To start off today’s topic I thought I’d repost a Red Pill reddit thread I received a link-back to last week. Rather than give you my own summary of this guy’s situation, I felt the impact would be more significant by posting it in its entirety; and also because I don’t believe the guy really got a fair hearing on his original post.
I posted this earlier on another subreddit but it ended up getting removed because of fighting in the comments. I’ll sum up what happened thus far. I met my wife 7 years ago, she was extremely picky when it came to sex. She told me she only has been with 1 other guy before. She would never give a blow job, only would do certain positions and found almost every sex act degrading. I was frustrated by this, but I really liked her and hoped over the years she would open up sexually. Over the years, it never got any better but I learned to get over it. Well I ended up finding an old video from her college days of her engaging in group sex with 6 other people 5 guys 1 girl. In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it. I ended up feeling really sad. I can understand certain stuff people don’t want to do, but it wasn’t the fact she didn’t want to do them. She didn’t want to do them with me but every other guy she was their whore. I was angry hurt and I ended up saying some stupid shit to my wife.
I asked her if she could drop our daughter off at her sister’s house because I wanted to talk to her. She asked why, I told her we’d discuss after she came back.
I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.
Me: Is there anything about your past you have been hiding about me?
Her: Why are we talking about this?
Me: I just want to know were you in any type of porn or anything like that?
Her: are you taking drugs?
Me: I found your video from college with the other guys. I don’t know who you are anymore and I feel ill being around you.
She starts crying.
Me: Do you have anything to say?
She continues to cry. This was pointless I go to grab my keys to leave. And she tries to stop me.
Me: If you don’t want me to leave then I need you to be 100% honest with me, and tell me why you lied to me for all these years.
She: I didn’t want you to think I was a slut
Me: I would have been perfectly fine if you told me, I would have loved to have done those wild things with you. Look I get it I don’t turn you on like those other guys do. You liked sucking their dicks but not mine.
She: It’s not that, I didn’t want you to think less of me.
Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.
She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.
Me: I don’t want you to do it because you feel like you have to. I want someone that actually desires me.
She: I can change I promise don’t ruin our marriage over this we can work things out. We can go to marriage counseling seriously talk to me.
Me: Marriage counseling won’t change how you feel about me. Look I will try marriage counseling but I want a trial separation for now.
She: Please don’t do this. Don’t throw away our marriage for what I did in college please.
Me: Stop fucking acting like it’s a one time thing. Be honest with me how many guys did you fuck before me. How many guys dicks have you sucked, and how many guys have you let fuck you in the ass.
She: why does it matter, I said I’ll do them with you
Me: I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.
She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change.
Me: I am not divorcing you but I want a trial separation for now, and I want to see how things go, right now I feel sick looking at you.
I ended up leaving my wife kept trying to stop me. She kept on begging saying I could do anything I wanted with her, it was truly pathetic and I lost all respect for my wife the way she was trying to manipulate me with sex.
I am staying at a motel right now; I have been getting constant calls from my wife. She has been asking me where I am, if I tell her than she is going to confront me and I don’t feel like I am ready for that. I feel so fucking drained. I feel bad saying those things to my wife but I don’t know what else to do I am so fucking hurt over this.
As I said before I wouldn’t care if she had a promiscuous past, seriously, wouldn’t care but the fact she did all those things for other guys but doesn’t do them for me hurts me the deepest.
I don’t see how this marriage can be recovered. I can’t change her attraction to me. My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.
Please tell me what exactly I can do, my confidence as a man has been destroyed. Before I found out about this, I tried to get my wife to open up sexually but she completely shot it down. I really believe she isn’t attracted to me in the way she was to those other guys. That’s why she felt completely fine being “their whore” but won’t give me a blow job. I want a woman that looks at me lustfully, not that has sex with me to fulfill “wifey duties.”
I don’t feel entitled to other types of sex with my wife. I want her to want to do them. Now even if she does do them it will be out of guilt, not out of desire. I don’t see how we can recover our marriage. I feel really shitty that I won’t be able to seem my daughter as much, especially during her younger years.
I have already made some calls to reroute my paychecks and get my finances in order if we do go for a divorce. My brother works at a big law firm, I am thinking about contacting him to at least see what I should be doing now. Thing is once I call him it becomes the point of no return, if I tell my family members than their image of my wife becomes destroyed. Also I’d have to check because right now she is dependent on me for health insurance, and I don’t want her to be deprived of that if we do divorce, because she has been having health issues. I don’t want to ruin anything but I can’t see how things would ever be okay. If you don’t have any advice for me and are just going to be judgmental please don’t waste your time commenting. I know I said some hurtful things in there but you don’t know the level of hurt I am feeling right now. I have apologized to my wife since then, but I don’t see how our relationship can be recovered.
Edit – I want to make things work, between me and my wife. I understand she doesn’t want to do certain sex acts. I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage. That way we can still be together as a family and we both can have the fulfilling sex lives we want.
There’s a lot going on in this situation, but I think the first thing that should be addressed here is that, personally, I think these sorts of past life revelations are a lot more common than most men are comfortable in admitting. I wish I could say this was the first time I’ve ever encountered a story like his — it’s actually the 7th time, and four of those were personal accounts from men I’ve counseled.
As our culture becomes more technologically adept, electronic records – whether they’re ‘self-shots’, incriminating GNO pics uploaded to various forms of social media, male-stripper party videos, or amateur / semi-pro pornography – will have an increasingly greater role in filling the pieces of the puzzle that constitutes a woman’s relational and sexual past. The real problem will cease to be doing any actual detective work, and more about what a (Beta) man will allow himself to believe about his ‘special snowflake’ in contrast to the gestalt knowledge of women’s behaviors on whole.
There was a recent article posted on Return of Kings by Emmanuel Goldstein detailing the Game necessity of presuming all women are sluts. In light of stories like this it’s hard not to see the pragmatism in that, but at least when you are single, Game-aware and spinning plates you have the luxury and (should have) the foresight to know that even the Good Girls ‘Do’ have the inclination to go feral with the hot Alpha in the foam cannon party in Cancun on Spring Break when she’s in the proliferative phase of her ovulatory cycle.
Predictably, I’m sure the “ooh, ooh men do it too!” wing of the critics gallery will be the first to cry foul, as they ever have, about my drawing attention to the feral dynamics of sexual side of feminine hypergamy. And were it only about one side of women’s pluralistic sexual strategy (Alpha Fucks & Beta Bucks) they might have a point, but it’s the other half of the Hypergamic equation, the part that requires long term male provisioning paired with emotional investment that sets men’s short term sexual appetites apart from women’s short term Hypergamy.
The Best of Her
The author of this reddit thread is feeling the sharp end of that Hypergamic equation. While I’m sure there will be every effort made to paint this man’s wife as some fucked up, emotionally damaged, and conveniently, sexually abused victim (we don’t know this, but that was the default association in the comments of his original thread), the operative I’m driving at here isn’t about her individualized experiences, but the methodology she and all women use to justify their sexual pluralism.
Prior to the advent of technologies that could evidentially prove women’s sexual exploits (often proudly so now) the more visceral aspects of a woman’s sexuality, and the inconvenient hindbrain/hormonal prompts that motivate them, could be kept secret well enough to deceive a man with provisioning potential to commit to the long term security the other half of her Hypergamy demands. As the technology to record this becomes more ubiquitous, more permanent and fluid in its use, as men become more interconnected by it, and as women enjoy more self-affirmation from it, rationalizing her past indiscretions becomes more of an imperative.
Men saturated and conditioned over the better half of their lifetime by the feminine imperative to be the convenient cuckolds to women’s Hypergamy – men like the author of this confession – have an ego-invested interest in presuming the woman they pair with will be “giving him the best of herself” once his ship comes in and all of his patience and equalist beliefs finally pay off.
Only, men like this discover too late, usually well after they realize their commitment has hamstrung their SMV peak potential, that not only have they been a retroactive cuckold (sometimes even moralistically proud to be so), but they’ve been socially conditioned to be one, by their mothers, their emasculated fathers, their sisters, female friends, teachers and the whole of the feminine imperative’s effort for most of their lives.
One of the reasons I, and most of the manosphere, receive so much scorn from plugged-in, feminine primary society is that we risk to expose this process. This author’s story is the inconvenient truth of a pluralistic feminine sexual strategy. Women’s capacity to cash out of the SMP, to raise children, to create a semblance of a family life so conflicted with her single life, on what she thinks should be her terms, all rides on keeping men with a long term provisioning potential (greater Betas) ignorant of their pre-cuckolding and the conditioning that took so long to convince them would be their responsibility.
I am so fucking lucky. I got married to a whore, that fucks like a prude.
The primary reason men become preoccupied with women’s sexual past is rooted in ‘getting the best’ she has to offer him sexually. There is certainly more aspects to this (fidelity, secure attachment, etc.), but as I’ve stated before, all men want a slut, they just want her to be HIS slut. Once the belief that he’s getting the best sex she has to offer him is dispelled, viscerally and definitively, the nature of the Desire Dynamic comes into sharp focus.
I Want You to Want Me
Naturally, once a woman’s true sexual capacity is revealed after the establishment of her normalized, married sexuality, her first impetus is to preserve the provisioning she enjoyed while ‘her secret’ was working for her.
Me: No it is exactly that, there is a thing lying about sleeping with other guys. It’s not that you didn’t like doing those things. You didn’t like doing them with me.
She: I can do that stuff with you. I am attracted to you, you know that.
[…] She: Please don’t waste all of our marriage for this. I am willing to change
What we’re reading here is the script for negotiated desire. Her real desire isn’t for his satisfaction or any real resolution for the deception of her sexual pluralism, but rather a solipsistic maintaining of a normalcy for herself. Our author has no other rationalizations to fall back on, denial of his conditions are no longer sufficient, and he begins to realize a cruel red pill truth – you cannot negotiate genuine desire.
He wants her to want him, he wants her to desire sex with him with the same verve and enthusiasm she did with other men in her videos. He wants her sexual best, but her 7 years of unwillingness to give him that while enjoying the benefits of his provisioning, his patience, love and perseverance only puts her strategy, the Hypergamic strategy, into perfect focus. Her genuine desire, her sexual best was never intended for him in the first place.
December 4th, 2013 at 10:42 am
Jack Schitz
December 3rd, 2013 at 4:15 pm
Not a smart move. This whore is still his daughter’s mother. Wouldn’t want to do that to my kid.
December 4th, 2013 at 10:46 am
@swiftfoxmark2
He was led to believe that she loved him. He was led to believe that she simply couldn’t stomach (swallow?) those extra activities that he wanted to do, but still loved him regardless. He then discovered a video that she kept around for years, even during their marriage, that showed she was willing to do these other things with near strangers, if not total strangers. How can you possibly continue under those circumstances? I hear what you’re saying. He could just be alpha and disregard her feelings entirely, but that is not the life he committed to. That is not the life she led him to believe he was getting. That would be an entirely different relationship than the one she fraudulently enabled.
December 4th, 2013 at 10:54 am
@Shaman
Most newer porn types are based on some kind of eroticized shame. Cuckold porn is just one among probably hundreds of types that could be directly linked to 3rd gen feminism shaming natural masculinity.
The hilarious thing about it all is that while all this expression of shamed masculinity is coming out… women’s biggest beef with porn is the “objectification of women”. But if actually know porn, in most porn ever made, the woman is usually shown head-to-butt in frame, she’s usually front-and-center and the center of the action. In contrast, the man is usually represented only by his genitalia, the rest of him being off-frame. So, who exactly is being objectified? The woman whose usually beautiful body takes up most of the frame, who is at least represented as a whole human being, or the man who is reduced to a faceless cock, and might as well be fake?
December 4th, 2013 at 10:57 am
Then it seems the fastest way to hell for a man is through a woman.
December 4th, 2013 at 11:03 am
The argument Susan Walsh and like minded women often make is usually something like this:
“Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that you guys were fed a load of BS. But come on, guys! You lived in the real world! You were getting rejected and saw the bad boys and the dickbags getting laid left and right! How come you didn’t figure it out?
“You should have ignored everything everyone else was telling you. You should have defied your parents and told them to piss up a rope. You should have deliberately disobeyed the authority figures in your life. But hey. You fucked up, you trusted them. You actually believed what they were telling you,
“Despite the fact that you were young, impressionable, inexperienced and with no power to change any of it, you should have done so. You should have changed it. You should have bucked everything around you, all by yourself, with no help or guidance or instruction from anyone. You should have defied and disobeyed everyone around you, even on pain of severe penalty and retribution from them.
“You didn’t, and so you made a poor choice.
Deti,
It just dawned on me that the process as you explained it which I think is absolutely accurate (we are similar ages having grown up in the same cultural backdrop) is basically equivalent to gaslighting. I think at a certain age it is damn near impossible to make sense of something when what you think you are observing as reality is at complete odds with a message that is being delivered repeatedly from all different directions and sources of “authority”. This is why I am so passionate about spreading Red Pill truths and feel revulsion towards those who would continue to propagate lies.
December 4th, 2013 at 11:32 am
“I think at a certain age it is damn near impossible to make sense of something when what you think you are observing as reality is at complete odds with a message that is being delivered repeatedly from all different directions and sources of “authority”.”
Yes, exactly. Because what you are seeing is something you have no real world experience with until it happens. Then you have your parents and “authorities” telling you that what you’re seeing is not really what you’re seeing; but instead is something else entirely: “Those girls are just stupid.” “You’re obviously not being nice enough.” You also have “authorities” telling you that if you so much as look at some girl for a few seconds too long, that’s sexual harassment and you’ll get kicked out of school; lose your job, face criminal sanctions, etc.
December 4th, 2013 at 11:40 am
I am actually shocked at how many posters here are talking about fixing it for two simple reasons….
1. For the marriage.
2. For the child.
Number one is just bunk. Marriage doesn’t mean $hit anymore. Wives get married at 30 when they are done wh0ring around, divorce 50% of the time and men get cleaned out.
Now tell me, why should a man have to sacrifice and pay the bill due for the awful decisions made by a wh0re, all for the sake of “marriage”? Seriously? Listen up fellas, society doesn’t respect marriage, women don’t respect marriage, and YOU should not respect marriage. It is only a tool used to extract everything possible from a man’s sense of “honor”. Stop being fools and wake up.
2. Now this one I could believe, but children are smart and perceptive. His daughter will know that the marriage is loveless. Better to have two households where at least one is not toxic, than to have one toxic household to live in.
He needs to do what is right for him and walk away so he can salvage the remainder of his life.
She made all of these mistakes, and her concession is to ask HIM to sacrifice as a result of it. W.T.F.
December 4th, 2013 at 11:42 am
@Morpheus:
“The “good guys” are capable of “emotional intimacy”. What becomes clear though is she is absolutely clueless what this means from a male perspective in terms of expectations. Emotional intimacy is a one-way street flowing from the guy to the woman.”
Blue pill/HUS “emotional intimacy” appears to mean
“he gives me what I want and he just knows what I want and need when I want and need it”.
“whatever I want it to mean at that moment in time”.
See, this I think is what Badger and others mean when they talk about how feminism and the current SMP and MMP have left most men deeply, deeply confused about how to get what they want while simultaneously “doing their part” in a one-on-one relationship. Most men are deeply confused about everything – sex roles, how to comport themselves in relationships, what a relationship is, female sexual desire, EVERYTHING.
All the more reason for men to pursue their own wants and needs, and chuck everything else out the window.
December 4th, 2013 at 11:45 am
When you think about it, isn’t all porn really ‘cuckold’ porn?
December 4th, 2013 at 11:51 am
Well, some porn is pure animation, not sure how I could squeeze that into being cuckold since the “actors” don’t exist.
December 4th, 2013 at 11:53 am
@Deti, in other words, you didn’t “Just Get It”
http://therationalmale.com/2012/08/22/just-get-it/
December 4th, 2013 at 11:59 am
Recently the Canadian newspaper National Post asked readers to send letters on the topic: What invention has benefited you the most? Most were obvious like the printing press, airplanes, the Internet, flush toilets etc. Here is a slightly different one:
“The world as learned more in the past 10 years about female sexuality than in the previous 10,000 due to the complementary metal-oxide-semiconductor (CMOS) technology found in cameras and cell phones. Without it, we would all be back in the dark ages where women were as mysterious as the stars.”
This was printed in one of Canada’s two national newspapers!
December 4th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
I went through nearly the same shit that man did, and I can feel the intense pain he’s going through. Same thing, wife very cold and withheld sex, but she did have multiple affairs at the end of the marriage. It’s a bitter pill to swallow when you realize you were a sucker beta provider. I quickly hired an attorney, divorced her, and have joint custody. I came out OK on the settlement, too. Learned some game, and I’m now enjoying bachelorhood.
This is what would happen if he tried to work it out – He would hold in that anger and it would eat him up from the inside, probably manifesting in a health problem. They would go to counseling until he formally forgave her, and then the forgiveness would be used against him from that point forward. Oh, and she would only be with him to secure provisioning while she plans for divorce on her terms, and/or secures the next provider.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:07 pm
That’s why people married early before, and by early I mean not after teens. Human beings feel the urge to mate since very young (is an hypocrisy to ignore it). And by marrying young we were forced to mature and develop our abilities to survive. A way better way to grow compared to the common traumatic lifes of the pregnant teenagers. Thats how financial empires were build, from a solid family working together, the their children inherit it and continue to build it through generations of work and emotional stability (and thats one of the reason ‘you-know-who’ invest so much in the destruction of women, and throught it the destruction of family).
And that’s why the elders choose who would marry with who. Exclude some marriages for interest for those who were rich, most parents choose only the best consorts possible for their children because they LOVED them. They could not be the most handsome/pretty, but most of them were good people from friendly families, who would stuck with you for the best and worse. And love would grow from there, from sharing the efforts to constroy a family and feed it together.
It creeps me out to think it could have been my future son in this position or my future daugther causing it.
Let’s pray those kids future is brighter than ours.
Good luck!
December 4th, 2013 at 12:14 pm
Do you fellows fall for every hoax, or just the sex fantasies in which you detect a potential “teaching moment”?
This “confession” screams cuckold slutwife sex fantasy. The woman’s psychology is inconsistent and sounds like it was fabricated by a man who has watched too much porn. The kind of woman who would subject herself to a videotaped gang bang, while seemingly common to a certain species of internet denizen addicted to prurience, is actually a deeply disturbed and rare female. You skip over probabilities in haste to make your academic points about the nature of women.
He “stumbled” upon her video after seven years? She betrayed absolutely no signs of her extreme, abject depravity for that entire time but rather erased it from her psyche altogether and, in fact, somehow achieved the absolute opposite: unhealthy marital prudishness? This only happens on porn sets and in fapper fantasies. And if it ever were to happen in real life, it would be so anomalous that it would be an exception proving the rule.
Who has had experiences like Mr. Reddit Fabulist had? How many men have you spoken to with anything close to a similar real-life circumstance? Do not believe everything you read on the internet.
Not convinced? Okay. Grant that the entire story is genuine. Now imagine these people as they truly are. They are Maury Povich/Jerry Springer white trash. The woman is ugly, the man is a loser. The videotape is not HD porn, it’s a fuzzy videotaped melange of fat people, runaway pubic hair, and oily sleaze. Those are the kind of people who do those kinds of things.
If you don’t believe me, go to any nudist colony or look at any swinger couple. Look at the porn stars of the 70s-90s — before the advent of ubiquitous video — were there any genuinely pretty ones who had alternatives?
Beautiful — and even average — people do not have to deprave themselves to get sexual satisfaction, whereas the dregs of sexual value are forced to make up for their physical deficiencies with an openness to extreme acts. The only place where normal-to-beautiful people do this in real life is, again, in the porn industry. Because they are paid.
Look, I understand your community enthusiasm when a story emerges to prove your philosophy by example. In journalism they call this a story “too good to check” for facts. Your rush to draw conclusions makes sense. But a moment’s reflection would have made you realize the improbabilities.
And as if to put an exclamation point on his bullshit, he concludes by saying, “I am considering proposing to her the idea of an open marriage.” The very last thing on the mind of a man truly devastated by the precipitous collapse of his family would have been the “fulfilling sex lives” of either of them — especially hers! — since that was the death blow to their marriage in the first place. Unless, of course, the whole point was for a cuckold to sublimate his fantasy into plausible sounding psychology for the consumption of the gullible and quick-skimming.
Matt
December 4th, 2013 at 12:16 pm
Good morning Roe, I did respond to your last night’s post before I left my desk, but my computer had a meltdown in the process of uploading it. Too bad, it was good (I thought so anyway)…
Anyway, the gist of it was, yes, it is completely counter-intuitive, you’re absolutely right. There’s nothing intuitive about that response at all, but there is nothing rational really, at all, about the operation of the human psyche under duress. But that’s my point exactly. I’m adamant that most women/girls really need a large amount of psychiatric assistance, because they really don’t know how to appropriately handle the massive number of conflicting inputs.
But a lifetime of therapy wont do any good until a woman’s virginity is not considered to be a man’s property right, which, if this forum is any indication, does not appear to be on the horizon. Shame, that, because virtually every problem in the modern world stems from that belief (the subject of yet another article of mine…)
And please, I hope that you don’t think that I meant to exonerate this woman from her fault. That was never my intention. The lie was unfair, and I would never back up a woman who did that. I just always make a point to think about the possible reasons for people’s behavior, it allows for me to have both empathy and objectivity, not to justify it, but to understand it and learn from it.
(I can hear the scoffing and eye rolling from here).
And you’re absolutely right on your second point too, there is definitely cultural pressure that likely caused him to think he should subvert his own needs to please her. I do understand that passivity is a trait that we cultivate far too much. The guy in this tale is definitely a “victim” of it. I’m not a fan of passivity, for anyone, in any instance. I just don’t happen to agree that the only alternative to passivity is dominance.
But I still don’t think that the “victims” don’t have at least some responsibility for their actions. (and yes, I also think the same about date-rape victims).
December 4th, 2013 at 12:17 pm
Yet you get all these people saying there’s nothing wrong with her behavior and telling him to man up.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Lol, busted. This is the most dramatic, most horrifying, hilarious and tragic busted story ever. Loving all the manginas immediately calling her actions a result of rape or sexual abuse. Even when she never mentioned any rape or abuse herself (and kept the rape tape around). Don’t worry, regretful liars, even if you forget to accuse someone of rape, the caring manginas will do it for you.
Also, funny how livingtree was berating the guy in capslock and the culture the most, while criticism of the wife is more like an afterthought.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:23 pm
@Matt
Actually, no, you’re wrong. It happens all the time. There are multiple women I know personally who have extraordinarily depraved sex lives from when they were younger (probably worse than I know about), and their current husband/co-habitation partner has absolutely no idea. One of these women still insists on having breakfast with me (no, not that kind of wake up meal) every 9/80 Friday morning. Her partner, the father of her kids probably has no idea that she even does this. I presume she does this because she knows she would rather have not chosen a beta with no career and no income to be the father of her kids. She’s alpha pining, and I never even did the deed with her, lol.
Women are absolutely able to pretend that what happened when they were young doesn’t “matter” and is not their partners business as a result.
This specific story may be bullshit, but the reality is this sort of thing actually does happen.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
The only way to save a marriage like this is to completely destroy the marriage that existed before, and rebuild it from the ground up. A few caveats:
1. She has to agree to every condition you set, without fail and without even the slightest deviation. This is nonnegotiable.
2. Sex on demand. Also nonnegotiable.
3. It requires constant vigilance. You have to absolutely crush disrespect. You have to be willing and able to run some decent asshole game; and graduate to full on Dread if necessary.
4. Forget about the niceguy, relaxation you used to have in your marriage before. It won’t work, it’s gone, and it wasn’t real anyway. You must clear your eyes and head about any illusions you had about marriage. The kind of marriage you wanted or thought you had is gone, and you’ll never, ever have that.
5. It might not work. You still might get divorced. If that happens, be ready to go to war.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:33 pm
@ Matt King,
None of us can be certain about the veracity of the story. That said, I don’t think your reasoning that it is an “obvious” fake has any validity. I’d point you to this post from Badger:
http://badgerhut.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/unbelievable/
Danger&Play recently posted a fantastic tweet that mirrored the subtext of some of his game-centric posts:
“At some point in the game, your stories shouldn’t even sound believable to regular people. That’s how awesome being alive today is.”
I’ve had a couple of game-oriented friends whose exploits were really unbelievable, and I wouldn’t have bought it had I not been there or seen photos.
I bounced for awhile many years back. I saw stuff and knew of stuff I never would have believed prior to bouncing. I’d bet a number of C notes that both Rollo and Yohami could tell us some pretty “unbelievable” stories that are completely true.
I believe there is a very primal aspect to female sexuality that under the right circumstances can be unleashed. Probably some alchohol to loosen inhibitions, then you just need the right frame, context, and guys possessing the right mix of dominance and short-term sexy traits, and then I think one would be shocked at the percentage of women who once in that situation will throw caution to the wind, and do just about anything. I know multiple guys who have shared stories with me that sort of all corroborate this basic fact. I think women properly raised in good homes with strong father figures have the necessary ingredients to fight off certain instincts, and also know how to prevent themselves from ever getting in certain situations in the first place.
The story may be false, but there is absolutely nothing about it that rings obviously false. Anyone who has seen behind the curtain knows stuff like this does in fact happen, and not just amongst the fat and ugly crowd.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:39 pm
I’ve personally counseled at least 4 men IRL and 3 online relating almost identical variations of this story.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:43 pm
Matt King:
Sorry, I’m with Jeremy, Morpheus and Yohami on this one. The story might be embellished, but I can tell you that similar things like this happen all the time. I know it first hand, as anyone familiar with my commentary can attest. My wife lied about her N before we married and became a sexual prude. The exchanges we had about those discussions went down in similar fashion:
-truth emerges
-confrontation
-confession
-rationalization, justification, explanation
–“don’t you judge me” “you did it too” “It’s in the past it doesn’t matter”
-crying, weeping, begging, pleading “I’ll do whatever you want”
-decision made to end marriage or attempt salvaging it
-destruction of prior marriage dynamic with new, Game-based dynamic
December 4th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
@Deti,
Sure, it *could* be saved if all those things were done. But the average blue-balled, blue-pilled beta male is not in the right state of mind to even conceive of how those things help him. It has to be better to blow up the marriage, take the lumps, learn the hard lessons, and find something better.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:52 pm
Jeremy:
Only reason to do any of that stuff I listed above is if kids are involved. There is in this situation.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:53 pm
@Rollo Tomassi
Sounds like you’ve got quite a collection of cuckold porn stacking up there…
December 4th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
@Jeremy
I didn’t mean for him to disregard her feelings. He did that already. I’m saying he needs to disregard his own and stop whining. Sure, he has every right to mourn the past seven years of his life he’s wasted with this prudish whore, but mourning is process that can be done with in a few days.
After that, he needs to take action and either make his marriage better or, if she has been cheating on him, end it quickly. I suspect, though, that she hasn’t cheated on him at all in those seven years.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:54 pm
@Matt,
http://therationalmale.com/2013/03/19/quality-women/
This call-in your sexual past theme was such a success Leykis repeated it at least once a year on his terrestrial show and again since he came online.
I’ll see if I can track down one of these podcast episodes.
December 4th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
[…] My new book is a textbook. Every page offers specific actionable advice for what to say and do while interacting with a woman you’re trying to seduce. To adequately convey this advice I need to bring my poor reader up to speed on key concepts and mindsets so I’ve been writing little “box out” sections as tangents to the body of the text. During my chapter on “daygame is dirty” I go into detail about the female’s dualist sexual strategy: […]
December 4th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
“I believe there is a very primal aspect to female sexuality that under the right circumstances can be unleashed.”
Yes there is. I’ve long said: Right man, right time, right circumstances, low risk of detection, and many married women will cheat. I’ve heard too many stories from bartenders and bouncers talking about seeing married women slut it up at bars on girls nights out to believe otherwise. I’ve seen too many married women sloshed on rum and Cokes and hanging all over some old flame at a high school reunion to believe otherwise. I’ve heard too many women confess to partner counts north of 20 to believe otherwise.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:00 pm
@swiftfoxmark2
This is like saying that because you’ve never seen an alcoholic drink in public for 7 years, that they’ve never had a drop in that span. Most alcoholics are experts at hiding their problem, and remaining functional despite their issue. Can you honestly say you suspect this woman has not cheated on him just because she hasn’t been putting out for him? Isn’t that like saying, “Well shit, this house is dry, there’s no way that alchy has been drinking whisky!”
December 4th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
@Jeremy
“women’s biggest beef with porn is the “objectification of women”. But if actually know porn, in most porn ever made, the woman is usually shown head-to-butt in frame, she’s usually front-and-center and the center of the action. In contrast, the man is usually represented only by his genitalia, the rest of him being off-frame. So, who exactly is being objectified?”
The book “A Billion Wicked Thoughts: What the Internet Tells Us About Sexual Relationships” has an interesting treatment of this phenomena. The researchers concluded that men’s sexual arousal is primarily visual and women’s is primarily mental — so we really are interested in looking at tits, ass and female genitalia…
Women, not so much. They don’t really care about looking at naked men, cocks, balls, etc, but are far more sexually aroused based on elaborate scenarios — hence the explosion of “chick porn” (romance novels), that, by the way, rake in far more revenue than online porn according to the book.
Where it gets really interesting though is **what** scenarios are most prevalent in chick porn. Care to guess?
According to the authors, it’s rape fantasies… Women being overwhelmed and having their clothes torn off by some sweaty, swarthy pirate-type who takes them against their will ties them to the mast as the rest of the ogling shipmates look on and has his way with her. It’s a theme that shows up over and over again.
If you ever needed overwhelming evidence that women aren’t turned on by a supplicating beta in the bedroom (or anywhere else for that matter), but would rather be dominated, overwhelmed and forced to surrender, just look at what they’re reading.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:11 pm
Let’s drill down into this…
I want to hear some theories on WHY the woman in the story enjoyed being a “filthy whore” so much…
“In the video she has anal sex, oral sex, gets double teamed, and yells multiple times in the video she is a “I am a filthy whore.” All of it she was enthusiastic about it.”
-OP
“As f-ed up as it sounds, if he had slapped her during that conversation, he might have started the tinglings of the attraction that he never aroused in her before”
-Jeremy
“If he wants a whore for a wife, maybe he just has to start treating her like one”
-tank
“,..and in other news 5-way gang-bang bukkake double-penetration amateur video pornography has just been codified as a “Sexual Need” by Femipedia”
-Rollo
“Almost certainly, it’s just the tip of the iceberg.”
-deti
Is it a Sperm Wars thing? Are we looking at a situation where, when provisioning is plentiful and basic needs are easily met (therefore women don’t have to latch on to one guy to survive), Mother Nature’s strategy switches to getting filled with as much semen as possible (and letting the sperm duke it out inside her on the way to the egg)? Extra bonus that semen contains serotonin so she gets high?
Or is it something else? Clearly, there are pathogenic (STD) risks to that strategy…
“Being a gangbanged slut still has grave consequences…”
-earl
Why is there so often the accompanying desire to be disrespected/defiled? Even including violence?
The consensus here seems to be that deep down, it exists to some degree in all women. And it’s clearly showing up more and more, even as the veneer of our society appears to be headed in the other direction (i.e. women are outwardly seizing more and more control).
In other words, the Red Pill does a great job of explaining why, on some level, all women loathe the Nice Guy who’s intelligent, diligent, and productive, but pedestalizes them and can’t seem to speak up for what he wants.
But why, as it appears, do the same women, on some level or at some point in their lives, want to be treated as – and think of themselves as – filthy whores?
December 4th, 2013 at 1:17 pm
Jeremy. I thought long and hard about your statement last night, and after much deliberation I think this IS where we come to the philosophical impasse.
“Would you ever stick with a man who would not provide for you even after you shared your bed with him regularly? Of course you wouldn’t.” A statement founded in several incorrect assumptions.
Yes actually. I would. Because in the modern world, I am not trading sex for food. We both get sex, we both get food, and we both get a whole lot more too, and with neither of us laboring under the burden of being indebted, we both are free.
“Food for sex” may be the marriage trade for you, and maybe for the very conservative and fundamentalist folks among you, but this is exactly where we diverge. I just would never think of myself, the product of my uterus, or my husband, or his resources, as a trade-able commodity. That’s just how I roll.
Its no coincidence that the majority of those opposed to women’s reproductive freedom are conservative, christian, anti-marxist, and the most ardent opponents of any sort of communal responsibility. These beliefs are all directly tied together, around the construct of property rights, and all of them stem from the right of paternity and patrilineage.
A woman’s prized virginity is really about men’s need for paternity, and paternity is a property right. As you said yourself, it is the “greatest gift you can give a man,” which is a male-established, moral assumption, founded not in natural law but in the need to have the right of parent-ownership. Paternity (and maternity too, if you really want to know what I think) is a purely artificial construct created for the legal purpose of property transfer.
It really saddens me that there are still so many people who see themselves, and their prospective spouses and children, as possessions that you have rights of entitlement over.
We discussed this in our last talk, unsuccessfully, because you cast many unfounded assumptions upon me about what you think I believe. So defending the rest of this is pointless effort wasted, unless we reconcile this one point.
I’m not even going to counter the points you made about lying, or about fraud, because I’ve already answered them MULTIPLE times here. If you need to read something into them that I didn’t say, that is your choice to make.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:28 pm
But why, as it appears, do the same women, on some level or at some point in their lives, want to be treated as – and think of themselves as – filthy whores?
For some reason, people can’t seem to grasp that just because a woman’s triggers are different than a man’s, that she wouldn’t want nasty, dirty, swarthy, slimy sexual experiences just like men do.
At some level, and I’ll have to study it out to find if my theory is true, I suspect it has something to do with the pedestalization of European females in the West. That women in general, but white women in particular, at some point got presented as pristine, “innocent,” naive creatures with no sexual thoughts, drives, or desires and people en masse accepted this image. This ridiculous idea that us men were the only ones with nasty, pornographic thoughts.
So the Red Pill effect of making men realize what has actually always been true….that women have a feral sexuality that they long to unleash….seems shocking to some. But that truth has always been self-evident; if you give a woman that right context, she will screw up such a storm until the men will be exhausted and she’ll be begging for more.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:35 pm
So, RPSMF, do you see it as a psychological desire for balance? They get sick or bored of being held up on high?
Or do you see it as a corporeal, animal urge that must out, and the more and longer it’s pent up, the dirtier it’s gonna be?
December 4th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
@Jeremy
The primary reason I suspect that she hasn’t cheated on him is because of her behavior during her marriage toward her husband. To her, her husband was her meal ticket essentially. While I agree that people often do irrational things against their best interests, in her case, I think she didn’t cheat on him during the marriage because she knew it would jeopardize her meal ticket. Women are very good at weighing the benefits of marriage against being single and/or divorced.
This is largely why the high divorce rates in the United States can be attributed to women as they are ones who are more likely to initiate it. They know that if it is more economical for them to leave their beta provider and re-ride the carousel, they would take that chance in a heartbeat baring any internal moral opposition.
Women can be very rational and deliberate in their actions when it comes to marriage. The woman in this story would have more likely married an Alpha back in the day when men were expected to marry and reproduce. Instead, she yearned for more than just the orgies and so she sacrificed a bit of her sexual energy in order get her meal ticket.
Still, I do think a paternity test is in order for his daughter, though it wouldn’t do much good in family courts. They have a tendency to ignore reality.
Women like this are the reason I support polygyny, despite my faith. At least with multiple wives, a situation like this is a minor annoyance and not a total marriage meltdown.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:42 pm
D-man:
I agree mostly with RPSMF and Morpheus’ characterizations. Women want dick. They want a masculine man to fuck them silly without apology or excuse.
I see this as a manifestation of what I call the female prime directive, which is in turn a subpart of Rollo’s Feminine Imperative.
The female prime directive is to secure alpha seed from the best, highest quality man (men) possible so as to get pregnant and have as many strong, healthy babies as possible.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:46 pm
So, RPSMF, do you see it as a psychological desire for balance? They get sick or bored of being held up on high?
No, sexual drives don’t originate from a desire for balance…but from a strong sense of need. Release, or impregnation, or attention, or domination, whatever the case may be. I do know that women get tired of being pedestalized, yes, because that’s a denial of their basic humanity.
They want to get off sexually just like men do, but fueled by more reasons than physical need.
Or do you see it as a corporeal, animal urge that must out, and the more and longer it’s pent up, the dirtier it’s gonna be?
Moreso this, but it’s still not the same as a man’s, because a woman can go her whole life with dreaming about releasing her inner slut, but never actually doing it. That’s not nearly as true for men.
However forty years of feminism and twenty years of YouGoGrrrl culture have finally created the climate that women needed to live out their fantasies, and with the rise of ubiquitous camera technology and social networks, they can no longer deny that most of them want to be porn stars on some level. I go into more detail about the forces that rage inside of women here: http://redpillpushers.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/quell-her-inner-war/
December 4th, 2013 at 1:52 pm
Hey Rollo, that article you wrote about ASD – totally spot on. I was expecting it to be full of typical feminist-blaming bullshit, but I think you at the very least delved into how messy the sexual landscape is for many women, and how not worth it it is for men to get into that sort of mess. I’d almost say that by posting this link as your response, you actually are, perhaps without realizing it, agreeing with the points I made earlier! I’m sure you’ll deny that though, and that’s OK. I get it.
Look, just because I don’t play the “aww, poor thing” sympathy routine that you guys seem to want, doesn’t mean I don’t feel some sympathy for you having to maneuver the feminine landscape.
THAT is what makes it harder for us than men – men don’t carry that baggage, (even though they created most of it). Women, for some reason, feel like they have to pick it up and carry it around with them everywhere they go, instead of leaving it at the curb where it belongs.
December 4th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
If all women are game aware and a logical conclusion of game is that marriage is a no-upside proposition for men then do all women think less of married men? When proposed to do women have the thought in the back of their head: “this guy is not as clever as I thought he was.”
And shit, on the other end of it do men who leave their wives get a bump in feminine SMP valuation? The most effective pickup line I’ve ever used in my life was on the day I left my wife. I said “This morning I left my crazy bitch of a wife and hired a divorce attorney”, and was promptly sucked off in the front seat of my car outside the bar.
(for the record my ex-wife may be crazy but in retrospect it was me who lost my alpha edge in the marriage and pushed her into being a bitch towards me)
December 4th, 2013 at 2:01 pm
Thanks, keep em coming…
I agree that Western women have been over-pedestalized, and bottling up the more feral aspects of their nature is leading to some dramatic de-pressurizations.
But I’m interested in how it plays out INTERNALLY within each woman. I mean, aside from the basic psychological dynamic of putting someone in a room with a red button and a sign that says: DO NOT PRESS THE RED BUTTON. A woman who asks to be treated like a filthy, worthless whore is pressing that red button that’s been sitting in front of her all her life.
Here’s a thought:
I think that during their childbearing years, women’s most powerful desire is TO BE DESIRED. To be the object of desire itself. To embody the essence of value.
This explains rape fantasies. The thought that a guy she wants finds her so desirable that he can’t control himself is preferable to the thought that he doesn’t care, and far preferable to him being disgusted by her. It also explains why she hates a beta who’s more interested in his work, and hates him even more when he “wants her to want him”. That’s him acting like a woman.
It’s about value. If five guys line up to bang a girl (and a thousand watch it on the net), she may, by twisted logic, feel desired. If she is being de-valued, that means she has value. She’s at the center of the action.
If nobody notices her or cares, she’s invisible, worthless.
When children need attention to validate their very existence, they will do destructive things to get what they need.
December 4th, 2013 at 2:05 pm
As an aside…
“The female prime directive is to … have as many strong, healthy babies as possible.”
If this is true, the modern woman is fucking up bigtime. I know of many couples who’ve waited until their late thirties to “start trying”, and are shocked and depressed that it doesn’t seem to be working…
December 4th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
Ahh, RPSMF, I just went to your article, I see we’ve arrived at the same observation:
“She has one force that is her desire to be desired.”
…I’ll keep reading…
December 4th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
Morpheus, how exactly do you see that I am “demonizing” anything said here by Rollo? Where? When? What I have REPEATEDLY SAID here is that I agree with most of what is being discussed here. I’m not quite prepared yet to accept the belief that women could eliminate all their own problems if they would just stop sucking, but it certainly wouldn’t be a bad place to start. Hey, why not give it a try? I advocate for it daily in my own life, just so you know.
I know you guys don’t like to hear a woman make excuses for women’s bad behavior while blaming men, and though you do like to accuse me of it a lot, I don’t think that is, anywhere, at any time here, something I’ve done. I’m pretty sure if you read my comments objectively, you will see a general commonality, and that is that both men and women have lost their way in this world.
The reasons for that will forever be debatable, but the end result is the same: the majority of us are not happy with our sexual relationships. SO, exactly why are we not working on fixing it instead of blaming each other?
December 4th, 2013 at 2:19 pm
If all women are game aware and a logical conclusion of game is that marriage is a no-upside proposition for men then do all women think less of married men?
In a word, yes.
When proposed to do women have the thought in the back of their head: “this guy is not as clever as I thought he was.”
Again: yes.
And shit, on the other end of it do men who leave their wives get a bump in feminine SMP valuation? The most effective pickup line I’ve ever used in my life was on the day I left my wife. I said “This morning I left my crazy bitch of a wife and hired a divorce attorney”, and was promptly sucked off in the front seat of my car outside the bar.
What males have to do is Red Pill it and accept the truth; women were made to be submissive. They long to be conquered and dominated their entire lives, and they have the built-in trait of sh*t testing to find out which man is worthy of her favors.
It’s counter intuitive for men, that’s why so many men struggle with it. But her psychology runs like this:
“If you ignore me, don’t need me, are self-sufficient, and slap me around, verbally, physically, and emotionally, it means you are strong enough to deserve to have your seed continue, and thus can have all the sex you want.
If you chase me, long for me, give in to my every whim, build your life around pleasing me, and worship me, I will take every possible advantage of you that I can, and drain your resources, but I will never stop looking or longing for a man that can dominate me. Without remorse or apology.”
If men would just accept this, and accept that they have to step up to it to get laid, their lives would be easier.
And, again….a man has to give up his fantasy of being able to rest with a woman. The only woman you can rest with is your mother, and even she will lose respect for you if you need her too long, even though she’ll still help you while she’s calling you a wimp.
December 4th, 2013 at 2:24 pm
Deti:“The female prime directive is to … have as many strong, healthy babies as possible.”
D-man: “If this is true, the modern woman is fucking up bigtime.”
No she’s not. The imperative is to secure the seed in the first instance. The single woman slutting around with the most attractive men she can find still wants the hot alpha man to have sex with; but intentionally thwarts the impregnation part of it. There are many reasons for this: Choice addiction; not wanting to commit; wanting to be a strongindependentwoman ™; etc. Yes, the end result is supposed to be pregnancy. But the way it manifests today is most women having the sex while forgoing the pregnancy part until she can’t deny the urge any longer.
December 4th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
@RPSMF, listen:
December 4th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
“I found a video of my wife being fucked by 5 guys.”
Life shattering, right?
“I ended up feeling really sad.”
Really sad? That’s how you describe it?
“I don’t remember all the details of the conversation, so I’ll try my best to sum it up. I was drinking a bit before she came which wasn’t the best idea.”
That’s damn convenient, the guy was drunk so, please, if it doesn’t make sense, that’s perfectly fine.
“My father has recently has been diagnosed with a tumor in his lung, and that has already been stressing me out pretty badly.”
Yeah, my father has a tumor in his lung, so I’m a bit “stressed out” right now, you know.
What a load of bullshit.
December 4th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
@Rollo ..is it twisted the increase in cuk porn ..yes in some respects. Is it sad most definitely. Remember you sent us the post about ” Blue Valentine” the movie? The scenario is a bit different however the bottom line is the same ..walk away.
@redpill
I’m gonna write that down what you posted because the entire manosphere awareness , SS forums , Rollo, s book and blog …it is entierally condensed in those 2 paragraphs. After a man comes to the arrival of red pill awareness let it be SOP for well being ..if your alone let Freedom be your Mistress
December 4th, 2013 at 2:38 pm
@Rollo
Spot. On.
December 4th, 2013 at 2:44 pm
@LivingTree2013 – The forum here has collectively exhausted this topic for insight, I think. I’ll offer some summarizing thoughts:
We can come at a topic like this from an “understanding” frame – where we talk about the biomechanics (women’s dual-mating strategy) and the culture milieu (slut-shaming), and this is a good way to understand the problem – but it does suggest the people involved have less agency and are more at the whim of forces beyond their ken or control.
We can also take a “responsibility” frame, where we take it as writ people have full agency, regardless of biomechanics or culture, and where we assign blame. The case here is pretty clear – *she* lied to her husband, and carelessly kept a videotape which she *knew* would emotionally devastate him should he find it. He entered into a relationship with someone with whom he wasn’t sexually compatible.
Moving on:
You said: “Paternity (and maternity too, if you really want to know what I think) is a purely artificial construct created for the legal purpose of property transfer.
It really saddens me that there are still so many people who see themselves, and their prospective spouses and children, as possessions that you have rights of entitlement over.”
Frankly, unless you can tell me you have children, which you leaned weren’t yours because of a hospital mix-up, and still felt that maternity was an “artificial construct”, I don’t believe you. I mean no offence by this, but I *strongly* disagree that the bond between parent & child is reducible to a cultural construct.
If you found out the base-rate of hospitals mixing up babies was 2% (about the base rate of cuckoldry – conservatively), you’d find yourself getting *real* selective about hospitals.
December 4th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
@LT
It’s good to know we at least agree where we disagree. Your problem here is, surprisingly because you declared yourself to be an economics major, that you associate trade-able commodity’s as somehow “evil”. You continue to associate a legitimate transaction between haves and have-nots as if it’s dirty. By what form of measurement is a transaction where a man and woman trade excess human reproductive capability for excess economics production not a win-win for both parties? By what perverted perspective is offering your uterus and vagina to a man in exchange for his physical sacrifice not an act worthy of praise?
I’ll answer that for you… from a Feminist’s perspective.
Feminists have declared the female body to be “hands off”, and the property of women alone. This is entirely in conflict with what a sexually dimorphic species needs, where the complementary biological capabilities of each sex is REQUIRED for survival of the species. From this perspective, yes, women are absolutely sacrificing some control over their body when they marry. See that, I just made a non-religious, scientifically valid argument for self-sacrifice from both sexes in order to propogate the species. Keep that in mind as I continue. The thing feminists don’t want to acknowledge is, men are doing just as much sacrificing of their own bodies to keep a family going.
So much wrong… but you don’t really follow that up with proof of your assertion…
Ah yes, the mythical patriarchy comes into play. It must be all those evil secretive male organizations that keep supporting property rights to keep these evil concepts going, right? It can’t be NATURE as I described before, but you failed to even consider. Of course it has to be all the absurd religion and conservative nonsense that keeps women needing to sacrifice something for their husbands, right? It can’t be biology, can it? Well can it?
LOL. Maternity is an artificial construct? Holy cow I’ve heard some absurd things in my day…
Contracts are like that, and marriage is a contract. Sorry but it’s just a fact. If I commit myself to a woman, I am committing myself to whatever comes her way, to stand by her. That is sacrifice on my part, and as a committed husband, I owe her that. Did you somehow think that there is no reciprocal sacrifice from the female side?
Pointing out logical fallacies is not “cast(ing) many unfounded assumptions”. How far are you in that college degree anyway?
December 4th, 2013 at 2:53 pm
One more thing, LT:
The expectations of me as a father (two daughters) is not characterized, even culturally, as consisting mostly of “rights”, but of “obligations” – as in, we’re (my wife & I) obligated to feed them, provide a healthy, secure and nurturing environment, &etc. This is as it should be – we chose to bring them into the world, they did not choose me as a father, so the obligations flow from me to them.
My “rights” are active involvement in their lives and security in the knowledge that I’m their biological father.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
@ Rollo
That song is going on my playlist. Good find…
The guy’s issue seems to be that he cares more about validation from her to meet his emotional neediness, than he cares about her compliance in meeting his tangible relationship requirements. Common “blue pill” brainwashed mistake in prioritizing “feelings” over “doings”. In contrast, the guys who escalated, elicited, and required that behavior of her in the video, without worrying about her validation, got her enthusiastic submission and participation – and her attraction too as a byproduct.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:10 pm
Roe, I never once had any baby/wedding fantasies as a young girl. I have my tubes tied. And I was adopted from birth. So its true, I do feel somewhat more philosophical about the maternal “parental-ownership” construct, which I think is largely an emotionally driven compulsion. I’m not in any way suggesting that
But nevermind me… I have nothing more to say here, I’m enjoying the dialogue going on now. The thing I’ve always found lacking in these articles is any discussion bout WHY women are so fucked up about sex…and they really are. Its incredibly important to understand it, for the good of the species, and I’m glad that you are getting into it.
I don’t think there’s a biological need for “alpha seed to make many healthy babies” or whatever, but everything else, you got it, 100%. Women are really bored with being on the pedestal, and so very many other things play into that fact.
OK, I’m being quiet now…
December 4th, 2013 at 3:12 pm
oops, missed finishing a sentence there… I’m not suggesting that there is no parent-child bond. Just that it doesn’t need to be the formative construct of our entire world.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
@Redhurricane…
“(for the record my ex-wife may be crazy but in retrospect it was me who lost my alpha edge in the marriage and pushed her into being a bitch towards me)”
That was me also. I’ve stated before, I become the Great American Beta Husband – and I’ve come to realize (after reading over the past year) that my (x)wife is probably the “quintessential” woman – almost every article/post I read is her to a T — and only became a problem once I became a BETA husband and a pure supplicant.
And as Deti and Morpheus were discussion – we (for the most part us older guys) have found this information AFTER our worlds fall apart.
And Matt – great to see you back! But regardless of this story being “real” or not, the situation is real. All you have to do is read through the forums at NMMNG or MMSL to see story after story after story – and this one is pretty tame in comparison to some of the stuff that has happened to other men. This guy’s story is sad, and he’s going to have hard time dealing with it – but what he saw was something from the past – there are guys telling their story about walking in on their wives doing things like this.
And Rollo is held to journalistic standards of excellence – especially sense even journalists are not held to those standards anymore. It’s easy to tweet “sorry” on a false story that creates tsumanic waves in the interwebs. So what standard of proof should Rollo hold up, in your opinion?
December 4th, 2013 at 3:17 pm
LT,
Its either a construct (void, meaningless, arbitrary) or an emotional driven compulsion (biological, true). Pick one, you dont make sense.
So you dont think women are sexually attracted to alpha men.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:21 pm
sacrifices and obligations:
man sacrifices his economic surplus. that’s his value.
woman sacrifices her body. that’s her value.
benefits:
man gets exclusive access to her body.
woman gets exclusive access to his resources.
This is why a man’s affairs piss off the woman: she sees resources that should be hers go to some other woman. Also I have known women who attempted to cut men off from their children of a previous marriage in order to get him to redirect his resources for her children’s exclusive use.
This is why paternity fraud is such a big deal. It’s one thing if a man voluntarily takes on a woman’s children from past relationships (though I don’t recommend that), it’s another thing entirely when she gets pregnant by someone outside of wedlock and gets him to support that child without his knowing the true paternity.
This is also why a woman who refuses sex too often has broken the marital contract as much as a woman who steps out on her husband. Either way, the man does not have exclusive access to her body.
Just as much as a man who refuses to get off the couch and find work to support his family has broken the marital contract. But there’s no demonizing women who don’t believe the “or poorer” part of their vows.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:23 pm
@Dr. Jeremy
… difficult to argue with this. Harder still when I consider your credentials. Makes me really pause and realize that there is no alternative to creating (and ensuring/demanding) attraction and proof of attraction first and foremost.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Ah Jeremy, you just explained why I’ve never wanted to marry.
I have no such thoughts about trade, I am a capitalist through and through.
I just don’t think my body is a tradeable commodity. If I did, I would be inclined to marry, or become a prostitute, which is what marriage by your definition, is, and why I’ll have none of it. And though I can’t recall now which one it was, I believe even your hero Rollo has written articles saying as much.
I know, crazy feminists, right.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:31 pm
And now I’ve got one more comment…then I really need to get back to making money…
A woman’s mission is CHANGE the man she chooses (call it whatever you want, but it is her choosing – because we bash them over the head and cart them off to our cave anymore – we choose who we approach and then commit to)
A Man’s mission is NOT CHANGE for that woman (because if you change, she will no longer want you, and will choose another)
That simple rule is not taught with enough emphasis, at least it wasn’t taught to me with enough emphasis. My mom didn’t change my dad – she tried, but it never happened. That’s why they remained married until he died. It was right in front of me, but I didn’t recognize them.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:33 pm
Quiet woman, men are speaking.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
@livingtree2013
So, now you agree with me about the marriage contract, and use that agreement as an example of why you don’t marry… But I’m still entirely wrong, and all my explanations of biological inclinations for why the marriage deal is the way it is have to do with my extreme conservatism and religiousity? So, all marriage, throughout time, was an evil construct of the patriarchy?
Incidentally, if you can’t see the way men also prostitute themselves in the corporate world to support their families, you are blind.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:36 pm
@Rollo….Quiet woman, men are speaking.
^^^THIS^^^
To the kitchen with you, the Men are going to the parlor to talk.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:41 pm
Not what I’m saying at all Yohami. Many women (though not all, definitely not all) are attracted to alpha men, I just doubt that it has much to do with impregnation. Maybe at a subliminal level, but I think its really more about the shame factor.
And also, truth be known, they’re funner in bed.
Honestly, if women could just be OK with enjoying sex, even outside of the bounds of marriage, egads!… if they weren’t so messed up over being innundated constantly with so many conflicting messages, scandalized or worshipped or glamorized or “proprietized” over their sexuality (ya I made that word up) you’d probably find your relationships would be so much healthier and more respectful.
And by “artificial construct” I mean in the legal sense, as all laws are artificial constructs – though not always arbitrary. Again, not saying that as an artificial construct, that it is meaningless. Just that having right of possession (or obligation) is not a natural right, it is a man-made construct. In the case of maternity/paternity, we’ve taken a purely emotional response, and made it into some kind of legal construct, intended to be upheld by the property rights theory.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
Here’s a fun study I’d like to perform.
I want to survey highschool boys and correlate their sexual frequency with their parenting situation. From my highschool days I would guess that the boys raised by single fathers get laid the least, and the boys raised by single mothers get laid the most, with two parent boys somewhere in the middle.
If (and it’s still if) that holds I would forward and explanation. Every boy’s first role model is his father. Single dad’s are overwhelmingly extreme betas. And single mothers usually end up that way by fucking a big bad alpha with better things (and women) to do than stick around to raise a kid. Two parent households have more variation but probably the average man in that situation fall somewhere in the middle.
Way before we’re old enough to analytically approach game we do just what our fathers did to make us.
I think every man should take a hard look at his sexual history and ask if he’s been improving himself and doing better, or if he’s just kept pressing the same button with the same result.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:48 pm
@ Jeremy
Both my personal and professional experience has led me to the conclusion that most modern people will take the trade you offer them – whether it is “fair” for you or not. So, if a man offers a woman “everything”, simply in exchange for making him feel “special” and nothing more, many women will take that deal (and provide nothing more than required). In some ways, they would be stupid not to take it.
Yes, historically, there was some influence from religion and morality that punished people for agreeing to trades that took advantage of others – but we have largely destroyed those social structures. So, if someone is ignorant enough (or brainwashed) to offer someone else “something for nothing”, most will take it readily without a second thought. It is up to each individual to assess their own worth and demand a fair trade – easier said than done with today’s social misinformation though.
Frankly, I think part of the “blue pill” problem is that many people still have not woken up to this wild-west reality. Some men (and women) are still trying to be moral and humble – figuring others are still playing by those old moral and religious rules that externally “policed” fairness in relationships. But many others are not controlled by those standards anymore. So, now everyone must take that extra step and ensure fair trade themselves.
December 4th, 2013 at 3:54 pm
Of course I see that Jeremy. Its not a one way street where women are exploited and men have perfect liberty. I don’t think that at all. I think I’ve been pretty clear that I think we are both getting a raw deal here. Just that women are really fucked about sex. I genuinely wish that weren’t the case.
And I am not interested in marrying because I know that there are too many men in the world who think that by marrying me that I become their possession that they can use any time they like, thereby eliminating my will from the equation.
I’m not saying I agree with it, or with you for thinking this way (if in fact you do…). I fully don’t, therefore I don’t marry. If I did agree with it, I would marry, and be happy to be a prostitute for my husband. As it stands, I have free will, and I also have an amazing man who I respect dearly, and who I more than willingly consent to, and we both enjoy the relationship immensely, I don’t want a thing to change.
Make sense?
December 4th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
“To the kitchen with you, the Men are going to the parlor to talk.”
Fine…
December 4th, 2013 at 3:59 pm
@livingtree2013
It really sounds like you’re not ready for commitment in any sense of the word. Where that comes from is outside the scope of the conversation, but that’s what you’re saying. You’re saying, “commitment is prostitution,” and I’m saying, “commitment is mutual sacrifice.”
Your way of looking at it involves painting women as victims. My way of looking at it requires self-sacrifice from both sexes. Which is the more sane viewpoint?
December 4th, 2013 at 4:01 pm
Moral of the story: We all live in a world of shit.
I honestly don’t know how an athiest who takes the red pill could believe or invest everything in this broken down mixed up world. For as many highs as it provides…there are many lows too.
Faith and hope are the two things keeping me from despair or insanity.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:05 pm
@Matt
“Beautiful — and even average — people do not have to deprave themselves to get sexual satisfaction,”
Lololol oh Matt…every post you make contains at least one little nugget of joy that lets everyone know you’ve never actually had sex or kept a woman.
Sorry guys, average to beautiful women do NOT like depraved fucking. Light romantic candles and call her a goddess, that’s what they really want.
How’s your collection of cuckold porn, Matt? lol
December 4th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
Not what I’m saying at all Yohami. Many women (though not all, definitely not all) are attracted to alpha men, I just doubt that it has much to do with impregnation. Maybe at a subliminal level, but I think its really more about the shame factor.
LT, based on this statement, either one of two things is true, either you are completely unfamiliar with evolutionary psychology or completely reject it as an explanatory model for human mating behavior. If it is the latter, all of us here will be talking past each other endlessly. I’d say one of the pillars of foundation of “Red Pill” thinking and basically a good chunk of what Rollo explains here is driven by the proposition that human mating behavior is highly influenced by hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution, not primarily a few decades or even centuries of cultural constructs. Arguably, the cultural constructs were created to limit the impulses driven by hardwired evolutionary programming. I can tell you we will find basically no common ground if the core of your position is that cultural influences are the primary driver of human sexual behavior. They are an ancillary driver at most, and to the extent appear to be a driver are only giving license to evolutionary drivers that were already there being restrained.
And also, truth be known, they’re funner in bed.
Right. Because they satisfy the need for women to feel dominated and led in bed.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:09 pm
Also this particular story reads as a hoax, but it doesn’t matter. It’s a good teaching opportunity because a lot of men have been through very similar experiences, or have friends who have, or are on their way toward it right now.
Hell my buddies and I alone can vouch for getting way better/kinkier sex from girls than their boyfriends/husbands get from them lol this is a legitimate thing that red pill men should study and keep in mind…ESPECIALLY before marriage/kids (also don’t get married lol)
December 4th, 2013 at 4:10 pm
@Dr. Jeremy
Or, in the case of most men, they’re taught by mother, father, family, friends, and everyone they know that reality isn’t reality. This isn’t done maliciously, but it is done, and it’s evil.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:11 pm
Not at all Jeremy. The prostitution is just part of the “exchange” theory that so many men ascribe to. If I’m going to be a prostitute, I’m going to do it on my terms. That’s what independent means, in theory. I’d happily commit to someone who didn’t restrict my free will. I want to be in a commitment because I WANT to be, not because I HAVE to be. Just that it doesn’t happen that way very often, but there is a huge difference between them.
And I dunno, from what you guys are saying here, I think you want us to want to be willing too. Not “forced” to do it with you because of social convention? Don’t you? Please tell me you do, or I might cry.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:12 pm
Just kidding about that last bit. I never cry over philosophy. :)
December 4th, 2013 at 4:16 pm
@LT
com·mit·ment (k-mtmnt) n.
1. The act or an instance of committing, especially:
a. The act of referring a legislative bill to committee.
b. Official consignment, as to a prison or mental health facility.
c. A court order authorizing consignment to a prison.
2.
a. A pledge to do.
b. Something pledged, especially an engagement by contract involving financial obligation.
3. The state of being bound emotionally or intellectually to a course of action or to another person or persons: a deep commitment to liberal policies; a profound commitment to the family.
Please review LT. Commitment is not what you seem to think it is. When you make a commitment, you are willfully submitting yourself to another person, or a cause. You can’t imply that commitment includes free-will, because it’s precisely the opposite. When you commit, you are graciously sacrificing some of your free will for that which you value.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:17 pm
No Morpheus, its that classical “evolutionary psychology” doctrine hasn’t really captured the peculiarities of our modern evolutionary stage – biology is a factor, but a suppressed one. Our psychology is being overridden by external inputs now.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:20 pm
And yes, I know only a random smattering of women who don’t enjoy being dominated in the bedroom. But the bedroom is the only place I like being dominated.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
First of all, the entire story reads too perfectly, it’s probably a troll from a cuckold or MTGOW type.
I suppose the counter-argument is that it doesn’t matter, it *could* have happened. But it doesn’t fit the narrative I’m familiar with, a former slut doesn’t clam it up for Mr Beta Hubby unless there’s something else going on there. This could happen if the guy had a severe “Madonna/Whore Complex”, e.g. he actually enjoyed the fact his wife didn’t “degrade” herself by having all the crazy kinky sex he secretly wanted.
Which it’s why it’s necessary to get your partner’s sex life out on the table in some nonjudgmental context. (YaReally is right on his first comment.) Most likely it will not include anything even close to a porn-style gangbangs, but the only way to find out is to have the right mentality rather than assuming the best.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
@livingtree2013
I think you aren’t operating with a clear definition of commitment. Once you set terms of a commitment you lose the privilege of modifying those terms. Every committed person sacrifices their ability to live on their own terms. If it’s just something you do while you want it and drop when you don’t it’s not a commitment.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
“Sorry guys, average to beautiful women do NOT like depraved fucking. Light romantic candles and call her a goddess, that’s what they really want.”
She probably wants the hot candle wax poured upon her.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:23 pm
As I’m fond of saying,..
http://therationalmale.com/2013/11/25/nursing-power/
Give her enough rope,..
December 4th, 2013 at 4:25 pm
Back in my younger years, myself, 2 brothers and a friend, gang banged a very slutty girl. She had been with two of the others plus a different friend on more then one occasion previously. I was bartending at the time. About a month after the bang, she came up to the bar, and excitedly told me she was engaged.
Never saw her again.
So yes Matt, this is quite a normal thing. Woman have the ability for basically unlimited orgasms. Men, one maybe two a night. You do the math.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Hoax or not…it has provided amazing discussion. You can’t take that away.
Plus the sheer number of men in this situation or knowing a guy in this situation is why it could be a real story or a clever hoax. It is believable.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:27 pm
Heh, what a funny coincidence.
A few months ago, I signed up to an escort verification service and escort review boards. These are the high-end girls you have to have references from other escorts before they will even agree to meet you. It’s a surreal experience to find entire forum threads on some girl that you’re about to meet.
Last night, I was doing research on an upcoming encounter and found out the next girl I will be banging did two porn videos a decade ago. I even got my hands on a copy and watched her get plowed, bareback, by three big dudes at once. I wasn’t too surprised, but it was remarkable watching the reactions of some of the guys, who felt they were “lied to” and “ripped off”, since she has a “good girl” persona. And when the girl entered the thread to explain and rationalize her raunchy sordid past “mistake”, there were a few White Knights who said, “Wow, that’s such an intelligent response, I’d love to sit down and hold a conversation with you.”
Roissy Maxim #7: The sweeter and more innocent a girl seems, the greater the likelihood she has been in a gangbang.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
DISH! Nice to read you again.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:28 pm
More science about the sexes differences –
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-hardwired-difference-between-male-and-female-brains-could-explain-why-men-are-better-at-map-reading-8978248.html
December 4th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Interesting point Jeremy, that may be the reason I have tended to steer clear of it then – I always thought it was because I didn’t find a man (or woman) that was worthy of giving up my options for. Maybe they are the same? If I freely pledge to give up my options, is that actually a restriction of my free will? I don’t see it as such. Could be just a perspective thing.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Earl… hot candle wax is fun!
December 4th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
Birth control alone is the reason why women have the ability to go all gangbang whenever they want. Remove the biggest consequence of sex for a woman (pregnancy)…it can be all holds bar for her. Women should of never had control of their fertility other than what her body naturally does.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:35 pm
@YaReally, go easy on Matt, apparently he’s never searched for “Self-Shots Galleries” on Google yet.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:35 pm
@livingtree2013
I think a big difference between how beta men and typical women approach relationships is the the assumption that you can freely revoke your pledge. Most women reserve and exercise that right. Most (beta) men do not. The unfairness of the situation leads to a lot of frustration and resentment.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:43 pm
December 4th, 2013 at 4:44 pm
More science about the sexes differences –
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-hardwired-difference-between-male-and-female-brains-could-explain-why-men-are-better-at-map-reading-8978248.html
Ha. Too funny. Aunt Giggles has a new post up today on sex differences but didn’t mention anything about “why men are better at map reading”…..she only focused on the things the female brain is “better” at. One thing I’ve observed about her is she is extremely adept at citing some scientific study, but only cherrypicking out of context the very narrow points that bolster her views and agenda, and if and when you go and read the study, it is almost too funny all the stuff she didn’t mention in a post on that study.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:45 pm
Deep Dish, funny I said something like that on another forum just the other day,
“A girl who says “I’m not that kind of girl” is like a guy who says “You can trust me”.
December 4th, 2013 at 4:45 pm
@LT
As I said, you don’t seem willing to make a commitment to a man. That’s not a failing any more than being a PUA or MGTOW is evil. However, I can’t be intellectually honest if I only decide to look at the world through the eyes of a MGTOW and declare all marriage as slavery, or through the eyes of a 3rd gen feminist and declare all marriage as prostitution. I have to consider that other people are willing to commit to each other, and there is good in that despite stories like in Rollos post here. Furthermore, I can’t honestly declare that because I feel that marriage is slavery, that women like the one in the story should be thrown in prison for their abuse (I am heavily playing devils advocate here). The woman committed fraud, of that I have no doubt. However, there was a commitment made, so he signed up for hell, he just didn’t know he was signing up for hell. Tragically, she was a liar, even to herself, about who she was attracted to.