Wife Porn

I once had an interesting conversation with a married friend/counsel of mine that sort of opened my eyes to something that’s becoming an interesting trend which prompted me to come up with an experiment for the married and formerly married men who read my blog. It should also be educational to see how single guys (or those in LTRs) view this too. So rather than go into complete detail right now about the subject of our conversation allow me present two scenarios for your consideration. Bear in mind these are sexual fantasies and you could easily add details to them that might invalidate them, but the illustrations and guy’s (as well as women’s I suppose) perceptions are what I’m curious about:

Scenario #1
Suppose for the moment you are single, if you’re married now, with no attachments. You and a wing go off to a party to do a little cooperative sarging where you know a good number of attractive women will be present. After an hour and a half you successfully kiss close an HB9 and she’s definitely given you enough IOIs and AIs to know she’d be a great same night lay – the stuff of dreams. Picking up on this, you propose heading back to your place for whatever made up reason you can think of on the spot. On the drive to your place she is feeling you up and all but fucking you right in the car, maybe even giving you head a bit before you arrive. Once there, she strips down to a small bit of lingerie and proceeds to grind and tease you. She then removes everything but her stockings and heels, climbs on top of you and has her way with you, finishing you off with a mind blowing hummer.

Scenario #2
You’ve been married to your wife for five years (or longer). While at work she calls you one afternoon and tells you that if you’ll come home early she’ll “make it worth your while.” You happen to be freed up enough at work to take off early and head home. When you arrive, your wife is standing in the kitchen making spaghetti in nothing but a g-string, babydoll and a sexy bra. She has a bottle of wine and a couple of glasses set to one side and informs you that the children are at her mother’s for the evening. She’s still easily an HB 7 (closer to an 8 in the nightie) inspite of having kids, and her ass looks fantastic in the g-string. After a glass of wine she tells you how hard you’ve been working lately and it’s time she shows you some ‘appreciation’. She begins to give you head in the kitchen, after which you go down on her on the counter top. You take her standing up and she frantically claws your back before she drags you to the livingroom where she rides you in a frenzy rivaled only by the sex you remember having with her when you were both single .

I apologize for the graphics, but it’s necessary. If you’re a married or divorced guy consider these questions:

  1. Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?
  2. Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?
  3. Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?
  4. Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

Single guys can respond to this too since it’ll show a depth of experience, but married/divorced guys, think hard about this. You’re realtively anonymous here so be honest.

 

Now then, the reason I started this experiment is because the friend I had prompt me to this gave me a link to one of the fasest growing sexual fetish (if that’s the proper term) porn sites and this is, believe it or not, married sex. No, I don’t mean cheating housewives (that’s been done to death), but actual married sex between couples that is in fact well done and pretty hot. I wont post the link, but you can Google Housewives 1 on 1 or the like and see what I mean. In each fantasy scenario the husband’s wife (all porn star hot) seduces him with a combination of lingerie, dirty talking, and at least a pretty convincing display of actual desire/lust/passion for having sex with him. After watching the trailer videos I couldn’t help but think that the reason for this becoming such a popular genre of porn is due to an unbelievability that in all rights should be believable, if not desirable. How pathetic a statement is it to think that within all of our over eroticizing society that we should come full circle and have made hot, married sex into sexual niche fantasy?

The reason I proposed the two scenarios was to llustrate just the unbelievabilty of the 2nd one in comparison to the first. The 2nd one being a rough description of one of the vignettes from a particular ‘married fantasy sex’ site. I have a pretty good sex life with my wife, who still looks like a fitness model even after our daughter’s birth. That said I can tell you that nothing would shock me more than to have my wife even remotely concoct a sexual tryst with me like these. It’s not that I have a problem with our sex life, far from it, but it’s that it would rarely cross a married woman’s mind that she would want to seduce her husband.

The default female reponse to this is that it’s the burdens of married/family life that interfere with acting something like this out, or that the man should shoulder the responsibility for keeping married sex passionate. I have to then go back to my conversations with virtually every married man I’ve ever counseled telling me that they are almost universally the initiators of sex with their spouses and this is a point of contention between them. Their initiating – by way of doing all of the romantic preparations their wives tell them is necessary for them to “get in the mood”  – then ends up becoming the catalyst for one more form of stress, since it then conditions her to think that the very behaviors she described as being conducive to her becoming aroused are now associated with obligations of sex. Essentially negotiating sex by proxy. We have to remember that women communicate covertly and when she feels the need to overtly tell a man (what she thinks he ought to know anyway) how to turn her on, sex becomes predictable and routine; the opposite of spontaneous and exciting.

That as an aside, the intent of this was to illustrate that the reason this form of sexual fetish is exciting for married men in particular is that it is out of the ordinary and unbelievable, yet painfully ddesirable. These are hot fantasies because they seem to feel right, yet would rarely (if ever) cross a married woman’s mind that she would have a desire to seduce her husband and make special preparations to do so unexpectedly.


77 responses to “Wife Porn

  • Samplexus

    I’ve had both scenarios. Not down to the T but what I mean is I’ve experienced the sex with a new person thrill and the really steamy, lusty LTR sex. My preference is that it’s exciting to seduce and flirt with someone you don’t know and see yet another naked girl (which doesn’t get old).

    As for the rise in married sex in the porn market, I imagine it has to do with more couples wanting to watch porn together that haven’t really discussed porn before. Maybe they both have their preferences but are too shy to say in front of the other “oh, I like 18 year olds on the audition couch” or “even as a women I get off to gay porn”. Married sex porn is good because it’s something they can relate to together while watching it together.

  • Leap of a Beta

    I would say that the ‘married fantasy’ is even a fantasy for those co-cohabitating. Really any situation where the woman has an overwhelming amount of safety built into the relationship that isn’t countered by, or controlled by, the man in the relationship.

    I know the last relationship I had, 3.5 years long with 2 of those living together, follows the same script as that. I unknowingly lost control of the relationship despite being the sole earner. Sex dried up, when it did happen felt like an ‘obligation’ on her part, and she made me jump through a shit ton of hoops to get it. I think there was one time in the whole relationship she instigated – when I was working an 80 hour week, exhausted, and wasn’t giving her the same attention as I usually did because I was going to work, coming home, eating, sleeping, and repeating – when she felt threatened.

    In contrast, after being single I’ve gotten four same night lays. While they weren’t quiet to the level of seduction on her part as the scenario, there’s a much more present and pressing desire that I’ve seen in women when the same night lay is going to happen than one extended over multiple meetings/days/dates, whatever.

    As for preference between the two…. Depends on the health of the relationship in scenario 2. Is she doing it because she’s happy, because she feels guilty about something, because the relationship is in a down spot and she’s trying to fix it, or what? If healthy, great – I’ve just never heard stories of this happening in a ‘healthy’ relationship besides seeing it over at Athol’s success stories.

  • Rico

    Hmm… need to send this to the wife. Not that she would act on it in any meaningful manner, but still…

  • Columnist

    Somehow, the left woman is more arousing than the right one. The problem of safety in marriage leading to less sex can be countered by giving MEN an easy way of divorce.

  • dkb

    To quote Athol Kay, the number one male fantasy is very simple….that
    “she is into it”. As men, we want her to like and enjoy everything we are doing to her, with her screaming, flipping her head back, pulling hair and squirting…..only to end with her telling us that was the best she had ever had. (Basically the way you described the female in both scenarios) For me, I have never liked mainstream porn. If I watch it, it is vintage or amateur,.. because I want what I’m watching to seem more real. That is why married sex porn is popular, because men want to justify that the sex is actually consenting, unpaid and more real, even if it is not. I would personally be more likely to click on married sex porn if I were to run across it for those very reasons. I have been married for 22 years and I have had scenario 2 happen around a dozen times. To me, I would much rather have that happen, and despite the desire to have other women, married seduction is a safe place where I don’t have to worry about other issues…like logistics or disease/protection, or how to get rid of her in the morning. Given the way you described scenario 1, I don’t think that happens as much as people think…..unless your paying for that experience. Of course, number 2 doesn’t either! We just wish they did! Basically…..our fantasy is that she was into it that much that she would actually do those things….

  • Kuraje

    See Athol’s success stories (marriedmansexlife.com) per Leap of Beta above.

  • Kuraje

    Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?

    #1 happens more often. I think this is due to the ‘new’ factor. When relationships (even for a night) are fresh, sex is fraught with tension as per your previous writing. Tension that unleashes that kind of passion is less likely to exist after 5 years, children etc. While it’s not impossible as per Athol Kay, it’s less likely.

    Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?

    Hands down wife being completely into it, planning the surprise and pulling it off. That’s the hottest aphrodisiac. As it was mentioned earlier, no crap to worry about and there’s an actual relationship behind it all to heighten the experience. Oxytocin + dopamine for the win as opposed to just dopamine.

    Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?

    Just raw sexually? HB 9. Throw emotions in mix, then wife. New conquest will boost ego, but there’s a crap load of other benefits that come with a wife being that into the marriage.

    Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

    Yes & yes. Those are the times that are never forgotten.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Most women are so used to NOT having to take any sexual initiative that they probably see little reason to do something like this. Another reason why this probably doesn’t happen very often is that women simply cannot understand the kind of pleasure something like this can bring to a man.

    I have never been married but I have been in plenty of LTR’s and I can’t ever remember having a chick go out of her way to seduce me. There was one time where my gf was hinting that she was horny and I was ignoring her so she took it upon herself to go in my bedroom and whip out her “purple monster”, leaving the door cracked open so I could hear her moans (which worked like a charm to get me to fuck her), but aside from that and the times where the gf initiated sex I have never had a woman go out of her way to set something up.

    I would be willing to bet that this also ties in with the fact that western women simply do not have to put much effort into ANYTHING these days. They know that there are a dozen other dudes lined up at any given time just waiting to take the place of their man so they have little incentive to put in the extra effort.

  • Stephen

    I guess I don’t understand and usually this blog is a real eye-opener for me. My wife does the second scenario all the time, even after many years together, and she looks better than ever. I read these manosphere blogs because we’ve had plenty of other problems so I don’t pretend we’re perfect or that I’m living in some sort of marital paradise. But I just don’t get why a man would get married or stay married if that married-woman-porn-seduction scenario wasn’t happening fairly regularly.

  • Leap of a Beta

    Because its a rare woman that believes any relationship – dating, LTR, married, whatever – is her responsibility to fix or play an equal role in.

    So, we’re all looking for that rare woman (except you Stephen, already having one). How do you like those odds?

  • Stephen

    Yeah, I understand. I didn’t mean to come across as looking down on anyone. I just didn’t know how rare that is, if it’s really that rare. We met really young so I’ve never even considered the first scenario, whereas the second happens all the time for me. I mistakenly thought that scenario one would be the rare one and the other would happen for most married men at least now and then. Once again, we’ve had plenty of problems lately and I don’t pretend to have it all figured out.

  • Leap of a Beta

    Haha, no worries. You didn’t come down on anyone. Most people just have the sex problems ONTOP of all the rest.

  • deti

    1.Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?

    Scenario 1, hands down.

    2.Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?

    Scenario 2, because it has potential for repetition.

    3.Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?

    Scenario 1.

    4.Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

    Yes to both.

  • Höllenhund

    I’ll have to agree with Rollo, as usual. Scenario #1 seems somewhat realistic, #2 isn’t. There’s no way a wife with kids that are under 5 will come up with such a surprise, much less implement it. Mothers in that situation are normally overworked, irritated and stressed out. The very last thing on their minds is the idea that they have to sexually seduce their husbands for whatever reason. Grandmothers who’d look after the kids all night so that their daughters can enjoy lengthy, steamy marital sex are also pretty rare.

    I should add that a wife who actually wants to have sex with her husband and isn’t an idiot won’t dress like the woman on the left.

  • Anony

    As a younger reader, I have to put in my two cents. I’ve had both happen (though have not been married, but at the time may as well have been). I say both, because in one LTR, living together for 2 years, the best sexual experiences I had were when she initiated things, but not necessarily planned them out, but I guess when she went out of her willingly without me initiating it in a way to fulfill a fantasy of mine. Pretty much a dead on description of what she did once, just it was frilly porn star style lingerie, and she did ask me to come home early, and there she was, lying on the bed in something ridiculous but of course hot, ready for me to take her, after having a meal cooked for me too.

    As for the other option, that’s happened quite a few times as well. The most surprising & memorable being a HB8 girl (with tons of orbiters, I never paid more attention to her than the cigarette I was smoking while speaking with her) who, having spoken with her infrequently at the smoker’s circle on campus, she began to dress more provocatively, flirt with me more obviously, try to get me to hang out with her, go to parties, etc…which I never really paid much attention to, not even asking for her number or even refusing to bum her cigg’s when she was out, just treating her like any other stranger I’d occasionally bump into; until she somehow found out which room I lived in – on a ground level, so you could walk up to my window; she came to my window one night, woke me up, crawled in, completely surprised me, and said she was going to suck my cock, that she wanted to, like really wanted to. I, taken aback, and having been single without a partner for months at that point (broken back, recovery, home problems, etc…until back on campus), fully and anxiously and half asleep definitely obliged. Best blow job I’ve EVER had. I can still feel my seed drip-drop-gulp-swallowed down her throat! I hadn’t known happiness until that moment. Effortless pleasure of my favorite kind, sought out by another individual, for simply being who I was, and asking for nothing from anybody.

    Anyway, she would come to my window at night irregularly and want to get me off – she was the first girl I ever was [not] “with” that didn’t just give me head to also get sex or something selfishly in return, but to just give me head, swallow, and let me enjoy myself and go back to sleep or do whatever it was I had to be doing next. Eventually she wanted to be fucked by me, saying things like she thought I was experienced, and could show her “how a real man fucks”. And I’ll never forget how much that made me fuck her even harder that first time, in positions I’d made up on the spot, in ways that felt amazing for both of us, she was like a screaming banshee fountain, a session that lasted longer and harder and better than anything I’d had prior in that primal way the first time we did, I’d really never had any girl submit to me so intensely. This resulted in 3 more girls seducing me, one being her dorm mate, and the rest of the roommates whenever seeing me on campus, would look at me in what I can only describe as a desirous disgust; it looked like they were confused with how they felt about me, due to whatever they’d heard. I had even drunkenly puked on their schoolbooks (like 150 dollar textbooks), broken a gum ball machine, destroyed furniture, and gotten in a fight in their dorm in a single night.

    And it was like it didn’t matter; like it was totally normal (on that campus, NOT normal), and I had no reason to feel bad about anything, although I did. A week or so later I’m in bed with one of the roommates. I should add that my campus is extremely small and really not much of a party school in the typical US bro-college sense. It’s more of a hippy weed smoking free love anything goes feminist dominant culture where any and everything is basically accepted, proactively fought for, politically charged nonsense; yet sexually most people seem very reserved, despite how open they are with their sexuality. Like it’s ok to “identify” as a transgender lesbian male anti abortion gay rights activist unfairly treated minority (who chooses to make themselves a minority by refusing to accept cultural norms and deviate from it, thereby facilitating whatever problems it is they are creating in doing so, and then be given the right to complain about their own psychological confusion – but maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s completely alright to believe one isn’t the sex they were born into, but that they are the gender they’ve convinced themselves or some how inherently believe they are? I’m not talking about those who were born hermaphroditic, or with both parts but had one removed and were those raised as whatever the doctors chose them to keep, but as those who clearly are male, or female, and then become or desire becoming the opposite – perhaps a reflection of feminized culture nowadays?) and wear dresses before the surgery they are fund-raising for themselves taking women’s studies classes and fighting global rights for what I don’t even pretend to comprehend, or a gender-neutral this or that, or I’m labeled a heteronormative misogynist or something, because I want the girl I’m sleeping with to give me head or listen to what I say or do and respect it as I do with them; I asked this one girl who was against blow jobs, if she would let me go down on her, and she said of course because it feels great and is empowering or some bullshit, and I went to sleep, woke up, ate her breakfast she cooked me, and stopped sleeping with her after that. When I found out the night visiter had a boyfriend, and after cheating on him went on “a break” with him just to continue to fool around with me (apparently giving head isn’t cheating, but sex is), I completely dropped her from my life, because I found that to be horribly immature and fucked up and was one of many interactions with women that have led me to these blogs, and made me so dissatisfied with how relationships are now, or have always been; & of course she just went back to him after I stopped messing around with her.

    My point is, both are great in a certain sense, to some degree. But, both for an unknown reason, don’t make me feel positive. What seems to makes me feel better is when in a relationship, or FWB, the constant – I guess equally initiated sex; the dynamic that isn’t a one or few time pump and dump sort of thing. The knowing we’re going to fuck or do something sexual, the tension and release of when, & when it happens. Like both people are wanting-expecting the same thing, aware of it, acting on it consciously, and the entire interaction leads up to or begins with said thing in mind. Where each time a sexual encounter happens, it’s not some over the top scenario, but a somewhat familiar or praetor-knowledge thing, but more exciting in the sense that each person is learning what each other wants and likes for the betterment of each others sexual experiences and expected future sexual interactions together rather than with a new person, and there’s the feeling of a connection there, a mutual thing. But I guess that’s extremely beta of me? Or it coincides with my desire to marry, and if it’s possibly to be alpha and my best self, happily be married like apparently Roissy is, then what’s so wrong with that desire? Even if the sex is disturbingly primal, and outside of the sexual intimacy things are vanilla by all means, I like that comfort I suppose, the regularity; it makes it easier to not go off and sleep with the first thing that grazes my cock.

    When my LTR girlfriends have done stuff out of no where that are really arousing like that, it made me more….nervous or anxious & confused, and feel like, why is she doing this, what are the reasons behind the sudden desire to please me in this fantasy-style way? Even if in bed they suddenly pull off some crazy shit I’ve never experienced with them it makes me question where did that come from? I wouldn’t show that, but I’d feel it. She knows she doesn’t have to make such a big production out of something as simple as what I want, which is her wanting me and expressing it in verbal and physical ways (preferably subtle outside of the obvious intimate and sexual, e.g., in public showing me she desires me vs. clearly being attracted to another person and showing it, by say, if we both notice someone is checking her out, kissing me, or showing my dominance over her, not as a possession, but as her partner, who she is choosing over whoever else wants a shot, if that makes any sense; consciously choosing to ensure we’re together consistently, basically is the best thing I have ever experienced with partners, making me feel more like a man, and leading me to do more of the things I want/should be doing), but in the examples given in this article, and my own experience (I’m only 23, so probably have A LOT to learn), I felt that in the ltr seduction situation, she’s showing me to the nth degree how much she wants me to want her or to perceive that she is doing something for me, so it feels like there’s more to it, which my mind tells me is likely a bad thing. Like it turns me on more and in general makes me happier, when my gf or partner initiates/reciprocates, not seduces me into, a sexual experience.

    Just in the moment, whenever or wherever, showing me she’s sexually interested as I do to her, and genuinely enjoys it, and expresses said contentment; or after I initiate something, reciprocates by submitting to my desires, because she too desires the same thing. And the more that happens, the more enjoyable it is/becomes. Rather than a one night horny chick showing me she was looking to get laid by anyone with the balls to approach her properly, despite how much of an ego boost it is, it is not of my moral liking, and eventually becomes something I wonder too much about; i.e., what were her reasons for such frivolous or slutty behavior, and what made me the one to be at the pleasurably receiving end of it, & it could have been anyone, & are all girls like this, & why, & is every girl I’ve been committed to like the one who seduced me like literally a succubi, in the night, pouncing on my bed, and sucking the life-juice out of me, etc… And not a ltr partner out of the blue trying to make a huge effort to seduce me.

    She’s hotter naked in the shower telling me to join her than she is putting on a costume and basically imo likely acting with some ulterior motive. Unless that were the norm of the relationship (like it happened regularly from the beginning), or something expressed in a mutual conversation that we’d like to do or be surprised with (rather than actually being surprised by it’s sudden occurrence). If it happened out of no where like a girl coming to your window to seduce you, I’d prefer the surprise succubi or one-night stand horny girl over the ltr-wife-partners questionable newfound sexual expression, simply because I would have nothing to think or wonder about in terms of motivation beyond primal sexual urge/desire with the former.

    I hope the above made sense. I have had little sleep and am thinking in a haze. I apologize for poor grammar, as well as anything that was possibly too graphic.

    I apologize for the retardation of this post. I need to get some rest. I doubt I’ve added anything to the discussion. But if I have, great. Very interesting article as always. Look forward to more. And also, I want to add, I find reading people’s comments here equally engaging, if not sometimes, more than the posts. There are some extremely interesting and thought-provoking responses/ dialogues going on with every post, which keeps me coming back for more. So for those who comment, thanks.

  • Anony

    Shit I keep confusing roissy with rollo. I’m just going to say moderator from now on. I go to these sites all in one burst and sometimes forget which one is which.

  • Anony

    And sorry for the length, I just went on a tangent, recalling things this post reminded me of. I should stay away from keyboards when I’m tired.

  • K_C

    Ian Ironwood mentioned that homemade porn made by couples accounts for over 50% of all porn viewing (thesexnerd.blogspot.com). And, it *is* about the woman being into it; I think especially as the viewer gets older and has had more experience with actual women it becomes more important. Personally, the videos I specifically can recollect the most involved girls that really did seem to be enjoying it and enjoyed pleasuring their man (not just *a* man or faking). Of course, scenario #2 *never* happens for most men yet they are continually bludgeoned about how to be more romantic and communicative with their mates. If there was an equal amount of reciprocal societal pressure to give men what *they* desire (scenario #2) then it wouldn’t be as big of a fantasy but rather more of reality.

  • mikec74

    A test……just e-mailed my GF the picture above, no subject, no text…..curious to see what the response will be. Will report back.

  • Johnycomelately

    Great post, I saved a relatives marriage using this formula, I basically told her that the masculine and feminine were like ying and yang (chicks dig esoterism) and that if she didn’t pick up her ying her husband would naturally become repulsed by her. She ended up losing 30 pounds and now accentuates her femininity.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    I am monitoring this thread.

  • Firepower

    These are hot fantasies because they seem to feel right, yet would rarely (if ever) cross a married woman’s mind that she would have a desire to seduce her husband and make special preparations to do so unexpectedly.

    It is a hard truth, that women neglect their husbands because he is now the only acceptable social target of her seduction skills.

    With all other players disqualified and out of the game, she becomes like a well-fed cat merely examining sparrows outside.

    Of course, she can act out her infidelity, but that’s a major game misconduct.

  • Samuel

    I tend to think a part of the married-porn appeal is that its so private… sure we can see sluts and strippers, etc… but no one ever gets a look at the intimate marriage bed.

    As far as the married sex and who initiates… one way or another, the problem is that the woman does not make the man, nor his sexual advances, seem DESIRED. If we do not feel desired, we will be discontent. Our sexual prowess is VERY important and when we get minimized or even condescended to in that regard, it is a deep insult to our core being. Women should have the sense to make a guy feel that way as much as possible, regardless of how she feels… she can even improve her situation and her marriage if she would just give the man a reason to shine, a reason to puff his chest out and keep on pleasing that wife who worships him so…

  • Samplexus

    FWIW, if you don’t mind the link, http://www.reddit.com/r/passionx has a good selection of “married” porn. Good for warming up your bedroom.

  • Stingray

    I struggle with this, but since coming to the manosphere over a year ago have been making (and continue to make) strides.

    This, while making many women’s head explode, rings very true.

  • Ian Ironwood

    As a happily married dude, the author of a remedial seduction book, a red pill blog (y’all come on by) and a proud member of the porn industry, I feel uniquely qualified to discuss this subject.

    Wife porn is hot. There, I said it.

    With qualifiers, of course: the “good” wife porn is the stuff made in the heat of the moment, when honest excitement and lust combines with the familiarity of long acquaintance to produce a truly passionate response. It’s hot. Sometimes far hotter than commercial porn, or even non-involved amateurs.

    Why? Because with a married couple you have a safe and intimate space, a woman who feels completely confident in what she’s doing, and a dude who’s REALLY pumped about making porn. That produces an intensity and a passion you just can’t buy. MILF porn is popular for a reason: old married ladies know how to fuck. They’re confident and they’re horny, and they aren’t into bullshit.

    So between the two scenarios, although I’ve enjoyed them both, the fact is that married sex can be, indeed, hotter than casual sex with a hot stranger. Because “hotness” is no guarantee of quality. There’s an old porn maxim that says “It’s easier to take a girl who knows how to fuck and make her pretty than take a pretty girl and teach her how to fuck” (see Amy Reid for proof of this), and that’s true with wives who have successfully stayed married to their husbands long enough to consider making home movies. They know how to fuck . . . or they wouldn’t still be married.

    That’s why Athol’s blog and book are so important: by understanding Game at the Married level, you can tap into the rich, consistently-rewarding hotness of married sex (provided you’ve done your due diligence and selected a wife properly) and be getting laid more than a porn stud. Your wife, believe it or not, is the EASIEST PERSON to seduce. Game her right, and it’s pussy heaven. Fuck it up . . . and it’s divorce court. Or just a lot of gloomy masturbation.

    I don’t mean to shake things up for any aspiring Bull Alphas, but the truth is y’all sacrifice depth for freshness variety — which is fine, as far as it goes. But there are benefits to having a good wife that y’all are missing, and should you decide to go Wolf Alpha at some point and get married, you’ll see what I mean. Until then, check out some married porn and get a hint.

  • Orion

    I have never experienced the first scenario. But awhile back, taking some of what I have learned at similar sites, I started telling (no, not just asking)my wife to put on lingerie before we start messing around. She now knows that wearing it or talking about wearing it is a turn on for me. Married for nearly 5 years, scenario is fairly frequent for me also. I don’t know if others are missing out because of a lack of foreplay or their partner… it is very common for us to make out for quite awhile even on nights where we don’t have sex (her period).
    I come to sites like this to get ideas on how to keep things lively as possible.

  • Captain Action

    Scenario one requires effort (i.e. you’d have to have game). Scenario two does not (i.e. you wouldn’t need to game your wife). I think married or LTR guys would like to feel like they don’t have to seduce (coerce) their wives for once, which is why porn in the vein for scenario two must be so appealing.

    Both situations are novel in their own right, but for some guys, scenario two is even more improbable because of the realities of their marriage and all its responsibilities.

    Having watched a few moments of the wife porn that Rollo mentions above though, I couldn’t help but think that what’s so attractive about the genre is that the “husbands” don’t have to try. And isn’t that what any kind of porn is all about? You can just sit back and let it happen. Otherwise, in real life, you have to try for the HB9, you have to try to seduce your wife.

    Guys are expected to seduce, whether it’s out at a bar or in your own marriage, even if you have game. So, I guess what I’m saying is, scenario two would appeal to me, because I could take a fucking break. It’s hot of course, but no more hot than scenario one. I guess if you’re married there is the potential to make hot, fantasty sex happen more often, but that requires trying and game. In which case, marriage porn will still be a nice break from time to time. You never have to game your laptop.

    My question is, how can one make a wife take this kind of initiative?

  • Once Upon a TIme

    I am not so sure what I have to offer this excellent commentary that has not been said by others, but as a married guy, I’ll jump in.

    1. Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?

    Scenario One: the chick. Been there done that; especially with younger attractive women. Don’t even get me started on co-ed grad students. I believe the reason is that single women see a man they want – and play to their strengths (note: whether that man is marred or not). They want that first impression to be impressive and last long enough to form a connection, to bare children, and in the western world, to enter some kind of stability (financial, emotional, etc.).

    2.Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?

    Hands down Scenario Two: the bride. No question in my mind. The connection I have for her is much more fulfilling on so many levels, the erotic discourse only enhances the rest.

    3.Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?

    No.2 again. No question that my bride knows my pleasures better than anyone else. There is an intimacy that is well known, and can be expanded in areas of mutual interest the sum becomes greater than the parts. Sex is not a getting to know you action, but one of hand holding to greater and greater erotic bliss.

    4.Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

    Yes to both. Many times with single young women (and I am no player). However with the bride? Well interestingly only during one period of time. It was before I started reading about Game. I know now it was a time period of extreme Dread on the part of my wife. She thought wrongfully that I was having an affair. My denial I guess was not convincing enough and I had the best sex of my life. Never to be repeated. Maybe time for more dread.

    Thanks to Rollo and the rest of the crew here for your inspirational discourse.

  • Hero

    It’s sad that the “good wife tips” make some women so angry. If they only knew how happy those kinds of actions make us.

    I can’t tell you how good I feel when I get home and my wife stops what she is doing, comes to me, looks up into my eyes, presses her chest against me and gives me kisses. That sets the mood for the evening.

  • Hero

    #1 The first situation is more likely to be realized because often the new girl has more to prove. Also, there is often more pent up sexual energy that needs to be released. My LTRs have all involved regular sex so some of that sexual urgency is not there.

    #2 I would rather participate in the second scenario because there is a depth to it that can not exist in the first scenario. Also, I have always enjoyed sex more as I get more familiar and comfortable with the woman.

    #3 I think the second scenario is more rewarding because of the appreciation that woman brings to it. It pleases me to be appreciated for who I am and my efforts.

    #4 Yes to both.

  • sensuouswife

    Good afternoon gentlemen,
    I hope I’m allowed to comment. I recognize the sacredness of a space where men talk man stuff, so I feel hesitant to comment.

    I found this post because I’ve had the keywords “married sex” on my google reader for years. One of my favorite topics.

    First of all, I have to say I thought I invented that fantasy!

    http://www.sensuouswife.com/blog/?p=840

    Second, I have been feeling very rare and very lonely these days so hearing a gathering of men opine on how rare I am makes me feel good.

    Third, the reason I have felt so sad and lonely is that a huge majority of the men who pursue me try to seduce me right away which makes me feel my exquisite heart is being ignored and my exquisite body is the only one being pursued. I don’t like feeling that way so I move on.

    I’m no prude, I’m an enthusiast. And I know for me the really great sex with all the swearing and squirting happens when my heart and my body are in agreement. And when I am with someone who sees me my whole self and loves me devotedly and with passion and commitment.

    I feel so much energy shimmering just below the surface. I’m waiting for a good man who has eyes to see me and invites me into the kind of long delicious story I want to live in.

    In the meantime, I would really enjoy receiving encouragement.
    Thanks for allowing me to share my point of view

  • dragnet

    Single, never married, was in an LTR where I lived with the chica…

    1.Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?

    Obviously the first one is much more likely to happen—and it’s incredibly rare itself—because part of what’s motivating a woman who’s into you but not your wife is threat posed by other women. Competition anxiety is still a factor.

    2.Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?

    I’d rather have the second scenario because of what it says about the long-term sexual life of my marriage. The first scenario is too hit or miss and part of why a man marries is to eliminate the uncertainty around sex. Of course, there is no ultimately security but if the wife in the second scenario is acting according to pattern, well that’s about as good as it gets for a married man.

    3.Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?

    Could be either. The new pussy vibe in the first scenario could make it really explosive, but having the woman you love doing that (and what it implies about your marriage and your long-term sex-life) in the second scenario could supercharge things.

    4.Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

    HELL YES.

  • Firepower

    I didn’t know bots got
    married, so if you’re still
    “waiting for a good man who has eyes to see me and invites me into the kind of long delicious story”
    …Better not tell your husband.

    Perhaps today’s hubby is fine with that, but the Real Men would shoot your ass – and Mr. Lothario.

    Present company excepted, I’ve adopted the Leykis Model. Marriage is no longer a choice.

    Look at all the sad sacks on The Spearhead; disgusting.
    Now, I look at married sex-manual-spice-it-up methods as quaint. Like watching cripples play wheelchair basketball. I appreciate their determination – but don’t want to join the club.

  • Flahute

    Only after he’s fucked you does a man really know you.

  • sensuouswife

    I’ve been divorced 3 years. I fired my exhusband for adultery. I’m into faithfulness. My blog tells my story.

  • xsplat

    About the picture illustrating the post, it’s the man’s job to ensure the woman wears a proper housewife uniform around the house.

    If she keep putting on the trash, take it off her and cut it up with scissors in front of her.

    And tell her what to wear.

    My girl occasionally backslides and I ask her “go get me the scissors”. She knows it’s no bluff, so she changes.

  • xsplat

    It’s common for the woman to approach sex through her romantic heart, and the man to approach sex through his lusty libido. The woman wants to kiss before sex, but the man has no mood to kiss unless he’s having sex.

    It can be difficult to find that compromise when partners are at the extreme ends of this polarity. Just know that the gateway to many mens romance is through his dick. Not his lips.

  • xsplat

    I’ve never had the 2nd scenario, where a live in partner makes a romantic production out of having sex. I think I’d be a bit insulted if she did, strangely.

    When I’m passionate and close with someone, the sex is frequent and it’s taken for granted that we’ll have it several times a day. All the seduction that would be needed is a brief comment of “fuck me”.

    The notion that I’d need extra attention to get aroused is somewhat insulting. And the girl will always be in sexy attire or naked if she’s in my house. That’s the default, and no other attire is allowed.

  • xsplat

    I should also say that the notion of seducing through “special” clothes and “special” dinner really puts me off, both ways.

    I expect a special meal every day. At least two – breakfast and dinner. But that’s not the offensive part. Connecting treating the woman well with a reward of sex is just plain bad training, and insulting to both the power of her libido and to my personal attraction. I want the woman to be in a constant state of arousal. Certainly not contingent on special treatment.

    Now I concede that may not be as practical and workable after the woman has had a few kids, so I’m only speaking to my own life strategy. If the sexual heat isn’t there, I pull out my passport and start a new life phase.

  • Anon

    As a guy that reads game blogs STRICTLY for the purpose of starting an LTR with marriage as the end game, I’m glad you said this. We all want to enjoy women, but I’m willing to exchange massive amounts of poon for one woman who will seduce and be seduced. If you’re the right man, again see Athol’s site, and choose wisely it can be your reality.

  • UrbanCounselor

    @sensuouswife I read your blogpost (letter to future husband) and your post on this thread, and while I respect the right for other posters to have their own opinion I have little objection to saying that the vast majority of posters on this site can’t appreciate the background, spiritual stance, and sincerity of your comments. Again, as a Christian man who reads blogs like these(they have tons of great insight into the woman’s psyche) strictly for knowledge of women to start an LTR that has marriage as the end game it’s good to know that women like you EXIST. I have no problem with saying that most men, especially Christian men, are DREAMING of being with a woman who has your all-encompassing approach to marriage.

  • Wilson

    You may have been tired, but I found your commentary refreshing

  • SouthTX

    Have a LT wife and my kid’s Mom. One in college. She still gets horny depending on her cycle. Kid’s means she has to be discrete. But I know without doubt when she want’s to get her freak on.

  • SouthTX

    Otherwise, She want’s to to be a Mom.

  • SouthTX

    Doesn’t suprise me a bit. Most Guy’s just want a roof over their heads. A good wife who takes care of stuff. Knows how to cook.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Great in theory but try that with a chick in a western country. Even if she is down with the program as soon as she tells the sisterhood about something like this it will be the beginning of the end. “Girl, that’s emotional abuse!” “He’s a controlling asshole, you don’t need to put up with that.”

    Western society is TOXIC and it is the reason why this problem exists. Dominance is good and necessary but when the trend is against you you can only push so far without experiencing a backlash.

  • xsplat

    Cutting up her clothes works best if you have a domestic arrangement where you are the one paying for her clothes shopping expenses.

    But mostly it’s about holding your frame. Will the girl complain and freak out? Yes. If you are unapologetic about it and say you’d do it again if she wears frumpy clothes again, she’ll huff about it, sure.

    You don’t always get concessions to dominance with a happy smile on the girls face. But you’ll see for yourself the overall effect.

    You have to build up dominance step by step as you get your hooks into her. She has to already be way into you before you can demand more. If she is into you, she’s not going to be able to throw that all away, regardless of the sisterhood, over the issue of your demand of her wearing proper clothes. And it’s not as if you didn’t warn her – you can give her 10 warnings before bringing out the scissors. If you wind up cutting her clothes it’s nothing but her fault.

    Women do understand discipline. You say western women don’t, but my belief is that women do. Women. It just takes a man who can stand up to the initial barrage of assault that comes from stealing power from the girl.

    And timing. You have to steal her power in increments at the right time.

  • xsplat

    And again, I don’t know how you can keep making comparisons when you are not familiar with living in another country. The sisterhood phenomenon exists everywhere – that’s a female thing. Everywhere the sisterhood advocates for more power to the woman, less to the man.

    And everywhere that is not a difficult obstacle to overcome. You just have to be more important to her than her friends. That is not that difficult to do. She should be hugely emotionally invested in you, and you should be the center of her entire world. She’ll do what you say over friends and family and mother and father and God himself.

    There is nowhere where the sisterhood wouldn’t cluck at the man cutting up the girls frumpy clothes.

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve run up against the sisterhood advising my girls to leave me, and not only for something trivial like insisting that she wear a house uniform. More about being too old, too ugly, and too poor. Endless barrages of sisterhood-gabble.

    And no girl ever listened.

  • xsplat

    And you really misunderstand other cultures. There is no husband in SE Asia who would do as I say. This place is matriarchal. You’ll never hear of any man indigenous to here doing dominant actions like I advocate.

    I’m not advocating for something that is culturally accepted at all.

    This is a man-woman thing.

    You have to be a man to pull it off. If you are, you can do it in any culture.

    Are there any pimps in your country today?

    Then you get my point.

  • xsplat

    Honestly Chuck, if your attitude is that culture won’t allow you to be properly dominant, then your attitude is weak.

    Yes, there are cultural differences between places. That makes a strong man even more rare and even more valuable.

    Look at the strong men that exist in your country now. The pimps who get their girls to do anything on command. Maybe you think those are just fucked up girls, and real girls wouldn’t behave that way. He he. If so, pimps will tell you you’d be surprised the types of girls they turn. Look to the loverboys who keep many girls in love with them. Their friends and family all advise to leave that bad boy – he’s nothing but trouble – but she can’t. She literally can not. She’ll stick with him no matter what.

    There is an art to the type of dominance I advocate that is a powerful voodoo. Women ache for it. Of course they will fight. Of course the sisterhood will fight.

    Don’t just give up before you even begin. If you take the right approach and do it well, you WILL see good results. Absolutely.

  • xsplat

    Once a man internalizes being a huge, overwhelming and central authority in his woman’s life, that is what happens.

    I think you don’t understand that, Chuck. It’s an internal change. The woman eventually will feel that without you she is nothing. She’ll miss you if you are gone for even a few hours.

    I’m talking about being the center of her being, and being comfortable and proficient in that managerial role.

    If culture is affecting your ability to do that, it is only in that you can’t yet internalize that attitude.

  • King A (Matthew King)

    The Good Wife’s Guide is almost certainly a parody, as the included Snopes link indicates.

    But, by the Aprons of Hestia is that list gold. The idea that the truth presented plainly is regarded as satire in our age tells us just how decadent we have become. It amuses me when people think our modern arrangement is not only tenable but inevitable and permanent! We will one day look back in awe at how spectacularly wrong we got women in our time, a perversion that is as far from her nature as matter is from antimatter.

    Matt

  • New Porn Niche: Fantasies About Happy Married Sex | Happolati's Miscellany

    [...] According to Rollo Tomassi (hat tip: Vox Day), a new niche in porn has arisen, fantasizing about normal, married, heterosexual relations: one of the fasest growing sexual fetish (if that’s the proper term) porn sites and this is, believe it or not, married sex. No, I don’t mean cheating housewives (that’s been done to death), but actual married sex between couples that is in fact well done and pretty hot. I wont post the link, but you can Google Housewives 1 on 1 or the like and see what I mean. In each fantasy scenario the husband’s wife (all porn star hot) seduces him with a combination of lingerie, dirty talking, and at least a pretty convincing display of actual desire/lust/passion for having sex with him. After watching the trailer videos I couldn’t help but think that the reason for this becoming such a popular genre of porn is due to an unbelievability that in all rights should be believable, if not desirable. How pathetic a statement is it to think that within all of our over eroticizing society that we should come full circle and have made hot, married sex into sexual niche fantasy? [...]

  • SouthTX

    I’m lucky. The wife tells me when she is horny. When she is PMS’ing I stay away. The kid’s also do. They want to go with Dad out to the ranch. She later apologizes for it. Man, we screwed the pooch in the Garden of Eden. Our bad for eating the apple. She also knows not to f*ck with me too much. She know’s I don’t do shit tests.

  • SouthTX

    “screwed the pooch” local saying that we f*cked up

  • SouthTX

    Had an interesting talk with a son of a coworker. Four rotations in Iraq and two in afgan. Do you know many combat vet’s? Their viewpoints tell me that they are pissed off.. These guy’s I would want at my back. But when they tell you the stories. Whow. They were trained to do what somebody told them needed to be done. As a Christian, I weep for their inside pain. I would never wish it on my kid’s.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    I didn’t say that women don’t understand discipline. They most definitely do and done properly it is the only way to keep them in line. What I am saying is that you can only take the dominance thing so far with western women because you aren’t dating only her, you are dating her family and friends as well. And they love nothing more than to tell her how she should and shouldn’t feel about stuff like this.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    You are full of great insight but unfortunately the game is different here. It is different from other cultures and it is different now than it was 10 or 20 years ago. Women

    Your advice is akin to that of the PUA’s who theorize that you can maintain a relationship with a high value woman indefinitely with game alone. Bullshit. Upper tier women know what their pussy is worth and they might allow you short term access to it if you say the right things, but at the end of the day they are looking to get the best deal they can, and that ain’t with the burger flipping player. PUA’s will frame this in a way that makes them look like the one who moves on, but it is often the woman who hauls ass.

    The stuff you are talking about might work on chicks here IF you have wealth/status/power. The average everyday Joe simply isn’t going to be able to get away with over the top displays of dominance. The fact that you mention that it is “beneficial” for you to be the one buying the clothing that you cut up highlights my point. The situation you are in would not apply to 99% of men in the states.

  • xsplat

    I agree that it’s important to be a man who is important, in all ways possible, to the girl.

    But I’m also get the feeling that you underestimate psychological dominance, overestimate cultural differences, and lack confidence in the power of leadership.

    It was just a month ago where you claimed that attraction to money was only because money increased confidence. Not the money itself. Now you are going to the other extreme, and saying that psychological dominance itself can’t be powerful without money. That’s all over the map, don’t you think?

    Money gives powers that confidence does not – it’s a different category of attraction trigger than is confidence. And psychological dominance is also in a different category. Each in their on way has power, individually, and in addition. We agree that a man is best off gaining all attractive attributes that he can. But even without money, a guy living with a woman can pull off cutting up her clothes. If he can not then he has not enough hand to be living with her in the first place. Why be some womans little bitch? I expanded a bit on this subject in my latest blog post.

  • xsplat

    And it’s a fair comment to remind me that I haven’t lived in the west in over a decade.

    However you’ve NEVER lived here.

    The similarities are beyond your experience.

  • Firepower

    Still, that you are real does not negate my disdain for the pitfalls of marriage I stated. Romance is an ethereal event. How come it’s taken so long for you to find a substitute?

  • YaReally

    lol to this whole exchange. Just lol

  • Good Luck Chuck

    I didn’t say that dominance cannot be powerful without money, I said that you need wealth/status/power to pull off stuff like that. It’s a completely different dynamic if you actually are buying the shit you destroy to try to make a point.

  • itsme

    i just find it funny that his ex-wife is named ilusion.

  • carioca

    At same night lays, its not likely to have complete dominance over the woman. She’s giving you her body, but not yet her soul. Completely dominating a woman is very sexually exciting. Looking at her eyes and seeing her surrending to your male dominance. Its not possible before at least two days. When you have a healthy LTR, in which you play fully your male role, i.e. dominate, you can have this. The best sex of my life was wiht an hb 6 that gave me her body and soul, not with the 8 and 9s that were “rationally” fucking with me.

    Male-fermale dominance is very arrousing for men too, and its more likely to happen after some days/months/years.

    In the other hand, when you have a unhealthy LTR, like I did once, in which your woman dominates or is in the same hierarchy as you, you lose twice: no novelty (of the SML) and no dominance arrousement.

    Both scenarios are equally exciting. The first because of the girl’s novelty, adventure and accomplishment. The second because of the pleasure of possesing (completely, body and soul) a woman.

  • Friend

    This is silly. I do this all the time for my Husband. Of course, I get to stay home and not work an EXTRA job. We also stick to a budget. This allows me not to be freaked out and exhausted all the time AND to have some money to keep myself up.

    Women, when freed to be a women, like to do this. Men, when freed to be a man, get to have this.

    You can bet your life, Grandma was doing this for Grandpa back in the day. No quickie divorces and both knew that what was best for them was to keep it together.

    Always thinking someone else is better kills hot sex.

  • A

    Rollo you need to do a post on husband porn. There is never enough examples of how the man can inspire and motivate the behavior he wants in the woman, its always more about what he should do from a technical persepective. Please consider.

  • Gangstar

    Hey did you by any chance go to BRU? I currently go there and that description is spoootttt on (god damn heteronormativity).Any advice for a guy there right now? A freshman and I haven’t been able to get laid from a girl on campus once all year (i do all right with girls in my hometown).

  • Gangstar

    Oops I replied to the wrong post i meant to reply to Anony

  • Sam Spade

    100% honesty here from a married guy.

    Which scenario do you think is more likely to be actualized and why? In other word’s which is the more likely scenario to come true in reality?

    The first (singles sex) scenario is generally more likely, because a woman’s agency with any man is sex.

    Which scenario would you rather participate in in reality? Why?

    Probably the married one, mostly because I began to sour on one night stands or first-night sex toward the end of my single life. They usually left me feeling a little bit sickened and with some regret. I know that sounds weird, but it’s true. There’s always a risk involved, but that risk is higher if you are letting a woman you met hours earlier put her mouth around it. I preferred to do the 2-3 date thing and build tension.

    Which scenario do you think would make for the best sexual experience?

    Probably #1, because sex with someone for the first time is usually more interesting for a man.

    Has a woman ever seduced YOU whether single or by your wife?

    Yes.

    Just an addendum, my wife is a frequent initiator of sex. Sometimes I turn HER down because I’m not in the mood. (I try to limit this. But sometimes I’d rather be alone, watch TV, or even jack off than have sex.) I don’t know if she’d go through all the planning detailed in the scenario above, but she’s definitely “seduced” me. However we’ve only been married a couple of years.

  • So you think getting dressed for sex is a chore do you? « M3

    [...] few months ago Rollo put up a funny post about wife porn, but it was mainly the image that caught my eye. Needless to say it brought up some memories. [...]

  • Being feminine « On the Rock

    [...] This is something I have been struggling with for a very long time.  I was very much a tomboy as a child and for many years refused to wear a dress or anything girly.  I viewed the line “You throw like a girl” as a personal challenge and learned to do many things in a very masculine way.  How I dressed was part of this.  I didn’t go so far as to only wear men’s clothes, but I was very much a jeans and t-shirt type girl, throwing in the occasional girl shirt and very occasionally a dress.  I have gotten used to dressing up when the occasion called for it, but for many years even this was difficult for me (more on that to come).  At all other times comfort was king.  That comfort had nothing to do with anything feminine.  Over the past couple of years, I have been trying to change this but the going has been very slow (too slow).  It took the reading around the manosphere to point out that I have very much been like this (H/T Rollo Tomassi): [...]

  • tacomaster2

    Followed your link from Dalrock’s blog. Great article and commentary. I need to spend a day going through your old stuff. Terrific stuff man.

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