One of the most endemic masculine pitfalls men have faced since the rise of feminine social primacy has been the belief that their ready displays of emotional vulnerability will make men more desirable mates for women.
In an era when men are raised from birth to be “in touch with their feminine sides”, and in touch with their emotions, we get generations of men trying to ‘out-emote’ each other as a mating strategy.
To the boys who grow into Beta men, the ready eagerness with which they’ll roll over and reveal their bellies to women comes from a conditioned belief that doing so will prove their emotional maturity and help them better identify with the women they mistakenly believe have a capacity to appreciate it.
What they don’t understand is that the voluntary exposing of ones most vulnerable elements isn’t the sign of strength that the Feminine Imperative has literally bred a belief of into these men.
A reflexive exposing of vulnerability is an act of submission, surrender and a capitulation to an evident superior. Dogs will roll over almost immediately when they acknowledge the superior status of another dog.
Vulnerability is not something to be brandished or proud of. While I do believe the insight and acknowledgement of your personal vulnerabilities is a necessary part of understanding oneself (particularly when it comes to unplugging oneself), it is not the source of attraction, and certainly not arousal, that most men believe it is for women.
From the comfort of the internet and polite company women will consider the ‘sounds-right’ appeal of male vulnerability with regard to what they’re supposed to be attracted to, but on an instinctual, subconscious level, women make a connection with the weakness that vulnerability represents.
A lot of men believe that trusting displays of vulnerability are mutually exclusive of displays of weakness, but what they ignore is that Hypergamy demands men that can shoulder the burden of performance. When a man openly broadcasts his vulnerableness he is, by definition, beginning from a position of weakness.
The problem with idealizing a position of strength is in thinking you’re already beginning from that strength and your magnanimous display of trusting vulnerability will be appreciated by a receptive woman. I strongly disagree with assertions like those of various Purple Pill ‘life coaches’ that open, upfront vulnerability is ever attractive to a woman.
The idea goes that if a man is truly outcome-independent with his being rejected by a woman, the first indicator of that independence is a freedom to be vulnerable with her. The approach then becomes one of “hey, I’m just gonna be my vulnerable self and if you’re not into me then I’m cool with that.”
The hope is that a woman will receive this approach as intended and find something refreshing about it, but the sad truth is that if this were the attraction key its promoters wish it was, every guy ‘just being himself‘ would be swimming in top shelf pussy. This is a central element to Beta Game – the hope that a man’s openness will set him apart from ‘other guys’ – it is common practice for men who believe in the equalist fantasy that women will rise above their feral natures when it comes to attraction, and base their sexual selection on his emotional intelligence.
The fact is that there is no such thing as outcome independence. The very act of your approaching a woman means you have made some effort to arrive at a favorable outcome with her. The fact that you’d believe a woman would even find your vulnerability attractive voids any pretense of outcome independence.
Hypergamy Doesn’t Care About Male Vulnerability
When I wrote Women in Love and the followups, Men in Love and Of Love and War, I described men’s concept of love as ‘idealistic’.
Naturally, simple minds exaggerated this into “men just want an impossible unconditional love” or “they want love like they think their mothers loved them.” For what it’s worth, I don’t believe any rational man with some insight ever expects an unconditional love, but I think it’s important to consider that a large part of what constitutes his concept of an idealized love revolves around being loved irrespective of how he performs for, or merits that love.
From Of Love and War:
We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.
We want to, so badly.
If we do, we soon are no longer able to.
The concept of men’s idealistic love, the love that makes him the true romantic, begins with a want of freedom from his burden of performance. It’s not founded in an absolute like unconditional love, but rather a love that isn’t dependent upon his performing well enough to assuage a woman’s Hypergamous concept of love.
Oh, the Humanity!
As the true romantics, and because of the performance demands of Hypergamy, there is a distinct want for men to believe that in so revealing their vulnerabilities they become more “human” – that if they expose their frailties to women some mask they believe they’re wearing comes off and (if she’s a mythical “quality woman“™) she’ll excuses his inadequacies to perform to the rigorous satisfaction of her Hypergamy.
The problems with this ‘strength in surrender’ hope are twofold.
First, the humanness he believes a woman will respect isn’t the attraction cue he believes it is. Ten minutes perusing blogs about the left-swiping habits of women using Tinder (or @Tinderfessions) is enough to verify that women aren’t desirous of the kind of “humanness” he’s been conditioned to believe women are receptive to.
In the attraction and arousal stages, women are far more concerned with a man’s capacity to entertain her by playing a role and presenting her with the perception of a male archetype she expects herself to be attracted to and aroused by. Hypergamy doesn’t care about how well you can express your humanness, and primarily because the humanness men believe they’re revealing in their vulnerability is itself a predesigned psychological construct of the Feminine Imperative.
Which brings us to the second problem with ‘strength in surrender’. The caricaturized preconception men have about their masculine identity is a construct of a man’s feminine-primary socialization.
The Masks the Feminine Imperative Makes Men Wear
To explain this second problem it’s important to grasp how men are expected to define their own masculine identities within a social order where the only correct definition of masculinity is prepared for men in a feminine-primary context.
What I mean by this is that the humanness that men wish to express in showing themselves as vulnerable is defined by feminine-primacy.
For the greater part of men’s upbringing and socialization they are taught that a conventional masculine identity is in fact a fundamentally male weakness that only women have a unique ‘cure’ for. It’s a widely accepted manosphere fact that over the past 60 or so years, conventional masculinity has become a point of ridicule, an anachronism, and every media form from then to now has made a concerted effort to parody and disqualify that masculinity. Men are portrayed as buffoons for attempting to accomplish female-specific roles, but also as “ridiculous men” for playing the conventional ‘macho’ role of masculinity. In both instances, the problems their inadequate maleness creates are only solved by the application of uniquely female talents and intuition.
Perhaps more damaging though is the effort the Feminine Imperative has made in convincing generations of men that masculinity and its expressions (of any kind) is an act, a front, not the real man behind the mask of masculinity that’s already been predetermined by his feminine-primary upbringing.
Women who lack any living experience of the male condition have the calculated temerity to define for men what they should consider manhood – from a feminine-primary context. This is why men’s preconception of vulnerability being a sign of strength is fundamentally flawed. Their concept of vulnerability stems from a feminine pretext.
Masculinity and vulnerability are defined by a female-correct concept of what should best serve the Feminine Imperative. That feminine defined masculinity (tough-guy ridiculousness) feeds the need for defining vulnerability as a strength – roll over, show your belly and capitulate to that feminine definition of masculinity – and the cycle perpetuates itself.
“The Mask You Live In” by director Jennifer Siebel Newsom (dual surname noted) is the perfect example of this perpetuation. You have a woman deciding for a larger public in a documentary what the male experience is and then solving the problem (i.e. the tired trope of men needing to get more in touch with their emotions) for men.
Men are ridiculous posers. Men are socialized to wear masks to hide what the Feminine Imperative has decided is their true natures (they’re really girls wearing boy masks). Men’s problems extend from their inability to properly emote like women, and once they are raised better (by women and men who comply with the Feminine Imperative) they can cease being “tough” and get along better with women. That’s the real strength that comes from men’s feminized concept of vulnerability – compliance with the Feminine Imperative.
Ironically Newsom is still oblivious to the fact that she can only create such a documentary in an environment of feminine-primacy. No man could produce this and be taken seriously in our contemporary social climate.
It’s indictment of the definers of what masculinity ought to be that they still characterize modern masculinity (based on the ‘feels’) as being problematic when for generations our feminine-primary social order has conditioned men to associate that masculinity in as feminine-beneficial a context as women would want.
They still rely on an outdated formula which presumes the male experience is inferior, a sham, in comparison to the female experience, and then presumes to know what the male experience really is and offers feminine-primary solutions for it.
From The 16 Commandments of Poon:
IV. Don’t play by her rules
If you allow a woman to make the rules she will resent you with a seething contempt even a rapist cannot inspire. The strongest woman and the most strident feminist wants to be led by, and to submit to, a more powerful man. Polarity is the core of a healthy loving relationship. She does not want the prerogative to walk all over you with her capricious demands and mercurial moods. Her emotions are a hurricane, her soul a saboteur. Think of yourself as a bulwark against her tempest. When she grasps for a pillar to steady herself against the whipping winds or yearns for an authority figure to foil her worst instincts, it is you who has to be there… strong, solid, unshakeable and immovable.
True vulnerability is not a value-added selling point for a man when it comes to approaching and attracting women. As with all things, your vulnerability is best discovered by a woman through demonstration –never explaining those vulnerabilities to her with the intent of appearing more human as the feminine would define it.
Women want a bulwark against their own emotionalism, not a co-equal male emoter whose emotionalism would compete with her own. The belief that male vulnerability is a strength is a slippery slope from misguided attraction to emotional codependency, to overt dependency on a woman to accommodate and compensate for the weaknesses that vulnerability really implies.
I know a lot of guys think that displays vulnerability from a position of Alpha dominance, or strength can be endearing for a woman when you’re engaged in an LTR, but I’m saying that’s only the case when the rare instance of vulnerability is unintentionally revealed. Vulnerability is not a strength, and especially not when a man deliberately reveals it with the expectation of a woman appreciating it as a strength.
At some point in any LTR you will show your vulnerable side, and there’s nothing wrong with that. What’s wrong is the overt attempt to parlay that vulnerability into a strength or virtue that you expect that woman to appreciate, feel endearment over or reciprocate with displays of her own vulnerability for.
A chink in the armor is a weakness best kept from view of those who expect you to perform your best in all situations. If that chink is revealed in performing your best, then it may be considered a strength for having overcome it while performing to your best potential. It is never a strength when you expect it to be appreciated as such.
November 26th, 2014 at 7:02 pm
@ jacklabear
“Why ‘let go’ of your LDR before getting another plate going?
She may not be a PAW (physically attractive woman), but as you pointed out she has a number of good qualities. Mathematically, the product of looks times personality/character in women tends to be a constant.
Also, being in a position of having a take it or leave it attitude about a relationship gives you leeway to experiment with Red Pill ideas and actions that you wouldn’t feel if you were in love with a hot babe. It is fertile ground for internalizing alpha.”
————————-
That’s a very good question. My answer is that she kept pressing for commitment, and started withdrawing sexually when I made it more clear that that wasn’t on the table, and that I want to date other girls while keeping things open with her.
I have a very hard time being what I perceive as “dishonest.” And this could be a remnant of my Blue Pill mindset. I don’t know how to keep things going with her if she’s made it clear that she wants a commitment, and if I’m not going to commit to her she isn’t going to stay available to me. Which would mean no more phone sex, no more visiting and meeting up for a week or two to fool around. No more anything unless I commit to her. And I’ve made it pretty clear that I don’t want to commit, that I do care about her, I’ve valued the time we’ve spent together, but I want to keep options open with her as well as with other girls.
I let it go at that point. It wasn’t a clean break. It’s just drifting away. What do I do if I’ve told her that I don’t want to be in a relationship with her, but that I don’t want to be in a relationship with any girls, and just want to play the field while I work on getting the rest of my life together — and she isn’t okay with that?
I’m unaware if I’m slipping up frame-wise, or have reverted to a blue pill mindset without realizing it, by being too honest and upfront. I don’t like feeling like I’m “hiding” anything or being “dishonest,” although I never told her about that girl I’d hooked up with. She did tell me after all that if I did fool around with any girls to not tell her, so I took that as a green light.
But yeah. It’s basically down to the fact that she’s 8 years older than me, is serious about committing, wants a family, and I’m not up for that, although I do care about her and I do value the time we’ve spent together, and the connection we’ve developed. I’m just only willing to offer so much and it’s not what she wants. So I figured I had to let it go.
The only thing that bothers me is her personality and the time we’ve shared is valuable to me, and I really just want to fuck other girls. I don’t want to be in a relationship. If I was in one I’d probably want to be with her, although the harsh reality for me to face is that I’m embarrassed to be seen in public with her. She came over my house once and we were having dinner with my parents and my parents’ friends and it was really awkward.
Emotionally I’m over it. I’m not particularly bothered by the idea of never talking to her again, although I’d prefer it didn’t end that way. Just from a purely logical standpoint and aspiring Red Pill/Alpha perspective, I’m at a loss for what my best option would be at this point.
November 26th, 2014 at 7:13 pm
@ Glenn
I’m definitely glad you’ve shared what you have here. One thing that might help you is to associate completely with all the rage/anger/sadness/everything else you feel, and as soon as you have it, imagine the feeling you get of being supported here, and having this place to share your vulnerabilities without fear of being judged.
Go into the bad feeling and memories — associate to them — then switch to right here and now, typing on your computer and posting comments on a place on the Internet where your voice can actually be heard. And also benefits people in similar situations to you, people, I’m sure, that we’ll never hear about. The majority of people who read this blog are lurkers from god knows where in the world. Like everywhere else on the Internet. You may have no idea of the help you’re providing for other people who haven’t had the capacity to share their experiences like you’ve had. It gives silent people a voice to relate to. It helps a lot.
I know you’ve used the Sedona Method. I think of it as similar to that. But instead of asking the question of whether or not you’d let it go, simply tune into a better feeling.
It doesn’t make everything go away. But if you associate fully to this present moment where you ARE receiving at least some support, and freedom of expression and *acceptance* — it doesn’t undo anything that was done to you, but there is a safe space here for men like you and me — a male space — that is definitely valuable. I don’t know how long I’ll be on this site but whenever I leave, I can definitely imagine myself looking back on this site fondly. I’ve grown a lot and the connections I’ve made here, even though it’s through anonymous comments, have been deeper than almost all of the connections I’ve had with people in person.
There are some things that I just can’t share with people in person. I can’t bring myself to say it. But I can type it anonymously. And on a blog like this it’s perfect. We get female commenters once in a while, and I agree with Rollo’s position on not censoring anything. They always end up leaving anyway when shit gets real and they realize that we’re right — and the only solace we have for this stuff is an all-male space with like-minded people who can relate to what we’ve experienced.
I’ve been listening to this a lot lately. Mayfield recorded this line by line after being paralyzed from the neck down after a stage light fell on him. Women might look at this as whining or complaining but the depth of this song is just inexplicable.
Kicking back and just chilling out to this every now and then soothes my nerves. You may or may not like this one but I definitely think you could appreciate it.
November 26th, 2014 at 7:27 pm
@Softek
“Telling us that “men just want closeness” — dressing it up in this pseudo blanket of warmth and intimacy and sensitivity, when in reality that whole model of thinking is what has brainwashed so many boys into growing into degenerate, self-effacing, self-hating, sex starved and frustrated men who are still waiting for their Promised Land of reciprocated female intimacy for everything they’ve suffered through.”
Nailed it. Poetry. Bravo!!
November 26th, 2014 at 7:28 pm
Deti, he’ll ruin the entire work if he marries Don off to a triumphant Peggy. I could see them becoming business partners in a new firm, successfully. Emasculating Don through his marrying a 6 would be too much. Peggy needs to marry an ironic CUNY prof with a beard and a taste for Walter Benjamin. Don needs to connect with Harvey Weinstein’s ex-.
***
One of my astonishments is how our popular culture presents so very many, admired masculine archetypes, irresistible and successful in their intersexual lives — and yet many of us *still* dropped the blue pill each morning with our coffee. That may be the proper measure of our FI society: we, and our women, long for another Steve McQueen movie. We might evince leadership and control at work, but at home we’re blind for decades to the social conditioning — and act like Woody Allen, running our mouths about our infirmities and insecurities.
Legends of the Fall was a very, very successful movie and Anthony Hopkins (and Pitt, when we weren’t watching him weep etc. during the romantic frames) is true Alpha. For some reason, guys like me could(try to) be Hopkins or McQueen at the office and with the children, but only the beta butt-boy at home with the spouse. That’s seriously effective social conditioning.
I think the optimistic take is that women want what they want, and it’s not Pajama Boy, so if we’re cool with showing and not telling, they stick around. Most of my girlfriends are SIWs, rich with feminist cant, and I just ignore it and press on — and I have never had the options that I have today. They can worry about the cognitive dissonance, I’m done evangelizing for the equality that women say they want. When we tell a woman to walk their own talk, we might as well tell her she has all the sexual appeal of Roseanne Barr. Probably not a good idea, unless one is armed.
Example: I have a friend, Ph.D/MBA, single mom. She actually showed me the “Mask You Live In” video that Rollo linked, describing how she was hoping her young men would turn out. I laughed and said, “Don’t you want them to get laid and work a real job someday?” With her academic profile, and SIW politics, of course this was a red cape to an angry bull(ette), and she wanted to fight about it. I was far enough along in my education to laugh further and change the subject. I did have a good time that evening.
Had I given her the furrowed brow and a sympathetic disquisition on the importance of being sensitive, my value to her, I suspect, would have crashed. (As I recall, I fucked her in the car in Georgetown later that night.) I thought of her today because, although I haven’t spoken with her in three months, this morning — buh-bing — I get the SIW travel selfies from hell, wondering what my Christmas plans are, and isn’t she looking good at Zermatt? (Zermatt has a lot of early season snow, too, it seems.)
Anyway, it’s a lot like our current week’s political wrangling over Ferguson. A lot of rich, educated, white and supremely protected “sensitive” people are just fine with rioting. They don’t ask themselves, as a result, why they’re not moving to a broken town riven with racial hatred and violence. They just know what’s right, so why don’t we? The demography of privilege and feminist primacy admits no reality. But for some reason they keep texting me from the other side of the world while I run a snowblower in a canvas coat in the upper midwest, digging my papers out of the snow and celebrating the lock-outs on my old truck. Show do not tell, is what I write down on my cue card before every important date.
***
I think a lot of guys would enjoy The Man Who Gave Up His Name, and hope a few of them buy it.
November 26th, 2014 at 8:02 pm
Softek,
“I have a very hard time being what I perceive as “dishonest.””
I understand. Me too. But…
Ok, you two have different goals. She is of course free to find a man willing to raise a family with her. Does that mean while she is doing that she can’t come see you now and then for nookie and the other good things you share? After all, she said she doesn’t want to know about the others, so you don’t need to discuss it with her.
It seems like you could just let her stop seeing you if that’s what she wants. No need to disqualify your own self.
Maybe you are shielding your own self from the temptation to commit to her? You want to flex your growing RP wings?
Speaking of committing to a relationship, there is a relationship psychologist called David Schnarch who has a brilliant essay called “Should You Commit to Your Relationship?”
Basically, he says that the only commitment a person can make that is of any value to their partner is a commitment they make to their own self to be the best person they can be. You can punish your partner for leaving, but you can’t make them stay. Pushing for ‘security’ in a relationship is often done so that a person can get away with letting themselves become unappealing. It doesn’t work.
Oddly, the original essay seems to have been scrubbed from the web. The FI at work, no doubt. But I kept a copy for myself, so as a public service I post it below:
Should You Commit to Your Relationship?
By Dr. David Schnarch
Is it important to make a commitment to your relationship or your partner? And if so, why? What does ‘making a commitment’ really involve or accomplish? Most couples struggle over issues of commitment, but few bother to consider two crucial questions: “Commitment to whom?” and “Commitment about what?”
No doubt I’ve alienated readers who have ended a relationship over a partner’s “inability” to make (or keep) a commitment. These questions raise difficult issues we’d often rather ignore. “Commitment phobic” readers, on the other hand, may welcome this inquiry–not because they necessarily understand questions of “commitment to whom about what,” but rather, because more questions may offer more time to avoid hard decisions. Examining what ‘making a commitment’ means serves everyone’s interests because the answers greatly affect personal happiness, and relationship satisfaction and stability.
EXAMINE MOTIVES
It’s not usually the best in us that pushes for a commitment from our partner, and the same holds true for the part of us that resists making one. Lots of people demand a commitment from their partner because they want some form of “security,” be it financial, legal, or emotional. Protection from personal insecurities, inadequacies, and doubts tends to be the most common purpose and the least common outcome.
“No exit” contracts are not enforceable (you can punish your partner for leaving, but you can’t make them stay). Commitments extracted to reduce vulnerabilities and soothe fears of rejection only pander to our limitations. So does some people’s reflexive refusal to fully partake in their current relationship for fear of missing something “better” elsewhere.
UNCONDITIONAL COMMITMENT
There are those commitment-seekers to whom commitment means “You promise to take me any way I am–even when I refuse to confront my limitations that negatively impact you.” If this is you, “no commitment” from your partner makes you feel insecure; “commitment” produces sloth. For some, “getting a commitment” means one partner must accommodate the other’s insecurities, which can result in a shift in the relationship from monogamy to celibacy–a commitment they know their partner has no desire to make.
GRAY AREAS
People vary greatly in the commitments they want to receive or make. Monogamy?–with or without a sex frequency/quality clause? Till death do us part?–are natural causes of death required? Honor and respect?–even when your partner acts without integrity? Obey?–are we setting up a benevolent dictatorship, communism, or social responsibility in a democracy? In all fairness, commitment-phobics can be equally totalitarian while masquerading as champions of freedom, rugged individualism, and open relationships.
The real question isn’t commitment vs. no commitment, it’s “commitment to whom about what?” Many couples have “difficulty with commitment” because they presume the important commitment issue is something one partner gives to the other (or both make to each other). They think commitment involves restricting their own personal freedom or options in ways that benefit their partner.
In practice, this creates a mutual deprivation pact: It makes your partner your jailer because they hold your commitment–which now constrains you. The key to successful emotionally committed relationships is you must become your own “keeper,” a responsible enforcer of your own commitments–a job we readily relinquish to our partner and then complain how poorly they do it.
THE COMMITMENT THAT COUNTS
If monogamy, relationship longevity, and long-term passion are your goals, the most important commitment is the one you make to yourself. Your partner’s only real security with you is knowing that you don’t lie to yourself or violate your own integrity. Without that, commitments made to your partner are worthless.
Perceived “commitments” made to each other are usually null and void when one partner feels the other has defaulted on the deal. These commitments encourage reciprocal withholding and retaliatory indiscretions. Commitments made to yourself still apply even when your partner violates himself/herself or treats you unfairly. That doesn’t mean you tolerate your partner’s behavior, regardless. It means you don’t tolerate or excuse your own poor behavior when your partner treats you poorly.
When we value the commitments our partner makes to himself/herself, we love him/her the way he/she is. When we extract commitments from him/her, we seek promises that we think he/she doesn’t really want to make. Only a fool or a perpetual victim relies on commitments begrudgingly made by their partner.
Two partners who make parallel unilateral commitments to themselves always produce a stronger relationship than those who make reciprocal quid pro quo promises to each other. Extracting commitments, like getting your partner to love you, is a fruitless task that destroys love and romance. Real commitment, like love, involves willing investment in our current life, frequently re-evaluated and reaffirmed, which helps transcend the frustrations and limitations of human relationships.
Dr. David Schnarch brings a learned and compassionate voice to the Third Age Community’s discussion of love, passion, and sex and intimacy in marriage and other emotionally-committed relationships. A clinical psychologist with 20 years’ experience providing therapy to couples, Dr. Schnarch is one of the nation’s leading sex therapists and the author of two books, “Passionate Marriage,” for lay persons and “The Sexual Crucible,” a landmark work for practitioners. He holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology from Michigan State University and, as professor of urology at Louisiana State University Medical Center from 1981 to 1995, Dr. Schnarch trained medical doctors in the communication skills appropriate to screening patients with sexual dysfunction.
His landmark contributions to the field of sex therapy and couples counseling are drawn directly from the busy practice which he and his wife, Dr. Ruth Morehouse, also a clinical psychologist, pursue at their clinic, the Marriage and Family Health Center in Evergreen, Colorado. In workshops across the country, Dr. Morehouse and Dr. Schnarch counsel couples who wish to take advantage of what Dr. Schnarch calls “the people-growing machinery of marriage.” This unique approach to couples counseling, which includes innovative practices like “eyes-open sex,” has been recognized as a milestone at the leading edge of marriage and family therapy. Best of all, Dr. Schnarch recognizes that men and women become better lovers as they mature. Here’s an interview that explains Dr. Schnarch’s point of view on sex in maturity.
November 26th, 2014 at 8:17 pm
“One of my astonishments is how our popular culture presents so very many, admired masculine archetypes, irresistible and successful in their intersexual lives — and yet many of us *still* dropped the blue pill each morning with our coffee.”
There were a few episodes where Don Draper got seriously sexually dominant on the neighbor he was poking. But after a while, she dumped him because of it.
Let that be a lesson for all you men who think being dominant with a woman is a good idea!
The FI has a long reach.
November 26th, 2014 at 9:16 pm
The ultimate version of Rollo’s take on men loving fully and romantically!
November 26th, 2014 at 9:17 pm
@ jacklabear
Great essay, thanks a million for sharing. This is very valuable stuff.
“Does that mean while she is doing that she can’t come see you now and then for nookie and the other good things you share?”
I tried to explain to her that my lack of exclusive commitment to her didn’t devalue all the good things we shared. One major disadvantage I’m working on remedying is I still live with my parents. The nearest hotels are in the city, and I live right near one of the top 10 most violent cities in the country. Last time she visited I would go see her there but it makes me extremely uncomfortable, I always get confronted by people when I drive through there (it’s just how it is) and I’d rather not deal with it.
So my parents not being okay with her staying at our house was a huge problem. The last time I saw her was around 3 or 4 years ago. We’ve kept in touch frequently since then but I couldn’t figure out any way for her to visit and hook up with me, despite both of us wanting to.
“Maybe you are shielding your own self from the temptation to commit to her? You want to flex your growing RP wings?”
Absolutely. A big part of that is the uncomfortable realization of the situation I’m in: living with my parents. I’ve been working a dead end job for 4 years and it isn’t enough to support myself independently. I’ve been a coward, running away from using my talents to support myself because I had no self confidence.
I’m slowly starting to give guitar lessons, I’ve made business cards for doing repairs and custom building, have gotten work in sporadically and am trying to build a reputation and get a repeat customer base going. I’ve saved money from work over the years to invest in tools and I’ve taken lots of time to develop my skills while I’m not at my job opening boxes, building furniture and loading shelves and tables with merchandise and sofas and bureaus.
My ideal lifestyle might be, and which I’m fully capable of doing:
-Repairing guitars and doing custom building
-Playing gigs
-Teaching music lessons
-Taking on clients for Faster EFT, in-person and over the phone/Skype
-Keeping up with all my independent studying of nutrition, working out, doing other things I like, and getting laid on a regular basis
But working my dead end job, and limiting myself so severely, and having almost zero experience with girls outside of this one — MAJOR reason I don’t want to commit.
I feel like I don’t even have a life. Let alone know what it’s like to live one and actually enjoy myself. I have some major deficiencies I need to start working on, and I am doing it.
My parents don’t want me living here anymore, but I don’t have any friends I can room with or any girls to room with or move in with. So the hardest part about flexing my RP wings is realizing that I have to be independent. Can’t be afraid of leaving home and going out into the world on my own. I hate facing that reality but it’s probably one of the number one things holding me back. “Hey, want to come back to my dad’s house” isn’t exactly what I imagine saying to a girl I want to hook up with.
I don’t think my parents are going to kick me out just yet, but I’ve been trying to make more money and it just scares the hell out of me to think that as isolated as I am now, when I go out on my own I’m REALLY going to be alone. Even though my parents basically never talk to me at all, they’re still in the house, you know.
I really hate writing this, and for all the openness I’ve expressed on here — this is the one thing I don’t want anyone to know, which signals to me that it’s a key thing I have to work through and move beyond.
November 26th, 2014 at 9:52 pm
@Softek re: “Was the tremendous gap in SMV responsible for a lot of our relationship dynamics?”
Indubitably. She was exhibiting the correct behavior, the desired behavior, because that was all she had to offer. The lesson here, going forward, is that women DO know how to act right so EVERY time they aren’t acting right it is because of their being deliberately malicious, NOT ignorant, by refusing to do what they know you want. EVERY time.
@JF. Just read this comment from early in the thread. This is exactly correct. Women know they are being malicious and our making the choice to be this way. You can argue that it’s in their nature to choose the most hypergamous route in every situation depending on their SMV but it is still a choice in that they ARE capable of choosing otherwise. They are capable of sucking it up and letting go of the little things (and men being vulnerable IS a little thing in the grand scheme of things) if their immediate situation or survival depends on it. Big mistake in men giving women economic freedom IMO. The end result being that women can blow up these petty little things like a man showing vulnerability and literally equate it to a natural disaster or WROL situation. This is how fucking spoiled they have become and it’s so dangerous. The apex fallacy says that women will always see that which is above them and they are capable of being sweet and submissive AND happy when they are kept at their proper place at the bottom and made to feel shame (or worse). Women have been given a tremendous amount of freedom and power and they have shown they cannot be responsible with it. They are all too willingly to throw men in the trash to try and satisfy their never ending hypergamy requirements which is why men as a group have to become the chauvinists the feminists are looking for. That is the only solution. The line from Kipling’s FOTS is the most powerful warning message I have ever read and I’ve quoted it before.
“So it cames that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands To some God of Abstract Justice — which no woman understands”.
November 26th, 2014 at 10:02 pm
The real issue here, at least if we dig a bit deeper beyond what vulnerability results in.. is how men today are taught about their experience of emotion- which connects with Rollos observations of how the FI makes the female experience the default correct experience.
As someone who grew up with alot of problems, I obviously developed some emotional/psychological issues. For most of my life I have tried to deal with them the way we are taught by the FI- feeling my feelings, allowing them to be, getting in touch with them.etc etc a nausea.
What I finally came to is that this is a very feminine approach to emotions which is why I had the experience I had earlier spoken about here with my ex- my breakdown etc after some personal tragedies.
Here is what I learned, and I think it applies across the board to men.
Men and women are hardwired to deal with emotional experiences in a way that makes them effective and confirms their biology. A woman needs to “feel her feelings”, she needs to “talk them out” she needs to submerse herself in them because her mental biology is one of submission, as such she must submit to her emotions… and this leaves her feeling better, the way she feels better submitting to a man.. it is cathartic to her. A man who does these things works against himself and his biology and ends up feeling worse. Why:
A mans biology is geared towards dominating, as such , when he submits to his feelings her is practicing submission. He ends up feeling emasculated as well as still having the original pain amplified.. A man must dominate his feelings- notice this is not denial. But things such as emotional distancing, compartmentalization, and externalizing is what will bring him catharsis. He is in sync with his mental biology this way.
The FI, in enforcing and training men to deal with their emotions and hurts in the modern feminine way is literaly destroying the man from within.. it becomes a battlles withing the self that instead of making more fully himself in line with his biology, instead tears him away from his nature. In dealing with a crisis, or painful event, the burden is DOUBLED by the FI’s definition of “healthy” emotional intelligence.
I haven’t said anything here, but I have been working on a book about this stuff as it pertains to men… I truly think it is that important. What men need to know about their psychology and the damage being done to them is driving men to suicide and despair- It’s not a book about game, or red pill. but about male psychology, especially dealing with trauma and pain.
I have been on a mission healing myself from very deep wounds for many years now, and the damage done to me by following the modern accepted psychological FI defined treatments made me worse.
And that is my goal with this small book- it has to be a two step process, first undoing the myths surrounding how men really should deal with emotional pain and health- deprogramming the FI, so to speak, as far as commonly accepted dealing strategies, then and only then, can the man then use his life experience as a way to build his natural biological imperative to practice dominance. Real exercises that allow him to practice compartmentalization, externalization and objective dialectics.
What I have learned so far has been life changing for him. Between that and RP/Game, I am feeling more liberated, powerful and clearer than I ever have in my life.
When Rollo says RP saves lives, it is very much the truth. I’m hoping to give something back.What is being done to men, and kids especially is not just cringe inducing, it is fucking enraging.
November 26th, 2014 at 10:24 pm
Glenn
November 26th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
Well thank you very much. It is good to be in the company of MEN. And helping to raise others to that status is one of my great joys.
Given the coming difficulties from having a woman disguised as a man leading the country/world for the last 6 years, we are going to need quite a few good men.
Just remember the Marines, “No better friend. No worse enemy.”
The currency of women is lies. The currency of MEN is truth.
November 26th, 2014 at 10:36 pm
Glenn
November 26th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
I’m going to try the Faster EFT mentioned by Softek since I have PTSD issues myself.
=================
What pisses me off to this day is the War On Drug Users who are mostly suffering from PTSD with heroin users having more horrific cases than the pot users. What woke me up to all this was the finding of Dr. Lonny Shavelson who found that 70% of female heroin users had been sexually molested in childhood.
We have a pain problem and call it “addiction” People in chronic pain chronically take pain relievers. That is all there is. No pain? No addiction. I could go into more detail having studied it extensively. But this is not the place.
November 26th, 2014 at 10:57 pm
I was discussing things with the first mate after her latest outburst (no woman can be steady). She has two personalities. One I call Ms Pain (you can imagine – lots of pain for her and a fair amount for me). And another I call Crystal which is totally like Dudley Do Right’s girlfriend Nell (complete hero worship and submission – and dare I add happiness if she can obtain the object of her desire).
She told me it was a package deal and I had to want them both. I told her, “No”. I’m not interested in Ms Pain at all. She can put Ms Pain away and submit or forget any connection between us.
I told her further that she would within a few days drop Ms. Pain and come to me begging to be submissive. You could see her wilt. She knew it was true. I WILL be making her beg for what Ms. Pain hates. It is how I weaken Ms. Pain. Being verbal creatures you HAVE to make them say it out loud. A shake of the head is insufficient.
And of course at the next outburst I have a tool. “You begged for it.”
As a number of commenters have noted. It is like training a dog (well a cat actually).
At this point she does not like her nature (submissiveness makes her happy) but she can’t deny it.
November 26th, 2014 at 11:09 pm
zdr01dz brings up an important albeit too-common truth “Essentially he must be superior to her in every way. If he is not superior she will not be attracted to him.”
I think it is only *partly* hypergamy per se that is driving the FI demand that the “assortative match” of an ordinary woman be an extraordinary man. As we’ve discussed, him being less than some masculine ideal, especially in the areas of vulnerability or weakness, makes him more *effeminate* in her eyes. So even women see ordinary women as naturally much worse than ordinary men, but they still demand top men anyway.
November 26th, 2014 at 11:11 pm
When nagging, which is always done to try to provoke a negative reaction from the man, the woman strangely gets no satisfaction from getting the reaction. In fact, she always gets worse, and *always* blames the man for bothering to react negatively.
November 26th, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Rollo,
When you think about it, we are so few who understand. Would you say we are 0.01% or are there more?
And if so, please give a percent. It’s important to know the company you keep.
November 26th, 2014 at 11:53 pm
Re: Ferguson,
Yes. Rioting is not the answer to the problems faced by Blacks. But to dismiss those problems as either imaginary or self inflicted is to avoid seeing the whole picture. So let me widen the frame by quoting one of Nixon’s henchmen.
“Look, we understood we couldn’t make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue…that we couldn’t resist it.” – John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.
If you look at the history of that Prohibition it was racist top to bottom beginning to end. We have of late white washed it with “science”. But the science was not a look for truth but for evidence to continue the covert racism. Almost 100% of the science was bad.
A typical example: a “scientist” named Heath asphyxiated monkeys by delivering smoke to them deprived of oxygen. He then claimed “the smoke can kill you”. Debunked years later.
And it continues. As does selective enforcement on the young, the poor, and the people of color. By design. Yes. There are all kinds of thing you can point out to “prove” that there is something else driving the way things are done. But in the end the enforcers get the covert message. “Go after THEM, not them.” THEY commit the crimes.
Well I have said too much on this OT subject. Probably because my best friend is Black. Very bright guy. Into Game and computer programming down at the bit level. We have been friends for 37 years. So I get a different view than most “white” people
November 27th, 2014 at 12:08 am
Nathan
November 26th, 2014 at 11:43 pm
Very few are at Rollo’s level. But that is not too important. There was only one Einstein. Today there are millions with a deep enough understanding of what he started. All our electronics infrastructure is built on it.
So apply the 80/20 rule. About 20% of all men have enough Game to make them interesting to women.
It is my opinion that raising that to 25% would start a revolution. Why? Because past about 20% you are getting men who are not naturals but trained. And the newly converted are the most zealous.
I have mentioned plenty of times that I got the rudiments of Game from the first GF at age 18 – back in ’62. So I am not having an epiphany. It is old hat. I come here for refinement and sharing not revelation.
But those who have lived Blue Pill until recently? They are on fire.
November 27th, 2014 at 12:33 am
I agree. Its a Godsend
November 27th, 2014 at 12:37 am
After all, she said she doesn’t want to know about the others, so you don’t need to discuss it with her.
I disagree.
You must not discuss it with her. But casual mentions along along with hints of “you can be replaced” will make her more interested in you.
The best way to keep one woman is to have two.
Note: I have said something like this to all my sons – in front of the first mate. Who just giggles – but doesn’t deny it.
November 27th, 2014 at 12:49 am
M. Simon nice point about Einstein
However, I live among blacks… its their own damn fault. They need their own nation and its time for them to sink or swim on their own
I must be one of the three people who haven’t seen mad men…. now I finally feel like a special snow flake
November 27th, 2014 at 6:32 am
sfcton
November 27th, 2014 at 12:49 am
Thanks!
====
I understand to some extent. Neither my friend – nor I will venture into “the zone” anymore. Still, I’d like to see what their culture looks like 20 years after the end of Prohibition.
Italians got quite a reputation from that first Prohibition. More as a result of where enforcement was focused as opposed to innate characteristics.
And then there is the genetic bias towards motor skills vs planning ahead (for winter). Our friends on the left prefer their “blank slate” to reality. But DNA biases each of us. There is a certain area in Africa where all the best long distance runners come from.
And as a a group Jews ARE smarter than average. As are the Chinese.
====
Depending on where you work I understand you have to keep your head low. I think you might find Retired Detective Howard Wooldridge of interest. He is very liberty minded. He and I correspond regularly. He blogs. Look him up.
November 27th, 2014 at 6:51 am
Glenn
November 26th, 2014 at 6:28 pm
I just ran across a promo video for Fast EFT and NLP.
https://www.youtube.com/user/HealingMagic
That brought to mind something I had forgotten – how effective NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) is. I use it on the first mate all the time. I give her phrases to repeat. “Mantra” is another name for it. And of course I use it on myself if there is a direction I want to head in that meets internal resistance.
Lily’s “Programming and Meta Programming the Human Biocomputer” is also of some use. It may be out of print.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:00 am
The women commenters have uniformly claimed to be “vulnerable” to men behaving lowly, powerless, disappointed; it makes the women want to slap the men. This is a weakness of women; an Achilles’ heel; something they claim is inborn and they claim they can’t help feeling obnoxiously bitchy towards a weak man who needs help; similar to females killing the runts of their own litters.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:09 am
EMDR is another trauma-treatment methodology that was formerly shunned by the medical/psychological establishment, but is now gaining grudging respect owing to good outcomes. A buddy uses it with sexual abuse victims, and he’s establishment (runs a hospital for criminal sex offenders).
It’s not very pleasant though, as it involves returning *directly* to experiences that have been assiduously suppressed for years or decades.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_movement_desensitization_and_reprocessing
November 27th, 2014 at 9:13 am
Women obviously think that their major weapon formed against a man is to tell him “you are not in the category of “man”.” I for one happen to be invulnerable to that denial of my ‘manity. In fact I feel almost victorious when women think it should work against me, and that they’re perturbed enough to bother trying it out. I also wear my nerd badge proudly; I am practically the archetype, the poster child, or rather cover model/centerfold of Boomer nerd. I also feel almost victorious when accused of being too heatedly involved/hyperfocused, or too controlling/bossy.
But I think I have been overly sensitive to in real life when accused of impoliteness/bitchiness/coldness.
What are some other men’s perceptions of their own vulnerabilities?
November 27th, 2014 at 9:27 am
JF12, perhaps (the contempt is certainly real).
But don’t you also think that there is a competitive aspect to them? As though a man, venting or whining or expressing weakness, is competing for airtime? As though the very fact of having “feelings” is proprietary to the woman? So if a man betrays himself and his feelings, he not only threatens the stability and safety of the couple, which destroys his appeal as a man. He also is stealing from a woman’s perceived emotional privileges. It’s just another Jenny Holzer “Protect me from what I want” moment.
In this respect I think that all of the indoctrination we’ve received on “getting in touch with our emotions” is really just post-feminist window-dressing for a new entitlement women have claimed. Popularly, this entitlement is expressed in the “If you can’t take me at my worst you don’t deserve me at my best” trope. They’re demanding that we have emotions and feelings and long-winded discussions — in order to be a new age sensitive man — but loathe the competition for attention if we comply.
One of my grandmothers had a brutal existence on the farm in the depression, with my biological grandfather who was a drunk, a failure, and the kind of guy who would lock my 3 year-old mother into a closet and walk into town to drink. After she divorced him (which just didn’t happen) she moved my mother into a rooming house next to the train tracks, and worked three jobs to stay alive, eventually putting herself into the hospital with simple exhaustion and malnutrition. The doctor told her the only ‘cure’ he had on offer was for her to marry a German widower with a healthy farm (we are Norwegian background, and the communities were still separate with even third-generation farm communities retaining their European languages) who had four children who needed a caretaker. My grandmother never once, in my presence, complained about any aspect of her life and loveless marriage. That simply is beyond the pale today, in a grievance-celebrating society that assigns greater, not lower, social status to “victims.”
Anyway, my take on women simultaneously demanding and then being revolted by male vulnerability is that it’s also a competitive response. In truth, no relationship can survive two people wallowing in their disappointments and weaknesses, so there is some unacknowledged logic to it. We’re just supposed to be big enough to keep the airplane on course and on schedule while the first officer has her periodic meltdowns.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:27 am
I notice, reading around the past couple of days, that the manosphere has not yet picked up on this report:
Perilloux, C. & Kurzban, R. (2014). Do men overperceive women’s sexual interest? Psychological Science, DOI: 10.1177/0956797614555727
http://pss.sagepub.com/content/early/2014/11/20/0956797614555727?papetoc
Perilloux and Kurzban perform a sequence of experiments firmly proving that
1. women *deliberately* underreport their own sexual interest
2. men *correctly* know that they women are lying
3. the men feel forced to behave as if the women are telling the truth
Basically, the men are right and have always been right (all previous studies can be reinterpreted as men being “accurate in perceiving and reporting women’s sexual intentions and that men might be managing errors through biased behavior rather than biased beliefs”) and the women are wrong and have always been wrong.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:29 am
@ M Simon
Robert’s given seminars at Habilitat in Hawaii, a long-term residential rehab center for people with substance abuse addictions.
Faster EFT integrates NLP into its framework, which is one of the great things about it. I’m slowly working on becoming a Faster EFT practitioner, and two books that go along with the training package are “The User’s Manual for the Brain, Volume 1,” (‘the complete manual for neuro-linguistic programming practitioner certification’) and “Monsters and Magical Sticks: There’s No Such Thing as Hypnosis?”
The latter is an especially accessible and entertaining read, and I personally found it very enlightening and helpful for dealing with my issues.
Chapter 4 in the NLP book is about the NLP Presuppositions, which Robert borrowed a lot from in his creation of Faster EFT.
You can learn how to do Faster EFT simply through watching the videos on the HealingMagic channel. But having those two books and referring to them helps to explain the framework of Faster EFT.
Robert calls his method “De-fractionation” — going after the bits and pieces, i.e., all the internal processes and representations. Following the trail: release negative emotions attached to this bad memory, then when another bad memory comes up related to it, release those emotions, and keep following it back.
For example, I was tapping on myself about my fear of making appointments with anyone – dentist, doctors, dermatologist, etc., even calling in to work. I would have panic attacks and would just avoid answering the phone when they called, and would never make appointments even if I was having problems I really needed help with.
As I was tapping on myself using Faster EFT, I just used that method: “How do you know?” I felt the tightness in my chest, the panic spreading throughout my body, etc. As I kept asking “How do you know?” and just kept releasing emotions, eventually I got back to a memory I’d completely forgotten about:
Being molested at a physical by a doctor when I was a kid. I have no idea how I forgot that happened, probably because my parents didn’t believe me and I never told anyone about it after that. But all of a sudden I had an answer to why I haven’t been to a physical in God knows how many years, and it also helped to explain my near phobia of authority figures and isolating myself from them as much as possible. I also had a lot of experiences in mental hospitals with bad doctors and therapists that compounded and complicated the problem.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:33 am
@BV re: “But don’t you also think that there is a competitive aspect to them? As though a man, venting or whining or expressing weakness, is competing for airtime? As though the very fact of having “feelings” is proprietary to the woman?”
Yes, very much so. To each woman, every other woman is either part of the thundering herd/tribe, or a outgroup Samaritan to be robben and beaten and left for dead. So maybe women think that by berating a man for usurping the woman’s role of feewings, they are ensuring he will either
(1) Woman up and line up in the herd, (2) Man up and stop having feelings. But in reality all that women are doing is robbing and beating and killing the man by berating him.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:38 am
Another in my poorly labeled catalog of women’s vulnerabilties.
10. Women are hypersensitive to being accused of being ruthless runt-killers. They will always claim it was a mercy killing.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:40 am
@ Buena Vista
“It’s not very pleasant though, as it involves returning *directly* to experiences that have been assiduously suppressed for years or decades.”
This is exactly what Faster EFT does. One of the sayings is “Memories buried alive never die. They just show up in a bigger pair of shoes.”
In sessions I’ve seen of him working on people, he reminds them that “the bigger they can make it, the faster it’s going to go.” The general structure is to ask them how they know they have the problem — what are they feeling, what pictures are they seeing in their mind, what are they remembering — see how much it’s bothering them on a scale of 0-10, with 10 being the worst, seeing if they can make it a 10 if it’s not a 10, and once they fully associate to it and magnify it — that’s when you tap.
It’s a repeated process using that structure. Fully associate to the problem, ‘trance break’ out of the problem, go back into the problem, get back out, until it’s gone. Robert calls this “De-fractionation.”
I would work with a practitioner if I wasn’t so stubborn. I haven’t yet. I’ve worked on myself and have worked on other people. More recently I went into a room I used to hide as a kid. I felt like I was right back as a kid again. I felt like I was drugged. Completely dissociated, out in the stratosphere. I used to hide in that room under the stairs curled up in a ball in the darkness for hours on end, completely silent.
I don’t think you physically have to go back anywhere — the deal is we can close our eyes and associate to it in our minds. But that did open some floodgates for me to physically go back there. But I reminded myself I’m an adult now, and I have skills now — so I sat there in the darkness, associated to all those memories, and started releasing and letting them go using Faster EFT. It was quite an experience. The end result was feeling like I was really here right now: really the age I am now, that that memory is really in the past, instead of replaying over and over again.
I have had chronic problems with dissociation due to abuse from my childhood. As painful as it is, directly revisiting those memories and all the emotions with them and working through them has helped me more than anything else.
The deal is you need to have the skills. Whether it’s Faster EFT or something else — you need something to pull you out of it. We avoid and suppress things because we aren’t born with the skills to deal with them directly. And then when you go into the pain, it’s too much, so naturally we run away from it. This is why I got into drinking and cutting myself and being suicidal, and why other people get into drugs and other things.
The “Rat Park” study was especially great. It was about drug addiction. Rats that were force-addicted to drugs actually VOLUNTARILY went through withdrawal, when presented with the opportunity to be a part of a healthy rat community.
The rats that did nothing to stop their addiction and willingly continued it were the rats that were held in isolation cells. Like most lab rats are. The study definitely raised a lot of questions about drug addictions.
I think that the emotions and memories that lead us to addictions for comfort are the main driving force of addictions, as opposed to the addictive substances themselves. Naturally the addictive substances themselves have a huge physiological effect on their own, and create their own problems, but that being said, if people don’t know how to deal with the pain that’s driving them to have problems, they will just go from one thing to another.
For me it was a cycle of binge drinking, cutting myself, being suicidal, and going on excessive amounts of porn and masturbating excessively. If I took a break from one thing it would just cycle to another and the problem with that addiction would get worse. IMO addressing the root cause that’s driving the desire to escape — the memories we can’t deal with — is the most efficient and practical way to start ensuring long-term healthier behaviors.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:46 am
JF12, having abandoned a lifelong habit of seeking approval and validation from women, I don’t really care at all if I’m called names by them — and magically, the name-calling, insults and man-up crap has disappeared. Laughing at these imprecations is actually a terrific seduction technique. Straight red-pill protocol and wisdom, there.
At some point we either own ourselves — become sovereign — or die.
But I have lifelong habits and coping mechanisms that remain hard-wired upstairs. I induce my own vulnerabilities; there’s a side of me that seemingly prefers them, since we all gravitate to the familiar under stress. David Mamet puts his characters under tremendous stress, and he’s noted that he does so because it reveals their elemental nature, their nature at age 10. (I’m not going into detail, but I’ve had two conversations with my mother in my life, and she put me in the hospital twice before I was 10. When I was 10 or 11 I just moved into an unheated, uninsulated garage attic. My father’s approach to managing an untreatable schizophrenic was to pretend we were normal.)
Now that I no longer think I have any legitimate obligation to talk about negative emotions (as part of my former devotion to an “evolved, sensitive man” program) it’s a lot easier, but the self-sabotaging habits can be a bitch to keep under control. We’re all recidivists. Fundamentally, this is the narrative tension and problem with Don Draper. He’s fascinating because we’re watching a man walk a tightrope; when’s he going to fall?
November 27th, 2014 at 9:56 am
–Now to bring that back on topic–
FI conditioning plays a huge role in all of this for us as men. We have picked up a lot from what women THINK we should be like as men. Seen it in the media. We have grown up with our masculinity being defined by women living from a feminine-primary context.
jf12 asks what we think our vulnerabilities are as men. Honestly, I struggle to answer that. Because I don’t know. I still feel like I have to reclaim my identity from what was taken away from me through what is basically brainwashing.
I’m very sensitive, intuitive, and empathic by nature. But is this a vulnerability? As I grow older and more experienced, I’m finding this to be a personal strength more than anything.
When I was younger and before I found No More Mr. Nice Guy and Rational Male, I thought my sensitivity, intuition and empathic nature were DRIVERS for me to appeal for feminine attention.
i.e.: I thought they were a result of my heightened need for affection, intimacy, etc., due to the deprivation I’ve experienced. And I looked to women to fill that void. I was obsessed with finding a ‘soul mate’ or really any girl that could fill that void I thought I had.
After reading here for a while, I’m starting to learn how to keep my talents to myself. And that’s how I see them now — talents. I used to think of the abuse I went through, and all the problems I’ve had, and my history in mental hospitals, etc., as vulnerabilities —
— things I wanted to reveal to women in order to win their attention. That even includes wanting women to know I was a virgin and feel bad for me, and have that as a basis for sexual attraction and intimacy. “What a poor guy, I’m going to help him out.”
It’s taken me quite a long time to figure out that doesn’t work at all. Still being a virgin at 25 after wishing and hoping that some girl would take compassionate pity on me and fuck my brains out…..yeah. That pipe dream went out the window. I could feel stupid and vulnerable looking back on that, but I don’t. As painful as it’s been to face the truth of hypergamy and how weakness is repulsive to women….
…it’s allowed me to claim my strength as a man. What can a woman do to me that I haven’t already done to myself? Depriving me of sex is the worst thing a woman can do to me. Which for me is laughable. Knowing what I know now, I feel free of emotional attachment.
Women’s hypergamy works to our advantage as long as we’re keenly aware of it. It works against betas, and it works for alphas, from what I can gather.
Because it gives us a reason to NOT emotionally attach to women, or take anything they say or do to us personally. To an Alpha, there really are plenty of fish in the sea. If one’s giving you problems, throw it back and catch another.
Being keenly aware of women’s hypergamous natures gives us the edge. We shouldn’t forget that we’re getting insider information here. The vast majority of men in the world will never know the things we’re learning here on RM.
The stuff Rollo’s writing about here is true. But the difference is that most men don’t know that. They haven’t a clue.
We have to work through our emotional resistances and angers and resentments. We’ve all been through the ringer with women one way or another, and have been lied to our whole lives.
But we’re among the few who have had our eyes opened. We’re among the few who have some answers about why we’ve failed with women — and we know that it’s because we were playing by the “old book” of rules.
Accepting hypergamy for what it is has allowed me to let go of my former ONE-itis fixation, the LJBF girl I was hopelessly obsessed with just a few months ago.
I met a new girl at my friend’s apartment while that LJBF girl was there. I flirted with the new girl right in front of her. She got jealous and started trying to talk to me again. I’m entertaining her once in a while and I think I might now even be able to develop a shot at banging her if I play my cards right. But I’m focusing on the new girl, who has shown some sexual interest in me.
Even just flirting with her and getting the RESPECT of being flirted with and seen as a sexual man — is so much better than all that pandering I did to that other girl.
And if this girl starts trying to take it into LJBF territory, guess where I’m going? Gone. Not ever making that mistake again. But I think I have more control than I’m aware of.
Women will lie, cheat, deceive, and hide. And that is exactly what gives us the green light to watch our own backs and not allow them to emotionally/sexually manipulate us.
It isn’t malicious on our part. It’s just wising up. One of the main playing cards of the FI is guilt. Shaming men and trying to make them feel BAD for being men, and having their own sexual imperative. Just because our sexual imperative is different from theirs doesn’t mean it’s bad. This is what the FI tries to instill in us — self hatred, guilt, and shame. Just for being men and being different from women, and not wanting the same things that women want.
De-programming those toxic beliefs is proving to be a huge part of my own peace of mind. And as I see coming in the future, a huge part of my success with women. If we’re operating from self hatred and guilt and shame we’ve lost before we started, which is evidently what the FI wants. And has largely succeeded in creating. But it’s high time for that to change.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:59 am
Vox Day offers
12. Women are vulnerable to impositions of authority.
“if you have a female superior, one of the best ways to ensure your job security and become a pet employee is to let her offload the decision-making onto you. Give her an inch and the chances are very high that she’ll take a mile and thank you for it.”
This is my shtick! I have had a number of fine female bosses who look out for me and treat me like … like … (blush) a man, and this is exactly how I manage them. On the other hand, my female employees tend to be obnoxiously bitchy and rebellious.
November 27th, 2014 at 10:01 am
Softek, my experience with EMDR is that it leaves one physically exhausted with the sensation of one’s skull being cleaved wide open. I don’t recommend it to people who have to be functional and uphold their responsibilities.
At the time I was running a venture-backed start-up with 100 employees, and my ex-wife was demanding that I do this therapy as part of our marriage counseling process (the female therapist, as it turned out, was privately reporting to her on what I thought were confidential experiences, and this all became fodder for her divorce petition, terminating a 20 year relationship). I was getting up at 3 a.m. to do housework and write (signature demands of the marriage counseling; meanwhile the ex- was a SAHM), and I had customers from Stockholm to Tokyo so was on travel 50% of the time.
As we’ve all learned and discussed, if a woman wants out of a marriage it’s much easier if it’s all the guy’s fault. She assembled the trifecta with me: husband with “pathologies”, worked too much but not enough around the house, and imposed too much financial risk on the family. It was hard for her to get out of the marriage and be a victim because I was a good provider, monogamous, and a devoted father whom she liked to screw. (The night she announced the divorce she wanted to fuck.) Being blue-pill I just thought I needed to be more”vulnerable” and, not knowing what a shit-test lifestyle was, I just shrugged at all the new obligations she was imposing, considering them prosaic nuisances, just another set of bars to jump over. Dumb dumb dumb.
November 27th, 2014 at 10:35 am
re: “it reveals their elemental nature, their nature at age 10.”
10? I probably peaked at 10. My first “girlfriend” was my orally-fixated younger sister, and by age 10 I had long since taught most all the neighborhood girls, a lot of them my cousins or other kin, how to sho-nuff kiss. Real kissing, for realz. Kissing strangers was forbidden, but somehow relatives were a loophole. I also managed to be the designated groom for a least a half dozen drawn-out play weddings, consummated in applauded kissing of course.
Other loopholes abounded. At elementary school I was sternly instructed not to let the girls kiss me. That was the rule as expounded: not to let them kiss me. But non-oral nuzzling was apparently ok. And stroking. Georgie Porgie was nothing; I once made a girl cry, laid out on a schoolyard picnic table, because it felt so good when I exquisitely leisurely nuzzled her forearm hairs up and down, up and down, with my nose.
My first stranger-girl entanglement, literally, was Ana at the start of first grade. She had instantly glommed onto me after I complimented the silkiness of her hair, and within the first week we were making each other’s eyes roll back with shared pantings and heavy breathings (“but we weren’t kissing!”) by mutual scalp massage. My slender fingers slipped through her wet-look hair like pink minnows nibbling in a dark pond, but her brown (too tepid a word; let’s say toasted cinnamon) little fingerlings grasped my hairs and often tugged some out. That part was her idea, since she wanted to act more like her mom and dad.
Girl-wise I was on top of the world until puberty.
November 27th, 2014 at 10:41 am
What a great post and the replies have been a great overall read.
@Realitie & Crazlittle
Your posts and insights were helpful in understanding your perspectives on the subject of overt displays of male vulnerability.
@jf12
Women’s most lucrative currency is their sexuality. This is why most women are in provisioning relationships before they age out. Stand up a women in her 20’s and a woman in her 30’s to any man and he’ll prefer the former. I recall a saying, “…a man wants two women in their 20’s than one woman in her 40’s.” Furthermore, I personally feel women fulfill the role of sex and companionship.
What Realitie and Crazlittle have done is nothing more than validate everything we already discuss here regularly. In short, whatever makes a woman’s giny tingle. Women’s modis operandi is emotionally-based. This will explain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGiNx5pvgPg
The life of a man is rather lonely. As stated in this thread is “perform, perform, perform”. The foundation of society is built on men–a foundation should not have any cracks. Even the technology women use to shame men was built by men (quantum mechanics gave us cell phones).
I’ve learned from women thus far in my sojourn in life. Being emotional is powerful within the right context. We men are human and can’t keep everything hidden away or we will lose our sanity over time. We can’t be vulnerable to women. We must perform. We love to figure things out.
Look how we men are responding to this thread by deconstructing it into logical factors. Ironically, logic drives women mad. Men need to release their emotional pressure occasionally but not to women. Other men should be the shoulder to lean on with the expectation that the support will allow for a “second wind” or retrospect so said man can keep moving forward, keep improving toward his full potential.
I have thought a woman was there for me to lean on when times get tough and her positive feminine energy of support and love would give me the tools to bounce back and keep going. Maybe I was wrong.
I have shown vulnerability to the woman I’m seeing only twice and each time my life was spinning out of control. She acted disgusted and annoyed each time. Her mother passed away not too long ago. Her father broke down upon remembering his late wife and afterwards she even said to me how embarrassed and annoyed she was with his display. Experience is the best teacher. Looks like I need to either next her or find a coping mechanism since it looks as though AWALT.
Well all this male constructive debating has me encouraged to go throw up some weights and keep on my path. So I say thank you, to you my brothers for the energy to keep going.
Happy Thanksgiving!
November 27th, 2014 at 10:46 am
@ BuenaVista
I haven’t tried EMDR, but I do know from using Faster EFT on myself and other people that while being tired at the end of a session is normal, there should definitely be a feeling of having a giant weight lifted off of you. Just from a cursory search on EMDR, one major difference I see is that in Faster EFT, you don’t try to hold the sensations and memories of the negative experience as you tap on it — you feel them first and associate to them first, and the tapping is intended to take you *fully* out of it.
Into problem fully — completely out of problem — back into problem fully — completely out of problem.
I have done this completely by myself. For the time being I do think that’s helped. I might not have the experience to do as good of a job as an experienced practitioner, but I’ve had good results working on myself and knowing that I’m in COMPLETE privacy, and no one knows what I’m working through but me, has given me an additional feeling of safety. I’ll probably let my guard down at some point and employ the expertise of an experienced practitioner — but not yet. And one thing I do like with Faster EFT is Robert is constantly mentioning his free videos on YouTube. Anyone can watch them and pick up some ideas and start making changes in their lives in complete privacy. No one else has to know.
When my friend’s ex filed for divorce, he had no idea why she did it. She blamed him of course. Fortunately he got a good lawyer and they reamed her out. Her case against him in court was “he should’ve known.” He was not guilty of any kind of abuse or anything that would reasonably warrant a divorce.
She got her divorce, but he got the house, custody of the kids, and didn’t have to pay any alimony. Because she was making twice as much money as he was a year. In her words, “You’re going to be penniless and living in your car.”
Nice. Good that it worked out for her.
She called him up years later and told him she wanted to tell him why she got the divorce. His response? “I don’t want to know, and I don’t care.” And he hung up the phone and never talked to her again.
I also forgot to mention she waited until 2 weeks after his dad died to file for divorce. Kicked him while he was down. He had another friend whose wife filed for divorce….had the papers served to him while he was in the hospital recovering from open heart surgery.
This is what drew me to Faster EFT in the first place — and long before that, my lifelong passion for nutrition and general well-being and how to take care of ourselves and our health.
Because shit like this happens. The hardest part for me is not feeling callous. We all want to believe that we just found a bad woman, or a particularly harsh one, and….’NAWALT.’
But they are. And if we drop our guard and forget that we have to take care of ourselves, and be able to manage ourselves, with the help of close male friends if necessary — we pay the price.
It sounds like an unhealthy belief system to be so guarded. But I think it’s just wising up. It’s about as unhealthy a belief, IMO, as believing that it’s dangerous to stick your bare hands into an oven while the cookies are baking.
It is dangerous. That’s been hard for me to accept as it’s hard to imagine that women could truly be biologically programmed to be so selfish, and act so coldly out of nothing but complete self-regard and self-preservation, with no concern for the feelings of someone they’ve known for YEARS, supposedly intimately —
— but that’s how it is. Better to be prepared than live in ignorant bliss and have it crushed to pieces when the hammer drops. We can’t blame ourselves for wanting to believe in the goodness of women — the idea that they can love us unconditionally.
But they can’t. As hard as that is to accept I’m starting to see that it’s really better to accept that. I like the idea that we’re always better off knowing the complete truth, even if it’s something we don’t want to face, and we’ll be better off in the long run for acknowledging it.
November 27th, 2014 at 11:37 am
strauman sez “Ironically, logic drives women mad.” Hence, maybe
13. Women are vulnerable to logic.
Hold on, hold on, I know what you’re gonna say. I didn’t say women respond logically to logic.
November 27th, 2014 at 12:51 pm
jf12 – “13. Women are vulnerable to logic.”
If I may…
13. Women are vulnerable to properly framed logic.
Frame is everything. Poorly framed logic will crumble before tears and feelz.
I would add that women are especially vulnerable to properly framed emotion. The conscious logical framing of emotion serves to create a narrative that supersedes frame by confining her emotions to an intentionally structured and externally controlled narrative reality.This reality, being built of emotion, can be self reinforcing. Being a narrative construct it frames everything she brings to it. The only way out is to choose to deny that narrative reality.
November 27th, 2014 at 6:57 pm
Brown Thursday sales …
November 27th, 2014 at 8:27 pm
I don’t like the use of the word ‘love’. It seems to be used to mean everything and anything. Esther Vilar said something that resonates with me in the last chapter (titled What is Love?) of her her book,The manipulated man :
«He (Man) fights for his life and calls it love […]. She, too, is fighting for her life and she, too, calls it love. They need one another, in fact, and it seems therefore that they share one sentiment»
Showing vulnerability is a tool; not a strength. See Law 46 – Never appear too perfect. Outside of that context, I prefer not to.
As a result of our human condition there are moments when we are vulnerable but the girlfriend/wife is the last person to share it with. I learned it the hard way. Even when she ask you what is wrong, I guarantee you that you better not open up. She will resent/punish you for it.
Men’s vulnerability, pain or suffering is shunned everywhere in society and makes everybody uncomfortable. I think men show vulnerability inside their relationships because it is the only place where they think it would be tolerated(soul-mate delusion) except maybe with their father/mother.
My understanding is that vulnerability is seen as a demonstration of weakness and it naturally elicits visceral disgust and contempt from women. It is obvious to who dares pay attention to their body language and reaction even while they are giving you words of support.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:04 pm
One testimonial on Faster EFT and PTSD:
One reason I keep bringing Faster EFT up here is because it pertains DIRECTLY to vulnerability. Notice the last part of the title in that video: “Now we have the tools.”
I believe that a major pitfall is wanting to use women as our ‘tools’ for our healing.
I have accepted that that is never going to happen. Nothing I can get from a girl is going to heal me. I can have fun. But it isn’t the cure for everything behind the vulnerability — so there’s no point expressing it to them anyway.
“Game” is feeling much less “fake” to me now that I’m accepting that. Game is really just an expression of the deepest connection that’s possible with women: maintaining frame and keeping their arousal for us as high as possible for as long a time as possible. It isn’t an act. It isn’t being fake. It isn’t putting on a mask or hiding ourselves. It’s being authentic, because women’s arousal and respect for us as men is the highest value they have to offer us.
There is nothing they can offer us that is worth more than that. So when you ‘hide your feelings’ and aren’t vulnerable, or ‘put on a mask,’ remember that you’re not hiding your feelings or putting on a mask. You’re simply behaving in a way that will encourage women to give you the best that they can possibly offer. You are getting the most you can out of the deal, you are making the most out of any possible connection you could have with this girl, by maintaining Game and Frame.
This is the epitome of a guy that “just gets it.” The key here is that it’s not appeasing to women. It’s that the only reason we should act in these ways is because it’s most beneficial to us as men: respect and arousal are the highest values women have to offer to men, and when we ‘play the role’ to get those highest values, we win.
IOW, I’m not angry that women are like this. They are incapable of offering to me what only men can offer to me — the support, the genuine understanding, the actual empathy and being on the same wavelength.
What they can offer are respect for me as a man and sexual attraction to me. It isn’t putting on a mask; it’s simply a matter of having your priorities straight. Men are for this, women are for that, etc.
November 27th, 2014 at 9:30 pm
With the Red Pill, men know women better than women know themselves, and men know women better than women know men.
November 28th, 2014 at 9:07 am
Slowly but surely accumulating women’s exploitable weak points.
14. Women are amazingly susceptible to kino. You could not possibly believe it unless you tried. If you’re going to bother to sin, then sin boldly.
15. Women’s biggest vulnerability is intra-sexual competition for the attentions of a desired man. The is THE kryptonite for ALL women post-puberty. Since women have no other power, all women will escalate sexually when competing with other women. Attention whoring is a degenerate (albeit common) form, but the quick and dirty way to get not just increased (but deniable) IOI from a woman but actual undeniable expressions/actions of desire is to get her in your company along with a slutty winggirl who is flirting with you. This works within minutes guaranteed, rounding up; mere seconds in practice, from teenagers through ages 60s at least i.e. well past menopause.
A caveat: make sure the designated pre-selector girl is *slutty*, not high MMV. Slutty competition brings out expressions of desire towards the man; MMV competition brings out mere cattiness, almost ignoring the man.
16. Physically two big weak points are their noses and toeses. All women are strangely uncertain about the sexual/sensual quality of their noses and feet. I think the feet thing is what promotes women’s footwear fetish. So, focus on these areas for push-pull complimenting and negging.
November 28th, 2014 at 9:16 am
One open doorway to kino is mirroring postures.
1. Establish yourself within spittin’ distance of the woman and interact, i.e. open her. Extra company is irrelevant.
2. Mirror her posture exaggeratedly, not subtly. Aim for laughs from her. She will change posture. Always.
3. Mirror her change accurately, and then along with it add something else different-but-expected, like touch your cheek or rake your hair.
4. She very well may initiate kino herself already at this point, but otherwise observe her for mirroring your addition.
5. Repeat 2 and 3 as needed until she mirrors.
6. Smirk, and touch her.
November 28th, 2014 at 9:42 am
@ Softek and M. Simon – Thanks so much for the input and comments. I’m currently depression and psycho-active medication free, and manage my anxiety pretty well. I looked at Faster EFT and frankly, it’s not much different from what I do with the Sedona Method. Softek – perhaps the most powerful thing in the Sedona Method is to say “No” when I ask myself honestly whether I want to let go of negative emotions. I hold onto these things as they have become anchors for me and give me a sense of who I am. That helps me see that I generate it all. And The Release Technique is pretty complex in quite subtle ways. Reading about it will not really make clear how profound it is. The experience is almost indescribable, but it seems you got to a similar place with Faster E
Softek – Just listened to that Curtis Mayfield song, thanks, what a sweet groove.
It took me 5-6 months of steady practice to use the Sedona Method techniques readily and with good effect. They also have ideas about “resistance” that are very powerful. After a while, I began to also release positive emotions too and that took my recovery to an entirely different level. Try doing Faster EFT on being happy and see where that takes you – this is where the Sedona Method totally blew my mind.
I’ve tried EMDR with mixed results. For rewiring trauma in the brain wrt trauma, I agree that exposure therapy and revisiting and re-imagining the events is by far the most powerful thing one can do. And it is terrifying and painful at first, but so worth doing. I now own all those memories and they have much less charge. That’s why, for example, I can say here that I have a blacked out memory of what seems to be sex abuse – I’m fine with what happened to me. I feel no guilt or shame about it – that’s all on the babysitter and her brother who tortured me and locked me in a toy chest before the real fun began. One of the interesting things about this memory is that when I finally retrieved some of it (it’s one of three severe, life threatening trauma’s I was subjected to when I was 7 years old) my therapist was so horrified by the parts I did remember. He was like, “Whether we can actually get to the memories of the sex abuse or not, do you realize how horrific what you remember is?” I’d repressed the memory for 28 years, fyi and it only came partially back. Not with any therapist prodding, just on its own as I began to listen more closely to my inner agony.
What the Red Pill has done for me is help me see how the Feminine Primary world has had me shape my emotions and sense of myself in ways that made it very hard to deal with my suffering and trauma. I was mostly ashamed of who I was in my early life. I felt “broken”. I used to say I should be on the “island of misfit toys” and collected other dysfunctional, broken people around me because I felt so threatened by normal people. I structured my entire life as a struggle to overcome all this damage – while knowing I never could. I also saw women as a salve for my pain and sought succor and comfort with them unsuccessfully. I could never understand why a woman could not give me the love I wanted – and then I realized nobody could because on a basic level, I actually hated myself. But I never got that women just didn’t give a shit, that took longer.
What brought me here was a series of betrayals by my daughter and sisters that were incomprehensible to me. This turn of events undermined my belief that I was a good person because based on having been a good brother and father – the only things I drew any self-esteem from. When I had to face the raw reality that they didn’t give a shit about me and were perfectly happy to kick me when I was down, and denigrate me and treat me with an unimaginable level of disrespect, well, my world exploded.
This is why I’m a selfish prick now and love it. I no longer value myself via the lens of being a provider or a dad or brother (i was a father figure to two of my sisters). I still struggle with attraction to women and am often thrown to making their approval/attraction a way of valuing myself. I’m able to let it go now, but it’s funny how seducing a woman sets up this dynamic. I mean, I am the one initiating, and the women is choosing. It’s very difficult for a man to not value himself by how he wins and loses with women in this context since it’s a competition. Even winning will fuck with your mind because it gives an ego boost that is still based on someone else’s view of you.
I am getting better and better at letting go of my attachment to how a woman who I’m attracted to sees me. I find spinning plates is the best way to break the pattern – currently have three. But at 52, my “cake is baked” in some very real ways. Unwinding all this is probably not possible, but I do catch myself. And I am able to bring myself back to a self-centered place with effort – that is a huge victory.
There is a real paradox to the Red Pill in that on the one hand it encourages us to see that women’s approval isn’t really a prize worth playing for in terms of how it destroys our own identity and happiness if we live with that concern as central to our own esteem. But on the other hand, it’s given me license to look at my entire life as a self-improvement project, and one of the outcomes I seek is to attract more women to me. The difference is that I’m doing it all for my own purposes, and now know how to be very gentle and compassionate with myself.
Again, thanks for this everyone, and for those who are uninterested in this tangent, thanks for your patience. I hope you can see how helpful this is to me and others here.
November 28th, 2014 at 10:06 am
Glenn: You can see the shrink who said you did not have a chance was full of shit; you have demonstrated fortitude and perseverance–traits that were there at the beginning and now known to be some of your strength. You’ll get even stronger yet: perfect practice makes perfect.
November 28th, 2014 at 10:10 am
@Glenn re: “it gives an ego boost”
And (for secular purposes, i.e. the purposes of the blog, and being selfish, and winning, and etc), this is bad?
November 28th, 2014 at 10:16 am
Repeating some of what Glenn alluded to, including earlier. This is for all you fine ladies out there. Men are not particularly attracted to women for whom the men are responsible. Repeating: Being in authority over a woman does NOT make the woman more *attractive*. But, for a lot maybe most men, it makes the woman *easier*. Men do NOT have “daughter” issues in general, if at all. But women DO have “daddy” issues, all the time, especially if there are “sisters” with whom they are competing.
Now, if this comment doesn’t get my favorite ladylurker to delurk I don’t know what will.
November 28th, 2014 at 10:23 am
Bait.
Selena Gomez has a remarkably kissable nose and exquisite feet.
November 28th, 2014 at 10:34 am
BTW the age of the designated pre-selector slut is irrelevant; all that matters is her woman-perceived hotness i.e. the extent to which women would perceive that men would choose to pump-and-dump her i.e. the extent to which women think she would be “worth a f—, but that’s all”. This perceived Slut Value is, I think, basically the ratio of her SMV squared to her MMV.
SMV²/MMV
The really good news is that *hot* sluts are the exact ones who are up for playing along to help you Game other women. This kind of Conspiracy Game usually is about as much fun as a woman can have, and presumably is a welcome respite from boring guys just trying to get into her pants.
November 28th, 2014 at 10:48 am
@BuenaVista re: “I just shrugged at all the new obligations she was imposing, considering them prosaic nuisances, just another set of bars to jump over. Dumb dumb dumb.”
Would you say that was your Waterloo?
November 28th, 2014 at 11:01 am
It would seem that men in other parts of the world is way ahead of us in terms of turning the tide (this approach has also been suggested by MGTOW’s – they have seen the light some time ago already) – and women are taking notice – where everything else fails, THIS gets attention – see this response (below) – the question is though, would alpha’s play ball? Note the comments also below this piece:
http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/kaguremugo/2014/11/24/kenyan-men-extend-sex-boycott/
Maybe it’s time for men to re-empower themselves, strategically, by going their own way and by utilise quality services of the oldest profession the world kind – and sit back, get the popcorn out and see the results…
November 28th, 2014 at 11:19 am
Being “ugly, old and disgusting”, but horny, makes a man vulnerable to robbery and assault.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/27/nyregion/fantasy-date-with-twins-turns-sour-for-man-84.html
November 28th, 2014 at 11:32 am
Somewhat OT, two of the leading sociological researchers who have concerned themselves with the sexual vulnerability of hetero males, in and out of LTRs, are Elisabeth Burgess and Denise Donnelly from GSU, who also managed to publish the only article on incel. Burgess is still there, but I can’t figure out what happened to Donnelly. Anybody know?
November 28th, 2014 at 11:44 am
Glen what really settled the issue of the basic nature of women was dealing with my daughter and how she responded to game. frame control, dread etc
November 28th, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Wait, women writing on (male) incel? How come almost only women write about male sexuality. They seem rather obsessed with it…
November 28th, 2014 at 2:53 pm
jf12
November 27th, 2014 at 9:13 am
I also feel almost victorious when accused of being too heatedly involved/hyperfocused, or too controlling/bossy.
Oh. Yeah! At that point I remind her that I have been right 99% of the time despite vociferous complaints that I was being abusive and over controlling.
And the 1%? “Well you will just have to wait until I recognize the error and correct it. Which I have done.”
BTW I’m another boomer nerd. I designed the I/O board that went into the world’s first BBS. A precursor of the ‘net for those too young to remember.
November 28th, 2014 at 3:02 pm
J.J.
November 28th, 2014 at 11:01 am
If the women of America took up Bobbiting the way Kenyan women have I’d definitely consider celibacy.
November 28th, 2014 at 3:15 pm
I like Rollo but I don’t have much empathy that he doesn’t have the weekend post up yet
November 28th, 2014 at 3:16 pm
Glenn
November 28th, 2014 at 9:42 am
I used “The Fourth Way” by P. D. Ouspensky for negative emotions. There is a lot of occult mumbo jumbo but the rules are simple.
1. Do not identify
2. Do not consider
3. DO NOT TELL LIES
4. Do not express negative emotions
1&2 are about not letting social situations and conventions rule you.
He discusses the 96,000 rules most people have because they are not in touch. He says you don’t become human until you have pared it down to 48 rules and the rest is free interaction.
The not telling lies (your point about being attached to your pain is very good) is critical.
From what I see from women I know and how they interact with each other – they are attached to their pain. Their “pity parties” are notorious.
November 28th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
The first mate once explained the value of being in pain for a woman. “It is such a rush when it gets temporarily relieved.”
They are addicted to that rush, so being in pain has value for them. It is the precursor to the next big rush.
That is a very hard disease to cure.
November 28th, 2014 at 3:40 pm
It’s interesting reading red pill material. You guys make a lot of great points, its pretty much always factual, evident stuff (thanks myrealitie and crazylittle for being candid/honest) but my god, you’re all a bunch of whiny, bitter betas. You complain that women aren’t taking responsibility for regulating their emotions or taking care of men. I understand that it sucks that you can’t lean on your woman a little when having a hard time, but get over it! Deal with the reality you’re so painstakingly describing. You say women are like children and dogs but can’t stop bitching about their nature. You complain about your burden of performance. Why? You’re a man, you’re born to perform. Is it fair? No, life isn’t fair. Get over it. What do you have against being the man? If you have the mental fortitude to do so then the world is your playground. You can get all the pussy or loving worship you want (no need to get married). Just make it happen. Your life is in your hands.
November 28th, 2014 at 3:45 pm
@ M. Simon
Yeah, it’s not like the majority of men in the West isn’t having that done to them, just not exactly physically. The point is WE (except for the MGTOW’s) ain’t got the balls to counteract this situation, unlike Kenyan men… Heck, Western WOMEN have more balls than us – they simply DENY US sex – as they please – and they hold all the cards – to reach certain objectives, no sweat. Yet, here we are bitching amongst each other about the injustice of it all, yet – when push comes to shove, are MEN (“men”?) really able to withhold sex???
November 28th, 2014 at 4:13 pm
Hey, Bricks, I’m really curious what you have accomplished in life, and how studly and awesome you are professionally and personally. Thanks for setting us straight. Do you have a driver’s license yet?
November 28th, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Bricks is kind of right but I think he doesn’t understand the purpose of the manosphere. It’s a place for us to regain our sanity. We are essentially comparing notes and realizing we aren’t crazy. I don’t anticipate spending years on this or any other site. I will learn what I need to and log in periodically to pass on wisdom if I can. Other than that, this is not the destination. It is just part of the path. Brick, read about the 5 stages of unplugging. The whining you are whining about is just one stage of the process. If anyone is still on this site a year from now and is still whining then go ahead and call them out. I’m willing to bet though, it will be an entirely fresh crop of men waking up.
November 28th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Concerning “All The Cards” that women hold.
Well for most husbands it’s true, they’re being pussy-whipped and don’t even defend themselves.
But when you have acknowledged that you can’t use brutal force against them because the state has the monopoly on it and they’re on her side, you realize you have other powers over them, powers to which they are defenseless.
Like withdrawing attention by walking away, dread or even withholding sex. Yeah, it might take some balls to do it (or just the oldest profession as mentioned above) but you can do it and the situation will get better afterwards. Or she rips your heart out through your wallet in court but then it wasn’t worth staying anyway…
November 28th, 2014 at 5:24 pm
@heyjay re: “women writing on (male) incel?”
Yes, males have written about it extensively, none of which was allowed to be published in scientific journals for the usual reasons: PC, FI, etc. If I remember correctly, the incel data that Burgess and Donnelly published was originally from Donnelly’s thesis work, about which her advisers complained after the fact that they thought they were approving something else. And it took years and years to get it published, and only because Burgess was the editor of the journal I think.
November 28th, 2014 at 5:33 pm
@Bricks, what do you have against women doing their job? What do ou think women are *for*?
November 28th, 2014 at 5:35 pm
@Briks
Apparently, under the pretense of the unfairness of life, men should accept the burden of having to perform for women who will not only be incapable of appreciating the sacrifices made for them but also, will not provide any support when he is having a hard time. Men should Just “Get over it”. You forgot to add that they should “Man up and and stop acting like children who refuse to accept responsibilities”
Since men are “born to perform”,they should just do so for ungrateful women because “life isn’t fair”. That’s really funny! I’ll at least give you that.
To each their own but I would rather perform for myself.
“You can get all the pussy or loving worship you want”
What is the actual value of a woman’s pseudo loving worship considering the parameters on which that “love” is based?
November 28th, 2014 at 5:40 pm
re: “all the cards”
As a beta, it isn’t even my wife’s displeasure that keeps me in check. Her too-quick displeasure is more or less taken for granted anyway. The ONE card she holds is accusing me of being mean, impolite, not living up to my bestest beta standards. It’s all she’s got; she’s got nothing besides.
After the loong ride home from her younger sister’s house, after hours of me being Mr. Performer for her single older sister, so much so that she wet her panties in public again, and after the jealous younger sister ragingly roused her sleeping boring second husband to try and fail to show that he could be a little fun too, actually she was quite lovey dovey.
November 29th, 2014 at 12:17 am
J.J.
November 28th, 2014 at 3:45 pm
are MEN (“men”?) really able to withhold sex???
Not just sex but all kinds of signs of affection. To make it work you have to tell her, “you can be replaced” and mean it. And of course she has to believe it from your having done something in her presence.
Barring mass Bobbiting I don’t think a total sex strike is possible.
For guys starting out it helps to have had a threesome or three with the LTR c*nt. And when she gets out of line remind her of it. Or do what ‘ton has done and maintain such a relationship with a few women. Then her replacement is always on hand.
Of course the best is to find a woman who knows herself well enough to like the bond such insecurity (for her) brings. Everything in the culture is designed to prevent such a realization. But you can train them. With great difficulty.
Bricks
November 28th, 2014 at 3:40 pm
Newly realized Red Pill guys are prone to bitch a LOT. I think it helps cement the attitude change. You see it as beta whining. We will know in 5 or 10 years if that is so. If that is the case men will devise different tools. I’m not so inclined at this point.
November 29th, 2014 at 12:27 am
The ONE card she holds is accusing me of being mean, impolite, not living up to my bestest beta standards.
Luckily I never had to live up to that. But I do get accused of that when she is going through one of her unbonded periods. I have ALWAYS been the lewd crude bad boy. “You behaving like a c*nt? That is what I’m going to call you.” Funny thing is when she bonds she wants to be my c*nt. Go figure.
She was hoping to reform me. On some level I knew better. And now with sites like this I know why giving in to her beta desires is a bad move.
November 29th, 2014 at 12:33 am
Chester
November 28th, 2014 at 5:35 pm
What is the actual value of a woman’s pseudo loving worship considering the parameters on which that “love” is based?
Not much? Zero? Less than zero?
Women are for f*cking or raising children. If they aren’t doing either what is the point?
November 29th, 2014 at 12:44 am
heyjay
November 28th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
…you realize you have other powers over them, powers to which they are defenseless.
Like withdrawing attention by walking away, dread or even withholding sex.
When I really want to get to the first mate I stop talking to her. Sometimes for days. The silent cold shoulder. She can’t handle that. At all.
Women who can’t use their verbal tools (they are usuallu better at it than men) are powerless. If they can’t fill the air with sounds they have to feel. And generally it don’t feel good.
November 29th, 2014 at 12:48 am
Hmmmm. The tag didn’t work or I wrote it wrong so
usually
November 29th, 2014 at 12:51 am
Well that was badly done. and the [u] tag is not understood. so. Lets see if this works:
span style=”text-decoration: underline;”>usually
November 29th, 2014 at 12:55 am
I wonder if a phony link will work? Probably change the color too.
usually
November 29th, 2014 at 1:14 am
Re: my –> M Simon
November 28th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
Let me add that steady pleasure doesn’t seem to interest women. They crave excitement.
I have actually gotten the first mate to take steady doses of pleasure such that it is almost a habit almost. And then she will crash things to recreate the pain so she can get a rush at the next point of relief.
I’m thinking of spanking her more often. Just a little more than she can handle. So it feels real good when I stop. A relief from pain AND fear (the fear that I will go far too far).
I do like it when she bonds. Funny enough she likes it too.
November 29th, 2014 at 9:16 am
@ msimon
They crave excitement.
Yeah, drama is a need for women. Boredom kills the tingles. See my post about relationships. Ton had a useful comment there, too. Dread helps create drama.
November 29th, 2014 at 11:35 am
Vulnerability will NEVER be rewarded to you with increased understanding, affection and bonding from a woman; in fact, quite the opposite.
No matter how much discussion goes on in this posting, I think it’s agreed that unless you are THE MAN and establish that fact early on, showing vulnerability just disqualifies you in every stage in your life. Just don’t fall for that B.S. If the dating world is a shark tank, then vulnerability is a great white whose mouth you willingly swim into.
Like I said earlier; hide it, deny it and kill it.
November 30th, 2014 at 8:51 am
“I mind an entire society creating a disease called “erectile dysfunction” to pathologize the fact that men can’t get an erection to fuck their aging wives. Have you ever even considered why a man takes the little blue pill? It’s so he can do stud service to a woman he doesn’t really even want to fuck at all – talk about “rape culture”, who’s sexual agency is being impinged upon in this scenario?”
This is so true, especially when you combine the fact of women aging with their sense of entitlement to the rock-hard insta-stiffy they inspired as a young woman with little to no effort on their part. They’re older and respectable no so no freaky shit or bj for you old man. Just be rock hard when I demand or you might just be out on your ass. So fucking BS.
December 1st, 2014 at 12:20 am
@ jf12
RE: The question: “What are women *for*?”…
The only reason why this questions is (rightly) being asked (now) and has come up now – is due to the fact that women take responsibility for nothing – if they are not obligated to do something – and even then they would mostly prefer not to HAVE TO do that something – they are lazy creatures by nature.
Women used to be *for* many things – in the sense that they had a certain role to fulfil as a partner, wife and or mother and the tasks and duties involved were traditional and set – and well-known. (This is the “yoke of oppression” which many of them perceive to have been freed from).
In short: This is what happens when you remove gender roles from society – and this is what they had been campaigning all along under the guise of being oppressed – for them “oppression” is being obligated to do domestic duties for example – or always having to provide support for their men – emotional and otherwise – they used to be obligated and expected as a good wife or partner, to do that. Nowadays due to “equality” they aren’t obligated to do anything, especially not according to their peers… and their opinion of their peers is more important than anything else – they couldn’t give two hoots about the opinion of men – nowadays – because men are “ten to a penny” – “when one bus takes off another arrives”. They have too much choice.
Do yourselves a favour and get hold of: “The Great Female Con” by Any Randead – highly recommended – the issue of too much choice is well-explained in there.
December 1st, 2014 at 12:22 am
Typo correction: Andy Randead
December 1st, 2014 at 8:31 pm
I have an interesting update: So, after this discussion last week I was a complete bitch to my husband. I think you might call this “shit-testing.” He pushed back on me appropriately, and I felt safe again. We ended up having a really excellent holiday.
Today he came home and complained to me again about some work developments that I find very stressful to hear about. Without going into too much detail, the next month or so is a critical period for his future, and despite being in a really outstanding position, he is feeling anxious about things. I was again a bitch, and I told him that I am not going to listen to him complain because I can’t do anything to help the situation, and it just stresses me out also. In my opinion he should call his brother or one of his friends or work out or do absolutely anything else to sooth himself.
Alternatively, he could simply tell me that he would like me to be supportive without laying the details on me about his anxiety. This is the really important point I want to drive home: I think most women are happy to cook for you, give you a back rub, make you a cup of tea, or do anything else to help out the team, but please, STFU. Why stress another person out who is in no position to give you advice or offer assistance of any kind? You can get plenty of support if you ask for it directly. Just STFU.
December 2nd, 2014 at 3:02 am
“Alternatively, he could simply tell me that he would like me to be supportive without laying the details on me about his anxiety. This is the really important point I want to drive home: I think most women are happy to cook for you, give you a back rub, make you a cup of tea, or do anything else to help out the team, but please, STFU. Why stress another person out who is in no position to give you advice or offer assistance of any kind? You can get plenty of support if you ask for it directly. Just STFU.”
You should tell him this, in your exact words so he knows.
All that is the exact reason why I think marriage isn’t worth anything to a man even if divorce laws weren’t what they are. What man needs to work hard and chase promotions if not to provide in excess to cover the need for another human being, namely a wife. But look, all she wants is to be insulated from the stress and anxiety that you wouldn’t even have, was it not for your concern about providing for her.
Thank you so much @myrealitie for reminding me again of why I don’t want to get married. I am truly greatful and I am not being sarcastic here. When I explain this to people, they don’t understand.
December 2nd, 2014 at 7:20 am
myrealitie
December 1st, 2014 at 8:31 pm
Why stress another person out who is in no position to give you advice or offer assistance of any kind?
Isn’t that what women do (yeah you are not like that) all the time?
Especially at their pity parties (coffee klatches). One thing that has helped my LTR is reducing the amount of time she spends at pity parties to near zero.
“You want to feel better? Bond with me.”
December 2nd, 2014 at 8:02 am
I did tell him, and it’s helping a lot actually. I even demonstrated that if he shields me from this stress that I am in no position to help with directly that I am extremely willing actually do more than I already do (in terms of house work and care-taking) to help ease his burden and keep him feeling his best.
I think complaining, for both sexes, is really just a bad habit where one gets into a negative loop of thinking and uses another person to perpetuate it. And yes, I do do it sometimes, and I would like to do it less.
It’s just a really bad idea to use a woman as your emotional tampon excessively and out of habit. And that’s all it really is, in my opinion, a bad, self-defeating habit.
December 2nd, 2014 at 9:13 am
@ Kate
he shields me from this stress that I am in no position to help with directly that I am extremely willing actually do more than I already do (in terms of house work and care-taking) to help ease his burden and keep him feeling his best.
Very helpful. So the feminine nonsense about 100% openness is…nonsense. Women want to be shielded from what a man faces but to be delegated additional tasks without understanding the details of why.
December 2nd, 2014 at 9:36 am
@theasdgamer: “So the feminine nonsense about 100% openness is…nonsense. ” – I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic, but, Yes, I believe that is what Rollo has been trying to say in various different ways for the lifetime of this blog. Do you disagree?
December 2nd, 2014 at 10:43 am
@ Kate
I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic, but
no “but” cracks, please..lol…
December 2nd, 2014 at 6:48 pm
@myrealitie
Every once in a while, someone inadvertently blabs the truth. Thank you for your comment as it directly illuminates this topic better than I ever could.
Whether we like it or not, whether we’re single, married or in a LTR, the women in your life just don’t want to hear any vulnerability. There’s only room for one person to have self generated indignatio…..I mean, stress in a relationship, and that sir is definitely not you. Empathy and sympathy only flow in one direction – hers.
Great inadvertent brain fart, there.
December 3rd, 2014 at 12:11 am
@myrealitie
Sometimes a man needs just a very basic acknowledgement of support – just a couple of words of understanding – that’s all – and he’s up an away – it’s just good to know that your partner actually G’sAF. Even that seems to be too much to ask though, because the slightest “chink in one’s armour” (being human) is bound to be seen as a weakness…
What a joke.
MGTOW
December 3rd, 2014 at 2:54 pm
“… I told him that I am not going to listen to him complain because I can’t do anything to help the situation, and it just stresses me out also. … Alternatively, he could simply tell me that he would like me to be supportive without laying the details on me about his anxiety.”
What myrealitie said is completely reasonable. [December 1st, 2014 at 8:31 pm, and December 2nd, 2014 at 8:02 am]
You guys really need to stop expecting and demanding that women be your equals, and not depend on you for strength and emotional well-being.
One fundamental aspect of our reality is that men and women have complementary strengths and weaknesses, that can balance out, at best.
Complementary means that where you should be strong (naturally, or be taking steps in that direction), she will be weak and unable to compensate for you.
Furthermore, you create the absolutely most damaging stress by dumping your problems on someone who depends on you, and who can’t do anything to help the situation.
This stress is like when your boss gives you responsibility and accountability, but without any authority.
If you are in any sort of a positive and supportive relationship, your woman is operating at a certain level of efficiency and equilibrium.
Now what do you think happens to that when you tell her about bad things that might happen, when she cannot do anything about them, except to worry?
Has your display of weakness been a net gain anywhere? Has the positive energy in your home increased? Has what she can accomplish gone up or down? Does increasing the probability of her getting a stress induced illness help anybody?
And if this has actually reduced the mental pressure on you, then you really need to think about this long and hard, because it is only an unnecessary illusion, when she cannot actually do anything to help the situation.
When men do something like this, they are acting exactly like the cruel and solipsistic mother who tells her children, who depend on her for strength and emotional well-being, about real and imaginary problems that could destroy whatever little security they may have.
By being a bitch, in this situation, myrealitie was reacting in a way that was similar to how a child might react in an equivalent situation. She was reacting according to her female nature, which is not of her choosing
And did you miss her offer to be complementarily supportive, when so enabled, by being shielded from what is beyond her control or influence?
She was making a conscious choice to be a good person, by asking to be allowed to be a positive force, in the only way that is possible for her.
“I even demonstrated that if he shields me from this stress that I am in no position to help with directly that I am extremely willing actually do more than I already do (in terms of house work and care-taking) to help ease his burden and keep him feeling his best.”
December 3rd, 2014 at 3:38 pm
@ eon
Reality check – chickens coming home to roost – women have absolutely irrevocably demanded equality (maybe not realising there’s responsibility involved – as in providing SUPPORT – and having to LISTEN to other people’s problems…). If maybe they did not push so hard for equality, this would have not been an expectation now – by men in THIS AGE – the “old times” are over. By the CHOICE of females – time to WOMAN UP!
December 3rd, 2014 at 4:13 pm
@Jf
re: “They are available… IF you know how to get and keep a woman interested.”
Be a bad boy. Be an emotional robot. Be strong without any weaknesses. Be completely immune to heartache and completely dismiss everything a woman ever says or does.
Yeah, lose all your humanity – be a malignant narcissist, be a socio-path…
(all just to please a woman) ..
Are you even listen to yourself?? Think about it.
What is the main feature of narcissism and sociopathy?
Anyone…??
Lack of EMPATHY.
December 3rd, 2014 at 4:45 pm
Thanks @eon, I appreciate your being willing to see my perspective.
Fortunately, actually, so has my husband, after discussion. I am happy that I have gotten to a point where I view things from this perspective; I was able to communicate matter-of-factly and without guilt that I am here to be supportive but I can’t be roped into his work-anxiety and asked him to please save detailed discussions of his concerns for conversation with his male support system (which is sizable and available to him).
In the past, I may have felt that it was my womanly duty to be an ear, but in my experience with another relationship, doing that is actually a huge disaster. It essentially ruined the relationship, and I felt like a mother at the end.
By being firm and a little bitchy, we got to the heart of the matter really quickly. He seems really happy with my offer to go the extra mile at home when he has to put all of his focus on work. In fact, I suspect that this is his preference, but maybe that he has a little bit of “blue pill” programming insofar that he felt guilty instructing me without “letting me in” emotionally.
Just to clarify a bit: I think it is ok for a man to show a chink in the armor very briefly to his wife, but then to offer some reassurances about a plan for the long term picture and ask for specific help where it applies (e.g. spend less money right now, do more work in the house, give me a back rub etc. etc.)
@j.j being a good leader is not the same thing as being a sociopath. A sociopath only cares about themselves. A good leader looks after the well being of a group of people. It is a lot of responsibility, that is true.
I once read that Army Generals actually have less testosterone than Soldiers. I found that really interesting, and I think it makes sense; testosterone greatly increases selfishness from what I understand.
December 3rd, 2014 at 4:52 pm
Also @eon I agree with your analogy about mothers and children. It’s a terrible thing for a mother to rest on her children emotionally and to even subtly suggest that they are responsible for her emotional well-being and the safety of the family. In fact, mothers who do this to their sons are responsible for creating “white knights” to a large extent. These little boys, instead of figuring themselves and the world out, were pre-occupied with pleasing and catering to their mothers.