“A woman in love can’t be reasonable, otherwise she wouldn’t be in love”
— Mae West
Last week The Chateau posted an article about a Beta male asking girls for reasons why they rejected him. In the typical deductive logic that most Betas are prone to use, he runs down a checklist of questions regarding what he thinks killed his chances with the girls he thought he could get with. He petitions four women with questions about themselves, which, being women, all are more than eager to answer.
Do you usually figure out if you wanna do more than make out with someone pretty instantly? Or, is it a slow burn?
Was there anything I did wrong that turned you off?
If you had advice for any guy looking to meet a girl, what would it be?
What makes someone attractive to you? Do you have any types?
Do you feel that you could never date someone shorter than you?
Am I an unattractive person to you?
These are some of the more common questions John Brown puts to the girls, and true to form the girls answer with the standard feminine boilerplate responses that absolve themselves of their part in his rejection, while trying not to hurt the feelings of a guy they knew would never see them naked. With the exception of maybe Vanessa, it’s pretty clear that John’s punching well above his blue-pill weight with these girls even though I’d only rate Victoria as the only HB8 in the bunch.
The questioning is what I’ve come to expect from most chumps mired in their blue pill bubble of applying logic to their sexlessness, but it’s not John’s overt grilling of these women that’s keeping him trapped in the Matrix – it’s his buildups and followups to those questions. John isn’t just interviewing them to ‘get to the bottom of things’ so he can solve his sex problem, he’s leading these women with ‘if then’ logic in an effort to convince them that, by their own words, they should be attracted to him.
John is make the most fundamental error every plugged in chump makes — he’s appealing to women’s reason.
Why Women Can’t ‘Just Get It‘
Appealing to women’s logic and relying on deductive reasoning to sort it out is the calling card of a Beta mind. There is nothing more anti-seductive for women than appealing to her reason. Arousal, attraction, sexual tension, subcommunication of desire, all happen indirectly and below the social surface for women. It’s not that women are incapable of reasoning (hypergamy is one logical bitch) or are crippled by their emotion-based hindbrains, it’s that if you’re asking her how to be more attractive you don’t Get It. It’s in the doing, not the asking.
If you read through the responses these women give John from a red pill perspective, you’ll see a pattern emerge. On an intrinsic, subliminal level, women understand that their genuine desire, their genuine arousal and attraction, has to be an organic process. When a guy like John makes attempts to convince a woman that by her own reasoning (and led by his) she should be with him intimately, it offends and then cancels that process for her.
For women, one of the qualities of the Alpha her Hypergamy demands is a guy who Just Gets It. An Alpha would intrinsically know what women’s arousal and attraction cues are without being told and without even the inclination to ask about them. John’s issue of overtly confirming for himself ‘what women want’ is really an abdication of a Beta who doesn’t get it. And true to form, John’s, and Betas like him, next logical resort is to rationally convince a woman (preferably using her own words) to be attracted to him by attempting to re-impress her of his status.
Betas like this generally end up as the infamous emotional tampon, or the Surrogate Boyfriend to a woman who’s banging the most Alpha Man her looks can attract. However, this appeal-to-reason rationale filters into other aspects of men’s lives. The logical progression for John would be to better identify with the women (really the feminine imperative) he hopes to bang in the future – embody the feminine prerequisites, get the intimate approval. For married or monogamous men this appeal-to-reason may come as a mistaken belief that doing more chores around the house will lead to more (or any) sex for him.
The fallacy of Relational Equity is essentially founded on men’s dependency on appeals to women’s reason. Your doing homework with your children to better their lives (while very ennobling) doesn’t make your wife any hotter for you in bed, nor will it be any bargaining tool should she decide to leave you. Just as John is learning here, women don’t fall in love with who you are, they fall in love with what you are, and no appeal to their reason will convince them otherwise.
Red Pill Women
There’s a lot being made in the manosphere about the emergence of red pill or Game aware women. I’m on record for stating that every woman is a red pill woman, it’s just getting them to drop the feminine-primary, psychological pretense and cop to red pill truths that’s the trick. While I do share the generally wariness of self-identifying “Red Pill Women” and their potential for sanitizing or repurposing Game-awareness to a better feminine liking, I think most women are already aware of the truth of Game. There’s a very real danger in Men accepting “red pill women’s” conversion and acceptance of those truths for exactly the appeal-to-reason dynamic I’ve described here.
Red pill women’s acceptance of what the manosphere forces them to acknowledge about themselves is essentially a convincing appeal to their reason, and this will always make their “conversion” suspect. Regardless of their reported red pill self-awareness, red pill women still want a guy to Just Get It, their desire still can’t be negotiated, and as illogical as it may seem to a manosphere Man, hoping to appeal to the same reason that made her “red pill” still wont get you laid.
Red pill or not, women are still women, and basing any relationship you have with them on appealing to their reason, rather than solid Game awareness and truths, is building you house on a foundation of sand.
August 15th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
@ Such
Ditto for my guy, feel badly that he had to endure that crap but fornutate that he found this site – thanks guys!
He was Alpha pre-marriage, married young and stayed with it 20 years. Then disgusted, I think, and began reading. He’s actually not “mine”, dating a few months. He stated early on “you can’t have what you want” – wow! The former princess of the universe de-throned with 1 simple statement? What a God – just what I had been yearning to hear, and he has followed through in true Alpha fashion. I actually have to work at getting what I want and prove myself – love the challenge! He demonstrates that he cares and is compassionate and thoughtful, but won’t take any shit tests- damn near perfect in my eyes. It helps me to become more emotionally responsible, which I thought would never happen! Yes, remembering to show him I appreciate his challenges and respect his transformation, of #1 importance!
Any advice you can think of – I am all ears!
August 15th, 2013 at 7:02 pm
It’s really a very common theme:
http://therationalmale.com/2011/12/28/the-death-of-rollo-tomassi/
August 15th, 2013 at 7:21 pm
Rollo, thank you for all you have done to help these guys be what, at least some women, have been searching for for eons! When the Alpha began talking about Betas, I replied that women turn men into that shit – before knowing anything about this site. So good to be validated by such an intelligent guy!
August 16th, 2013 at 11:57 am
Lol. Matt still has hope for Feminishtix’,..’soul’
funny you should mention that….
http://feministx.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/to-me-or-not-to-me-that-is-the-question/
August 16th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
I see more solipsism than hamstering.
No-one forces you to work. Chasing after a promotion, a bigger car, a faster internet connection, whatever — that’s stuff that you choose to do because you care more about impressing someone else than you do about being happy.
Taking the red pill means seeing social pressure for what it is. Heading back into the matrix (giving in to social pressure) ignores everything you’ve learned while awake.
August 19th, 2013 at 9:08 pm
Who is this dumb ass cunt catalinarea??
“I am sooo sooo SOOOOOOOO sick of the manosphere guys saying “poor men we are so screwed we have such an uphill battle wa wa wa”. BULLSHIT. If anybody is disadvantaged it’s women. A guy never expires and can always restart his life. A woman gets only one window of opportunity and then she is obsolete.
Because I am a girl, I have to plan my 20s carefully. Because I am a girl, I have to sacrifice either career/satisfying pursuits or a family. Because I am a girl, there will come a day when I am invisible. Because I am a girl, I have to worry about my health/youth more. Because I am a girl, I have to dread the future. Because I am a girl, I have to consider settling in life.
So you know what? Suck it, up. Because being a girl is fucking hard in the long run. After divorce, a woman is screwed whereas a man can still find a mate, be socially accepted, etc. A woman has to make lifetime decisions in her 20s and then be treated like garbage. So don’t even.
Thing is, I’m not even a feminist. Life would’ve been a lot simpler if I was in 1950 right now. But noooo now I have to worry about expectations that I have to pull a career out of my V as well as a baby AND about the potential of my husband leaving me once I’m no longer young.
So I repeat; stop complaining. Men have the choice to be free or to take on responsibility. Women only get to choose from either responsibility or invisibility. All I want is freedom, but I cannot have it and still hope for a bright future. Life’s not fair. But it’s in men’s favour.
Oh, but don’t start responding to this comment by calling me a feminist. Because I’m very anti-feminist as my friends can attest to. I just think you guys don’t recognize that he landscape is hard on women, as well.”
Bitch you know SHIT. 23 talking like you’re some kind of fucking expert on all this. Let’s try this again, you dumbed down “war on women” bitches are always the ones complaining meanwhile contributing shit to society and sitting back while dudes make the majority of the sacrifices here.
Lmfao, men don’t sac career or pursuits for family either?!
Lmfao, a woman only has “one” chance?! You dumb skank, haven’t you ever for instance been on facebook and seen all the cougar and BBW pages that are up and all the white knights and manginas telling these rags how “hot” and how “sexy” they are? Imagine some aging and fat dudes started their own pages, how many desperate broads do you think would be there telling these dudes how “hot” they are? Oh, none. Fat, nasty, wrinkling, mouthy, moody, ugly, filthy, dirty bitches with 3 kids can still find any one of a plethora of the millions and millions of beta suckers just happy to take care of them and give their fucking lives for them. Btw, what happens when you’re a dude and you get a serious injury and you lose your looks? Most dudes don’t know that the way women treat you before and after is like absolute shit. Don’t tell me men don’t experience this but only women do, especially when you cunts can go to any bar on any night and bang any of the loads of desperate dudes out there.
No BITCH YOU suck it the fuck up. It’s time for you “we want equality” cunts to start dying on the mother fucking front lines, start making up 80% of the homeless, 94% of deaths on the job, giving your lives for men in life and death situations, paying men fucking alimony, taking men on dates and paying for them, even though you fucking skanks control 60% of the wealth in this CUNTry, and you bitches commit paternity fraud at a rate of 17% nationwide, call in sick twice as often, have not built or invented SHIT here, don’t operate under affirmative action, pay not the majority but minority of the taxes, take dudes for half their net worth in divorce and siphon off child support and spend that shit on purses and shoes and the next new Beyonce, ‘girl power’ album or bon bons or whatever other dumb shit you bitches do with it.
Man fuck these entitled skanks, you bitches need to rot in hell
August 19th, 2013 at 9:11 pm
Can I leave a comment here or what?
August 19th, 2013 at 9:13 pm
My apologies, my original comment didn’t register right away on this post and it seemed it may have gotten erased, but it takes a few minutes
or so to register I guess.
August 25th, 2013 at 11:16 pm
To paraphrase Australian comedian Jim Jefferies…
When you are on a first date, and the bill comes, she always touches the straps of her handbag like she is going to pay, until you say, “no no I’ll pay.” That argument is over in 2 seconds. All other arguments will go on for months.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/lifestyle/life/blogs/citykat/hes-still-paying-and-women-are-paying-for-it-20130822-2sdvg.html#ixzz2d2czueHA
September 22nd, 2013 at 3:17 pm
[…] and female SMV in the context of hypergamy in The Curse of Potential. He also warns against making Appeals to Reason to […]
September 23rd, 2013 at 8:55 pm
I’m very sorry that here this much hatred can be tasted toward entire cathegories, women accused of having it easy and not having invented anything, (false or conditionally true). It’s not just a serene discussion on how to be more sexy and charming to girls but respecting them (at least as individuals, assholes are transversal to sexes, no need to vomit such a coldness). There are people, women and men that exploit the situation, simply put, the problem is not wanting equality, but trying unhonestly to only take the good out of it and keep the old paradigm with what comes handy, like traditional favours or the usual protective role of men. Women are not much different than men in being assholes, but appear to be, because they exploit the situation from a different social standpoint, so they take advantage of different gaps of society.
October 2nd, 2013 at 1:53 pm
Congratulations from a longtime reader. I knew it’d be a hit.
December 31st, 2013 at 12:00 am
[…] I’ve explained before, appeals to a woman’s reason will never bear the fruit that hopeful Beta men expect it will. Women don’t want to be told […]
January 20th, 2014 at 11:25 pm
[…] impress me as a chump, so I believe his comment on Jezebel was really more of a symbolic appeal to feminine reason. What he illustrates here is a common misgiving most Beta blue pill men subscribe to – that they […]
January 21st, 2014 at 12:17 pm
Are you saying that women are always doing their instinctive mating ritual behaviours 24/7 365 with every single male?
This fellow was not trying to mate with these women… he was just conducting a logical information-gathering exercise.
You wrote an article explaining why logical discussion and information gathering is not a good mating ritual behaviour.
February 3rd, 2014 at 9:17 pm
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June 26th, 2014 at 12:26 pm
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August 12th, 2014 at 5:54 am
@ Jen.
It makes sense why the guys don’t stick around when you are in a relationship. Even if the guy wasn’t about getting into your pants or worst case scenario wanted to get into your pants while being a friend. The fact is most girls can’t be true friends with guys. Most times when the girl gets into the relationship as a guy you stop hearing from her. The next time you will hear from her is when she has man problems and needs to vent or perhaps when he’s out of town. In a very rare case I did have one female friend that even when she got into a relationship I still visited her at she and her man’s place. We still talked. Her man knew of me and was ok with me coming by. Most times it’s just not like that.
August 23rd, 2014 at 4:49 pm
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September 15th, 2014 at 1:23 pm
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January 13th, 2015 at 2:06 pm
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