Kill the Beta

Rational reader Paul recently sought out my guidance for probably the single most asked for advice I receive.

I’ve read through your blog entirely, and my biggest issue is, how do I kill the beta? Every girl I sleep with, or even fool around with, I end up developing feelings for. Even if it was a one night stand or the girl is cheating on a bf with me. It’s like I have no self control; like I’m a girl that agonizes over every guy she sleeps with.

I wish I honestly had a definitive answer for Paul. If I could construct some step-by-step program, a universal template that men could all follow in order to kill their inner Beta, I’d be rich beyond my wildest dreams. Just as I said with about the Alpha Buddha, if I could find a way to bottle the essence of Alpha I’d be set for life. The real truth is that there is no simple answer to this, because each man’s conditions are unique to him. To be sure there are common roots to their problems, and common mindsets that form as results of attempting to formulate working sexual strategies (Beta Game) within the feminine Matrix, but undoing these mental schemas and reforming a better functional sexual strategy is unique to the individual.

I feel that this is the major reason Game is not taken as seriously as it should be – it’s a lot of work doing your own self-analysis and then creating a strategy to remake yourself. One of the reasons PUA gurus and the Game demigods of the last decade seem so cheap, like snake oil salesmen, is because they fail to take into account the degree of personalization necessary to truly kill the inner Beta that guys eventually have to confront. That’s an element of internalized Game that the guys doing seminars would rather not address because your degree of success, in truth how you even measure success, is entirely dependent upon you. Hooking up with girls you’d never had access to before may sell pick up DVDs; changing the inner workings of your personality is a much tougher order. If you ever look through the ‘self-help’ psychology section of a book store and wonder why there are so many books published in the topic, it’s exactly due to this dynamic – effecting a fundamental change in one’s life requires an effort that few people have the patience and perseverance for.

So with all of this in mind, let me say right now, I don’t have a map for you – anyone telling you they do is selling you something – however, I will attempt to point you in the right direction. I can’t say what will work, only you can find that out on your own, but try to bear in mind that changing yourself is a process that takes time. Even for the guy’s who have an easier go of transitioning to an internal Game-state personality, it’s still an ongoing process. I’d like to think of myself as at least a lesser Alpha (by Roissy’s measure), but that doesn’t mean I don’t trip up at times. This is what I mean by the process; you’re not going to be bulletproof and pass every shit test ever thrown at you, but be encouraged in knowing you learn from what you do wrong and adjust for the next time. There is no grand arrival moment when you know you’re an Alpha, or if you don’t like that term, there is no definitive point at which you’ve internalized Game. You don’t get some certificate of Game completion. You can, however, definitively change your thinking, it’s always on-going.

Knowing is half the battle

If there truly is a first step in internalization then it has to come from educating yourself. This is actually one of the most difficult tasks. If you’re a reader of my blog, or are at least peripherally aware of Game as a concept, this is going to seem pretty obvious, but remember that there’s an entire world of men who are still plugged in. Only a fraction of them will even be amenable to considering Game and positive masculinity, and fewer still will see its value. From our perspective it seems like a matter of course; we read the books/blogs, familiarize ourselves with the concepts, we pick what might work, experiment with ideas, evaluate the validity of them and adopt them or toss them. However what’s apparent to the unplugged seems like blaspheme to the plugged in.

Your “education” doesn’t stop once you’ve unplugged. In fact I’d argue that it’s even more vital in internalizing a new mindset since you’re now putting things into practice. One thing I remind guys who spit the red pill back up is that there is no going back. A lot of frustrated guys who discover Game and fail to apply it because they lack the social skills or they convinced themselves that PUArtistry was their easy magic formula to fuck the girl of their dreams, they tend to want to regress back into the comfortable shell of their former ignorance of intergender social dynamics. Only they find that there is no return. They see the truth in the what they’d been blind to no matter where they turn. The social interactions, the feminization, the raw deal they’ve been conditioned to accept as normal – all of that subtly reminds them of the truth they’re avoiding and they hate it. They become hostile to it.

I add this because it’s a very real danger for guys transitioning into internalizing positive masculinity. In the same respect you now have become (or should become) more sensitive to Game truths and the unplugged reality you now find yourself in. There’s a point of departure from what you thought was normal to seeing the signs around you. An easy illustration is really contemplating any gender related issue in popular media. You’ll hear a song, watch a sit-com, overhear a conversation in the lunch room, and begin to realize how surrounded you are by basic presumptions of a culture remade by feminine primacy. Understanding what your position in all of this is is crucial to internalizing a new mindset or backsliding into your old frame of thinking.

Practicing the change

It should be self-evident that applying what you’ve come to see as a new truth for yourself is vital. You need to get off the internet and field test the theories you learn here and elsewhere. Whether that means going to sarge at the clubs, or adopting a new attitude with your wife, or even the women you deal with at work, it’s really up to you. The hardest part of practicing change is the initial shock of having the people who know you question the validity of the new you. If you were to move to a new city, completely change your social circle and play the role of an asshole Alpha, no one is the wiser. However, make a radical shift in your personality with those who’ve known you for years and you’ll be a poser who’s “trying to be something he’s not”.

Human beings need predictability – it gives them a sense of control over others. When you alter yourself, or have your personality altered by an outside force, this is a threat to that predictability, so the logical counter is for others to attempt to put us back into our places. Shaming comes as a natural tactic for women, but the push is always to get you back into their frame. And that’s essentially the threat others interpret, the new you is a frame grab. Do it all at once and people will accuse your personality of being a disingenuous reaction to having been burned. Do it subtly and persistently over a time and people will be more willing to accept the change as genuine. Always insist on change, but never too quickly.

This is important to remember because your friends will be your biggest source of doubt in your transformation. They might mean well, but understand, that intent comes from a desire to see normalcy, not your best interest. The first time an old girl-friend you had a thing for calls the new you an “asshole”, it’s kind of a shock to the system. There’s always this stab at the old you who wants to set things rights, but you have to resist this impulse to take offense. It’s really hard to say “yeah, I am an asshole” as a point of pride when your whole prior life’s learning taught you not to offend others and particularly not girls you ever wanted to fuck. It’s counterintuitive to the beta in you. As sadistic as it sounds, you’ll be more consistently rewarded for your capacity to indirectly offend the women you want to get with, and the internal conflict this creates between the beta you and the burgeoning alpha you is the hardest part to reconcile. This is where most guys fail in transitioning, and this is primarily due to an unpracticed ability to keep their emotions in check.

Aesthetics vs. Social Robots

As I’ve stated before, men are the True Romantics, women are simply the vehicles for that rarely appreciated romanticism. One of the biggest gripes the post-sexual revolution feminization had with men was some prepackaged notion that men weren’t in touch with their feminine sides. We were “out of touch with our feelings”. God curse Carl Jung’s rotten corpse to hell for ever convincing popular culture that each sex had equal, but unexpressed, measures of feminine and masculine energies. Western culture has been so saturated with Jungian theory that we don’t recognize it as such. It’s become normalized to believe an idealized goal-state is a genderless, androgynous society.

Rants aside, up until the last 50 years, it has in fact been men who’ve been the sex with the most self-control regarding emotion. It’s been just this reservation that’s made Men more endearing to women. Either as enigmatic poets and artists to figure out, or as natural stoics who’s every measured expression of emotion is an event unto it’s self,  it’s been Men’s classic reservation of emotional inaccessiblity  that’s made women more interested in Men. In contemporary society, men are encouraged to express themselves as a primary way to accessing a woman’s intimacy – essentially killing any sense of mystery to unravel with full disclosure. Brain function gender differences aside, It would be my guess that men socially evolved a more reserved expression of emotion, not due to some juvenile insecurity, but rather because it so consistently worked in generating interest in women.

Not so in this age. At every instance boys and men are conditioned to think that emotional expression is a means to solving problems. Boys don’t cry, was instituted with a purpose. Unguarded easily expressed emotion is a feminine trait. It’s not that men should become social robots, deadened to all but the most intense emotion; it’s just become normalized to cheapen that expression by overuse. Displays of a Man’s emotions should be rarely given devine gifts  for women who are generally lacking in true appreciation as it is.

Unlearn what you have learned

It’s very difficult for a beta man, conditioned for so long to be emotionally available, to turn these emotions off. The good news is I’m not suggesting you do, I am suggesting you unlearn your reasons for developing emotional sentiments so easily. It’s easy to go emotionally cold as a result of being burned, it’s a much taller order to tamp that emotionality back into check when you’re really feeling good about it. Our emotions make us human and humane. It’s important to embrace that, but equally important to see how easily it’s used against you. You need to unlearn the reasons why you’re so easily emotional. Maybe it’s abandonment issues, maybe it’s a more deliberate conditioning in your upbringing.

Remember in high school, in drivers ed class, when you were taught to turn into a skid rather than turn with the skid? When we’re driving and we find ourselves in a skid our natural impulse is to slam on the the breaks and/or, worse still, to turn with the skid. Everything in our self-preservation instincts tells us to do this, but all it does is aggravate an already precarious situation. However, when we’re taught, and we practice, not hitting the brakes and not turning into the skid, often enough we make this our default reaction and we find that the car rights itself, we avoid disaster and continue safely on down the road.

You have to unlearn the old behaviors and condition new ones in order to right your course. This takes practice and repetition – even in the face of conditions that you would impulsively think would need to be reacted to otherwise.There is no substitute for perseverance.

Changing your mind about yourself is the first step. This is actually the most difficult step for guys because most don’t want to believe they need to internalize a new way of thinking about themselves. Lethargy, for the most part, can be the primary reason most guys don’t want to change. It’s far easier to create rationales for oneself as to why they are happy in their present condition than it is to critically confront and initiate real change.

Unfortunately, I can’t give you some standardized program to help you magically turn into the Man you hope to be. Only you can determine that course, but I will say this, the Man you wish to become requires you to take action. The goal posts for your own satisfaction will always keep moving away from you, and that’s a good thing. This is what inspires us to grow and mature and develop a capacity to overcome challenges. However, all this requires action on your part.

You can pore through all of the advice and sift out the wisdom from this blog and the community at large, but none of it will amount to anything for you if you wont act. I can’t begin to recall all of the times I’ve counseled young guys, giving them all manner of advice and encouraging them to put it into practice, only to have them constantly bemoan that they can’t find the motivation. More often than not it takes some traumatic experience or they have to be reduced to having nothing left to lose before they’ll really have the fire lit under their asses to become more than they are.

I don’t consider myself a motivational speaker, but at some point you have to cross the abyss and change your mind about yourself.


68 responses to “Kill the Beta

  • Dirt Man

    Great post man, excellent. This stuff is hard to write about and I think you’ve really nailed some stuff here.

    The truth is definitely something you can’t turn back from once you start down the road. Certain life situations almost become intolerable when you see them clearly (i.e., “The social interactions, the feminization, the raw deal they’ve been conditioned to accept as normal”) I disagree slightly with the comments about Jung, but that’s just because I think he is misunderstood. I think feminists take what he said and twisted it to their own purposes. That’s just my take on Jung having spent a good deal of time studying his stuff in my late 20s.

    There’s no one-size-fits-all solution for killing the beta, as you point out. Donlak had a great post earlier this year on venting the beta, where you let it out privately when it rears its ugly head, which I think some may find useful. My thoughts are that you just feel it internally if it arises, but don’t express it. Being mindful that it’s there, you let it come and go but don’t act on it. Not acting on it seems to decrease it’s potency.

    One other thing, I do think there is a point at which you “pass every shit test”, so to speak, and that is the point where you simply don’t care anymore. A point where they are responding differently to you. To put it another way, you’re only interacting with women in a way that is disarming of all but the most benign of testing on their parts. Much like roissy’s recent post on dealing with bitchy girls, there’s no “passing” it, so to speak. You simply don’t engage them past a certain point, you don’t care and move on. When women know you are truly indifferent, if they want you even the slightest bit, they don’t throw down the gauntlet. They know you’ll just say, psh, and move on.

    Again, hard to write about.

  • YOHAMI

    Eh

    http://yohami.com/blog/2011/11/05/for-a-guy-to-become-alpha-he-has-to-look-for-a-pack-of-dogs-an-area-of-interest-where-he-can-capitalize-his-attributes-and-develop-alpha/

    I think there is, for sure, a clear roadmap to become Alpha. Why? because there´s a clear roadmap to become Beta. There´s a simple sequence of steps for every dance. The variations have more to do with the willingness to change and the specific strengths and desires of a person, than they have to do with the actual stuff that has to be done.

  • Brian

    “It’s really hard to say “yeah, I am an asshole” as a point of pride when your whole prior life’s learning taught you not to offend others and particularly not girls you ever wanted to fuck. It’s counterintuitive to the beta in you.”

    I think the thing that helped me through this the most was having a couple of hobbies that are already pretty masculine, and then pushing them to the point that most people doing those look at how I approach them and are impressed.

    It’s a lot easier to be cocky about how awesome you are when you turn it into a reality. Also, when you make that a reality, your friends aren’t that shocked at the attitude change.

  • King A

    The correspondent wrote: “Every girl I sleep with, or even fool around with, I end up developing feelings for. Even if it was a one night stand or the girl is cheating on a bf with me.”

    O you poor fool! and a curse on the “PUA” jagoffs corroding your soul!

    To label this biological, existential fact of sex as something “beta” and therefore something to be “killed,” is a crime on par with feminist denaturing. Don’t make me research the studies; you evo-psych groupies should already be familiar with them. Sex alters you (women more than men, much more). Sex is supposed to alter you. It is supposed to bond you. That bond is the singular sexual achievement of a life’s effort. Its embryonic development is not something to be aborted but rather incubated wisely. That many deal unwisely with the inescapable tendency to bond is no reason to say we must snuff it out. We don’t execute juvenile delinquents for shoplifting.

    Of course, to understand that this bond is constituent to the summum bonum of sexuality, you either have to spend a life achieving it or trust the ones who are already at the mountaintop. Because you can’t have both. Just as a woman can’t simultaneously dedicate her life to matronage and also prostitution, and then on her deathbed decide which was worth the 75 years of dedication. The fullest expression of that bond is a mutually-excluding either-or proposition. PUAs have zero business pontificating on the road not taken.

    The ability for full assessment only comes at the end, not while you’re in the middle of wild-oats season. Of course the ant who stores food for the winter will seem foolish to the grasshopper in summer. But what can the grasshopper say about the pleasures of those who survive winter, of those who eat the fruit of their foresight while the spindly-legged instant-gratification insects are shivering outside the anthill?

    Now, I hope Rollo will cite his long marriage as the credentials justifying his pontification on both sides of the choice. And as far as judges go, his experience in both worlds makes his assessment as good as any. But in the same way, he is all too safe experimenting with other people’s lives, particularly the correspondent, from the relative safety of his stable marriage bond.

    What if the best candidate for the correspondent’s bond was among the girls his correspondent had slept with or even fooled around with? Rollo’s advice to kill every thought of this possibility is the kind of recklessness that stability encourages an older man to advise. It is like Warren Buffett telling young investors to chase high-volatility penny stocks. The fact of Rollo’s good and loyal wife may be simple fortune — luckily selecting one sky-high winner out of a pile of losers. But it does not help young marketers build a decent portfolio for themselves.

    Rollo needs to be more forthcoming about how to transition from where his correspondents/students are and where he is today. The advice to denature oneself from the possibility of connection might help alpha-ize some betas in the short run but minimize the chances for a “golden pussy parachute” after they retire from the field.

    Yes indeed, the biological bond of carnal contact can lead the untutored into terrible life choices, like marriage to a disloyal feminist harridan. But the solution to this is not an avoidance of — or absolute vilification of — the bond at all costs. That’s like burning down your house because you have a rat in the walls. Sure, you technically “solve” the rat problem, but what options have you foreclosed in the process?

    The (presumably) young man deserves better advice. His instinct to bond with the lovely creature with which he just physically consummated — or even rutted from behind — is a true and good instinct surrounded by terrible, life-destroying dangers. How he navigates around those instincts and dangers will determine the destiny of his sex life and love life. Paranoia in the service of defeating all possibility of risk is awful advice to give young men. I hope he finds this blog post, and I hope he scrolls down for the other side of the story.

  • Brian

    Easier way to put it would be this:

    Look at the things you keep saying you wish you could do, and just go do them. Stop wishing you could play the guiter and just take the damn lessons keep practicing. If kite boarding or whitewater kayaking seems awesome to you, do it.

    The only acceptable reason to not pursue something that you think would be awesome is because something else more awesome is taking up too much of your time to do both.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    Sex alters you (women more than men, much more). Sex is supposed to alter you. It is supposed to bond you. That bond is the singular sexual achievement of a life’s effort.

    Misattribution of Arousal

    http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/07/07/misattribution-of-arousal/#more-1286

    “Aron and Dutton showed when you feel aroused, you naturally look for context, an explanation as to why you feel so alive. This search for meaning happens automatically and unconsciously, and whatever answer you come up with is rarely questioned because you don’t realize you are asking. ”

    “You sometimes make up a reason for why you feel the way you do, and then you believe your own narrative and move on.”

  • caRIOca

    Great post!

    To ‘make a radical shift in your personality with those who’ve known you for years” is really hard and embarrassing.

  • (R)evoluzione

    Yohami, I read your original post,and I do agree with you completely.

    I’ve found that in my area of expertise, I’m considered an authority and a leader, and thus a strong alpha. I get NO shit tests from women in this realm. I get tons of IOI’s, and have my pick of several women at a given event in this industry.

    But I don’t think this speaks to directly to what Rollo is writing about here. It’s more about dealing with attachment issues, e.g. one-itis.

    One can be an alpha male in one’s field, and still develop an unhealthy one-itis.

  • Flahute

    “. . . but the push is always to get you back into their frame. And that’s essentially the threat others interpret, the new you is a frame grab.”

    You hit upon my primary issue in my marriage right here. Has anybody else out there experienced this?

    Since taking the red pill, my marriage has gotten worse. Perhaps too quickly and in the context of a struggling marriage, I amplified the Alpha and have been grabbing the frame and taking the power back. She has been fighting this strongly with shaming, insults, silence, and ultimately deploying her greatest weapon, her sexual access. So I took away as much as I could – the beta stuff. I no longer give her affection, I don’t talk to her or listen to her problems, I don’t do her any favors or take care of her the way I normally would. I just take care of my household and do my thing. I don’t treat her with anger or disrespect her, I treat her with indifference, aloofness.

    I’m in a difficult place, because if I leave her, I become a peripheral in the lives of my 2 kids. The only thing I know to do is to maintain this frame until she comes to me and wants to work things out.

    I’ve always had some game and what I’ve learned from Roissy and others has just made it tighter. When she cut me off, I converted a friend of a friend to a FWB, I’m having an affair with a married woman 15 years younger, and I’m seducing another 7 years younger. Now I have new problem: If she comes back to me, I don’t know how I can go back to monogamy – seduction is just too damn seductive.

    Rollo I would appreciate any advice you can provide. (yahoo- flahute.niko)

  • (R)evoluzione

    King A, great response.

    Rollo, I thought about this post long and hard this morning. I have that same lesser-alpha tendency you do–strong drive with women and decent success as a natural.

    However, from my early teen years up until maybe a couple of years ago, I was wickedly predisposed to massive crushes, massive unrequited one-itis of the most debilitating type. I was hugely romantic, and almost always got my heart crushed in a vice.

    The one time it was a mutual one-itis was even more destructive, but also deeply educational, because I went deep into that oxytocin-induced beta-haze, which eventually drove away the woman I was so deeply in love with. When I learned from that experience, I realized I NEVER AGAIN wanted to give myself so completely to another person. Giving myself up so much was exhilarating, in the way that free-fall in skydiving is exhilarating–it’s the impending onrush of annihilation that makes it so powerful. But I knew I never wanted another relationship like that.

    After that, I had one more onset of one-itis, but somehow I was able to short-circuit that emotional programming, and turn it into an alpha response instead of beta.

    To speak to the meat of King A’s post–we don’t want to kill the beta. We do want to bond to a woman & love deeply and be vulnerable. Whether that process is empowering, or enslaving, is measured simply by the degree to which we allow that process to happen. If we let go of ourselves too much, we lose that alpha composure, the unflappable, calm and centered nature of the true man. If we don’t allow ourselves to let go, it’s unlikely to truly bond with someone and have that loving vulnerability that is at the beating heart of men. It’s all about balance.

    Don’t get me wrong–I still want that deep romantic love. I don’t have that right now, despite having a lot of great sex. But not having that love doesn’t bother me. Not having deep love used to irritate me, it made me sad. Now I feel good about where I am, and I have faith that the right things will happen.

    To sum up, what we’re really talking about here is finding that alpha/beta balance. To do that, one needs experience, and the ability to truthfully analyse one’s own life and emotions, and make meaningful and lasting corrections.

  • YOHAMI

    I was addressing this part

    “I don’t have a map for you – anyone telling you they do is selling you something”

    Because, for me the map is quite obvious, and thats the reason I blog

  • 5 Ways to Stop Being Such A Beta « petesgamethoughts

    [...] This is a follow on from this fantastic piece: http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/ [...]

  • ♠A

    The “step-by-step program” I used was ‘No More Mr. Nice Guy’ by Dr. Robert Glover.

  • Nummm

    I am the reader that sent Rollo this message, I can answer any questions, if anyone has them.

    My goal is, ultimately, to get rid of the “beta” so to speak, completely. I never want to feel the urge to get married, to settle down, or anything of the sort. I think it is just such a raw deal for men, and can be so destructive, that getting rid of my beta tendencies towards women is critical for survival in today’s modern SMP. I don’t ever want to feel tenderness or affection for a woman ever again; she wouldn’t be capable of feeling the same for me.

    I have had some success since I this e-mail was written. The biggest thing, I found, was for me to learn how to love myself. I was raised to be self sacrificial, and I caught myself doing it without even thinking about it. Even little things, like giving up my coat to a woman, or making sure the passed out girl at a party gets home safely. I now love myself more. Fuck the girl that’s too cold, if I give her my coat, then I’m cold too. Fuck the girl who was stupid enough to pass out in a house full of strangers. Their choices, their problems, their consequences.

    Being more “Alpha”, as some of the things suggested to me, thus far, wouldn’t do much for me. I already lift weight, I’m quite muscular, I’m planning on getting a sleeve tattoo that I’ve designed and saved up for months for come january, and when I graduate University, the first thing I’m going to buy is a motorcycle. The issue is, all those things are shallow; I would still have the craving to find that “special girl”, to treat her with special care and affection, to love her, cherish her, all that shit that’s been crammed down my throat since I was a kid. I need to get rid of that part of me.

    I agree with Rollo that there is no one size fits all; my beta tendencies spring from my high need for succorance, due to my experiences growing up. So now I’m focusing on myself, I am surrounding myself with friends, with people that will care for me regardless of whether or not I am beta, and I am finding that I have less of a need for women in this regard; I don’t crave affection the same way I used to. And to a degree, I’ve had to harden myself. I can’t wear my heart on my sleeve anymore; it’s just time to put childish things aside. I will, in all likelihood, adopt a dog soon. Maybe I am turning into the male equivalent of a cat lady. We’ll see.

    I’ve also had to learn how to move on. I’m not talking about forgiving and forgetting; I would just end up back at square one if I did that. I just need to continue to realize and accept the fact that agonizing over my past won’t give me a better tomorrow.

    So that has been what is working for me.

  • Nummm

    Oh, also, yes, making a radical shift in personality was difficult, but the biggest issue was so many “friends” that I had that tried to put me back in my place. It is amazing the resistance you will get from people when you try to move from snivelling beta. So I just cut them out of my life completely; I don’t talk to them, I ignore them if we run into each other, and I deleted them from facebook. I have made new friends since then.

    Part of this goes back to a post that Rollo made about not digging through your trash; this is so true. Women will kill themselves trying to ensure that you stay beta, instead of self-actualizing. It is much easier to create a new alpha impression on new woman, then it is convincing the other ones to stop looking down on you.

  • Loller

    Here’s something to practice – don’t develop ONEitis.

    for starters: never fap to a girl with which you may have a chance.

  • johnnymilfquest

    ^^ This.

  • King A

    “Aron and Dutton” might as well be Abbot and Costello as far as I care. I don’t contract out my answers to theorists of secondary sources who base their “findings” on conjectural junk science.

    Maybe “Aron and Dutton” were gay for each other, working too closely in the lab, accidentally sucked a little cock, and were looking to ground their mistaken affair in “science.”

    I’m not gay, Dr. Dutton, we were just caught up in the moment and “believing our own narrative.” It’s best we “move on.”

    On the internal logic of what you cite alone, you still avoid the issue. Even if we had the tendency to see narratives where they aren’t there, that says nothing final about the veracity of that narrative. And even if we fabricated bonds out of thin air, how does that prove that those bonds are something to be avoided, anathemized, and condemned?

    Further, dopamine is naturally occurring. Meth, for example, accesses dopamine to create its effect. We begin manufacturing naturally occurring bonding chemicals the moment we cross the barrier to intimacy — or as your correspondent Paul put it, “even fool around,” much less engage in full intercourse in six different positions. Here cums oxytocin too, which decreases fear and increases trust. The physical carnal act begins a process of natural chemical addiction to dopamine and oxytocin, a bond whether we want one or not.

    Surely the “god of biomechanics” evolved this process into us for a reason. Surely we should pause before denaturing ourselves. How is it that alphas at the apex of the pyramid, whose sexual success has dominated the gene pool for 100,000 years, yet retain this destructive chemical quirk? Maybe it’s not destructive.

    Maybe it’s not “beta.”

    You rationalize backwards from your stated objective — getting one’s dick into as many holes as quickly and as infertilely as possible — then announce all deviations to be “beta,” then declare that all betaism must be “kill[ed].” This is not rigorous discovery of and promulgation of the truth. This is tautological noise.

    But forget all that. What of your marriage? Have you gone the way of the beta, or do you have a wife-approved harem, or do you commit adultery? Is alpha behavior only appropriate for one stage in life, and then that dread bonding only appropriate later? If so, what is the cut-off? When should your young charges focus back to the recovery of their beta-bonding capacity? Or do you not consider your marital bond something to be murdered with extreme prejudice? Where does that come from?

  • King A

    Nummm wrote: “The biggest thing, I found, was for me to learn how to love myself. I was raised to be self sacrificial, and I caught myself doing it without even thinking about it.”

    You were raised right, and now you have chosen to consign yourself to a solipsistic, literally masturbatory (“love myself”) horror.

    I have a question for you, since you offered. You say, “I never want to feel the urge to get married, to settle down, or anything of the sort.” Then why are you taking the advice of a married man who will carry out his days doing the precise opposite?

    This is exactly what happens when zealotry extrapolates a good idea to its most grotesque extreme, like a roided-up musclebound body-builder who began his weight training in the pursuit of health.

    “I don’t ever want to feel tenderness or affection for a woman ever again; she wouldn’t be capable of feeling the same for me.”

    Damned fool. The disease of the age is uxorious beta doting over entitled cows; that doesn’t mean the cure is replacing affection with contempt. That is curing cancer by deliberately contracting HIV. You will destroy yourself on your own untenable, self-aggrandizing self-regard.

    Careless PUA tools sending naive kids off to their annihilation. Hello? Rollo? You still around? This is the result you intended? You’re proud of this?

    “I now love myself more. Fuck the girl that’s too cold, if I give her my coat, then I’m cold too. Fuck the girl who was stupid enough to pass out in a house full of strangers. Their choices, their problems, their consequences.”

    This is how your half-baked, and ill-thought-through theories manifest themselves in the lives of real people. I won’t attempt to shame you into correcting for your carelessness. A denatured cad is a denatured cad. I’ll just say to Paul Nummm: the little pussyboy who derives false notions of “alpha” from his ability to disregard a woman’s pain is an omega tarted up in a cheap alpha leisure suit, fooling no one but himself.

    Weak men with pretensions of strength think the domination of the weak is proof of their status. Bullies one IQ-point above Special Ed class make fun of the full retard to puff up their pathetic egos. In fact, strong men do not go out of their way to say, “Fuck the girl that’s too cold,” because easing her chilliness is hardly a bother. He has strength to spare. Only the sniveling hoarder jealous of every last ounce of his hard-won strength would make a point of deliberately ignoring the weak. The domination of the weak is a given to men of power. It cannot possibly be the animating source of their identity.

    The downtrodden whom Rollo takes such pride in “liberating” are only being made slave to pathetic delusions of revenge because Rollo’s moral economy is inconsistent and confused.

  • Muse

    I think the way to kill beta is to become aware of what types of behaviour are actually beta. I think the biggest problem guys face though is the shifting sands in a relationship that also contribute to whether an act could be considered beta or not. This is bound to confuse the initiate. For e.g buying flowers after 2 dates could be considered beta. But a guy buying his good wife of 5 years is far from it. What is even more confusing is that many beta acts may not actually be beta at all if there is no underlying neediness and outcome driven behaviour.

  • Nummm

    Lets address your points:

    I felt I was raised wrong, my upbringing had to have been wrong, or else, why did I grow into a non-functional, unhappy young adult? This isn’t solipsism on my part, in any sense of the word. I acknowledge the existence of others, I just need to spend less of my existence focusing on them, and more focusing on me.

    I’m taking Rollo’s advice because it resonates with me. Just because he lived his life differently doesn’t invalidate his ideas. His arguments are well crafted, and very reasonable. How do his personal life style choices impact that? I get the feeling he would live his life differently if he knew then what he knew now. No offense or anything, Rollo. And frankly, beyond that, I’m not OK with marrying the bulk of women; being an eternal Peter Pan is greatly preferred. The girls my age are still doing their best to ride the carousel, but you can start to see the cracks from in the hardened riders. All men are assholes, jerks, users, etc. You can’t turn a ho into a housewife, and the sad fact is by the time the average women is done with university/college, she’s already been around the block a few times.

    I am not going to destroy myself, I’m not interested in trying to find the sweet spot between total cad and uxorious beta. I’m tired of trying to walk some tight rope in the middle, which is really just another form of supplication to women. You mean I can be a bad boy that makes her gina tingle, but be beta enough to give a girl a loving relationship? Why would I do that? If I can make her tingle, then I can make other women tingle. Why should I limit myself to the feminine reproductive imperative? I am going to look out for myself, the same way women look out for themselves. I fail to see how this will annihilate me.

    I don’t care what you would classify me, I don’t care what anyone would classify me to be totally honest. If it makes me an omega, that’s fine, as long as I get laid, and don’t end up having to pay someone elses bills, and wake up with a smile on my face. I don’t care if it makes me a bully, and while, yes, the goal is to develop strength in abundance, the secondary goal is to develop wisdom in such quantities that I use this strength to better my own life.

    The domination of the weak isn’t my goal; I don’t dream of being a Nietszchean-style ubermensch, this isn’t going to be an animating source of my identity. I am big on value creation, so acceptance of a Will to Power style morality would be just as bad as acceptance of mainstream cultural values. I fully intend on deciding what I find pleasing and palatable. It just happens to include selfishly favouring myself.

    I don’t want revenge, I just want the rest of my life to get better than the first portion. That’s it. Not being “Alpha”, not playing to any sort of script. That involves changing old patterns of thought, old habits, abandoning morals and values that are in direct contrast to my own best interests, and caring about myself. I cannot stress how little revenge factors in the decisions I make. A huge part of my project involves learning how to ignore that craving for revenge. It only holds me back from self actualization.

  • Rollo Tomassi

    It interesting to me to see how wildly a binary response is generated when you lock horns with the ego-invested ideologies that are counter to it. People worry that the world might stop turning if we stray too far from their interpretation of the path of predictability.

    My intent with this post wasn’t to turn Paul or anyone else into a vengeful Frankenstein polar opposite of his self-conflicted “true nature”. Go back an re-read the Aesthetics vs, Social Robots section of this essay. I added it precisely because I see the need for a balance in those binary impulses. There’s a definite need for tempering the extremism of that uncaring, assholish, mechanical nihilist with the flowery, sensitive, poetic romantic impulse that far more men suffer from in the feminine-centric reality we find ourselves in.

    I’ve had a successful marriage for 15+ years now BECAUSE I found that balance. I learned that prosaic, beta-ness that men are prone to is only ever appreciated in very small doses. I learned that having a lot of options and the capacity to generate them is a foundation for a woman’s respect. I had my harem in my 20’s which is precisely why I’ve bonded and am faithful to my wife now: I don’t feel I missed out on anything.

    Flowery prose doesn’t make your personal beliefs a universal truth. A great deal of hate is fueled by false premises. Concocting convenient scenarios, imagining the worst of your enemies, and reinterpreting their successes are a salve for the burned ego and the binary mindset. Newsflash: your thin-skinned indignation is not other’s moral crisis. Not every guys has to have sex to make himself feel better about himself.

    You’re not enlightening anyone with your binary White Knight rhetoric. If you choose to derive your personal value from some esoteric sense of what sex ‘should’ mean, more power to you, but I find it’s a much healthier position to accept a balance between our carnal natures and our higher aspirations. It’s not one or the other. It’s OK to want to fuck just for the sake of fucking – it doesn’t have to be some source of existential meaning. It is as equally unhealthy to convince oneself that self-repressions are virtues as it is to think that unfettered indulgences are freedoms. There is a balance.

    Guy’s don’t seek out the community because they’re getting too much pussy and need advice on how to manage it all at the risk of becoming desensitized to their romantic souls. They seek it out because up to that point what they do ISN’T WORKING. Worry less about men callously creating their own personal harems and more about the damage that’s wrought by relying on pleas to women’s sympathies.

  • walawala

    @Rollo

    Your last paragraph starting “Guys don’t seek out the community because they’re getting too much pussy….”

    …really hits home.

    I sought it out after crashing with a girl who came on like gang busters and then pulled away.

    I was clueless as to why and what to do.

    Since learning game I’ve done so much better. But now I’m seeing a girl for 8 months.

    I’m also in your words “Spinning plates” and gaming other girls.

    I have to. The girl i’m seeing gets demanding and possessive and any appeasing of that only makes things worse not better.

    When she thinks I’m seeing someone else, she doesn’t like it but she settles down.

    As for seeing other girls…the fact they know I’m with someone else raises my value.

    And women are discrete overall. When I game them…they rarely ask “Do you have a girlfriend.” Why? Because they sense that if they scared me off or pissed me off, they’d lose that attention they think they’re getting from my teasing, cocky funny/ DHV etc.

    Chicks love that.

    If you’re a “nice guy”…they disappear.

  • (r)Evoluzione

    I had that rule for a long time. It worked, until I gathered enough strength, enough game, that it no longer mattered. It’s still probably a good idea not to fap too much to any one girl, and to control one’s seminal emission, keeping it to a minimum so as to maintain maximum endocrine tone.

  • Waxey Gordon

    I think the key part of killing the beta is to defeat the media’s feminist talking points that elevate women to walking goddesses and denigrate men to cockroaches.

    In such an environment, it’s little wonder men feel the need to sacrifice their self respect for a trashy low class women simply because of her gender.

    When I learned these truths, it didn’t take much more for me to unplug fully. It all started to come together logically and with little effort. Therefore, I think removing the god like pillars from beneath women’s feet is the starting point from which most men should begin their studies.

  • King A

    Vaya con Dios, brother. You have set yourself up to become a repulsive human being, too taken by ideology to properly hate the grotesque parody of a man you will have become.

    Why did you “grow into a non-functional, unhappy young adult?” Why did the plant wither and die and bear no fruit? Maybe it was lack of sunlight. Or maybe it had plenty of light but wasn’t watered. Or maybe the soil wasn’t changed. Or maybe its leaves were over-pruned. Or under-pruned.

    You have taken one small part of being a man — do not be hen-pecked by feminine prerogatives — and made it your mantra, with all the rigid, unreflective behavior to follow. This is not a problem with your upbringing or manliness or lack thereof; this is a problem with classifying certain noble virtues as “beta,” with a crucial assist from single-minded PUAs who have no business fabricating a comprehensive ethic whose ultimate consequences they do not have the capacity to understand.

    “I’m not OK with marrying the bulk of women…” Nor should you be. “… being an eternal Peter Pan is greatly preferred.” This does not exhaust the list of possibilities. PUAs fail to consider — out of a simple lack of interest or the fact that it goes beyond the scope of their expertise — what “being an eternal Peter Pan” actually entails. Focused as they are on redeeming their own youth by tinkering with others, they have no acknowledgment of, much less respect for, the road not taken. They suffice it to allow their “students” to be the guinea pigs upon which their half-baked notions are to be tested.

    “I get the feeling he would live his life differently if he knew then what he knew now. No offense or anything, Rollo.” That can very well be true. That means you are fashioning your “self actualization” based on the moist-eyed regrets of elders trying to impart their peterpanism as penance for perceived missed opportunity in their own lives. A man should recoil at being the pawn in another man’s psychological drama, wise though the elder be.

    You evaluate your volunteered contingency by saying his argument “resonates with me…. [It is] well crafted, and very reasonable.” Well, it’s not an argument, and it’s not reasonable. It is assertion. It is, as you imply (and then apologize for the implication), the regrets of an old man. And you willfully ignore the more important part. His customized modus vivendi for you is nothing more than wistful shoulda-beens tarted-up to be “resonant” with the ephemeral urges of youth.

    I cannot possibly argue an ideologue out of his commitment, so please don’t mistake my opposition of your rank foolishness as an attempt at persuasion. I am just trying to contain the pandemic at the point of its personal infection in you. You are free to offer your life to the sloppy (but really exciting!) notions of philosophasters persuasively argued. You would hardly be the first. We have many examples — Marxism and feminism, to name the two most obvious — over the last two centuries of what happens when quarantine is broken, and energetic idiocy is allowed to spread. You may wither and die “deciding what [you] find pleasing and palatable” and “selfishly favoring [your]self,” that lonely Epicurean hell you have fashioned for your future. But your self-immolation should not spread to the others who are not stubbornly determined to misunderstand the requirements of game for purposes of superficial gratification.

    Not only are you not the first to suicide himself on another man’s idea, that other man’s idea itself is the furthest thing from original. Put down the R’s, Rollo and Roosh and Roissy, and buy yourself the vowel E: Epicurus and Epictetus. “Self actualization” is bigger than you, and men far wiser than gameboys have wrestled with it at least as long as there has been philosophy. If you are going to offer yourself up on an altar, make sure it’s a sturdier one than the dashed-off blog-posts of a webmaster controlled by nostalgia.

    You want to be “alpha,” do you? You want fierce independence and radical self-centeredness? Well, you’re doing it wrong. You can’t be a non-contingent being by swallowing whole the assumptions of other men, superior though they be. An alpha has to do more work than simply take orders. The skill you must acquire right now, before anything else, is to learn how to discern between “well crafted” and “reasonable” sounding sophistry and an actual argument you can independently receive or reject. The most harrowing component of your awful self-examination is your inability to distinguish between assertion and argument, relegating you to parroting another man’s fabricated directives as the essence of wisdom.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    More problems trying to wrap the word “alpha” around a package it doesn’t fit.

    That aside, the real issue here is FINDING a woman who is worthy of your love, not “killing the beta” to free yourself from the shackles of bonding with a typical american skank.

    If your only frame of reference is women who are raised not to deserve your devotion, of course you are going to find yourself disillusioned.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Oh and King A…..START A BLOG ALREADY

  • King A

    Rollo wrote: “My intent with this post wasn’t to turn Paul or anyone else into a vengeful Frankenstein polar opposite of his self-conflicted ‘true nature’.”

    If it wasn’t your intent, you need to manage unintended consequences better. You might start by refraining from mislabeling the balancing factors as “beta” and then suggesting we “kill” them with extreme prejudice.

    “You’re not enlightening anyone with your binary White Knight rhetoric.”

    Not sure if this was directed at me, as it was (rather pusillanimously) addressed to no one in particular, but I’ll take it up. I am not a “white knight.” I am a white avenging god who is displeased at the casual redefinition of all acts of magnanimity as the mark of a weak and deluded “beta” who has no choice but to be cringing and deferential.

    “Guy’s [sic] don’t seek out the community because they’re getting too much pussy and need advice on how to manage it all at the risk of becoming desensitized to their romantic souls.”

    No, they “seek out the community” because it reduces the lifelong challenge of becoming and maintaining alpha to a series of simple precepts that just so happen to reinforce and legitimate their basest impulses. I would rather you just be up-front about this like Roissy, rather than dabbling so awkwardly into a realm of thinking you have no talent for.

  • Nummm

    Allow me to retort:

    There is more to my mantra than simply not being hen pecked. I need to learn how to look out for myself; no one else does. That involves not being henpecked, yes, but so much more aswell.
    The reason why certain virtues are derided as beta, is because of the disgust they inspire in people, more specifically, women. I literally cannot inspire disgust, hate and derision as successfully as I can simply by treating women well. I don’ t know why, perhaps it’s a malady of our times, perhaps it’s something else. But being beta is sure fire way to get a woman to hate you, at worst, and at best, will be unappreciated and ignored.
    I am willing to roll the dice on being a guinea pig. If I go with mainstream social and cultural norms, I’m just a cow to be slaughtered. No thanks. I realize there is an inbetween between Peter Pan and supplicating beta, but it strikes me as rather pointless. I can get the exact same thing without having to walk a tightrope and supplicate, without having to play to a script. I can just be selfish and have the same results, completely and totally.

    Rollo provides me with ideas and inspirations, but I’m not blindly accepting what he has to say. I thik the idea of marriage is completely ludicrous, and I am AMAZED that he even got married in the first place. I just don’t understand how someone with a deep understanding of women could ever entertain the though of marriage. I really have no interested in following orders, I am trying to find my own way in the world, and when someone who has a decade+ more experience than I do give me a suggestion, I will atleast consider it.
    Rollo’s writing are arguments in every sense of the world They begin with various premises and logically draw to his conclusions. Much more than assertions. Much more. Also, shoulda beens? While I am taking it on faith, Rollo had his PUA days, his harem days, and now he is married. He has run the whole gamut. Why shouldn’t I seriously consider someonewho has seen both sides of the coin?

    You have nothing to worry about me preaching my thought and ideas to others. I have no intention of starting a blog, I have no intention of becoming a public demagogue. The furthest I plan on going is warning a few friends that would be amicable to my thoughts.

    I’m familiar with Epicureanism; I like the ideas, I don’t know if it’s feasible, but I do draw inspirations from it. I don’t know how to convince you of this, or if there is even a point, but, I’m not blindly believing in everything I read. If I was, I would be a good little Christian boy, desperately trying to man up and marry an aging carousel rider. I don’t “swallow” the assumptions of others, I am desperately trying to find out what works for me; blind acceptance doesn’t facilitate that.

    I fail to see how the writings of Rollo or Roissy (classic Roissy, I havne’t read the blog in quite some time as its gone down hill) or so many others in the manosphere fail to qualify as arguments. We have statistics, perfectly reasonable premises and conclusions; I fail to see how this is simple sophistry, but I’m all ears to learn.

    I enjoy your posts King A, look forward to reading more of your ideas.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    To expand on what I wrote earlier I want to point out that the first time I read this post I was going to respond directly to the question at hand by pointing out that this is yet another example of why the alpha designation doesn’t fit this application and only serves to boost the egos of those who believe that they have transformed themselves into an “alpha”, and to confuse those who are in the early stages of trying to unplug themselves by painting women as the goalpost as opposed to the party favors after the game.

    Other posters touched on this idea, but the REAL way to get rid of the beta is to become a TRUE alpha. Not by the roissy definition, by the dictionary definition. Get your ass out there and BECOME the guy the PUA’s are trying to imitate. You are getting sucked into these women’s reality because you AREN’T the guy they really want to be with, you are the guy trying to keep up a facade. You are forced to constantly play offense. If you were the the real deal, you would have your pick of the litter without having to devote half of your life to collecting phone numbers and dealing with flaky bitches. And that’s a game changer. It’s a lot easier to avoid getting hung up on one woman when you know in the back of your mind that your TRUE sexual market value is through the roof.

  • Nummm

    GLC:

    Agreed; Built it and they will come. I realize I don’t want to be a typical PUA sort of guy. I know those guys, they spend every weekend at the bar, getting numbers, fooling around, even having one night stands, but they don’t actually enjoy any of it. And they’re crushed if they’re unsuccessful.

    This is excellent advice that I will be taking.

  • King A

    I’m starting my blog the day after Roissy publishes his book.

  • King A

    Being callous or indifferent or malicious to a woman is like rapping a dog on the nose with a newspaper. One does it when it becomes necessary to demonstrate who’s the boss of her. But it is a failure in the final analysis. Worse, you, Nummm, have elevated it to a driving-force philosophy, as evidenced by your featuring it in the comment reply above. That amplifies a failure into a catastrophe.

    Rising betas get stuck in this revelation — what allowed them to taste alpha was their shabby treatment of women, and so they misunderstand this as the essence of alpha, and mistake the technique for an end-goal.

    “The reason why certain virtues are derided as beta, is because of the disgust they inspire in people, more specifically, women.”

    Except the virtues per se are not what inspires the “disgust.” Women are repulsed by niceness when it appears to be the highest expression of a man’s virtue, i.e., he’s only being nice to me because he can’t be commanding. When the command is established (or even better, presumed by one’s very presence and demeanor), gentleness by policy is an indication of strength. That’s how a bag of Skittles can be better than a Mercedes.

    There are men, and there are gentlemen. The latter term has come into disrepute — and, yes, the source of private disgust — because gentleness went from being a choice to an essence. There is nothing so awesomely powerful as receiving mercy from the man who can obviously crush you. It is a strength (the power to crush) corralled by an even greater strength (the discipline over that power by an act of will).

    “I literally cannot inspire disgust, hate and derision as successfully as I can simply by treating women well. I don’t know why, perhaps it’s a malady of our times, perhaps it’s something else.”

    You “don’t know why,” but I do. It is because you have not first demonstrated your strength to the point of it being presumed. A 6’5″ 275lb linebacker doesn’t have to physically beat-down a 90lb weakling; everyone can already see his capacity in a single glance. It is the same with women. If you are worried your acts of kindness will come off as “white knighting,” you still possess a beta soul whose concealment ultimately fools no one.

    “But being beta is [a] sure fire way to get a woman to hate you, at worst, and at best, will be unappreciated and ignored.”

    I think you mixed up “at best” and “at worst.” If you can get a woman to hate you, you control her because she is passionately (and sometimes involuntarily) invested in you. If she is indifferent, you are a non-entity with no momentum, nothing to build on, treading water. There is a well-documented difference in these PUA circles between hatred and contempt or indifference.

    Regardless, being kind to a woman is not “beta.” It is beta only as a cold opener when you have nothing else to commend to your strength. It is 100% dependent on context. Which is why condemning it as the essence of beta is a confusion of superficial alpha aspirants.

    “I realize there is an inbetween between Peter Pan and supplicating beta, but it strikes me as rather pointless. I can get the exact same thing without having to walk a tightrope and supplicate, without having to play to a script. I can just be selfish and have the same results, completely and totally.”

    It strikes you “as rather pointless” because you are okay with being a mimic/poseur. You “can just be selfish and have the same results” because you are only worried about result and not essence. It doesn’t seem to have occurred to you that result more efficiently follows essence than does the coercion and micromanagement of consequences. You can lead a horse into its stall by the reins, or you can push on its rear-end. Either achieves the same “result” of horse in stall, but one requires much more pointless effort.

    The reason an alpha seeks the balance between Peter Pan and Beta is because peterpanism is just as much of (if not so obvious) a cage as betatude, and an alpha is above all other things, uncaged. An alpha’s goal is not more and greater pussy as far as the eye can see. His goal is to preserve freedom of movement over his entire domain, with vag being only one part of the territory over which he lords, as the “master of all he surveys.”

    Your technique yields short-term results but long-term confusion. There is an art to being a charming rogue, and it’s not by going overboard on the rogue. With enough refinement you can be giving without reeking of supplication, you can be gentle without appearing weak. Yeah, it’s hard to pull off. But that should be your goal. The fact that you’ve preemptively foreclosed that possibility consigns you to a life of mimicry and the bravado habits of a weakling.

    But these are lessons for BMOC upperclassmen. You obviously are still enthralled with the awe of a freshman who has just gained admission to so spectacular a campus of possibility. It would be okay for your rookie purposes, but a fundamental misunderstanding at this point can also prevent you from graduating to the next stage.

    Which may be fine with you. Which may be the best you can do. Some frosh don’t make it past first semester. Others are destined to graduate with honors. You give off the odor of a perpetual sophomore.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    Bleh.

    The manosphere needs more influence from this “higher level of consciousness”. Your comments might not make much sense to someone who is still in the beginning stages but as things are evolving in this community there is going to be an ever increasing demand for this kind of information as more and more men begin to realize that all of their problems with women are only a symptom of the disease.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    There’s nothing wrong with actively gaming women. I don’t enjoy slogging around in the trenches but I like getting pussy as much as the next guy so sometimes it is a necessary evil.

    All I’m saying is that:

    1) Part of the reason why you want to “kill the beta” is because the women you are dealing with (western women) aren’t worthy of that level of affection

    2) There is much less of a need to kill anything when your value precedes you. For a few years I was “that guy”. When you get a taste of it you will understand. It is so powerful that although I had to take a step back when the economy tanked a few years ago, my residual value is still high enough that I have been able to pull some hot young ass without so much as a second thought. It’s a lot easier to avoid getting hung up on one chick when you know there are three more waiting to take her place.

  • Nummm

    Being indifferent and being malicious are completely different things, I am surprised that you conflated the two things. Maliciousness is beating a dog for no reason, indifference is not caring that it flipped it’s water dish. It isn’t a driving force in my philosophy: I have no intention of becoming Sodini 2.0 whatsoever, it (indifference, not maliciousness) is just something I need to incorporate. I need to live my life for myself, and this means indifference towards most other individuals, women included. I’m not going to do it to show people who is boss, I’m going to be indifferent because anything else has such a terrible return on my invest. It’s worse than no return, I am actually punished for that sort of behaviour.

    This isn’t the essence of Alpha, and I reject the whole Alpha/Beta thing. I don’t want to be Alpha, I just want to be happy. If that involves acting “alpha” then I will act alpha, if not, then I won’t. That’s all there is to it, really.

    You say that after command is established, gentleness is an indication of strength, but here’s the rub; what does that matter, when command has already been established. What motivation do I have to be nice at that point? I’m already in charge, I already get what I want. At that point, being nice just becomes supplication. So why would I bother with it?
    If gentleness is a choice, as you say, then I choose against it. I’m sure it is an amazing show of strength to be merciful, but here we run into the same problem. If I am in the position to be merciful, I am in the position to not be merciful as well. Mercy is of obvious benefit for those that it is afforded for, but what does it grant those that give it? Nothing.

    I know what you mean though, about inspiring strength to the point where it is presumed. I was in a relationship for 2 years with a girl. I had done what you suggested, and then I realized that there was no point. I was already the dominant one, she was already in love with me, there was nothing to be gained from me being nice to her, so I stopped. And while she was miserable, it really didn’t matter, I was just as happy and had to put in much less effort. I would do things like ignoring her for days at a time, denying her affection after sex, or blatantly hitting on women in front of her. It made her absolutely even crazier about me, there was literally no downside to it, she was too anxious to complain.

    I think beta is being kind to a woman, kindness is essentially beta. Look at bloggers like Athol Kay, I think they would agree. Women aren’t attracted to beta. If women have to pick between a kind beta, and a cold alpha, then they will always pick the alpha. Now you might say, but, they would ultimately prefer an alpha who is kind to them. This is true, but here’s 2 things. 1: You need to inspire strength, as you said, till it is presumed. You are essentially saying, you need to act alpha to attract a woman, and I agree. But once she’s into you, and having sex with you, there is no point in going further. You already have her! Why put in more work? Why be nice? You’ve already got her 2: Who gives a shit about preference? Pragmatism is key here. Women might prefer an alpha to act beta when she is already involved and invested, but by that point she is already involved and invested, her preferences don’t mean anything at that point, she’s already yours.

    Also, you are right, I am totally OK with being a mimic or a poseur, or any other word you can throw at me. I just don’t fucking care what people think of me, I just want to achieve my definition of success and happiness, and fuck everyone who thinks that means I am X or Y or Z.

    Also, I have to laugh at your assertion that being a Peter Pan is as much of a cage as being a beta. Really? The guy who does whatever he wants, whenever he wants, because he decided to be selfish and never grow up is just as trapped as the guy who works a job he hates so he can bank roll a fat nagging hag that won’t fuck him (except in divorce court)? Really?

    I understand what you’re trying to say, about this whole essence thing, about this whole charming rogue thing. In fact, I accept what you’re trying to say. Someone who is alpha will be more successful than someone who acts alpha, yes, totally agreed. I am doing my best to become as alpha as I can be. However:
    I don’t want to be giving. I want to look like I’m giving, because I do like the whole “charming rogue” archetype. I just don’t actually want to invest myself the same way you think is necessary. The trick is to find a way to mimick it that requires less energy and investment.

    Also, your last 2 paragraphs are just shaming language. You imply I am somehow under-developed, less mature because I don’t agree with you. You can go fuck yourself. I’m sick and tired of all these fucks trying to get me to go along with their ideas by implying they’ve got it all figured out and I’m just some fucking immature dumbass. Odor of a perpetual sophomore? Get the fuck outta here with that shit. I can’t please all of the people all of the time; no matter what decision I make, someone will consider me an immature moron, so why should I listen to you,instead of others? Instead of trying to figure out things for myself? Letting others shame me into my decisions got me into this mess, letting others shame me into new decisions won’t get me out. Oh god, if only I too could graduate from King A university with honors, life would just be swell. Blow it out your ass you frootloop. If only I would just listen to you, all of a sudden, I am mature! And so smart! And clever! No more sophomore odor!
    Look at this bullshit you’re spewing, as if it lends any strength to your arguments. Your arrogance is completely unwarranted.

  • Nummm

    GLC: I Completely agree with you with number one. Statistically speaking, the average woman in her early 20s has a poor past, and few redeeming qualities.

    I’m not sure what you mean with 2, what do you mean by “that guy” ? I’m assuming you mean spinning more plates, and if that’s true, then totally agreed.

  • Nummm

    I read a blog post at rivelinos. He gets across what you wanted, without snark, and in a much more convincing fashion. I’m forced to agree with him. Ignore that last post I made.

  • King A

    Go to it, brother. King A University or School of Hard Knocks. One way you will learn it. You aren’t the first selfish but scared child seeking ways to artificially inflate his arrogance out of fear.

    “Why put in more work? Why be nice?”

    You aren’t supposed to be “nice.” Nice is queer, nice is fey, nice is weak. You are supposed to be good. Sometimes good requires the opposite of “nice.” A man is supposed to make the people and the environment which surrounds him better for his having been in its proximity. That is what you are made for, and any deviation from it will destroy you.

    “Fuck the girl that’s too cold, if I give her my coat, then I’m cold too.” That approach to human interaction may keep you warm on any particular night, but it sabotages your soul. You can’t last long doing anything well with a rotten soul. It’s like topping off your gas tank with sugar water. Your plumbing was not made for radical self-centeredness. Not only will you fail to achieve it, you will ruin yourself on the way.

    And if by some stroke of luck you found yourself in that hoped-for state of total solitude, you will want to kill yourself. Because it is “not good for man to be alone.” Or did you think it was possible to hop from superficial pleasure to superficial pleasure and it would all add up to “happiness”? If you are going to wreck yourself on a fallacy, don’t wreck yourself on one that man discovered to be fallacious somewhere around the same time he was discovering fire.

    “I just don’t fucking care what people think of me, I just want to achieve my definition of success and happiness, and fuck everyone who thinks that means I am X or Y or Z.”

    Like I implied above, if you were smart and prepared enough to create your own “definition of success and happiness” independent of the physical laws surrounding you, you would be smart enough to recognize a patent absurdity when you encountered one. Gravity and blunt-force trauma “don’t fucking care what” your “definition of success” is when you’re trying to leap across a canyon. I define success to be my broken carcass at the bottom of a ravine! Take that, nature!

    “Also, I have to laugh at your assertion that being a Peter Pan is as much of a cage as being a beta. Really?”

    Really.

    “The guy who does whatever he wants, whenever he wants, because he decided to be selfish and never grow up is just as trapped as the guy who works a job he hates so he can bank roll a fat nagging hag that won’t fuck him (except in divorce court)? Really?”

    You’ve defined the summum bonum as the universe allowing Nummm to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. This is a child-man’s understanding of liberty — the freedom of suddenly being without dad’s curfew. You are perhaps not destined to grow out of this petulant brat’s-eye view of the universe, and if you are already much older than 18 or so, and still clinging to this nonsense, I wouldn’t give you good odds of ever being free of that cage.

    After a while these assumptions harden like concrete, and your stubborn refusal to submit yourself to a brutal self-examination now will likely render you unable to do it ever. Not only are you setting yourself up for inevitable failure — no, the world will not stand aside to appease your will, even if you happen to become Stalin or Mao — you are enslaving yourself to your own random urges. “Whatever you want” isn’t always the best guidepost toward smart decisions in life, just as a fat woman’s urge to eat ice cream isn’t going to accrue to her long-term health.

    Another feature of the adolescent argument is turning the big questions of life into insipid either/or choices. Must we either be committed to maximizing of our own selfish desires or be married to a sexless “fat nagging hag”? That’s the whole panoply of options, A or B? This facile binary hardly warrants a response, except to say: there are more than two things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your “parents are gone for the weekend, let’s partayyyy!” philosophy.

    You are running scared from the hypothetical “fat nagging hag.” She is a phantom looming large in your imagination, directing your path of avoidance. You are more committed to her than you know. You see her in every woman you “sleep with, or even fool around with.” You have heard the beta horror stories, you have internalized them without experiencing them, like a child who fears the monster in the closet he has never seen. That’s not gonna be you, no sir!

    Let’s talk in ten years. Let’s see how you’re doing then. Like the virgin who wrecks herself by getting fucked too soon and too often, you are also at the inflection point of a decision that will determine the trajectory of your life. It doesn’t surprise me — and still less does it bother me — that you will throw your life at the false promise of a false idol. Boys are confused these days, they have no idea what it means to be a man, they will swallow whole whatever snake-oil tastes like truth on their tongues.

    Examine your premises some more. Or don’t. But, men, look here. Look at Nummm. Here are the true wages of bastardy. A generation without fathers has to fabricate its own ideas of manliness from disparate sources. They have no experience encountering, and therefore no earthly idea how to become, a strong man who is also a good man. They think those virtues stand opposed because they’ve only ever seen them excluding each other within the fops and fags and cads around them, whom they must use as role models.

    Read literature. Read history. The world was not invented in America fifty years ago.

  • Good Luck Chuck

    “That guy” meaning the guy who has relatively high social status. When you see things through the lens of a TRUE high value male it changes your perspective.

  • King A

    Blogging is like jerking off on a web cam. How these guys can mentally masturbate into the ether, consistently, and for years after years … it baffles me. I’m already tired of saying the same stuff over and over. The idea of saving wave after wave of incipient d-bags like Numm (above) from themselves makes me queasy. Get down with your bad self. The fuck do I care? I’m a tough-love kind of dude who believes that gravity is the best teacher. Godspeed, coolguy.

    There is a huge difference between a lecturer and a mentor. I had the opportunity to make a living as the former (and rejected it), and only found satisfaction with the latter: one-on-one rather than in front of a hall of freshmen. I am a conversationalist, a rhetorician, a dialectician. There has to be give and take. Visible progress. Socratic thesis and synthesis. I would be part of a gang blog. The monotone of even the best solo blogs tends to grate and bore before long.

    I agree that a paradigm shift must be forced, but I’m not sure blogging is the way to precipitate the change. One indication it’s not my medium: hearing the word “manosphere” makes me want to punch a baby in the neck.

  • Thumpy

    When I was a kid I had crushes, and sometimes now in my mid-30s I have minor crushes on women who are waaaaay out of my league. But rarely, and they’re always tempered with an ability to walk away.

    I think what the blogger describes is something that merely needs to be “grown out” of. I guess some guys never grow out of it. Most women I bone I don’t really get very attached to. Out of every 5-6 there may be one who’s interesting enough to have a LTR with. That’s fine with me. And those women I do love, though not so much that I act like a chump around them.

    There are two women in my life I love, and another two I screw on occasion.

    But if you’re falling for every single chick you screw, you’re either not screwing enough chicks or you have a screw loose :D

  • Sasha

    Word – this post and the one above. You succinctly presented stated objective and backword rationalization of the mainstream PUA movement. Rollo also seems to have preference (or is it just a habit?) for anxiety-fueled sex, so his prescription to “kill beta” isn’t surprising.

    My best advice to the correspondent would be to be EXTREMELY discerning in which women who chooses to be intimate with – even on the level of “fooling around” given his energetic-emotional sensitivies. Instead of killing mythical “beta” of bonding, develop real “alpha” of discernment.

  • Tommy

    >Oh, also, yes, making a radical shift in personality was difficult, but the biggest issue was so many “friends” that I had that tried to put me back in my place. It is amazing the resistance you will get from people when you try to move from snivelling beta.

    Interesting. I’d like to hear more about this. I am thinking of doing the same thing.

  • substructure

    “I don’t consider myself a motivational speaker”

    well you should because youre pretty damn good at it :)

  • 16 Years On «

    [...] your own detriment (she’ll end up with half after the divorce) if you don’t ultimately kill the inner AFC and fearlessly embrace the postiveness of your own [...]

  • Year One «

    [...] Kill the Beta [...]

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    [...] day for dinners, walks, coffee, etc. But I never kissed her or even held her hand. I was a solid Beta back then. I thought that relationships were meant to develop very slowly. We kept in touch through [...]

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    [...] Breaking beta – http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/kill-the-beta-2/ [...]

  • Casualties «

    [...] couldn’t kill the beta (if he was even aware of it), so he killed [...]

  • necorochi

    ” As sadistic as it sounds, you’ll be more consistently rewarded for your capacity to indirectly offend the women you want to get with, and the internal conflict this creates between the beta you and the burgeoning alpha you is the hardest part to reconcile. This is where most guys fail in transitioning, and this is primarily due to an unpracticed ability to keep their emotions in check.”

    Hit the bulls-eye.

    “However, when we’re taught, and we practice, not hitting the brakes and not turning into the skid, often enough we make this our default reaction and we find that the car rights itself, we avoid disaster and continue safely on down the road.”

    Or we can counter steer, milk the gas and TOKYO DRIFT THAT BAD BOY!

  • Gruesome

    LOL!

    The higher order way of King A is too far out from shore for some wannabe PUAlphartists.

    Three books for Numm:

    (1) How I Found Freedom In An Unfree World by Harry Browne
    (2) Walden by Henry David Thoreau
    (3) A Guide To The Good Life by William B Irvine

    “In here, King A is the fucking king!” said Pep Guardiola.

  • Mister Softee «

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    [...] Not so in this age. At every instance boys and men are conditioned to think that emotional expression is a means to solving problems. Boys don’t cry, was instituted with a purpose. Unguarded easily expressed emotion is a feminine trait. It’s not that men should become social robots, deadened to all but the most intense emotion; it’s just become normalized to cheapen that expression by overuse. Displays of a Man’s emotions should be rarely given devine gifts for women who are generally lacking in true appreciation as it is. [källa] [...]

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  • Mac

    The only way to kill the beta is to be burned enough by a woman and see all of the traits that are mentioned here. Your problem is that inside you still wanna believe in beta love, and it simply ain’t true. To kill the beta, you have to strike at the heart!

  • Steve

    This is how I see it…….the beta is just the guy that seeks his value, worth, approval, etc from outside himself, through the trophy girl, job, or whatever he thinks is going to finally make him feel like a man. That’s why even the Pua master’s r betas, they’re still getting their sense of pride through who they can fuck, hence still giving their power to woman. I’ve been on both sides of the fence, ironically backwards. I was always called a boss and was looked at as the alpha, and then went deep beta. The alpha is so simple, the thing every “type” of alpha has in common is they get their approval from themselves. They can be an ass and just not care about anybody but themselves, they’ll still be alpha in the sense of scoring, but not happy. The other route is to respect yourself above all, do what you want when you want. Challenge yourself for your sake alone. Happiness is not out there somewhere, only ego approval happiness. And you can’t be happy with yourself when you’re not overcoming fears and growing. We get mad at women for how they are, when we should be mad at ourselves for being whipped and valuing anything or anybody above ourselves

  • JackBlack23

    I remember initially reading this post back in the fall of 2012 but I would have to say that I only truly managed to “kill the beta” by early 2014 … I’m not sure if you’ve done a specific post on this Rollo, but it seems to me that the more time one has spent in the Matrix, the longer it takes to fully swallow and internalize the Red Pill …

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  • dan

    On the binary being “cold” or emotional: just check what your natural response is in situations of emotional confrontation with women.

    Do you want to take their discomfort away or are you sure enough of yourself of who you are and what you believe in and stay “cold”?

    If you feel emotionally shaken or unstable because of such a confrontation, do you look out for salvation from that female?

    Then you are doomed. That for me is the key message of the blog.

    Just imagine you have a fall out with a guy, would you ever seek his emotional patch up for reconciliation? No (unless it is a well vested relationship and then of course you would be safeguarding your own self-worth).

    It is easy and emotionally safer to submit, in the short run. But that is kneeling and in that context as Beta as possible.

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