To start off today’s topic I thought I’d repost a Red Pill reddit thread I received a link-back to last week. Rather than give you my own summary of this guy’s situation, I felt the impact would be more significant by posting it in its entirety; and also because I don’t believe the guy really got a fair hearing on his original post.
I posted this earlier on another subreddit but it ended up getting removed because of fighting in the comments. I’ll sum up what happened thus far. I met my wife 7 years ago, she was extremely picky when it came to sex. She told me she only has been with 1 other guy before. She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but I really liked her and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, it never got any better but I learned to get over it. Well I ended up finding an old video from her college days of her engaging in group sex with 6 other people 5 guys 1 girl. In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it. I ended up feeling really sad. I can understand certain stuff people don’t want to do, but it wasn’t the fact she didn’t want to do them. She didn’t want to do them with me but every other guy she was their whore. I was angry hurt and I ended up saying some stupid shit to my wife.
I asked her if she could drop our daughter off at her sister’s house because I wanted to talk to her. She asked why, I told her we’d discuss after she came back.
I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.
Me: Is there anything about your past you have been hiding about me?
Her: Why are we talking about this?
Me: I just want to know were you in any type of porn or anything like that?
Her: are you taking drugs?
Me: I found your video from college with the other guys. I don’t know who you are anymore and I feel ill being around you.
She starts crying.
Me: Do you have anything to say?
She continues to cry. This was pointless I go to grab my keys to leave. And she tries to stop me.
Me: If you don’t want me to leave then I need you to be 100% honest with me, and tell me why you lied to me for all these years.
She: I didn’t want you to think I was a slut
Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me, I would have loved to have done those wild things with you. Look I get it I don’t turn you on like those other guys do. You liked sucking their dicks but not mine.
She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.
Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.
She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.
Me: I don’t want you to do it because you feel like you have to. I want someone that actually desires me.
She: I can change I promise don’t ruin our marriage over this we can work things out. We can go to marriage counseling seriously talk to me.
Me: Marriage counseling won’t change how you feel about me. Look I will try marriage counseling but I want a trial separation for now.
She: Please don’t do this. Don’t throw away our marriage for what I did in college please.
Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.
She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you
Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.
She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change.
Me: I am not divorcing you but I want a trial separation for now, and I want to see how things go, right now I feel sick looking at you.
I ended up leaving my wife kept trying to stop me. She kept on begging saying I could do anything I wanted with her, it was truly pathetic and I lost all respect for my wife the way she was trying to manipulate me with sex.
I am staying at a motel right now; I have been getting constant calls from my wife. She has been asking me where I am, if I tell her than she is going to confront me and I don’t feel like I am ready for that. I feel so fucking drained. I feel bad saying those things to my wife but I don’t know what else to do I am so fucking hurt over this.
As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously, wouldn’t care but the fact she did all those things for other guys but doesn’t do them for me hurts me the deepest.
I don’t see how this marriage can be recovered. I can’t change her attraction to me. My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.
Please tell me what exactly I can do, my confidence as a man has been destroyed. Before I found out about this, I tried to get my wife to open up sexually but she completely shot it down. I really believe she isn’t attracted to me in the way she was to those other guys. That’s why she felt completely fine being “their whore” but won’t give me a blow job. I want a woman that looks at me lustfully, not that has sex with me to fulfill “wifey duties.”
I don’t feel entitled to other types of sex with my wife. I want her to want to do them. Now even if she does do them it will be out of guilt, not out of desire. I don’t see how we can recover our marriage. I feel really shitty that I won’t be able to seem my daughter as much, especially during her younger years.
I have already made some calls to reroute my paychecks and get my finances in order if we do go for a divorce. My brother works at a big law firm, I am thinking about contacting him to at least see what I should be doing now. Thing is once I call him it becomes the point of no return, if I tell my family members than their image of my wife becomes destroyed. Also I’d have to check because right now she is dependent on me for health insurance, and I don’t want her to be deprived of that if we do divorce, because she has been having health issues. I don’t want to ruin anything but I can’t see how things would ever be okay. If you don’t have any advice for me and are just going to be judgmental please don’t waste your time commenting. I know I said some hurtful things in there but you don’t know the level of hurt I am feeling right now. I have apologized to my wife since then, but I don’t see how our relationship can be recovered.
Edit – I want to make things work, between me and my wife. I understand she doesn’t want to do certain sex acts. I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage. That way we can still be together as a family and we both can have the fulfilling sex lives we want.
There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.
As our culture becomes more technologically adept, electronic records – whether they’re ‘self-shots’, incriminating GNO pics uploaded to various forms of social media, male-stripper party videos, or amateur / semi-pro pornography – will have an increasingly greater role in filling the pieces of the puzzle that constitutes a woman’s relational and sexual past. The real problem will cease to be doing any actual detective work, and more about what a (Beta) man will allow himself to believe about his ‘special snowflake’ in contrast to the gestalt knowledge of women’s behaviors on whole.
There was a recent article posted on Return of Kings by Emmanuel Goldstein detailing the Game necessity of presuming all women are sluts. In light of stories like this it’s hard not to see the pragmatism in that, but at least when you are single, Game-aware and spinning plates you have the luxury and (should have) the foresight to know that even the Good Girls ‘Do’ have the inclination to go feral with the hot Alpha in the foam cannon party in Cancun on Spring Break when she’s in the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle.
Predictably, I’m sure the “ooh, ooh men do it too!” wing of the critics gallery will be the first to cry foul, as they ever have, about my drawing attention to the feral dynamics of sexual side of feminine hypergamy. And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.
The Best of Her
The author of this reddit thread is feeling the sharp end of that Hypergamic equation. While I’m sure there will be every effort made to paint this man’s wife as some fucked up, emotionally damaged, and conveniently, sexually abused victim (we don’t know this, but that was the default association in the comments of his original thread), the operative I’m driving at here isn’t about her individualized experiences, but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism.
Prior to the advent of technologies that could evidentially prove women’s sexual exploits (often proudly so now) the more visceral aspects of a woman’s sexuality, and the inconvenient hindbrain/hormonal prompts that motivate them, could be kept secret well enough to deceive a man with provisioning potential to commit to the long term security the other half of her Hypergamy demands. As the technology to record this becomes more ubiquitous, more permanent and fluid in its use, as men become more interconnected by it, and as women enjoy more self-affirmation from it, rationalizing her past indiscretions becomes more of an imperative.
Men saturated and conditioned over the better half of their lifetime by the feminine imperative to be the convenient cuckolds to women’s Hypergamy – men like the author of this confession – have an ego-invested interest in presuming the woman they pair with will be “giving him the best of herself” once his ship comes in and all of his patience and equalist beliefs finally pay off.
Only, men like this discover too late, usually well after they realize their commitment has hamstrung their SMV peak potential, that not only have they been a retroactive cuckold (sometimes even moralistically proud to be so), but they’ve been socially conditioned to be one, by their mothers, their emasculated fathers, their sisters, female friends, teachers and the whole of the feminine imperative’s effort for most of their lives.
One of the reasons I, and most of the manosphere, receive so much scorn from plugged-in, feminine primary society is that we risk to expose this process. This author’s story is the inconvenient truth of a pluralistic feminine sexual strategy. Women’s capacity to cash out of the SMP, to raise children, to create a semblance of a family life so conflicted with her single life, on what she thinks should be her terms, all rides on keeping men with a long term provisioning potential (greater Betas) ignorant of their pre-cuckolding and the conditioning that took so long to convince them would be their responsibility.
I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.
The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Once the belief that he’s getting the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp focus.
I Want You to Want Me
Naturally, once a woman’s true sexual capacity is revealed after the establishment of her normalized, married sexuality, her first impetus is to preserve the provisioning she enjoyed while ‘her secret’ was working for her.
Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.
She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.
[…] She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change
What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.
He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.
December 27th, 2013 at 2:30 am
While the analysis was interesting it seemed to miss the main point. I didn’t see the guy as overly concerned with his wife’s sexual past as he is with her present character, and what her sexual withholding from him says about her.
The level of dishonesty and manipulation and betrayal here is epic. This guy made a huge sacrifice of his own sexual desires in the service of a romantic love, accepting a defect in his wife claimed to have. I mean, what he’s done with her is huge. To make a concession like this only to find out that she’s been lying the whole time.
And I don’t get that he’s trying to negotiate desire at all. She claims to desire him and but claims to not be into certain sexual acts or have the same libido as him. This is quite different. I mean is the author really saying that she just hooked a beta provisioner and that she lied about all this because she isn’t attracted to him?
i see another possibility. Women will use the withdrawal of sex to control and maintain the upper hand in a relationship. It would be interesting to know about the rest of their relationship. Is there any form of abuse present? Does she display an NPD characteristics? It could be pathology.
But in any event, he should be done with her. She’s either a seriously whacked out, abusive woman or she’s got the character of a slug. I think it’s a given also that she’s cheated on him. I would at a minimum have her subjected to a lie detector test before he would even consider staying with her so he can get honest answers about any aspect of her behavior in their relationship so he actually knows what he’s getting into.
My only reluctance in telling him to run screaming from her is that they have children. As a 51 year old who divorced young when my daughter was 4, I can tell you that divorcing with a young child and the mother having physical custody will be the destruction of his family – not hers. He has everything to lose. If he thinks he can get sole or shared custody, that would be entirely different – then I would tell him to get out. This is a very sick person or a lowlife of Shakespearean proportions or a bit of both and I can’t ever see a man who respects himself getting over it.
December 30th, 2013 at 10:29 pm
Wow- this story gave me chills. I got together with my husband when I was 16 married 2 years later and I believe that saved me in so many ways. It is completely unnatural for women to be 25-26 before even thinking about a marriage relationship. It’s a great service the red pill community does for men (and women). I thank my father for his blessing on my relationship, my husband for picking me, and God for giving me those two! I’m no angel and “all women ARE like that” but we can be rescued from our culture (feminized) for the good of ourselves and our community if we will allow God and our natural protectors (men) to guide us. This comment is so far down I doubt ill see any response. But thank you to all you men who carry on for this generation and hopefully the daughters of this generation of men. Only the luckiest of women have clear headed men to steer them away from ruinous desires. That said I absolutely do not blame any man for any woman wounding her husband the way this woman did. This is terrible and I wish happiness for him in whatever way he can find it. She should live with haunting guilt for robbing her husband of his rightful place in her heart and desires. Sunshine Mary had a post for this kind of woman – I believe it was called “the unrepentant slut doesn’t want her husband” or something like that.
January 6th, 2014 at 7:27 pm
Fake.
can’t believe how many people fell for this one
January 7th, 2014 at 10:03 am
That is truly a nightmare scenario. I literally feel his pain while reading it. At first I thought maybe he should cut her a break. She was young, dumb & made a mistake that she probably isn’t proud of. She probably felt like a worthless whore and never wants to feel like that again. But then, why the hell would she still have the tape?
January 14th, 2014 at 2:12 pm
“As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously”
Oh, really? You wouldn’t? I don’t blame the girl for keeping it from him. For all she knew, he would freak out over it just like he freaked out over her lying about it!
Best policy is to be honest and let the chips fall where they may. If you have to lie to someone to get them to care about you, then they don’t really care about you.
I think this guy came across as a little selfish. The girl did some dumb stuff in college and regretted it — forcing her to do it all now, with you? Not cool. How does he know she “enjoyed” it in those videos? It doesn’t sound like she did.
Get over it, and realize shes cares about YOU, not those stupid guys in college.
This guy put too much emphasis on doing kinky things in bed as being the most important thing in life. Gezz.
January 14th, 2014 at 2:21 pm
Hey Dave, come on over to the discussion. We’re over here
http://therationalmale.com/2014/01/14/the-second-set-of-books/?replytocom=28441#respond
Its gotten good!
January 15th, 2014 at 3:34 pm
it can be rescued …. better the devil you know….. but only if you man up a little bit…… oh my feelings are hurt…. bla bla.. you sound like a chick….
take her to a good counselor… check him out first on your own and make sure he’s just a little red pill… not a total feminist nut job…and no women counselors… no way !.
have a joint session and then leave her on her own for a couple of sessions…. let her pour out all the emotion… and then ream her in the ass when she gets home…
treat her like the piece of shit she is… don’t let feelings come into it…. you have opened pandoras box… you will have her on her knees for you, until her tits sag to meet them….
a bad situation is an opportunity to the right guy…
January 17th, 2014 at 11:19 am
Stumbled upon this post while looking for advice. Something similar happened to me just a month ago.
Started a relationship with this girl. Outgoing, passionate type that lived with no regrets. But after settling with me that passion disappeared. Her standards suddenly shot up. She went from “living life with no regrets” to “we should wait and do it right, make it special”. We did only the most basic of acts. It never felt that she had given herself over completely to me but she insisted she loved me. I was naive and believed her. Then a few months later she ended up in the hospital for what she told me was an ovarian cyst. Then her stance changed to “sex before marriage is a wrong” and adopts religion out of nowhere.
That 0.01% of my brain that wasn’t socially retarded told me that something was off. I did some digging. Found so many things….
A sex tape of her and her ex dated two months after we were seeing each other.
Pictures of him in her house about a week after that.
Search history for a late period.
Pictures of a positive pregnancy test.
Followed by searches for abortion pills.
Then searches for complications after successful abortion (which was what sent her to the hospital).
The searches for how soon she could have sex again after a successful abortion.
I confronted her about the cheating and she denied it, even questioned my audacity to accuse her of such things. I presented the evidence little by little. Each time she thought that was all I knew and concocted a lie to get around it.
The video. “That’s from when we were together. It has that date because I copied it to my computer then” (Why keep it though?).
The pics placing him there when the conception would have occurred. “Yes he was there but I swear to God we never had sex. He just came to talk”.
The search history for the abortion. “You were actually the father. I was afraid that you’d never believe me so I hid it” (Bullshit. We never fucked).
After the ridiculousness of that last excuse she finally relented. Then came the emotional manipulation. Justifications, tears, stalking, suicide threats… When it looked I was leaving for good she straight up told me she’ll fuck me, do anything I wanted to keep me.
I felt everything the author of that post did. Crushed by seeing the desire she had, still has for her ex and knowing that you never received it. And the realization that I was being used just for the lifestyle I could afford her.
All this was in a span of 6 months. I can’t imagine what 7 years of investment would feel like.
This was my first exposure to this side of women. I thought I was unlucky to meet the one sociopath capable of doing these things and lying to my face everyday afterwards, but it seems like it’s universal. Hard lesson learnt.
January 17th, 2014 at 11:29 am
Thanks for that Kwesi. Have a read of this post too:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/12/19/the-epiphany-phase/
February 5th, 2014 at 12:03 am
[…] young – at Peak Freshness and Ripeness; in other words, and to quote my Man Rollo, Papa O got the best of what Mama O had to offer of herself, when it actually mattered – not some “stale” stuff well past its “sell […]
February 16th, 2014 at 8:03 pm
my advice might go on several lines. you have to do some soul searching, but before you do or along with that, you have to have some insight, some deeper wider insight. Women are not attracted or aroused by looks. If she isn’t attracted or aroused by you, it could be because of your behavior. She is merely responding, or not responding. They got what you don’t? Not necessarily, though ti could be. But they behave as you do not. The hardest thing is retraining ourselves how to behave, but you are already half way there- by not being manipulated by her by guilt. I am a very suspicious person by nature but I’d say take her words at closer to face value than you are doing- if her facial expression looks like she’s being sincere. Then from here on, you have a choice- here is one good thing-
fuck her in the ass, deep throat her, etc, and then decide do you want to leave her or stay. This will really make her feel anxious/insecure. Good! We want that, not because we are sadists. Ok we are sadists. Not because it is good for our protection. Ok it is good for our protection. But because a man’s gotta do what a man’s gotta do. After you fuck her in the ass, decide if you want to keep her or not, but from now on you were the pants. Read some romance novels. My new theory is that as women age, money becomes more important, in general. This is true for men or me as well. When they are young, daddy pays. In college, student loans pay. As adults, they earn it themselves, or else hubby pays. Therefore, financial security becomes more important (and for women, this means attractive) as they age. Use this to your advantage. That is not criminal or ‘bad’. That is la via natural. Eject anyone and culture who says otherwise; They merely mean to plunder. How you can, in a nutshell, view or perceive it, is that she was there for you all these years, ready to be taken, ravished, fucked up the ass, but you were not confident, direct, perseverance enough to MAKE USE OF HER. You tolerated it and now you are feeling resentful, blaming, regretful, confused, guilty, unloved, undesired, etc. Fine. Respect the past. Grieve and heal. And then orient yourself towards the future. Take stock of your resources and abilities- and do what’s best. You can always divorce her later, but you could be fucking her in the ass now. She said she would comply! Are you expecting her to be like a man, and initiate? Be aroused by your looks alone? What are you doing to set the scene? Napoleon was not of great physical stature, but he could operate and command. Do you think she got aroused by the mere presence of these men in college? You are perhaps erring in your estimation of things. It is to be understood. Probably you will do what leads to future regret. maybe you will simply become compassionate again and lose that magical tension that you had with her that made her want to please you and save the marriage. Actually congratulations- you are giving her the drama now that she wants and craves- that people watch soap operas about. Now just finalize it with sex, by fucking her up the ass. Do it! Score! it’s called sexual healing or sexual relationship reconciliation. You can talk over your problems for days, but sex heals rifts. Intercourse! Read some female erotica to understand the female libido and its receptive placating nature. Why not call this love? the preacher Paul had his platonic idealistic version of love which western civilization has used as its definition for too long. Cupid had his version, which I like a little better. You can also sleep around and keep her. You are the maker of rules- and if you are not, you have a bigger problem. They must respect you- But they are respecting you. Never punish people- over punish them- when they are submitting. Too much and they give up, it causes resentment and frustration- and we don’t want that, actually. We want female submission, not female frustration. We want female submission in proper position, whereby we can capitalize and fuck them in the ass. You have the other elements of your life in order- it sounds like. Congrats, many men do not. Take a minute and enjoy and fuck her in the butthole, the one eyed wonder.
February 16th, 2014 at 8:27 pm
@jope: Exactly right. She wants him to step up and user her
February 17th, 2014 at 11:40 am
I imagine this comment will get buried in the other 700+ here so far, but I’m going to write it anyway.
This man’s struggle parallels my own. Rollo, I’ve recently finished your book, and wish I could turn back time, but… of course I can’t.
I’m left where he is, struggling to accept the red pill reality that my older wife selected me as her provider ten+ years ago, and willfully abandoned her previous sexually adventurous side to settle down with young, dumb me.
I get it. I accept it. I was blind, and now I see. I’m just, like OP, not sure what to do with that information now.
I feel (hopefully?) somewhat like he’s jumping to the conclusion that there’s no chance she’ll ever feel the desire to do sexually adventurous things with him, since he’s never really challenged her conviction. Is it possible, that she is telling the truth? That she actively suppressed her sexuality in order to keep him? Is it similarly possible that she might reverse that suppression and take a more active interest in sex with him, once she accepts that he truly wants her to be his slut? Or is that a delusional fantasy?
My red pill awakening is tied up with the reality of a wife and a young son, and I’m not much of a throw the baby out with the bathwater kind of guy.
What does that teach my kid – when our expectation doesn’t match reality, the only solution is scorched earth?
Internal reflection continues.
February 17th, 2014 at 2:19 pm
[…] sexually adventurous in her past than she ever was with him for the duration of his marriage – Saving the Best. That post, and the 700+ comment thread that followed were cause for a lot of righteous indignation […]
February 17th, 2014 at 6:27 pm
[…] to discover that their wives did things with previous boyfriends that she won’t even consider doing with her husband? The man whose name she’s taken, whose children she bore, and whose legal & financial […]
February 17th, 2014 at 7:26 pm
Good luck Lucas. It can be tough when one realizes everything they previously believed was quicksand. What next? What actions to take? My personal view is we have one life. We don’t have to be martyrs for other people.
One interesting issue you raise, and maybe Rollo can address it…I’d like to hear his take. Can you take a relationship founded in blue-pill deception and the one Set of Rules and remake it to one based on red-pill truths and the other Set of Rules, or is the only answer scorched Earth, blow the building up, and build anew on new ground?
February 23rd, 2014 at 10:54 pm
[…] Lucas had petitioned me earlier about his particular situation being similar to the guy in Saving the Best. What the kid in the Subway made me think of was a wondering if he had at one time been relatively […]
March 3rd, 2014 at 5:59 am
Hypergamy. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Do you mean polyamory?
I’m also confused that you frame this as a deceit. There is no evidence she was unfaithful with her husband. No evidence he was “cuckolded”. This was something she did before she met him and obviously decided it wasn’t for her. Men and women don’t marry people to deceive them. That’s not the end game for most people – only sociopaths. Finding a compatible pair bond can be tricky. She was honest with him from the start of their relationship about who she was then – not before or after – but then, at the start of their relationship. The mistake he made was one millions of women make too – thinking they can change a partner. That was his compromise too far. His de or emasculation right there. And it happened right at the start – with something he did to himself – not with him finding the video.
I understand he was devastated by it. It hurt his ego and masculinity. But that hurt does not equate to anything else but a lesson learned for him to be more honest and up front about his needs in any future relationship.
March 3rd, 2014 at 1:07 pm
Don’t try to make it work. Walk, better yet run. Don’t spend the next 30 years of your life getting taken advantage of.
March 3rd, 2014 at 1:43 pm
This is a response to Paula Wright’s entry. I’m sincerely hoping you’re trolling for comic relief, because when I ready our comment, I see so much wrong there it’s almost ludicrous.
“Hypergamy. You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. Do you mean polyamory?”
No, I think he means hypergamy. The definition’s pretty much clarified on this site. Maybe a refresher course is in order?
“I’m also confused that you frame this as a deceit. There is no evidence she was unfaithful with her husband. No evidence he was “cuckolded”. This was something she did before she met him and obviously decided it wasn’t for her.”
Yes, it’s deceit, plain and simple. If I made $500K but never told my wife, and insisted we eat ramen noodles and mac-n-cheese 5 days week, it’d be pretty clear I was hiding my finances from her view, hence deceit. Plus, given her past, you’d be a stone fool to NOT take a paternity test at this point. Pretty straightforward as deceit, don’t you think?
“She was honest with him from the start of their relationship about who she was then – not before or after – but then, at the start of their relationship. “
No, she actually was dishonest with her partner fromthe very beginning, as she didn’t mention that teensy* little incident regarding the filmed gangbang. I’m willing to go out on the ledge here, and surmise that if she did mention that small, barely important* little incident, there’d be no marriage, no provisioning for her, no child support. So she hid it, and got the deliverables she wanted.
*Sarcasm intended.
“That was his compromise too far. His de or emasculation right there. And it happened right at the start – with something he did to himself – not with him finding the video.”
Agreed. He should NEVER have entered into a serious relationship with someone he was sexually incompatible with. I grant you that point. He put his balls in her purse and gave her the key. Sucks when that happens, but it happens more often than you think. Go into any bar in your town, buy the guys there a round of drinks, open the conversation with no women present and you’d be appalled at what you hear.
“I understand he was devastated by it. It hurt his ego and masculinity. But that hurt does not equate to anything else but a lesson learned for him to be more honest and up front about his needs in any future relationship.”
I agree with you, but NOT in the way you think. Yes, he learned a very important lesson that day. He learned that a romantic heart, with all the best will in the world, will always blind you to the reality that is in front of your eyes. He learned that when a secure roof over one’s head, double the income, child support and social proof are involved, a woman will do whatever it takes to secure that. Whatever it takes. Thay’s the above mentioned hypergamy working in plain sight. And if this happened to me (and I’m lucky I discovered this website long before that happened), I would happily become a MGTOW man, because my trust in women would forever be shattered. I’m also curious how you would write that last comment if we flipped the sexes, and changed the sex tape to finding $20 mil in cash in a hidden safe. Interesting, right?
But what’s missing from all of this is your assessment of the woman’s actions. Nowhere do I see a single word of blame, no word of shock, disgust or shame, nor anything in your comment holding her accountable for her actions. It may be my interpretation, but from the way you’re framing your comment, it’s as if you’re holding HIM accountable for being duped. This isn’t just a knock to his ego and masculinity; it’s systematic, pre-planned fraud and deprivation and a theft of his resources and you’ve not even mentioned that glaring fact.
Significant, wouldn’t you say?
March 3rd, 2014 at 2:31 pm
Lets look at the clues shall we?
She didn’t decide that it wasn’t for her at all, however the mask she wore for ‘the man she loved enough to marry’ required that she pretend that she wasn’t interested in anything other than perfunctory sex at all, lest he cotton on to the damaged goods he was invested in.
March 16th, 2014 at 10:02 pm
[…] common understanding most men had with regards to the woman in my Saving the Best post, and how her rationalizations of her past and present sexual behaviors affected the man […]
March 28th, 2014 at 12:07 am
[…] What’s it really about is the guy not getting laid for years, dropping dollars, diamonds, and dovey-affection on a girl, and finding out she fantasizes about her gang-bangs. http://therationalmale.com/2013/12/03/saving-the-best/ […]
April 3rd, 2014 at 12:01 am
[…] thinks “but I wish I had some more excitement …” and then Mr. Big comes along. Or he finds out she fucked the whole O-line of the football team in college and there is video. Or you could just run on into how she gets really fat, has a terrible attitude, and treats him […]
April 18th, 2014 at 12:03 am
[…] finds out. Better that you sitdown and confess your sins, than for him to find out in other…distasteful ways. And do it BEFORE anything jumps off, too. The longer you too have been intimate and the longer he […]
April 21st, 2014 at 8:02 am
[…] want to experience insane mind blowing gang banging sex. Rollo Tomassi’s most excellent article, Saving the Best outlines a real life example in great detail. She might be a prude in marriage to prove to her […]
April 21st, 2014 at 2:11 pm
So I guess every man that fucked his way through college but never told his wife is being “deceitful”? The chick did something “IN COLLEGE”. How the fuck is that “deceitful”? What am I supposed to list every sexual escapade to my future wife just so she knows what kind of person I am sexually? Or that anything I did in college should reflect what kind of mate I will make as far as marriage is concerned? You guys all sound like butt hurt guys that got screwed over by a chick so now you overcompensate by looking at every female as “evil” and “deceitful”.
@Mikedtzo, hiding your “CURRENT” finances from your wife is completely different from something you did in “COLLEGE”. The fact that you would even use that as an example shows how much your trying to reach to prove your point. The chick fucked dudes in college (shockers). Everyone fucks everyone in college. It was probably something she wasn’t proud of (probably sexually repressed and that was her way to get it out and now she feels all ashamed about it). What does any of that have to do with her husband. Nothing. He’s using that as a smokescreen to take away from the fact that HE is probably lacking. I mean are we seriously trying to criminalize this women’s credibility as a wife by using something she did in college before she even met him?! Society OFTEN shames women for embracing their inner slut so I’m not surprised she found it easier to do it with strangers who she probably never saw after that, than with her own husband. She was probably raised with that old school notion that a “good wife” doesn’t act like a slut. Some women are raised with that crap in their heads, not their fault blame parents and religion.
And dude I’m sorry, if you really want to “man up” don’t be act like a bitch the first time you see a sex tape. I mean the whole “your not attracted to me I know it”. Shit if I were a chick I wouldn’t be attracted to you if that’s how your going to respond. The whole “omg, I’m not attractive to you that’s why you don’t fuck me like those other guys…”. Please! A woman will fuck a guy that looks like a mule if he mans the hell up and makes her feel that its ok to embrace her inner slut around him. Obviously he didn’t do a good job a that. And why should I feel bad for him. He got something out of the marriage as well, like only women benefit from having a child in a marriage….smh. All you guys sound like butt hurt men that let yourselves get played by a woman so now you find anything to bash them.
April 21st, 2014 at 2:16 pm
“So I guess every man that fucked his way through college but never told his wife is being “deceitful”?”
Yes. Even moreso if he refuses to have sex with wife because “he’s not like that”
April 22nd, 2014 at 5:39 pm
1st. Fuck her. Accept her offer. Tie her up. Fuck her wantonly on and on until your dick is sore. Make sure to tape it too. Make her gargle your cum. Leave her there tied and let your cock rest. Then fuck some more. 2nd. Get a DNA test on your daughter. 3rd. No matter the result, divorce is obligatory.
June 13th, 2014 at 2:30 am
In my view PUA theory is missing the mark here…
(I love PUA theory)
If the original post/subject is even real, this female was ostensibly sexually abused as a child, and went on to seek a beta male as a father figure/provider. She was acting out, finding her “home” within the trauma source via illicit sexual experiences that mimic what she has already experienced, she goes on rather predictably hurt again and again, in various extremes avoiding the original stressor through being a frigid prude or extreme “dirty fucking”, both are intertwined within this understandably and disturbed dialectic.
I challenge anyone who reads these words to find a stripper without sexual abuse within her past or huge daddy/male issues… She goes back to the trauma source.The somewhat rare fucked up holy-roller prudish chick does the same, a tell is if she didn’t conform to that up-bringing from her up-bringing, 1 out of 1.5 is damaged goods my friend… The conditioned reflex is a suffering, conform as a slave or rebel as a slave. They no not what they do.
Women and Men have somewhat of a antithetical sex-drive:
The male homosexual has nearly 100 sexual partners[1] within his lifetime, he likes guys, and any of those guys will love to bang at the drop of a hat. This is what it would be like if females had a sex drive of a man if they were driven inside like a man. They don’t bro, compare the average gay man’s 100 sexual partners within his life to the average straight man’s 4-10 per lifetime…
Big Picture: Sperm and Ovum. Nature illustrates this within the microcosm of reproduction.
Sperm are actively looking to break though the Ovum’s cell wall and various protein shields, the ovum is prearranged to let only one in.
[1]http://factsaboutyouth.com/posts/promiscuity/
June 13th, 2014 at 2:34 am
* They know not what they do ^
June 18th, 2014 at 7:27 pm
[…] ambitiousness and opinionatedness and you’ll be considered “sexier” and get her Best Sex she’s been saving just for a guy like […]
June 27th, 2014 at 8:16 pm
I want to know about the girl in the picture with about 100 guys on her wall
July 19th, 2014 at 7:08 pm
[…] with a few dudes. That will be somebody else’s fucking headache like this guy right here, and this poor heartbroken son of a bitch right here . Get some pussy and keep it moving. The genie is out of the bottle now. There is nothing you as a […]
August 7th, 2014 at 10:23 pm
[…] Compare the open hypergamy model with the guy from Saving the Best: […]
August 10th, 2014 at 8:19 pm
For some reason your post comes off as hamsterizing, Paula. It’s like your trying to sweep the all too common beta bucks/alpha fux dynamic there.
Face it, that guy is getting someone who never would’ve gotten the time of day from her during her chasing-so-called-alpha’s/bad boys/hotties-who-are-outside-of-her-league.
You know, men can actually be forced to pay child support for her alpha-fux-trophy (also known as another man’s child) till that bastard child is 18.
Talk about a reverse cuckold! That might not sound too nice and insensitive to some baby’s Daddy’s momma there. But in reality it is the male’s feelings that are being ignored.
Everyone talks as if the world revolves around single mom’s. As one comedian said “it’s a joke that these single women call it ‘the hardest job on Earth.’ No one tells you your idiot for thinking that only because they want to fuck you!”
Luckily I never dated single moms too often except for one year. And that was alright. I wasn’t ask to nor would’ve I considered being some financial surrogate daddy.
Face it. When you women hit the wall–it humbles you aging ladies and shuts you the fuck up and gets you off of your self-appointed pedestal.
That’s why I often dates some older women in my 20s incidentally. Come to think of it.
Now I am 40 and appreciate Rollo’s awesome Rationale Male blog.
August 13th, 2014 at 8:03 am
I don’t understand why this guy is getting so much sympathy. So he marries this woman knowing she is not madly in lust with him, then throws a fit because she did some wild group sex when she was in college. Women, actually people, evolve sexually. To expect a married mother to have the same kinks than a young girl trying things out is not a safe bet, to say the least. How is that a betrayal or a “slam to his masculinity”? Have you considered the possibility that he didn’t get the awesome sex because he’s a shitty lover?
And how about this, you want to have the best sex she can offer, then MAKE IT HAPPEN! She can’t just decide to get crazy horny, you gotta seduce her. Sorry guys, but that’s the way it is. The good news is, it’s not too difficult. Learn how to kiss, make her horny, keep her horny, don’t let her come. After about a half hour of this, I guarantee she’d be up for pretty much anything. If you are not willing to put in some effort and empathy into finding what makes your lady tick, then you might end up a resentful, misogynistic twat who blames others for his own choices and calls the mother of his child a whore. Not a good look.
August 13th, 2014 at 8:10 am
Seriously? – shut up and learn
September 10th, 2014 at 12:18 am
[…] Saving the Best […]
September 25th, 2014 at 2:10 am
I was still in the depression phase of unplugging when I first read this and it really upset me because I could see my self in the place of this guy. Now I am more convinced than ever that what this slut really wants is her husband to man up and use her like a piece of sizzling steak. That is what ALL women want.
Rollo used this as a way to illustrate that desire cannot be negotiated and this is true. However, desire can be- and in a real sense ALWAYS is- commanded. She did not have the desire for him because he was a Beta pussy and did not throw her down and fuck her hard before demanding the blowjob. He may not be able to negotiate terms but he can demand her surrender and manning up like that would spark the desire.
November 22nd, 2014 at 4:10 pm
Just for everybody’s information:
The OP Reddit poster quoted in the article, posted followups on what happened when he “ultimatumed” his wife. You can read em here . . .
http://www.reddit.com/r/sex/comments/1sp39a/update_iifound_my_wifes_old_sex_tape_now_our/
http://www.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice/comments/1tmquf/wife33f_and_i36m_are_having_a_threesome_for/
Just goes to show the importance of never accepting anything but the best from your partner. And the man being absolutley, utterly willing to end it all if his standards aren’t met.
November 22nd, 2014 at 6:40 pm
> It seriously annoys me that we’re all so accustomed to thinking this kind of relationship dynamic is supposed to be normal.
Look, men work on the basis of a “sacrifice/effort will be rewarded” mental model. It works well for other areas of our lives like work or school.
The reality is that with women ‘being’ the right type X is rewarded. It’s like being a cover model. You put no effort in and you land on the cover based on being facially attractive. That’s it.
The RP man does not give women gifts to earn sex. He spends the money and time effort on himself to become the prize. You don’t give her gold coins. You gild yourself so she wants to worship your golden statue and wants to bask in the glow of your status.
You don’t buy her a car. You buy yourself a twice as spectacular car. You don’t buy her clothes. You buy yourself designer clothes so that she can brag with you when you go out. You don’t help her to become the cheerleader captain. You spend time to become the football captain, so the cheerleader will worship you.
December 1st, 2014 at 11:21 pm
[…] for the entirety of his marriage, believing that the privilege of being married means he’s getting his wife’s sexual best when it matters most. It kind of puts things into a lifetime perspective when you consider that […]
December 19th, 2014 at 1:13 pm
I’m not sure anyone is still following these comments, but I have a question about an alternate explanation.
I find most people aren’t as intentionally manipulative as it often appears when a situation is being reviewed after the fact.
What if the wife actually was sexually attracted to her husband as much as she was to the other men, perhaps even more so. Whit if, it was simply a matter of placing greater importance on having a relationship than on having the mind blowing sex. She wants both, but if she can only have one, she wants the security of a relationship.
Perhaps that’s why she engaged in the group orgy, she was hoping a relationship with another of the participants would be a result. If that was her though (after all aren’t girls taught that sex is what men want?) she would have likely been brutally slapped in the face with reality. Whores don’t get quality relationships. Unless she’s stupid, at some point the lesson will stick. Afterwards she meets her husband.
He’s everything she ever wanted. She wants him forever. Rule number one in life –whores don’t get the relationship. Rule number one in their relationship–she is not a whore. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t want to do these things, or won’t do them, it means she will do nothing, say nothing and offer nothing that might make her look like a whore. If on the other hand he takes it, and it’s all on him, so be it. She”ll likely disavow enjoying it afterwards, not because she didn’t enjoy it, but because she cannot be a whore, because they don’t get the relationship.
The husband, being the properly socialized beta, cannot conceive that he should ever just take anything from her sexually. No, treat her well and she’ll be happy to do what ever you want once she knows you love her. If it’s not working, treat her better. She’s withholding sex and as a result is treated better than she has ever been treated before. He has just unintentionally reinforced her plan of never be the whore, even if she wants to be, now she’s confronted with another “life truth” men treat whores like shit and virgins like gold. Her purity is what her husband values most as evidenced by how well he treats her. She could legitimately believe that as a good wife, she must hold to this, irregardless of her desires. Of course, he’s asking for more and kinkier sex, sure, but watch his actions not his words. He’s asking for her to be a whore and rewarding her for not being one. Nd you know what, if she ever did give in, he’s immediately quit trying so hard. At some point his unending beta-ness might actually have allowed her sexual desire to wither and (almost) die. Unending conflict follows.
I’m not saying this is what happened here, but I can see this being the case in many instances. And when it is, it’s the man who is primarily at fault, not the woman. It’s his fault because he refused to be honest about his happiness and what he wanted, he refused to take responsibility for creating his happiness and his situation, and he refused to see women for what they really are instead of his nice, safe fantasy.
January 18th, 2015 at 11:08 pm
[…] Saving the Best continues to be a seminal post on Rational Male, not the least of which because so many men could relate to the experience. However, this may not have been the experience of discovering a sexual past his wife had no intention of ever allowing him to share with her , but rather the expectation men have of receiving a woman’s ‘sexual best’ in marriage. That may not amount to the sexual experimentation she had in her Party Years, but for a Beta who believes his patience and virtue are to be rewarded at long last it is an expectation of enjoying the same or better sexual urgency his wife-to-be shared with her past lovers. […]
February 13th, 2015 at 2:30 am
Wow, all over a bit of anal..? Why would you even marry a prude in the first place?
March 24th, 2015 at 7:54 pm
[…] beginning to effect on contemporary western(ized) culture. In that exploration I published Saving the Best (another TRP link), a story which revolved around the increasingly more common post-Epiphany Phase […]
April 9th, 2015 at 9:47 am
The irony is the man says something similar to “I shouldnt have been drinking” and “I felt wrong for confronting her” and feels bad about how he handled it.
Truth is he ran solid dread game exactly how you should do it. He handled her treachery exactly how a man should. Dread, legal advice, divorce.
April 9th, 2015 at 10:17 am
I have never been able to understand how men have been able to be with women that aren’t their personal slut. It’s always been a bullet point on my list of requirements for a relationship, though that is thanks to a rather crass uncle having ‘the talk’ with me as a youngster.
April 9th, 2015 at 10:24 am
This is heartbreaking.
When I read things such as this, I sadly understand why my ex husband ( who is still best friends with me – we broke up over mental health issues, which I could not fix for him ) came about his ( to me ) strange paranoias, and also the man Im dating ( second one ever, so pretty green here )- who two decades ago dated promiscuous women and is also very paranoid.
Id no idea about such women, as I lived with severe disability for most of my life.
Now that I am better able to process data, I can say coming to all of this as a sort of tabula rata is very shocking. I was raised by a man,have men friends, get along best with men. I was never a feminist ( trying more to stay alive, talk about understanding the dark depths of human nature ), seeing yas disability means youve bigger issues than catcalling.
Why would anyone live like this? Hiding their real feelings?
It just confounds me.
But at least now I understand why men are afraid. As theyve been my consolation of good hearted support, I am happy in some small way- that being a total outcast from society comes to mean I was never twisted by it. So will always uphold my view that truth should be. So I can hopefully be a small support to anyone male somehow.
Im sorry this is so long. I am not good at somethings yet, and needed POV established to show where I was coming from.
Im so sorry there are so many messed up women. So many good hearted men- and for what? I understand alienation- and I send to everyone from my heart my sympathy. Be strong. Thru time, men created ways of communicating just to save some knowledge to others, in the future- to bear up. Have courage. Be that man who learnt, and worked to change what he willed. If he could.
It is on the foundation of other men’s trial and work, that civilisation is continued. To be awake is have achieved a great deed. Many never do.
It was in words of long dead men, that I had my only solace and love. Because of their great hearts, a miracle of words survived. I would be dead if not for this.
Be those next great men. There are enough words.
But there always needs to be men, of valour and bravery. Courage and gentleness, fierce as they would be.
The world depends on it.
It is nothing, without men.
April 9th, 2015 at 12:28 pm
You should read this next:
http://therationalmale.com/2015/03/24/betas-in-waiting/
April 9th, 2015 at 3:24 pm
It seems to me there are a bunch of issues here. The first is the female strategy of having sex with exciting men while settling down with nerds. I don’t use the terms Alpha and Beta here because over the years I’ve seen how the studs rarely are actually Alphas. They’re bad boys and those are fun until they hit their mid-30s and then they turn blown-out and creepy.
The big issue that’s hiding here is that anonymity in a society permits this behavior. Living in a big city, where no one knows you, your actions are essentially anonymous. This allows people to act like whores and assume there will be no consequences. For both of the people in this story, there were consequences: he got a whore, she got a wimp.
Another question that is missing here is that of quality of women. Ultimately, two lower-status people found each other. No woman with a functional brain is going to behave the way she did. It is not natural behavior for someone of any higher intelligence or who is not an abuse victim (people from unstable and abusive families tend to seek degradation). She knew she had a few good years of being cute when she was young, so she milked it, and then settled down with a nerd. It’s no wonder the sex was bad; her intent toward him was entirely different than it was toward the studs railing her when she was younger. That was fun, and gave her bragging rights among her fellow witless young females. When she got older, she wanted marriage and kids for a different form of bragging right.
I think Red Pill strategies make sense if you’re trying to find a way to bang chicks. But keep in mind that you have them removed yourself from the market for quality women, much as this woman removed herself from the market for a quality man. Much of his story is pathetic. He needed to have a few drinks just to talk to her? That sounds like a weepy Hollywood manchild, not a man. Then he runs away and doesn’t make a clean break, signaling indecisiveness. At that point, the realistic end is for him to run on home with a Feeldoe and let her peg him.
Traditional living — chastity, honor and pride — allows both men and women to avoid degrading themselves and have happy marriages. In this story however, an insincere man met an insincere woman and they have been manipulating each other ever since. It’s hard to have any sympathy for anyone in the story, least of all the children, who are the product of bad DNA on both sides.