To start off today’s topic I thought I’d repost a Red Pill reddit thread I received a link-back to last week. Rather than give you my own summary of this guy’s situation, I felt the impact would be more significant by posting it in its entirety; and also because I don’t believe the guy really got a fair hearing on his original post.
I posted this earlier on another subreddit but it ended up getting removed because of fighting in the comments. I’ll sum up what happened thus far. I met my wife 7 years ago, she was extremely picky when it came to sex. She told me she only has been with 1 other guy before. She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but I really liked her and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, it never got any better but I learned to get over it. Well I ended up finding an old video from her college days of her engaging in group sex with 6 other people 5 guys 1 girl. In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it. I ended up feeling really sad. I can understand certain stuff people don’t want to do, but it wasn’t the fact she didn’t want to do them. She didn’t want to do them with me but every other guy she was their whore. I was angry hurt and I ended up saying some stupid shit to my wife.
I asked her if she could drop our daughter off at her sister’s house because I wanted to talk to her. She asked why, I told her we’d discuss after she came back.
I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.
Me: Is there anything about your past you have been hiding about me?
Her: Why are we talking about this?
Me: I just want to know were you in any type of porn or anything like that?
Her: are you taking drugs?
Me: I found your video from college with the other guys. I don’t know who you are anymore and I feel ill being around you.
She starts crying.
Me: Do you have anything to say?
She continues to cry. This was pointless I go to grab my keys to leave. And she tries to stop me.
Me: If you don’t want me to leave then I need you to be 100% honest with me, and tell me why you lied to me for all these years.
She: I didn’t want you to think I was a slut
Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me, I would have loved to have done those wild things with you. Look I get it I don’t turn you on like those other guys do. You liked sucking their dicks but not mine.
She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.
Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.
She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.
Me: I don’t want you to do it because you feel like you have to. I want someone that actually desires me.
She: I can change I promise don’t ruin our marriage over this we can work things out. We can go to marriage counseling seriously talk to me.
Me: Marriage counseling won’t change how you feel about me. Look I will try marriage counseling but I want a trial separation for now.
She: Please don’t do this. Don’t throw away our marriage for what I did in college please.
Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.
She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you
Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.
She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change.
Me: I am not divorcing you but I want a trial separation for now, and I want to see how things go, right now I feel sick looking at you.
I ended up leaving my wife kept trying to stop me. She kept on begging saying I could do anything I wanted with her, it was truly pathetic and I lost all respect for my wife the way she was trying to manipulate me with sex.
I am staying at a motel right now; I have been getting constant calls from my wife. She has been asking me where I am, if I tell her than she is going to confront me and I don’t feel like I am ready for that. I feel so fucking drained. I feel bad saying those things to my wife but I don’t know what else to do I am so fucking hurt over this.
As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously, wouldn’t care but the fact she did all those things for other guys but doesn’t do them for me hurts me the deepest.
I don’t see how this marriage can be recovered. I can’t change her attraction to me. My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.
Please tell me what exactly I can do, my confidence as a man has been destroyed. Before I found out about this, I tried to get my wife to open up sexually but she completely shot it down. I really believe she isn’t attracted to me in the way she was to those other guys. That’s why she felt completely fine being “their whore” but won’t give me a blow job. I want a woman that looks at me lustfully, not that has sex with me to fulfill “wifey duties.”
I don’t feel entitled to other types of sex with my wife. I want her to want to do them. Now even if she does do them it will be out of guilt, not out of desire. I don’t see how we can recover our marriage. I feel really shitty that I won’t be able to seem my daughter as much, especially during her younger years.
I have already made some calls to reroute my paychecks and get my finances in order if we do go for a divorce. My brother works at a big law firm, I am thinking about contacting him to at least see what I should be doing now. Thing is once I call him it becomes the point of no return, if I tell my family members than their image of my wife becomes destroyed. Also I’d have to check because right now she is dependent on me for health insurance, and I don’t want her to be deprived of that if we do divorce, because she has been having health issues. I don’t want to ruin anything but I can’t see how things would ever be okay. If you don’t have any advice for me and are just going to be judgmental please don’t waste your time commenting. I know I said some hurtful things in there but you don’t know the level of hurt I am feeling right now. I have apologized to my wife since then, but I don’t see how our relationship can be recovered.
Edit – I want to make things work, between me and my wife. I understand she doesn’t want to do certain sex acts. I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage. That way we can still be together as a family and we both can have the fulfilling sex lives we want.
There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.
As our culture becomes more technologically adept, electronic records – whether they’re ‘self-shots’, incriminating GNO pics uploaded to various forms of social media, male-stripper party videos, or amateur / semi-pro pornography – will have an increasingly greater role in filling the pieces of the puzzle that constitutes a woman’s relational and sexual past. The real problem will cease to be doing any actual detective work, and more about what a (Beta) man will allow himself to believe about his ‘special snowflake’ in contrast to the gestalt knowledge of women’s behaviors on whole.
There was a recent article posted on Return of Kings by Emmanuel Goldstein detailing the Game necessity of presuming all women are sluts. In light of stories like this it’s hard not to see the pragmatism in that, but at least when you are single, Game-aware and spinning plates you have the luxury and (should have) the foresight to know that even the Good Girls ‘Do’ have the inclination to go feral with the hot Alpha in the foam cannon party in Cancun on Spring Break when she’s in the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle.
Predictably, I’m sure the “ooh, ooh men do it too!” wing of the critics gallery will be the first to cry foul, as they ever have, about my drawing attention to the feral dynamics of sexual side of feminine hypergamy. And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.
The Best of Her
The author of this reddit thread is feeling the sharp end of that Hypergamic equation. While I’m sure there will be every effort made to paint this man’s wife as some fucked up, emotionally damaged, and conveniently, sexually abused victim (we don’t know this, but that was the default association in the comments of his original thread), the operative I’m driving at here isn’t about her individualized experiences, but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism.
Prior to the advent of technologies that could evidentially prove women’s sexual exploits (often proudly so now) the more visceral aspects of a woman’s sexuality, and the inconvenient hindbrain/hormonal prompts that motivate them, could be kept secret well enough to deceive a man with provisioning potential to commit to the long term security the other half of her Hypergamy demands. As the technology to record this becomes more ubiquitous, more permanent and fluid in its use, as men become more interconnected by it, and as women enjoy more self-affirmation from it, rationalizing her past indiscretions becomes more of an imperative.
Men saturated and conditioned over the better half of their lifetime by the feminine imperative to be the convenient cuckolds to women’s Hypergamy – men like the author of this confession – have an ego-invested interest in presuming the woman they pair with will be “giving him the best of herself” once his ship comes in and all of his patience and equalist beliefs finally pay off.
Only, men like this discover too late, usually well after they realize their commitment has hamstrung their SMV peak potential, that not only have they been a retroactive cuckold (sometimes even moralistically proud to be so), but they’ve been socially conditioned to be one, by their mothers, their emasculated fathers, their sisters, female friends, teachers and the whole of the feminine imperative’s effort for most of their lives.
One of the reasons I, and most of the manosphere, receive so much scorn from plugged-in, feminine primary society is that we risk to expose this process. This author’s story is the inconvenient truth of a pluralistic feminine sexual strategy. Women’s capacity to cash out of the SMP, to raise children, to create a semblance of a family life so conflicted with her single life, on what she thinks should be her terms, all rides on keeping men with a long term provisioning potential (greater Betas) ignorant of their pre-cuckolding and the conditioning that took so long to convince them would be their responsibility.
I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.
The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Once the belief that he’s getting the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp focus.
I Want You to Want Me
Naturally, once a woman’s true sexual capacity is revealed after the establishment of her normalized, married sexuality, her first impetus is to preserve the provisioning she enjoyed while ‘her secret’ was working for her.
Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.
She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.
[…] She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change
What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.
He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.
December 9th, 2013 at 7:45 pm
LT is a walking contradiction. Loves her Alpha when it’s all about her, but hates the Alpha when it’s not.
Why am I not surprised? You realize you only confirm any point I’ve ever made every time you comment, right?
December 9th, 2013 at 7:47 pm
LT, sure, tell women they should not worship high status.
It just turns out its all they care about.
December 9th, 2013 at 7:51 pm
Yohami,
“Rod” reminds me of “Tom” from old HUS days. “His” description of alpha sounds like a caricature coming from someone’s imagination
You want an alpha male response? I’ll give you an alpha male response.
Who writes this? Certainly not an alpha male.
“Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren’t.”
― Margaret Thatcher
December 9th, 2013 at 7:54 pm
Morpheus, Rudy does sound like Tommy.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:05 pm
Well for sure, Dr. J, but that goes back to our earlier conversation, and the content of Rollo’s article.
Relationships do NOT always have to be about sacrificing one need in order to get another met. It doesn’t disadvantage anyone in the relationship if one person has it all, provided the person they have married is also getting that kind of deal. But its impossible for anyone to get that benefit if they aren’t being honest about their wants, and expecting that they get met.
Wouldn’t you agree?
Betadad here never at one time in this article said he wanted a chaste wife, he did not state that. Not ever, at least not that we know of. He assumed it would change to suit his needs later. You are projecting the chastity value upon him in this instance, assuming that he wanted it without actually knowing for sure. He said it wouldn’t have mattered – what reason do we have to doubt him?
He had a responsibility to be genuine about what he wanted. He wasn’t. I go back to my original point about authenticity.
So if what he says in the article is true, if he wanted to have that kind of sex with his wife, if he just had been genuine about the kind of relationship he wanted with her and been willing to sacrifice the relationship for it, he might have wound up with a happy life, and she wouldn’t have felt the inclination to lie to protect herself.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:06 pm
No, dude, I’d rather see YOU GUYS being the leaders. I’m sure you’d make much more conscientious decisions than these alpha fucks that don’t care about anything but winning.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:09 pm
Point being, Yohami, our society worships the MOST SELFISH individuals.
How exactly do you think that is going to play out in the world??
December 9th, 2013 at 8:20 pm
LT,
People worship what they strive to become, the lives they wish they could live, etc. The people at the top are only mirrors of the people at the bottom, for good and bad.
Im working on it.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:20 pm
You misunderstand me entirely Rollo. There is nothing I like about alpha males. Nothing. There are many types of dominant males in the spectrum, you are limiting your choices to two, on the assumption that everyone wants to be alpha. Honestly, I pray to GOD that isn’t true, or this world really is going to the dogs.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:23 pm
YOHAMI, we are getting into the weeds now, so I will just say I appreciated your smart pushback. It is pointless to revisit why I thought a certain way about what I think you thought, particularly since it eventually boils down to a communication issue. Most of our disagreement is about the meaning of your statement:
… which is not terribly clear. I didn’t “strawman” it, I took a stab at interpreting it consistent with the original post.
I just wanted to emphasize the fallacy of these reports which presume some irreducible and incorrigible depravity in female nature owing to an extrapolated sample size from the most scandalous (and therefore newsworthy) instances. Very, very few women are going to make a college gangbang tape, with her face visible, then store it where people might find it, especially if it will ruin her marriage — though indeed a statistically irrelevant sample might.
Moreover, the story smells. Who took the video? How did she come into possession with it? Did the videographer make a copy for her? Did she ask him for it the next day? It was at least 7 years ago, the year the iPhone came to market and making video was more than just an afterthought.
Exactly how did he stumble on it? A truth teller would probably mention those details — since those details would have been as extraordinary as the fact of the video itself. He was snooping through her laptop? Was it the same laptop she uploaded the video to, or was she sure to transfer it in her various upgrades over the years?
Did he sit down to watch Tango & Cash and got surprised what DVD was in its box? Was it a memory stick or old school videotape? Did it fall out of a secret collection in the garage with “My College Gangbang” written in marker across the label? Maybe he found it on an amateur porn website. Unnecessary but consistent detail makes a story ring true in a way that is difficult to fabricate. He presents none of that but rather just skips to the sexy cuckolding part.
Be a TV detective and ask stupid basic questions; the improbabilities begin to present themselves.
Matt
December 9th, 2013 at 8:27 pm
LT,
Im pretty sure your conception of Alpha is pretty narrow, probably a mix of a narcissist and a douchebag. While these personalities can have Alpha, that’s not where the story ends nor where it starts. Alpha is the leader / man in charge / a voice who doesnt need to be externally validated to have weight, and I could go on – a bunch of stuff every man should strive
to.
So we’re not talking just the Mike from the Jersey Shore kind.
I’ll add that the women flocking around that douchebag type are also narcissists and douchebags themselves, or works in progress in that direction.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:28 pm
http://socialpathology.blogspot.ca/2010/03/gamma-man.html
December 9th, 2013 at 8:31 pm
Matthew,
Best christmas gift ever.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:35 pm
Ya I totally get that, in principle Yohami, but with hero-worship, fandom, attention and adulation heaped upon him for basically no reason, even the brightest star Alpha will become a douchebag narcissist eventually.
Gamma males… now thats where its at. Mmmm.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
That depends… On the the very valuable can “have it all”, and make it a fair trade. A guy who is not rich and handsome has to make some tradeoffs. He can have a beautiful wife, a super faithful one – or a mediocre-looking kinda-chaste one. He is not getting a supermodel as a dedicated love-slave.
The same for a woman who is not domestically-inclined and beautiful. Richard Gere in Pretty Woman is not coming in the limo. She’s going have to make some tradeoffs. Sex with the hot cad…marriage with the stable dad – or maybe just a long-term relationship with something in between.
That is either poorly worded – or a confused thought. If both people are getting “that kind of deal”, then they BOTH must “have it all”. They must be of very similar value.
Now I see… So, for example, if the woman who is worth “5” can get a man who is an “8” – because he asks for no more – then you think it is fair. After all, everyone is getting what they asked for. All stated needs are met. So, it is “equal”.
If we didn’t live in a world where people were intentionally misled and disempowered to make this happen, I would agree. The problem is, as I said above, both men and women are being brainwashed to not know their value and make bad trades. You’re right…I don’t know what this guy “wanted” – but neither does he. He was discouraged from figuring it out, and disempowered from believing he could ask for it anyway.
Thus, right now, people are being IMPAIRED. They are incapable of advocating for fair trade and defending their needs. It would be like thinking it was okay to buy a bike from a developmentally-disabled kid for a dollar – just because that was all he asked for it. YOU would still know it wasn’t fair. What is “fair” and what you can “get away with” is not the same thing.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:51 pm
All this jargon is giving me a headache… THAT is why I resort back to biology – because any layer above it begins to obfuscate the issue. So, let’s get rid of all the dads, cads, sluts, and sophistication for a minute…
From a biological standpoint, women want resources and good genetics from a man – to help her and her children survive. Thus, the man who has “survival power”, is more alpha. If he has less survival power…or squanders it…he is beta.
Men, however, want fidelity and good genetics from women – to help ensure he has healthy children, who are HIS. Thus, the woman who has more “reproductive power”, is more alpha. If she has less reproductive power…or squanders it…she is beta.
Everybody “wants” the alphas – because they are the highest value. Strong and intelligent men lead the world and build civilization (to help the species survive). Beautiful and caring women mother the next generation (to help the species reproduce).
The problem is…such value is NOT evenly distributed. So, we overlay a social system – that “redistributes” this power – to give those “born without”, a shot at an alpha too. That may be wonderful to that small group who benefit from this “handicapping”- but it wreaks the fairness of the trade across the board for everyone else.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:52 pm
LT
Thanks for posting that link from the sun.I giggle because T.O is supposedly one of the tougher “fields” for playas in da game.I have not hung out there in quite awhile I can’t offer an opinion to that.Any opinion from the huff post is taken with the same amount of salt the city of Toronto has stocked up for the winter.
I can see where the author of the article is coming from bless her heart.The facts of life are these any relationships where the wants,desires are met (fuck the needs) that is mutual and beneficial , then that is ideal.There is a line from the theme from ” summer place” .It is anywhere two people share their hopes ,dreams, loves.
Until I find a woman that has those qualities of the “elusive unicorn” , I will have maybe 1 not likely more than 4 beneficial friendships.No booty calls,no fuck buddies, I’m early gen x ..all that described in the article so gen y.
I’m guessing your saying the B cuk has some responsibility for having the expectations of change after marriage. I know honey it takes two to tango.My ex and mom had similar expectations that a partner will change.LT being the condition he was ..a Beta .. Lord willing he will survive the wake up slap and be Alpha.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:58 pm
@LT
How do you “outlaw” alphas? The people who write the laws are alpha. As are many of those who enforce it. It is just natural that the most assertive and aggressive rise to the top. Where nature is “unfair” to women is that the apex alpha sits at the top of the sexual food chain. An apex alpha is superior to the apex female, because he can extend his clock for MUCH, MUCH longer. His biological clock is practically nonexistent. He lives in his own world, answering only to himself. While the biological/evolutionary side of women will always prefer this man as a potential mate, the real-life complications of keeping his commitment forces women to look for other mates. Which of course brings us back to alpha fucks/beta bucks. That strategy is the only practical response for women.
December 9th, 2013 at 8:59 pm
Dr J, I have much to say in response, but I’m about to enter the gym so it’ll have to wait til later
December 9th, 2013 at 9:05 pm
Dr. J, good stuff.
December 9th, 2013 at 10:33 pm
@livingtree2013
His statement isn’t wrong, it’s just non-sequitur, it has nothing to do with what I was saying.
December 9th, 2013 at 10:36 pm
@ livingtree2013
As much as I have enjoyed this debate, I must redirect the bulk of my energies to other outlets. It sounds like you are a busy woman as well. Thus, I will save us the time of another potential go-around and offer some framework to make our future conversations more productive.
I believe I have made myself quite clear on what constitutes a fair trade. I have already explained and defended this foundation from many angles in this discussion. Before that, I have defended it for many years, in all manner of academic and popular crowds – against both logical argument and manipulation. Thus, trying to modify or challenge this foundation further will not be a productive use of our time.
This gives us two options for constructive conversation:
1) We agree on this general definition of fair and balanced trade as desirable. Then we can use that as powerful foundation for productive discussion around how the larger psychological and social structures contribute to or reduce that fairness (for both men and women). This would bring us closer to our shared goal of authentic, educated individuals, who are self-aware of their values and trade fairly.
2) We can decide that what you want, either intellectually or emotionally, differs from this general definition of fair and balanced. Then we could talk about potential reasons for artificially modifying the system to such imbalance. However, this might also diverge from the goal of self-awareness and authenticity (for either men or women), because it may require external manipulation to maintain such an arrangement.
I look forward to more authentic and productive conversations, no matter which of the above choices you select. If this “what is fair” debate continues further instead, however, it will not be a productive use of our valuable time – and, I fear, only support the suspicions of other commentors on here. Thus, a continued productive conversation on our part will also begin to dispel the manosphere notion of “all” women as selfish and rationalizing too. Thus, I hope we can move forward.
December 9th, 2013 at 10:52 pm
Dr,
Funny as hell. Agreed, society cant be pushed away from the biological drives while retaining its authenticity.
What they argue is that the biological drives are a thing of the past. Like they didnt have bodies, and like their bodies and chemicals were not the ones engaging in the conversation.
December 9th, 2013 at 11:13 pm
Nah I only said that biological need has been overridden by alpha status-needs, which are social. The biological are still there, just subverted in favor of more shallow ‘needs’.
All I mean by this is that I’m not sure we’re in full agreement which needs are biological and which are social. I don’t think we’ll come to resolution on it in this forum though.
Anyway… Yes, I agree Dr, this conversation is feeling spent. I do subscribe to #1, but I’m certain that all men do not have the same priorites. Nor do all women. That’s what makes life so darn interesting.
For example, my man would say he values intelligence, independence, and integrity in a woman higher than looks or chastity. Not that he doesnt value them, just that on the priority-list totem pole, he values my character is higher than he values his ego. Since I value those assets higher in myself as well, and since i would never ever want to be with a man who valued my looks over my character, we make a good match. See? We were honest with each other, and with ourselves, and it worked. Beautiful thing, that. Anyway, til we meet again!
December 9th, 2013 at 11:19 pm
@Dr.J
LT wants fried ice. Plain and simple. She wants everybody to happy but only on her ideological terms. If you deviate from being the program you are in need of reeducation so that you can be happy again and work to support the system. It’s a fantasy.
However even this kind of wishful thinking is rooted in her hindbrain. Women are supposed to demand more and more until they are shot down. That’s how they survived through the eons of time. So of course, feminist thinking which is rooted in achieving feminine paradise on earth would be the ultimate example in just wishing things come into existence and then having some guy make it happen.
She doesn’t want to hear your theory, she just wants you to validate her beliefs.
What I got from your theory is basically this. Teach all people what their actual value is and teach them to utilitize that value to it’s maximum. So when men and women know the score they will be less likely to either slut around to their detriment or beta orbit for men. This leads to a market place without all the suckers out in droves which leads to more practical matching because you have reduced the manginas from pumping up penny stocks and women will understand that slutting around will never lead to commitment from the men that pump and dump them.
However, Dr.J, that too is kind of abstract and mired into idealism. Women’s monkey brains want the alpha. They know in their hearts they are pump and dump material but it’s doesn’t matter. They want the alpha that bad, they will play sexual Russian roulette. Five minutes with an alpha is worth five years with a beta. That’s your problem Dr.J, you can’t get around this with better education and knowledge.
The only way around this is to take away their financial earning potential and shame them for not marrying under the age of 25. Women don’t want the beta ever. They never have and never has the beta been such a poor example as he is today due to feminization. The system was set up to make betas have some appeal. To be alpha enough. Women were probably never truly happy with their husbands, they did tolerate them because of culture and financial reasons.
When a financial collapse happens then you will see it turn back to this model. For an example of this see the flappers of the 20s turn back into housewives come the Great Depression.
December 9th, 2013 at 11:30 pm
We have a name for guys who like to repeat these lines to themselves – we call them blue pill Beta chumps. Properly conditioned, pre-whipped, feminine identifiers.
http://therationalmale.com/2011/09/04/identity-crisis-2/
December 9th, 2013 at 11:31 pm
@YOHAMI
This like much of the disconnect on the far left. Environmental damage is defined as anything that “man” does to “mother nature”, completely discounting the fact that humans are part of nature, just like any other mammal is. No one calls the termite mound “environmental destruction”. The earth itself doesn’t give a damn if we dump tons of Plutonium 239 all over the Grand Canyon, it will go on just fine, as well the life nearby.
There’s this horrendous desire in many to pretend we’re all bodiless entities who are somehow polluting and corrupting everything with our mere presence. Because of this wholly false perception of reality, they have no concept of any natural forces that exist organically between forms of life, even between humans themselves. Socially, the fanatical left looks at things this way as well. To them, no interactions between humans are “natural”, they’re all a matter of some artificial construct, some cultural structure that itself is “pollution” of their perception of what is “natural”.
Of course, it becomes quite clear when you talk to them, as it is painfully clear with LT, that they’ve never stopped to consider what the nature of humans actually is.
December 9th, 2013 at 11:34 pm
@livingtree2013
LOL…
If that is really true, then your man, sorry to say, is deceived into believing he wants something other than he truly wants, much as Dr J said.
December 9th, 2013 at 11:35 pm
More feminine argumentative style
December 9th, 2013 at 11:57 pm
I’ve told pretty girls I only want them for their intelligence and independence. It makes them completely out of base and powerless. And the independence touch frames the casual ride like it was dignifying.
But of course I know smarter fuglies, and more independent fuglies.
December 10th, 2013 at 12:09 am
@ FuriousFerret
.
It first must be “understood” with education and knowledge – to know what you really value and what is fair.
Then, it must dealt with on an individual level by amassing power and influence – to get what you want and ensure a fair trade by others.
After that, social structures need realignment, toward more fair and balanced dynamics – using the learned principles of fairness AND the cooperation of individuals with power and influence.
December 10th, 2013 at 12:40 am
“Yes, I agree Dr, this conversation is feeling spent. I do subscribe to #1, but I’m certain that….”
Right on cue, and too predictable.
December 10th, 2013 at 12:48 am
“Nothing to work out here” -yohami (first comment in what has become this venue’s most epic comment frenzy)
“What really worries me is all these people spending their lives online talking about the sexuality of others. Now THAT indicates so many deep seated psychological issues Im even scared to start counting them.” -yohami (somewhere north of 600 comments later)
This deserves a haiku
Pendulums, fulcrums
Within, between, around us
All efforts worthwhile
December 10th, 2013 at 1:18 am
@ D-Man & Yohami
Agreed…in haiku.
It’s fun to debate
But better to have real sex
Log off to get off
On that note…it is indeed time for bed. Goodnight!
December 10th, 2013 at 6:17 am
What an epic thread. I think the last page has blown a fuse in my head!
Thanks to all contributors.
December 10th, 2013 at 6:36 am
>She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.
Withholding sex in a relationship is the fastest way to make your man think less of you.
December 10th, 2013 at 6:43 am
It took me a while to figure out what you meant, Rollo. No, that relationship didn’t work out, partly due to differences in philosophy, and partly due to logistics; but, I still believe in purple pill: using red pill knowledge to make blue pill dreams come true. I assume the alphas LT objects to (I can’t keep up with all the comments) are the hardcore kind that may be “attractive” in some weird way, but some women have the good sense to stay away from.
Agree its an epic thread. Its great to see people talking so honestly. The reason I have always been so forthcoming is that it seems a lot of men and women need proxy brothers and sisters to help them understand the other side. I know I did.
December 10th, 2013 at 9:53 am
I give up. The “boys” (in LyingTree’s own words) seem to have difficulty walking away from a woman.
LyingTree is spinning plates. She’s the ultimate female PUA stringing boys along.
Just walk away.
December 10th, 2013 at 10:39 am
The guy is an idiot, first for putting up with her non-sense for years – he should have never married her in the first place, afterwards at every turn she treated him with complete and utter disrespect – he really needs to grow some balls and kick her to the curb and go out and f**k so many women that he doesn’t remember what this lousy b*tch looks like. And that has nothing to do with the video – that is just the nuke to really lay waste to everything he thought his life was based on. Not only is she a complete slut that has disrespected him for years – she is a liar as well, and the worst type.
There is nothing good about this woman – he needs to get rid of her, plain, simple, and to the point.
Now in my life I have participated in many of these types of things, from the girlfriend that makes the boyfriend wear a condom, while I ride her bareback – and more, much more. It doesn’t matter what her “status” is as far as “releationships” – she will fuck you if she thinks she can get away with it, and wants it enough. I have never met a woman that I couldn’t get if I wanted her enough. Heck, I’ve f**ked women the night before their wedding and sent them to the church pumped full of my cum, then sat in the back and watched some schlep marry the whore. It’s unbelievable to me that men put up with such crap, but they do. Hell, I’ve given women away. Yes, f**ked her the night before and “gave her away” in the ceremony since she didn’t know who her father was and asked. And yes, they had a child shortly after they married – don’t know if it was mine or not, but he’s the one supporting the little tyke so what do I care?
Assume every woman has been used more times than a port-a-potty and you’re probably in the ball park… If she isn’t in her early teens – she’s pretty much been used for everything you can imagine – and even that isn’t a good measuring stick as some start early… Now, I’m not saying these are “bad” women – they aren’t – they are just women – and that is the point. It’s normal for women of today to do this – so put what you think, and believe away – it’s not reality. Reality is she’s been used repeatedly and LOVED every second of it, and now is looking for a meal ticket – THAT is YOU – that is the reality of today.
His wife is a typical woman…. That is the message that all of the idiots out there need to grasp.
And he really needs to get DNA tests to see if the child is his (I doubt it) – always assume any children aren’t yours till you get a DNA test, and that is only if you don’t have an identical twin… In which case, it’s 50/50 at best that the child is actually yours even if the DNA test shows the same DNA… That is what you are getting for your money if you marry…
Are you beginning to grasp the situation??? This is why I use, enjoy, and love women for what they do for me. But I don’t trust them anymore than I would trust a snake. Well, that isn’t really true – I trust them to do what is best for them. So if she’s married, and gets knocked up by me, she’ll make hubby pay and try to pass of the kid as his. That I “trust” them to do since NO woman wants to be KNOWN to be a slut – even if they are.
December 10th, 2013 at 10:45 am
@Sao Feng
There is great value in explaining how the world works to idiots. At the very least, you hear yourself speak about what you yourself believe. Hearing yourself repeat basic truths and in-so-doing re-examine your own thoughts on the matter only comes at the expense of morons, and that is a small price to pay for such a valuable exercise.
December 10th, 2013 at 11:16 am
This is the way it really is, it’s more common than most men think. It has become the norm and not the exception. I know at least half a dozen men that have insanely similar stories. I can put them all in a room together and they would swear that they had all married the same woman! The stories and experiences of these men mirror each other too closely to be mere coincidence. It has become the trademark of the liberated woman and her feminine agenda, no one is immune and it’s a vicious circle.
You can do better though. How so? Seriously, don’t get married. No amount of Red Pills will make some whores capacity for sexual depravity look any more appealing when you stand together at the altar. The regret you will feel after taking the plunge with this creature will be the unwanted gift that keeps on giving year after year, all predicated on the belief that you couldn’t do any better than her. Throw some children and debt into the mix and you have surrendered all your rights as a human being in America. You’re canon fodder.
Women who have something to hide will make it a priority in their life to do so, it’s their duty to maintain their integrity at all costs, especially when it is a deliberate facade. They enlist those who can contribute to the deception as well. They distance themselves from the truth and the acts they committed, the rationalization hamster now in overdrive convinces them it never even happened! They take on the persona of the “good girl”, and in that moment they too have become yet another victim of their own delusional self deception. Ironically, as if on cue the damning evidence is soon to reveal itself.
It seems to be more profound a discovery when it is during the high school / college years. That girl, the one who is sexually promiscuous at such a degree at that time / age in her life that is her true essence. She can fake it till she makes it but on the inside she is still that ugly little troll hiding under the bridge, waiting, biding her time. Just wait and you will see it, bubbling up to the surface it’s only ever a matter of time. There is nothing that is hidden that won’t be revealed someday.
The truth is not pretty, it rarely ever is, nor is it easy but it can set you free. Once you know the truth no matter how vile you can be set free in the sense to make the decision to move forward. To not be duped again, to know the enemy and how they operate and realize that far too many times the enemy is also ourselves. How we think, what we have been conditioned to believe, the societal influences, etc. etc. ad nauseam.
I can’t speak for the women of other countries but the women of America are lost and they aren’t coming back. The absolute destruction of women was the realized fruits of feminism.
Thank you Rollo for telling me the truth, for setting me free and being a brother in the trenches of a war waged against all things masculine.
December 10th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
The scary thing is…there are Men out there today, married, and they have no idea about any of this. And then there are Men like me, that married with their eyes closed and their fingers in their eyes muttering “She’s not like that, she’s not like that, she’s not like that” — because we fell in love. And it was before all this great knowledge was out there – and we bought in the BIG lie.
That lie dies hard and the conditioned response to it. I fight it every day – for me the Red Pill is not a one time inoculation, it’s a daily vitamin.
December 10th, 2013 at 2:00 pm
This sounds like a terrible situation, but I think it can be saved.
– Separate for a while, month or so
– Come back
– Run Asshole game on her, even being “borderline” abusive (no hitting of course duh)
– Run “Dread” game on her, buy new cloths, try to look younger, disappear for a few hours once in a while with vague excuses for your absence
– Fuck the shit out of her like a wild animal when you do have sex
This should up her attraction for you and she will give you those acts “for real” If you can’t tell the difference between “for real” and he “doing her duties” then the problem is YOU!
If it dose not work out, stay together anyway and tough it out until the kid is in college. From what you said, that’s only a few more years anyway, right? At worse it give you time to properly prepare and save some money.
Hope I helped! Divorce is terrible and soul killing (I’ve been through it) and I pray it can be avoided
December 10th, 2013 at 10:39 pm
The last 3 women I’ve dated had cheating in their pasts. Sad statistics. One was a the quintessential super-hottie that is a train wreck but hard to let go of. The other 2 rationalized their plights…yes gents, don’t forget the hamster.
One woman in her 20’s gave me booty calls for awhile and later I found had a fiance’e whom she confessed cheated on with another guy while our relationship was on it’s way out.
One woman in her 30’s married very young and ended up hating her husband who she didn’t have anything in common with and would go to her lover’s house while he was away on business.
Instead of condemning or running from these women I wanted to understand the “why” to their choices. I’ve been interested in many areas of psych and also female infidelity.
After reading many comments it seems there is the typical fix-it mentality of x+y=z and now she’s back!! Not likely. I’ve seen this in my past relationships and the same scenario happen to other men. The most powerful attribute about women I’ve learned thus far in life is their emotional-logic.
Most women who cheat or leave their partners have other men in the shadows they jump to. The three women I speak of all had lovers their partners knew nothing about. Two women at work I knew also cheated on their husbands and never got caught either. All had similar reasoning.
Women tend to emotionally breakup from men until their feelings have resolved the relationship. These women give virtually no signs their partner can read. Hence the whole “It came out of no where!” men shout when she asks for a divorce or withdrawals from the relationship. Few I’ve met felt bad about it. Nothing personal, business/nature. The men in my case couldn’t Game their women and the women felt unappreciated and then rationalized their behavior.
My point: Women aren’t dumb; they are rather tactful when they act like this. The woman who lied about the tape most likely has slept with other men her husband doesn’t know about. Yes, get a DNA test for your child. No, don’t stay you can’t change her mind or her feelings. Any attempt will end in contempt when she feels pressured to conform to something she doesn’t want. She will merely play the role “I’m sorry” until she finds another man to provision for her or until her daughter is in her teens and then…poof! She’s gone.
Lastly, I was always skeptical of Game until the 30’s woman told me why she left her husband. She emotionally resolved herself from the relationship after going through counseling multiple times alone while her husband objected. Once she felt she gave it her all to salvage the relationship, she moved on and found another man while initiating divorce at the same time. I remember her saying “…when I told my husband I kissed another man he just stood their. What a loser. He didn’t even fight for me!” I pointed out how he could have been shocked by her remark. I quickly pointed out (thx Game) that by “kiss” she meant “fucked” another guy. She smiled and nodded–I “got it”. Her damn-near exact response was found in the article I’m linking to below. I haven’t read this for 2+ years until today. The story is theoretical but explained what I saw so perfectly those years ago. The hamster lives.
http://marriedmansexlife.com/2012/12/what-it-means-when-she-tells-you-she-kissed-another-man/
December 10th, 2013 at 11:18 pm
@livingtree2013
“every man” wants a slut for his very own” he means slut while in bed, also you should know when a woman behave as an slut is because she is really attracted to you, therefore she wont be fucking around with every guy she meets. Also she will act as an slut if she finds that you are a person that dont give a shit and wont judge her.
December 10th, 2013 at 11:40 pm
@livingtree2013
“every man wants a slut for his very own” he means slut while in bed, also you should know when a woman behave as an slut is because she is really attracted to you, therefore she wont be fucking around with every guy she meets. Also she will act as an slut if she finds that you are a person that dont give a shit and wont judge her.
December 11th, 2013 at 1:01 am
[…] is conditioning you to think: “I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a […]
December 11th, 2013 at 1:55 am
I remember her saying “…when I told my husband I kissed another man he just stood their. What a loser. He didn’t even fight for me!”
This gets to the crux of something.
I’ll fight for you honey, but I won’t fight YOU for you.
December 11th, 2013 at 7:43 am
@Rollo…
So Question: Why do some Men find it to hard to leave? Knowing what they know about their woman, possibly knowing what they know from reading here – it has to go beyond Oneitus – or is it just that. Possibly a follow on post. I’m curious why it seems that a woman can move on and a man has a harder time.
December 11th, 2013 at 11:29 am
Hey Tin Man, I swore I was done with this thread, but its so darn fascinating!!
Anyway, I have a lead for you in answer to your question. I just read an article on Huffpost this weekend talking about a study on the fear of being alone.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/fear-of-being-alone-study_n_4387157.html. Unfortunately you can’t just download the original content unless you pay for it, but here’s the link anyway. I’m sure it would be a great read! http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/2013-36062-001/
The crux of the study is that there is a correlation between a person’s inability to be alone and their tendency to stay in bad relationships:
“We found that fear of being single predicted being less selective in expressing romantic interest but did not predict other daters’ romantic interest. Taken together, the present research suggests that fear of being single is a meaningful predictor of settling for less in relationships.”
I know y’all hate Huffpost, but I think there’s probably something to the study. The people I’ve known who need to be in a relationship for validation, they almost always make terrible life choices to quell their fear and loneliness.
– Their fear gives them a handicap – they have severely limited discernment ability.
– Their insecurity makes them easy marks for the worst sorts.
– Even after their relationship is dead, loveless, horrible, they still wont leave.
– They just substitute misery for loneliness.
SO I think the answer to your question lies in there somewhere. Also, you maybe don’t realize this, it probably seems like from your perspective that women are having these wonderful lives, but there are plenty of women doing the same thing, this really is not a men-only problem. They suffer the same fate, except usually they wind up pregnant with an abusive alcoholic absentee husband.
December 11th, 2013 at 1:02 pm
lyingtree2013, the gift that keeps on giving – but not Plain Jane as I previously suspected – wrote in one box:
For example, my man would say he values intelligence, independence, and integrity in a woman higher than looks or chastity. Not that he doesnt value them, just that on the priority-list totem pole, he values my character is higher than he values his ego. Since I value those assets higher in myself as well, and since i would never ever want to be with a man who valued my looks over my character, we make a good match.
Translation: My man agrees with me, so he must be rilly smart and all that. Solipsism? Never heard of it…
Then, more recently:
SO I think the answer to your question lies in there somewhere. Also, you maybe don’t realize this, it probably seems like from your perspective that women are having these wonderful lives, but there are plenty of women doing the same thing, this really is not a men-only problem. They suffer the same fate, except usually they wind up pregnant with an abusive alcoholic absentee husband.
Translation: “It’s All Men’s Fault”, one of the pillars of femininism.
Truly this thread is a wealth of Female Imperative on display.
December 11th, 2013 at 2:57 pm
“They suffer the same fate, except usually they wind up pregnant with an abusive alcoholic absentee husband.”
The alcoholic absentee husband that they choose because despite his major degenerate flaws he was the best they could do in terms of getting a man with alpha qualities.
They aren’t good enough for true high value alphas so they settle with a guy with dominant qualities despite his flaws because it’s better than being with a weak beta. Everything you wrote is dependent on this fact.
December 11th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Good catch, Ferret.
LT, why in your poinion do these women so often choose to “wind up… with an abusive alcoholic absentee husband”, when, as you said earlier, “get this one through your heads, men – women may want to get with alphas, but few of them really LIKE them”?
A guy who has negative-alpha (dark triad) traits, but lacks positive-alpha traits (strength, integrity, leadership) appears to still somehow be preferable to the decent but unremarkable guy who does his best to toe the line that society asks him to. Lots of those guys out there, no need to wind up preggers and beaten up and neglected by a guy they don’t even like.
You’d almost think women just love drama…
December 11th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
@LT…
Nope – I can do alone, no problem with that. In fact – logically, I’m so much better off without my (x)wife. I miss my family – and she was part of that. My kids live with her and I get to be a part time dad to them. And now with her being in love with dude – they get the pleasure of his company whether they like or not. And it’s not jealousy either – I went through that one. So like I said, I don’t know what it is and don’t know how many men actually go through it – but I’d assume it’s more of man-thing than a woman-thing.
December 11th, 2013 at 3:27 pm
There may well be something to that, Ferret, but at the core, there is a common theme – male or female –
passivity >> low perceived self-worth >> insecurity >> bad decision making >> bad outcomes.
December 11th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
So if the premise is that both men and women make foolish choices, the point we are trying to make is:
Our society goes out of its way to both warn women against making the wrong choices (demonizes men), and absolve them of accountability (encourages them to claim victim status, big daddy gov will pay for it)…
…where in the case of men, our society goes out of its way to discount warnings about women (labels it misogyny), and heaps excess responsibility on them (even if a dude has gone his own way, he still pays for it through a rigged tax system).
Something is really out of whack here.
December 11th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
D-man, in the case of the woman who “winds up with” an abusive alcoholic husband, it is as Ferret suggested. Low self-worth. They think its all they can get so, scared of being alone as so many are, they wind up targets for the worst sorts of people. Her actual SMV worth is less important here than her own perception of her worth.
Insecurity makes them unattractive to higher quality mates. It makes them clingy, desperate, unwilling to speak their mind. It also makes them a target for opportunists.
Its really the same problem I have seen far too many times among my very passive male friends, who are good men, attractive etc. but don’t see themselves as deserving somehow, and that insecurity motivates them to partner with any woman that would have them. A weak spirit always leads to being capitalized upon.
December 11th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
Well, you’re probably right about that D-Man.
However, I’ve seen my male buddies give up their kids to their horrible ex wives, paying insane amounts of money in support, without even putting up so much as a whimper, they didn’t even TRY because they were already convinced that they stood no chance of winning, so why bother… and by doing so, proved what the wife was saying: see, he doesn’t care!
When they start becoming more interested in fairness, the family court says something like “Why didn’t you make an effort for custody??” Like as in, they basically laid down like lambs, looking like they didn’t care to be involved at all. What they really wanted was custody of their kids, but they didn’t even ask or fight for it, so how would anyone know they cared?? I’m so very happy to see one of my male friends getting geared up to fix his pitiful life so he can start working towards getting custody of his daughter.
I wish more men would fight against the systemic unfairness, rather than just give up and become the bank machine. Its been going on too long. If you don’t fight, it will never change.
December 11th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
But unfortunately, D-Man, all those social warnings don’t seem to be stopping women from making incomprehensibly bad choices, in droves too… I dunno, I don’t get it. I keep reading about this cultural addiction we have to self-esteem, but I’m seeing an awful lot of decisions getting made that indicate the exact opposite.
I suspect it may be because there is a dearth of positive-alpha men out there these days, D-Man. So you may be right, some dumbass cracker women think that being desired by bad-alpha is better than being adored by good-beta. I also think these are the kinds of women you guys should learn to avoid… :)
December 11th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
Tin Man, the principle difference between the two scenarios isn’t the frequency. I think the stats indicate that its happening a lot for women and men. The difference is when a beta-male gets kicked to the curb by his bitch of a wife, she takes the kids. When the beta-female gets kicked to the curb by her dick of a husband, he leaves the kids.
And in my estimation, whether or not its more or less, the latter is the considerably worse situation for everyone (except dick husband, who probably walked away without paying a dime).
Beta female is very likely a very low income earner, and she has the kids too. Beta male usually doesn’t have that problem. He has a whole different set of problems, but usually low income earning potential isn’t one of them.
December 11th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
LT, Dman, the answer for that is in three profiles: narcissism, borderline personality and codependency. Look them up.
For a while I thought a bunch of behaviors were feminine, then I realized they were N / BPD / CD traits. A lot of betas are CD and a lot of attractive people are N / CD.
The abused girlfriend or boyfriend stays in an abusive relationship not because they have low self esteem, but because that’s how they get their self esteem. They see themselves as heros, the abuser is their mission. They need the tragedy and co-create it. Don’t get fooled.
December 11th, 2013 at 4:34 pm
@LT
You simply don’t get it. Start from the bottom and then work your way to the top.
Women want/need dominant high status men to fulfill their biological agenda to provide resources since the top dogs control them.
Men want attractive women who look hot which serve as signs of fertility and superior genetics.
Every choice sprawls from there. You can’t just say well just don’t choose people with those characteristics because they have x flaw and expect people to follow it.
It’s not insecurity or this or that. Those women and men will take the best available option in the areas where they have biological interest. They are not good enough for hot girl with good personality or noble alpha so they take the next best thing.
The remedy for this dilemma is be young and hot it you’re a girl and marry young and strive to maximize your attraction vectors to the max if you’re a guy. Plain and simple. Anything else besides that and you’re making significant compromises either in the character or attraction department.
It’s really not that hard. It’s you simply refuse to accept it.
December 11th, 2013 at 4:57 pm
lyingtree2013
However, I’ve seen my male buddies give up their kids to their horrible ex wives, paying insane amounts of money in support, without even putting up so much as a whimper, they didn’t even TRY because they were already convinced that they stood no chance of winning, so why bother… and by doing so, proved what the wife was saying: see, he doesn’t care!
Gee, why would men do that? Maybe because they’ve been brainwashed to serve the Female Imperative? Or maybe because they know more than you do about anti-Family court, an institution created by the usual alliance of tradcons and feminists, solely to serve women – maybe those men knew they did not have a chance, because some aging White Knight would “just know” that the woman is always right? Maybe those men knew that some aging 2nd stage “Fish / bicycle” feminist judge would hurt them even more for resisting, perhaps by imputing income even higher in order to force them eventually into prison?
The anti-family court system is a result of the feminism that you endorse. It is your preferences writ into law – the court of equity, not court of law – decides what is “fair”. Not what an unambiguous law says, but what is “fair”.
When they start becoming more interested in fairness, the family court says something like “Why didn’t you make an effort for custody??”
I’m laughing out loud at this lie.
Like as in, they basically laid down like lambs, looking like they didn’t care to be involved at all. What they really wanted was custody of their kids, but they didn’t even ask or fight for it, so how would anyone know they cared??
Because if they did ask or fight for it, they’d have to bring a lot of money – as in, tens of thousands of dollars – to pay for attorney fees, legal bribes, etc. in order to have a chance. Yet at the same time those men would also have to bring tens of thousands of dollars more to pay for the attorney for their soon-to-be-ex-wife as well. And with all of that, they still stand a pretty poor chance of winning, what with “mother custody” running about 90% of all divorce cases.
Now this is the point where you babble about how this isn’t true because you once knew a man who had a cousin whose neighbor won custody of a child, or some other drivel. Because facts mean nothing to you.
I’m so very happy to see one of my male friends getting geared up to fix his pitiful life so he can start working towards getting custody of his daughter.
Oh, sure.
I wish more men would fight against the systemic unfairness, rather than just give up and become the bank machine. Its been going on too long. If you don’t fight, it will never change.
But honey, it’s you who created the systemic unfairness. You and women just like you created all of this, in the name of “equity”. So your crocodile tears are extremely unconvincing.
December 11th, 2013 at 4:59 pm
Great point Yohami, and quite true. Although I think if you investigate people who are addicted to drama and co-dependency, you will also find low self-esteem traits as well. Which came first? Who knows.
December 11th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
Of course you do, Ferret. Its called higher-level reasoning. You will find, if you try it sometime, that you are capable of making more advanced decisions that take into account things the value of other besides your biological urge to inseminate. Most rational men find that they become capable of that in their 30’s….
Hmmm, right around the same time that their SMV starts to spike… I wonder if there is a connection between those two things??
December 11th, 2013 at 5:35 pm
“Most rational men find that they become capable of that in their 30′s….
Hmmm, right around the same time that their SMV starts to spike… I wonder if there is a connection between those two things??
”
30s SMV start to spike only men that take care of themselves which is a small percentage. The men that you are talking about that use your higher-level reasoning bullshit are the betas that are getting their scraps from when the women are kicked off the cock carousel and they are signing their life away for something that other men got for free and minimal effort with maybe a gift of skittles here and there.
December 11th, 2013 at 5:46 pm
Unfairness in the system regarding custody/alimony/child support rulings and payments, although clearly also a huge issue, is not what I was getting at above.
What I’m saying is: Men who Go Their Own Way, who by all accounts avoid making these poor decisions, who choose not to get married or tie themselves in any way to a woman who is essentially a lifelong socioeconomic ball-and-chain (due to Hypergamy, women rarely, rarely marry men who earn less than them) … these men have more energy to work on their careers, more time to grow their personal wealth… but what happens? They get taxed disproportionately higher (usually zero tax breaks, and calls for higher rates are getting louder). Where does some of that money go? It’s redistributed to single mothers who HAVE made poor choices.
For our purposes it would not be productive to get into the other demographic angles involved. Plenty of bickering elsewhere on that topic.
If the source of cuckold paranoia is the biological fear of investing one’s effort, time, and resources into raising another man’s offspring… well, it seems that even a man who stays away from commitment entirely will still be cuckolded, de facto, by the state.
December 11th, 2013 at 6:12 pm
By the way, with regards to the “poor choices” that women are making? These poor choices aren’t limited to picking the wrong deadbeat abusive dick as a sperm-donor.
No, I think far more commonly, the poor choice that many single mothers have made (have been encouraged and facilitated to make) is to marry a beta, have a kid with him (might not be his), and then kick him out ’cause she ain’t haaappy, doesn’t “have it all”… but continue to rape him for funds with the full weight of the law. While the guy’s heart and spirit are slowly crushed.
Why do I think this is a poor choice LT, when we went to such pains to describe women who slut around or lie as simply acting in their “self-interest” like any “self-interested” crack addict? Surely they’re getting the best of both worlds here.
It’s a poor choice because it fucks up the kids. It leads to all those CD, BPD, ND thingies Yohami mentions, and much more. An endless cycle of them.
If sites like this can teach that beta enough to short-out this circuit at a crucial step, then arguably, we’re saving the fucking world..
December 11th, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Um, ok D-Man, pardon my confusion here. I was raised in an adopted family and my parents loved me very deeply, so I’m not sure I really can truly appreciate the DNA fixation in order to love a child. Explain again to me why that matters?
I’ve tried and tried, it makes no sense to me. Children all need to be supported and loved, why does it matter by who? Almost all mammal species on the planet raise offspring communally. I would take the neighbors children in if I thought they were being neglected by their own parents. But that’s not done here, uh-uh. Instead, we cast the scornful eye on the neglect, wag our fingers and cluck our tongues at them, and the government picks up the pieces of the broken home.
The only reason I can come up with for this is the insidious effects of property rights. It makes so little sense to me that I am actually confounded.
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/i-may-have-a-son-but-ill-never-know-for-sure/#!pGaY2
I’m sure a great many people on earth have a plaguing fear of being cheated on, its a perfectly understandable fear, since it does happen far too often. But the paternity thing? I just don’t understand it. Why you would want to destroy a family over DNA is just beyond me.
December 11th, 2013 at 7:07 pm
I don’t disagree with your conclusion D-Man, though I think there’s probably cause for debate as to which happens more often. But not here, please, I don’t have the resources available to defend it either way. Another article maybe… :)
At any rate, the point of much of my input in this forum is that there are better ways to short the circuit than removing what you want out of the equation altogether.
Life is risky, and self-improvement is hard, but if you’re willing to put the effort in to having personal integrity and making better choices, you will potentially have better outcomes, and if not, at the very least you will be better able to weather the outcomes you do have.
http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/12/03/beyond-sissy-resilience-on-becoming-antifragile/
December 11th, 2013 at 7:15 pm
If there’s pussy to fuck, and you go for the asshole, you’re not a man. Only faggots want to fuck anyone in the ass. If you get off on ass-to-mouth, you need psychological help.
There, I said it.
December 11th, 2013 at 7:24 pm
It’s a visceral thing, LT. Why is DNA important? Well, IT’S IN THE DNA.
I applaud those who adopt, including your family, you seem to have turned out well.
But let me see…
Imagine you’re raped by a stranger, and then forced to carry, birth, and care for the child. In that case, THE CHILD IS STILL 50% YOU.
A guy who gets fucked over by his WIFE, who fucks another dude and tricks him into raising and paying for some OTHER GUY’s kid? THAT KID IS 0% HIM. Now, can he love him? Absolutely. Will the kid pick up on his mannerisms and values? Sure. He’s still the kid’s “father”. Socially.
But let’s imagine the worst possible scenario. Imagine, on some level, probably subconsciously due to the fact that there’s A GODDAMN ALIEN Y CHROMOSOME IN HIS HOUSE, the family isn’t 100% harmonious to the fullest satisfaction of the wife. Now she kicks him out, denies him from seeing the kid (that ain’t his but he probably does care deeply for anyway), and MAKES HIM PAY FOR IT.
Oh, you say, that type of situation would just NEVER happen, would it? I mean, come ON, what are we talking about here, one in a million? Why get all bent out of shape over an aberration?
Read this article: http://www.canadiancrc.com/newspaper_articles/Globe_and_Mail_Moms_Little_secret_14DEC02.aspx
5-15 percent. Let’s take the low end of that. For 5% of kids, Dad ain’t who he thinks he is.
If 50% of marriages end in divorce, that scenario above is happening potentially 2.5% of the time.
Now, do you think for a second, if 2.5% of the biologically viable female population were raped by strangers and forced to carry, birth, and then raise the children, DO YOU THINK WE WOULD HEAR ABOUT IT?!?!?!?!? MAYBE?!?!
I tell ya, if you wanna get a guy worked up, show him a video of 5 guys running a train on his frigid wife, or show him a DNA test of his kid to prove it ain’t his, I don’t know which’ll make him go postal faster…
December 11th, 2013 at 7:37 pm
To make the analogy above more accurate, let’s take the rape part out (since it might constitute a violent act), and imagine that it’s the STATE that is forcing insemination with a stranger’s seed on 2.5% of women… THAT is essentially what is happening to men right now.
December 11th, 2013 at 7:45 pm
@Some Guy
the only who is in the faggot borderline are you, women are crazy if you don’t fuck her ass she will look for someone else to do it.
December 11th, 2013 at 7:56 pm
OK I totally get you D-Man. And postal is the correct response to both, but tell me really, how much of the DNA-testing negative is the ire resultant from being cheated on (which would be enough to make me hire a hit-man, personally) and how much is from the DNA issue? I can’t help think that the child is taking the heat for what is actually an issue with the wife.
Anyway, something about what you just said was intriguing…
“the family isn’t 100% harmonious to the fullest satisfaction of the wife. Now she kicks him out, denies him from seeing the kid (that ain’t his but he probably does care deeply for anyway), and MAKES HIM PAY FOR IT.”
The shit part of this (well, its all shitty, but the really really shitty part) is (in my opinion) that she would deny him access. THAT I don’t understand. Unless “dad” is a really bad person that’s dangerous to the kid, there is no reason, DNA or not, for her to deny him a relationship with the child. That is the worst thing she could do, ever.
I know personally of several tales of men who married women with children from a previous marriage. They, too divorce, after he has more or less raised her child for the past however many years, and she tells him he has no rights. NO RIGHTS???? What do rights have to do with it???? THE RIGHT TO LOVE A CHILD??????? That is NOT a right of possession. This lesson is called, “How to give your child abandonment issues.”
December 11th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
Aaaaactually, now that I think about it, if we really want to see the female claws come out, let’s imagine a situation where the Modern Independent (TM) Woman is forced by the state to pay for some other woman’s child… some SPECIFIC OTHER BITCH’s child.
OOOOOhhohohohio boy, would the fireworks start then….
December 11th, 2013 at 8:16 pm
OK, um, D-Man? Paying for someone else’s child? I earn a six-figure salary. I have no children. I am already paying for other peoples children via my large tax burden. Oddly, I have absolutely no problem with that at all. I’d rather be paying my tax dollars to fund creative forms of discipline to aid people who have no personal integrity, but I don’t expect that’ll happen anytime soon:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/28085/john-kerry-says-americans-have-the-right-to-be-stupid-gets-laughed-at-by-a-room-full-of-germans
And, yes if my husband had custody of his children, and his bitch of an ex-wife couldn’t be bothered to pay him support, I would also have no issue contributing to the raising of them, even if we divorced (well, presuming we divorced for reasons besides him getting someone else pregnant).
And yes, if my husband fucked my best friend and knocked her up, I’d probably kill them all. Well maybe just the two of them, and I’d steal the kid first. And I would defiantly pay for it to have a proper upbringing.
But that’s just me. I’m weird like that I guess. That crazzzzy optimism again.
December 11th, 2013 at 8:40 pm
Well LT, you’re a saint. I don’t meant that sarcastically. Please get other women to listen to you.
“Paying for someone else’s child? I earn a six-figure salary. I have no children. I am already paying for other peoples children via my large tax burden. Oddly, I have absolutely no problem with that at all.”
What some people (especially men) have difficulty with (and I include myself in this) is the thought of a SPECIFIC person out there – someone you MAY know, but you don’t know WHO it is – some competitor is getting a free ride on your life’s toil.
Who knows, maybe it’s worse if you DO find out who it is. But the thought that your legacy, your genetic line, has been cut short, usurped by the interloper, and your life’s efftorts have been commandeered on the whim of your PARTNER for fucksake…
Whew. Can’t say I’d kill anyone but I sure would nope the fuck outta there if I could. But then to think that your GOVERNMENT wouldn’t stand up for you… instead, in the “best interests of the child” (there’s that term again), you might be forced to have your nose pushed right into the stinky pile of crap that’s been dumped on your personal grindstone, and YOU AIN’T FUCKIN DONE YET BOY, GET TO WORK…
December 12th, 2013 at 12:02 am
And then, to top it all off, this smirking Hugo guy comes along with his six chinchillas and tries to tell you that you really shouldn’t be upset. Women have it so much harder, think of her burden hiding the truth all this time. He tells you the kid will be better off never knowing who he is.
Come on
December 12th, 2013 at 1:02 am
December 12th, 2013 at 2:24 am
My friend, If I were in your shoes, (but I’m not keep that in mind) I would leave for the fact that for years she lied to you about a major subject. Claiming herself a very innocent person, to a porn whore? I couldn’t deal with the lie, she would lose all my trust.
December 12th, 2013 at 10:33 am
Read this from one of LT’s posts:
“…And please, I hope that you don’t think that I meant to exonerate this woman from her fault. That was never my intention. The lie was unfair, and I would never back up a woman who did that. I just always make a point to think about the possible reasons for people’s behavior, it allows for me to have both empathy and objectivity, not to justify it, but to understand it and learn from it. (I can hear the scoffing and eye rolling from here).”
Reading LT’s first few posts, she didn’t have much “empathy” for the man’s choice to marry this woman in the first place.
@LT, you’re allowed to have empathy, I doubt you actually do.
– and FTR, I’m not interested in owning any woman’s virginity but thanks for asking.
December 12th, 2013 at 10:54 am
If you are interested – there was a follow up: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/35036
Looks like he grew a pair and started divorce proceedings – although there was much shaming from the women. I suspect this story touched a little too close to home for many women, who are lying, or have lied to their Beta Bucks provider…
December 13th, 2013 at 3:58 am
I’m a woman, and I’m surprised by the nature of opinions on women I’ve seen here. I’m in love with my lover, and can tell he’s in love with me, so found this page from a search on how men feel love. I believe that men’s emotions are more steadfast and more slow to develop than most women’s, but most of you seem to think women are vapid villainesses. It’s quite depressing to think that apparently everyone is terrified of being taken advantage of. Come on, fundamentally woman wants to feel safe and loved, and a man wants to feel appreciated supported and loved. Those aren’t mutually exclusive desires at all! Not all women just want to be nags who demand things. Some of us want the same simple connection and emotions you all do. I refuse to believe what’s being said here that women are vultures incapable of love. Maybe some, but there are lots of shady shallow people. It’s not a flaw with the whole female gender. Can’t be. I know I’m not. I came here to learn more about how to show my appreciation and feelings in a way that would resonate with him beyond saying it (which has to be shown, you can tell without saying it) and appear to be coming away with a cautionary tale of how bitter and disappointed a man can be if that fails. :(
Also, in reference to the above article, a woman wants to be with a man she loves, feel like she’s HIS, and be totally sexually uninhibited between them. That’s passion. Everyone wants that right? If you’re with a woman who uses it as a bargaining chip instead of bonding dump her butt. Don’t assume that’s how we all are please. It’s sad.
December 13th, 2013 at 6:00 am
This is just a thought, but why do people on this forum (women specifically) who aren’t interested in men appear to be standing up for a woman who has caused her man to leave him.
I don’t follow baseball, so I really don’t care about any on-field decisions that are made in a game between two teams, so why should women who claim to not want relationships with men care so much about what men should/shouldn’t do in certain circumstances and, more to the point, need any sort of ‘women’s logic’ justification to accept that a man felt hurt and has decided to end his relationship because of it.
Do these same women troll women’s blogs looking for stories about wives ending their unhappy marriages “just because”? I highly doubt it!
This guy has WAY more cause to leave his wife than the majority of wives leaving their husbands due to “irreconcilable differences” or “we’ve grown apart”.
How about an analogy that a woman could understand, similar to one on a previous page, but with one crucial difference:
Imagine you (a woman) met a man and fell in love and got married. You knew he didn’t earn much (a bit above minimum wage) and money was always tight. You ate mostly home-cooked food, but sometimes you didn’t have enough money after rent and bills were paid and were left with rice and noodles or reasons to go to visit family at their place for dinners.
This existence went on for seven years and produced a daughter, which added to the financial strain, but you wouldn’t change that for the world.
Rummaging through the storage locker in the basement of your apartment building, you come across some of your husband’s old stuff and you find three things that will test your relationship: an engineering degree, an old payslip from an engineering company and a photo album of a holiday resort.
You knew your husband went to college, but you didn’t know that he’d received a degree in engineering!
You open up the payslip to see that your husband used to be a very well paid engineer, earning over $100k a year almost 10 years ago. Doing some quick calculations you work out he’d be earning between $150k and $200k if he were still doing that same job today!
Then you open up the photo album to see your husband 10 years younger with an ex-girlfriend on a tropical island resort with a note in the back of it which reads “Thanks for yet another wonderful holiday, you spoil me!”
You run upstairs to confront him with this. In the elevator ride up, all your thoughts racing through your brain, you wonder what you’ll ask about first.
Why was he prepared to work as a highly paid engineer for his ex-gf and lavish expensive gifts/holidays on her, yet you’re forced to live pay cheque to pay cheque with what he earns as an unskilled worker?
Is his own DAUGHTER not worth him putting himself out to work in a job which would see HER better looked after?
You walk into the room and confront him about keeping his qualifications a secret and having you and his daughter living below the poverty line when clearly he had the skills to earn far more, but clearly didn’t think you (and by extension your daughter) were worth it.
He says he’ll go back to working as an engineer for you, that it was a past life and it didn’t make him happy and he was sick of women always wanting him for his money, but he’ll do it now since you’ve ‘found out’.
But it’s too late. He’s kept you virtually starving for seven years while he was quite happy to lavish an expensive lifestyle on other women in the past.
I think that the above story, whilst long, is probably a closer male-female reversal. What woman wouldn’t be pissed that a guy wasn’t prepared to provide the best resources for his wife (and later, daughter) when he’d done so and more for women who were just his girlfriend(s)? My guess is extremely few.
December 13th, 2013 at 6:09 am
Andy … Props bro on that scenario. Very well done.
December 13th, 2013 at 9:06 am
@Sarah,
Please go to another place to write all that crap.
Everybody here knows that women are lie machines and the most selfish creature on earth. You just need to look what you wrote, full of lies and selfishness.
December 13th, 2013 at 9:14 pm
GREAT POST.
I did not have the time to read through all these posts, so I don’t know if someone else pointed this out, but having read this:
“He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.”
I had a lightbulb go off.
His own wife friend-zoned him.
Oh, sure, they got married, and she still puts out, grudgingly it seems, so while their relationship is not strictly platonic, in large part it effectively is, especially contrasting it with her previous interest level.
December 14th, 2013 at 12:00 am
@Andy G: Good story.
@Sara: All you need to know is that women initiate somewhere between 65-75% of all divorces. Let’s call it 2/3. So if you don’t want to call them vultures what adjectives would you use? 2/3’s Sarah. 2/3’s.
December 14th, 2013 at 1:15 am
[…] their first husbands. Alas, the men who marry women after 25 or so are likely only getting the scraps that are left of her sexuality, her ability to pair bond, her attractiveness and more importantly, […]
December 14th, 2013 at 5:15 pm
@ Cleo I’m trying to understand men, we women get crappy info in general and you all are being very forthright here. My boyfriend’s ex was the type of woman you all despise, and deserves to be despised. A greedy ungrateful slut. It’s unfortunate that you apparently believe all women are like that. I didn’t write anything negative about men, or you. What’s with the nastiness? I don’t even know what you think I could be lying about in what I wrote. I wrote opinions and feelings. Those are subjective. Assume what you like, but I’m coming here with good intentions and curiousity so I’d appreciate not being insulted. I’m going to discuss with others who are so inclined, you’re free to ignore me.
@AKA oh yeah women like you describe are vultures. My boyfriend’s ex wife went after his pension and all sorts of stuff. The court didn’t even care that she cheated and lied, there’s little price paid by women for causing the failure of the marriage. Divorce court does typically reward women regardless of fault. It’s absurd that being the one to destroy the marriage isn’t factored into the courts decision. Some women say all sorts of smack about their husbands while married to them, like its a joke. It’s pathetic. Makes the women look bad. You’re supposed to be your husbands/boyfriends biggest cheerleader and keep disputes private. Some women can be conniving bitches. So can some men! The women who game the system to rip off their discarded lovers leave men so burnt that you all are understandably wary of risk. It’s not a fun setup for anybody reasonable, men or women.
I’m trying to figure out the alpha beta thing you all are talking about. Alphas sound mean and to be avoided, and betas are pushovers? Is that it? Where’s room for the traditional male head of the household? Maybe I’m not getting this. Where is the info for this idea please?
December 14th, 2013 at 8:07 pm
The traditional male head of the household was a beta / situational alpha and got destroyed due to feminism. Now we have free agent alphas and traditionalist (bluepill) betas. They are pushovers because they are the only ones doing the “right thing” with women taking advantage of them.
Alphas take advantage of women, if you want to go for that angle. But women have the option to go for alphas and betas. Betas – the majority of men only have the option to go for women, And most women are vultures.
December 15th, 2013 at 11:59 pm
There’s this forum on the Manosphere called No More Mr Nice Guy. Lately it’s been a little too on the blue pill side of things for my tastes.
Nevertheless two posts come to mind when I read this excellent Rollo story. One from 8 years ago on that forum for. A long gone member named ChrisVet. He wrote, if a woman is all a suddenly not cumming with you anymore, don’t try to romance her or anything. Because the real truth hear is that she’s lost her attraction.
On a more recent post a man named Karuk was on this thread debating whether you dismount when your gf is only gonna give you duty sex or whether you just power through it? He said “power through is the ONLY option that should even be considered. If you think that dismount is gonna make you think of your feelings, you’re DEAD WRONG. If playing starfish gets you off of that self-centered child, she is thrilled. She is responsible for her pleasure. She can play starfish or pornstar. Her choice.”
Hope I didn’t get too off topic there. But it does relate enough to this thread to belong in the Comments area IMHO.
December 16th, 2013 at 2:55 pm
“Would it really be okay with you to see your hypothetical wife on video doing that kind of thing if she were also happy to do it with you, too?”
It might be. As long as I’m going to be expected to pay full freight and buy the cow, I want the same quality milk. I want to have what everyone else got to have.
Deti
I am dating a woman who has pretty vast experience. She said her N was like 10 including me. Yea right! Anyways, I made her my personal whore. She would even say that she is during sex and even when we are not having sex. I will never marry her or expending too much of myself for her, but with the right frame a woman like this guys slut wife or my woman can be fun.
If he makes her into his slut he can have some fun while he works to protect his assets for the upcoming divorce. I personally would never forgive her or accept what she did, but with a little dark triad here can turn the situation to his advantage. He does this by buying time for the reinvention of himself. If his wife is still hot, he should get her to bang other chicks and whatnot. With her he will have help at scoring with other women and this will help him raise his confidence and his alpha.
His divorcing her after he set up a favorable situation for himself and his child is just payback for her past lying about her past sluttiness. Again, no forgiveness, jus buying time.
December 16th, 2013 at 2:56 pm
Rollo, you claim in this article that “every man” wants a slut for his very own, while completely missing out on the fact that every part of our world is telling us that sluts are evil and disposable… and you yourselves on this forum here say so many things that support this viewpoint!
Livingtree,
Although we would never meet I am sure, hypothetically I would make you my personal slut. It’s a power men must have over their woman. Even strong independent woman like you will succumb to this power for the right man.
Woman are disposable if they do not meet our expectations and minimal requirements and are pleasant. If you lie about your past – NEXT. If you become unpleasant and fat – NEXT. If you withhold pussy – NEXT.
If you stay fit and attractive, are sexually available and enthusiastic, good wives, submissive, pleasant, good mothers, loyal, faithful and trustworthy we keep you. Those traits are basic requirements for any wife to have in a marriage, or even in general. If you cannot do even the basics, why do you expect we should commit to you for life and give you our best?
As for hiding their sexuality, women who were sluts will get slut treatment. That’s the consequences of their previous behavior. If they did not want to be treated like sluts don’t behave like one. If a woman like sex, which is good, it is fine as long as she expresses her raw sexuality with her husband and him only. Most men will not criticize his wife who even though had a low N before marriage for wanting to slut it up with her hubby or be more adventurous as long as it does not involve other cocks. I have seen most wives become more comfortable as they age and the sex with them is much much better according to their husbands. This is how it should be actually. Women like you have it ass backwards because you give the best of yourselves to every other man leaving nothing new for your husbands. Woman who do that deserve the slut treatment and condemnation they get.
Lastly the woman in the story is a lying whore, nothing more. She deserves all the worst treatment.
December 16th, 2013 at 4:15 pm
The women are not responding because we are in shock that women really do stuff like that. Perhaps I am still reeling from the jennifer Erickson story but I have had my eyes opened to a whole new reality. And it sucks. What does one call it when they dislike their own gender?
December 17th, 2013 at 5:37 pm
Gabrielle
The women are not responding because we are in shock that women really do stuff like that. Perhaps I am still reeling from the jennifer Erickson story but I have had my eyes opened to a whole new reality. And it sucks. What does one call it when they dislike their own gender?
Hmm. So your eyes hurt, all of a sudden?
Yes, women do stuff like that. It’s not new. It predates VHS and Betamax tape. It predated Super 8 home movie cameras, too…
Congrats on recognizing it. Most women don’t want to do so in public, not even the bogus “public” of a combox.
December 19th, 2013 at 4:40 pm
[…] nevertheless. She seemed to not want to come to grips with the reality of this situation that she squandered her best with various other men and she incorrectly thought that this was her reality. I would never […]
December 23rd, 2013 at 12:26 am
[…] to acquire the symbols of social status, including the hot alpha man if they can pull it off, but a beta will do if he makes enough money. Many women have been raised to expect this either by being brought up in a household with higher […]
December 24th, 2013 at 2:34 pm
[…] man never get the best of a woman who has been with another man. Rollo talks about this in relationship to a popular story on Reddit of a woman who was a prude with her husband sexually. […]