The New Thin

new_thin

My Reddit Q&A on Monday generated a lot of good questions:

Ever notice on Facebook, when ever an average/fugly/fat chick post’s her picture you have like ten women (only women) chime in with their comments under the picture saying stuff like “HOT!” “you’re so pretty!” “damn you look good” when in fact she isn’t?!

Are women trying to make their not so attractive friend feel better about herself?! Or is there another scheme involved here of setting the bar low in order to boast their own attractive scale up.

I see, hear and read this constantly. What we’re observing however is a carefully constructed feminine social convention, and a feminine-combative one at that. By tacitly reinforcing the “good looks” of an obviously overweight woman with positive compliments, the latent message is that she doesn’t need to improve her looks to attract men. The truth of course is that she could be semi-fuckable after dropping another 15 pounds, but in telling her she’s hot ‘as-is’ the idea, in the form of an encouraging compliment, is to get her to relax and stay fat. Thus the complimenter(s) simultaneously feel relaxed in their fat.

It’s really a socialization attempt by less physically appealing women to regulate the sexual market in favor of themselves.

I can remember experiencing this firsthand long before the advent of social media. In the days I worked in the resort casino industry, I was in the lunchroom with the largely (heh) female advertising department and the conversation came up about how some woman in accounting was “too thin” or she need to gain some weight. I emphatically disagreed; I knew the woman they were going on about and she could’ve lost 10 pounds and still been overweight. The ladies lost their shit when I said she could stand to lose a few pounds and hit the gym more often. The hens practically pounded the table with their fists and the accusations of misogyny, and the old chestnuts about men’s “shallow” desires for the physical all flew wild and furious.

You see all the women at the table were as heavy if not heavier than the woman in question. I had insulted the herd by association.

The funny thing about body image is that most people tend to judge obesity based on their own physique. If you’re overweight and your regular peer group is fatter than you, you tend to think you’re “normal”. It’s similar to eating a donut from a box someone’s brought to work for all to enjoy. If one person is eating a donut it tacitly gives others “permission” to enjoy one too.

I was once at a distillery in Panama with a group of Dutch people I work with and a stunningly attractive Panamanian secretary asked me if I was Dutch. I told her, no, I was American and she said “oh, you don’t ‘look’ American. I laughed at this for a minute and asked her what an American ‘looks’ like and she said, “well, they’re all fat.” I took it as a compliment, but I had to agree with her.

Books and Covers

You can’t judge a book by it’s cover, but more often than not, it’s a good indicator of what the story’s about. An attractive cover should make the reader want to read it.

Women have far more rigid prerequisites for what makes an acceptable man for an LTR than men do for women. Women base their estimate of a man on his confidence, status, affluence, looks, humor, intellect, creativity, ambition, determination, decisiveness,..and the list goes on. Men’s requisites for intimacy? Looks and sexual availability, that’s it. Beyond that, you can make a case for any ephemeral quality that convinces you the girl’s worth your long term investment, but if she’s not hot enough to keep your physical interest, you’re going to look elsewhere to make up for it.

Yet what is the single most common shaming tactic women use for men? Painting them as ‘shallow‘ for requiring her to maintain a good shape and be sexually available. Men have far too much on the line in the long term NOT to be concerned with demanding the highest standard from a woman for an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means. For all of the personal investment a man must make in himself to meet women’s ‘attraction prerequisites’, it only makes pragmatic sense that his (physical) standards for women be strict and exact.

It’s really up to you to make the judgement call, but by no means should you allow accusations of superficiality influence your decision in that. As a Man, you are well within your rights to expect a maintained physique from a woman, considering the far greater sacrifices she expects from you. Would you leave her if she got fat? Damn right you would. Would she leave you if you went beta-listless-unemployed-alcoholic? Damn right she would.

All that said, what it really comes down to is the reason why this girl lost the weight. There are plenty of fresh divorcees frenetically working out at Planet Fitness in the hopes of reconditioning themselves enough to attract another husband – only to fatten up again once she finds the guy who “loves her for who she is”. Women who once were fat, who slim down are prone to this. That’s not to say there aren’t women who make a definitive lifestyle change and go from being a walrus to a Fitness America Pageant contestant and parley that into modeling or  personal training career, but these are the most rare and notable exceptions.

I should also point out that it’s a uniquely White Knight habit to publicly defend a woman’s body image insecurities in order to get the identification / affirmation strokes they believe endears them to women. I hear these guys parrot back the same lines women self-affirm when talking about their body shape or trying to disqualify a sexual competitor, in an effort to be more ‘like’ the women they hope to get with. The idea is that they believe they’ll be rewarded for taking the “fat acceptance, love-who-you-are” tact and be perceived as more modern or up with the right conventions, and that guy’s who actually have the temerity to say they prefer a tight body are the neanderthals – again, to disqualify their own sexual competitors.

The Mechanics of Sexual Selection

Whenever the ‘fat is OK’ debate pops up all it does is serve to further illustrate yet another feminine social convention. All of these conventions are sociological and psychological methodologies with the latent purpose of securing breeding opportunities for less than physically optimal women.

  • Point 1: Women know on an instinctual, biological level that, overall, men generally base their breeding selection on the physical conditions of a female. Hips to waist ratio, breast size, facial symmetry, fullness of lips, youthful appearance, etc.

  • Point 2: In order to compete with similar women in meeting the physical standards of a given demographic of men, women must create physical methods in order to compensate for this deficit. Thus they have make up, cosmetic surgery, high-heels, hair dye, etc.

  • Point 3: Failing this, sociological and psychological constructs are necessary to ‘level the playing field’ in the sexual marketplace. Thus, fat, out of shape women attempt to convince men to feel ashamed for wanting a physically superior female by converting that desire into shame. It becomes superficiality. Likewise, older women who’s sexual marketability wanes with every passing year, must create social constructs that praises the sexual prowess of older women.

Women have been trying to convince themselves for centuries that there ought to be more to sexual attraction for men than physical appeal, and for centuries this method has been thwarted by simple male biology. Rather than play the game better, they attempt to change the rules of the game to better fit their own limitations in a variety of ways.

The problem with the idea that “it’s what’s inside that counts” is that it’s what’s outside that arouses. All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.


222 responses to “The New Thin

  • kay

    as long as you Men know fatties should stick with fatties. I’ve been seeing too many Men lately who think they can pull good looking womene and they absolutely CANNOT. I hope most of the Men on these blog are not 30-40 year old with receding hair lines, gut bellies with little money talk about how the are entitled to be selective.

  • cash

    Kay,

    the whole point to game is punching above your weight class (heh).

    yes, without game, a balding 30-40 year old with a gut and no money is reduced to jacking off.

    with game, anything is possible.

  • Meade

    A woman isn’t just a body. She must have a beautiful face to be attractive. Having a body is only half of it. If a woman has a beautiful face but less than perfect body- she is still more attractive to me than a woman with a fit body but an unattractive face. On the shallow level. But I disagree that a woman must just be attractive to male on physical. Personality does matter- especially in long term relationship. No amount of looks can make up a terrible woman. No matter how good looking she is. It will turn off the rest. This is all shallow perspective, of course, but that is the nature of this blog isnt it? Still that is my opinion. I will take a plus sized woman with a beautiful face over a thin woman with a bad looking face. Any time, Any day.

  • Rooster

    @kay – hair loss and going grey are natural processes that will happen to a man whether he takes care of himself or not. Being obese is [most of the time] a choice. Some men start going bald and or grey in their early twenties. Are you suggesting they bow out of the sexual market place altogether or feel gratitude for pairing up with women who chose to be obese? Genuinely curious.

  • Rooster

    “No amount of looks can make up a terrible woman.”

    I think our species surviving for the last couple of million years would prove you wrong there.
    No amount of civilization, society or culture can paper over the fact that a good looking woman has a high chance of reproducing. Biology doesn’t give a sh!t that her personality is abrasive.
    Check out Christopher Ryan’s Sex before Dawn book for further reading.

  • Meade

    I beg to differ. Biology is only part of the equation when it comes to attraction. When a beautiful woman is a horrible person then she begins to appear less and less beautiful. There is no exception. Average women can be more beautiful with how they act. And sexy people can beyond conventional beauty. Also, not all beautiful women are good child bearers. A beautiful woman can suffer infertility. But I go back to my shallow point- that don’t think an overweight woman is unattractive. I think overweight women can be beautiful. I think a thin woman can be unattractive, if she doesn’t have a pretty face. Also, when I talk about overweight, I dont mean morbidly obese. Of course obesity is not attractive. I’m talking about women who are not thin, but not grossly overweight either.

  • Meade

    KAY: What makes you think men in their 30s and 40s are necessarily past their prime? I am in my 30s. I dont have receding hairline. i dont have a gut. While I’m not rich, I certainly am not poor either. I think you sound as bad as some of these men who refuse to date women who are less than svelt.

  • you had it coming

    This piece can only be described as fallacious, mysogenistic, offensive bullshit.

    Here are some of Tomassi’s main points and my response to them:

    “Women have far more rigid prerequisites for what makes an acceptable man for an LTR than men do for women. Women base their estimate of a man on his confidence, status, affluence, looks, humor, intellect, creativity, ambition, determination, decisiveness,..and the list goes on. Men’s requisites for intimacy? Looks and sexual availability, that’s it. Beyond that, you can make a case for any ephemeral quality that convinces you the girl’s worth your long term investment, but if she’s not hot enough to keep your physical interest, you’re going to look elsewhere to make up for it.”

    First of all, a male’s requisites for intimacy are not the same as a males requisites for an LTR. Men are not that stupid. Yes, attractiveness and sexual availability will be fun for a night but for some reason, I feel like many men may need a little more than that to make a lifelong commitment. Even if I was the hottest girl in the world would my boyfriend still be dating me if I was unintelligent, unemployed, uneducated, lazy, indecisive and rude? Probably not. I’m not saying no man would date me…but I doubt he would stick with me for life. Secondly, yeah no shit women consider more than looks when choosing a companion. It would be nice to date a diverse human being. Somebody with a personality. Somebody with a few life goals. Why is this an issue? I think it’s a rather smart approach to choosing a partner. No woman realistically expects a man to have every single good quality. Even if somebody like that did exist, he’d be way too cocky and annoying to deal with in one lifetime. In fact, most of the time, all a female wants is to be appreciated and accepted for who they are (that means not getting freaked out if you’re girlfriend happens to fart in front of you). If a man can do that he’ll be good to go.

    “What is the single most common shaming tactic women use for men? Painting them as ‘shallow‘ for requiring her to maintain a good shape and be sexually available.”

    Well… if a man or woman is dating somebody purely on looks, I’d say that’s a bit shallow. Women aren’t specifically targeting men as shallow. We just call it like it is. If you are dating a person purely based on his/her figure or looks, you are shallow. Get over it. One is also shallow if they date somebody based on another superficial factor such as money.

    “Men have far too much on the line in the long term NOT to be concerned with demanding the highest standard from a woman for an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means. For all of the personal investment a man must make in himself to meet women’s ‘attraction prerequisites’, it only makes pragmatic sense that his (physical) standards for women be strict and exact.”

    First of all, I’m pretty sure both men and women have a lot on the line when they make a lifelong commitment. Next, there is no way in hell I am going to dedicate all my time to my figure or looks in order to be in a relationship. If that’s what it takes, I’d rather be single. Finally, “an investment that goes beyond anything she could hope to genuinely appreciate or match by other means?” This point is almost too aggravating to refute. Let me clarify something, that investment — whether it’s getting an education, finding a good job, learning skills, pursuing a passion etc. etc. — is a privilege. And any person, in any country who has such an opportunity should be thankful. As a woman, I know what it means to make personal investments and I have a right to invest in myself as well. I’d like to be able to support myself and my family if my “shallow” husband dumps me because I’m not as good looking as I was in my twenties. So apologies for not spending 100% of my time working out and doing my makeup.

    “As a Man, you are well within your rights to expect a maintained physique from a woman, considering the far greater sacrifices she expects from you.”

    Stop going on and on about your silly sacrifices. I have met no man who truly has made as many sacrifices as the women in my life. Is this because I’m a naive female who is “unable to appreciate” what sacrifice means? No. I believe it’s because I’m the daughter of a CEO who literally came from nothing and worked her ass off to get where she is; stepping on the egos of men the whole way there. Men: you’ve done nothing out of the ordinary. Stop patting yourself on the back.

    Haha, also…wait.. Why is “Man” capitalized? I was unaware that “man” was on par with God. Here’s something for you “Men” to consider: every wonder why you have nipples that are completely functionless? It’s because you were made from women.

    “Women have been trying to convince themselves for centuries that there ought to be more to sexual attraction for men than physical appeal, and for centuries this method has been thwarted by simple male biology. Rather than play the game better, they attempt to change the rules of the game to better fit their own limitations in a variety of ways.
    The problem with the idea that “it’s what’s inside that counts” is that it’s what’s outside that arouses. All the “feeling good about your body” that a fat woman can muster is NEVER going to be an aphrodisiac or a substitute for having a great body that men are aroused by.”

    The funny thing about this point is that what “arouses” a person is in large part, completely culturally and socially constructed. A great body can be defined in a million ways by a million people from different places or a million people from the same place. How you define beauty is different from how I define it. I’m not making a huge paradoxical claim here, this is common knowledge. Yes, western culture has put a “female body ideal” out there for all to see and unfortunately, it seems to be taking over the world. But this ideal is completely constructed and there are still people today who are able to think for themselves. Regardless of whether or not males have some innate biological drive forcing them to only mate with attractive females, the definition of “attractive female” has varied so much across time and culture it seems obtuse to spend so much idealizing one specific body type now. There is also not just one single characteristic that attracts you to another human being. Appearance counts for something, I’ll admit it. But there is way more to mate selection than that. If you don’t believe this, it’s probably because you’ve never been in love.

  • Stig

    @ You had it coming 01/27/13-21:18 —

    tl;dr. Tweet your photos, full length and head shot. Mkaybye.

  • DeNihilist

    ARGH!

    {“Any offspring is good for the economy. [Recent] data from the U.S. shows virtually no children were born to women above a certain corporate level,” he says. “We have to make jobs more child-friendly or offer women alternatives, through health care, to preserve their oocytes [eggs].” }

    http://money.ca.msn.com/investing/canadian-business/motherhood-postponed

  • T and A Man

    yeah thanks kay… I think men here will match up with the best quality woman that their options allow. What we are endeavouring to understand here is how to maximise our options. That may mean many entitled princesses will get shunted down the list as we find that real women live in places like latin America, Eastern Europe and Asia… but that’s life.

  • T and A Man

    You had it coming… you crapped on with

    “Well… if a man or woman is dating somebody purely on looks, I’d say that’s a bit shallow. Women aren’t specifically targeting men as shallow. We just call it like it is. If you are dating a person purely based on his/her figure or looks, you are shallow.”

    That really is the height of arrogance. Men are not women, gender is not a social construct. You have no place telling men what is shallow, or deep to a man. Looks, particularly weight are not shallow, they are very important, they impart traits of character and knowledge of nutrition. Nutrition that I, and my children, will require. Your comments back the theme that quality women do not require feminism… a kind, nurturing, thin woman with a sound knowledge of nutrition doesn’t need society to belittle men. Men will trip over themselves for her.

  • M3

    Retrenched
    January 26th, 2013 at 12:01 am

    “You just gotta love how most women rate 80% of men as below average, and then complain that the other 20% are shallow when they date hotter women…”

    You know, someone should make a RedPill sphere book along the same lines as Unicorn Being a Jerk
    ( http://misterunicorn.com/index.php?/books/unicorn-being-a-jerk/ )

    The book would simply be a bunch of Sphere observations with accompanying drawings that would being each and every little truth to light with such humor as only comedy can do.

    And think of all the money you’d make!

    Just remember to send me 1% of each book sale, i will enjoy retiring in 3 years with projected demand.

  • Adam

    Men go bald and get beer bellies at age 30-40? lol

  • Adam

    That comment was directed at Kay and her solipsistic projections.

  • itsme

    KAY: What makes you think men in their 30s and 40s are necessarily past their prime?

    her hamster.

  • itsme

    @you had it coming

    have you considered doing standup? cuz that’s some funny shit right there.

    I’m the daughter of a CEO who literally came from nothing and worked her ass off to get where she is

    all a female wants is to be appreciated and accepted for who they are

    As a woman, I know what it means to make personal investments… So apologies for not spending 100% of my time working out and doing my makeup

    and your entire last paragraph.

    it’s gold, brah, gold!

  • Martel

    I think “you had it”‘s biggest crapper was:

    “In fact, most of the time, all a female wants is to be appreciated and accepted for who they are (that means not getting freaked out if you’re girlfriend happens to fart in front of you). If a man can do that he’ll be good to go.”

    What dimension is this? Or is it only a different solar system?

  • Why do women positively reinforce fugliness? | I Owe You Nothing

    [...] Rollo Tomassi thinks it’s to kneecap the competition. That’s got to be part of it. [...]

  • kay

    Interesting. such defensiveness. Again I say…. Many Men are shooting way out of their league. I don’t know what kind goggles you are viewing yourself from but its not realistic. NOT ALL.. but most it seems.

  • kay

    @ Rooster, I do not suggest bowing out of the Market. I could not take a fatty knowing I work out 4 times a week and stay at my optimum weight. I know graying, receding hair line is a natural progression but you obviously have to step the game up a bit to compensate for that. Don’t be broke but expect the women you are seeking to have it together. somewhere a long the way its not just women who lost sight of themselves but Men have also. Everyone really needs to pick that mirror up and take a good luck, be prepared to be very honest with yourself. In all aspects.. financial, personality, looks, weight ETC… I often find its Men who reach out of their league.. I guess if you have the power, money you can but most Men do not have that advantage. If you don’t its time to be real with yourself about that.

  • Ton

    Read enough online dating profiles and your learn what a load of shit the idea women just want someone to appreciate/ accept them for who they are

    Sure they want that, and 465 other traits like minimum height, education, and income levels. Then the list grows from there

  • Ton

    Read enough online dating profiles and your learn what a load of shit the idea women just want someone to appreciate/ accept them for who they are

    Sure they want that, and 465 other traits like minimum height, education, and income levels. Then the list grows from there

  • deti

    kay:

    basically what you’re telling men who don’t have power, money or status that they should just accept their lots in life, and they should simply give up.

    What I find fascinating is that you’ve essentially proven Game points with your comments. In making your comments, you’ve shown that you — and women like you — are attracted to power, money, looks and status.

    IOW, you’re a golddigger who wants a George Clooney clone.

  • M3

    in a world where a majority of women have super unrealistic expectations and find up to 80% of men ‘below average’ in looks…

    ..i’m supposed to wife up Miss Haagendaas for her personality while i eat right and work out 5 days a week?

    K.. all you gotta do to be attractive is not shove mcdonalds in your mouth and walk 30 minutes a day. touch a makeup, a dress. easy pickins.

    Guy has to work out 200+ days out of the year, eat properly, bust his ass to get educated, bust his ass off to earn money and show growth potential, be cool, slick and confident when it counts, emotionally vulnerable and empathetic at just the right moments, make sure he’s interested in everything you find fascinating, look good in the suit you make him wear so you can keep your trophy squeeky clean to show off to your girlfriends.. basically fill out the imperative checklist… just to be fucking attractive.

    See the disparity? So stop playing the victim, accept that we got 2 easy criteria for you women to be attractive to us(don’t be fat, dont be a bitch) compared to your 467 bullet checklist to be attractive to you.

    If you think thats too much to ask for.. then please go ahead and re-insert your head into your ass where it was before you started on here. Because seriously. If us guys are supposed to be dating fatties.. then you should be dating a jobless guy who lives in his moms basement playing xbox all day.

  • kay

    Basically this blog is for Men who want to feel better about themselves because they cannot attract the kind of woman they really want. Here is where you can come & bash women. I am not telling you to get out of the market place or telling you to settle or date fatties. I own my own home and hold it down financially. I do not need a man for that. You must match what I bring at least. If you guys cannot take simple advice of knowing what your market is. that’s your choice. Keep fishing in the pond that will yield no results. It’s funny how all I read in these posts how women are in denial blah blah blah and their friends… Ironic that you you can dish it but can’t take it. Men are visual creatures. At some point you need to be honest with yourself where your market is. How much more can I dumb it down for you.

  • FuriousFerret

    @kay

    “I own my own home and hold it down financially. I do not need a man for that. You must match what I bring at least”

    Men don’t care. Seriously, all your degrees, houses and real estate mean nothing to guys. Men want a pretty woman that is nice. That’s it. You might be good looking but from your posts your personality is extremely unfeminine and thus unattractive.

    As much as you hate it, the fact remains that men who are attractive will always be put off by your personality type. You will never get the guy you truly desire to commit to you. You will always simply be a pump and dump because that man has tons of options and a masculine personality will always send him running towards the hills expect to use you for a short term fling.

    Also you make assumptions that the men that read these blogs are physically unattractive. I would have to disagree. If you look the manosphere blogs, almost all hold up physical fitness in a very high regard. How many women do you think acutally follow the Paleo diet like we do? I would guess the number of women on a healthy clean diet is extremely low compared to men. When I go to the gym that is a health club, the men are the only ones actually do real workouts. The women do some cardio on a treadmill and most of those women are fat, since cardio is does absolutely nothing when the diet is off.

    “At some point you need to be honest with yourself where your market is. ”

    Here’s the thing Kay, you have be firing on all cyclinders to be in the game today. I have a good job and I workout and eat right. However, these are simply expected. They are pre-reqs. I have to do these things to even get a chance at bat. The only people that have effortless success are the super good looking, the super wealthy and the famous. So a very high bar. You give a lot of condescending attitude but here’s the catch, you are depreciating while I’m going up in value every day. You know that be true no matter how much you want it to be false.

  • Kate

    Furious, I’ve got a question for you, if you don’t mind. You say, “Men want a pretty woman that is nice. That’s it.” If a pretty woman who was nice also held a degree, a job, and owned her own home, would that make her less attractive than, more attractive than, or equally as attractive as the “pretty woman that is nice.” I’m genuinely curious.

  • FuriousFerret

    “If a pretty woman who was nice also held a degree, a job, and owned her own home, would that make her less attractive than, more attractive than, or equally as attractive as the “pretty woman that is nice.”

    The girls with degrees and all that shit were much worse than the girl that worked at a video store. Video clerk girl was utlra cute and a little dumb that liked nerd stuff and the degreed women were SWPL type.

    The clerk girl was better when comparing the quality in terms of how a man and woman should be. I believe that the college education leads to indoctrination of entitlement and envy towards men. They all had the attitude of being ‘equals’ but in reality they wanted to be better. I think it’s possible for some women be cool when they leave college, but college and corporate world really do destory some women’s souls. So a degree, job and house actual signal to me that this woman will be standard SWPL entitled girl that wants to control.

    The main point is that women should understand that degree and job don’t increase your sexual value. I know it’s hard for them but they should face reality. Hell, for men today degree and job don’t increase sexual value unless you are wealthy and either a business owner or high up in a coporation.

    So to the answer the question. I guess degree and job is better when looks and niceness are the same but I haven’t been involved with anyone that fits that criteria, since all the women with degrees have had more entitlement and feminist leanings.

  • Kate

    ” So a degree, job and house actual signal to me that this woman will be standard SWPL entitled girl that wants to control.”

    Thanks for your perspective. ^This is what I was beginning to suspect.

    ” I guess degree and job is better when looks and niceness are the same but I haven’t been involved with anyone that fits that criteria…”

    Yes. As you say, in order to achieve these things, generally, a woman’s nature changes, but, if it were theoretically possible, education and responsibility aren’t necessarily bad things at all :)

  • Retrenched

    “At some point you need to be honest with yourself where your market is.”

    Women especially need to look in the mirror after they get pumped and dumped and ask themselves if maybe… MAYBE… they’re punching above their weight.

    “Gee, maybe he’s out of my league? He was able to replace me so easily. Maybe I just don’t have that much to offer men at his level. Hmm.. Maybe I should consider dating guys that don’t already have five girls lined up ready to fuck?”

  • kay

    Kate, understand these type of Men on are here to bash women to make themselves feel better. My Fiancee sister showed me this blog. It outrages me that Men come on here and put women down like this. Yet when its given back to them they find more reasons to preach to a woman. When all I’m simply saying is KNOW YOUR MARKET.

    Kate, only be sweet & submissive to Men who are deserving me. Not these kind of schmucks.

  • kay

    I guarantee that these Men who have to force a woman down does so in order to achieve those falsehood/fantasies they have in their heads. They have to feel better about themselves somehow. Bullies. I imagine they treat women very poorly and probably have to build themselves up while putting her down to feel good about who they really are.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Kay, have you taken the time to read any other posts here?

  • Kate

    Kay: Can you imagine what it would be like to never have known a decent man? Women would be pretty defensive in that case too. My thought is, give them a reason to believe :)

    I get your point about everybody needing to know their level; its just that everyone thinks their level is higher than anyone else’s. Man or woman, that’s just our natural egoistic tendency.

    Kill the ego and live in peace. I’m starting with A New Earth (Eckhart Tolle).

  • deti

    Kay:

    You don’t fool us for a second. What comes onto the screen from you is “know your market”.

    What you’re really saying here is “know your place”.

    Translated, your screeds say “you are shallow little men who would have no hope of dating a fabulous specimen like me. You have no right even to exist, much less talk to each other about women. Get back in your place, little man. Shut up and pay for my birth control pills, my makework job for the Department of Redundancy Department, and my liposuction. Know your place, little man.”

  • Kate

    It is possible to be cognisant of people’s levels and not be a shrew about it. Yesterday, I was approached online by a man who made me a nice compliment. After I thanked him, he then asked if I was only into college guys. I was like, what? No, I don’t want to date college guys. lol He said, your profile says you’re looking for a graduate degree/doctoral degree. I said, oh, yes, I really am looking for someone with that level of education. He said okay, and I said that there is a match for everyone and thanked him for reaching out. I don’t think there were any hurt feelings over it, I hope. I looked at his profile later and he has a high school education. He may be a very fine person, he’s just not for me. The balance would be totally out of wack.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Kay, the first reflex that women have when they encounter the manosphere is the common dismissives they’ve been taught to react with. Even the most marginal of criticism (even positive criticism) about anything that remotely challenges her mindset of feminine primacy is responded to with the standard boilerplate:

    “You think that? You’re all just misogynistic, 50’s throw-back, aging, balding, fatsos, with small dicks, posting from your mom’s basements.”

    The problem is that there’s something more to what you’re reading here that’s bugging you. You can’t be indifferent about it because it factually upsets your previous mind-state of solipsistic self-assurance in feminine primacy. If you were certain in your beliefs you wouldn’t feel compelled to respond.

    The truths here conflict with the ego-investments you’ve been conditioned to believe, so they’re an affront to your ego – they’re literally an attack on your personality, they say “Kay, you’ve been living your life in ignorance.” That’s a hard pill to swallow, ask any guy who already has.

    Your fiancee’s sister sent you to this blog, I’m curious as to why?

    Maybe because she hoped to disabuse you of your fem-centric conditioning before you married her brother? Maybe she thinks her brother deserves better than a woman predisposed to controlling the men in her life? Maybe she was trying to help you?

  • M3

    “I guarantee that these Men who have to force a woman down does so in order to achieve those falsehood/fantasies they have in their heads.”

    A’ight. Think it’s time to stop feeding the troll. It’s getting riled up. Getting ready to levy the rape charges against us beastly men.

    ” I imagine they treat women very poorly and probably have to build themselves up while putting her down to feel good about who they really are.”

    Yes, to treat so poorly as to labor at a woman’s foot, beck and call. To do the heavy lifting that allows you to enjoy the fruits of civilization, not to mention your comfy condo, your fine automobile, the roads you drive on, etc.. no thats not enough, that men cater to your every need, allow you to burn your 20’s away having fun, and then suddenly ‘man up’ and marry you to give you what you need, a marriage, a child, status, checklist complete. He had to work a lifetime to earn, acquire be fit and handsome enough for ya to earn a snowflake like you.

    Then he gets to slave away to keep up the obligations of your imperative and keeping up with the jones’s. He slaves away to maintain the lifestyle your hypergamy demands. And once the demands exceed his ability or his 2 jobs.. you divorce him because he didn’t pay enough attention to you, but Renaldo did, your sexy neighbor, and things moved so fast, it just happened. So the next thing you know, you’re calling the cops on your husband, he’s in jail, you got the house and kids and everything he worked really hard for his entire life.

    Yeah.. there’s lots of guys here who treat their women poorly… not.

    Dumbass.

    Women have agency, intelligence and wherewithal to leave bad relationships quickly. The only men who treat women poorly are the ones who know they can because by the good graces of god.. they genetically got everything women want, and they’re sociopaths only looking out for their own interests, laughing as the women break themselves trying to ‘earn’ his impossible love.

    You won’t find that ‘guy’ on these boards. The only guys you’ll meet here are the one’s who live in the real world, not your fake fantasy fluffy utopian girlworld where you can’t see past your own nose.

    And oh yeah. Read this:

    http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/05/16/hypergamy-doesnt-care/

  • Rollo Tomassi

    He may be a very fine person, he’s just not for me. The balance would be totally out of wack.

    Only in girl-world is this inoffensive, while a man filtering a woman based on her weight is offensive and ‘shallow’.

    Feminine Imperative über alles.

  • Kate

    Well, Rollo, would you advocate that women enter relationships with men “beneath” them and then, consequently, destroy them? Its for everyone’s own good, not just the woman’s.

    A man wanting a beautiful woman doesn’t offend me. If its offensive to want a smart man, then so be it.

    You like to argue, don’t you.

  • FuriousFerret

    @Kate

    “He said, your profile says you’re looking for a graduate degree/doctoral degree. I said, oh, yes, I really am looking for someone with that level of education. ”

    I was going to comment about your level of hypergamy. But I just googled you and now a lot of things surrounding your situation and your comments are starting to make sense. I suppose from your level of success and your business achievements that you really have priced yourself out of the market. When you have more success in the business world than 98 percent of men out there your standards must be sky high.

    I guess that’s the hard cold truth though. By achieving all these accomplishments you feel that no guy is worthy of you. The men that you have your field of vision for are extremely small and they are very high value. The harsh reality is that because of your age and children, it’s a very slim chance that any of these men with options would commit to you. So bascially every single guy you go out with has to have major success or education along with social chrisma, looks, etc because you have achieved your way out of truely holding most men above you.

    Damn lady, now I do feel for you. I guess accolades and success really do have a dark underbelly for women. Well at least you slim and classy looking, but even that must twist the knife deeper. Knowing that you have some beauty along with great success but still can’t compete with the young hot women that are considerably dumber than you are yet still snag the alphas that you want simply because youth plus beauty trumps old age, accomplishment and good looks. Then you add in that most men don’t want a competitor and it gets even worse.

    Well Kate, at least you seem like a nice person. Now I can understand why you are having dating troubles and can’t simply settle. Surprised that you were an Aussie.

    http://katekendall.com/whois/

  • Kate

    I’d love to keep your sympathy, but that’s not me :)

  • M3

    Kate, just think of the reaction of a man said what you said verbatim, gender swapped.

    ” I was like, what? No, I don’t want to date landwhales of a woman. lol (She explodes in rage and destroys the computer is what really happens but lets continue…) She said, your profile says you’re looking for a nice “well rounded” woman who likes to cook. I said, oh, yes, I really am looking for someone with that level of femininity and pleasant demeanor. She said okay, and I said that there is a match for everyone and thanked her for reaching out. I don’t think there were any hurt feelings over it, I hope. I looked at her profile later and she has a 450lb manatee. She may be a very fine person, she’s just not for me. The balance would be totally out of wack.” (and launch me into orbit with such a weight counterbalancing my own)

    Imagine if i went and wrote that on a ‘fat acceptance’ website or a feminist blog. They’d come looking for me to string me up by my balls.

    Related:

    http://theprivateman.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/how-women-turn-men-into-pickup-artists/

  • FuriousFerret

    “I’d love to keep your sympathy, but that’s not me ”

    Well I feel stupid now. Looks like you.

  • FuriousFerret

    Hey, if that’s not you, some super business woman, why the fuck do you demand a grad/doctoral degree?

  • Kate

    Honestly, M3. I never point blank said I didn’t want to date men with high school edcations to this man- even though its true- I simply reponded to his incoherent question with an honest answer.

    No need to feel stupid, Furious. Why do I have to be a super business woman to want someone with more of a pedigree than I have? I also don’t want to be with a smoker. I like people who are fit: mentally and physically. And, finally, as I alluded to above, I have no desire to lead men who can’t keep up around by the nose. Maybe some women might like that, but it repulses me. I don’t want/need orbiters. Its degrading to others.

  • itsme

    Your fiancee’s sister sent you to this blog, I’m curious as to why?

    her fiance’s sister hates her and pointed her here to cause her head to explode.

    seems like it’s working…

  • itsme

    If a pretty woman who was nice also held a degree, a job, and owned her own home, would that make her less attractive than, more attractive than, or equally as attractive as the “pretty woman that is nice.”

    concur with ff, at best these things will do nothing for her smv, and in all probability will lower it.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Its for everyone’s own good, not just the woman’s.

    A man wanting a beautiful woman doesn’t offend me. If its offensive to want a smart man, then so be it.

    From a strictly pragmatic viewpoint I’d agree with you, but unfortunately in girl-world one of those perspectives makes a man a deplorable, shallow, prick, while the other makes a woman prudent and judicious. It all depends on who’s paradigm controls the social narrative.

    We all end up with the people we deserve, even if sometimes that person is no one.

  • Kate

    Ah, yes, the “you’ll end up alone” argument. Its very possible. In the meantime, I try to be useful without being used.

  • itsme

    Well, Rollo, would you advocate that women enter relationships with men “beneath” them

    so this guy who you didn’t even bother getting to know further is ‘beneath’ you because he doesn’t have a college degree?

    and then, consequently, destroy them?

    wow, just….wow. destroy is what occurred to you.

    kate, a feminine woman can lift a man up, inspire him to be better.

    I never point blank said I didn’t want to date men with high school edcations to this man- even though its true… Why do I have to be a super business woman to want someone with more of a pedigree than I have?

    has it not occurred to you that there might be a substantial number of men who meet all of your other requirements but who may not have college degrees?

  • M3

    “I also don’t want to be with a smoker. I like people who are fit: mentally and physically. And, finally, as I alluded to above, I have no desire to lead men who can’t keep up around by the nose. Maybe some women might like that, but it repulses me.”

    Kate, it’s absolutely fine and rational for you to want to select people you’re attracted to.

    By the same token, it seems like you’re trying to deny men that in the same breath. That men *should* look either to lower their standards and date fat women OR that they *should* find all your accomplishments attractive, and be super accomplished and attractive themselves.

    Looks like you’re swimming in a really tiny pool. The end up alone argument isn’t meant as a slight, it’s a reality that you really are disqualifying so many men because YOU have achieved so much, but now you want men higher than you to choose instead of disqualify you based on things that are insignificant and even detrimental to attraction (a tough as nails, super tough, domineering, bossy, careerist, successful business woman who’s made it in a man’s world by acting like a man).

    You have a hill to climb. A taller one than most average women.

    Again, not meant as a slight.. but a reality you seem keenly aware of and appear to accept.

  • M3

    “has it not occurred to you that there might be a substantial number of men who meet all of your other requirements but who may not have college degrees?”

    thats the problem when you live by a checklist 467 bullet points long. You might eliminate a guy who’s great at 422 of them, but you nixed him when he failed #7 on the enumerated list.

    Then when you’re older and not quite ripe.. you get mad because you have to settle for the guy who can only meet 37 points on the list because Mr. 422 points is now good at 446 points and dating someone 7 years younger than you.

    But you just had to have college educated at #7 didn’t ya.

    Bill Gates or Steve Jobs would not have cut the muster.

  • Kate

    Yes, itsme. That’s the brutal truth. I can know very quickly whether a guy is someone I can respect or not. The argument that other things are more important than intelligence is the woman’s argument that her personality is more important than her obesity. What other qualification could be more imporant? This is the ONE univerally accepted symbol of intelligence as well as an indication of a person’s grit due to the dedication/hard-work/etc. it takes to earn one. I understand your point and I’m sorry this is offensive. I understand that women can inspire men. I have played that role many times. I no longer have any interest (due to my age and the age of the men I should be looking for) in fixer-uppers. What kind of 40-55 year old should need my help to make something of himself. That work should be behind him at this point.

  • M3

    “ts for everyone’s own good, not just the woman’s.

    A man wanting a beautiful woman doesn’t offend me. If its offensive to want a smart man, then so be it.”

    Perhaps you need a refresher in the concepts of sexual rank and TheWall and how those 2 interact.

    It’s in a woman’s best interest to pick a little lower than her instead of punching equal or above her weight. As age happens, he gets better, your looks fade. He gets more options, you lose options. If the ranks are equal or he is much higher than you in terms of options, more than likely you’re going to end up getting dropped or cheated on. Some women don’t mind this. You need to decide if you’re a harem girl or ready to entertain mistresses in your future mans love life.

    If you pick a little lower, you can build him up, and as age happens, the ranks even out. He doesn’t feel the need to stray, you have a great guy.

    “Behind every great man there is a greater women”. < If a great man got there by himself, he doesn't need you. If you dropped your mighty expectations and chose a little humbler, you'd end up with that great man and be his greater woman.

  • Kate

    “That men *should* look either to lower their standards and date fat women OR that they *should* find all your accomplishments attractive”

    If this is what is getting conveyed, then I’m not expressing myself well. I don’t think men should lower their standards. On the other hand, doesn’t it seem kind of strange that a woman should feel almost apologetic that she’s got a stable job, can pay her mortgage, and got these things through a degree?

    I am in a tiny pool. A sixty mile search for age, non smoking, advanced degree yields about 30 men. And some of those are in a bordering country.

    I don’t think I’ve achieved all that much in the grand scheme of things, really. And just for clarifiation, I am a teacher, not a business woman.

  • Kate

    Thank you for the refresher, M3, but asking a woman to lower her standards in this regard is the same as telling a man to accept fat women and just help her lose weight.

    “If a great man got there by himself, he doesn’t need you.” Exactly. You know women want men who don’t need them.

  • FuriousFerret

    @Kate

    You won’t run out of men to be with, you’re thin. In the land of the obesity epidemic, being slim is worth it’s weight in gold. However, being thin isn’t enough combined with age for the men that you want to commit.

    I think Kate is a shining example of how much being thin means today. It of itself gives enormous power. Women that are slim never ever truly settle. I guess that’s what makes them easy marks for pump n dump. Whereas a man can improve himself later in life and correct the mistakes he was making, a woman can’t turn back the clock. Being thin gives her enough hope to hold on for one of the few high value men. Just enough rope to hang her self from a commitment stand point.

  • itsme

    @kate,

    it’s okay to want an intelligent man. however,

    This is the ONE univerally accepted symbol of intelligence as well as an indication of a person’s grit due to the dedication/hard-work/etc. it takes to earn one

    even if you believe that a man with a college degree is ipso facto intelligent, it does not automatically follow that intelligent men must have college degrees. i.e. those intelligent men with college degrees are only a subset of intelligent men.

    by instantly disqualifying intelligent men without college degrees, you’re discarding a chunk of an already small demographic (successful, intelligent single 40-55 year old who want to settle down with a single mom in her 30’s).

    What kind of 40-55 year old should need my help to make something of himself

    success and accomplishments require intelligence, but they don’t require a college degree.

  • Kate

    Regarding commitment: its a scary thing. You want it in theory, but then you think about how it makes you complacent and the risk of a legal commitment and you wonder if that’s what you want at all.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Relevant:

    http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12/14/womens-standards-crumble-easily-given-the-right-incentives/

    I realize Kate’s getting off on all the extra attention here, but the dynamic Roissy illustrates in this post needs to be considered. There’s a lesson to be learned here.

    While Kate would have us all believe that a university degree is required to get her out of her pants, my guess is that given the proper ‘real time’ incentive this wouldn’t be nearly the deal breaker she’d like us to think it is.

    It’s not as if any of my readers need another reminder as to why using Buffers like online dating is a bad idea, but here it is. Had this guy made his ‘approach’ in a club or some other social setting the odds are much more in his favor than the readily searchable convenience of the internet. He has no idea who she is or what her LTR pre-reqs are, she has no idea whether the prefix of his name is ‘doctor’, and the dynamic is much more weighted in his favor.

    Once again, given the proper real time incentives I think a post graduate degree would be much less of an issue than an online environment would suggest. If the guy made Kate feel the right way, she’d say that it was fate or some divine chance that allowed her to look past her petty wants and really connect with him.

    And maybe that’s why Kate is predisposed to online dating, because in the real world the guys possessing the right incentive simply aren’t making that approach. How many Doctors will take her seriously when she would have them believe it’s their brillant doctor minds she craves and not their socio-economic status?

    People lost their shit when I wrote Women in Love and Love & War, because I suggested that women love opportunistically and men love idealistically. Yet when the example is revealed, it just is what it is.

  • Kate

    You’ll have no argument on that from me, Rollo. I am well aware I’m a sitting duck; that’s WHY I do online dating. I am trying not to sleep with the entire world, ya know :)

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Kind of ironic don’t you think? Online you advertise yourself to the whole world and decline all but the most elite. In the real world your cover story is fear of being a sitting duck, but I’d wager far less approaches (if any) are as forthcoming.

  • deti

    I am loving, LOVING, the exchanges Kate is having here.

    Kate has astronomical standards for men in the online world. Only a grad/professional/doctorate degree will do.

    But Rollo points out that in the real world, a real time incentive would crumble her standards and Kate would be willing to respond favorably to a man who didn’t meet her lofty standards.

    Then Kate AGREES, and says

    “You’ll have no argument on that from me, Rollo. I am well aware I’m a sitting duck; that’s WHY I do online dating. I am trying not to sleep with the entire world, ya know ”

    Game and social dynamics confirmed again. Kate, essentially you’ve just confessed you’d fuck a douchebag if he pushed all your buttons. Yet, you want a sugar daddy, a “safe” guy, to date, so as to save you from yourself.

    Wow. Just…..WOW.

    Good call, Rollo. Kate, you might be a smart woman; but you’re still a woman.

    Tingles uber alles. God help the Ph.D. who dates you, because you won’t really be attracted to him; and you’ll be settling for him, and you will end up not respecting him.

  • DeNihilist

    Kate, some of the most uncommo- sense people I work for are degreed. Doctors, lawyers, engineers especially. Thank God they have money, or their houses would fall down around their ears. Intelligence a piece of paper does not make.

  • Kate

    “Kind of ironic don’t you think? Online you advertise yourself to the whole world and decline all but the most elite. In the real world your cover story is fear of being a sitting duck, but I’d wager far less approaches (if any) are as forthcoming.”

    Online is a safe zone. One is free to be themselves when they are relatively anonymous. Plus, its educational. This particular arena allows for a lot of honesty. Regular people can’t handle these truths. I don’t need to shock people more than I already do.

    ” Kate, essentially you’ve just confessed you’d fuck a douchebag if he pushed all your buttons. Yet, you want a sugar daddy, a “safe” guy, to date, so as to save you from yourself.”

    “Kate, you might be a smart woman; but you’re still a woman.”

    Of course I’m a woman! That means I’ve fallen for men with records, addictions, etc. I’m not a woman who thinks she’s immune to game. I’m not actually looking for someone with money so that I can have some. I like men who have money because then they don’t want/need mine. I don’t want a “safe” guy. I want someone who is a mixture. And although there is some desire to save me from myself, its also about saving others from myself.

    “God help the Ph.D. who dates you, because you won’t really be attracted to him; and you’ll be settling for him, and you will end up not respecting him.”

    No, this is what I’m saying I refuse to do.

    DeNihilist: I should have been saying “intellectual” versus “intelligent.” I appreciate people who can teach me things about books, art, music, philosophy, etc. And shoot a gun :)

  • deti

    “I want someone who is a mixture.”

    Once again: you want the unicorn. You want the man who is alpha when you want; beta when you want. You want the man who is strong and rough (only when you want) and tender and kind (but not TOO much.).

    “No, this is what I’m saying I refuse to do.”

    Whatever, Kate. The reason you want the grad/Ph.D. man is for the security. You’ll hamsterize yourself into dating him but you won’t really feel attracted to him. Then you’ll suddenly realize you’re unhaaaaaaappy and either end the relationship or make everyone’s lives miserable.

  • itsme

    Online is a safe zone. One is free to be themselves when they are relatively anonymous.

    lolz!

    no, one is free to be anything they want to be online. this is not necessarily themselves.

    it’s ‘safe’ only in the sense that it keeps you safe from reality. which is fine if you only ever want an online relationship.

  • Kate

    deti: “Whatever, Kate. The reason you want the grad/Ph.D. man is for the security. You’ll hamsterize yourself into dating him but you won’t really feel attracted to him. Then you’ll suddenly realize you’re unhaaaaaaappy and either end the relationship or make everyone’s lives miserable.”

    No. You’re not hearing me. I don’t need security from someone else. Therefore, I have the privilege of loving people for who they are, not what they can provide for me. This is a double-edged sword since, as we discussed earlier in the thread, financial independence, while a turn on to women, is practically a turn off to men. I could have married a couple of men who fit this category in the last few years, but, I’m not interested in making anyone’s life miserable.

    This is all very interesting to me, but I’m going to take a break now.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I’d argue that you’re more anonymous at a club or a social setting than you’ll ever be online.

    People think they’re safely anonymous online when it’s actually the opposite.

    How long did it take Ferret to come up with the Kate Kendall site? Even if it’s not you, you get the idea.

  • deti

    Kate:

    The man’s degrees qualify him as high status and worthy of your respect.

    That’s what I mean by “security”. You want the security of being with a high status man and that he finds you worthy of commitment and is attracted to you.

    The “security” you want does not provide goods and services. No. The “security” you want is one which affirms and validates your value, your attractiveness, and that a high status man found you worthy of commitment.

  • Kate

    Well, I do try to practice safe cybering, Father Rollo.

    @deti: Ah.

    Okay, breaking for real now! A cheeseburger is calling my name :)

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It’s your presumptions, not your practices.

  • FuriousFerret

    “I am loving, LOVING, the exchanges Kate is having here.”

    This is very interesting. The pattern with the women that frequent CH and the Rational Male and hell Hooking Up Smart is that they are simply trying to find a way to get alphas to commit to them.

    Look at Kate. She reads these blogs everyday and gets all the great information and still filters it down to what she wants the data and message to mean. A single mom in her 30s still has super high expectations even after knowning from Rollo and Roissy that this is a fantasy. The reason she visits is she is trying to find a way to game the system. However, time is a brutal mistress. She is never going to find her prince because that window of opportunity is over, if it ever existed in the first place. It seems like almost all the women on CH, Roissy and HUS don’t really want to be given and accept the practical advice to turn lemons into lemonade. They simply want to know how they can snag their alpha and with minimal change at that.

    Be hot, thin and young while having a feminine nice personality. That’s it. If you’re not that, then modify you attraction to where your value actually is. You can at least work on the feminine personality.

    Kate and the HUS girls stamp their feet when given the advice by Aunt Giggles that they need to modify their attraction for upper betas because they simply aren’t attractive for alphas and shouldn’t be playing with fire when they doused in social gasoline. How many women really change their personalities to feminine? Almost none. They can’t deviate from the social herd. They need the herd and are cowards to do what men have to do to succeed.

    Contrast that to the message here. You need to be eating healthy and working out. No excuses. You need to learn game. No excuses. You need to be bold and not be a pussy. No excuses. Mangina herd mainstream mentality is not allowed no matter what the social blowback is. We have to fight the crabs that want to pull us in the bucket, but we do it. Women simply are unable to do this it seems.

    It’s also interesting to notice that artistic, createive women seem to be able to resist the herd. The artistic women are so special/different that they just can’t fit in and such intense frame that they naturally resist the harshiest parts of indoctrination. They are too focused on a creative pursuits and/or their brain chemistry is so too different to be bothered with herd nonsense. Also these women tend to be pretty even when they don’t have perfect symmetry and they have certain specialness about them. However these women don’t grow on trees as the women that simply play act in the form being hipsters (pseudo rockstars) aren’t actually really creative or artistic and very much have a herd mentality just directed into a different sub group.

    I believe the stance by these women is because beta males today are how we view fat women. They are replusive. Where in the past beta males weren’t that bad simply because they acted like men. Today the beta is an unacceptable fate to women. Just like a fattie is a replusive to most men. Feminization has destroyed men to women just as processed food has destroyed women to men. It’s either go big or go xbox for men and go slim and at least try not to be a bitch or get cats for women.

  • deti

    Furious:

    “The pattern with the women that frequent CH and the Rational Male and hell Hooking Up Smart is that they are simply trying to find a way to get alphas to commit to them.”

    Exactly. Women like Kate are attractive enough for beta commitment. They can get alphas only for pump and dumps. They come to places like HUS and here and Heartiste because they are in a dilemma: The alphas are sexy, and these women want them for sex; but they won’t commit.

    They want betas for comfort and commitment, but they don’t want to have sex with those betas. Or, more accurately, they don’t want to HAVE to have sex with those betas.

    They want to be married, but they don’t want to be married to the men who are willing to marry them.

    They want the unicorn man: The alpha with just enough beta to make them comfortable. They want the danger of the alpha, but with the safety of the beta.

  • deti

    Kate will never, ever find her Harley-riding, leather-jacket wearing, history professor. She’ll never find her nice guy who can turn on the asshole. She’ll never find her George Clooney clone who drops to one knee and pledges undying love.

  • Date Down « M3

    [...] a current meme developing in the comment section on both The Rational Male and The Private Man where the female commenters are basically going to this [...]

  • M3

    I wonder if the lookup was accurate. Are we sure this isn’t Kate Bollick?

  • Kate

    Aren’t men looking for unicorns too though? I mean, we all want an ideal, but that may or may not be what we end up with.

    The problem with women marrying men they really aren’t attracted to is it leads to divorce. How does that help anything? So, what is the solution?

    And when I write about what I want, I am thinking of actual people I know- they exist. I can’t speak to any of this HUS stuff as I’ve never posted there. I’ve read a few articles and she doesn’t seem to be the devil incarnate she’s characterized as. It seems men just have the same reaction to women’s perspectives as women do to men’s here.

  • M3

    @ Kate
    “The problem with women marrying men they really aren’t attracted to is it leads to divorce. How does that help anything? So, what is the solution?”

    Educating girls to stop having unrealistic expectations of what special snowflakes are entitled to and deserving of.

    Their attraction triggers are screwed beyond all belief because they’ve been sold the ideal mate in their mind from which they can’t escape. Alpha’s can give that to them, but it’s not in the Alpha’s interest to commit without one hell of a payoff a majority of women cannot/are not willing to provide. Tnkgrrrl attitude will do that.

    Women’s ego’s need to be brought back under control.. not subjugating men’s natural attraction triggers. A return to equalized sex ranks, not a world where majority of men find a majority of women attractive while a majority of women find a MINORITY of men attractive.

    Bring back attractive value to traditional male traits of character and value rather than superficial douchebaggery tingle inducements.

    Etc…

  • Ton

    My new job will pay a little under 180k while working 45 days on, 45 days off yet I am unintelligent because I do not have a degree and am therefore beneath this woman?

    Guess I will have to spend my money on someone younger and hotter

  • Kate

    Go for it, Ton. To each his/her own.

  • M3

    “I don’t need security from someone else. Therefore, I have the privilege of loving people for who they are, not what they can provide for me.”

    Kate. Real question.

    What are you looking for in a man? Because i can find you a lot of homeless vagabonds that are pretty decent in the rugged looks department. You can love them for who they are without needing to provide for you.

    Then ask yourself.. why bother with a relationship and/or marriage? Your privilege is what holds you back. You focus on the top men who feel no need to do anything for women except utilize them for sex (unless genetically superior and acts the part of a lady). You ignore those men who’s natural desire is to be with women who *need* them. Men want to be needed by their women. You’ve removed that requisite.

    You have everything you need taken care of by yourself except companionship. As you said, you don’t need someone to provide for you. You don’t need the riggors and trappings of yesterdays model of traditional marriage. What you want is a real high status dude to be with for a bit.

    So go get him. And when he bounces. Get another one. Rinse repeat.

    You have everything you need. The men you want are obviously not the traditional beta provider types. Feminism removed the need for you to find that attractive in a mate. You want looks. You want upper education. You want status. You want the narcissist, not joe average everyman. You want all the things every other girl on the planet wants without showing why you deserve it.

    Without giving him a reason to commit, because you do not rely on him in any way besides just sharing a bed and showing him off to your girlfriends to make them jealous and try and mate poach you.

    So enjoy him for a while, rinse repeat, for as long as it lasts.

    It’s apparently how you want it.

    Don’t forget.. sperm banks are still open too. Live the dream, have it all!

  • Kate

    M3: Real answer. A companion I can admire.

    “Your privilege is what holds you back.” I KNOW! It always has. It has either put men off or attracted ones who wanted in on the family assets. What is there to do about that. Quit my job? Lose my house? All so I can be in a position to “need” a man? It doesn’t make any sense!

    You know my own family doctor said to me how motherhood so became me, was I thinking of having more children. She knew I was divorced. I said, shouldn’t I be remarried first? She said not everybody does it that way but that she wouldn’t be comfortable being unmarried either. That is not something I want to do and I’m really too old to have more children now anyway. Its very hard on your body for almost two years straight and then it lets up some, but it still requires a lot of energy I just don’t have.

    I’d like to be a respectable woman very much, but I just can’t seem to find any way to fit into the culture.

  • kay

    Kate, they are going to argue you down about what you want..LOL. All the while adamant about what they expect. Its ok for them to do, not you. haha. My Fiancee sister directed this blog to me because she has been talking about these Manosphere blogs and red pill etc.. how Men trying to run “game” – its funny actually. My Fiancee tells her that they cannot do it genuinely like he was always able to do. Good Luck guys – keep running the game & may it pay off eventually for you.

  • Rooster

    “My Fiancee tells her that they cannot do it genuinely like he was always able to do.”
    LMFAO! Let Mr Casanova-natural-game-extreme-edition join in the discussion. I’m sure we’ll all be fascinated and eager to soak up his game-wisdom. Hopefully he’ll regale us with heroic tales of how he wrestled Princess Kay’s aggressively defensive personality into the pinnacle of feminine delicacy.
    Your guy sounds almost mythical. Almost as if he doesn’t exist.

  • FuriousFerret

    ““Your privilege is what holds you back.” I KNOW! It always has. It has either put men off or attracted ones who wanted in on the family assets. What is there to do about that. Quit my job? Lose my house? All so I can be in a position to “need” a man? It doesn’t make any sense! ”

    That’s bullshit and you know it. Being a mid 30s single mother that doesn’t accept her options is what is holding you back. All this my job and blah blah is the real reason is an excuse and you know it. The reason the high powered job and such is unattractive is because of the type that woman must be become to attain it. They sold their feminity to become what the feminazi society wanted. Men are equally guilty of this, we gave up our masculinity to appease the culture and we have paid the price dearly.

    Kate, the only people that win in this thing are women prone to masculinity that were designated unsightly abominations on a healthy society and effeminate men that were pushed to the back of the line. They have redrawn society to cater to the needs of their minority thus fucking you and every other should have been normal person. You’re a victim of this thing as well.

    What you should do is really just accept the manicorn isn’t coming for you. You should really make a choice. Have flings with alphas or commit to a greater beta. The problem is that you have had too much sex with attractive men and it’s made the betas that your mind says you should want for security to be biologically off puting. You are being asked to go from driving a BMW your whole life to settling for a KIA and it’s not going to sit well.

    I think for the sake of your daughter just get with a beta and since you have all this knowledge at your fingertips maybe you can be the lucky few that can reform from the cock caroseul pyschological damage and have a good life with your guy. The caroseul has it’s consequences, you will feel periods that you resent your guy simply because you have had so much better but you are in a position that few other women are, you have read Rollo and CH, you know the score. You can moderate your feelings because you know where they come from and the reason behind it where most women will not. You don’t have to end up bitter and resentful in the your next relationship because you are equipped to deal with damage. Plus you are still attractive and you seem nice. You can find a pretty decent greater beta but he’s probably going to be little bit boring and not anywhere near as exciting as the alphas that you’ve had.

    @Kay

    “My Fiancee tells her that they cannot do it genuinely like he was always able to do.”

    If he ended up with you, I doubt he’s that good with women. Hey has your Fiancee read the the Rational Male? Let him read the archives and have him tell us how he disagrees. No harm in doing that right?

  • Kate

    I understand what you’re saying, Furious, but until I was 33, I’d only been with one man- my ex-husband. So, let’s not get carried away with this carousel idea. You are, however, perfectly right that too much alpha influence can make other men seem less interesting. What I need to do is just give things a little more time to heal from the last breakdown and then I’ll probably be in a better position to appreciate others again. I appreciate all the help from everyone today. I wasn’t expected to get into such a long conversation, but I am always grateful to have people looking out for me.

  • kay

    go ahead guys & assault away. You cannot even pick up dry sense of humor of what my Fiancee was saying. Most of you are so defensive! Always ready to attack. Ready to put a female in her place so she will cower and hold you up on some proverbial throne of where you do not belong. You will never attract the female you seek.
    no woman will trust you enough to be vunerable to you to give you what you desire.
    Kate.. they continue to attack you. Put you on the defense. Making sure you understand you are nothing special. You see this is their game. Don’t let them get into your head.

  • FuriousFerret

    @Kate

    I feel what you’re saying. America is a fucked up place right now for both men and women. Women aren’t these evil little monsters. They simply have been manipulated as well as men in being something they were never intended to be leading to a whole shit load of problems. Most men and women are victims to unjust social engineering by genetic abominations that wanted to make their status better bringing everybody down to their level.

  • FuriousFerret

    @kay

    Has your Fiancee read the site? Why doesn’t he read it and then it can critque it in person. 3:)

  • Kate

    Its alright, Kay. The truth is, I’m not anyone special to those who don’t know me, like family, friends, neighbors, colleagues, community members. This is how the world works. It takes time to get to know and learn to value people. Until then, you’re just another body on the planet. Don’t worry. This has been cathartic for me and was probably more painful for my interlocuters than for me. (And for me it was pretty DEPRESSING.) You see, you have your fiance to talk things over with; I don’t have that go to person. You take people where you can find them :) Not everybody is willing to talk about these things.

  • M3

    Kate,

    I’m glad you’re still in it. I don’t think anyone here is saying you’re a horrible person. The fact that you are actually having a catharsis is refreshing, given what “we” normally see from our vantage point.. vapid, naked solipsism.

    We’ve all had our moment, we call it the ‘Redpill’ moment. Yeah, it’s depressing as hell when the world you knew gets pulled out from under you and you realize “Fuck.. i’ve been lied to all this time?’

    At the end of the day it’s about knowing you need to make a choice, and be able to live with that choice, own it, and take responsibility for it without passing the buck. This is what we try and teach. We’re harsh, even brutal about it at times, but that’s how we operate. Fluffy Utopian ideals die hard in the face of science, biological truth and empirical evidence about repeated behaviors. Game couldn’t exist without observable repetition and verification. We’re also vicious because it’s the same argument that comes back at us with every new woman that comes in here to tell us we’re wrong, and go through the same time consuming process to either get their minds gears turning or have them explode in a fit of rage and crawl away to cry among their girlfriends about how evil we are for not accepting their views of GirlWorld at face value. We’ve heard it once too often.

    I had my last 2 years to ponder, every guy in this section of the internet has had his. Many women have had theirs out here too. It’s not just a collection of men. There are female voices. Just not as many for obvious reasons. These are issues that mainly pertain to men and rarely do women find it in themselves to ask the serious questions and dig for the truth. The socially constructed form of GirlWorld is so much easier to live in. Ignorance is bliss.

    We never said what we tell you was going to be easy to accept. We only told you it would be the truth.

    If you can accept that. It’s a start on your journey. For what it’s worth, i appreciate you wanting to discover, whether you agree with it or not. Whether you believe it or not, we’re actually helping you.

  • Ton

    She’s a pretentious snob at best M3; reread her post.

  • Kate

    Thank, M3. Oh, I don’t think people are being malicious. I’ve been at this discovery process for four years and I’ve learned a lot, but I’ve leared the most in the last year reading these blogs.

    @Ton: And you are a materialist, my dear. Without knowing you, your $180 grand a year means nothing. People live well on a lot less.

    @deti: I know you didn’t mean it to be funny, but I couldn’t help picturing a guy on a motorcycle with the back of his leather jacket saying, “Hell’s Historian.”

  • Twan

    sorry if i’m repeating someone, but my ADD won’t allow me to read every comment. check this out, even being reported on nbc, a bastion of knee-jerk leftie-ness

    http://todayhealth.today.com/_news/2013/01/24/16664866-fat-shaming-may-curb-obesity-bioethicist-says

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