TRP poster, needathrowawayplease from the Red Pill subreddit has a timely question / observation:
Knowing your SO’s menstrual cycle can be extremely powerful. [Indeed]
During the fertile stage of her cycle, thousands of years of evolution mean her body is screaming at her to get knocked up by an alpha male. A simple test to determine is she sees you as her alpha fucks is to not initiate during the fertile period of her cycle and observe her behavior: does she come to you to get fucked? Does her body language or physical behavior change when she’s fertile. Maybe she touches you more often or more intimately or plays the role of the seductress: things like coming to bed wearing lingerie where she usually wouldn’t? Even if she’s relatively low-sex drive and doesn’t initiate, does she at least respond more passionately to your sexual advances or orgasm more easily or intensely when she’s fertile?
You obviously can’t draw conclusions from a single cycle but you should eventually see a pattern – and the more she values you sexually during her fertile period the better. If she isn’t doing anything differently or reacting to you differently when she’s fertile, something’s up.
This test can have false negatives but not false positives. There’s no false positive case where she suddenly starts riding you while you’re watching the Packers game but she doesn’t see you as her alpha. But it can have false negatives where she doesn’t initiate but still sees you as her alpha. If she isn’t initiating when she’s fertile (and you aren’t initiating in order to test her reaction), it could be due to stress, lack of time, being too used to you doing the initiation, etc. But at the very least she should be demonstrating increased passion and sexual ecstasy during her fertile period.
At a high-level:
The best case: She initiates during her fertile period if you don’t. She gets cravings for your D.
The OK case: She responds more passionately and orgasms more easily during her fertile period.
The uh-oh, something might be wrong case: No observable change during her fertile period.
The beta case: Dead bedroom, what the fuck are you even doing (sorry if you got married and you can’t get out).
Of course if she’s an extremely sexual being and all of the above describes your sex life 24/7, then none of this should even concern you.
Disclaimer: Once again, this test is a tool that works best for women with higher sex drives (who really wanna get fucked when they’re fertile). If your 37 year old wife of 15 years fucks you when you want and isn’t cheating, you’re fine. I don’t think test applies to all women (LOL, broke /trp/ rules oops) but it’s useful nonetheless.
Lets presume for a moment that neither a controlled experiment nor an uncontrolled, but documented, correlatively scientific, sociological field study has ever been performed to test the principle of feminine Hypergamy. For a moment, as a man, imagine yourself living in a period of time prior to any formalized school of psychology; pre-turn of the 20th century. There is no Pavlov, there is no Skinner, there is no Freud.
Using only personal observations, observations of learned behaviors related by your father and brothers, male friends and the intergender experiences of a very socially isolated (by today’s standards) group of people who make up your peers, and a restrictively limited access to any classic philosophical literature beyond the Judeo-Christian Bible – what would you presume would be the nature inimical to women and the feminine?
Would your observations, intuition and the education proffered by your father, brothers and other influential male friends and relations lead to an insight to know what Hypergamy is, how it motivates women and how to control for, or capitalize on it?
Not only do I believe it would, but I would argue that, up until the sexual revolution and the past 60 or so years, men have had an innate and learned understanding of Hypergamy, how it functions, and how to control for it.
To be sure, it didn’t have the formal name of ‘Hypergamy’ – in fact that term was until recently, strictly defined and reserved for “women with the tendency to marry above their socioeconomic level” in polite, pop-psychology circles – but men knew Hypergamy before the manopshere (re)exposed its true definition.
Waging Hypergamy
Resistance to the uncomfortable truths innate to the female experience is to be expected from women – until the advent of Open Hypergamy, the Feminine Imperative needed the sisterhood to be united and its secrets jealously guarded to the point of cognitive dissonance.
My guess is that most of my female critics would still agree with the basic parameters of Hypergamy, but what I doubt they’re aware of is that in denying the inherent biological nature of female Hypergamy women must also reject the sociological, psychological and (observably) behavioral aspects of Hypergamy inherent (and largely subconscious) in women.
Commenter Mookie:
“As women approach the Epiphany Phase (later the Wall) and realize the decay of their SMV (in comparison to younger women), they become progressively more incentivized towards attraction to the qualities a man possesses that will best satisfy the long-term security of the Beta Bucks side of her Hypergamy demands.”
Did your woman say, “you’re (so much) different than the guys I used to date.” Or, “I finally got smart and found a good guy.” If so, this is clear evidence that you are her Beta Bucks guy. Maybe she used to date DJs, NFL players, drug dealers, whatever. If these guys are different types of guys than you, do NOT continue the relationship. She has no clue, but she is rationalizing her choice in her mind. You will pay a severe price later, as in cheating, nonstop bitchiness, or sudden divorce. Find a girl that always dated guys like you. She may have swooned for the lead guitarist, but if she didn’t devote her early 20s to chasing him, you’re okay.
Beta Tells
One of the more common questions I’m asked in consults is whether something a guy did was ‘Beta’ or not. Usually it was a situation wherein the guy was instinctually sensitive to his own behavior in context to his Frame and how the woman he was dealing with perceived him. In most cases a man knows when he’s slipped in his perception of dominance with a woman, they just look for a third party confirmation of it – which is then followed by more rationalizations for why his behavior shouldn’t be considered Beta because they believe women are equally rational, equally forgiving, agents as men (really he is) are.
From Gut Check:
Whenever you feel something isn’t quite right in your gut, what this is is your subconscious awareness alerting you to inconsistencies going on around you. We tend to ignore these signs in the thinking that our rational mind ‘knows better’ and things really aren’t what they seem. It’s not as bad as you’re imagining, and you can even feel shame or guilt with yourself for acknowledging that lack of trust. However, it’s just this internal rationalization that keeps us blind to the obvious that our subconscious is trying to warn us about. Humans are creatures of habit with an insatiable need to see familiarity in other people’s actions. So when that predictable behavior changes even marginally, our instinctual perceptions fire off all kinds of warnings. Some of which can actually effect us physically.
It’s at this point most guys make the mistake of acting on the “good communication solves everything” feminized meme and go the full disclosure truth route, which only really leads to more rationalizations and repression of what’s really going on. What they don’t realize is that the MEDIUM is the message; her behavior, her nuances, the incongruousness in her words and demeanor (and how your gut perceives them) is the real message. There is an irregularity in her behavior that your subconscious is alerting you to which your consciousness either cannot or will not recognize.
I began the Alpha Tells post with the intent of recognizing how a woman behaves when she’s in the presence of a Man she perceives to be Alpha. A lot of men get hung up on trying to ‘act’ Alpha; wanting to ape (and hopefully internalize) the behavioral tells a more confident Alpha displays.
Consequently there’s a lot of debate about how men posture and how they naturally display these Alpha cues, but I think the best gauge of what defines those cues is not in men’s displays, but women’s behaviors and attitudes that are prompted by a perception of Alpha-ness.
And just as women will respond viscerally to an Alpha perception, they will also manifest behaviors which indicate her subconscious knows she’s dealing with a Beta aligned male.
It’s easy to pick apart what a guy thinks are his own Alpha tells, but it’s far more uncomfortable to dissect women’s Beta tells when they’re in the presence of men they perceive to be Beta. Much of what I’ll outline that follows will be hard to read for many guys, and as always you’re free to disagree.
My purpose here isn’t to bash Betas, rather it’s to increase awareness of women’s behaviors toward them. As I’ve explained above, try to put these behaviors into a Hypergamous context and how they would be perceived by women who’ve evolved to have an instinctual sensitivity to these Beta behaviors, as well as expressions of Beta attitudes in your words and emotional emphasis.
I could very easily compile a list of behaviors that are simply the reverse of the Alpha Tells I noted in the previous post, but it’s much more important to address the root reasons for these Beta Tells:
- Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?
- Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it?
- Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs?
- Has she explained to you how she was so different in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now?
- Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase?
- Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after she’s had better sex with you or a former lover when single)?
- Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?
- Will she have sex with you anywhere besides the bed?
- Do you perform oral on her to get her off more than you have intercourse?
- Is she a wide-eyed lover or does she squint her eyes closed while having sex? Is sex a chore for her to perform?
- If you’re married, did she assume your last name, or did she insist on a hyphenated surname for herself?
- When you’re together does her regular, unpracticed body posture indicate an openness or are you always having to break into her intimate space?
- Is she preoccupied with her side of the family or a certain pet in preference to being concerned with your well-being?
- Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it?
- Does she presume authority in your relationship? Do you accede this authority as a matter of (equalist) belief?
There are many more tells of course, and I hope more will be presented in the commentary, but it’s important to understand that these behaviors and attitudes are manifestations of a woman who on some level of consciousness understands that she’s dealing with a Beta man.
I should also mention that, as with Stephen’s case in Moments of Clarity, there are particular phases of a woman’s life when she becomes more attuned to dealing with Beta men due to perceived necessities on her part. A clear understanding of how these phases predispose women to convince themselves to be more accepting of Beta behaviors and a Beta mindset is imperative to avoiding the common pitfalls men encounter with regard to issues of Frame in their relationships.
Beta men are all too eager to believe they’ve matured into being a self-defined Alpha when a semi-attractive 29 year old in the midst of her Epiphany Phase is giving him wide-eyed indicators of interest in him. Only after she’s consolidated on that long-term security does he realize the plans her sexual strategy had for him.
Predisposition for Mate Guarding
One of the best Beta tells is how defensive a guy gets about the subject of mate guarding.
An Alpha has little preoccupation with mate guarding because subconsciously he knows he has sexual options. That applies both within and without monogamy. I’m presenting this here because the majority of what motivates Beta tells (and really a Beta mindset) is rooted in how men deal with a scarcity mentality. Beta tells are almost always indicators that a man believes he needs to guard his paired woman and thus telegraphs a Beta status to that woman as well as other women in her peer clutch.
Mate guarding, and its intrinsic set of subconscious suspicions and behaviors, is an evolved adaptation of ensuring paternity for a Beta-provider. These men must rely upon exchanging resources and external benefits for women’s sexual fidelity. In essence, it’s an unspoken awareness that Beta men must negotiate for what they hope will be a woman’s genuine desire in exchange for his provisioning, parental investment support and emotional involvement.
Beta men are aware on on a limbic level that Hypergamy dictates an Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks trade-off in women’s sexual strategy – thus a subconscious ‘mate guarding’ mindset evolved from Beta men’s heightened awareness of women’s preference for Alpha Fucks particularly around the proliferative phase time of women’s ovulation.
Paradoxically, the best assurance you have of fidelity with a woman is simply not to allow yourself to become exclusively monogamous with a woman and rather, have her make the efforts to pair with you under her own auspices you being Alpha. Romance is not required from a lover a woman perceives as Alpha, only his sexual interest – this represents a confirmation of Hypergamous optimization for a woman. The fuck-buddy dynamic – all sexual interests with no reciprocal expectation of emotional investment – is a strong Alpha tell for a man.
The best gauge for determining a woman’s perception of you as either an Alpha or Beta type is examining yourself and your feeling a ‘need’ to mate guard her, to appease her, or an impulse to correct yourself in order to align with her terms for intimacy. A scarcity mentality is the mental point of origin for a Beta mindset – and that internalized mental model will manifest itself in a predisposition for Beta behaviors.
There’s a common belief that even the most Alpha of men will at times slip into a Beta behaviorism. You can’t be ‘on’ your game all of the time, and while that’s true it doesn’t invalidate that women have a mental model of your overall, predominant condition being either Alpha or Beta. A predominantly Alpha frame and mindset (and yes, looks), plus an acknowledged (real or perceived) SMV primacy will cover a multitude of Beta sins, but the predominant Beta has the sisyphean task of convincing a woman he’s more Alpha than she pegs him for.
So to answer the man asking whether or not something he did was Beta, your answer really lies in your motivation for behaving ‘Beta’ as you did in comparison to how a woman perceives your predominant character.
November 14th, 2014 at 1:47 pm
xsplat,
“escalate when there is resistance”…..
Desire is unmistakable and there is no resistance to negotiate.
November 14th, 2014 at 1:56 pm
“Desire is unmistakable and there is no resistance to negotiate.”
Science says otherwise. It has been shown that women get aroused by a mans insistant arousal. Even when she is initially not attracted to him.
November 14th, 2014 at 1:59 pm
I have to wonder which commenters are actively dating, or have experience with successfully dating.
I can give example after example of when the pivotal moment which spiked attraction and devotion for me long term was an instance of mate guarding.
I can and I have. Some of the situations were rather ugly.
Women are well known for recounting stories of how after being physically hit in an instance of mate guarding that THAT is the moment they truly fell for their man.
There are even songs about it. “He hit me, and it felt like a kiss”
This is not some fantastic new news.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
“Desire is unmistakable and there is no resistance to negotiate.”
Whatever you do, don’t throw me in the briar patch.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:07 pm
xsplat,
Rollo has his blog. You have yours. There is nothing wrong with expressing your views anywhere. However, you are wasting your energy getting upset when some of us do not agree with you 100%.
You stated “This is not a religion people. Dissent is not only allowed, it is helpful.”
Yet with religious fervor you apparently do not allow people to dissent from your views.
Furthermore you stated that you had “been through the same song and dance on Heartise”. How many other bloggers views do yours disagree with?
Everyone has a right to his personal opinions and interpretations and to express them as he sees fit.
I agree with Tomassi’s explanations because they align exactly with my life experience and observations.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:12 pm
Ok, George, so I should shut up and let harmful views disseminate as the predominant meme?
Maybe I should have done the same years back on Heartistes blog?
Or on the Rooshvforum?
No thanks. I have a sense of duty to my fellow men.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:16 pm
As to mate guarding- I think there is a perfect way of understanding the when/hows of it.
If you are mate-guarding as protection- it is alpha
if you are mate guarding out of fear- its beta
If you are with a woman who flirts and gets flirted with and she handles it by flirting back or enjoy in it.. you basically have a very basic bitch. Mate guarding a woman who isn’t worth it is weak. Now if the guy hits on her and she doesn’t flirt back and if you sense she the guy is acting out of turn, mate guarding at that point is a form a protection- you are rescuing her in a way, which shows strength.
This happened to me a long time ago with my ex. At some theatre party some hot actor guy was trying to get in her pants. Eventually we left and she was upset and asked me why I didn’t do anything. I told her- “if you are uncomfortable, you come to me and let me know. I’m not going to supervise you. Walk away and come to were I am” she got the message.
Every party after that- and she was always getting flirted with, she was a beauty- she would regularly come to me, wrap her arms in mine etc. She learned what her mother failed to teach her, which is that a good woman stands by her man.
Mate guarding a flirty woman is a waste of time. Even the lowest tramp knows that that is pretty cheap behavior when you are out with someone. So a woman flirting is, again, lower value and you should see her as such and let it show. A good woman knows better.
Instead of seeing mate guarding as a beta/alpha tell.. see it as a madonna/slut tell.
Too much of the manoshpere is hell bent on buying the female imperative of making everything a guys fault. Everything some random slut does comes back to the guy not having done something or not being good enough etc. Bullshit. If she is acting cheap, she is cheap.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:17 pm
Oh, and maybe I also shouldn’t disagree with another of my Hero’s, Krauser, on his blog.
Because after all, it’s his blog and his views should be agreed with there.
Is that it?
That whole attitude of group-think is counter productive to our individual as well as group interests.
Dissent is invaluable. As is true argument. With real live real lived examples, as well as scientific studies backing up claims.
And both issues where I disagree – the only issues I can think of – mateguarding and escalation, I am squarely in the right on this one, and time will prove my ideas to be the correct ones.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:23 pm
context matters.
Last minute resistance is either a fitness test or it’s real. The trick is to tell the difference rather than simply being the guy who assumes it’s real every single time. And withdraws accordingly. Every single time. In my experience, everything that has happened to that point is fair game. You got to her somewhere, you lost her somewhere else, etc.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:27 pm
I think one thing that should be considered with regard to mate guarding is the presumption that mate guarding is a ‘defense’ against mate poaching by other, presumably more Alpha men.
Within that context it’s understandable. What woman wouldn’t be aroused by the prospect of being fought over by two men she perceives as Alpha rivals?
Where it turns into a Beta Tell is when a man’s lifestyle revolves around ‘keeping’ her for fear of losing her because she’s his only viable option for sending his genetic material into the future. That kind of mate guarding is the kind inspired by a scarcity mentality, for sure, but it’s also due to long evolved, subconscious sensitivities to her behavioral inconsistencies at or around her time of ovulation.
This is what Hasselton was getting into in her studies – ovulatory shift in mate preferences created an evolved sensitivity of them in men and produced contingency behaviors to ensure he wasn’t wasting his parental investment efforts with a child that wasn’t his own.
An evolved mate guarding sensitivity and contingent strategy was basically insurance against men’s cuckoldry.
I would argue that a contingent mate guarding strategy evolved not as a direct response to Alpha (or even Beta) competition stress, but rather due to women’s innate Hypergamy and their sexual pluralism and potential for parental investment deception.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:28 pm
And in case people missed it (I did at first), here is Rollo on the subject of mateguarding, as the well known and agreed turn on that it can be:
So now that He has said it (all praise His name), you can go ahead and accept the Truth from on high.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:44 pm
Another Beta tell- the desirability of your mate. The more unattractive/unpleasant your mate is, the more beta you probably are. It’s a feedback loop. I don’t think it was a coincidence that it’s always with the highest quality women that I have been most alpha. Being with a pretty and pleasant woman gives a man confidence in himself. Being with a lower value woman sends the message to a man that this is the best he can do.
I just realized this as I was writing about my ex. She was a solid 9 and if not for the fact that she truly hated children I probably would have married her. And I was the most alpha I had ever been. In contrast I dated a woman for a few months that was a 6-7 for while after her, and it was my most beta.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:47 pm
I’m of the opinion that women never engage in a “make him jealous” strategy forthe purpose of trying to arouse or to keep a man’s interest. Instead, a wife who is bent on divorce often initiates an affair for the purpose of putting a nail into the coffin of the marriage.
If a woman tried to make an alpha jealous, to try to make him serve her by working harder for her, I think we can all agree it would be a whole lot easier and more rational for him to next her and simply move on to one of his easier plates. And she knows it so she wouldn’t pull that stunt.
And why would a woman bother trying to make a beta jealous? He would be a lot more interested by the unusual spectacle of her preferring him. And she knows it, so even if she would pull that stunt it wouldn’t be for his interest.
November 14th, 2014 at 2:58 pm
dissent is good. the problem is when the arguments are weak, such as “Is your dog fungible? If you train up a dog from a puppy, would you just let some interloper come in and woo it away …”
interlopers are wooing dogs away? you prevent this by dog guarding? dog guarding is a alpha tell? what about other animals, hamster guarding, pussy guarding, cow guarding, ant guarding?
I got 99 problems but my dog ain’t one
November 14th, 2014 at 3:00 pm
Another realization- I guess I don’t want to rely on female cues for alpha/beta because having dated mostly latina women in Miami, I’ve found that you cannot rely on female behavior to tell you anything.
Latinas are awesome at making you think you are alpha- they have it down to a science- then shanking a guy in his back and twisting the shiv.
You date some Columbian/Cuban/Venezualan beauty and she will give you every alpha tell in the world.. she will rub your back, initiate sex, blow you in the car, scream your name and call you Papi, swallow your seed and cook you dinner… and laugh at you behind your back as she bangs your best friend and takes you for every cent you have- I have seen it so many times I am barely surprised by the turn around.
It’s like they are trained at this shit.
In nyc I am finding almost the opposite effect- there are alot of female victims of feminism..Decent women who just have no clue how to please a man or even taught that pleasing a man- feminine behaviors- are a bad thing. I dated a woman here for a short while who gave me too many beta tells and so I left her. The final straw was when I showed up to her place and she hadn’t even bothered to shower. She was lazy about texting replies etc and I assumed I was a beta to her and she wasn’t really interested. After I ended it, she showed up at my door crying- again I figured she was just playing her beta, but its been a year since and she still asks about me, has told a co-worker we both know that she still thinks of me and hasnt found anyone who makes her feel like I do, etc etc.
I think she was actually interested, but she has no knowledge of how a man should be treated to make him feel good about himself. She has reached out several times since the breakup..fishing I’m guessing, for a way back. But who wants to be a woman like that? It makes you feel shitty.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:01 pm
re: “Drunk Girl” hoax video.
Now we need a “10 Hours Of Stumbling As A Drunk Girl” hoax video. Actually, I’ve already seen a lot more of that than I ever wanted to.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:04 pm
@redlight, re: hamster guarding.
White Knighting is so manly! It’s, like, in the job description that the White Knight be a man!
November 14th, 2014 at 3:05 pm
@Hobbes – I had to train up a young woman who was similar to as you described. She dressed poorly, didn’t cook or clean, and was sexually retarded.
It took a big investment in training.
I am responsible for the woman that she became. And to this day she thanks me for the demands that I made on her.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:06 pm
xsplat,
Which blog is yours.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:10 pm
@Redlight, it is incomprehensible to me how the analogy eludes you.
Do you not have functioning normal human emotions? Or is your wiring such that you can’t parse analogies?
I could rewrite the analogy in a hundred different ways, but somehow I don’t think the communication problem is on my end.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:11 pm
@george – the xsplat one. Or just click on my name above this post.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:16 pm
“Mate guarding a flirty woman is a waste of time. Even the lowest tramp knows that that is pretty cheap behavior when you are out with someone.”
I have been going through this for the bulk of what has been an agonizing and very disappointing marriage up until about 12 mos. ago (largely thanks to the lessons here). It disgusted me. Totally humiliating and emasculating displays of flirtatious behavior with other men — even in my presence. Even suspect her of a past infidelity, but no hard proof. And man, I mate guarded hard. But it was from the worst possible place — needy as shit, lack of abundance mentality, fear, etc. It’s a downward spiral folks. The more I mate guarded, the less respect she had for me, the more I mate guarded. Let me tell you, it was agony.
What finally turned it around for me was simply turning the tables. I no longer mate guard at all, but I started matching her flirtatious behavior by ramping up my own flirtatious behavior. I started being completely open to the idea of fucking around on her. I amped up my SMV big time. Started talking and flirting with random women, both in her presence and not. Got in great shape and completely changed my fashion style. Really hot, really young, really beautiful women started blatantly coming on to me.
As a consequence, I rediscovered my abundance mentality and suddenly she didn’t look so great anymore. It required a Zen-like calm at first… Not getting bent out of shape when I saw she was flirting, but saying to myself, “okay, if this is how it’s going to be, then I’m going to aggressively pursue MY options also” and doing it at 10X the level she was.
And the most amazing thing happened. First she got pissed… Screamed and yelled. But now, SHE’S the one mate guarding! She’s the one asking if I’m fucking around on her. She’s the one who comes up and puts her arms around me when I’m flirting with some hot little number. She’s the one initiating sex. Now she’s the one always wondering what I’m up to, who I’m with, etc. I never thought this could happen as she was giving me just about every single Beta Tell on the list above.
She’s almost completely stopped her flirtatious behavior now because she’s seen that “cause and effect” too many times. She can be 100% certain now that the minute she gets a little too cozy with some Alpha, I’ll be at the other end of the room laughing, flirting and kino’ing some 22 year old stunner. At the same time, when her attention is on me, she gets my full attention… Reward the good behavior and punish the bad… Quickly and severely.
I ultimately had to initiate nuclear dread to get the behavior change I wanted. And at the end of the day, truth be told, I don’t even really care that much anymore. If I found out for certain that she was cheating on me, and I do still keep close tabs on her activity without her knowing… I’m gone. I now know for certain that I could be cock-deep in a bevy of young beauties within 48 hours.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:19 pm
xsplat,
Found it, already been there. So far it reads too much like a male version of cosmoplolitan or redbook (minus the foul wording) for my tastes.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:21 pm
@ Frito: I love these kinds of real life stories. Keyboard theorizing about how the rules of engagement really work are useless without practical knowledge.
Yes, that’s a key point – mate guarding from a position of weakness amplifies the weakness.
Mate guarding from a position of strength can also amplify that strength.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:26 pm
@xsplat
I think if she had been younger I would have been more willing to do so. My previous ex was 10 yrs younger and I taught her alot of things- but she was young and eager in that way young women are.. I was younger too, but I found it worth the effort.
This recent one was a tragedy- one of the nicest and probably kindest hearted women I had ever met, but the wall was right on top of her and she was surrounded- as most ny women are- by the eternally single female friends who validated her worst instincts.
Such a tragedy, this was a woman who was meant, more than average, to be a mother and a wife. And would have reaped worlds of happiness from it.. but it conflicted with her upbringing and social circle. It made her unhappy yet resistant to change and deeply sad. Knowing her made me sadder as well. Still does- such a tragedy what the modern Market has done to women. We talk about the damage it has done to men, as rightly we should.. but it’s not like these women are fulfilled, many are miserable following The Plan.
I know many people in the manosphere say they deserve no compassion etc.. but I have to disagree. I love women, and the FI, while being in service to women, has turned about and bitten them right on the ass.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:27 pm
Also @Frito, if you really don’t care if she cheats, that doesn’t bode well for the emotional health of your remaining relationship, in my opinion.
I understand the freedom that comes from having options. But when we get to the point where we really don’t even care about our relationships at all, that’s not ideal. Because it means you won’t be receiving the benefits that only come along with forming genuine caring bonds. And those bonds do leave us vulnerable.
Even when I’m fucking and dating several girlfriends, when one of them leaves me, it hurts. No matter how replaceable she is by someone else, people form bonds. Those bonds are one of life’s sources of joy and pleasure – and meaning.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:29 pm
Beta Tells
November 14th, 2014 at 3:30 pm
@Hobbes. Ya, I hear ya. The wall is a truly horrible thing. And women’s grouping together to fuck up their group lives is equally tragic.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:30 pm
@xsplat I wrote attacking the weakness of argument, and you reply with only personal attacks, which you have done elsewhere (such as “successfully dated” above). That is a weakness tell
November 14th, 2014 at 3:33 pm
@redlight – is it a personal attack on you to be amazed that you can’t understand the dog analogy?
Ok, fine. It’s a personal attack.
You still can’t understand the analogy.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:39 pm
I’m done.
Too fucking stupid.
November 14th, 2014 at 3:39 pm
@xsplat you debate like a feminist
November 14th, 2014 at 4:40 pm
@xsplat… Let me parse a bit more then. Sure I’d care if she cheats and I’d be disappointed and hurt. I’d be sad, because we have had some good times. I’d be sad for the breakup of the family, kids, and all of that. But I would no longer be devastated. More importantly, given what I now know I wouldn’t take it personally because I now understand that women DON’T love unconditionally. They aren’t the true romantics. Their hypergamous nature prevents that.
I’ve had to come to terms with the fact that she probably did cheat a few years ago (I really don’t think she is currently). It was pure torture having some evidence but not knowing for sure. Ultimately, to keep my mental sanity I had to get to a head space where I just had to let it go. I’ll likely never know for sure, but the mate guarding was just taking me backwards.
Let me put it this way: My conceptualization of our relationship (and more importantly myself) up until about 12 months ago was always through her frame of reference. If she was unhappy, I was unhappy. If she was flirting, it was because I didn’t measure up. Well, I didn’t measure up! Because I had fully bought into the constellation of beta behaviors that told me it was always about making her happy… And I clearly couldn’t make her happy. I didn’t measure up, but only because I had the wrong frame of reference — her frame of reference. I viewed my self worth through her eyes. Now I don’t. Her opinion of me no longer has any impact on my self worth.
November 14th, 2014 at 4:45 pm
@Hobbes: “I know many people in the manosphere say they deserve no compassion etc.. but I have to disagree. I love women, and the FI, while being in service to women, has turned about and bitten them right on the ass.”
Man isn’t that the truth… Had dinner last night at a bar and got talking to 2 fairly attractive single 29 year old women next to me. Their desperation was so palpable it was tragic. Dying to marry up and have kids but pursued the FI imperative instead. I really felt sorry for them.
November 14th, 2014 at 4:52 pm
@frito-“Her opinion of me no longer has any impact on my self worth.”
Isn’t that the ultimate alpha/beta tell? Nothing makes a man more beta than his self worth being dependent on a woman.
this is why I think a mans normal and natural inclination is towards alpha behavior. Self worth is a concept that is taught, not inherited. So men whos self worth are reliant on some external focus, such as a woman, is, by definition, taught to be that way.
November 14th, 2014 at 4:56 pm
@Hobbes… Bingo
November 14th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
Frito Pandejo – “Their desperation was so palpable it was tragic. Dying to marry up and have kids but pursued the FI imperative instead.”
And if they really wanted too they could choose differently. Their desperation is made worse by the new openness of hypergamy. They no longer can sell the lie of monogamous commitment. While I don’t doubt they want marriage and children today I wonder if they would want it if they actually had it. I wonder if they could commit to those responsibilities. I wonder if they could be a part of compromise that demands any sacrifice on their part.
November 14th, 2014 at 5:03 pm
@Frito, thanks for the eloquent expounding of your situation. Sounds like you’ve gone through some tough times and extreme growth.
It’s good to hear that you didn’t throw the baby out with the bathwater, and performed a calculated and important emotional retreat, rather than shutting down all emotions and all future possibilities of emotions.
I do the same basic thing when I don’t have the hand that I need in a relationship to a woman I’m attached to – loosen the attachments by seeing other girls. I’m quite fond of attachments, but yes, they can also be problematic.
I hate to see whole crowds of people having a group he-man-woman-haters-club pity party of relationship fail though, and proclaim a hopeless situation and that the only solution is to only have fuck buddies, pump and dump or go MGTOW. I tend to think that deep down most people would prefer more of a longer term sensual and emotional connection to a doting woman. Of course such setups are fraught with difficulties and as far as I know are mostly temporary. But they sure seem like the best option to me.
Ya, infidelity is a bitch. Seems you figured out all the right moves.
I’ve made some different moves in my past that worked out very well, but they were from a position of much greater hand. And like you I also had serious ultimatums and backup plans. My way or the highway.
November 14th, 2014 at 5:29 pm
@badpainter- its a cart/horse type of situation. Just as boys today take in alot of misinformation as to what a man should be and what works with women, women also receive a hell of alot of negative influences and information. As such alot of age old wisdom has been abandoned and thrown out leaving people today literally confused.
Just as men need to take a red pill to undo this conditioning, he has to first admit he has a problem, then he has to correctly identify the nature of the problem, but even that is not enough, he now has to work at actively changing himself. Women would, ideally, do the same.
But there is a huge difference- the FI has baked in some very good reasons for women to remain stuck and confused. See, for most men there is the pain of being screwed by the FI to egg him forward. When he is standing on the sidelines, getting passed over, living alone, not getting laid and worse- used/dumped and divorced after being a “good” beta..he has alot of motivation to change.
For women this is turned about- there is alot of social reward for remaining stuck and confused until it is too late.. and virtually no real hardcore pain. She is rarely alone, has beta orbiters giving her things and attention, she has a society that tells her she is innocent and its all mens fault etc etc..
Worse, she gets that message that the cure is the disease.
Are women blameless? hell no, I have sympathy, but only to a point. I don’t forgive womens personal bad behavior- since every person knows in tier gut what right and wrong is and everyone is responsible for their own choices. But neither do I sit around hating on them, and no longer am I even as angry as I used to be. I just acknowledge that things are what they are.I have sympathy for blue pillers who have yet to see the light, knowing, in the end that it will most likely comeback to haunt them. By the same token I realize that women are the ones who will pay their own price.
In the end having defined my expectations, desires and boundaries, I no longer have to be angry or threatened (anger is usually the result of feeling powerlessness or fear) since I have nothing I fear losing anymore.
The greatest thing about RP is that it allows you to man your defenses and proactivley defend yourself.
If just for that, the RP and Rollos blog are literal life savers.
November 14th, 2014 at 5:33 pm
@xsplat
“I hate to see whole crowds of people having a group he-man-woman-haters-club pity party of relationship fail though, and proclaim a hopeless situation and that the only solution is to only have fuck buddies, pump and dump or go MGTOW. I tend to think that deep down most people would prefer more of a longer term sensual and emotional connection to a doting woman. Of course such setups are fraught with difficulties and as far as I know are mostly temporary. But they sure seem like the best option to me.”
Yes. As Saul Goodman once said “I concur”.. with a caveat- that men must, at all times, be proactive in his defense and go into every situation with complete RP awareness. I have come to the realization that. given the amount of damaged women out there today, most likely finding one to make it work with s a long long long shot.. So if the opportunity arises, I’ll bite, but I am not holding out for it or seeking it. I seek meeting my needs in the here and now, and when it comes to tomorrow.. well… as I tell women I date now.. “we’ll see”
November 14th, 2014 at 6:04 pm
Hobbes,
The status quo sucks. Casualties on both sides. My only consideration can be my own life. Call me cynical but it seems many women bemoan not the choices they made, but rather the outcomes of their choices, as such my sympathy is reduced. Their plight is not my fault, not my responsibility, and not my problem. I get no joy from it, and don’t lose sleep over it. I am indifferent.
I’ve had conversations similar to the one noted by Frito Pandejo. None of the women involved struck me as good candidates for marriage or motherhood. Nothing in their words or demeanor suggest the ability to commit, or the even the willingness to do so. They all seemed very interested in the wedding, the baby shower, the fashion and accessories, the validation, and the status. The man who would be husband and father and the children were mere avatars for their own feelings, and material desires. The complete lack of substance is dissapointing but not surprising.
November 14th, 2014 at 6:09 pm
xsplat – “Of course such setups are fraught with difficulties and as far as I know are mostly temporary.”
And as such aren’t worth any great investment, or much concern beyond the merely amusing, and trivial. Ultimately it’s like a month to month contract/lease sort of fee/service schedule.
November 14th, 2014 at 6:25 pm
@Badpainter… Yes, and these two weren’t good candidates either. Completely self-involved. Showing me picture after picture of their selfies in some really extraordinary places (mountains, islands, etc.) but it was all about them. They were always the center of the frame with full on duck faces. Desperately trying to capitalize on their rapidly declining desirability as if they were still 20 years old.
They wanted the accoutrements and baubles of marriage – the ring, the dress, the “big day”, the baby (as an accessory to show off on Facebook), but clearly weren’t concerned with the attendant responsibilities – monogamy, commitment, etc. What was most remarkable was that they both had boyfriends, but I knew instinctively and beyond a shadow of a doubt, that had I wanted I could have banged either one of them.
So… At the same time they are lamenting their lot in life and rapidly approaching the wall, they are obliviously making the same Groundhog Day mistakes over and over again.
November 14th, 2014 at 6:27 pm
@badpainter- yes, I see your point and it’s been my experience as well. Which is I am not holding out for anything.
As a consolation prize we at least get a wide variety of pussy and thats one hell of a consolation prize. I’m reminded of what my mother once told me after I got dumped in high school- “men never lose, they just get to fuck someone else”
If this is the Game as the FI wants it, then we will adapt and make the best of it- men always have.
November 14th, 2014 at 7:03 pm
“Does she emasculate you in front of others by pointing out how wonderful, how successful or how attractive another man is?”
Fill in, “and he’s got such a beautiful wife too.”
November 14th, 2014 at 9:34 pm
I have little, if any experience in mate guarding, even when I was a married blue pill beta 25 years ago, and even less now, as I have been strictly spinning plates since ingesting TRP, but this discussion of mate guarding reminds me of a story I read a few months ago (but apparently has since been taken down) from a publicist for an NBA player whose team had recently won the championship. It was at a large venue (bowling alley?) that had been turned temporarily into a night club. The publicist (OP) notices that an attractive woman was following his client (NBA player) around for the past couple of hours. Her husband notices, too. Confronts wife making googly eyes at NBA, asks what’s going on. NBA says, “Your wife wants to fuck me.” No raised voices or violence, but security is called. Both man and wife asked to leave. Wife doesn’t want to and does not leave. Husband is still required to leave. Within 5 minutes, NBA and wife are fucking in office/bathroom/someplace. Story ends here. Publicist says that we obviously don’t know what happened afterwards. Those of us that have ingested TRP disagree. We have a pretty good idea of how it turns out. We can infer a number of things. Wife was an 8 or better – champion NBA players have much better thrown at them daily. If wife an 8, husband probably high beta provisioner, not much alpha because if he was alpha, he would’ve recognized what his wife was doing. After done fucking, wife most likely went outside to find husband waiting for her, and told him that nothing happened. NBA certainly used a condom. Marriage deteriorates and ends within 2 years due to loss of respect and/or further cheating from wife.
For those that argue that all mate guarding is “beta” and therefore ineffective, I will have to side with xplat here. I believe that if the husband in the above story when told by NBA of his wife’s intentions had grabbed his wife by the hair, twisted her arm behind her back and marched her out to their car that she would’ve fucked him like an animal later that night at home.
There probably wasn’t a man with higher SMV than the NBA player for over 500 miles. Height, income, intra-sexual competition, pre-selection – NBA has it ALL, and in spades. What does a man that is NOT all or any of these do? (Obviously, these kinds of situations don’t come up very often)
What do you think, folks? What to do and why?
November 14th, 2014 at 9:44 pm
“at a large venue … if the husband … had grabbed his wife by the hair, twisted her arm behind her back and marched her out …”
you believe things would go well if he physically assaulted his wife in a public place? Last week a friend of mine was telling me how some guy tried something like that and was jumped by three other guys, and wait until the legal system does it to him next
November 14th, 2014 at 10:35 pm
@khyfo
Its a false choice. Simple solution is don’t marry whores. If you find yourself married to one now, get a divorce. Once in that position nothing is a “right choice”.. just a bunch of bad ones
November 15th, 2014 at 12:07 am
@jf12
Thanks for responding.
I suppose I should of clarified. I understand the influence the FI has had on me.
I was confused about the Alpha aspect of mate guarding.
stuttie had an interesting response,
“If you’re the one grabbing her hand, kissing her, or putting your arm around her, then that is a form of mate guarding. If she is the one initiating the PDA then she perceives you as Alpha and of high value.”
I think I’m getting it now.
November 15th, 2014 at 12:09 am
@Kyfho, the situation had gone too far along. The man needs to show at a very early stage that he “just gets it”. He needs to let her know early on that he understands that all women can’t be trusted, and that he will never trust her completely, and that her actions will have consequences.
Showing such disrespect for him in public means he didn’t do his ownership job properly at the important early stages.
Maybe his years of constant errors could be fixed, but not completely on the spot.
But ya, physically manhandling her, if he wanted to keep her at that point, could be the best of all the poor options that remained to him.
November 15th, 2014 at 1:06 am
“physically manhandling her, if he wanted to keep her at that point, could be the best of all the poor options that remained to him”
criminal record, restraining order, pre-nup eliminated, no or limited access to his kids, she keeps the house and most assets, big support payments, potential damage to his career, but it is not important that his actions will have consequences? keep guarding your dog instead of letting your dog guard you
November 15th, 2014 at 1:13 am
@redlight, I believe you are sincere, and are possibly better informed than I, however I still can’t bring myself to believe what you say. It would seem to me that you are blowing up minor risks into major certainties.
None of that would be likely to happen. And if she did start to kick and scream and freak, then he could just let go and walk away – reading the situation on the spot.
November 15th, 2014 at 9:21 am
here you ho JF12, this will make some folks cranky…
• Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously? Yes all three, Girl#1 never fails to initiate sex the night before the other two come to visit. We are an over the top affectionate group though when I want their attention I command it… like get over here woman and take my hand or sit by Daddy etc. They take my arm, I don’t hold their hand, I grab them by the neck and direct them while we walk etc etc
• Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it? Yes and no. Girl#1 is in a female dominate profession but does have male co-workers. She is in this weird semi doctor loop and in those meetings, lunches etc she is the only girl. She is hot so guys orbit. Girls’# 2&3 work in male dominate profession, are good looking and therefore have orbiters. I am mature enough to accept it. However this has never been an issue and they are quick to remind their orbiters they are mine.
• Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs? Nope and sort of…. Girls’ #2 live together and watch a lot of weeknight football together. When their duty days line up. Pert certain this is not the kind of GNO Rollo is referring to
• Has she explained to you how she was so different in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now? LOL yep but not in the reformed carousel rider way. Both were up tight and nerdy. Girl#1 did go off the rails as a young girl but was well on her way of putting that past her when we meet. She is up front in saying she is with me because I am scarier than her past
• Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase? Yes but Girl#1 had one about her life many years before I came along back when she was having drinking issues. Nope, the other two are way to young
• Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after she’s had better sex with you or a former lover when single)? Nope or she’d be gone
• Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet? LOL my ejaculate is the prize and who get’s it is on a rotation
• Will she have sex with you anywhere besides the bed? LOL oh hell yea.
• Do you perform oral on her to get her off more than you have intercourse? Nope going down on girls is women work and I don’t do it. Nor do I worry about their orgasm or lack of orgasm.
• Is she a wide-eyed lover or does she squint her eyes closed while having sex? Is sex a chore for her to perform? Exact opposite for all three. In the last year no girl has been healthy and said no. Girl#1 has issues with her girl parts
• If you’re married, did she assume your last name, or did she insist on a hyphenated surname for herself? Non-issue but I would not marry a woman who wanted either
• When you’re together does her regular, unpracticed body posture indicate an openness or are you always having to break into her intimate space? Never noticed, don’t care; normally one of them is hanging on me, often more if possible. We are an affectionate lot. Guess that answers the question
• Is she preoccupied with her side of the family or a certain pet in preference to being concerned with your well-being? LOL they are all overly concerned with my well being and it annoys me to no end. I deal with it though and in a way it makes me happy because well it’s the polar opposite of my ex wife and comes from their regard for me.
• Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it? Again hard to say; all three are much younger than me and could pull another man with a quickness, 2 live by a Marine Core base that houses 2nd Recon so they could replace me with another SpecOp’s vet who is younger and closer to home and one works around doctors and the like but yet all three have elected to live a very outside the main stream lifestyle with me. In one case it has caused significant hardship with her family. If they are aware they have never mentioned it but I regularly hear things like feeling lucky to belong to me
• Does she presume authority in your relationship? Do you accede this authority as a matter of (equalist) belief? LOL all three have surrender their authority to me and seen an increase in the quality of their life. We are not equals in any fashion.
November 15th, 2014 at 3:03 pm
@Badpainter re: And as such aren’t worth any great investment, or much concern beyond the merely amusing, and trivial. Ultimately it’s like a month to month contract”
Kind of like not bothering to cough up the dough to buy the Blu-ray hard copy, but spend less money on renting several more entertaining flicks.
November 15th, 2014 at 3:09 pm
@Ton, thanks. About what I thought, from you. re: “Nor do I worry about their orgasm or lack of orgasm.”
Uniformly, this is an alpha trait. Women pursue *uncaring* lovers, *selfish* lovers. It is how women are. Guys who have to brag about how good they are at getting their woman off, at servicing their woman, how well they understand their woman’s body, like me, are uniformly beta.
November 15th, 2014 at 3:44 pm
@ khyfo
What do you think, folks? What to do and why?
Husband already lost the game because wife is slutty. If a slutty woman is around apex alphas, she will cheat.
Mrs. Gamer makes sure that she is never around apex alphas.
Mrs Gamer doesn’t do GNO, has no slutty friends, and there was no pre-cuckholding. When she is around lesser alphas, I’m always there, too. If she needs some mateguarding by me she will signal. I didn’t have to train her–she already knew what to do. She’s a unicorn–why would I have any other kind of woman? Yeah, I’m very picky and women know that and that’s partly why my SMV is higher than average for my age. And that’s also why a unicorn picked me many decades ago.
November 15th, 2014 at 3:50 pm
@ jf12
Mrs. Gamer asked me why I care about her orgasms. I told her that it’s because it gives me emotional satisfaction. My caring about her physical pleasure is in the context of my emotional pleasure.
November 15th, 2014 at 7:48 pm
I was out last night with a new plate and found myself observing different forms of mate-guarding. New plate loves to dance whilst I do not so it was a good opportunity to observe not only my own reactions/feelings to guys attempting to dance/hit on her whilst on the dance floor (none), but also others in the venue. It then came to me.
My context of mate-guarding as a 6’5″ 250 pound guy is probably totally different to the 5’7″ 165 pound guy. I’ve never felt the need to mate-guard in any shape or form – ever. Maybe the unspoken law of the club jungle is such that if a stray alpha or beta inappropriately manhandled or became overly sexually aggressive with my plate, there is the real possibility that he could get badly hurt.
When 99% of the time you are the biggest gorilla in the room, the smaller gorillas usually notice and are consciously aware of the danger.
November 16th, 2014 at 12:24 am
JF12 its not so much that I don’t care don’t care but I understand for Girl#1 its a complex operation. I don’t believe in “love” as the word is commonly used today but the girls are dear to me and I have both authority and responsibility over their well being, Some nights I cannot count the number of times she gets off, other days it isn’t going to happen. That’s her issue not mine. She appreciates how I handle her difficulties vs men in her past. It’s a non issue with Girls#2 & 3. Girl#3 practically cums on command
I come with references and I have a long track record of women enjoying me. I have no reason to suspect her not getting off is a failure on my part and the occasional poor performance doesn’t change that. The less experience a man has the more self induced pressure he has to preform. One of my troopers, young man with a low number was told he couldn’t fuck, couldn’t finger her right, couldn’t get her off etc. It was devastating to him. When something similar occurred to me I laughed it off because 300 or so other women would disagree.
Worrying about and taking responsibility for things beyond his ablity to affect and which are in no way his actual responsibility seems to be a beta hallmark.
Stuttie, ultimately I do not mate guard because #1 women are replaceable and #2 violence is my profession. The threat is unspoken. I will step in if one of my girls becomes upset but mostly when a man tries to poach my mates I wish the fella luck and laugh. Because I have three girls,and like you don’t dance many men will assume two are available and this is something that comes up every 2 months or so. The me wishing them luck not me breaking out my game face.
November 16th, 2014 at 6:13 am
The red pill concept is based upon realizations and fears
Well no. It is about giving up fear. If you know how it works there is nothing to be afraid of. Cautious? Well yes. Just as you would be cautious with a firearm.
November 16th, 2014 at 6:37 am
I’m of the opinion that women never engage in a “make him jealous” strategy forthe purpose of trying to arouse or to keep a man’s interest.
I agree up to a point. It is more about getting control or a shit test. My response was always:
“Go ahead. Try him out. If you like him better go for it.” That usually put a stop to that. Self-confidence is very attractive.
Same response when she was mad at me and would say. “I’ll get another guy.” Me: “OK.” End of conversation and end of discontent.
November 16th, 2014 at 7:27 am
He needs to let her know early on that he understands that all women can’t be trusted,
Women can be trusted. They can be trusted to be women. But if you are trusting that a dog will be a cat the odds do not favor you.
Further – the more you show her that you have other options the more she can be trusted.
In fact more women are like those sfcton describes than you would imagine.
“I like seeing you with other women. It makes me hot for you.”
A woman with that kind of attitude – if she can maintain it – is worth some trust.
November 16th, 2014 at 7:36 am
@ stuttie
Dude, sufficient numbers can always beat size. Some dude wants to take little old me? I whistle up the bouncers and constabulary. Betas have their uses.
I’m medium size, so if some large guy is hitting on Mrs. Gamer, I’m not gonna attack him. I might use intrigue, which is very effective. (e.g., tell the manager, “I saw him selling drugs in the head.”)
In any case, Mrs. Gamer is committed and there has never been any issue regarding mateguarding except on the dance floor with a drunk. The drunk was careless about sending his partner out wildly, colliding with Mrs. Gamer. The bouncer handled him.
I took Mrs. Gamer out dancing last night at a studio party. Mrs. Gamer changes up her dance partners a lot and I pay attention to what’s going on with her. If she seems happy, things are fine. If she signals that she needs help, I respond. The studio is a social circle venue, not a meat market.
November 16th, 2014 at 7:43 am
What does a man that is NOT all or any of these do?
Find another woman – on the spot – and starts getting friendly with her. That causes the wife to mate guard. If she is interested.
November 16th, 2014 at 7:54 am
theasdgamer
November 16th, 2014 at 7:36 am
My usual was to not be there when the sh*t came down. Never had to resort to violence. I could read the signals well enough in advance – sometimes days – to avoid it. The first mate says it is one of the things she really likes about me. I am her protector and do it seemingly without effort.
Sometimes all it takes is positioning. A step to the left can be enough. Moving over six inches on a bench.
Most of these “boys” if you just show a willingness to confront them well in advance of their committing will slink away. In fact that has been my experience with all of them.
November 16th, 2014 at 8:13 am
Because it means you won’t be receiving the benefits that only come along with forming genuine caring bonds.
Ha. Ha. Too funny. esp. genuine. They are genuine all right. When she feels she has to compete with other women. You must continually remind her by word and deed. Even better if she reminds herself.
“I like seeing you with other women. It makes me hot for you.”
November 16th, 2014 at 10:15 am
I was surprised at the number of women willing to share a man in such an open manner. Now that I am more active in conversations with higher tier men, most seem to have some personal story of a woman willing to share his affection. How many? Probably many more then we realize
trust and women is a weird topic…
November 16th, 2014 at 11:03 am
Reblogged this on sfcton's Blog and commented:
If you are into the Red Pill, Rollo at Rational Male is a must read. Right now, what I am impressed with is his list of female behavior toward a man to help men determine if she views you as Beta or not. I….. tend to dominate conversations ifin I am interested so I wanted to list my response to his check list here. My replies are in bold….
I could very easily compile a list of behaviors that are simply the reverse of the Alpha Tells I noted in the previous post, but it’s much more important to address the root reasons for these Beta Tells:
• Does she initiate sex or affection spontaneously?
o Yes all three. Girl#1 never fails to initiate sex the night before the other two come to visit. We are an over the top affectionate group though when I want their attention I command it… like get over here woman and take my arm or sit by Daddy etc. They take my arm, I don’t hold their hand, I grab them by the neck and direct them while we walk etc etc
• Does she entertain a large pool of “male friend” orbiters with the expectation of you being ‘mature enough’ to accept it?
o Yes and no. Girl#1 is in a female dominate profession but does have male co-workers. She is in this weird semi doctor loop and in those meetings, lunches etc she is the only girl. She is hot so guys orbit. Girls’# 2&3 work in male dominate profession, are good looking and therefore have orbiters. I am mature enough to accept it. However this has never been an issue and they are quick to remind their orbiters they are mine.
• Does she keep a core peer group of ‘girlfriends’ she insists on prioritizing over being with you? Frequent GNOs?
o Nope and again sort of…. Girls’ #2 live together and watch a lot of weeknight football together at their local watering hole. When their duty days line up. Pert certain this is not the kind of GNO Rollo is referring to
• Has she explained to you how she was so different in college and how she’s glad those days are behind her now?
o LOL yep but not in the reformed carousel rider way. Both were up tight and nerdy. Girl#1 did go off the rails as a young girl but was well on her way of putting that past her when we meet. She is up front in saying she is with me because I am scarier than her past
• Is she experiencing her Epiphany Phase?
o Yes but Girl#1 had one about her life many years before I came along back when she was having drinking issues. Nope, the other two are way to young
• Does she cite “mismatched libidos” as a reason for her lack of sexual interest in you now that you’re married or living together (even after she’s had better sex with you or a former lover when single)?
o Nope or she’d be gone
• Is she averse or repulsed by your ejaculate being on her skin, in her mouth or overly concerned with soiling a bed sheet?
o LOL my ejaculate is the prize and who get’s it is on a rotation
• Will she have sex with you anywhere besides the bed?
o LOL oh hell yea.
• Do you perform oral on her to get her off more than you have intercourse?
o *Nope going down on girls is women work and I don’t do it. Nor do I worry about their orgasm or lack of orgasm.
• Is she a wide-eyed lover or does she squint her eyes closed while having sex? Is sex a chore for her to perform?
o Exact opposite for all three. In the last year no girl has been healthy and said no. Girl#1 has issues with her girl parts
• If you’re married, did she assume your last name, or did she insist on a hyphenated surname for herself?
o Non-issue but I would not marry a woman who wanted either
• When you’re together does her regular, unpracticed body posture indicate an openness or are you always having to break into her intimate space?
o Never noticed, don’t care; normally one of them is hanging on me, often more if possible. We are an affectionate lot. Guess that answers the question
• Is she preoccupied with her side of the family or a certain pet in preference to being concerned with your well-being?
o LOL they are all overly concerned with my well being and it annoys me to no end. I deal with it though and in a way it makes me happy because well it’s the polar opposite of my ex wife and comes from their regard for me.
• Is she consciously aware of being 1-2 points above your own relative SMV? Is she overt about it?
o Again hard to say; all three are much younger than me and could pull another man with a quickness, 2 live by a Marine Core base that houses 2nd Recon so they could replace me with another SpecOp’s vet who is younger and closer to home and one works around doctors and the like but yet all three have elected to live a very outside the main stream lifestyle with me. In one case it has caused significant hardship with her family. If they are aware they have never mentioned it but I regularly hear things like feeling lucky to belong to me
• Does she presume authority in your relationship? Do you accede this authority as a matter of (equalist) belief?
o LOL all three have surrender their authority to me and seen an increase in the quality of their life. We are not equals in any fashion.
There are many more tells of course, and I hope more will be presented in the commentary, but it’s important to understand that these behaviors and attitudes are manifestations of a woman who on some level of consciousness understands that she’s dealing with a Beta man.
http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/11/beta-tells/
*It’s not that I don’t care don’t care but that I understand Girl#1 has intermittent difficulties achieving orgasms. Sometimes I cannot count the number of times she gets off and other times it isn’t going to happen. I take this in stride and don’t assume it’s a failing on my part. She enjoys herself anywhichway and sometimes there is an unrealistic overemphasis on lady orgasms.
This comment by Zelcorpion is a killer and another useful tool for men to evaluate their standing:
In my opinion – though we comply the Alpha state only in the inter-sexual viewpoint – there are 4 major points of Alpha – and all have to be checked:
1. Being Alpha in his dealings with men (many guys manage that not being doormats or complete wallflowers)
2. Being Alpha in job – again quite a few successful guys manage that
3. Being Alpha in short-term mating – here sometimes having very good looks, fame or local higher status is sufficient to get laid 100 times more than the best PUA Alpha
4. Being Alpha in a LTR with every woman and with your family / children – this is the area in which most guys fail – even men who have mad fortunes and are attractive enough to pull quality women all the time
http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/11/beta-tells/comment-page-2/#comment-67921
I readily own up to failing with #4 during my 1st marriage. I do keep frame with female kin folk, including my daughter. Not claiming it makes life better but it keeps a man’s sense of self intact.
November 16th, 2014 at 11:04 am
[…] http://therationalmale.com/2014/11/11/beta-tells/ […]
November 16th, 2014 at 8:41 pm
walawala
November 12th, 2014 at 10:07 am
Major beta tell: buying gifts in the hopes of “winning” a girl’s love.
Funny enough I did that with my first GF and she told me in no uncertain terms that it was a big no no and very unattractive. And it was in ’62 mind you when all this stuff was relatively unknown.
November 17th, 2014 at 7:01 pm
Rollo,
How do you explain the near *ubiquitous* mate guarding by our ancestral Alpha males? Can you think of any Alpha males who did not unleash harsh retribution to any would be male interlopers? Historically human females have been both hoarded and guarded vigorously.
Additionally, in the animal kingdom a prominent feature of Alpha behavior is the guarding of his female harem.
I understand the futility of it in today’s society, but it’s such a common feature of our most successful ancestors that I can’t see how one can call in a ‘Beta Tell’.
What, were all histories Kings and Conquerors ‘Betas’?
(Ps yes I read your article on the subject)
November 20th, 2014 at 6:58 pm
Great stuff, as always. My father was an Alpha who, through decades became a Beta and truth is, as a 70-something year old man, my brother and I have noted, he is a SHELL of a man he once was. Our mom is a complete psycho that somehow took the reigns of the marriage. Sadly, she will bury him and go on to live for another decade probably.