“Don’t be mad E. It’s not our fault you were born without the sport fucking gene, come on.”
At the start of July, 2011 (a month before I began this blog in earnest) I took a backpacking trip through the Great Smokey Mountains in Tennessee and North Carolina. This was due to my desire to unplug, go off the grid and get back into the real face-to-face world. It was only for 10 days but well worth burning 10 days of PTO for.
It was an educational experience meeting people, most of whom have very little online presence beyond using Twitter or FaceBook occasionally. I didn’t have cell service for most of the hike. The people I met along the way, and I’ll put this politely, were “salt of the earth” people. Some were other hikers, others were people who lived and worked in the few surrounding communities. It was good to reaffirm my ability to survive on my own and realize that there is a whole world of Men out there who live well, far beyond the influence of “men” who’ve never mowed their own lawns, much less lived by their own wit in the country. Guys who build muscle by working outdoors, not in a gym. I met beautiful women who worked in small diners you’ll never hear of. I fished rivers and streams, for dinner some nights, and I saw fireflies for the first time (I grew up in southern California, it’s a novelty).
At some point I think Men need to get back to their primal natures, they need to embrace it fearlessly and without shame. We’re far too insulated by the Buffers of technology. Even the more belligerent rednecks I encountered still preferred to text their girlfriends and came off as pussified for doing so.
I guess what I’ve come to realize is that we tend to view what we ‘know’ about men and women from the experiences we have reported to us from all over the world on blogs, forums, the manosphere – and I still endorse the purpose of it’s unwritten mission – however, this trip reaffirmed for me that there is no substitute for real interaction. Game will work equally well with the cute blonde serving coffee in a rural diner as it would with the club girl in NYC. Both are equally given to the same feminine fundamentals we’ve untangled about women in the ‘sphere for over a decade, but the one we tend to use as a female archetype is the typical club girl for our examples. Daisy Duke is still subject to hypergamy, she just applies it differently.
I’m not turning into Roosh, but I’m considering burning a couple months doing the entire Appalachian trail all the way to Maine.
In my day to day life I deal with a lot of rich men. Every patron or boss, every general manager I’ve dealt with for the past 15 years has been a millionaire. The primary owner of one of my liquor brand is that many times over. None of the “business friends” I shoot golf with have weeded their own lawns or installed a radiator in 20+ years. When I was on the trail I thought about how ridiculous it would be to see a guy like that or some PUA guru having to dig his own toilet and take a dump in the woods, or hoist his pack in a tree so the damn bears don’t eat the only food he’s got for the next 3 days. These guys are insulated.
I want to run, and fight, and fuck, as well as I deal with the ‘civilized’ things I do. Imagine a guy like Mystery wringing out the sweat and filth of his clothes in a stream somewhere. Now, that’s some funny shit.
Game and Circumstance
I start off with this today because this experience wasn’t just humbling, but it also taught me that what I experience day to day isn’t at all what a majority of men experience. My past, my N count, my 18 year marriage, and what I do professionally sets me apart in a way that I sometimes don’t appreciate or take into consideration when I’m advising men.
It’s also very humbling and affirming when I receive emails or comments from men living in countries I’ve only seen in pictures who nevertheless share a common male experience that reinforces many of the things I write about – but even within that commonality, I have to remember, my circumstance is not theirs.
I walk through a casino almost every day now and I see the same people. Not the fun glamour you see in commercials or ads about Las Vegas (that’s usually night promos), but the real people, the overweight, housekeeping and table crew, the geriatric spending their savings and social security on a hope they’ll win something significant, the desperate and the people just looking for distraction.
I walk by some of these men and think “how is Game going to help a guy like that?” While I do believe that Game is universally beneficial on many levels (primarily between the sexes, but not exclusively) there’s a point where that improvement is going to be limited by a guy’s circumstance, where he is in life and what he’s made of it so far. It’s a manosphere cliché now, but most men aren’t ready for the red pill. The red pill awareness is simply too much for them to accept within the context of their circumstances.
That circumstance isn’t based on age or a particular demographic, but Game is only going to be as liberating for a man in as far as he’s willing to accept it in terms of his own circumstance.
Not Just Sex
Game gets a lot of misconstrued criticism in that ignorant critics presume Game only ever equals PUA and that “those guys are only interested in fucking as many low self-esteem sluts as humanly possible.” It’s much more difficult for them to confront that Game is far more than this, and applicable within relationships, in the workplace (with women and men) and even in their family dealings.
That’s kind of a scary prospect for men comfortable in living within their own contexts and circumstance. Sport fucking isn’t what most men think it is because they’ve never experienced anything beyond serial monogamy, nor is it what most (80%+ Beta) men even have the capacity to actualize for themselves. But, as Game has evolved, it isn’t just about Spinning Plates, or sport fucking, it’s more encompassing than this.
Game is, or should be, for the everyman.
“He only wants me for sex” or “I need to be sure he’s interested in me and not just sex” are the admonishments of women who really have no introspective interest in how a majority of men really approach becoming intimate with women. Oh it makes for a good rationale when women finally “want to get things right” with a provider, but even the excuse belies a lack of how most men organize their lives to accommodate women’s schedules of mating.
Mostly to their detriment, the vast majority of men follow a deductive,but anti-seductive, Beta Game plan of comfort, identification, familiarity and patience with women in the hopes that what they hear women tell them is the way to their intimacy will eventually pan out for them. Their Beta Game plan is in fact to prove they “aren’t just in it for the sex” in order to get to a point of having sex with a particular woman.
I always find it ironic when men tell me that their deductive plan for getting after it with a woman is to prove he’s not actually trying to get after it with her. However, this is what most men’s Game amounts to; deductively attempting to move into a long term monogamy based on what women, saturated in a presumption of gender equalism, tell him he ought to expect from himself in order to align himself with her intimate interest.
I could use the term “appeasement”, but that’s not what most men want to call it. Most men call it being a better man (for her), better than “other guys” who wont align themselves accordingly. It becomes their point of pride in fact.
Male Long Term Security
Most men, average men – and I don’t mean that in a derogatory sense – want a form of security.
Most men are designed, perhaps bred, to be necessitous. To be sure , men need to be constant performers, constant qualifiers, in order to mitigate hypergamy. In the past, and to an extent now, this performance simply became a part of who he was as a man and didn’t require a constant effort, but increasingly, as male feminization has spread, men have been made to be necessitous of security.
I would say that desire for long term security differs significantly from women’s Beta Bucks side of hypergamy need since the drive to secure provisioning is an innate part of women’s firmware. The security average men need is rooted in a need for certainty in his ability to meet with a woman’s performance standards – and ultimately avoid feminine rejection.
In today’s feminine-centric social order, men are ceaselessly bombarded with masculine ridicule, ceaselessly reminded of their inadequacies, and endlessly conditioned to question and doubt any notion of how masculinity should be defined – in fact ridicule is the first response for any man attempting to objectively define it.
It’s this doubt, this constant consideration of his own adequacy to meet the shifting nature of women’s hypergamic drive, from which stems this need for security. The average man needs the certainty of knowing that he meets and exceeds a woman’s prerequisites in a social circumstance that constantly tells him he never will – and his just asking himself the question if he ever will makes him that much less of a man.
The average man will look for, or create his own rationales to salve this necessitousness. He’ll create his own ego in the image of what he thinks he embodies best as being “Alpha” or he’ll adopt the easy doctrines of equalism which tell him women and men are fundamentally the same rational actors and convince himself he’s not subject to the capricious whims of feminine hypergamy because men and women are more ‘evolved’ than that– but that nagging doubt will manifest when the right circumstances and right opportunities present themselves.
Changing Your Programming
I mention in the book that I am not a motivational speaker, I’m not anyone’s savior and I would rather men be the self-sustaining solutions to becoming the men they want and need to be – not Rollo Tomassi’s success stories, but their own success stories.
That said, let me add that I would not be writing what I do if I thought that biological determinism, circumstance and social conditioning were insurmountable factors in any Man’s life. Men can accomplish great things through acts of will, they can be masters of their circumstances and most importantly masters of themselves.
With a healthy understanding, respect and awareness of what influences his own condition, a Man can overcome and thrive within the context of them – but he must first be aware of, and accepting of, the conditions under which he operates and maneuvers.
You may not be able to control the actions of others, you may not be able to account for women’s hypergamy, but you can be prepared for them, you can protect yourself from the consequences of them and you can be ready to make educated decisions of your own based upon that knowledge.
You can unplug.
You can change your programming, and you can live a better life no matter your demographic, age, past regrets or present circumstances.
July 14th, 2014 at 5:01 am
[…] see the writings of many men who feel unlovable. On therationalmale an ugly commenter explains how ugly people have no hope with attractive women. It’s not only […]
July 14th, 2014 at 9:36 am
I wonder about the mentality of the spate of commenters who write contradictory things about attractiveness and game. In each of several cases, they mentioned getting together with one or more attractive women but *dismissed* that experience as proving nothing since some other women turned them down.
July 14th, 2014 at 11:41 am
@narec re: “Women (and men) will not accept dominant behavior from guys who have beta facial features and small frames. It’s incongruent.”
Women will not, but men will. Bill Gates is an exemplar. In fact, so far from being atypical I say it is the *usual* situation is for the big dumb guy to accept dominant behavior from his smaller smarter boss “Yes, boss.”
July 14th, 2014 at 11:43 am
@caprizchka re: “will attract a pleaser who will gain self-satisfaction by being the best pleaser she can be.”
Where is this unicorn? Is she at the other end of the rainbow?
July 14th, 2014 at 11:46 am
If you’re referring to me, I explained that even I “lucked out” once, but the other 999 approaches were instant rejections, so obviously my “game” wasn’t enough then.. It would be like deducing that since a few guys have won the lottery, then playing the lottery is an effective way to become a millionaire.
Meanwhile Michael gets backturned by most hot girls during his “experiment” with a few humoring him with platonic conversation, and he comes away from this as a learning experience that has improved his game, instead of the obvious conclusion, that the girls find him UGLY and INFERIOR to them. This is delusion, not red pill. Either you’re red pilled or you’re not.
July 14th, 2014 at 11:53 am
I think that the divergent comments are all valid. People are talking about significantly different levels, while using the same label.
To induce primal feelings in a woman, it seems that a man often needs to be at the very top in terms of physical attractiveness or definitive performance (he must routinely deal with obstacles in the manner of Alexander, and she must be convinced that he would deal with her in the same way, and without hesitation).
The mimicry or internalization of some levels of alpha traits through Game can and does work, to get even attractive pussy, or to maintain a relationship.
But a woman can shit test you only in the absence of primal desire, only if she is not throwing herself at you and rationalizing everything that you do into something positive, because they are mutually exclusive.
Relationships through Game may well be genuine, as far as they go, and some may go quite far.
But the point of some of the previous comments seems to be that, for a woman to be able to feel primal desire and express the resulting behaviors, a man’s attractiveness or performance must be at a level high enough to trip her deepest internal psychobiological switches, over which she has no control.
If you are using Game to have more random sex, the PUAs have shown that you can be successful.
If you are using Game to maintain stability in your relationship, then you may well succeed indefinitely.
If, however, you are trying to use Game, after the fact (of your level of attractiveness or performance, at that time), to induce primal feelings (to make her want you to the depths of her being), then you are actually trying to negotiate desire, and Rollo has already explained how well that works.
But remember that you cannot generalize from a group (from an average) to a specific woman. Women exist on a continuum, and an average just lumps them all together.
While it is very important to be realistic and careful, by understanding what is likely, it is also important to realize that what is likely is not the only possibility, especially for those who already are in successful relationships.
July 14th, 2014 at 12:01 pm
@narec
the path you are on has nothing on it for you but more bitterness and anger. change behavior, control the system.
you CAN be coached out of this wilderness you are in.
July 14th, 2014 at 12:19 pm
re: “he comes away from this as a learning experience that has improved his game”
Which is the correct way to view it. The alternative is thumb-sucking sulking.
July 14th, 2014 at 12:21 pm
Somewhat OT, MMSL continues his degamification, presumbably due to financial circumstances. I’ve yet for him to present any evidence that lessening the alpha ever works better for the man.
July 14th, 2014 at 12:24 pm
That Anne Gus writer of satire who wrote that short guys should be offed is a spot on satirist. I’m guessing she must be a he. Funny stuff, but most of the commentors chime in with “this is satire, right?” if they clue in at all. http://thoughtcatalog.com/anne-gus/
July 14th, 2014 at 12:26 pm
Steady female arousal wasn’t on the table for most men in history. And men were never taught to expect it. Women can’t love men in the way they want and feel they need, so get it out of your head to make that your goal.
Most marriages in history started as fulfilling more basic needs and were transactional. You would get an arranged marriage and basic masculine behavior combined with the built-in dread game of being cast out or the accepted level of light corporal punishment kept women happy. It wasn’t like a harem of women lusting after you was an option for the average guy, its only in our modern society that our sense of entitlement has grown in measure with our wealth and isolation.
If you want love as a man get a dog or God.
July 14th, 2014 at 12:39 pm
jf12:
“Which is the correct way to view it. The alternative is thumb-sucking sulking”
Okay, then why are you on this site? Why are you reading about female hypergamy, solipsism, and how feminism is destroying society? Just pop the blue pill in your mouth, wash it down with a glass of the Kool-Aid(tm) and go on living happily ever after.
Either your red pill, and you accept the whole truth about female and human nature (not just pick out the parts that suit you and make you feel like you have “secret knowledge” to give you an edge”), or you’re not, and you’re just another mental masturbator.
July 14th, 2014 at 12:46 pm
@narec, the relevant truth about female sexuality is that you could get you some if you bothered trying. That abundance mentality is the opposite of blue-pill hoop-jumping.
July 14th, 2014 at 1:25 pm
Women do hate inferiority of any kind. Especially the kind that short men illicit. They’re damn near repulse by the sight of one. Much like how a man is repulse by a fatty when he sees one. But unlike the fatty, the opposite sex (the female) doesn’t have a fetish for short men.
You can just have a look at this twitter account: https://twitter.com/heightismwatch
Some quotes are:
“Short men brings out a short fuse with me. They got the nerve to be confident.”
“Right! Short guys should just be banned from earth.”
“short guys are irrelevant.”
“Ugh death to all short guys.. what a waste”
“Short guys – why even bother walking out of the house? I’m short and can still tell you are.ew.”
You can hate on their thoughts all you want, but nearly all women carry a disgust for short men. My guess is it must have been evolutionary beneficial in the past and that it was costly for a woman to pick a shorter mate as opposed to a taller one. Thousands of years of selection can’t go wrong here.
July 14th, 2014 at 1:50 pm
tf12:
Me and most of the guys here with my views, have been going on about how we’ve been in the game for years, and how we’ve been getting rejected and ignored at clubs/parties/work/school, while the good looking and tall guys were getting easy attention and sex, but we just need to “try”? Are you trolling?
July 14th, 2014 at 2:09 pm
“But the point of some of the previous comments seems to be that, for a woman to be able to feel primal desire and express the resulting behaviors, a man’s attractiveness or performance must be at a level high enough to trip her deepest internal psychobiological switches, over which she has no control….If, however, you are trying to use Game, after the fact (of your level of attractiveness or performance, at that time), to induce primal feelings (to make her want you to the depths of her being), then you are actually trying to negotiate desire, and Rollo has already explained how well that works.”
This should be posted far and wide. You’ve succintly placed in words what many guys here tried into paragraphs. Nicely done, eon. This comment section in general is gold for the red pill.
July 14th, 2014 at 2:52 pm
@narec, I agree good looking and tall guys get easy attention. But I absolutely disbelieve you have tried game for any length of time without any success.
July 14th, 2014 at 5:42 pm
What is game tf2 ? I did the original style/mystery game after I read “The Game” in the late 2000s, with it’s stupid routines.. Eventually I realized that at some point you have to stop being the dancing monkey at the bar and see if she actually wants to fuck you. Unfortunately DHV stories sound fake and contrived coming out of a short beta (I certainly know anyone like that would get blown out of any set involving any social circle I’ve been in), and they’re not going to “build attraction” as Mystery said. Only innate things like looks, or perhaps major pop status create attraction. And negs also don’t create attraction, because women don’t give a shit about being disqualified by ugly guys. At worst they get offended and burn the set.
And before you start laughing at Mystery style game, realize that’s what started all this bullshit male self help with misconstrued evolutionary-psych in the first place. Yes, you are all his children.
So after that I do what everyone else to did, segueing into a more natural style of “game”, Be chill, try to be fun, smile, joke around, be confident, escalate when you get the green light. Whatever. I partied with other like-minded guys who were into pickup (some community nerds, most naturals).
And here we are. You approach. She makes an instantaneous calculation her mind “Is this guy hotter than the guys that usually show interest in me? Can I do better?”. The answer is invariably “no”, because any young, non-obese girl gets free attention from 7/10+ guys.
And you see the girls faces light up with interest as they interact with the good-looking guys. A visceral attraction that has nothing to do with “alpha”, personality or any of the words being said. Mystery’s game would work great there, because it really doesn’t matter what he talks about, he just has to be hot.
Eventually, as you grow older and you lose that youthful kamikaze nature of just not giving a fuck, you start seeing all the indicators of disinterest from women in the social setting, and just don’t have the motivation to humiliate yourself yet again. Then you just post on sites like this, arguing with idiots who say that “game is the game changer”.
July 14th, 2014 at 6:05 pm
@narec, from The unbearble Triteness of Hating:
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/05/27/the-unbearable-triteness-of-hating/
16. Dancing Monkey Hate
Hater: Men who run game are just doing the bidding of women. Alphas don’t entertain women.
If you want success with women, you are going to have to entertain them… one way or the other. The same is true of women. Once a woman stops entertaining men with her body, her femininity, and her commitment worthiness by getting fat, old, ugly, bitchy, or single mom-y, she stops having success with men. We are all doing the bidding of our biomechanical overlord, and on our knees to his will we surrender, by force or by choice. You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.
Or: If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em.
July 14th, 2014 at 6:41 pm
I’ve been in the Game for near a decade now and close to everything stated here is the truth.
The reason we don’t spread this type of talk (i.e. looks are king when it comes to true desire) in the community is because it does more harm than good to a newbie. You tell him this stuff and he’ll have a hard time approaching a girl because he’ll shut himself out of the mating pool. I had a student obsessed with looks and deep inside I knew he was right but I also knew that his mentality wouldn’t do him any good. I told him to forget about what you couldn’t change and focus on what you could.
I understand man’s need to know the truth but understand that the redpill doesn’t favor every-man. If it doesn’t favor you, then why would you propagate this defeating mentality? It’s fine to know what’s what but if it doesn’t take you anywhere you want in life, then you need to delude yourself into thinking you can achieve more than you think you can.
Deluding yourself is nothing wrong when it’s to your own benefit. I recall Iceberg Slim, a famous pimp, saying:
“I’m looking in the mirror. ‘No mistakes! Clear day! Oh, you slick pimp motherfucker.’ Used to talk to myself, like a psychotic. You’re psychotic when you’re a good pimp. You gotta be. AND IT PROJECTS, MAN.”
If you know you have some deficiencies, work at them the best way that you can and simply live your life.
July 14th, 2014 at 7:17 pm
Caprizchka,
I “care” because it’s extremely irksome to me for anyone to be so intellectually lazy, shallow, condescending and assuming of others that they would apply such a superficial “list” of “qualities” “required”. When the lists involve alternate prerequisites for primary qualities lacked, it becomes obvious the policy list maker is living in a fantasy world avoiding reality and unable to relate to another human being. You are relating to your list. The list is primary and supersedes real people. It is true that some qualities are reasonably desired and there is nothing wrong with that. I really don’t give a shit about your specific list or anyone else’s specific list (male or female). People are far more dynamic than any list of requirements I’ve ever encountered. Most will fake some listed “qualities” for sexual acceptance as well as in employment interviews. The “list” literally encourages feigned behavior. It “sets the bar”. We are all changed by life’s events and have the personal capacity to implement significant change. Nothing and no one is static. Dogma will never out perform awareness. Academic pontification will never out perform the genius of common sense. “Lists” are dogma and awareness only comes with experience. Life is fluid. What I do care about is individual initiative, accepting responsibility, honesty, sincere consideration and mutual respect which are relatively rare in intimate relationships as well as business relationships. No relationship is really worth pursuing without these. These are traits only the individual can choose to embrace and employ or not. The temptation to leach off others is prevalent. Many want a recipe to follow or a leader to show the way, but we are all formed separate and find true fulfillment only when we are honest with ourselves and face the fact that we must “hoe our own row”. Life is a dance. Some are awkward dancers, trip and step on others toes, some stay in the corner, some are more graceful, some have life long partners, some dance with many partners, etc. Some should have never been invited to the dance.
In your comment above you asked “why would you care?”. Did you really want to know why I care, or were you condescendingly implying I “should know better than to care”. Are you implying that I am inferior because I do care? I believe it is the latter and your description of yourself “I’m an old hag and a weirdo besides” does not fool me, I was not born this morning. Your public feigned self depreciation has no more integrity than your list.
I do speak for all men.
July 14th, 2014 at 7:19 pm
@jf12: *Where is this unicorn? Is she at the other end of the rainbow?*
I think this writer describes her pretty well: http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/why-you-should-hit-on-hot-girls-out-of-your-league/
July 14th, 2014 at 7:21 pm
@George,
You sure told me. I’m so sorry to offend you by addressing you. It won’t happen again.
July 14th, 2014 at 7:37 pm
Plan for 6 months on the trail, if you decide to do it. Most take 5-6 months and run into reality 2-3 months in, after taking many zero days, either because of illness, weather or just loss of motivation and they take days off.
We ran into a young guy ‘Glacier Freeze’ was his trail name, I think, who was trying to do all 2200+ miles in 100 days.
We met him 65 miles from Katahdin and he was at 102 days, planning on finishing the last 65 miles by the next night (e.g. 28 hours later). Do the math.
If you want more isolation, go southbound from Katadin as we did. Harder in many ways because you enter the 100 mile wilderness before you’re body is really hardened from the trail.
You will meet some amazing people on the trail if you do it.
July 14th, 2014 at 8:12 pm
Any good thoughts on how to unplug for just a half day or a few hours when it’s hard to get away? I find it very difficult, and yet I know this is exactly what I need.
July 14th, 2014 at 8:12 pm
@You Probably Read My Book and seen my Videos
In other words, you lie to garner sales of your ‘book and videos’. How special. What if your MD treated you the same way? Or your HVAC contractor? Or your plumber? Or your electrician? Or your roofer?
Did your client know before he paid you that you were going to lie to him? Was that in the contract? Didn’t think so. You know what that’s called, right? FRAUD. That’s right, you deceived your clients and TOOK THEIR MONEY. YOU are precisely the reason that the manosphere exists—a place where men can discuss the TRUTH without interference from hucksters like you, hawking your nonsense for lucre. Is the manosphere always right? Hell, no. But it also doesn’t require reaching its hands into the wallets of its readership, based on lies, in exchange for information, which you just shouted to the world are lies. Dumb fuck.
You are worthy of all the respect given to a confidence artist shucking fake Rolexes on the sidewalk. Move your slimy self along, now. Get back to selling your $500 ebooks and $2,000 boot camps to the unwitting. Move along now, dipshit.
July 14th, 2014 at 8:38 pm
@You Probably Read My Book and seen my Videos
“I sell fake Rolexes.”
“The reason we don’t spread this type of talk (i.e. Rolexes are king when it comes to true Rolexes) in the community is because it does more harm than good to a newbie.” (IT PREVENTS THEM FROM BUYING FAKE ROLEXES.)
“Deluding yourself is nothing wrong when it’s to your own benefit.”
Hey, to all of Rollo’s readership, did you read this? These are the scum who prey on YOUR insecurities. That’s right, YOU. Do you want to live by this worldview: “Deluding yourself is nothing wrong when it’s to your own benefit.”
Didn’t think so.
It’s real easy to be honest about it: just tell your clients upfront what they’re in for. If they don’t buy it, then great, you have just screened out someone who SHOULDN’T be your client (and someone who’s money you SHOULDN’T be taking.) If they don’t go for it, then that’s fine also: send them on their way and DON’T TAKE THEIR MONEY.
Send this douche packing, along with ALL of his apologists who perpetually spray their graffiti onto the manosphere, largely in the form of lead generation YouTube clips… of nonsense.
July 14th, 2014 at 11:24 pm
Rollo,
Considering your comment above “You fool yourself if you believe you have some plenary indulgence from this stark reality.”
In your mind, is there little more to human life than the quest of man and woman to mate? Are we only nothing more than puppets of our glands enslaved to a lifelong compulsive frustrating sex drive? Reading this site and the comments herein certainly reflects this possibility.
July 14th, 2014 at 11:32 pm
Prov Erbs,
Consider a day or two of very challenging work or something extremely physically challenging. Get out of your comfort zone. Do something outrageous (but reasonably safe), bungee jump, skydive, something to shock your system. Nothing beats a through heart pounding sweaty work out, healthy food and good rest.
July 14th, 2014 at 11:36 pm
Caprizchka,
I was not offended. Don’t attempt to use me as an excuse.
July 14th, 2014 at 11:48 pm
Caprizchka,
The writer of http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/why-you-should-hit-on-hot-girls-out-of-your-league/ is 99.999999999% likely to be completely full of shit. In reality hot chicks mate with hot guys. Only blind people would honestly not see this fact. Hot chicks do not have to wait for less than hot guys to ask them out. There are plenty of hot guys with the balls to ask hot chicks out. Are you attempting to fool everyone else here as effectively as you have fooled yourself?
July 15th, 2014 at 2:31 am
@narec In a sense I am with you on what you’ve been saying.
BUT You would be surprised with how stupid these “pretty boys” are and how much they lack game. My best friend is a 6’4” blonde blue eyed athlete and he was trying to hook up with this hb 9 and she straight up said to his face that “hes kind of a square” and he didn’t know how to react.
First of all if you have game at all you wouldn’t be getting called a “square”.
Anyways it’s proof that even the good looking dudes have the same hoops to jump through and the worse looking ones might even be better at getting through them
July 15th, 2014 at 3:23 am
Thank you Rollo for another great and timely post. Somehow like that dependable friend, you always seem to write the right thing at the right time. I feel like you and Robert Greene must be some kind of hedonist prophets or something.
July 15th, 2014 at 5:41 am
Will:
Your comment is completely irrational. It’s like saying that some skinny little nerd who regularly gets the shit beat out of him at school is going to have an “advantage” in a street fight over some brute that’s 200lb of muscle because the kid is used to getting hit. Facepalm.
Yes handsome guys get hoops, rejections and blue balled sometimes but that’s because decent girls have so many OPTIONS. The pretty girl in your anecdote might have 20 other tall, good looking guys chasing her so she’s well used to their attention. You’d need to be hot + a celebrity or something to get her excited. Or she’s just not in the mood.
Saying an ugly or short guy is going to have an “edge” here because he’s used to getting shit from girls is completely delusional, like my street fighter analogy. The less attractive guy isn’t even in the game.
I literally cannot understand how people can make these kinds of rationalizations. Anyone with a shred of social (ie: meat market) experience would know better. It’s like they have learned everything about girls and pickup online and never seen what happens at a party. I just don’t get it.
July 15th, 2014 at 9:40 am
looks are king when it comes to true desire
It is really truly that simple.
All other qualities are good, buy not as paramount
July 15th, 2014 at 10:01 am
@Prov Erbs, the solace you seek can be found by following instructions. Choose a strong password, preferably at least 20 characters, a random string you cannot remember, and don’t write it down. Then try, futilely, several times with the wrong password until you are locked out.
July 15th, 2014 at 10:04 am
@caprizchka, I’m not going to read Heartiste, but I probably don’t disagree with him at all, if he’s saying hot girls are usually as nice as non-hot girls. The point I was trying to make is that I do no know of *any* women who naturally *tend* to be kind and submissive and giving to most men *ever*.
July 15th, 2014 at 10:06 am
It still hasn’t ceased to amaze me that “some people” think women have magic pickers, and magic eyes, and magic intuition, and are so hard to mislead.
July 15th, 2014 at 11:17 am
@George, your answer is in the post:
July 15th, 2014 at 12:52 pm
A lot of whining in these comments. Even if it were true that looks are of paramount importance and short men are doomed, crying about it and adopting a victim status only makes you that more unattractive. Men face hardships and are often lead thankless lives. This will never change. You may get people to feel sorry for you but in the long run this will only make you more resentful.
Take control of your life the best you can. Harden the fuck up. Find something to devote your mental energy to that isn’t totally rooted in the self and the fulfillment of base desires. Otherwise you’re no better than a woman.
July 15th, 2014 at 1:39 pm
jf12:
“It still hasn’t ceased to amaze me that “some people” think women have magic pickers, and magic eyes, and magic intuition, and are so hard to mislead.”
You have got to be joking. You sound like the same kind of mindless game-enthusiasts that say unattractive guys get rejected because “women have the ability to sense if a guy is bitter”; ie: MAGICAL POWERS. You know, the type that lets girls read the minds of ugly guys but get caught completely by surprise when the handsome psychopath rapes and kills them.
Please share what kind of lies, tricks, or Machiavellian manipulations an ugly beta can tell a girl to make her want to fuck him instead of tall, handsome guys at the bar that made her vagina tingle the moment she saw them.
Honestly. Please. I’ll try them out this weekend and report back here.
July 15th, 2014 at 2:03 pm
@narec, do you really think guys like Roosh and Nick Krauser don’t get laid as a result of practiced and internalized Game?
July 15th, 2014 at 2:48 pm
I don’t know about Nick, but I’m quite familiar with Roosh.
I distinctly remember one of his posts where he said he was tired of fighting tooth and nail to get the attention of chubby, 5/10 arrogant American chicks in the club… Then he did a tour of Eastern Europe where cute skinny chicks grow on trees, and they all have a thing for tall, exotic looking guys – and he was American to boot. Literally all he had to do was approach, he said so himself. There was no “game”
So there, lol. Don’t believe me, find the article (Google Roosh + “low hanging fruit”)
So yeah, I believe in two types of “game”
1. Numbers game (as number of attempts approaches infinity, possibility of success approaches 1… If you are decent looking that is)
2. “Move to a different country where you have an advantage” game. Ask Michael about that.
July 15th, 2014 at 3:13 pm
@narec I’m not saying that “pretty boys” don’t have an advantage.
I’m saying that a girl’a “gina tingles” are fueled by more than just the “looks” factor (which is 99.9% what we base our boner on).
You would agree with me if you saw an ugly guy who had high status fuck a hot girl in which she was making orgasm noises. (I’ve witnessed plenty of it in my early 20s time).
We wouldn’t be bringing an ugly administrator or woman CEO or whatever to bed and lust for them like girls do.
Yes looks give you an edge but like I said you would be surprised with how much you can manipulate a girls mind (she’s an emotional creature) and some of these “pretty boys” don’t have this talent so they fail to turn the girl on.
I have hotter fucks than a decent amount of my pretty boy taller friends.
July 15th, 2014 at 3:29 pm
@narec, it’s *attractive* guys who get rejected because they’re bitter …
Unattractive guys get rejected for being unattractive. Steps to overcome that, given that you’ve given up on being attractivein looks.
1. Stop being unattractive in behavior. Stop anti-gaming. Kill the beta. Up the power. Up the decisiveness (whether stupid or not it doesn’t matter).
2. Numbers. Aproach. Approach. And approach some more.
3. Meet new women in *comforting* situations to them. Day game, not bar game. You’ve indicated you don’t succeed trying to be the biggest battleship in the night game ocean. And probably you’ve found that being a comforting port also doesn’t work in getting bar women away from their exciting battleships. So don’t play where you aren’t winning. Fish in a smaller pond. Be the most mysteriously possibly sexually dangerous man in the Dairy Queen that day.
4. As we, all of us, keep saying, sexualize instantly and escalate on the assumption that escalating will work. If it doesn’t, move on quickly and decisively.
5. Don’t burn your bridges. If turned down, just move on, no bitterness. Chances are you will encounter the same woman later and she will be more receptive *because* of the fact that you moved on well. Also, the fundamental fact of female sexuality is that it keeps changing.
6. Focus. If she doesn’t already realize she’d be better off enjoying sex with you than whatever she happens to be doing, what are YOU doing in front of her to make her realize that? Sleeping Beauty is the total opposite of a strategy for men, the total opposite of what you say you believe.
July 15th, 2014 at 3:35 pm
@cryo, re: “Find something to devote your mental energy to that isn’t totally rooted in the self and the fulfillment of base desires. Otherwise you’re no better than a woman.”
I agree. For example, a woman is better suited to fulfilling someone else’s base desires …
July 15th, 2014 at 3:53 pm
@narec, so would you say you believe that Game has a purpose and a use within specific contexts?
July 15th, 2014 at 3:54 pm
The hole in the bucket brigade is sure to trot out the Groucho Marx club membership paradox any time now, wearisomely.
July 15th, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Narec is onto something.
Game will not compensate for poor looks. Instead, Game will give added benefit on top on ones looks
July 15th, 2014 at 4:16 pm
Rollo,
I agree. Your work is great. It is specific, concise and accurately communicates the details & dynamics articulately and effectively.Thank you for re-clarifying.
July 15th, 2014 at 4:44 pm
Rollo, I don’t doubt Roosh or Krauser get laid. Hell, I’ve been in the game for about 6 years and yes it does help you get laid. What I’m get at, and what narec is probably trying to say, is that Game does not bring primal desire to the table. Game is a form of persuasion and I can see why some commentors would say game is transactional if you think about it. You can extract primal desire off of women below your inherent SMV or those close to your own, but receiving it from women above your own? That’s damn near impossible unless you meet her aesthetic threshold. Yes, you can bang them but you won’t get that raw sexual attraction that many guys cherish, no matter how hard you try.
Many guys experience buyer’s remorse in the community. Girls get buyers remorse not out of “comfort issues”, but rather, out of repulsion towards your genetic stock. You can only fool a girl for so long before her id screeches in defense towards your sexual advances or towards any idea of pair bonding. Their was a study that proved women can smell how good your genes are via the pheromones you emit. I forgot where to look for it but i’ll post it as soon as I find it here. As I’ve stated before, it’s all completely biological when you get right down to the core of it.
This is the red pills shiv.
Many men won’t accept this and some may even delude themselves into thinking otherwise but eventually it will all come to light. Just remember that while you put in the effort to take some chick out on a date, some guy via Tinder made her come to his apartment, and not only did he bang it for free, but he also experienced her primal sexual desire. Something that her boyfriend or future (beta) husband will never see.
July 15th, 2014 at 4:45 pm
@ narec
It sounds like you really enjoy your victim posturing pity party.
There is a ‘game’ in Transactional Analysis called Why Don’t You, Yes But (WDYYB)
The way it goes is player A says “I have this problem, does anyone have any solutions?”
Then player B says “Why don’t you do so and so” and player A responds with “Yes but that won’t work because of this and that.”
Then players C,D etc offer solutions, which A responds to with a “Yes but…”.
Finally everyone gives up. Then they all get the payoff. Player A gets to confirm his dysfunctional Child position “nobody is going to tell me what to do” and B, C, D etc get to confirm their dysfunctional Parent position “no one ever listens to my advice”.
Myself, I’m not going to play anymore.
July 15th, 2014 at 4:46 pm
jf12:
I can handle the anonymity and alcohol of night game sometimes.. but I’m not capable of doing day game at this stage anymore. Even good looking guys are too pussy for that. Getting humiliated in front of a bunch of people in broad daylight and having to scurry away like a weirdo or criminal .. I’m pretty sure it would push me into a deeper depression and self destructive behavior. Any normal guy with human emotion would react the same.
Other than that I agree with the rest of your post, other than #6 which I don’t understand. Anyway, I don’t see the clever scheme here, where’s the manipulation and misdirection that you alluded to, that women are so vulnerable to?
Rollo: you’d have to specify what you mean by “game” because a lot of variations have accrued over the past 10 years. If you mean an extremely general definition of “things a man says or does to try and make a woman attracted to him” then no, because you can’t negotiate a woman’s attraction as has already been said. It’s going to be mostly physical (or in rare cases status, as in Avicii status, not doctor or lawyer status)
But if you’re talking about a broader sense as in things to help increase the chances of sex – like logistics, numbers game, practice with banter, or even just NOT FUCKING THINGS UP when she already likes you – then sure.
July 15th, 2014 at 5:08 pm
narec, being a Sleeping Beauty is the single most completely wrong strategy for any man even if he is a beauty. Acknowledge knowling that fact, i.e. acknowledge that you’re not infected by Elliot Rodger’s insanity, or else I see no point in responding further. You’ve already acknowledged you don’t see ANY actual value in you pursuing what YOU say is the optimal strategy, i.e. paying a small fraction of your lifetime earnings, probably less than you charge at restaurants probably, to increase your facial attractiveness.
July 15th, 2014 at 5:51 pm
Following up on a link, I found this gem.
http://youarenotsosmart.com/2012/04/17/ego-depletion/
Basically, if you’re feewing unsuccessful, then fill up your ego tank. This procedure works *best* when you depressively say nothing will ever work.
July 15th, 2014 at 6:05 pm
@narec, while you already know I do agree with you on the feral aspect of arousal, I think you may be forgetting that hypergamy has two sides to it: Alpha Fucks AND Beta Bucks.
I’ve personally known average (not ugly) guys who’ve practiced and internalized Game (even rote PUA Game) who’ve hooked up with women well out of what should’ve been their associative mating value. I’ve also known guys with such creative talent, status and affluence who’ve done the same. Was it ‘genuine desire’? Hard to say, but if it wasn’t, these guys didn’t much care because they had predictably regular enough options with other women that they weren’t so concerned with losing a plate they were spinning.
On the other hand I also knew guys like Jake:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/19/mr-perfect/
As I was implying, Game is contextual. A guy like Matt Forney can move to the Philippines and nail top-shelf Filippinas because he’s 2 inches taller and is anglo there. He’ll still need Game to a degree, but the context is different in PI than in the US. Same with Roosh.
It’s important to consider context. Before Athol jumped the Beta shark, MMSL was improving married men’s sex lives by introducing elements of Game. An important part of that was men getting into better shape, but unless a guy adopted a more Alpha mindset and applied an intra-relationship form of Game he was just a better looking version of the doormat chump his wife married and grew accustomed to.
I also know in-shape mid-40’s men, who look good, but regularly date and bang women in their mid-20’s who should want to bang younger men. Through variations of amused mastery, cocky/funny and soft dread these guys hook up with girls every middle age spinster will tell you they can’t get with.
Physical appeal can offset a deficit in Game, but Game can also offset a deficit in physical appeal. That’s what I was getting at in this post. If you’re a 300 lb. slob, Game is probably not what you need to be concerned with, but if you’re average looking, focusing on aspects of Game and playing to your strengths might be what increases your ‘success’ rate.
July 15th, 2014 at 6:08 pm
for the looks matter dum dums,
this is soooooo easy. the looks a man is judged on are based on his utility.
if you are short, ugly, AND have a bitter and hating personality….you have no fucking utility. your utility is an aggregate measure of ALL qualities, not the average of three or four or even 12.
women’s utility IS their looks. thats why they are so damned skittish and neurotic.
fin.
July 15th, 2014 at 7:19 pm
Even Alphas get cheated on.
I’m below average in height and looks but I’ve always been aggressive in my dealings with women. It always pays to be bold even if the bitch isn’t digging you. I remember being at a party not too long ago, and hooking up with my friend’s g/f. Now, before you start with the morals and ethics of all of this, read on.*
My friend is above average in looks and height. The guy was 6’2 and good looking to boot. He lacked muscle but he had a very imposing frame just because of his height. Compared to me, he was Adonis but…none of that mattered when I sufficiently aroused his girl.
We were celebrating the arrival of the New Year at a mutual friend’s house, complete with fireworks, games, booze and bitches. My good looking friend got a bit too drunk for his own good and was close to passing out in the garage. There was five of us inside. My friend, his girlfriend, our mutual friend, some other girl, and yours truly. We tell her to take him back to his truck so he can sober up before they leave. She does this and comes back to the group. The other people leave just us two for a moment, as they go and get more beer and we start talking.
A song that she likes comes on and so I take her by the hand and dance with her. I didn’t mean anything by it, we were all here for fun and that’s exactly what I set out to do; just have fun. Things get out of hand as she gets closer to me and for a second, almost kisses my neck.
Now, at the time, I knew about IOIs. I wasn’t stupid because I knew that women never accidentally give you signs of affection. It always serves a purpose.
Anyway, I twist her around a bit, purposely making her dizzy and she’s loving every bit of it. She keeps calling me an asshole and giggling at the same time.
I see where this is going but then I think about my friend and I realize that I value our friendship more than I would a bang with this sloot so I decide to not proceed further.
I tell her, “Hey, I’m tired. I’m just going to sit down.” She gets upset and tries to pull me up playfully. She sees that I won’t budge so, instead of sitting beside me, she sits on top of me. My chub starts to grow and she knows it. She moves her body in a way that positions my member right by her “spot”.
I’ll be lying if I told you, I didn’t believe this as it was happening. I mean, I know all girls have the potential to cheat but when your friend is not even 50 feet away from you, you start to really see how women are “in the heat of the moment” type of creatures. I put her aside to make some small talk and let the tension fade away. She talks for a bit about some mundane things but I interrupt her by telling her I have to go to the restroom.
I had to piss something fierce with all the drinking we had been doing. As I zip up, the door flings open and guess who it is? Yep, it’s ol slooty mc slutson and she’s on the hunt for some different dick tonight. She tells me she really has to use the restroom and she couldn’t hold it in any longer. I move towards the sink to wash my hands but not before she says she can’t open her belt properly (she was pretty wasted around this time) and wanted me to at least un-buckle it. I get near her and I smell that very distinctive smell before a bang…I smell her wet pussy. Only this time, she must have been gushing a waterfall since I smelled it through her denim jeans and panties. I remove both and she giggles as she brushes her hair to the side. She says, “I know you want me. I’ve seen the way you look at me ______, and it turns me on a lot. (My friend’s name) won’t know. It would be our little secret…” She leans forward a bit and grabs the back of my head towards her.
We make out and the sexual chemistry is out of this world… We both revert to animals as we take off out clothes and we get close to working on what we’ve started. But it all comes to a halt when we hear a knocking at the door. It was that other chick and so we get dressed and walked out of there pretending like nothing happened. The girl who caught us knew none of us personally, so she never said anything. She gives me her number and for two days, I contemplate on contacting her.
I cave in eventually to my desires and see her on the third day.
It’s been two years since that event and they’re still together. They’ve had their ups and downs but since they live together, they try their best to make it work. I remember, after the incident, my friend told me she went to a house party and got home really late. I felt sorry for my friend because I already knew what happened.
I tell him, “That’s shady man. I don’t think you should be living with her.” He states that he’s in love and he will make it happen regardless of what I think.
The red pill, while painful, is a knowledge that will forever be in your favor. Just by unplugging you will always be ahead of other guys.
Remember that.
*Before anyone mentions it, no I don’t care about screwing over my friend. I know he would have done the same thing. Aside from that, I’m damn near sociopathic and could care less about anything else but me. So there you have it.
July 15th, 2014 at 7:22 pm
Anne hasn’t been the only woman to speak against shorter men. There’s a reddit/r/short and most men there complain of the same, even if they only approach women who are 4’11” they end up rejected. A few of the visitors who are 5’11” and above said they had been rejected by women because they were ”short.”
We could make a case for status making up for a lack of good-looks or height, but even the Captain of the winning world cup team. Germany, has been dubbed as the magical midget, lol Way to treat a guy who’s considered by the greatest authorities in football as one of the best players to be born.
I have no doubt he has a smoking hot wife, but she’s not attracted to him. She’s attracted to his money. On the other hand, the rest of the German players are handsome, fit, broad-shouldered, very tall, and very sexually desired by most women. The players we’ve seen in the worldcup are what most women want, what most of the attractive women sleep with, and whom they want to marry but can’t.
I’ve known women who dropped their long-term boyfriends or they husbands because some sports fella was in town, drunk, and didn’t feel like putting on the work to get the most attractive women in the location.
Its not only the white, western woman who is like this. There’s nothing easier for a white man than to go to Brazil and get laid. I know a guy who was obese and who boasted about sleeping with dozens of attractive white Brazilian women. Well, considering their doctors make as much as a minimum wage-earner in Europe/USA, that doesn’t seem like much of an accomplishment.
Asian women, I’ve met enough in college. They’d stick to their racial group, only coming out to bang hot white guys and then they’d return to their average-looking Asian boyfriend – who’ll make a lot of money a few years from now.
Sure, I’ve seen plenty of average/hot/young women with white, average, and older men. they’re either looking for a Euro greencard, can’t get a guy to commit to her in the Philippines/Santa Catarina or in any other poor as hell Country, or have to feed their family/Alpha male spawn and white beta bucks are worth a lot.
I remember visiting one of my favorite porn sites a few years back. The frontpage was filled with videos shot by this white expat dude filming himself having ”sex” with hot, young Philippian women. The women look so uncomfortable and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out the women spent hours taking a long shower after being exploited by this dude.
I’d say most of the women who are from poor Countries share the same lack of sexual interest in the white men they sleep with. Social status is nonsense. It doesn’t make women feel sexually aroused. I’ve witnessed many women under the influence of the Alpha male sexual appeal to recognize wanton sexual desire from ”I gotta open my legs for this white dude or my kids won’t eat tonight.”
July 15th, 2014 at 7:23 pm
Truth is, good looking or not, no one is safe in this market. I’ve always held the belief that hypergamy can’t be quenched. Hypergamy is, by its very nature, insatiable.
Just have a look at this thread:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=150741733
Guys from all shapes and sizes get a cruel brush with the hypergamic drive of women. Some learn and some don’t. Neither is important but what is important is realizing that NO ONE MAN IS SAFE from hypergamy. It is a strong and primal force that will shun you, your investment, sacrifice, and any other thing you can think off.
July 15th, 2014 at 7:41 pm
”I’ve personally known average (not ugly) guys who’ve practiced and internalized Game (even rote PUA Game) who’ve hooked up with women well out of what should’ve been their associative mating value. I’ve also known guys with such creative talent, status and affluence who’ve done the same. Was it ‘genuine desire’? Hard to say, but if it wasn’t, these guys didn’t much care because they had predictably regular enough options with other women that they weren’t so concerned with losing a plate they were spinning.”
I don’t know. The older men whom I’ve met through my father have either been guys who took the beta bill and paid for the fun the Alpha males had with these guy’s wives younger selves, or are Marines and ultra masculine men. I don’t think Game can make the average white young man become as masculine as 60-something jarheads who’ve seen war and can sleep with much younger women.
I had a Math tutor who was incredibly hot at the age of 35. She was 5’11’ with very long, thick dark hair and green eyes. Her bust was huge, natural, and she could defy the laws of nature, not even bothering to wear a bra.
Her husband was 5’7”, was older than her by 8 years and snagged her away when she was 15 years old and dating the local Brad Pitt.
Thing is, sure, this fella reproduced with her and now has an equally hot daughter, but he’s paying top dollar for it. She began to develop health problems at the age of 21. He payed for her college. He supports her. She never worked a day in her life, tutoring some students for money she keeps to herself. She has far more academical education than him but he makes the cash. She can divorce him, take the cash and take the house. He spent a lot of money on her.
Average men can incur the graces of attractive women but its highly expensive, risky, and they are on a timetable. Most women will divorce the guy and cash out. As for men with money spinning plates: I thought they were called escorts?
lol, I’m enamoured with money, so I wouldn’t part from my money for the one-hour most clients spend with escorts, but I gotta admire the way it works in Holland. You spend a certain amount of money, you sleep with a very beautiful woman and you enjoy her company, socially.
Sure beats seeing all these average men wasting money on average women only to go home alone.
July 15th, 2014 at 7:48 pm
”Truth is, good looking or not, no one is safe in this market. I’ve always held the belief that hypergamy can’t be quenched. Hypergamy is, by its very nature, insatiable.
Just have a look at this.
I remember that thread and others like it. A lot of those young greek gods have tried to go down the ladder in looks, to try to catch some fish, but they can’t attract any woman. I’ve seen very good-looking men having to drink themselves to a stupor to find any attraction for the trolls who want to sleep with them.
”t NO ONE MAN IS SAFE from hypergamy. It is a strong and primal force that will shun you, your investment, sacrifice, and any other thing you can think off.”
A woman is only loyal to her options. They’re either looking for the biggest Gorilla they can find when they are younger than 28, or they’re looking for Mr. Doctor with family money, good genes, and a lot of desire to spend a fortune on her.
Dang, I remember a 26 year old woman, not bad-looking for her age but nothing to write to Boticelli about – she kept on yapping about some rich older dudes from Israel wanting to marry her and then asking me for my opinion. On what? I wouldn’t outbid rich older men even if I had the money over some 26 year old Spanish woman. Had she been a 18 year old German Claudia Schiffer.. But I’d really have to be rich as hell, lol.
July 15th, 2014 at 8:10 pm
Rollo is totally right when he says that beta bucks are part of the female sexual strategy duality. In most cases the beta bucks are spent by average men with no hope of a quality return in the form of sex from good-looking women, but rich men can acquire what some men have for free. I was staring at the new Transformer female lead. She’s 19. She has Austrian, French, German and English blood.
Her mother was a model and her father is a 72 year old man. He fathered her when he was 53 and his wife was in her late 20s. He also had four boys with her, all older than the 19 year old actress.
He just happens to be a billionaire. Old Mr. Stephen King could go out of Maine today and marry a 18 year old Playboy. But what’s the fun of being with a woman who sees green dollah signs in her eyes when she looks at a guy. It is a good deal for a guy to exchange his money to get a genetic offspring like that actress, but most men can’t achieve that kind of wealth and most average men are lucky to get to raise their real children with the average and below average women who are disgusted by having to mate with men who aren’t genetic Kings.
July 15th, 2014 at 8:20 pm
Jf12: I honestly have no idea what you’re talking about. Taking an active role, and thus experiencing more social rejection, would only cause more suffering and destructive behavior as per the resource model of ego depletion in the article that you linked. It seems you like to share knowledge about the things you are interested in, rather than address the issues I raised.
Rollo:
I don’t know about Jake, I can’t empathize with someone who gets free attraction and then squanders it. And you said he fucks them anyway, so I don’t see the relevance here. The relevance to an ugly beta who gets the backturn or “ugh, fuck off cockroach!” expression when he tries to talk to a girl at the bar and they see he’s not hot. And you’re still referencing this very vague, nebulous idea of “game”. For someone who appears to purport that he is a student of “game”, you utilize very few specifics. What kind of “game” should I use that would make her want to sleep with me, instead of making an expression like she just stepped in dog shit the moment she sees me coming up to her. Tell me, and I’ll go out myself tomorrow night and test it. Serious.
July 15th, 2014 at 8:43 pm
“Anyway, so you’re at a party. A tall guy with a masculine face walks up. He mentions a quick anecdote. Everyone pays close attention. Everyone laughs at the right times. Everyone’s first impression is “this guy is cool, confident, a natural born leader”. ”
A tall guy with a masculine face walks up. People turn toward him, but he does not look them in the eye at all. He mumbles when he talks, holds his beer up to his chest like he’s protecting himself, has his entire other hand stuffed in his pocket. He slouches. He makes a comment which completely derails the current conversation, bringing it to a screeching halt.
He’s cute, so the girls try to engage him in conversation, but he just stares at their tits when he’s not avoiding their gaze. He’s obviously a dullard.
“A short, not so masculine guy walks up and starts talking. Within a few moments people start to lose interest and side conversations spring up. He frantically shifts from face to face looking for some interest which only makes people more uncomfortable. He gets the message, shuts up to down half his drink, and quietly listens to the Alpha as he starts holding court again. If you asked any girl or guy there what their impression of him was? “Unconfident, boring, loser”.”
A short, not so masculine guy walks up, starts talking. He mentions a funny, appropriate anecdote relating to the conversation. He’s witty, makes everyone laugh, introduces himself loudly and firmly. He engages people directly, asking them about themselves, finds connection with everyone in some way.
So, what are everyone’s impressions now?
See, you claim it is all about looks, but your scenario deliberately and specifically relates how important mannerisms, body language, social skills and confidence are to success. You even mention the Alpha using basic PUA tactics:
“He mentions a quick anecdote.”
Sounds like Mystery’s routine stacking to me.
For those citing Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt as what women really want.
Is it ONLY for their looks? Or is it for the fact that:
A) They are famous (demonstration of higher value, social proof)
B) They are confident (one does not emerge at the top of the Hollywood food chain by being a wilting flower or pussy)
C) They worked their asses off to claw their way to the top, i.e. achieved something
D) 150 million women (give or take a few million) ALSO want them (competition anxiety)
I might be able to draw some more things out, but you get the idea. Both guys are good looking by female standards, but Cruise is only 5’7″. According to the height is fate folks here, that makes him unattractive to any woman his height or above.
Someone tell Nicole Kidman.
I, like pretty much everyone here, do not imagine that good looks do not matter for women. There are no delusional people here on that score.
But your insistence that it is the Alpha and Omega (pun sorta intended) of the whole dynamic does not hold up. You are either a very, very defeated man, or are trolling a bit.
Your own examples contradict the idea that Game is a useless and invalid concept. That in and of itself odd, since it encompasses so many ideas.
Take Oneitis for example. Do you not agree that fixating on any particular woman is not a good strategy for men?
July 15th, 2014 at 9:31 pm
A lot of people aren’t naturally confident. If they try to walk into a group and start talking shit it doesn’t seem congruent. I see it a lot.
And a lot of us are defeated. Not just short ugly dudes. A lot of us are just average and not “hot.” It seems like there are people laughing and partying and hooking up and we’re on the sidelines our whole lives.
July 15th, 2014 at 9:46 pm
Where’s YaReally when I need him?
July 15th, 2014 at 9:51 pm
@Max,
“A lot of people aren’t naturally confident.”
Lack of confidence is a killer. It kills the initiative to make something happen, and it squanders shit dropping into your lap.
Years ago, while Blue, Blue Beta, I was leaving an after work get together with a group of people in the city. It’s 1am. I live in the burbs. Most of the people I work with live in the city.
Tall, slim (swimmer), blonde girl I work with, 8, announces:
“Hey, anyone who doesn’t live in the city and wants to crash at my place, you can.”
She then turns to me, cab door open, inviting.
“Seraph?”
This, by the way, at a time when I had not gotten laid in, oh, at least 3 years.
I of course, demurred, and went home.
Now, part of it was simply my Blue Pill mindset.
“Women are never that forward. If I go with her, and make a move at her place, I will make a fool of myself,” was my line of reasoning.
The other was lack of confidence; that I was attractive enough to merit a pass, that I could make a pass and weather a rejection, that I could simply see where the night went, or, in the end, that I could ‘perform’ to whatever expectations I imagined she had.
The point is, the lack of confidence in me blew what was basically a goddamn sitter at the net.
Game ain’t magic, but if it teaches guys to be even 10% less fucking clueless, then it’s worth pursuing.
July 15th, 2014 at 10:19 pm
I have friend who has a number of things working against him. He’s short, sorta goofy looking, big eyes. Resonant voice that doesn’t fit his 5’4″ build. He’s scrawny. He’s loud, often obnoxious has no social grace, and no internal censor. His personality in low energy state is goofball, in high energy is full on weirdo. Looks bad on paper, crappy job, no money not a candidate for Beta Bux. Terrible fashion sense, likes to wear hats usually seen on old Russian men in the 1930s.
Yet he is almost never without a girlfriend. He was once engaged to an 8, she was however the poster child for cray cray, and taller than him by 4″. He dumped her. He has several times met women online and had them pay his cost to travel to meet them. Once to England, once to Australia.
He has no awareness of game or RedPill and is a BluePill guy in thought. So how does he do it? It’s all charisma. He’s got a whacky sense of humor, no fear, is often the smartest guy in the room. He has presence where ever he goes. It not a perfect deal. Women either love him or hate him and want him dead. Most guys think he’s a riot and so he wins over the men. He’s not the AMOG but he’s usually AMOG approved. He reads people very very quickly.
If there’s a lesson from watching him work people it’s this: play to your strengths, avoid playing to your weaknesses, and know when walk away.
July 15th, 2014 at 10:57 pm
Guys are we seriously arguing that looks are not important.
Are you guys kidding!!
Looks are SO important. As are Game, and Power/Money.
Heartsie says Power is #1 (I agree), then whats next – LOOKS! They are the physical embodiment of your genetic worth!
Whats more important than that!
July 16th, 2014 at 12:14 am
Everyone seems to be missing the key point that while primal desire cannot be negotiated, primal desire is not solely generated by looks.
For example: pre-selection.
Take a hot escort out to a bar, or just any attractive female friend, and watch how your results vary.
Yeah, not looks-related at all. And I still definitely don’t concede the point about how men can be late-bloomers and get absolutely no action at 25 but get far-above-average action at 30-35. If looks were everything, the 25 y/o would never experience a barren dating wasteland – according to you ‘looks purists’. Again, I’ve lived it so it’s not even a matter of belief for me, it’s 1st hand experience/knowledge.
July 16th, 2014 at 1:46 am
Bahaha @rollo I love the yareally reference.
And @narec if you believe that it’s the innate looks that fuel a girls desires than accept that a realize you won’t get the hottest models. You cannot change your looks it is a set variable. So why dwell on it? Do what is in your control. Working on how to have fun with a girl it is a skill you will need to have regardless of how hot your girl is.
And when you start getting better at it come back to this blog in a few years and give some field reports (it doesn’t happen overnight rookie). I can tell you’re a young 20s guy
July 16th, 2014 at 2:03 am
Just one more example for @narec
My buddy was the basketball captain 5’11” NOT facially attractive at all had pimples everywhere on his face. And yet he still indirectly gamed this hb 9 that he went to school with and was fucking her for like a year.
Status/power is the most important. Guys with looks are more likely to be squares and not know how to tease girls etc again I’m not saying looks don’t give you an edge.
Again you can’t change looks much so we’re saying do other things that attract girls because there are other things out there.
July 16th, 2014 at 8:06 am
Badpainter:
Most guys think he’s a riot and so he wins over the men. He’s not the AMOG but he’s usually AMOG approved.
In other words, he flies into a set under the radar, without triggering any AMOG tendencies and posturing from the alphas/orbiters/etc. This is the relative “utility” of being (relatively) unremarkable in looks. They’d have no idea of what will hit them. A classic Ya archives situation.
July 16th, 2014 at 9:16 am
Seraph:
Maybe I wasn’t being clear.. The halo effect (and it’s reverse.. colloquially the “Failo” effect) is completely independent of the actual personality and behavior of the person. If you are attractive, people will assign positive personality traits to you. If you are not, they will do the opposite. Full stop. This is scientific fact.
“People tend to believe attractive people as smarter, more successful, more sociable, more dominant, sexually warmer, mentally healthier and higher in self-esteem than their physically unattractive people” – (The Psychology of Persuasion, R.B. Cialdini)
“People pay more attention to physically attractive strangers than to unattractive strangers of either sex.” – (European Journal of Social Psychology, 1994)
“The scores of those physically attractive are higher than less physically attractive people on measures of affect and mood.” – (The impact of physical attractiveness and achievement and psychological well-being, Social Psychology Quarterly).
So basically, the hot guy acting introverted will be PERCEIVED as laid back, mysterious, unimpressed. The ugly guy playing the social butterfly will be PERCEIVED as tryhard and compensating. Understand? This is INNATE to all humans in all cultures. Even if you’re red pilled, your brain will still judge people in this way. Pay attention to people’s responses to varying levels of attractiveness next time you’re at a party.
Seraph:
“Your own examples contradict the idea that Game is a useless and invalid concept. That in and of itself odd, since it encompasses so many ideas.
Take Oneitis for example. Do you not agree that fixating on any particular woman is not a good strategy for men?”
I am not being contradictory. I stated that Game does not create attraction, that’s what started this whole discussion: ‘society is fucked up, hypergamy is rampant but don’t worry because “Game” will give guys the upper hand again.’ That’s simply not realistic.
However Logistics, numbers game (increasing opportunities), or knowing what to avoid so as not to destroy existing attraction, will INCREASE your success rate & number. You can call it “common sense” or “guidelines” or “tips” instead of game.
So for your oneitis question, of course I would say fixating on one woman is a bad strategy and futile. You are not good looking enough for her standards, move on. The more approaches and opportunities you have (“numbers game”) the higher the chance you will find a girl whose standards you meet or exceed. It’s pure math & probability.
“Game” however would state that if you found other girls, it would make your original oneitis attracted to you because of “preselection” and she’d come running back to you. That is, again, simply not realistic.
July 16th, 2014 at 9:26 am
One more motivational kick in the pants for the anguished:
http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/unify_uploads/files/Johnson_etal_2013_TREE.pdf
Cognitive biases have proven to be adaptive. Let that sink in. Haselton’s error management framework has nearly universal applicability (and no, you’re not some special ugly snowflake). Although most probably your perceptions of reality are wrong, even if your perceptions are correct and all of reality really is telling you it is time to turn in early for your dirt nap, the consequences of stopping trying to reproduce are so severe that it *always* makes more sense to ignore reality and try harder anyway by expecting that you will succeed.
July 16th, 2014 at 9:27 am
@narec, your entireattempt at analysis at 9:16 is completely wrong. And I know you know why.
July 16th, 2014 at 9:52 am
narec: Realism is the heart of the red pill. If you have anything working against you whether it be looks, finances, personal history, etc. it IS going to be harder. Theory does not invalidate experience. Accept whatever limitations you have and make the best of it. Game can help you though and actually will make an impression on that oneitis. But, trust me, by the time she comes back, (even if she doesn’t run) you won’t want her. It may realistically take talking to thousands of people to find what you’re looking for, so remember to keep yourself the priority and pace yourself.
Good luck in love,
Kate
July 16th, 2014 at 10:21 am
jf12: my analysis is completely correct and supported by objective evidence, not anecdotes and attacks on the other persons character
Seraph countered my scenarios by making the good looking guy act like an beta and making the ugly guy act like a beta, and thus they were rejected and accepted by the group, respectively. But the entire point is that people’s Halo Effect perceptions are completely independent of how sociable, funny or “confident” the person actually is. Do you understand? A good looking guy would literally have to shit himself in front of everyone to not be immediately positively welcomed, while the ugly guy would really have to be someone special not to be completely ignored. And would it even translate into SEXUAL INTEREST from girls? Probably not
I agree that deluding yourself can be beneficial at times, but if you are truly red pilled there’s no going back. Depressed people are realists, positive people are delusional, this is documented scientific fact. If you know you are not special, you can’t trick yourself to believe this. Even if you do, once you get rejected again, reality will bite you in the ass. You’d have to have an actual psychiatric abnormality (Aspergers?) that would prevent you from being able to understand other peoples behavior and emotions.. Again, either you’re red pilled or not. By even discussing this you’re only making yourself more aware.
July 16th, 2014 at 10:47 am
*ugly guy act like an alpha sorry
July 16th, 2014 at 11:11 am
@narec, have you read this post yet?
http://therationalmale.com/2013/04/19/the-evolution-of-game/
July 16th, 2014 at 11:25 am
narec,
I agree with you.
you are not insane. You are not dissociated from reality.
Guys nothing compensates!
Game will not compensate shitty looks.
That’s like saying being funny compensates for being jobless with no income.
The idea of compensation in mutually exclusive categories is whats dissociated from reality.
Looks =/ social savvy (Game)
July 16th, 2014 at 11:53 am
re: changing Game. I’m not getting any sense from narec or any of those guys that they ever tried anything but build-a-better-beta which they mistook for game. None of what they are saying makes sense to me otherwise. I don’t see that they actually tried old style make-yourself-stand-out Mysteryish game, nor devolution into caveman game “You, me, now” (which is much more effective than one might theorize …), nor jerkboy game, nor winggirls, nor anything at all, really. All I see is them wishing, effeminately, that they could be Sleeping Beauty.
July 16th, 2014 at 12:05 pm
Yes Nathan, that’s what im trying to say. If a woman doesn’t find you physically attractive, if she thinks she can do better than you, nothing you say or do or show (“game”) will make a difference. If you can fuck 7s, why would you fuck a 5 just because they’re “confident”?
Rollo: yes I have read that article when I found this site. It mentions the word “game” 100+ times yet is very vague about specifics. And it lauds it in a way that a reader outside the community might think it was some sort of Jedi Force or superpower… I come away learning only that “game” is hated by feminists, that it usurps their control, and if they could they would ban it like Saudi Arabia bans female driving and learning – lest they usurp male control.
Your definition “series of behavioral modifications to life skills based on psychological and sociological principles to facilitate intersexual relations between genders.” is extremely broad. It could include almost anything. The statement “don’t bother trying to fuck girls if you don’t look like a male model, save your time and money” would be included here, wouldn’t it? What “game” is that then, other than knowing when it’s worth playing and when you should quit?
Most of it is mental masturbation – although entertaining, since personally I am fascinated by modern inter-sex relations as are you. But we’re not going to change society and human biology.
So, a better question is: Is female hypergamy and sexual filtering (as you phrased it) threatened by “game” – will it make women fuck guys they don’t find attractive as in Saudi Arabia? The answer to that is invariably no. If you want sex from them, you have to play by their rules and standards, which is to be good looking, and better yet famous too. Am I wrong ?
July 16th, 2014 at 12:16 pm
No tricks.
Be authentic.
If looks are your deficiency, don’t try to paper over that with game.
Instead go get cosmetic surgery and work out.
A healthy person addresses the REAL issue.
A nonhealthy person compensates in another area.
Compensating in another area.= inauthenticity. And = a trick.
People HATE tricks
July 16th, 2014 at 12:23 pm
No jf12.. I haven’t. Well, maybe a bit of teasing “jerk” stuff but everyone does that.
But neither did you
July 16th, 2014 at 12:40 pm
narec asks rehetorically “Am I wrong?”
The 80% of ugly guys who get laid (sometimes) anyway all answer “You are wrong!”
July 16th, 2014 at 12:42 pm
re: People HATE tricks. Then women aren’t people, which isn’t far from the truth.
Treating women like men like to be treated doesn’t *work*. Women LUV drama and conspiricies, especially invented ones.
July 16th, 2014 at 12:43 pm
@narec, Let me ask you this, why does an ugly rockstar like Lemmy from Motorhead or Gene Simmons get more pussy than male models with a strong halo effect?
What qualities do they possess that pushes past the halo effect and makes women choose them?
You might think my definition of Game is too broad, but I’d say your own is too narrow. Game isn’t just PUA scripts and peacocking in funny hats to bang girls in clubs.
Again, it’s about context. If I’m the only SMV 8 guy at an event where the next highest guy is a 7, I’m on top of my game, until an SMV 9 guy shows up.
If you have two men of comparable ‘hotness’ which man will do better – the guy with better social savvy and understanding about women, or the one without it? Who’s better off in an LTR, the hot guy who understands women’s natures or the hot guy who just doesn’t get it when it comes to women?
Neil Strauss published The Game in 2003, if your understanding of Game is still rooted in that book in 2014 you don’t understand what Game is or how it’s evolved.
July 16th, 2014 at 12:50 pm
@Nathan
So getting plastic surgery is the real Red Pill
July 16th, 2014 at 12:54 pm
Guys, ugly guys do not get laid. I’ll repeat, they do not grt laid.
men do not get that much sex.
http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com/2014/07/illusions-and-structures-how-sexual.html?m=1
July 16th, 2014 at 1:29 pm
“Where’s YaReally when I need him?”
You must be joking. That guy is a keyboard jockey and RSD chode rider. I’ve looked at his archive and he spews lies much like these other PUA con-artists. Just have a look at this post:
http://www.yareallyarchive.com/2013/2/#comment-heartiste-407840
I can’t believe some guys actually fall for this stuff.
As for what’s stated in these comments, I agree wholeheartedly. True primal desire cannot arise by Game. It comes from the aesthetic pleasure people see in each other. Just think about it. In cavemen days, game was practically non-existent as a driving force because what females relied heavily on was the physical. Is this guy big? Is he strong? Can he fend us from predators? A cavechick didn’t look for his ability to agree and amplify, his ability to neg her, or his AMOG techniques from potential predators. Nope.
She looked for honest, and fast signals of his genetic superiority. People back in the day didn’t have time for courtship, they perceptually went after what they found to be good looking in another mate. The reason why this is shunned by some women when they say “personality matters more” is because they are trying to hide their beta bucks strategy.
This strategy of seeking out good looking genes (alpha fucks) must have been going on for quite some time because it’s still a driving force (no matter how hidden) for women all over. You can’t eliminate thousands of years of aesthetic selection from women just by body language or PUA tactics. This is a red pill blog, so let’s be real here.
If you’ve ever seen how feral a women can get with an alpha stud, then you’ll realize that most of this is well out of the reach for most men. I’ll say 80%, give or take.
All men aren’t created equal; get over it.
July 16th, 2014 at 1:30 pm
Mr. Tom Cruise is 5’6” if I’m not mistaken. Well, he is short for an American man, but the guy is seriously handsome. He looks much better in his 50’s than most guys do in their 20s and he’s aged pretty damn well. Men of great natural looks usually keep those looks,like some women like Nicole Kidman and Jennifer Lopez keep their SMV pretty high.
A short height can be compensated by a very handsome face, indeed. If the women are average or the men around the shorter dude aren’t remarkably. very rich men like Tom Cruise can snag hot women in their prime, but his ex-wife does seem to have a preference for shorter men, does she not?Her husband Keith is as short as Tom, albeit quite good-looking.
Ugly rock stars get women because they are rich. These guys are seen as nothing more than easy marks for very good-looking women and the amount of cash they dole out in the form of child-support and alimony more than make up for the sex the women had to go through to catch a rich wallet.
Charisma is useful and it can make the man interesting but it won’t make the women sleep with the guy. I have seen tall, dull men who wouldn’t talk much and the women didn’t mind. I remember seeing this decent-looking guy/average height with great conversation skills, worked on body language(he seemed like he had studied Game) putting the work on an average but bang-able woman of 22 and she seemed to be into him. Cue in the 6’3” kid who was so high he could barely walk and she leaves the company of the other guy to join the Dumb and dumber personification and she left with him. It was the first time she saw him.
Women can’t control their body language anymore than we can. When we see a woman we desire, she knows it. Women are made from the same mold. They can pretend to be into a guy with words and behaviors and body language but its see-through.
Most of the men whom I’ve met in my decades of life, the ones who have average and attractive women dropping everything to be pumped and dumped by these guys live on their looks for everything. I’ve even had to teach one 25 year old guy how to attach a file to an email. I am aware that Brazil is a jungle, but these dudes aren’t Native South Americans.
A bald guy with a topee is still bald. Average men with Game are still average and Game – the imitation of the behaviors and psychological characteristics of Alpha men – can not atone for low genetic quality.
Women are wired to only feel sexual, genuine sexual desire for men who are physically remarkable. That’s why most of the men who ever lived didn’t reproduce and probably never got laid, and the vast majority of all women had children.
July 16th, 2014 at 1:30 pm
@jf12: “…I’m not going to read Heartiste, but I probably don’t disagree with him at all, if he’s saying hot girls are usually as nice as non-hot girls.”
Actually I believe what he is saying is that a population of hot girls are vulnerable and insecure. I’ll add to that that the motivations for keeping oneself in top physical form are myriad. One of those motivations is “to please”. That by no means means that all “hot women” are primarily motivated “to please” only that some are.
“The point I was trying to make is that I do no know of *any* women who naturally *tend* to be kind and submissive and giving to most men *ever*.”
In returning to the U.S. (after having been abroad/isolated for 13 years), I notice how difficult it is to find such women. However, one of the reasons it is so difficult is because such a woman is naturally afraid of other women–rationally so. On the other hand, there are plenty of men just waiting to unload all their frustrations on her. Therefore, there is no reason for such a woman to expect social support of any kind from anyone–certainly not “most men” or “most women” who are “mostly damaged”.
Therefore, they are unlikely to travel in groups.
Of course, tradcons and prostitutes might both appear to be so motivated, but, the herd mentality works against them too.
“It still hasn’t ceased to amaze me that “some people” think women have magic pickers, and magic eyes, and magic intuition, and are so hard to mislead.” LOL.
Anyone can be misled. The Behaviorists and Madison Avenue have proven that. Moreover, anyone can be trained to operate against his or her own best interests–especially generationally as a continuum such that the roots can be easily obscured. Can a woman be persuaded that her best interests are to serve? Yes. How? Like I’m going to write that and have beta male losers (Hi George) give it a shot, fail, and then unload on the next woman to give him the time of day.
Therefore, while there may be an evolutionary continuum to both “masculine” and “feminine” behavior, technologically-driven, universal propaganda has changed the motivations of various demographics–if not all–to disparate systems of values. Therefore, there is no “all men” or “all women” anymore, unless one is talking about a very specific demographic that has somehow avoided the targetted propaganda of the Twentieth Century–or has transcended it against all odds.
I can’t convince you and you can’t convince me–purely rhetorically–to abandon subconscious motivations. However, the Behaviorists have proven how generationally demographics can be programmed to self-destruct.
A service-oriented heterosexual submissive woman has been programmed to self-destruct before she can be an effective role model to others. Which life raft will she reach for? More than likely, the feminists, government, WalMart, or the physical or mental health establishments. Otherwise, she won’t survive. Or perhaps she’s living alone, simply, in a shack in the woods until a mob comes along to make her their scapegoat.
The only way I see to break out of that inevitability is to cease to view survival as paramount and otherwise to voluntarily step into the volcano, unafraid, and transcend the dystopia.
July 16th, 2014 at 1:38 pm
narec wants an instruction manual for game.
This reminds me of all the MBAs and other business students running round campus reading TQM, as Sun Tzu in the ely 90s and then complaing it ddn’t work at their various McJobs. The mistake was that the teachers didn’t explain TQM is applied critical thinking not a how to guide, Sun Tzu is philosophy not a strategy guide. Together they are a path to a zen state.
Game seems the same to me. Rollo, Roosh, Roissy separately have many valuable things to say. Taken together they a critical thinking process about socio-sexual relations, throw the RedPill on top of that and that’s the path to zen.
I recommend Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance a good place for narec to start.
July 16th, 2014 at 1:49 pm
“Badpainter:
Most guys think he’s a riot and so he wins over the men. He’s not the AMOG but he’s usually AMOG approved.
In other words, he flies into a set under the radar, without triggering any AMOG tendencies and posturing from the alphas/orbiters/etc.”
Or maybe this guy is just genuinely friendly and social with women AND men. Without any agenda, other than the fact that he – like all men – would prefer the outcome of getting laid that night.
But he’s not attached to that, because he has abundance, so he simply endeavors to have a great time with everybody, men as well as women. Imagine that.
July 16th, 2014 at 1:54 pm
jf12
“re: People HATE tricks. Then women aren’t people, which isn’t far from the truth.”
Good to know.
P.S. Please unfan me on hp. No tricks. Tx.
July 16th, 2014 at 2:07 pm
“A bald guy with a topee is still bald. Average men with Game are still average and Game – the imitation of the behaviors and psychological characteristics of Alpha men – can
not atone for low genetic quality.”
BINGO
July 16th, 2014 at 2:12 pm
I’ll drop this one more time before I move over to the new comment thread; I don’t disagree with anything narec has presented about the importance physicality plays in women’s arousal. If anything I’ve locked horns with other manosphere bloggers about women’s prioritization of the physical:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/02/23/looks-count/
http://therationalmale.com/2012/04/13/have-a-look/
Part of red pill awareness is accepting this and learning to maneuver within that context. If that means get off the sofa and start lifting so you can appeal to another SMV class of women, so be it.
I also don’t subscribe to the Roissy model of confidence being itself the source of arousal, but rather that physical bearing and appearance are rewarded by female attention, thus increasing sexual options and thus increasing confidence.
That said, Game is more than just antiquated PUA scripts. Game and red pill awareness has evolved beyond the Mystery Method caricatures. If a girl is aroused by two relatively hot guys, the one who understands Game better is the one she’s going home with.
Most guys simply aren’t hot. As I’ve stated before, it amazes me that the most directly controllable aspect of attracting women should be the one men place the most resistance to – getting in shape. Hell, almost 70% of the US population is overweight or obese; just getting into nominal shape will statistically put most guys ahead of the fat curve.
So, again, within that context, your physical appearance gets a woman interested (i.e. Tinder), but Game keeps her interested. You wont apply Game to an unresponsive girl, even Roosh and Krauser admit as much, but once your foot is past the arousal door, Game reinforces and consolidates on that attraction.
As I’ve been quoted many times, your bulletproof game and charming personality wont make you look any better when your shirt comes off. However, if I look just as good with my shirt off as another guy, it comes down to which of us ‘just gets it’.
July 16th, 2014 at 2:26 pm
I actually think Lemmy has a traditional, rugged, masculine look. he might be a little ragged, but I can see how some would find him handsome. looks for a man the key is rugged, not pretty. maybe better idea to give yourself scars on your face than cosmetic surgery!