We’re here to help.

On the other hand, a pearl is still a pearl, even if you have to dig through muck to get to it.

When I posted my original question, I knew very well that there would probably be at least a few comments that were nothing but abuse (I have actually been surprised on this account! Nothing so far!), as well as several which might be helpful, but couched in crass language or at least very hard to hear (Matthew’s comments would seem to fit), and maybe a few which were just nice. I accepted that, and decided I would look for whatever help I could and do my best to ignore the attitude. It may not be my fault that the system is rigged, but on the other hand, I’ve been a willing idiot too, and I am not going to perpetuate the problem of feminists going into male territory and demand they play nicer for my benefit.

In other words, I am aware that I am here on sufferance, and so, have tried to remain true to myself in attitude and tone, without taking offense when others do the same.

What I’ve seen on this thread (and I haven’t read much of any others, so perhaps I’ve drawn the wrong conclusion), is that GeishaKate makes no similar allowance. Indeed, I think this is the wrong place for any woman to come for “support and kindness” – even if I still take advantage of the chance of finding answers.

I am simply explaining how things work. You think women aren’t suffering from the consequences? I assure you- they are.

The problem with this statement is it is the major point of the MRA that women AREN’T really suffering much. Granted, it is still hard to be a single mother, but with all of the resource reallocation (welfare, food stamps, alimony, child support, etc) not only is it much easier than it would be otherwise, but it has gotten to the point that many women don’t fear it – at least, not enough to prevent it.

If you aren’t using 2+ methods of birth control, or else abstaining from pre-marital sex entirely, then you aren’t really that scared of what single motherhood could do to you. I have three cousins who are all sisters who all got knocked up – the first one by three DIFFERENT ex-cons. Did her younger sisters look at that and go, “gee, what a rough life that I want no part of,”? No, they decided it wasn’t THAT bad and got in on the action too. That’s the problem. They AREN’T suffering so badly that they learn to make different choices. They are just stumbling around making the same mistakes, and not hurting enough to do anything differently.

Good luck with that, Kate. This bible-thumping, scripture-quoting maniac will tell you what a whore you are — and then spend twenty verbose paragraphs palming off his insult as some sort of favor to you.

As I said earlier: trash is still trash, no matter how ornate the package.

What would you need to hear a woman say to own up to what happened? What would be the words that would show you a woman knows the spots on her soul and is not a brazen hussy? I’d really like to know.

Talk is cheap. There are no words! Read Stingray’s latest: “What I was expecting from him was a reaction to me based on something as if I had already accomplished it, not the reaction to my saying I would do it.”

There lies the fundamental disconnect. Confession is not absolution is not reconciliation. Penance and firm purpose of amendment stop the wounds from bleeding but do not eliminate scars. Your sex’s belief in the magical power of words is what prevents reconciliation.

I am happy you have your priorities straight. No indeed, I am not your confessor. Reconciliation and absolution are well beyond my powers, and in fact are beyond all human powers. The most power we have is a very good but not perfect imitation of God’s mercy, and that is, forgiveness. But forgiveness automatically invalidates itself when the confession/apology is retracted by virtue of proceeding in the behavior that required forgiveness in the first place. You may say you’re sorry for stealing the car, you may even be sorry you stole it, but until you return it to its owner, you are still a car thief. Or as Christ told the adulteress after saving her from stoning,

“Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and do not sin again.”

The contrite are not condemned, but do not sin again.

Christ loved Mary Magdalene the Penitent, because her repentance (or metanoia) made that love possible.

How does a woman make up for past mistakes, impurities, and “spots on her soul”? She can’t. Or more precisely, she can’t. But here is the Good News. She can be repentant and change her behavior, and that is enough. But insofar as she denies the need for a complete transfiguration — a total change of soul that rejects rather than rationalizes away her mistakes — she is not penitent, she is not truly reconcilable.

Don’t talk to me of “fine line[s]” or imply that I am “bull[ying]” you. This is actually what true “support” looks like. It tells you bluntly about the lies that keep you from being whole again. And why bluntly? Because the lies are so deep, so interwoven with what you have come to regard as the truth.

You are wrong to say the “purity is gone — it’s lost, irretrievably.” There is no cause for despair; it is precisely that despair that makes a woman who committed a few prideful mistakes into that “brazen,” or unapologetic “hussy.”

At the same time, it is most important to emphasize in this culture of easy and instant reconciliation that the slate is not cleaned by a woman’s magical words. To understand how purity may be recovered is not to imagine a time machine and an adjustment of fate. It is to understand the deadly seriousness with which you must regard those unresolved mistakes. If anything, your impatience indicates you have a way to go. That’s what I meant when I said, “You have no idea what you have done, nor what you are doing.” If you did, your approach to the issue would be more obvious in its humility and more indicative of the life-or-death difficulties of true reconciliation.

Matt

I presume nothing of the sort. I am simply explaining how things work. You think women aren’t suffering from the consequences? I assure you- they are. If I chose to, that’s what I could read/listen to all day. Suffering. Endless suffering.

What would you need to hear a woman say to own up to what happened? What would be the words that would show you a woman knows the spots on her soul and is not a brazen hussy? I’d really like to know.

Many women know their purity is gone- its lost, irretriveably. Some respond by forging ahead and saying, well, I’ve already come this far, there is nothing further to be lost. Others halt completely. Still others are somewhere in the middle.

“You have no idea what you have done, nor what you are doing.” I think I have a pretty good idea of what I’ve done, I just don’t feel the need to admit my every fault to people who assume I have more of them than I do anyway. The internet is not my confessor.

I understand what you are saying about those who are baffled.

I noticed and that is why I stopped posting. You tread a fine line with me here, Matt. I have been bullied and controlled and isolated from friends and family in real life, so, yes, it is nice to feel there are those who would offer me support. I have not entirely come to depend on the kindness of strangers, but I will never be unappreciative of kindness from whatever source it emanates. Did not Christ himself love Mary Magdalene?