“Don’t be mad E. It’s not our fault you were born without the sport fucking gene, come on.”
At the start of July, 2011 (a month before I began this blog in earnest) I took a backpacking trip through the Great Smokey Mountains in Tennessee and North Carolina. This was due to my desire to unplug, go off the grid and get back into the real face-to-face world. It was only for 10 days but well worth burning 10 days of PTO for.
It was an educational experience meeting people, most of whom have very little online presence beyond using Twitter or FaceBook occasionally. I didn’t have cell service for most of the hike. The people I met along the way, and I’ll put this politely, were “salt of the earth” people. Some were other hikers, others were people who lived and worked in the few surrounding communities. It was good to reaffirm my ability to survive on my own and realize that there is a whole world of Men out there who live well, far beyond the influence of “men” who’ve never mowed their own lawns, much less lived by their own wit in the country. Guys who build muscle by working outdoors, not in a gym. I met beautiful women who worked in small diners you’ll never hear of. I fished rivers and streams, for dinner some nights, and I saw fireflies for the first time (I grew up in southern California, it’s a novelty).
At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame. We’re far too insulated by the Buffers of technology. Even the more belligerent rednecks I encountered still preferred to text their girlfriends and came off as pussified for doing so.
I guess what I’ve come to realize is that we tend to view what we ‘know’ about men and women from the experiences we have reported to us from all over the world on blogs, forums, the manosphere – and I still endorse the purpose of it’s unwritten mission – however, this trip reaffirmed for me that there is no substitute for real interaction. Game will work equally well with the cute blonde serving coffee in a rural diner as it would with the club girl in NYC. Both are equally given to the same feminine fundamentals we’ve untangled about women in the ‘sphere for over a decade, but the one we tend to use as a female archetype is the typical club girl for our examples. Daisy Duke is still subject to hypergamy, she just applies it differently.
I’m not turning into Roosh, but I’m considering burning a couple months doing the entire Appalachian trail all the way to Maine.
In my day to day life I deal with a lot of rich men. Every patron or boss, every general manager I’ve dealt with for the past 15 years has been a millionaire. The primary owner of one of my liquor brand is that many times over. None of the “business friends” I shoot golf with have weeded their own lawns or installed a radiator in 20+ years. When I was on the trail I thought about how ridiculous it would be to see a guy like that or some PUA guru having to dig his own toilet and take a dump in the woods, or hoist his pack in a tree so the damn bears don’t eat the only food he’s got for the next 3 days. These guys are insulated.
I want to run, and fight, and fuck, as well as I deal with the ‘civilized’ things I do. Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.
Game and Circumstance
I start off with this today because this experience wasn’t just humbling, but it also taught me that what I experience day to day isn’t at all what a majority of men experience. My past, my N count, my 18 year marriage, and what I do professionally sets me apart in a way that I sometimes don’t appreciate or take into consideration when I’m advising men.
It’s also very humbling and affirming when I receive emails or comments from men living in countries I’ve only seen in pictures who nevertheless share a common male experience that reinforces many of the things I write about – but even within that commonality, I have to remember, my circumstance is not theirs.
I walk through a casino almost every day now and I see the same people. Not the fun glamour you see in commercials or ads about Las Vegas (that’s usually night promos), but the real people, the overweight, housekeeping and table crew, the geriatric spending their savings and social security on a hope they’ll win something significant, the desperate and the people just looking for distraction.
I walk by some of these men and think “how is Game going to help a guy like that?” While I do believe that Game is universally beneficial on many levels (primarily between the sexes, but not exclusively) there’s a point where that improvement is going to be limited by a guy’s circumstance, where he is in life and what he’s made of it so far. It’s a manosphere cliché now, but most men aren’t ready for the red pill. The red pill awareness is simply too much for them to accept within the context of their circumstances.
That circumstance isn’t based on age or a particular demographic, but Game is only going to be as liberating for a man in as far as he’s willing to accept it in terms of his own circumstance.
Not Just Sex
Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings.
That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy, nor is it what most (80%+ Beta) men even have the capacity to actualize for themselves. But, as Game has evolved, it isn’t just about Spinning Plates, or sport fucking, it’s more encompassing than this.
Game is, or should be, for the everyman.
“He only wants me for sex” or “I need to be sure he’s interested in me and not just sex” are the admonishments of women who really have no introspective interest in how a majority of men really approach becoming intimate with women. Oh it makes for a good rationale when women finally “want to get things right” with a provider, but even the excuse belies a lack of how most men organize their lives to accommodate women’s schedules of mating.
Mostly to their detriment, the vast majority of men follow a deductive,but anti-seductive, Beta Game plan of comfort, identification, familiarity and patience with women in the hopes that what they hear women tell them is the way to their intimacy will eventually pan out for them. Their Beta Game plan is in fact to prove they “aren’t just in it for the sex” in order to get to a point of having sex with a particular woman.
I always find it ironic when men tell me that their deductive plan for getting after it with a woman is to prove he’s not actually trying to get after it with her. However, this is what most men’s Game amounts to; deductively attempting to move into a long term monogamy based on what women, saturated in a presumption of gender equalism, tell him he ought to expect from himself in order to align himself with her intimate interest.
I could use the term “appeasement”, but that’s not what most men want to call it. Most men call it being a better man (for her), better than “other guys” who wont align themselves accordingly. It becomes their point of pride in fact.
Male Long Term Security
Most men, average men – and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense – want a form of security.
Most men are designed, perhaps bred, to be necessitous. To be sure , men need to be constant performers, constant qualifiers, in order to mitigate hypergamy. In the past, and to an extent now, this performance simply became a part of who he was as a man and didn’t require a constant effort, but increasingly, as male feminization has spread, men have been made to be necessitous of security.
I would say that desire for long term security differs significantly from women’s Beta Bucks side of hypergamy need since the drive to secure provisioning is an innate part of women’s firmware. The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards – and ultimately avoid feminine rejection.
In today’s feminine-centric social order, men are ceaselessly bombarded with masculine ridicule, ceaselessly reminded of their inadequacies, and endlessly conditioned to question and doubt any notion of how masculinity should be defined – in fact ridicule is the first response for any man attempting to objectively define it.
It’s this doubt, this constant consideration of his own adequacy to meet the shifting nature of women’s hypergamic drive, from which stems this need for security. The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.
The average man will look for, or create his own rationales to salve this necessitousness. He’ll create his own ego in the image of what he thinks he embodies best as being “Alpha” or he’ll adopt the easy doctrines of equalism which tell him women and men are fundamentally the same rational actors and convince himself he’s not subject to the capricious whims of feminine hypergamy because men and women are more ‘evolved’ than that– but that nagging doubt will manifest when the right circumstances and right opportunities present themselves.
Changing Your Programming
I mention in the book that I am not a motivational speaker, I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be the self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not Rollo Tomassi’s success stories, but their own success stories.
That said, let me add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will, they can be masters of their circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.
With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.
You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.
You can unplug.
You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.
July 16th, 2014 at 2:30 pm
So would you say that for women, arousal isn’t a ‘one-size-fits-all’ proposition?
July 16th, 2014 at 2:32 pm
SteveH- “Or maybe this guy is just genuinely friendly and social with women AND men. Without any agenda, other than the fact that he – like all men – would prefer the outcome of getting laid that night.”
Absolutely true. Everything you said.
But if we out on the town there was an agenda. The only noticeable difference was if we were in class he’d chat up any of the girls without concern for what came next, just a friendly guy. At the bar if he wasn’t making headway he’d find a way out of the conversation as quickly and smoothly as possible and on to the next target. Several times I saw him get rejected he’d shrug and say “eh, easy come easy go.”
Succeed or fail he was going to have a good time.
July 16th, 2014 at 2:56 pm
@Rollo,
Another sometimes interesting blog you may wish to skim through from the culture (nurture) angle:
http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/?m=1
July 16th, 2014 at 3:46 pm
“I also don’t subscribe to the Roissy model of confidence being itself the source of arousal, but rather that physical bearing and appearance are rewarded by female attention, thus increasing sexual options and thus increasing confidence.”
I wonder why Roissy tries so hard to delude himself and suppress the idea of good looks on his blog. I mean, I get that it’s a game blog but he should get rid of his head line, “Where pretty lies perish”. I think he secretly knows the importance of the things you can’t change (looks and height) because in doing so, it would probably destroy his world view of game reigning supreme above all. Old men get more conservative as they grow older and having your world view changed could result in a lash of bitterness onto the word.
Come to think of it, that might explain the malicious quality of his writing now. Compare his posts from 2013-2014 to those from when he first started blogging. It almost seems like a different guy. In the beginning he seemed filled with an excitement towards life and women but as the years past, and reality stuck its shiv down his idealistic mentality, something changed in him. His posts on Love and bonding are practically non-existent now and he’s approach to game is much more clinical.
July 16th, 2014 at 4:08 pm
NahReally proposes an alternative universe in which cavewomen chased after pretty caveboys “People back in the day didn’t have time for courtship, they perceptually went after what they found to be good looking in another mate.”
July 16th, 2014 at 4:09 pm
Professor VonHardwiggs opines “Compensation does compensate, except when I say it can’t.”
July 16th, 2014 at 4:17 pm
@caprizchka, I appreciate your comments at 1:30 pm. To prove it, I admit that as a young volcano I for one very much wanted a nice young virgin to ignore her survival by flinging herself into me.
Your casual mention of prostitutes causes me to amend my statement regarding women reacting properly to niceness. Although most prostitutes are too hardbitten by life in general, a large fraction are very nice and appreciative of niceness in men.
July 16th, 2014 at 4:21 pm
@el, I can’t. It won’t let me log on anymore even for that. No tricks.
You do know that I was talking to a man who was projecting his view of how men-as-people behave onto women? Moreover, I don’t believe you actually disagree with my interpretation of when women say they want to be treated as a human instead of sexually.
July 16th, 2014 at 4:34 pm
Narec,
Thank you for clarifying your position. This might be long, so I will make it my last thoughts on the subject.
Yes, I understand the concept of the Halo effect. It is not a new concept. It has been known that good looking people are assumed to be smarter, nicer, more moral, etc, for a long time, despite the obvious evidence they are not.
My issue with your position is the extremities to which you carry it’s perceived effects:
“A good looking guy would literally have to shit himself in front of everyone to not be immediately positively welcomed, while the ugly guy would really have to be someone special not to be completely ignored.”
Narec…really?
A guy has to let loose his bowels in public to counteract his good looks? We talking normal human being here, or some Greek god of handsomeness off the 10 scale?
This is what I mean. You are so convinced that looks mean everything that it undermines your point. You take it’s effects to a ridiculous extreme, and thus feel ok talking yourself out of even trying.
Again, everyone here agrees good looks do not hurt you with women. It helps you, no doubt. As a starting point, with nothing else in the can, it’s probably the best place to be. So, yes, I understand. I get you.
But if you don’t think that body language, attitude, charm, confidence, audacity, social connections, success, etc. matter, you are kidding yourself.
“The ugly guy playing the social butterfly will be PERCEIVED as tryhard and compensating. Understand?”
I understand what you are saying, but I don’t agree with it, because you are setting the terms to be black and white; Alpha god verus nebbishy loser; polar opposites; fixed in stone. There lies your problem I think.
First, I believe the example you initially gave was between a handsome guy, and an average guy. Now, you state it’s an ugly guy. That’s moving goal posts.
Second, you assume the second guy has no real charm, confidence, wit and comes off as awkward. To you, he’s not handsome, so NO other traits or skills he possess matter. He can’t possibly have any charm or Charisma. Charisma is all about looks, and nothing else.
Sorry, but that is bullshit. It is. It has proven throughout history that Charisma does not rely on good looks. They don’t hurt, mind you, but Charisma is a larger, more complex animal.
“But the entire point is that people’s Halo Effect perceptions are completely independent of how sociable, funny or “confident” the person actually is.”
Yes, but those are INITIAL reactions. Do you not get it? Once someone has to open their mouth, to interact, other things come into play. How many stand-up comedians are what you would call handsome? Do people not laugh at them because they think, “He is not a looker. He CAN’T be funny, so I will not laugh.”
The example I gave you of the handsome guy, as described, was NOT someone who would be perceived as laid back, mysterious and unimpressed. He would come off as socially awkward and inept. You choose not to see that even as you read it because you are convinced that any guy who is handsome is going to get all the woman you might desire without him even trying and despite any other flaws, so why bother trying yourself. Well guess what, if you don’t try, you make it all the easier for him, good looking schlub or not.
After the looks, as a socially awkward guy or one with a shitty personality, once interaction begins, he will begin to slip a bit. Now, being a 9, let’s say, if he drops 2 points because of his awkwardness or unpleasant nature, he’s certainly better off than if he is a socially awkward 7 who drops those same 2 points.
My point, and I think other’s as well, is that factoring in Game concepts, a physical 9 with a lack of Red pill awareness and good personality and a 7 with Game skill can at the very least meet at 8. With enough Game cache (social proof, confidence, charm, etc.) even a 6 guy could hit the 8 mark, and if he made the most of his looks with getting into shape, maybe even approach 9. The 7 guy could easily make that 9 WITH work.
Do you understand that dynamic? It agrees with you that looks matter in the equation. It just takes some acknowledgment that there are other things in play for woman that matter.
You cited your studies regarding the Halo effect. How about all the ones Roissy, Rollo and others have cited regarding the other traits women find attractive in men besides looks? They all mean nothing and your Halo effect is all? And you know this how? Personal experience?
If so, I wonder if part of the issue is that you are overreaching with your attempts. I don’t know about PUA instructors, but I know Roissy and I think Rollo have made it clear that Game is, again, not magic. It alone will not make up a deficit of more than 3 points, and even that may be tough to bridge.
Are you hitting on only 9’s and 10’s? Are you a 7? A 6? What do you perceive the point gap to be? If you’re a 6 who will not settle for anything less than a 9, you have set yourself quite the bar there. When it comes down to it, I wonder if no matter any potential success you have, you will always fixate on and resent that 9’s and 10’s don’t flock to you, even if you could manage a 7 or 8.
I don’t know what you are, point wise. You would have to do an honest appraisal of yourself and the women you are approaching.
Maybe it is the feral desire thing that is messing with you. Is it your opinion that unless a woman’s initial reaction to you is unbridled lust, it is pointless to pursue? I actually kind of get that on one level. I do. Everyone wants to be a object of insatiable desire and when you’re not and someone else is, it’s a little bitter.
If that is in the end your point, unbridled lust from the get go, then I concede that yes, most men will NEVER be able to get that initial, immediate, raw reaction from women, particularly the higher they go up the 10 scale.
So what? What do you do now?
Give up?
If you can’t have a 10 grabbing at your crotch at a party when you walk by, ready to jump you on the spot, there is no point in trying? If you have to actually work a bit to get that interest and desire going, will you turn it down if it comes later? If that interest only comes from a 9 or 8, and one you had to work to get excited, are you still uninterested? If a 7 gets all randy at your 8ness, arrived at by fitness, style and Game, are you going to send her away?
Anyway, said my piece. While I was very animated in my response to you, I am not being confrontational. I think you have brought up a valid contention for the Game crowd to keep in mind. I think ANY theory or line of reasoning should be able to stand up to competing thoughts, and what you did was just that.
Nice conversing with you.
July 16th, 2014 at 4:34 pm
@el, I hope you knew I did think of you, baiting you, when I posted that exact comment, but I didn’t think you read here. This is the floor of my unsilent sea, and these are my ragged clawmarks.
I have eaten the mermaid’s peach while she sang to me. So, there’s that.
July 16th, 2014 at 4:37 pm
Oh, btw I won’t detail trouser unrollings or anything, so no worries.
July 16th, 2014 at 4:53 pm
BTW, el could vouch if she would that a mere 5% of my life ago I too thought looks were the only key.
July 16th, 2014 at 5:27 pm
I definitely see what @narec is saying and do observe it myself, but:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040316072953.htm
July 16th, 2014 at 5:55 pm
In biology, when it is absolutely essential for survival (and reproduction), every evolvedly-efficient biochemical pathway has a backup, a fallback, a dirt trail alternative to the efficient highway. The marked pickiness of women with respect to men’s looks is an extremely efficient filter for sexiness, as we all agree. But, the *problem* of an extremely filtering filter is that it passes so little through.
Hence behavioral clues may be the dirt trail to sexiness for most men.
July 16th, 2014 at 7:57 pm
Rollo, I appreciate you paying more than the usual bare minimum lip service to looks, but this redirection towards body and fat % is a bit disingenuous. It implies any guy can become good looking if they work hard enough in the gym. The fact is, most guys in the club/social setting are decently slim (unlike girls), and 90% of male attractiveness is above the neck. I’m talking about facial symmetry, jaw shape and shape, skull dimensions, eye shape, brows. Girls want guys with defined jaws, thin eyes, thick and low-set brows. Basically approaching the male model ideal. This is what pushes girls attraction buttons the same way Axelle Despiegelaere pushes ours. “Hot guys” are facially attractive, first and foremost.
July 16th, 2014 at 8:22 pm
Seraph:
I appreciate you acknowledging my points
When you say that a 9/10 guy drops to a 7/10 if he’s introverted, what are you basing this on? Wishful thinking or actual evidence? If speed dating studies show that introversion vs extroversion have no effect on perceived attractiveness, whereas Looks have the greatest effect, it means that girls place a much lower value on personality than you believe (despite what girls themselves claim). You’re projecting your world view here (as am I – I admit).
Secondly, it all comes back to hypergamy. It is generally well accepted that an average girl (5/10) can score a 7/10 guy due to higher male sex drive and desperation. She can do this at 2:00am on a Tuesday. There is no scarcity for her.
So while Rollo cites a hypothetical scenario where a hot guy with “game” (again, the proponents of this term are shying away from defining it in practical terms rather than as a religion or philosophy) beats an equally hot guy with no game, this situation isn’t very applicable to most guys here. The issue is that our 5/10 girl has hooked up with several 7/10 guys in the past, and that’s what she rates herself, so if you’re not AT LEAST that good looking, you can go fuck yourself, because nothing you “game” her with will make a difference. This is besides the fact that an attractive guy will INVARIABLY have more social experience, and be less inhibited than an ugly guy – these hypothetical autistic male models who piss themselves talking to girls simply don’t exist.
July 16th, 2014 at 8:55 pm
Narec, I feel your pain. I was already a short guy to begin with but when I started to lose my hair rapidly, it was close to over for me. I work out and I achieved a great build due to my boxing regimen but because of my height and lack of hair, I still struggle with women my age. I’m 21 and it’s damn near hell for a guy with my circumstances. I don’t want to run some pity party here, but most guys will never understand just how debilitating it is to have just 2 out of the 3 the cardinal sins in what makes a man physically unattractive. Mines being short and bald. I doubt I would ever get fat, since I don’t have the body for that, but nonetheless it doesn’t help.
I remember when I first started to shave my head, I was 19 at the time. I went to my cousin’s house to catch up since It had been a while since I last seen him. He told me about this one girl who I use to game back 2 years ago and how she still remembered me. I never got to bang because my cousin was third wheeling all the time but I could tell it was possibility. He got her phone number for me and when she heard me on the other end of the phone, she instantly lit up with a musical cheery voice.
She asked me all these basic questions and near the end of our phone call, she wanted to meet up. I told her a time, date,place and she was pretty stoked about it. I could tell just from her voice. Around this time, I had already read the Mystery Method and Double Your Dating so I was well equipped with some game at the time. I met her and within 5 minutes, I could feel her attraction slipping away. I knew I looked a lot different than when I had my thick dark hair but I was still as charming as ever. But as Rollo and many other truth sayers on here, the younger a women is, the more she values looks above all…
She started to shit test me non-stop and stopped compliing to anything I threw at her. After a while, she began to ignore me and said she had to meet a friend at a club. Turns out she had a plan B and ended up banging him instead. I knew this from her friend at the time who also told me not to talk to her again. I remember we took pictures at the place and she ended deleting them right out of her facebook.
I didn’t fit the physical requirements of her social circle. She was a universal 8. A young and pretty girl has no room for any ugly guys in her circle. She’ll tolerate average but not ugly. It taints her social standing. I look back at experiences like this one and I realize its nothing personal. It’s simply a power move all women play to get the best out of life.
July 16th, 2014 at 11:23 pm
@SeraphI agree with you somewhat but let’s be honest. If you are not an 8 9 or 10 you are furniture to 100 per cent of the hot women in a club.
July 17th, 2014 at 12:47 am
@narec I would agree with you if I single handedly didn’t see my tall pretty boy friends get turned down because they were ‘squares’ or didn’t pass shit tests.
They have obstacles to overcome to.
I have another friend 5’10′” probably 140lbs who’s been in a relationship for 2 years with a 8.5. He is not an 8 facially probably 7.
I bet you can find examples as well
Looks help a lot. It isn’t everything and doesn’t secure a girl
July 17th, 2014 at 1:47 am
@Max Power
“I agree with you somewhat but let’s be honest. If you are not an 8 9 or 10 you are furniture to 100 per cent of the hot women in a club.”
Okay, so one more short response.
I see limiting factors laid out from you like Narec.
For one, define ‘hot’…
As I mentioned to Narec, if a 6 or 7 guy is ONLY interested in 8, 9 or 10’s, you are setting up your own failure. You have to lower sights or raise your own bar. Game teaches people those numbers mean something, and you have to find a way to raise your own SMV, while chipping away at your target, especially when many women’s SMV’s are self inflated.
I am not the first guy to write this, but to somewhat quote Roissy, if you are 6 used to getting 5’s, or used to not getting anything at all, getting a 7 is a huge improvement, no?
When I was in celibate hell years ago, getting a 7 into my bed would seem miraculous. I think most guys in the same position would agree. You crawl before you walk.
Two, it seems like a club atmosphere is a brutal environment to try and outdo looks, right? Clubs are freakin’ LOUD, you can’t hear two out of three words anyone says, so of COURSE it is based on looks primarily. In the land of the deaf-mute’s, looks are king.
Having said that, let’s assume you are not the best looking guy in the club, but you KNOW how to dance, how to move your body. How many guys really do. You think that counts for NOTHING?
Picture it.
Biff Manmeat is standing to the side of the dance floor, just holding a beer, or he’s flailing away with the white man’s overbite while you are actually able to tango with a chick. Again, you think that counts for nothing?
Let’s say you come to the place with a cute female friend, or a couple of them from work. They got boyfriends or whatever, but who the hell knows that in the loud club. All people can see is you hanging out with a couple of cute chicks.
The first time I started making out with a women I had never met before was when I showed up with a couple of women from work. One was a hot Norwegian or Swedish girl (pre-selection). We were not into each other, but were simply playing pool and hanging out (social proof). Before I know it, I am making out with a cute red head I’d never met before. This way when I was already dating someone at the time (outcome independence). Yeah, I was such a cad (not).
Coincidence?
I think not.
I am not a big ladies man, nor a hunk, but I notice that when I show up for my friends annual Halloween party, dressed as a menacing bad boy figure, and several female friends exclaim their glee at my arrival, I suddenly have a woman 10 years younger than me following me around, hitting on me. And no, she was not a troll either.
Coincidence?
Whatever.
Look, Rollo admits looks are a big factor, and I do too. It would be delusion to dismiss it. But guys, unlike women, we are graded on a lot more things than merely looks. We are. I wish I had known that a long while ago, but I am getting it now. We are judged in large part on what we do, what we ARE, of which how will look is just one part.
In the end, you will believe what you want, and act accordingly. I know, however, from my own experience, that much (not all, but much) of my own failures were with how I acted, OR DIDN’T ACT, in a given situation. Had I been Game aware, many of those outcomes would have been different.
July 17th, 2014 at 9:12 am
No Seraph, for God’s sake, women don’t care about how well you dance if you’re not physically attractive. Take it from someone who’s easily spent 100+ cumulative ours on dance floors. People get some drinks into them, fill up the dance floor, with a very wide range of energy and skill, yet the only guys who get any play are the top 10-20% best looking ones. At best she uses you for attention and fucks you off after a few spins – even Mystery said the dance floor is a trap. Dancing itself is more a female display of health and fitness, in evo psych terms, yet 99% of us guys wouldn’t give a fuck if a girl can dance like Keisza or not as long as she’s cute and she likes us.
Your other examples of “Halloween costume game” or “wing girl game” are really muddying the waters. And now we’ve lowered our expectations from “you can get hot girls if you have tight game” to “you can get girls slightly above your own level”.. and then how do you know it was game and not just the stars aligning and her lowering her standards?
Can we just put forward some clear, meat and potatoes regular “game”, so I can learn something I don’t know already, as can someone else who reads this in the future..
I’m at a club, there’s a medium amount of people. More guys than girls as usual but not a complete sausage fest.. A few male model types or big guys sprinkled in but not a NYC fashion week party. I’m a low 5, I see a decent 6 waiting to order a drink at a bar. What do I do and say in terms of game? Please keep in mind it’s going to be low effort, one word responses from her invariably from my experience since I’m not a Hot Guy.
Thanks in advance.
July 17th, 2014 at 10:24 am
”Rollo, I appreciate you paying more than the usual bare minimum lip service to looks, but this redirection towards body and fat % is a bit disingenuous. It implies any guy can become good looking if they work hard enough in the gym. The fact is, most guys in the club/social setting are decently slim (unlike girls), and 90% of male attractiveness is above the neck. I’m talking about facial symmetry, jaw shape and shape, skull dimensions, eye shape, brows. Girls want guys with defined jaws, thin eyes, thick and low-set brows. Basically approaching the male model ideal. This is what pushes girls attraction buttons the same way Axelle Despiegelaere pushes ours. “Hot guys” are facially attractive, first and foremost.”
I’ve talked to women who were older than me, women who were young when the former Governor of California was Mr. Universe for the 10000 time, and the majority the women I spoke to said Mr. Universe is ugly. They aren’t attracted to him. Yes, he slept with a lot of women – fame can give a man that.
But women don’t seem to be that attracted to muscles. I believe ”hit the gym” is the male equivalent of the female never-ending religion of confidence. ” You ain’t getting laid because you don’t confidence!”
David Beckham is skinny. Brad PItt is skinny. The one Direction kids don’t have muscles. The backstreet boys were skinny, as is Justin Timberlake. All of these guys are very handsome,.I’m sure they had a lot of girls crushing on them prior to becoming famous.
My friends are skinny. They’re very handsome with a tall frame. Getting packed in muscles will not make me attractive to women because what women find attractive in men – sexually attractive- is height and facial aesthetics and I can’t compete with Hayden Christensen.
July 17th, 2014 at 10:28 am
By the way, online video gaming streams is one of the quick ways young men have to make a buck. There are a variety of games ”e-sports” which enable groups of young men to play the game as a living. Most of the e-sports players are average, some are obese, and they don’t have that many viewers. The most viewers most professional players get is something from 2k to 5k viewers, and they stream for many hours a day.
Then there’s this guy who is a major troll in video gaming, doesn’t win that many games, is not a professional gamer, but is a 6’4” Dutch blond Alpha Male God who activates his stream and 5 minutes later has more than twenty-thousand fans filling his stream with praise. What he has that the other players don’t have? He’s part of that divine top 20%.
July 17th, 2014 at 10:39 am
Narec,
Mate, please listen to me on this…I am trying to help. You are muddying your own water. I do NOT claim to be an Alpha. I am not. But I have woken up and understand the dynamics a whole lot better after years of being clueless.
First…
GET OUT OF THE CLUB.
If the dance floor is a trap for you, then this club is a Vietnamese tiger trap.
1) You are putting yourself in an environment where talking is near impossible. Looks will be all that is going on what with the BOOM-BOOM-BOOM going on. You think you have any chance of being charming via conversation when every other sentence is “WHAT?!”?
2) You are putting yourself in an environment where there is a DISFAVORABLE female to male ratio. When you say it’s not a “complete sausage fest”, you imply it is close to it. I think you mentioned something about a numbers game previously. You think those numbers are stacked in your favor?
3) By your description of the scene, and your own as a “low 5″, you are basically saying you are in a room where the average SMV in the place is a 7. So you are playing your admitted “low 5″ against a female heavy crowd which averages two points higher than you in a bad environment?
4) Everything about your mindset as you write, and I assume when you are in this environment is defeatist, negative and the opposite of confident. With the scenario you have put yourself in, I can understand why.
And you wonder why you are having trouble?
Are you a low 5 because of shape? Face? What?
If you are overweight or out of shape, there is something you can do about it. It will just take some work, but it yield results. I lost 30 pounds last year and the response from women had a noticeable increase. Did I have women diving at my crotch? No. I did get an 8 at work to stop the conversation she was having with someone else, turn her head to watch me walk by, and comment that “Wow! Red was really a good color on you.” It wasn’t the sweater, it was the 30 pounds of stomach that had disappeared. I had done NOTHING to “game” her. I just walked by. Do you get it?
If your 5 is for other, less changeable reasons, then getting into even better shape won’t hurt you, will it?
If you are short, everyone here admits height can be a bitch to overcome. Fuck it, wear shoes that give you an inch more in height. Dishonest? Yeah, you think those 8-10’s you are looking at are not padding this, or girdling that, or wearing makeup to cover those blemishes?
Second, you are confirming my suspicion that you are simply in a negative mindset, period. Someone else mentioned the psychological game where nothing presented is accepted so as to not have to try.
“And now we’ve lowered our expectations from “you can get hot girls if you have tight game” to “you can get girls slightly above your own level”.. and then how do you know it was game and not just the stars aligning and her lowering her standards?”
For example, I honestly don’t get how you disparage my personal examples of getting attention play from cute but not super hot women as meaningless and then you lay me out a scenario where you are targeting a 6.
Which is it?
Or you looking for only “hot” chicks, which I presume you mean 8-10, or are you looking to at least get some play from a women you find attractive enough to want to sleep with?
And, at the risk of repeating myself, Roissy, the guy who I first start reading about Game, has made it abundantly clear that Game is NOT going to allow you to leapfrog from a 5 position and bag 10’s.
IT WILL NOT. Barring a crazy suite of other attributes like wealth, status, power, fame, etc. that is a bridge too far for most. I don’t know how many times it has to be said.
What it WILL do, is give you a better chance to compete. If you are currently dateless, it will get your dates. If you are only pulling girls at your SMV or lower, it will allow you to reach up a point or two higher. If you are dating but seem to be getting jilted or the short end of the relationship, it will improve that.
But no, it will not have Maxim girls parachuting into your backyard.
You don’t want to believe Game or it’s principles may help in any given situation including my examples, but you ok with attributing my success with the alignment of stars? C’mon!
In both those examples I gave, I did NOTHING to approach either woman. Both were easily at your hypothetical target’s 6 level or above. And yet, I was the one being pursued. I am not sure how that is muddying the waters by giving concrete examples of how you can increase your chances by changing the circumstances, the environment and your perceived value.
But, you seem determined to shoot down everything for any reasons.
Maybe those girls were lowering their standards when they were after me?
You can accept that they lowered their standards for me, but:
1) What if I had raised my perceived value, even inadvertently? You can accept one but not the other. Why?
2) WHO GIVES A DAMN!
If a 7 in the club lowers her standards to give you a shagging, are you upset?
Narec, I wish you the best man, I do. I spent a lot of frustrated, lonely years so I DO understand your frustration. I do. All I am saying is you can improve your situation from what it is. How much is partly out of your hands, yes. But part of it is very much is. You just have to accept it.
Peace.
July 17th, 2014 at 11:46 am
Having an 8 at work compliment me on how a color looks good on me isn’t really motivation to lose 30 pounds if I was 30 lbs overweight.
July 17th, 2014 at 5:04 pm
@narec, I don’t drink or do night game, but here is a narrative start of one possibility:
Get a $20 bill in your hand and push past the waiting girl and raise your hand and shout “Barkeep! We need drinks here!”
(then the timeline splits depending on her actions)
A. She whines. So you go “Oh! I noticed you standing there but I didn’t know you were there for a drink. You don’t really look the type.”
A .1. She quits whining and asks “What do you mean?” You’re in like Flynn and you can take it from here.
A. 2. She whines some more. You sort of apologize for taking control of her destiny. “I’ll get the drinks faster, so you don’t have to wait. Hey! Some service around here!” Pound the bar, be obnoxious. Be the loudmouth. Be the jerkboy. Give her one of the drinks. You’re not there yet, but you should know the way by now.
B. She bows up. So you go “Oh! I didn’t notice you standing there. I guess I busted ahead of you. Oh well, I’ll make it quick.”
B. 1. She deflates. So you offer to buy her a drink even before your order.
B. 2. She doesn’t back down. This could get fun.
July 17th, 2014 at 5:14 pm
“Having an 8 at work compliment me on how a color looks good on me isn’t really motivation to lose 30 pounds if I was 30 lbs overweight.”
You’re right. Stay fat.
July 17th, 2014 at 5:31 pm
L
July 17th, 2014 at 5:32 pm
Compliments don’t mean anything. I’ve never seen a woman compliment a fit, good-looking men. Women compliment with their vaginae. If she’s telling you something like she likes your skirt, she’s making polite talk. She ain’t gonna jump you over it.
July 17th, 2014 at 5:50 pm
Every excuse for inactivity is hereby nullified.
July 17th, 2014 at 5:56 pm
Low 5 due to face and height. Yes I work out and wear shoes that increase height…
Seraph I am disappointed that you have dodged my question. You have basically relegated me to the most high stress game (day game) that 100% of people don’t find socially acceptable, as a cop out to my question. As if looks don’t matter in a grocery store in full lighting and no alcohol.
Night game is meat and potatoes game, where it all started. The social mixing pot of western countries for hundreds of years. Where women are not approaching me, as in your examples. If I was good looking, I wouldn’t fucking need “game” and I would never have found this stuff on the internet.
So again Seraph, please, back to my example.
July 17th, 2014 at 6:00 pm
“Compliments don’t mean anything. I’ve never seen a woman compliment a fit, good-looking men. Women compliment with their vaginae. If she’s telling you something like she likes your skirt, she’s making polite talk. She ain’t gonna jump you over it.”
You’re right.
The only thing you should expect from women is immediate, unbridled deviant monkey sex the moment you meet, whether it be work; the mall; Lowes; your child’s parent teacher conference; her father’s funeral…
Good luck with that strategy.
You are obviously very set in your ways and mindset. Congratulations on your tenacity.
July 17th, 2014 at 6:19 pm
“Seraph I am disappointed that you have dodged my question.”
I most certainly did not. I spent a considerable amount of time and typing trying to help you, if that is what you are really after.
What ARE you after, Nerac? What is your ultimate goal that you want to reach?
Will getting that 6 in bed work for you, or is it all BS if you don’t get a 9?
Are you dating/seeing/sleeping with anyone now? Will ANY improvement in result be positive for you?
July 17th, 2014 at 6:54 pm
I don’t always agree with Heartiste on this topic, but I’d be interested in what narec had to say about this:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/17/study-looks-matter-less-to-women-than-they-do-to-men/
July 17th, 2014 at 9:03 pm
Rollo,
Game is largely a myth – a popular fiction synthesized to embellish male success with a basis in real quantities of evolutionary value. Trivial observations that seemingly confirm ‘game’, are observing nothing more than spurious correlations. The quest for a practically learned skill that can ‘bend’ female choice is a fools errand, because in order for evolution to work opportunistically, it must cull (in particular) male frequencies every generation.
1)A signal “honestly” conveys fitness, then, simply because it is not in the interest of individuals of lower quality to “cheat” and develop a larger signal; the viability costs they would suffer exceed the fertility benefits they would derive from the increased signal size. Individuals with strong preferences for a signal of a certain size may delay mating and hence lose valuable time reproducing In this model, one sex has a bias to prefer individuals of particular qualities because that bias has advantages in realms other than mating.
So, a problem occurs in the observation of ‘naturals’(an accepted premise of game convention) – demonstrating game as a behavioral phenomenon of ‘handicapping’ load(via the handicap principle), rather than some cryptic fitness indicator.
From that perspective, ‘game’ doesn’t sound very flattering. To elaborate – in applying the ‘handicap principle’, it tells us that those whose success threshold is lower in terms of ‘game’, are displaying greater indications of genetic fitness, given that this greater effort will allude to a fitness handicap.
This is because fitness signals have evolved to be energetically costly to display, where the quality of signals are handicap limited – where these handicaps can be manifest through differentials in observable ‘effort’(or any other kind of relative energetic liability).
2) Women aren’t that different than men with respect to their short-term mating criteria, in that their choices are strongly weighted for physical morphology (ie. physical attractiveness). Despite what many would have us believe, mere words and body-language(or other absurd contrivances) are rarely the determinate factor(when removed from other variables).Females aren’t any more susceptible to cryptic seduction techniques, than are males.
There are only two quantities of value females consider in mate choice, genetic benefits (indicated in physical attractiveness), and direct benefits (indicated in investment strategies with respect to material resources, and paternal investment). So, the onus is upon the ‘game’ community to unify agreement with either of these quantities (beyond a circular argument).
And there are obvious reasons why physical traits are an obvious confounder of ‘seduction’ competencies (ie. because relative deviations in physical characters can reliably signal developmental incompetence, from which sensory biases become fixed by evolutionary success).
Now, needlessly to say, I’ve been banned from Heartiste’s blog for pointing out these uncomfortable truths to him.
July 17th, 2014 at 9:15 pm
Here are some studies:
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF02702619
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/269/1498/1331.short
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19254086
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/266/1431/1913.short
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-294X.2004.02395.x/full
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/269/1486/97.short
I separated them from my original comment since I know they must first past moderation.
I saw Heartiste’s post and it really is a shame he has to not only delude himself, but other guys into his faulty beliefs. For a place where “pretty lies perish”, it certainly seems like only those which don’t harm him will pass off as “truths”. He also has the nerve to uphold science, but only selectively when it benefits him or his readership.
Such a pity.
July 17th, 2014 at 9:49 pm
”You’re right.
The only thing you should expect from women is immediate, unbridled deviant monkey sex the moment you meet, whether it be work; the mall; Lowes; your child’s parent teacher conference; her father’s funeral…
Good luck with that strategy.
You are obviously very set in your ways and mindset. Congratulations on your tenacity.”
The men who were known to bed the most women, did so shortly after meeting the guy. I’ve seen guys take something from 1 hour to a few hours after meeting a woman for the first time to sleep with them. I did know one guy who had to work for it during an entire week, but she was a perfect 10 with only 2 boyfriends in her past.
Women aren’t a castle’s walls. They don’t succumb as the man unabashedly hits on her, seduces or what not until she puts out. They do sleep with men they aren’t attracted to. The lack of attractive men interested in a relationship with them, and the pressure of not having a boyfriend. Most women cannot be more than a few weeks without a boyfriend.
I know one woman aged 21 who is dating a 40 year old obese dude, bald, without money. Women would rather be with men they don’t want than to be without a SO. That’s why women aren’t to be trusted. Most of them are either cheating on their SO or will cheat when the bigger, better deal looks their way.
July 17th, 2014 at 9:57 pm
”Low 5 due to face and height. Yes I work out and wear shoes that increase height…”
You are out of the game for the vast majority of the women who aren’t landwhales, and the women your age are even more picky than Queen Cleopatra was.
Night ”game” is going to be impossible for you to run. All you have going for you in avenues brimming with noise and bright lights is how tall you are and how good-looking you are. Day ”game” won’t work that well, either. Most women have boyfriends and aren’t looking to get banged by Alpha males like they are looking for when night arrives and they queue up in front of the nightclubs.
Its going to be a very up-hill battle for you. There are women everywhere. We see far more women 5 minutes from walking down the steps from our home than our ancestors could ever see in a lifetime, but the vast majority of the women are inaccessible to all but Alpha males and you’re being prepared by women by ignoring you for their future sucker – a husband.
July 17th, 2014 at 10:05 pm
”Now, needlessly to say, I’ve been banned from Heartiste’s blog for pointing out these uncomfortable truths to him.”
Don’t feel bad. I’ve been banned several times from hookingup smart because I disagree with everything Mrs. Walsh says. If I get banned its because I’m hitting to close to the truth for her to be comfortable with me around. Like that one time when one of her frequent female posters claimed her rich hubby didn’t partake in the orgies his peers were fond of. When i told her that her husband was most likely sleeping with prostitutes, I was banned from the blog, lol.
July 18th, 2014 at 11:35 am
As I said before, I think that both positions have merit.
The studies linked by Sirtyrion, and others, are relevant.
However, there still remains the distinction between prediction of performance (genetics, as revealed by attractiveness) and objectively verifiable performance itself (health and power, over a period of time).
On the one hand, “And there are obvious reasons why physical traits are an obvious confounder of ‘seduction’ competencies (ie. because relative deviations in physical characters can reliably signal developmental incompetence, from which sensory biases become fixed by evolutionary success)”. [(symmetry = no hidden defects) –> survival]
On the other hand, survival also predicts survival.
jf12 makes a good point: “In biology, when it is absolutely essential for survival (and reproduction), every evolvedly-efficient biochemical pathway has a backup, a fallback, a dirt trail alternative to the efficient highway. The marked pickiness of women with respect to men’s looks is an extremely efficient filter for sexiness, as we all agree. But, the *problem* of an extremely filtering filter is that it passes so little through. Hence behavioral clues may be the dirt trail to sexiness for most men.”
Perhaps this is not as evident, now, because female filters may be able to distinguish between performance significant in Nature, and demonstrations of “success” in artificial bubbles.
Furthermore, upon closer reading, the studies and conclusions in “Looks Matter Less To Women Than They Do To Men” (which is not the same as “Looks Matter Less To Women Than Personality”) are not as relevant here. The rest of this comment is just a few examples:
.
Study: “When we strained our subjects’ attentional capacities, we found … [that] Female subjects also overestimated the frequency of gorgeous women in the rapidly presented crowds, but they did not overestimate the frequency of handsome men. … The conclusion about handsome men is different: They grab women’s eyes but do not hold their minds; good-looking guys quickly get washed out of the stream of mental processing.
When women’ s attentional capacities were strained, women still did not confuse handsome and not handsome men, the handsome men just didn’t remain in memory for long, because the women’s attentional capacities were overwhelmed. And this does not say anything about the extent to which selection still depends on handsomeness.
.
Study: “In our first study, [we] asked people to judge an average-looking woman after being exposed to one of two series of other women. Half the participants judged the target woman after seeing a series of unusually beautiful women; the other half judged her after seeing a series of average-looking women. As in the case of exposure to extremes of water temperature, exposure to extremes of physical appearance affected people’s judgments of what was average. As we had predicted, an average-looking woman was judged significantly uglier than normal if the subjects had just been gazing at a series of beauties.”
The study only talks about how unusually beautiful women cause average-looking women to be perceived as being significantly uglier, and does not imply that a woman would select a charming man whose attractiveness was temporarily boosted by betas, instead of selecting the type of man (whom she has seen before) who is always perceived as being highly attractive.
.
Study: “… The men in the experimental group saw centerfolds from Playboy and Penthouse; the women saw handsome naked men from Playgirl. … Men who had viewed the centerfolds rated themselves as less in love with their partners; women’s judgments of their partners were not so easily swayed.” … “Seeing a series of socially dominant men undermined women’s commitment, just as seeing attractive women had done to men’s.”
This just says that women’s judgement of existing (already selected through her criteria, whatever they may be) partners was not not “so easily” swayed, and we have no information about the relative attractiveness of the socially dominant men, or the relative social dominance of the husband.
.
From a second study:
[1] “Do men value physical attractiveness in a mate more than women? Scientists in numerous disciplines believe that they do, but recent research using speed-dating paradigms suggests that males and females are equally influenced by physical attractiveness when choosing potential mates.”
[2] “Nevertheless, the premise of the current work is that sex differences in the importance of physical attractiveness are most likely to emerge in research on long-term relationships.”
[3] “Whereas husbands were more satisfied at the beginning of the marriage and remained more satisfied over the next 4 years to the extent that they had an attractive wife, wives were no more or less satisfied initially or over the next 4 years to the extent that they had an attractive husband. Most importantly, a direct test indicated that partner physical attractiveness played a larger role in predicting husbands’ satisfaction than predicting wives’ satisfaction.”
.
For a man, an attractive wife can be sufficient, as long as her other qualities are not bad enough to turn her into a net loss.
For a woman, an attractive husband may be necessary, but is not sufficient. She also needs him to have masculine qualities, but his lack of power under marriage 2.0 can, in and of itself, reduce him to a beta, in her eyes.
But the relevant part for the discussion here is from [1]: “… recent research using speed-dating paradigms suggests that males and females are equally influenced by physical attractiveness when choosing potential mates.”
In other words, females are no less influenced by physical attractiveness, during the selection process than males (who are more visually oriented).
.
From a third study: “The emotion control center of the brain, the amygdala, shows significantly higher levels of activation in males viewing sexual visual stimuli than females viewing the same images. … “The finding, … demonstrates how men and women process visual sexual stimuli differently …
“The fMRI scans revealed significantly higher levels of activation in the amygdala, which controls emotion and motivation, in the brains of the male subjects compared to the females, despite the fact that both males and females expressed similar subjective assessments of their levels of arousal after viewing the images.
“Hamann and Wallen had a separate group pre-select the images to ensure they would be equally arousing to both males and females. … “If males and females found the pictures equally arousing, you would assume they would have similar patterns of brain activation,” said Hamann. “But we discovered the male brain seems to process visual sexual cues differently.
“The scientists’ discovery also is consistent with an evolutionary theory that natural selection spurred the development of different sexual behaviors in males and females. … “There is an advantage for males in quickly recognizing and responding to receptive females through visual cues …”
.
According to the study, women were no less aroused by beauty than men (both males and females expressed similar subjective assessments of their levels of arousal after viewing the images).
The difference was that males and females process visual sexual stimuli at different rates, perhaps because there is an evolutionary advantage for males who recognize and respond faster to receptive females.
.
It is important to match up everything carefully, before accepting studies as support for a particular position.
July 19th, 2014 at 1:17 pm
Hey Rollo, replying late because I was mentally preoccupied the past couple days, including a couple of nights out. You can guess how those went.
Heartiste’s blog post, and the eye-catching title, are somewhat disingenuous. Both that site and the Brain pickings site it’s copied and pasted from are quite selective with their quotes, but this is nothing new.
Eon has made a great breakdown of the studies actually posted, or rather the “summaries”, but a search for the original research shows the actual methodology
http://www.academia.edu/3120759/Concentrating_on_beauty_Sexual_selection_and_sociospatial_memory
Kenrick’s “eye tracking technology” study went like this:
Test subjects were basically playing something similar to a computerized version of the game “Concentration” or “Paris”, where you have a bunch of playing cards laid out and you flip over 2 at a time, trying to match them as best as you remember.
Test subjects were presented with an array of tiles representing a group of several pairs of identical attractive and average faces. They would click on the tiles to flip them over, and attempt to match each face with its clone before they were hidden again. The less clicks needed to match each picture, the more “memorable” it was.
So the results for experiment 1 and experiment 2, were that both men and women “remembered” hot girl faces more than they did average girls, hot guys and average guys.
The interesting part is experiment 3, where all the tiles were visible to the test subjects for a full six seconds at the beginning before they were hidden again. As predicted, everyone matched the hot girl faces that caught their eye quite quickly. HOWEVER!! the female test subjects also matched the hot guy faces just as fast, faster than the average guys. However these were just the initial few matches, and due to the amount of pictures and clicking involved, overtime everything averaged out again and the hot girl pictures were again much more retained by both genders.
But the most ironic thing about this research is that the study’s authors admit in the discussion section that UGLY faces were deliberately not included in the study, because they were likely to be just as “memorable” as attractive faces!!
So what do I think about it, Rollo? I think it’s a pretty shitty study, in that it only really quantifies a very specific thing, and even the academics behind it are trying to force it to apply to a much broader theory of human mate selection.
So, now that we’re essentially back to where we started, let me counter Heartiste’s propaganda, which I really could have done right away without spending 45 minutes trying to find and analyze another human sociology/psychology journal study ..
“This is in line with what we have been saying here for some time: Women are essentially less viscerally affected by good male looks than men are affected by good female looks. And whatever effect male handsomeness has on women’s senses is dissipated much faster from their mental landscapes than female beauty is expunged from men’s mental landscapes. This beautiful truth has far-reaching implications for practitioners of the crimson arts.”
Okay… a billionaire playboy is also going to be less “affected” by glimpsing a Ferrari or other supercar than a poor guy would. But does that mean he’s just as likely to buy a Kia the next time he goes car-shopping?
Please.
Anyway, I’ll let you know how my night goes : D
July 19th, 2014 at 5:42 pm
I’ve always noticed how women must have a retinue of women who aren’t as attractive as them. It increases their value as women. Men on the other hand seem to want to have other guys competing with them for women as to use that as measuring tool for their own worth.
Instead of being real with how it is and helping men go their own way(instead of pursuing women) the very few men who don’t have to date a woman to get laid insist that any guy can bang women who are much better than them – then a guy who is a 5 shows up and claims he can’t game women, the PUA’s say he’s aiming too high and must use game on women who match his looks.
Meh, women are looking for fun and for men who can turn them on, when they are young. physically good-looking men(men who are tall or have handsome faces) are for that life stage comprised of women between the ages of 18-35, and when women finally decide its time to shoot out a baby or two they rewrite the story of whom they ”want” and say this:
”A respected expert on Mating Intelligence has come straight out and told us why Game doesn’t work and is in fact harmful to men.
Psychology and research superstar Scott Barry Kaufman has written The Myth of the Alpha Male for the highly esteemed blog The Art of Manliness. Kaufman is the co-author of Mating Intelligence Unleashed, which I cited in a post about the mating value of male creativity.
Kaufman:”
hxxp://www.hookingupsmart.com/2014/07/18/personal-development/the-bogus-alpha-male/#disqus_thread
Won’t take long for the people this ”lady” respects to come out of the forest to say that women want Alpha dick in their youth and sucker $ in their near-middle age years.
July 19th, 2014 at 8:58 pm
Here’s the highlight of my fucking night
At the bar, waiting for a drink , girl beside me .. She notices me draw a breath to say something … Immediately puts up her hand as a “stop” signal … As in, don’t even bother you sub-male model piece of dog shit. Feels good Man. Tell me something more about game please.
July 20th, 2014 at 8:59 am
It could be worse. I’ve seen women be all over a specific man, enticing him and then when he makes his move she calls on her boyfriend, lol. Look, bro, women get off on male attention. The best way to win over the enemy that society is you gotta ignore women and treat them like they don’t exist. Do not acknowledge their existence, it will make them doubt themselves and if done right it will make them understand little by little that the age of the sucker-husband-boyfriend-white knight is coming to an end.
July 20th, 2014 at 9:07 am
haha, narec, I remember this time this Italian girl whom I would see 3 times a week in one of my classes, we got off college at the same time, it was night and she was walking ahead of me. There was illumination everywhere. She knew it was me who was behind me.
But she turns back to look at me and had so much discomfort written all over her face and she walked faster to get away from me. Next day I was leaning on a wall next to our classroom and the Italian girl was looking at me funny.
Or this other woman who was trying to get me boost her self-esteem and when I went silent the next time she saw me she was afraid of me. Afraid of what? LOL.
Dude, if you talk to women – they think you are creepy(unless you are tall or good-looking. Then you are charming or friendly ;) )
If you look at women – you must waiting for the proper time to molest her.
And if you ignore women and don’t look at them something must be wrong with you and they use that imagined wrongness to attract attention, pretend to be victims of the terrible patriarchy(we’ve been a matriarchy since that white knight Constantine I made his momma’s wish come true) and you must be treated like trash.
The hardest reality for most young men of average looks and height/short to accept is that we are nothing in the eyes of women. We do serve our purpose, tho. We are the mechanics and the servicemen of our civilization and it is our DUTY! to advance the quality of life of modern women. They don’t throw us out and we get to be treated like subhuman trash. To them this is a pretty fair deal ;)
July 20th, 2014 at 10:31 am
Professor Von Hardwiggs @ July 20th, 2014 at 9:07 am
You have just inadvertently illustrated the famous Margaret Atwood’s finding that “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”
It is the reality. It would help tremendously for both sexes to understand it.
If men grasped that women are indeed afraid of being killed (and/or raped) by them — because they have good, reality-based reasons to fear just that — they would not dismiss it and would appreciate the validity of their reactions.
If women grasped that men are indeed afraid of being laughed at and humiliated by them, they would act with greater sensitivity toward men’s feelings, especially when it comes to rejections.
That’s assuming that people give a damn.
July 20th, 2014 at 7:39 pm
It’s quite a coincidence you touched on this “threat” or “violence” factor guys..
I’m not going to lie, towards the end of the night in the club I was getting actually viscerally pissed off. I hadn’t been in the crowded club for while… and the entitled, celebrity behavior of the girls got under my skin. I had my drink spilled a couple of times by girls impatiently elbowing their way through the crowd. I had only to brush against a girl as I tried to get through shoulder-to-shoulder people and they would give me this look like she wanted to stab me in the eye, like their personal space mattered more than mine.
2 times on the dance floor-type areas I was physically pushed, or spun by the shoulders and fucked off in another direction. That’s when I lost it, I extended my arm and middle finger and screamed “FUCK. YOU.”… but instead of going to war on me her expression changed to a smile. I quickly returned to beta mode and took off (expecting to feel a bouncers forearm lock against my throat at any time) but I was more than a little bewildered. I headed to the bar to try and get a drink and forced myself into a space next to another high-heeled royal.. maybe she could sense how pissed I was, but she just gave me a look and left me alone. Had I tried to be softer and more polite I’d probably gotten another shove…
Now a “Gamer” might use this as evidence that I had increased my SMV by being aggressive, but I cannot delude myself this way. I am not inherently violent, and anyway I can’t see how this type of negative energy and emotion is supposed to translate into intimacy. More likely, girls this day and age just feel safe enough to bully ugly and average guys for sport, but when it seems like they might have gone too far, self preservation instinct kicks in and they become docile.
“Patriarchy”, lol.
July 20th, 2014 at 7:56 pm
Many women deliberately piss off men to draw negative attention onto them. Women love to have men fight over them. One time I was spending time with my friends inside a nightclub. There was a commotion on the lower level. Some guy was calling a dude’s gf ”whore.” The insulted boyfriend lunged at the guy and I think broke two of the fella’s teeth.
My buddies and I go down to the dance floor to reach the bathroom and I have this thug pull at me asking me why I was groping his girlfriend. I was like, what? Turns out the girl was grabbing my ass(to entice a fight) but since I just didn’t feel anything I was taken aback by the guy’s attitude. I calmly explained to him that it wouldn’t make sense for me to grope his girlfriend when he outweighed me by 20kgs and there were tons of attractive women flowing around.
Then the woman called me a fag and the thug was distracted by his entourage of 20 guys. Someone later told me the guy was the goalkeeper for one of the premiere English football teams. See, Hypergamy is so powerful that even the women who are with men of high value have to create drama to feel alive.
I saw another guy, the friend of these 2 girls get stabbed in the neck to protect his ”friends” from unwanted advances.
Women don’t know how to react towards men who aren’t on their knees worshiping the all-powerful vaginae. And if you aren’t interested in them and they want you to make them feel desirable they’ll create a fight right there to feel sexually attractive. They’ll go to extremes like saying some guy raped them and they won’t bother to make-up a believable story, like this one time a woman told the police my friend had raped her. She even gave her a date. Unfortunately for her she didn’t check the dates properly as my friend was on the other side of the world at that time and he had proof, lol.
Of course nothing happened to her and the law just chuckled and let her go her merry way.
Dude, by being a man you’re automatically seen as a rapist/molester and child-abuser. Women are never at fault for anything and they can destroy your life in a blink of an eye, hence why I stay away from them most of the time. I don’t establish eye-contact, I give them the widest space as possible and I only respond to their questions with , ”I don’t know” so I don’t have to be part of a conversation and it won’t make them feel ”threatened.”
And man, when I see one of them giving out strong ”signs of interest” I know she’s completely whacky and I get the hell out of there.
July 20th, 2014 at 8:06 pm
Concerning women and their smiles.. those smiles are all fake. They smile to become the center of attention. I always say that if a woman wants to be successful in life all she has to do is to brush her teeth, whereas men have to have superior qualities about him to set himself above the herd and the vast majority of the smiles women give to average men are either passive-aggressive displays of disdain for the average men, or they are doing it to make the guy believe she’s into him, therefore she receives attention in exchange for nothing and might even be rewarded with money, gifts and free dinners.
My father, when I was 22, we went out to a casino and obviously the women right there were rather good-looking. My father comes out of the place he was buying chips at and told me the girl was friendly. I pointed out to my father how women are only friendly when it’s part of their job to be friendly and how women either ignore men in public or act like the guy is a creep just for glancing at them.
They’re also feel entitled to your money. Another occasion with my father, we went to a mall, and this well-dressed middle-aged woman approaches my father and asks him if he wanted to donate money to women’s breast cancer research, my father said he didn’t have any money with him and she said there was an ATM machine behind her, lol.
I’ve also seen women, good-looking women and well-dressed approach my father and ask him if he wanted to give them his money. No kidding, same thing happened to me, until I began to sport a month-thick beard and low-quality clothes to offset these parasites.
You wanna read more funny situations? Women asking me on a date then turning back a couple minutes later and ask, ”you’re gonna pay my share, right?” LOL.
You do know women are the caring sex? I broke my arm a year ago. i took a bus to get home. I sat in one of those reserved benches and when the bus began to fill, I noticed some elderly people, which meant that I would have to get up, not because there wasn’t enough space on the bus but because it was the right thing to do. I look to my left and what do I see? Young women in perfect health, not moving their perfumed bottoms to accommodate the older people and when these young women saw me get up to forfeit my seat they looked at me like they were thinking ”poor sucker.”
Women only care about themselves.
Look, women either enroll you as their private furniture-mover, private bodyguard, private psychologist and private attention-giver when the mood sets, and if you tell them to bugger off they become irate and will try to punish you. Best avoid them all.
July 21st, 2014 at 10:14 am
narec admits the truth, then enturltes himself again. “Now a “Gamer” might use this as evidence that I had increased my SMV by being aggressive, but I cannot delude myself this way. I am not inherently violent, and anyway I can’t see how this type of negative energy and emotion is supposed to translate into intimacy.”
July 21st, 2014 at 4:05 pm
Jf12 … you have to be trolling. I specifically describe how girls treat me as punching bags, like a Jew in nazi Germany, like a slave in Ancient Rome, all just based on a split second assessment of my physical appearance (none of this ever happens to masculine looking or tall guys), and the only time they treat me with basic human respect is when when I’m literally shaking with rage, and they think I might do something crazy despite them being heavily protected by society…and you interpret this as proper “game”, that these girls did a 180 and now want to fuck the angry loser more than the male models because he’s angry? Are you completely insane?
You remind me of those conspiracy theorists, who have gotten it into their head that ANY alternate theory of an event is more likely than the “official story”, no matter how convoluted, and even though many of them contradict each other entirely, but that doesn’t matter, because it’s basically an ideology and not an attempt to get the truth…
July 21st, 2014 at 5:56 pm
To a certain extent jf12 is correct, but not in the manner he believes he’s right at. Women give leeway to men they are attracted to – tall, handsome men. I have seen men beat up their girlfriends and the women didn’t press charges. Alpha males are very, very rare. Women will do anything to keep the Alpha.
Women don’t respond in the same way to average men. I have seen women avoid men who were average-looking just because these guys weren’t putting the vagina on the pedestal like the rest of the men, and the women were visibly afraid of the men whom they didn’t have under their finger.
Plenty of women are into douchebags, bad boys, men who went to jail.. men who for the most part are tall/handsome or whatever.
By treating a woman badly the average man is going to end up in jail.
July 21st, 2014 at 6:01 pm
” I might do something crazy despite them being heavily protected by society…and you interpret this as proper “game”, that these girls did a 180 and now want to fuck the angry loser more than the male models because he’s angry? Are you completely insane?”
Don’t mind him, its not his fault. He’s either a good-looking man who can do whatever he wants with women or he’s observed other men who are good-looking treat women like crap and never made the proper assumption – that Good-looking men are gods on earth.
Bro, I once had a woman in class completely ignore as I was speaking to her because I’m not hot, but she would fawn over the good-looking guys. I was just trying to ask her what we were going to have next, what class it was.
What women don’t understand is that their actions have consequences. They just assume their suckers-providers will be there when their Alphas kick them out. That, or they think they’ll be 18-25 forever.
July 21st, 2014 at 7:13 pm
Yeah, it’s been the same with my experience, that when a guy is actually getting results with “game”, in the end it turns out that he’s either going to decent looking masculine face, is over 6ft tall , or both
jf12 I can’t fully figure out.. he says he doesn’t go to bars or drink which is very strange in terms of social life unless you live in Saudi Arabia… It’s quite possible that this whole “game conquers all” is an elaborate delusion he’s spun for himself behind his computer screen as some sort of coping/rationalization mechanism. Definitely a red flag, like posting here in the first place
Or maybe he actually is decent looking and uses his “game” on plain women that are basically doing the work for him, and is too neurotic to drink or party because he’s afraid of losing his sense of control
July 21st, 2014 at 7:19 pm
Oh, there are plenty of Keyboard players. Heartiste is filled with them, as is reddit/r/pill. The very few men who use ”game” successful are men who are good-looking and try to get average men to compete with them by handing out the god-given tool of ”Game.” If you apply game properly, if you go to my workshop, if you buy my newest DVD you too can get laid like Brad Pitt!”
Rosh V has to fly all over the world to Eastern Europe to get any chance at having sex, with women who are poor. And he’s one of the PUA gurus. The Tyler dude from RSD is 5’6” balding, and ginger with a very pasty skin colour and a pitched voice. Yet a lot of red pillers believe he’s slaying vagina left and right because the women seem to be into him in his videos. Its called acting and its what game is all about. Women aren’t as dumb as one might think, and they all think with their clitoris. Looks>all.
July 21st, 2014 at 7:23 pm
hey narec, you know why Chris Brown is with Rihanna. He’s got mad game, bro! His good-looks, his wealth, fame and the army of women who want to bang him have nothing to do with it. Isn’t it strange that Chris Brown put his girlfriend in the hospital and she got back with him? Now have your average man look at the average woman in the street and she can send him to jail, lol. Mad game yo!
July 21st, 2014 at 7:37 pm
But I have to disagree with your “consequences” comment. It sounds like wishful thinking, like believing in karma.
The party doesn’t really stop for women as long as they don’t let themselves become obese
I really don’t see what advantage I would have over women when both parties are older..
My looks will only get worse, and looks are all that matter for women. Due to higher male sex drive, they will still be able to have random hookups with younger, hotter guys for sexual release or validation. Not so for me – when women say they like older men, they mean ones that look like George Clooney or Richard Gere, with a similar bank account and status to go along with it.
Speaking of bank accounts, it’s not 1956, and women don’t need to marry guys who don’t look like Don Draper just to have “security”. They are often better employed and connected than men, because the whole system revolves around them.
So in the end, they enjoyed their youth, and I didn’t. The attention for them starts winding down in their 30s, while I never had any in the first place. We both die in the end, but who had a better run?
July 21st, 2014 at 8:13 pm
Well, at least you don’t end up addicted to vagina like most Alphas become and sooner or later someone taller, better-looking or younger will show up and boom, there goes their drug. By not having access to it you become immune to it and by the time you reach your 30s you’ll see it for the very high price that it brings for average men.
They don’t really keep being part of the harem of Alpha males. They might remain slim but there are always younger crops of women ready to integrate the harems of the Alpha male. Besides, nearing their late 20s women begin to have their eggs rotten and despite having more money and more education than men, they still want a surplus paycheck and that future alimony and child-support is ever so delicious. Women will be denied a husband. Trust me. There aren’t that many guys who are:
A)Interested in marriage/co-habitation/dating/children.
And very few men are going to spend money on women who’ve hit the wall.
Hey, you wanna have so laughs?
hxxp://www.hookingupsmart.com/2014/07/18/personal-development/the-bogus-alpha-male/#disqus_thread
Replace xx with the right url.
00NoldorElf susanawalsh • a day ago
You know it’s fascinating. A lot of guys I have noticed are described as “creepy” by women. I’m not entirely sure what that means.
I suspect though that the ones described as creepy are really the guys who lack confidence and perhaps some of the other traits above, such as a natural sense of charm.
Take it from this exquisite expert on female-male sexual dynamics:
”I can tell you exactly what creepy means. It means anxious, fearful, tentative, eager, awkward. Often creepy men overcompensate with a rigid, aggressive style.
Here’s a skit that red pill types love to share:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i…
Fred Armisen was “awkward, and a little too pushy.” In fact, he has a mirthless smile pasted on his face and he’s breathing so fast he’s panting.
Tom Brady was “handsome.” But Tom was also easygoing and confident. HIs body language was completely different.”
Red pill women don’t differ from red pill men. These females also want you to work your bones to the surface of your skin to make yourself worthy of marrying a banged-up, post-wall ugly chick who hates you but sees you as useful. According to this lovely lady, the creepy men aren’t the average men just being normal. No..
its actually the fact that women can smell awkwardness, timidity and what not what makes women reject them because all of that is repugnant to women. I do wonder how Ted Bundy got women to enter his car.. Dude was a wreck of emotional problems and self-esteem issues. Must have been his good-guy game!
July 21st, 2014 at 8:15 pm
So, yeah, Susan walsh wants you to believe that its not the looks of Tom Brady what makes women attracted to him(although she feels the need to note his good-looks..) but his behaviors. Average man, shy and awkward? See, that’s why he’s not popular with the ladies. Had he the self-esteem and the confidence of Tom Brady and he could compete for women with Tom Brady.. Susan Walsh and Roissy.. the Ying and Yang of the red pill world.
July 21st, 2014 at 8:36 pm
Last I checked Susan Walsh’s daughter was dating Parker Cote
http://www.parkercotefitness.com/
Walsh’s argument is invalid.
July 21st, 2014 at 8:43 pm
Alpha Fucks go hand-in-hand with Higher Income (Beta Bucks)
That is obvious guys.
“Results confirmed that physical attractiveness correlates positively with yearly income, although, surprisingly, the least attractive exhibited the
highest yearly incomes.”
The 2nd part of the statement is for extreme Beta Bucks guys who become specialist doctors, etc. Basically asperger men. These are the guys we think of when we talk about “Beta Bucks”
This is all from – “Beauty and Wages: The Effect of Physical
Attractiveness on Income Using Longitudinal Data”
http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1135&context=honorscollege_theses
Extreme intelligence in a particular area is usually associated with mild to moderate social retardation (Aspergers)
July 21st, 2014 at 9:00 pm
“Results confirmed that physical attractiveness correlates positively with yearly income…”
A confirmation of the HALO effect.
What is beautiful is loved, Beauty is the personification of moral goodness What is beautiful is monetarily remunerated, What is beautiful is sexually rewarded
Girls will overtly criticize a man for his good looks, and then covertely reward him sexually for them.
The same is true of violent men. Girls overtly criticize violent men, then covertely pull down their panties.
July 21st, 2014 at 9:36 pm
This might help you understand a bit better:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/01/flashes-of-alpha/
July 21st, 2014 at 9:42 pm
“flashes of anger and semi-justifiable bouts of indignation can be a powerful form of demonstrating higher value (DHV)”
Higher value? For morons, maybe.
It is unbelievable what kind of tripe passes for “wisdom” here.
July 21st, 2014 at 9:47 pm
Those flashes of Alpha are cyclic.
…The more stable, healthy relationship follows an Alpha-beta-Alpha frame where the man maintains his Alpha presence, with just an occasional beta episode to “prove he’s human”.
There is no rest. “just be yourself” HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
July 22nd, 2014 at 1:23 am
@Mart:
No kidding.
The only thing “[t]hese Flashes of Alpha serve” is as a reminder of how serious a problem the frontal lobe dysfunction can be.
Luckily, it is often treatable:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/intermittent-explosive-disorder/basics/definition/con-20024309
July 22nd, 2014 at 2:40 am
This might not help the average or ugly guys on here but I’ll like to give you some perspective on how physicality truly is king in the SMP. You can honestly forget about the majority of “game”, since for young attractive girls, it’s overkill.
I’m a very good looking guy and what you guys are saying here is not only true but some of you all underestimate just how much young girls like handsome men. There’s a secret only attractive guys know. In private, women can get just as feral as a man when he sees a pair of nice tits on a pretty girl. Women do the filthiest things imaginable with me and they let me get away with damn near anything I please. If you’re an average or ugly guy and at any point you feel like you’re doing all the work in sex, you can rest assure that she doesn’t find you physically attractive. I like to put in my fair share of work but women do it for me all the time. It sounds harsh but that’s the truth.
I get most of my lays from Tinder and it’s insane just how much tail I get for simply swiping right and saying a few lines here or there. None of my strategy is as intricate as some guys make it out to be like on the Tinder Thread at the rooshvforum. I simply make a comment about her or whatever, get the number, meet up and bang. It’s as simple as that. All I have to do is be cool and the rest will follow. I laugh at guys who take girls to “special” or “interesting” dates like the zoo, museums or amusement parks. All I have to do is ask her if she’s 420 friendly, we meet up at a park or somewhere that doesn’t allow me to spend any money on her, smoke her out, and I’m practically guaranteed the lay if I get this far. Some girls will flat out want to bang on the park’s bench too but I’m a bit classier and take it to the car, LOL.
Just to show you guys I’m not bullshiting you, here’s a picture of a couple of screenshots I took from a conversation I had with some chick. I hardly ran any kind of game to her:
The back story to this is I traveled to a foreign country for vacation and this chick I matched with was dying to meet me. I couldn’t make anything happen because I had to leave immediately (business related). Let’s be real here, she didn’t go off on my personality. She was really all about the physical appeal I had to her. As you can see, it was so strong she messaged me a couple of days later asking for me to come back. I messaged her after I saw her liking my “moments” on
Tinder and the chick was still down for it, LOL. I could have easily banged her with little to no investment.
I think what gets women off the most is height because that’s always the first thing they say when they get out of their car. “OMG, you’re soooooo TALLLL!” I can practically smell their moist panties right then and there. Needless to say, It’s the first thing I list on my profile.
One thing I dislike about the game community is how they exaggerate the percentage of men who are attractive to women and how much game can actually compensate for a man. First off, you don’t have to be in the top 0.5% of men to pull women in a mass. You simply have to be in the top 20% in terms of your inherent looks. Work out a bit, stay active, and you’re always gold for new pussy. As for game compensating looks, that’s off too. The general consensus in the game community is that it’s best to be an ugly guy with tight game than an attractive guy with no game. While this obviously makes sense to a degree, in the real world, this doesn’t play out too often. Most good looking guys have a decent amount of game because of the positive re-enforcement they acquire in life. Rollo said something about how being good looking gives you confidence which in turn helps you pull women. That’s very much true. It isn’t the other way around (i.e. confidence doesn’t makes you more attractive than good looks will do).
A man whose good looking with even a minuscule amount of game will MORE OFTEN THAN NOT pull more girls than an ugly guy with great game. Keep in mind that I’m talking about pretty girls in their late teens, early twenties and not old chicks (i.e. 25 and older).
It’s also true that women reserve their sexual side to alphas. Girls always use the “Moments” feature on Tinder for posting pictures with excessive cleavage, and lingerie selfies for the group of Alphas she wants to match with. Betas don’t even get a peek into this side of a girl’s sexuality.
Anyway, I would imagine it to be very tough for other guys who aren’t blessed with good genetics but I mean, what can they do?
I will tell you guys one thing, though. Stop buying into these pua products. They deny many truths and will probably cause more harm than good in the long run. I personally like this blog a lot since it’s not for personal profit and because Rollo discusses many things other manosphere heads deem taboo.
To wrap this up, I know life isn’t fair but you already knew that.
July 22nd, 2014 at 8:02 am
Well “gamers”, what do you think about Adonis’s post? I knew Tinder was the beginning of the end as soon as I heard about it. Girls can pick out the best looking guys all from the comfort of their iPhone, like picking out food in a restaurant (only it’s free). With their sexuality satisfied, the rest of her time can be spent partying and getting attention, having fun rejecting hopeless guys who think they can “game” her… Until Tom Brady responds to her text at 3 am and it’s time to put out
July 22nd, 2014 at 9:43 am
I now agree with all these men who claim to believe they might as well go ahead and die right now. Since they are correct that there is nothing they can do, I’m lending them my shovel, since I won’t be needing it, to help them dig their own graves.
July 22nd, 2014 at 10:40 am
physicality truly is king in the SMP.
2nd’ed
Operationalize this realization
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:26 am
Narec, tinder wasn’t even ever needed for women to satisfy their sexual desires. My junior high school was 5 meters apart from my high school. The Alphas from the High school would drop by and bang the girls. White girls from middle-class acting like skanks then wondering why no guy wanted to date them when they tried to get that emotional support attention from beta males, lol.
Bro, college girls have their cellphones assailed by alphas and by betas. I was once next to a very average, even ugly classmate of mine and her cellphone was beaming with naked pictures from a 25 year old model. She’s 19 and dating a rich beta in his 30s but she’s putting out for free for good-looking men, which is what women want, a duality of being pampered with attention and money by average men and a supply of sex from alpha men. Of course women would prefer to have the beta affection and bucks in one-size fit all Alpha but that is extremely rare.
Yeah, rollo, I figured as much. the daughter of Susan Walsh is cute but she’s nothing that I don’t see when I look down my window. I actually see much better, but even with her reasonably decent-looks the mini Walsh as the vagina leverage to pull an Apex Alpha male. I bet it was his comfortable poise, and his positive attitude towards wiomen what made miss Walsh turned on. It had nothing to do with his square jaw, his very handsome face or his perfect teeth or body, lol.
Mrs Walsh clings to her recently created system of female attraction. To her, it takes 12 attraction triggers for a woman to want to sleep with a man. She continues her thesis with the staunch affirmation that what makes women attracted to men are personality traits, and the supremacy of a man in his field of work. Women are attracted to the best chess-player! Women are attracted to the best violinist!
1) She forgets to mention that the best chess player is rich as hell.
2) Violinists earn a lot of money. I assume the best also packs in the millions, so he might not be drowning in poon like Slash was, but I’m pretty sure the women the violinist sleep with are still hypergamist parasites.
Oh, and miss Welsh never explained to us why she slept with 10(or was it 20) Good-looking Alpha men in her youth when she continuously says the fellas were dumb as rocks or uncaring. So much for women wanting dad traits, huh? lol, I wish she’d take the time to go to the psychologist. I can assure you she’d be prescribed some heavy-duty anti-lunacy drugs. She’s so out of touch with reality.
Adonis, I’ve spent my youth hanging out with men like you. All of what you said is completely true. I would see women who had behaved most of her life in a decent fashion but as soon as they saw a guy like you they’d cheat on their boyfriends and husbands without a second thought. I don’t blame you and I commend you for partaking in the revelation of the true nature of women. Good job, man.
”I now agree with all these men who claim to believe they might as well go ahead and die right now. Since they are correct that there is nothing they can do, I’m lending them my shovel, since I won’t be needing it, to help them dig their own graves.”
Naw. They’re breaking free from their chains. It wont’ take long for the mansphere to break down and to dissolve itself. There’ll be three groups of men surging to life, in the near-future.
1)Alphas.
The good-looking men like Adonis who pump and dump.
2)The ghosts.
Average men who’ve awakened the sleeper, came to terms with the reality of women only having sexual desire for men who are greek gods, and making themselves to be little specks of dust, undetected by women and by society at large.
3) A very small handful of betas who’ll keep the wheels of society going on a little longer by marrying and fathering more slaves – er i mean people.
But even that will come to an end.
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:40 am
Marriage with it’s sexual medicine was the narcotic analgesic for the slave class.
That’s gone.
3) A very LARGE group of “betas who’ll keep the wheels of society going on a little longer by marrying and fathering more slaves – er i mean people.”
precisely
July 22nd, 2014 at 11:49 am
here’s a devious example of how Mrs. Walsh is a troubled con-artist:
”Presumably women are attracted to men who give the impression they will achieve status and prestige, thereby acquiring resources for future offspring.”
There are far more women than men in college. Young women already out-earn most young men. The men young women sleep with don’t have cash. Women pay for these dudes stuff. I know one average-looking(but thin) woman aged 28 married to a 6’6” guy who hasn’t had a job for 10 years now, well he never had a job. She’s a doctor. I guess it was his earning capability what made her attracted to him.
”Mary H. • 4 days ago
Bravo! This post is really, really spot-on. I couldn’t have put any of this better, myself!
I do have another filtering question, though, about how to choose good men — what’s your feeling about guys who are unsure of what exactly their long-term career vision is? I’m in my early 20’s, and of the guys I’m seeing who I hit it off with is in his mid-20s, very intelligent (graduated from one of the most prestigious schools in the country — not naming because this is the internet), in great physical shape and committed to health and fitness. caring, interested in who I am as a person, relationship/family-oriented, worldly, and has similar values as me.”
Good men = men who splash men on women and men who have great job prospects in their future. Aka, STEM men, men who are autistic, never had any female attention and are highly prone to marry and to be manipulated. That’s the audience Susan Walsh wants to reach.
July 22nd, 2014 at 12:12 pm
Building better Betas.
July 22nd, 2014 at 12:36 pm
Good lord. All this back and forth about Susan Walsh and HUS.
All you need to understand about the current iteration of Susan Walsh and HUS 3.0 is this. Susan opened HUS because she couldn’t understand why alpha fux and beta bux wasn’t working to get her focus group girls into relationships with “Handsome Dads”. HUS 1.0 was Cosmo lite. HUS 2.0 was Susan’s embrace of Game because she thought it would make all those beta guys she was hearing about attractive enough for her focus groupers. That wasn’t working because female attraction triggers turned out to be far less malleable than she thought and her male commenters were making clear that employing Game was improving their lives and giving them options. What really did in HUS 2.0 was men showing her the dark underbelly of feral female sexuality. Susan couldn’t handle the descriptions she was reading from the men there, and neither could her female commenters. So, she rebooted HUS into its current iteration.
HUS 3.0 is an attempt to return to the site’s earlier days to serve a niche clientele: upper middle class to upper class, coastal, socially liberal, college educated or in college, sexually active, employed women between ages 18 and 30. The advice given there is clearly geared to such women. There’s no system; there’s no setting out what women want. There is only setting out what surveyed women tell surveyors they want. There is only women saying in public what they want. Men heed at their peril the advice dispensed there.
Physicality and physique and hotness are important in this SMV, for sure. But I don’t think it’s absolutely everything. Men who are less hot or who don’t have Parker Cote’s physique can still get with women. Certainly the pool of such women is smaller, less attractive, and more…shopworn. And certainly a male 5 who is 40 years old is probably not going to bed the cute or hot 23 year old party girl. But that 40 year old can get with his assortative counterpart. What he has to do in this day and age is simply refuse to marry. If his current companionship isn’t sufficient, then he should cut her loose and hold out for another woman.
July 22nd, 2014 at 12:44 pm
upper middle class to upper class, coastal, socially liberal, etc. etc.
Socially, the ugliest people on the USA, from a midwesterner’s perspective
July 22nd, 2014 at 2:08 pm
In retrospect, I realized my post came off as a bit harsh for you guys. I didn’t want to give the impression that any of you all should give up on life and cower away. Now that I think about it, there are some things you could do to find yourself girls to bang. Maybe not as easily as an attractive male, but you’ll get there eventually.
Every guy I know who gets pussy and isn’t good looking always has some sort of niche he works on. I know three guys like this. One is a musician, one is a boxer and another is a club promoter. Each one is king in his social circle. Ironically, the club promoter gets more pussy than the other two and he’s only of average height and below average looks. I’ve known him for years and he seems to have developed a liking to just talking to people in general no matter what. Now that he’s tasted fame, he’s a bit smugger than before but that just comes with the territory.
I’d recommend you guys devote your time to something cool. Don’t expect to be a master at computer programming and expect pussy to come from the sky. It has to be something that can put you in contact with women. I know this doesn’t help civilization but let’s be honest here; society doesn’t give a damn about betas.
Where you guys do beat good looking alphas is in your red pill knowledge. This knowledge, specifically the Rollo’s “Year One” compilation, is more valuable than any game advice out there. Knowing this stuff will save you guys so much heart and headache when you deal with girls. When a girl gives you mix signals, you already know what the deal is and you can make any adjustments you need. You won’t second guess yourself or dwell on past instances because you know the truth. I can’t stress enough how many good looking guys still fall for women and while they’re happy at first, eventually she gets tired of him and she moves on to the next handsome male in line. The realization of “Just Get It” is so valuable in your dealings with women; some of you just don’t know it yet.
I know the truth is harsh for some of you guys but you have to realize that, as cheesy as it sounds, the truth really is liberating.
I wish you guys the best because I’ve seen just how cruel women can be to guys they don’t like.
Good luck.
July 22nd, 2014 at 2:47 pm
When you know the truth,
girls just matter less to you anymore, bc they are not the idealistic treasure you thought they were (some embodiment of heavenly virtue)
July 23rd, 2014 at 2:44 pm
How can they matter less? Pussy is literally the only thing that matters in this life. Who gives a fuck about your job, your incel “hobbies”, “travelling”.. All of those things are just used by attractive guys to get more pussy and mean nothing by themselves. your pointless games and movies are also another time sink, pissing away the tiny fraction of your lifespan where you’re physically capable of having sex. Please.
July 25th, 2014 at 6:58 am
@ narec
when “pussy”…a piece of pissed meat, is the only thing that matters for you in this life…you are doomed by definition. Animals have to suffer. I call it … justice!
July 25th, 2014 at 1:37 pm
”How can they matter less? Pussy is literally the only thing that matters in this life. Who gives a fuck about your job, your incel “hobbies”, “travelling”.. All of those things are just used by attractive guys to get more pussy and mean nothing by themselves. your pointless games and movies are also another time sink, pissing away the tiny fraction of your lifespan where you’re physically capable of having sex. Please.”
Those are your hormones speaking. Many of the most powerful men in History have been Eunuchs. They ruled over millions of men(like in China), expanded or maintained vast empires and were mantled with amazing wealth and lands. Pussy is a chemical addiction. Men taste it once and then spend the rest of their lives trying to acquire it, or tasting it again and again.
The older men I talk to regret having had sex. They regret having met their wives. They regret having children. They look at the young ghosts who take control of their sex drives, how they avoid women and by association slavery to biology and to society and in turn they applaud.
You don’t have to chop off your balls to learn how to control your urges. My uncle is a ghost, been ghosting since he was 20. I am a ghost. Began to ghost at age 18 and now in my early 30s I have a pretty good life and I’m not dying of pussy-thirst, lol. Porn, hobbies, and looking women lose their looks as they hit the wall have a way to deflate your sex drive.
And let me tell you.
It’s awesome.
July 30th, 2014 at 2:22 pm
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