly, the volatile component of my skull-circuitry
(which by now contains almost all the things I need to know to make a “civilization” suited to, well, just me and my local environment. Everybody else can piss off if you don’t like it).
A B/C pill or even a unicycle? .. sure, I know how it works, and even the design, but actually fabricating? No chance. I’d have to go and bribe some old geezer in a shed who had the relevant craft skills. And they’re dying out and deliberately not being replaced.
Apprenticeships? How very dare you, you stupid boys! It’s a BA in Media Studies & Cat-Grooming for the lot of yez!.
December 10th, 2014 at 8:58 am
@ xsplat
I’m borderline agoraphobic. If I can get over that I’ve heard Thailand can be a good option. A friend of a friend went there and told me a little about his trip. Showed me pictures of him playing with tigers and also a story about how he got 3 prostitutes for 120 bucks. He ended up getting so nervous with all of them in his room that he couldn’t get an erection and they ended up going to pray at a Buddhist temple.
Yep. Lol @ going to a Buddhist temple with a bunch of hookers. Hilarious. I felt bad for him but he said he had a great time, and going to Thailand is a regular thing for him so he’ll be back again and will probably do better next time.
One thing I have to get over is the *resistance.* I’m so used to being alone I just automatically accept it as my fate. I think this can be a major motivation behind men going MGTOW too. The pain of isolation causes an adaptive response, and instead of considering the idea that that adaptive response could be *MALADAPTIVE* (prisoners that were held in solitary confinement, upon being released, tended to cope by – you guessed it – isolating themselves — Stuart Grassian wrote a paper on the psychiatric harm caused by solitary confinement)…
…it’s easier to give in to that maladaptive response. Because the maladaptive response itself is a form of psychological *resistance.* As painful as complete sexual isolation is, I believe guys like me who believe it’s their fate to never have sex are clinging to that belief because in a way, it protects them.
Protects against potential rejection, protects against having to develop social skills, protects against having to develop Game and a personality. The real deal is recognizing that what we’re protecting ourselves against is actually what we WANT, and the programs in our mind that are trying to protect us might actually be killing us.
So one main effort of mine is to stop telling myself the Incel story. It’s true that I’m a virgin. I could say I’m an “Incel”. It’s true by the definition of it. I could say that I’ve had almost ZERO sexual interaction in my entire life — but what happens when I keep telling myself that?
Replaying the story. AFFIRMING what I don’t want, by imagining what I don’t want, hating that I don’t have these things in my life, focusing on feeling bad and replaying pictures and stories in my mind that reinforce how bad I feel.
I’m on board with the idea of taking the Red Pill and never looking back. My biggest problem might not be that I “can’t get laid” — it could be that my mind is programmed to not get laid. I’m a good looking guy, I’m extremely intelligent, have a lot of cool hobbies — the only thing getting in my way is myself. Even if I wasn’t good looking, I’m smart enough to understand Game, I have a good sense of humor and I would probably be able to pull women anyway.
I think the real deal here is clearing out the resistance. Stop reinforcing the negative stories.
There is a saying, “Be – Do – Have.” It’s a model of thinking.
Be alpha. Do what an alpha does. Have what an alpha has.
What the Red Pill gives us is insider information that can transform the way we perceive ourselves. Alpha guys have what they do because they are alpha. They walk and talk like alphas because it’s who they are.
So we have some ideas here, from RM, and other places on the ‘sphere (but for me I pretty much exclusively read RM)….about what it is to be alpha. What works with women and what doesn’t.
How to prioritize our wants and needs. Be – Do – Have. I’ve flirted with girls before and even had one hookup since I started reading RM and internalizing what’s in here.
I changed myself first. And then the results followed. Even though it was only one time, having initiated my first hookup EVER all on my own was TREMENDOUS.
I’d say it was LIFE CHANGING for me…but really, looking back on it, what was really life changing was the change in my mindset I’d made. By reading and internalizing knowledge here from RM, as well as other places.
I changed myself. And my reality changed because when I changed myself, my behaviors, attitudes, demeanor, everything just shifted. And because I tried something new, I got something new. A hookup. I didn’t have sex with her and I was super nervous but I got to have a long makeout and fingerbanging session trading with her jerking me off for a few hours. And it was great.
Especially after 4 years of NOTHING at all, not even a hug from anyone. So that was great.
I’m falling back into the pit of despair, depression, hopelessness, etc. — and now I know that THAT is the problem. Rollo’s said to “Kill the Beta” — ultimately that’s what this is about.
True, authentic change. Unplugging ourselves so we can re-program ourselves to be the way we want to be.
The more I think of what I want from women, and what women can do for me, and MENTALLY, in the privacy of my own mind, focus more on *that*…the better and more clearheaded I feel.
You sabotage your own success with women in the privacy of your own mind before you even interact with them, IMO — and in my personal experience.
There is no reason we can’t go from zero to hero. That’s what I believe. They’re two sides of the same coin. If you can think you’re the worst piece of shit in the world and that you’re so defective that no girl will ever bang you, you have the potential to believe that you’re the best and that you deserve to bang any girl in the world that you want.
It sounds like a contradiction but it’s not. Having super low self-esteem is almost like being egotistical. If you have the ability to think you’re the absolute worst, the scum of the earth, that nothing will ever work out for you — you can believe the opposite. It’s not real, anyway — it’s a story we make up in our minds.
Much better to elevate ourselves and tell ourselves a story that we’re great and we can be and do and have whatever we want. Irrational confidence. Amused mastery.
But that’s the key I’m drilling into my head over and over again – the second I notice I’m feeling depressed, beating myself up, IDENTIFYING with the story of “incel” — identifying with it over and over again, and feeling HORRIBLE — that’s when I know what I have to aim at.
Aim at that feeling of being an ‘incel’, notice how I know it bothers me, what pictures/stories/self-talk am I replaying to myself — aim at all that junk, and LET IT GO. Piece by piece. Notice how each piece is represented in my mind, how it makes me feel bad, and let it go, one by one.
Be – Do – Have. Telling myself I’m an incel and that I’ll never get laid has worked PERFECTLY to keep me being an incel and to never get laid. That self-talk has been so powerful that even a good-looking, intelligent guy who’s also up on RM like me can keep himself from having any sexual contact with women whatsoever.
The results I’ve gotten perfectly match the stories I tell myself in my mind, and how I feel about myself inside, and what I believe to be true about myself.
Change the stories, change what we hold within ourselves about ourselves — and our reality will change. I really believe that and that’s what I’ve been focusing on like a laser lately.
The horrible feelings are my friend: because they’re the reason I am where I am. So when they come up, it’s an opportunity to let them go. Drop the giant bowling ball I’m carrying in my hands that I DON’T want so I have room to take hold of what I DO want to have in my life.
RM is helping tremendously with that. If I start falling back into a beta mindset, I’m getting better at giving myself a mental kick in the ass to get myself back on track. Be beta and you will do what betas do and have what betas have — which is NOT what you want. Be – do – have.
And thanks for the encouragement and empathy, I do appreciate it.
December 10th, 2014 at 9:27 am
@Tam the Bam, are you one of those guys who group together and convince each other of the coming Great Collapse? So many people have such an earnest yearning for the apocalypse.
Just remember one word. Evolution.
War involves tech. Survival of the fittest for humans, involves tech.
You can’t stop technological progress unless you kill ALL humans. All of them.
We are not going to ever be sustainably at a low tech period again. It’s upwards or death. That’s it.
That’s how it happens, and that’s how it’s going to continue to happen.
It’s probably why we can’t find any sign of extraterrestrial intelligent life. Evolution leads to intelligent war and dangerous tech which leads to extinction.
Personally I think we are headed that way – to species extinction through high tech. But even for a pragmatist like me it’s a painful thought so I don’t dwell on it. I just skip over it.
But as a pragmatist I have to plan for the future.
I’m not planning on bows and arrows.
I’m planning on robot armies.
December 10th, 2014 at 9:42 am
@Softek,
Yes, our internal narrative has a lot of influence. You have a background in self hypnosis, as I recall. So you’ll likely be aware that even if we tell ourselves a positive story, it contains a seed of doubt negative inside it. “I’m a sexy lady fucker” as self talk might contain in it a seed of doubt “am I really? Or am I just telling myself that?”
There was an article on newscientist.com lately that mentioned that self talk that is more effective is “you are a sexy lady fucker” when talking to ourselves.
However for myself I personally find that going over actual positive historical events has the greatest positive effect on my self-valuation.
As you found in going over your successful hookup.
If travelling is too great a step, you might consider dating older women. It’s what I did at a young age, and again even in my twenties. Older women are grateful for attention and more forgiving of inexperience. You have to start somewhere, and when the lights are out, an old broad can still be great in the sack. And when they are on they are better conversationalists, and have a more settled mood.
December 10th, 2014 at 9:56 am
Badpainter
December 10th, 2014 at 1:51 am
I haven’t heard that for a very long time. Thanks!
December 10th, 2014 at 10:05 am
There are dozens of examples in history of societies overrunning their resources and burning out. That’s precisely what we’re doing now.
I’m an engineer. And I don’t see it. We are multiplying our resources. And what happens when resources get very abundant? Birth rates decline. We are seeing that world wide.
I’m very unusual with 4 children. Three was my goal. The fourth was the first mate’s try for a daughter. She got her wish. What is the actual reproduction average in the first world? 1.5 to 1.8. Decline.
What will make up the difference? Immigration and then machines.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:14 am
I don’t buy the nonsense that we’ll discover some new unlimited energy resource like hydrogen power
Fusion will be good for another 10K years. By then we will probably have figured something else out.
Look up “m simon fusion” . I know a few things.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:23 am
johngmateus
December 10th, 2014 at 4:32 am
Well you might want to add this to your calculations.
“Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale for the War on Drugs.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:44 am
Softek,
xsplat’s suggestion of an older woman is good. And if you have the cash why not hire a congenial hooker as a dating coach?
In the mean time practice dominance. Do not be a supplicant.
I was lucky. At age 18 an older woman (22) took pity on me and coached me. By 28 I was getting a new one every 2 or 3 months. But I was kind of selective.
I know this will sound obnoxious but develop an attitude that “you are god’s gift….” And if you are young enough take up MC riding. And be a little dirty. Another “I don’t care” indicator.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:59 am
xsplat
December 10th, 2014 at 9:27 am
Yeah. Robot armies. Clone wars. I keep up with the “defense” sector and what they are up to amazes me. And the tech they have to work with is currently barely adequate. In another 10 years….
December 10th, 2014 at 12:25 pm
Re older women: the oldest I ever had was 48. She was a squirter who had multiple streaming orgasms and together we had some of the best sexual chemistry I’ve ever had in my life. Time would lose meaning, just the same way it does on LSD. Was that 10 minutes or 1 hour that just passed? One hour or 10 minutes? Truly mind blowing sex.
It was embarrassing to be seen with her in public, but in her apartment we were content. Great cook. Engaging conversationalist.
Her 19 year old stripper daughter would sometimes visit and sleep next door and hear the two of us screaming our heads off for hours and hours on end. Slap slap slap bump bump bump screammmmm!
So ya, the low hanging fruit to build up some experience with should be older single mothers. Something is better than nothing, and can be a lot better.
December 10th, 2014 at 1:57 pm
M Simon – “And the tech they have to work with is currently barely adequate. In another 10 years….”
What I find interesting is that future is often envisioned by, imagined by non-tech people, sci-fi writers, movie model makers, geeks and nerds. The actualization of those visions requires tech people, engineers, applied science types, programmers. The entire future of technological progress rests on the shoulders of men who are almost entirely betas. Men whose status, and competancy in their fields won’t enhance their individual SMV in the current SMP and might infact hurt their SMV.
At the other end of the tech chain are the Men that build the future and maintain the current infrastructure. Again mostly betas whose vocations may compromise their SMV. Especially when women demand men who have educational credentials at least equal to if not better than they have.
In the US there is a lot of handwringing about the shortage of highly skilled labor at both ends of the tech chain. What if some young men are avoiding those fields because subconsciously they know that those vocations are male birth control? What is the long term cost to society if any?
December 10th, 2014 at 2:37 pm
@ xsplat
The girl I hooked up with was a 43 year old single mom. Part of the reason I got kind of upset that she never came back and despite me trying to initiate another hookup multiple times (I’d always try to be not pushy about it and would always wait 2-3 weeks between asking, just would check in and it would be “no this week’s not good for me,” etc.)
It did feel good though because I let her know I didn’t have any experience with one night stands, and she said “Well you could’ve fooled me.” Once I know I’m in I’m actually comfortable — at least the few experiences I have had have been good, and going over memories of those (as you pointed out) DOES help a lot.
One thing I’m trying is imagining myself with other girls, while ‘melding’ in those feelings of having good experiences/success before. To kind of re-wire my brain into being success based as far as women go. I’ve done it before. I can do it again.
I’m 25, the only other girl I’ve been with was 8 years older than me and also morbidly obese. Pretty face though and I really did enjoy the connection I had with her. For real. The weight has tough to deal with but the hardest thing was that she pushed for marriage/kids. Especially after reading here, and guys’ advice to not even CONSIDER monogamy until I’m at LEAST in my 30’s….that was end game. I wanted to keep things open but she said she needed commitment or no more visiting me, no more phone sex etc. For the past 4 years all I had access to outside of that one hookup was sexting/phone sex with that girl once in a while. Which I’ve been too embarrassed to mention but now I don’t care — it was what it was. It was all I had.
I’d been in an LDR with her for 5+ years and was trying to keep that as an option while dating around, but I haven’t been able to get to the dating around yet. Been trying. I thought that older mom would want to come back. She said she had a good time and said she definitely wanted to come by again, but she never did, and I also noticed after the hookup, she went from immediately responding to my messages and being super attentive to barely paying any attention to me at all, not responding to my messages and generally just ignoring me.
I’ve been talking to a bisexual girl that’s 22 on and off and am going to try to initiate something. Maybe I should try harder with that. And I got LJBF’d by this girl that’s 29 but she got with another guy who dumped her for someone else, so maybe now she’s more vulnerable. But I don’t know how I’d escalate with her.
I’m not out meeting girls anywhere. One thing I’ve been trying to focus on is getting in a band. I get a little nervous because the only places we could gig around here are VERY bad areas, like some of the highest crime rates in the country.
I need to start thinking of ways to meet more girls. Like I said about being borderline agoraphobic — I work out and practice guitar and do all kinds of stuff but it’s all in complete isolation, so I don’t get any exposure. I think I’m more Alpha than I’m aware of after internalizing all this stuff. I could totally see myself spinning at LEAST 3-4 different girls and constantly looking for new ones. I think I’ve gotten over most of my attachment issues, the main thing now is just finding girls to have fun with.
I can deal with rejection a lot better now but a key for that that I’m missing is having other opportunities to pursue. I’ve learned enough now that if I can get laid on a regular basis by the types of girls that I like or can at least enjoy, I don’t really care who it is or how long I’ve known them or whatever.
I at least have the clarity now to know that. I didn’t have a CLUE what I wanted before. I knew I was lonely. Now I know I’d like to focus on pursuing music and instrument building as well as a few other things (hypnosis therapy for example), and as far as women go, I want to get laid and have a lot of fun. Don’t care about being in a relationship as long as I have women available at all times and knowing that I have the ability to pull some whenever I want — and also keeping at least one or two close male friends in my life, and being more social and open in general.
December 10th, 2014 at 4:31 pm
@xsplat what do you think might happen that is worse then “Yes means Yes”?
December 10th, 2014 at 5:42 pm
Minter said “…with questioning the validity of the 20% statistic,…”
I REALLY doubt the 20% statistic as well, but I haven’t been able to find good research which contradicts it; anyone have a study/survey that is good enough to mention in conversations with family/friends who aren’t red pill?
December 10th, 2014 at 6:13 pm
@ M Simon
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. Points taken.
December 10th, 2014 at 9:11 pm
The real impact of technology on men will be the distribution of income, tech advances seem to have the effect of flattening the income distribution curve. Every progressive stage of increased general societal wealth reduced wealth generation as a fitness marker for female attraction cues. Just remember how much Jon Finkel (of notorious Magic fame) was lambasted despite being relatively wealthy and relatively handsome to boot (but no game).
When land was the limiting factor of wealth it accumulated in the hands of few alphas and polygyny was the norm, the European Urban revolution saw the arrival of new wealth among artisans and monogamy became the norm. The industrial revolution saw the first sign of divorce laws and serial polygyny.
It sounds counterintuitive but feminism represents the last vestiges of monogamy culture, they are fighting tooth and nail to maintain the benefits that accrued to women under monogamy culture.
The flattening of income distribution means they can no longer assure their collective privileges from individual men so they are fighting like wild cats to influence the state and enshrine their monogamy culture privileges in legislation. But even this is ultimately a futile endeavour as income equalisation among the sexes means there will be fewer haves to distribute to the have nots. The middle class is shrinking.
All enshrined class privilege relies on prudence, just look at what they’re fighting for, anti game, anti male advantageous hookups, anti porn, anti prostitution, marrying foreign brides, machismo, male spaces (similar to the Temperance movement and Women’s Petition against Coffee), the right to work (who gives a shit if they work) and the most arcane vestige of monogamy culture, child support/alimony.
Man up and play your monogamy culture role, yeh right.
Just look at Susan Walsh, she became a prude overnight once she realised her daughter might miss out on monogamy marriage privileges. Problem is they want the privileges of monogamy prudence but they know they have to dress down and slut it up to get any sexy time with alphas.
They’re so desperate to maintain monogamy marriage culture that they’re even trying to get the degenerates to marry, gay male marriage is an oxymoron if I ever saw one.
Feminism is monogamy culture lag, the upper middle class is always the most conservative cultural class (if you’ve ever been to an after party at a Grand Prix you’ll see the elite are the least conservative) and feminists are predominantly upper middle class. Change is afoot and they’re fighting tooth and nail to maintain the remnants of monogamy culture privileges.
Every single feminist action is a reactive one, it’s a war of cultural monogamy preservation, they’re not fighting men they’re fighting cultural sea changes. Problem is men are reacting more quickly and they can’t see the forest for the trees.
Who seeks inclusion other than those being ignored, who seeks respect other than those who have none, who seeks cohabitation laws other than those whom no one wants to settle with, who seeks privileges other than those losing it, who seeks safe hookups other than those getting pumped and dumped and who seeks economic benefits other than those worried they’ll get none.
What does yes means yes mean? Absolutely squat, it means they’re getting pumped and dumped and they don’t like it. Sure they’ll try to ramp up the costs of sex but it is a losing battle, a rear guard action, enough women will see the writing on the wall and break ranks.
Upper middle class wealth always represent the legacy culture, the poor always adapt to cultural change quicker as they have more incentives to adapt (just look at American black culture, the first to genuinely embrace serial polygyny). What’s the point of maintaining the the status quo when there is no benefit to do so. There’s no beta bucks in the hood.
Upper middle class monogamist culture feminists will try to reign in their lower class serial polygyny sisters but it is a losing battle. How many times can you blame men for a girl giving blow jobs to five guy? Feminists collectively slapped their foreheads when they saw the British girl giving multiple blow jobs in a Spanish night club.
Serial polygyny is where it’s at and men (particularly alphas) are adapting more quickly to cultural change, game is the cultural vanguard. Monogamy has been around for over a 1000 years and change won’t be overnight but we’ve been on the path for the last 200 years.
Feminists, MGTOW and traditionalists will be the last vestiges of monogamy culture.
December 10th, 2014 at 9:56 pm
xsplat : “those guys who group together and convince each other of the coming Great Collapse”
lolwut i couldn’t give a fuck, I’ve actuarially outstripped any relevant insurance policies by some margin. Pine weskit afore the Thunderdome fer the likes of me.
It’s an appalling prospect. No pubs.
My kid bro lived with some sort of northern tribals in Thailand for decades (he hates our native country, too cold, too impoverished, too colonized). Has to touch base every year for a bit (visa/tax crap) and has experienced the anguish of never “owning” any local property, no matter how much you paid, all in wifey’s (and the blasted village headman’s) name, such is Thai sagacity when it comes to immigrants. Not a place you could ever bank on in the long term. Unless your tribe is bigger than theirs.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:10 pm
I’ve been talking to a bisexual girl that’s 22 on and off and am going to try to initiate something.
Bi girls are very good because even if her GF is gay – if you can make friends with the gay girl it triggers a competition response in a very friendly way. You get “qualified”. And if you can do a threesome it is really a confidence builder even if you only get to fonldle the gay girl.
Not only that – even if you are a late starter it will make all your male friends envious. Another confidence builder.
===
I’m glad to help.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:20 pm
What if some young men are avoiding those fields because subconsciously they know that those vocations are male birth control?
At the very highest levels (aerospace, rocket science) there are a fair number of alphas. But at the lower levels (commercial, industrial) very Betaized. In fact if I was giving advice I’d say don’t work aerospace if you aren’t at least an incipient alpha. You won’t do well. The egos in that area are giant.
I am fortunate to be a contractor. I’ve seen it all.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:33 pm
Now I know I’d like to focus on pursuing music and instrument building as well as a few other things (hypnosis therapy for example)
Massage is very good for getting your hands on a girl. Foot rubs. Back rubs. If you get “empty” (internally quiet) you can feel the acupressure points without having to train.
If the first mate is misbehaving I withhold the foot rubs. She comes around in fairly short order.
Talent advice – if you like math you will probably be good at music. They correlate. No one knows why. When I interview candidates for tech jobs I ask about hobbies. If they say music their rating goes up.
December 10th, 2014 at 10:41 pm
just look at American black culture, the first to genuinely embrace serial polygyny
It was forced on them by the depredations of Prohibition. Thus I’m not so sure it is a fixed feature.
December 10th, 2014 at 11:55 pm
“Women want to believe in the presumption that every man outside of their preselected, collective approved, hypergamous ideal is a potential rape threat. In other words, a man who might, by force or coercion, assume control of her hypergamous sexual selection.”
I understood what you said about pre selection and the mass phenomen of mass hysteria but why can it be applied to their rape stories? I didn’t get why they want to believe this.
Does it make them horny, thinking of strong man in a world of weak betas?
What do you think ?
December 11th, 2014 at 12:04 am
@ David W
“I REALLY doubt the 20% statistic as well, but I haven’t been able to find good research which contradicts it; anyone have a study/survey that is good enough to mention in conversations with family/friends who aren’t red pill?”
.
I don’t have anything handy, but you can probably find what you need here: http://www.cotwa.info/ (Community of the Wrongly Accused)
And take a look here: www[]avoiceformalestudents[]com/category/misandry-and-conformism/rape-hysteria/
And here: www[]avoiceformalestudents[]com/category/rights-protections/school-to-prison-pipeline-rights-protections/
December 11th, 2014 at 1:20 am
@Joe Katzman,
“Magnifique… charter schools are getting a foothold. First the plan, then the man (commitment), then the money. Tranched like any good VC. Tell us what you need from us to hep with the plan.”
Joe,
To start, I would appreciate a council of males who would be willing to provide a governance structure. This is not something I propose to govern myself. (simply not that arrogant).
Second, I would appreciate a council of other males who would be willing to help construct the curriculum. Not for one second do I claim to be in a position to do that on my own.
Third, free my time to sell and to lead.
Fourth, I could use technical help with the platform for distribution. I’m not inherently a tech savvy person, but with the right team, I can scale it.
Fifth, I would insist upon committed legal counsel, to fend off attacks.
Sixth, I could use a marketer to optimize getting the program to young males who might most benefit from it: charter schools, private schools, home schools, et al. (I have my own ideas, but won’t impose them.) (I can do this myself, in version 1). (I’m thinking that gaming culture has a role here, but I’m not a gamer, so I don’t know for sure. There are some BIG bloggers on our side who I think might be interested in such efforts.)
Seventh, I would like a bean counter under the supervision of the aforesaid councils, to manage the finances and financial risk, so that I can daily focus on the core mission, rather than daily with D&E&O defense (though, of course, that will always be foremost on my mind.)
Eighth, I would like a tech team (1 or 2 guys in the beginning?) to help me execute the mission online.
Ninth, and this could come later, I would like to have some Rollo readers willing to serve as regional nodes.
Tenth, there would need to be some soccer moms involved (or someone who could assuage those concerns).
Eleventh, there would be a due diligence phase for all involved, myself included.
Twelfth, a small team to help pull together the plan.
Thirteenth, this is NOT to be a manosphere site, and all such overt connections must be severed. It is to be intended for YOUNG males—like late high school and early college—the males who we all wish we could talk to, knowing what we now know.
Fourteenth, this all must be built on the MEAN stack. (loosely negotiable).
Summary: I am willing to execute this whole thing, under the supervision of others. But I want consensus in developing the curriculum, consensus in the defense of what we’re doing, expertise help in the marketing, and generally, a team to back what we’re doing. (Yeah, I know, I’m a big giant pussy for wanting consensus, but look men, we’re talking about YOUNG men, and that is an EXTREMELY high liability environment… no fucking way am I personally taking on all that liability alone… no fucking way.)
I am willing to be a node of coordination, management, and energy.
Not for a second do I claim all the answers, but merely to commit myself to this mission, for the remainder of my life. I can’t think of anything more significant to do with my time allotted. But I’m not claiming to be willing to do it myself. I’m not willing to do that. But if enough other males are willing to get in on this and fill the cracks, I’ll happily do the bulk of the work.
Caveat: If the consensus goes sideways to a place that I simply cannot support, then I will gracefully bow out and pass the reigns to someone else. That said, I will also scuttle the whole thing if I believe that it is becoming co-opted… AND I WILL MAKE A HOLY SHITSTORM OF THAT FACT, FAR AND WIDE, IF CIRCUMSTANCES SO DICTATE.
Finally, if it sounds like I’m saying “I’ll do it, but everyone else has to do the work,” yeah, right, you’ve never run a business. It’s called humility. I know that I can’t do this by myself. Notice that I’m not requesting salary/perks/equity… merely brothers in arms.
The above said, any of you men who are interested in building this thing, I don’t know, contact Rollo. If Rollo makes a future post based upon enough reader interest, then I’m your Huckelberry… I will do this.
In your court, gentlemen, and thanks Joe, for the positive response.
PS—I just now heard my 94 year old grandmother call bullshit on the UVA “rape scandal”.
December 11th, 2014 at 3:24 am
Or, all of the manosphere energy concentrated here at Rollo’s site can wait for the public school system to do it for you (or to your fucking children). Good luck with that. Man, I want to curse you guys, but I will show some restraint and not do it. Nonetheless, I suppose that if you won’t step up, then no one will. Fuck. Pulling my hair out. Soon, it will be time to leave you to your slumber, and I just really don’t want to do that—because the consequences for me and mine will be dire. But whatever male instincts you were born with seem to have been snuffed out. Fuck. I don’t like this; not at all.
Hey, enemies reading this blog >> FUCK YOU. (good laugh, right?)
Look, gentlemen, please, for your own sake and mine, wake the fuck up. WAKE UP!!!!!!
December 11th, 2014 at 3:54 am
Softek, why don’t you just consider hiring an escort and get it over with already.
You’re pretty good at analyzing your condition, but being too much in your head doesn’t help you. To enable you to get women and not overanalyzing it too much you just need an experience or 2 to break you free from it.
I know you might say that you want to “earn” it (whatever that means). I say f*ck it.
Just do a few girls, let all the frustration out and you’ll be much better off. After that you’ll see the anxiety fading because you’ll realize it’s all not that important.
December 11th, 2014 at 5:52 am
@magnifique
What are you talking about?
December 11th, 2014 at 6:13 am
@Peeps,
Clear the way for a wrecking ball.
Or get your friends in on the action. If nothing else, in your fleeting life, it will be a fun-ass thing for you and your friends to drink beers to… and it just might amount to much more than that… something that you might even pass onto your children (or grandchildren).
I’m sorry, I really can’t grovel to you all that much, because I really don’t respect you all that much. Do what’s in your heart. Yes, I knew you before your VP status… I know what you really are, what you are really made of, when you were crying like a little bitch to get your trophy(?) wife that you could haul to firm Xmas parties (‘x’ intentional). Yeah, that’s right, I know you, personally, bitch. I don’t hate you; I feel deeply for you, and I wonder how you look in the mirror every morning. Don’t frame. I knew you when. I know what you’re made of. I know who you really are. A motherfucking sellout. A sellout to your own people. Disgraceful. You will have to live with that. We both made our decisions. I sleep with a clear conscious. Now that oil is plummeting, I suppose we will see what you are really made of.
You know that your overlords give not one single shit about you and your kids. We, on the other hand, just might, but you already knew that.
Good luck with the cratering oil prices.
December 11th, 2014 at 6:15 am
@Chester
Previous thread…
December 11th, 2014 at 6:58 am
re: “Verifying legitimate social proof takes individual time and effort.”
Yes. Dishonest signalling works very well indeed.
December 11th, 2014 at 7:08 am
@Badpainter re: “The actualization of those visions requires tech people, engineers, applied science types, programmers.”
In a very real sense we “tech people” have almost entirely found ourselves involuntarily drafted into the army of the populace subservient to the pipe dreams of the plutocrats. Almost all rich and powerful people are incompetent and merely lucky, especially compared to the sleeping giant of “tech people” aka “the actually competent”. The dreams of the plutocrats are usually not merely unrealizable but actually objectively worse – stupider, less detailed, sillier, more self-serving, etc. – than the dreams of the competent.
December 11th, 2014 at 7:11 am
@David Black re: “Does it make them horny, thinking of strong man in a world of weak betas?”
Not particularly, but glad you asked. Actually it makes them horny to think of bad men violently forcing fearful women. If you want to know.
December 11th, 2014 at 7:15 am
If de’ briar patch of wolf-whistling cat-calling alley-thug rapists won’t materialize itself in the real world, then Sister Rabbit will just imagine that’s where she already is.
December 11th, 2014 at 11:26 am
From the mouths of babes, right?
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/about-a-girl-coy-mathis-fight-to-change-change-gender-20131028
December 11th, 2014 at 12:30 pm
A few random reactions:
@ Badpainter – Spot on with respect to female anxiety and fears. They are better off being kept busy with some small crisis or drama in their lives. They seem happier when this is so, and this may explain why so many women create drama when it’s unnecessary. It may also just be plain old boredom.
@ whoever mentioned Ray Kurzweil and the singularity – Just know that the leading minds in artificial intelligence (Kurzweil is not among them) will not even discuss Kurzweils idiotic ideas. His “science” is complete horseshit and his lack of understanding about economics is even more profound. Don’t believe me? Do some critical reading on him and you’ll find out I’m 100% correct. The singularity is a pseudo-intellectual fantasy.
@ Minter – How’s married life treating you? Care to give us a “field report” on that? Fyi, you have no credibility on anything, and when you try to call Neil Strauss’s view on the PUA community and RSD into question, I just have to laugh. When he says something, it has 1000 times the credibility of anything you have to say.
How can you not get that you are a joke in this community? I have exactly nothing in common with you or that scumbag Julian over at RSD. Perhaps others here don’t mind making common cause with you or him, but just the thought that I’m “in it” with you or him makes me sick to my stomach. I’ve been passing by and laughing at asswipes like you guys my whole life. I’m not surprised that you defend him but you seem to think you have solidarity with the rest of us, and presume a role in speaking to us that is completely out of step with your standing in this community.
Let me be clear who you are to some of us in this community. You are the punchline to a bad joke. You are a cautionary tale. You are a lout, a liar, a loudmouth and not much of a man.
I get it. We all have feet of clay. But fuckups shouldn’t give lectures. I do have a suggestion for you. Take all the energy you spend posting on these sites and put that into doing a good job for your employer or client. Or into actually looking for a job. Then, provide for and care for your children if they aren’t completely grown up already. Try and actually be a functioning, real man for like 5 years, and then get back to us and tell us what you learned.
I’m sorry – is this another example of the internet being mean to you?
December 11th, 2014 at 2:00 pm
@Glenn,
“How can you not get that you are a joke in this community? I have exactly nothing in common with you or that scumbag Julian over at RSD. Perhaps others here don’t mind making common cause with you or him, but just the thought that I’m “in it” with you or him makes me sick to my stomach.”
I hear you.
Support of those scumbags also makes it difficult for me to find common cause. For fuck’s sake: they advocate rape on twitter to young, impressionable, socially uncalibrated males. How could anyone support that?
Also, I’ve never supported Minter’s output. In fact, go read posts from his glory days, when he was being supported by the proprietors, and you will find ONE lonely voice among the fervor, who was calling it like it was, in real time (same with RSD). Took many months for the community to catch up.
That said, Minter is still a human being, like the rest of us, so I cautioned that we allow him space to work out his human issues. However, if he, without repentance, insists upon expressing his output here (in defense of tools who promote rape via twitter), well, I suppose he is asking for it.
I personally won’t pile on, because I know I’m no model of perfection; but I won’t question those who do. Cause and effect.
Incidentally, I also never piled onto RSD, because those guys are also just humans trying to find their paths in life. I did call out the asshattery of their proselytes in the mansophere (in real time), in an effort to give the average reader an option for a different viewpoint, which went unheeded by the proprietors.
Anyway, yeah, lack of repentance, plus doubling down on previous buffoonery, pretty much removes my thoughts from the picture. Carry on.
December 11th, 2014 at 2:34 pm
@Glenn
“…but just the thought that I’m “in it” with you or him makes me sick to my stomach… you seem to think you have solidarity with the rest of us, and presume a role in speaking to us …”
Perhaps you’re putting the cart before the horse. Presuming acceptance and solidarity may be a way of acquiring them.
December 11th, 2014 at 3:06 pm
Johnycomelately
December 10th, 2014 at 9:11 pm
Good observations. Another way of putting it is that women’s instinct to get men to provision them is still functioning, and probably will continue to do so for a long time. in that sense it’s not vestigial.
Monogamy culture has been around about as long as agriculture and similarly has had little influence on our DNA. What I’m interested in is what relationships between men and women are naturally like in pre-civilization cultures. I’ve read the herd-like and ghetto-like depictions of that, but I would like to see more detail from verifiable sources.
That knowledge would be useful for game purposes as well as aligning my lifestyle more closely with what my genes want and expect.
While monogamy culture might have been necessary for civilization, it is no longer operative. My experience has been that I don’t actually want to be pair bonded and monogamous long term anyway, and clearly women tend to be the same way. What are alternatives consistent with my instinct for my woman to be exclusive with me? Serial monogamy? Harems? Any thing else?
December 11th, 2014 at 3:49 pm
Re Rollo’s link…
Goddamn why are so many parents so infuriatingly ignorant? There seems to be some kind of mass delusion that children come out of the womb with most of their preferences, personality, and behavior pre-determined, and that all kids need is “space” to “figure things out on their own.” This thinking then turns into a crutch to stop watching your own child’s behavior and figure out what is influencing them. Eventually you get quotes like the above where it’s clear that the child would have to be setting fire to the house to get any real attention on his/her behavioral problems, and you can suddenly see why so many kids are sooo f-ed up in the head once they become adults.
Sorry parents, you and the environment you provide to your child are the biggest influence on your child, BAR NONE. If they’re behaving a certain way, it’s a result of the environment YOU PROVIDED, period.
$100 says that the kid in that story was babysitted through most of his childhood by watching animated Disney movies that have subtle (but obvious if you’re paying attention) digs at masculinity.
December 11th, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Jeremy,
Is it just me or the only idiots who try and intentionally raise children without gender roles/expectations leftist man haters?
December 11th, 2014 at 4:14 pm
A good way to refuse sex without drawing a false rape accusation or sexual assault by withholding sex charge: tell her you’re a gay tranny.
It’s fashionable these days. You might even get SJWs doing things for you. Might be worth money too.
If enough men claimed to be gay or tranny to game the system, it might trigger a retreat from the current climate of social silliness.
December 11th, 2014 at 4:40 pm
@ Magnifique – I like your contributions here for sure, but please, I don’t need to be reminded that Minter is a human being. He’s an asshole. And you’ve known it for a long time, so yeah, we’re on the same page.
Being an atheist and a selfish prick has its advantages. I don’t think all human life has dignity and worth. I don’t think people are innately good. I take people as they come and deal with them as I see fit. I don’t feel bad for Minter. I could give a shit less about his humanity – he’s human detritus. Fyi, I say this not only because of his ridiculously fraudulent rep in the PUA world and his endless, self-aggrandizing blather, I say this most of all because he abandoned his kids. There are very few things worse than this to me. His wife’s disclosures were heartbreaking and had the ring of truth. It’s not just that he didn’t pay his child support, it’s that he abandoned them. It’s one of the lowest things a man/father can do. Even if you’re broke – stay close when they are kids. Do your best. He didn’t.
So, I shit on him relentlessly. If I wasn’t an atheist, I’d say I’m doing God’s work. The real question is why the rest of you tolerate this man-child for a second? He’s been weighed, counted, measured and found wanting. By a mile. Next.
December 11th, 2014 at 5:53 pm
When one studies the author (JRR Tolkien) of the Lord of the Rings, one will discover that he was a pretty righteous fellow. Why did Frodo give Gollum so much slack? Because he knew: he knew that the same sickness that was inside of Gollum was inside of him also. And he had to believe that he could transcend it (which he did, with the help of his spiritual brother, Sam, because none of us are in this thing alone).
Yes, I have known about Minter for a long time. I’ve also known about many proprietors and loud commenters for a long time (myself, included).
“Abandoning kids” = the ULTIMATE sin. Hence, therationalemale.com, et al.
“It’s not just that he didn’t pay his child support, it’s that he abandoned them. It’s one of the lowest things a man/father can do. Even if you’re broke – stay close when they are kids. Do your best.”
Brother, on this, we agree one million percent. As I just stated, it’s the ultimate sin to abandon one’s issue.
“The real question is why the rest of you tolerate this man-child for a second?”
Because we’re all broken, my friend, and we all need to believe that we can come back from it, else, why the fuck is Rollo wasting his time here?
@Glenn, I get you brother, I really do. And more importantly, I get your power. Wow. I don’t have all the answers. But I know this. Those of us with less power than you, need you. We need you to let pass your own personal shit, and lead. Heavy, right? (Must first burn out inner shit.) Sucks to ride point, but there you are, brother. What will you do with that responsibility?
I believe that a shit ton of readers here look to you, but they want you to get past your own personal shit and start serving THEM—same with me. Look, I’m broken; I don’t think I’ve ever denied that, hence my trepidation at leading others. But you @Glenn, your power blasts through the browser window. Do you realize how many males you are influencing? Have you ever actually considered that? Do you want your mark in the manosphere to be snuffing Minter, or do you want it to be something greater?
We all look forward to what you will become here, and we want it to be the shit, because that will inure to all of us.
Peace.
December 11th, 2014 at 6:16 pm
Australia 517/7d
India 369/5 (97.0 ov)
India trail by 148 runs with 5 wickets remaining in the 1st innings
What? The where ..?
Oh sorry chaps, must have a touch of hysteria. Horse on.
December 11th, 2014 at 8:29 pm
Magnifque
December 11th, 2014 at 1:20 am
Joe is absolutely top drawer. I have known him on the ‘net for about 14 years. If you get a chance to work with him. Do.
Hi Joe :-)
December 11th, 2014 at 8:37 pm
Magnifque
December 11th, 2014 at 1:20 am
I can help some with science, technology (electronics, computers, power, control) and manual arts. My e-mail is on the sidebar at:
http://spacetimepro.blogspot.com/
As much as possible avoid books. Most everything needed is on the ‘net. All except lab eqpt.
December 11th, 2014 at 8:41 pm
Brother, on this, we agree one million percent. As I just stated, it’s the ultimate sin to abandon one’s issue.
Which is one of the reasons I stuck with the first mate no matter what. And better yet. When I hit a very low point with her and was ready to give up totally who provided council that changed my mind? #1 son.
December 11th, 2014 at 8:59 pm
$100 says that the kid in that story was babysitted through most of his childhood by watching animated Disney movies that have subtle (but obvious if you’re paying attention) digs at masculinity.
Some. But hormones in the womb also matter. Living in a big city matters. Ecology matters.
http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2009/11/blue-and-red.html
December 11th, 2014 at 8:59 pm
@ M Simon,
“When I hit a very low point with her and was ready to give up totally who provided council that changed my mind? #1 son.”
Amen.
December 11th, 2014 at 10:09 pm
@Magnifque
December 11th, 2014 at 1:20 am
Re: Joe Katzman,
I can’t find Joe’s comment… wth are you discussing, exactly?
December 11th, 2014 at 10:51 pm
http://therationalmale.com/2014/12/05/teach-your-children-well/comment-page-2/#comments
Joe Katzman
December 6th, 2014 at 3:45 am
Sorry, posted that last in the wrong thread somehow.
Magnifique… charter schools are getting a foothold. First the plan, then the man (commitment), then the money. Tranched like any good VC. Tell us what you need from us to hep with the plan.
December 12th, 2014 at 1:05 am
Willa Brown doesn’t get it.
I this article she shows both complete contempt for and a simultaneous absence of understanding about masculinity and why today men might search for any totem, ritual, or costume that allows us to reconnect with ourselves absent the good opinion of women. She does do a nice job demonstrating why a woman’s opinion on such matters is every bit as uninformed, unimportant, and unwanted as my opinion of the best brand tampons would be if I had one.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/12/lumbersexuality-and-its-discontents/383563/
Of course the criticism is directed only evil white men. Quelle surprise.
December 12th, 2014 at 11:43 am
very important report is now out:
Rape and Sexual Assault Victimization Among College-Age Females, 1995–2013
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf
“rate of rape and sexual assault was 1.2 times higher for non-students (7.6 per 1,000) than for students (6.1 per 1,000)”
statistically, rape culture on campus is hysteria
December 12th, 2014 at 4:26 pm
@ Softek:
This is a bit random but your comments here finally shed light on the frustration of a friend I once held dear. Ultimately his utter failure at dating and my inability to comprehend, much less assist him, drove us apart.
I’m glad I finally got to understand what this feels like and why it’s such a pain. I still can’t understand it – it just does not compute in my mind that this is possible – but just seeing a bit makes me feel like, maybe, the next time I run into this I can be less useless as a friend.
December 15th, 2014 at 10:34 am
If rape by deception gets wider acceptance, then a marine in the Philippines who is charged with killing a transsexual woman could be said to have killed an attempted rapist.
“…According to the Philippine National Police, Pemberton allegedly met Laude and another transgender woman named Barbie at a disco bar while on shore leave in Olongapo City.
The three checked into a motel, but later that night, Laude told the other woman that they should leave before Pemberton could discover that they were transgender.
Laude was found next to a toilet by the motel clerk, dead by apparent drowning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/15/u-s-marine-charged-with-the-murder-of-a-transgender-woman-in-the-philippines/?tid=hpModule_04941f10-8a79-11e2-98d9-3012c1cd8d1e
December 19th, 2014 at 5:29 am
Perhaps I might add to Thoroughbreds list of Hysteria (December 8) the present hysteria in England over the late Jimmy Saville. Saville who for forty years was as popular as one could be, a man who dspite his fame devoted his life to charitable causes, turned over-night post-mortem in to the worst man who ever lived and there is not one shred of evidence to support the ever-growing list of his abominations ascribed to him. The non-stop calumny comes entirely from women who have been set in motion by one single and entirely inaccurate allegation (Duncroft).
For women, men are invisible but if not then they are either like ‘Thomas Eliot’ or to be avoided and imprisoned.
April 7th, 2015 at 9:51 pm
[…] their admiration of other men on are not the same that women use for men. I outlined this a bit in Hysteria, but there is a uniquely female precondition of unqualified social proof women entertain for […]