Well, let’s look at the last 5 posts of Rollo and the last 5 of Heartiste:

Rollo:

Women Studies – (women oblivious/denying hypergamy, this is just PUA’s Anti-Slut Defense and Tyler’s Secret Society concepts reworded)

Play Nice – (“nice guys” being fake, this is just Jeffy’s “Surprise, I have a penis” concept, but the notion of nice guys not being attractive because they’re hiding their true intentions goes back waaaaay into early PUA stuff, I’m too lazy to search it out and fastseduction.com where articles about that are probably located is pretty broken these days)

Girls on the Side – (game being an adaptation to a fucked up SMP that women created is just common knowledge in PUA circles, pretty much since Day 1 we’ve all known that PUA game has just been reverse-engineered and is a way of adapting and succeeding in what seemed like an unfair/impossible market)

Girl’s Night Out – (jealousy stuff, this is just PUA’s Abundance Mindset (a recent re-labelling of a concept) but the teachings of how to handle a GNO go way back in PUA stuff…fastseduction and fasterseduction has pretty much solidified into a formula the concept of using Soft Next’s and Hard Next’s to punish bad behavior, manage jealousy, reward good behavior, handle other AMOGs, whether to ask a girl how her night was, etc., etc.)

Just Get It – (this is just PUA’s “change her mood, not her mind”, and “lead the interaction” and “show, don’t tell” etc. concepts that any new AFC to the community learns about, how women won’t state or often don’t even know what they really want…it’s been long-term knowledge in the PUA community that we understand women’s desires better than they do)

Heartiste:

Asstenuating Circumstances – (a field report that basically just demonstrates frame control, a PUA concept from way back)

Your GF is Flirting With Your Friend – (basic Mystery Method social circle/group management, DHVing, AMOGing, jealousy, etc.)

(skipping the Virgin Mormon one cause it’s tl;dr to me lol)

How To Do Anniversaries The Alpha Way – (basic PUA don’t supplicate stuff, don’t reward her for no reason or for shitty behavior or just because she wants it, etc. all stuff you learn pretty much on day 1 of studying PUA)

(skipping some shitty posts)

How To Respond To Girls Who Call Out Game – (PUAs have been discussing this and testing this since literally before The Game was published, because we go through that crisis every time some game stuff goes mainstream…we did it at The Game, we did it at the theoretical movie that was going to be made, we did it when Mystery’s VH1 show came out, etc. now the community has moved into more Natural game but my point is that this brand new post is basically a PUA discussion from 10 years ago)

Women Gossip To Compete For Men – (basic Mystery Method working group dynamics juggling stuff, jealousy plotlines, playing girls off eachother, etc.)

My point isn’t that PUAs are better or anything, it’s just that 90% of the stuff in the Manosphere is just stuff PUAs have already figured out years ago, but reworded and streamlined to make it more digestible to the general Manosphere readers who aren’t going to pick up and read Mystery Method or watch the 20 hour Blueprint, but who are going to skim their favorite blog during their work lunch hour and pick up some useful tips/concepts to think about or try out.

And like I say, I think the Manosphere is needed for that. But the concepts it’s coming up with aren’t anything new if you’ve been in the PUA community for a while. Even the word “hypergamy”, which I admit isn’t a term I heard till I read the Manosphere, is basically the same concept as “women are attracted to higher value” which is a concept that goes back to the start of PUA.

“Who is nearer the cutting edge right now…. RSD / Love Systems / PUA Training etc vs Rollo, Roissy, Roosh etc.”

RSD is light-years ahead of everyone, they’re pushing the boundaries and breaking new ground. Their multiple video articles per week are all really solid (aside from their current focus on how important a wingman is, which is just marketing bullshit to sell the Inner circle club they’re starting…skip back a few pages in the Articles section to the good meaty videos).

Love Systems in my opinion is the next best group, but I’d say LS focuses more on solidifying and teaching already established concepts. I’d actually recommend a newbie start with LoveSystems, and then when they’re feeling intermediate/advances in LS’ traditional style of game, move into RSD stuff where they’re doing retarded things. A newbie trying out RSD’s ideas is going to be getting kicked out of bars and beaten up and shit lol

So basically RSD is paving new ground, LS is solidfying the old ground (not an insult, I think this is important, they’re like the guys who make the textbook for students to learn the ideas where RSD is the crazy scientist trying out ridiculous lab experiments and blowing themselves up a bunch while making occasional new discoveries). Most other companies are just taking RSD/LS stuff and rehashing it. Love the Simple Pickup guys but they’re just rewording game concepts (“being in state” = “god mode”, etc.). Other companies are focusing more on all-around “lifestyle building” instead of focusing entirely on chasing pussy, and that’s cool tool, that’s important and less “absorb your life” intense and some guys need to work on more than just their skills with women to get their shit together as men.

“The manosphere has specialised in the next big pioneering step… bringing sociology and deep social mapping into Game, grounding the work you do in-set into a sophisticated and nuanced worldview…”

I think that’s the important part of what the Manosphere does, and I think that’s part of the influence/crossover with the MRA/MGTOW crowd, which I say is a good thing. That’s how you make something more digestible to the casual crowd of men who don’t want to go out 4+ nights a week approaching girls and instead want to just improve their marriage or flirt around their office or they’re 30+ and don’t want to go to bars etc.

And that’s cool, but the concepts they’re using come from the PUA community and they’re still using the “Lite”/digestible versions of those concepts. The Manosphere has made up this whole gay “Dark Triad” concept (I think it came from SoSuave? I don’t follow SoSuave as close because they’re just White Knights trying to apply the least offensive PUA concepts as possible lol) to separate itself from the “bad” PUA concepts. I haven’t seen much in the Manosphere that’s really controversial/offensive because everything is toned down. The PUA community has some stuff in it that’s legit sociopath type shit, but from that we learned a lot about human psychology and why certain things work.

Like the post that made me start posting in the Manosphere was The Shocker post on Heartiste where BradP’s opener (from yeaaaaars ago) was brought up and analyzed and tossed aside as impossible and wouldn’t work and silly. I had to go in and explain why it works for him and even then no way anyone in that comment section was going out and trying it. To me, that’s the Manosphere still being way behind PUA tech that’s been tried and tested. So that’s why I say they’re still playing catch-up to us.

The reason I can add pages-long in-depth explanations and clarifications to pretty much every Manosphere article posted is because I have years-worth of knowledge and experience with each of the subjects because they’ve been around the PUA community since pretty much the beginning. Concepts the guys here are discussing are concepts I was taught about by the PUA community and experiencing first-hand in my first year of going out sarging.

I’d say PUAs are more like “Hey, women chase higher value, so to use that make sure you do such and such tactic”, whereas the Manosphere is like “Hey, women chase higher value, let’s explore why that is in-depth”. And that’s cool, but it’s all mental masturbation because if you were going out you’d start to understand the “why” of it yourself from experience, and the guys who are reading articles on why women chase higher value aren’t given any tools to go out and explore it with. The end result is a whole bunch of really smart guys who still aren’t getting laid. :)

“I just don’t think there’s much left to advance there and I’m not expecting any paradigm shifts anytime soon.”

I think the focus of the two is different (PUA is unashamedly about women/attraction, whereas the Manosphere is more about overall life stuff), but a lot of PUA companies (including RSD) are expanding into the “handle your life in general and be an overall cool guy” and internal game teaching too.

This video by Tyler sums it up good (good part is around 8:05):

He says the main reason the PUA community stresses going out is because we know that the field will shove all your weak points in your face and force you to change for the better. You’ll lose attraction because you have no interesting stories to tell, so you’ll go out and start getting stories and experiences. You’ll run out of breath fucking a girl because you’re a fatass so you’ll start hitting the gym. Bouncers won’t let you into a bar so you’ll start handling your style/fashion. You won’t be able to afford to go out or to keep up with high class social circles, so you’ll start to get a handle on your money.

Like to us there’s no need to tell guys to focus on that stuff because if you listen to the fundamental basic rule of PUA (“field experience is king”, “go out”, etc.), you will handle all this other shit and you’ll build all these mindsets that the Manosphere is trying to teach. The Manosphere is essentially trying to teach guys the same thing they’d learn if they just got off their asses and went out…that’s part of why it’s digestible. “Oh, I don’t have to go out and get shot down by a bunch of hot girls and have my ego stomped on until I slowly fix myself over time? I can just read this article on Rollo’s blog?? AND offer my opinion in the Comments section and argue with a bunch of other people who never go out and feel like I’m part of a club?? AWESOME!! Sign me up!!”.

I’m not playing sides or anything here, I like both “spheres”. I’m not an RSD employee or anything. All I am is a guy who’s read, studied, and practiced a ton of different styles of game and been following it for years. I can switch from Mystery’s indirect stuff to Juggler’s comfort stuff to Gunwitch’s direct stuff, and can pretty much explain everyone’s work from different periods of time. I’m like a Wikipedia of PUA shit lol I was interested in human psychology in general before I found pickup so pickup has just given me an avenue to focus that interest on. If I hadn’t found PUA stuff I’d be reading general psychology articles in my spare time for the fun of it.

I’m 100% objective and think the internal commercial fighting and stuff is all silly nonsense, all I care about is what works and what doesn’t work? Like I say, the Manosphere has an audience and even if those guys aren’t going out and getting laid, the more men who make that mental shift to the same outlook PUAs have, the better for men in general, ultimately. Especially these days where we’re being shit on left and right with “Man Up!” and “Where have all the real men gone?” articles getting so much publicity.

“BTW, you’re comments are great. When are you “doing a Rollo” and putting together a blog?”

Thanks. Never. lol I have a normal life outside of this, commenting here and there is enough for me.

“Funny seeing Tyler treat his long term girl and mother of a kids with the gruff discipline that’s talked about in the manosphere, in front of an entire goddamn conference room full of people. Some of the guys there were freaked out that he was “mean” and asked Tyler about it, so he went pretty into depth about how to manage women. All of the rest of the instructors had a very similar frame.

The thing is, they got that attitude by going out hard for 2-5 years and getting burned when they fucked up.”

Exactly this. Us PUAs know that going out will form all these mindsets the Manosphere is explaining, that’s why we don’t really bother dwelling on it. Because even if you read about the mindset, you still won’t HAVE it, as a part of who you are, it’s still in your intellectual side as a concept. By going out with tactics purposely, you forge those mindsets into yourself completely so that when you’re in the conference room with your baby-mama you’re treating her the way the manosphere explains you should treat her.

“The VAST majority of RSD’s students still do not understand it even after a bootcamp, so they STILL get burned.”

I’d say this is a problem of commercialization and general “quick fix pills” mindset newbies have now that PUA is mainstream. When PUA was still underground, only the really desperate guys found the community and they understood “this is going to take years of my life to get a handle on”. We didn’t go out for 2 months and whine “I didn’t get a BJ in the bathroom”, we were like “sweet, it only took me a year to get a makeout in the bar!!!” But now that PUA is so mainstream everyone is like “Where’s my MSN 10 Tips To Get Laid magic pill that’s going to fix me??” so they go into bootcamps thinking they can undo 20+ years of bad wiring in their brain and behaviors in 3 days. And commercial PUA companies sell it that way because, well, that’s how they make money lol But regardless of their marketing practices, the knowledge they’re dropping is legit if you go into it with the understanding that a weekend seminar isn’t going to fix you, ya know?

Like Tyler says, no one is going to buy the book titled “Lose 1lb a week over a slow period of time by watching your diet and putting in lots of work exercising and achieve your goal in just one year!” They’re going to buy the book titled “Lose 10lbs in 4 days with no work at all, eat donuts every day!!”

“(plus going out, of course) has HUGELY accelerated the learning curve of my game.”

The going out is the important part. I find the Manosphere doesn’t tend to give a shit if guys go out lol I haven’t seen pretty much a single article in the Manosphere that encourages guys to go out multiple nights/days a week and approach X number of girls and try different tactics and report the results etc. Thus the massive community of guys who feel like they’re super psychological geniuses now that they have all this “understanding”, but they still haven’t cold approached a girl this month, let ALONE taken a girl home in under 7 hours etc.

So if you take a guy who’s just broken up with his girl or whatever and is all disillusions and he finds the Manosphere but he’s never heard of PUA before, or he’s heard that PUA is too obsessive and all fuzzy hats and shit and he doesn’t want to get that in-depth into it, he sits and reads all these Manosphere articles because that’s “safer” and more digestible.

But the Manosphere doesn’t encourage him to go out at all. So he becomes another one of the armchair theorists feeling like his understanding of psychology is expanding but he still doesn’t have a social circle inviting him out on Saturday nights, he still doesn’t have a harem of girls texting him wanting to fuck, he’s still living the same lifestyle he was before he found the Manosphere.

That’s why I’m always harping on people and calling them KJs, because I can tell which guys are legit going out and which ones are just mentally masturbating. I can tell because I’ve gone out a fuck-ton and I’ve met and hang out with guys who go out a fuck-ton. :)

Aaaaand now it’s almost Friday night, so I’m about to kill a few more hours of work and then shower up and head out with two different social circles and club-hop from a grand opening of a new nightclub (a buddy got us VIP tickets) to the hottest club in our city where we’ll be able to skip the line and walk in because my group has made friends with the staff. We’ll probably bring some girls from the first place to the next, but if we don’t it doesn’t matter because we’ll be approaching girls and shooting the shit with guys and be getting new girls and making new friends.

To whoever read all this: What are YOU doing tonight? GO OUT. APPROACH. Field is king. :)

I’ve heard good things about using Devonthink to organize research notes / ideas into a book.